Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320 | Forensic Files

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called off the Record and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a few
beers let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] basically we have identified the bodies
of the two uh females that were found out yesterday or yes yesterday uh the bodies are of uh have been positive
identified as Abigail J Williams 13 of the Delphi area and Liberty Rose Lynn German 14 of the
Delphi area the two girls were reported missing on Monday February 13th the bodies were
discovered about 12 15 on the 14th in the woods just east of town here my volunteers had helped in the search of
the children after they were reported missing to the Carroll County Sheriff's Department
family has been notified this is considered a double homicide investigation no further information
will be released at this time we have we have nobody in in custody at this time uh so as far as I'm concerned yes there
is somebody out there that did this for Indus crime and uh we're going to track them down it is disturbing it is
concerning his sheriff in my position and uh I I you know I want to I guess assure
the community is is Trooper Reilly indicated we're getting into the bottom of this we feel confident and uh you
know we're gonna we're gonna do everything we can within our resources to reach Justice in this
situation [Music] foreign [Music] this is Delphi Indiana and our case starts on the afternoon of February 13
2017. at about 1 40 in the afternoon 13 year old Abby Williams and 14 year old Libby German were dropped off by Libby's
older sister Kelsey the drop-off location is at a Trailhead on County Road 300 North this is near the scenic
monin High Bridge which is an abandoned railroad bridge that goes over Deer Creek in Carroll County Indiana
okay I'm going to try to get as detailed on this portion of our timeline as I can
so before the girls left to go to the bridge and the trails Libby asked her older sister Kelsey several times if she
could drive them out there to which Kelsey said no several times before basically giving in and saying yes now
Liberty had already secured permission from her grandmother Becky to go to the bridge
the idea was Becky said yes you and Abby can go to the bridge if you can get a ride there and if you can get a ride
back so the plan was for Kelsey to drop the two girls off and then around 3 30 p.m Libby's father Derek would pick both
of them up this 330 marker is just a general time as Derek said he would call Libby when he was close to the pickup
location so Kelsey drops off the girls and then calls her boyfriend to tell him that she
is in route to go hang out with him Kelsey was going to go hang out with him and then go off to work
while walking on the trail Libby posts a photo to Snapchat this is the now famous
207 p.m Snapchat photo showing Abby crossing the monin High Bridge at 3 11 pm Derek calls Libby's phone
Libby does not answer at 3 13 Derek makes another call Derek says both of these calls go to voicemail
but after ringing so Libby's phone rings and then the calls go to voicemail eventually and I've seen it reported
this might have been as early as 3 30 PM calls to Libby's phone start going directly to voicemail
when the second call goes to voicemail Derek Parks the car so now he is parked in a location where he can pick up the
girls this is the same general location where the two girls were originally dropped off there claims that once he
Parks the car he gets out of his car immediately yeah he parked at the trailhead and he walks the trail within
minutes of parking the vehicle and starting off on the trail on foot he comes to an intersecting path he says
it's here where he sees as he has described an older man with a plaid or flannel shirt on he asked this man if he
has seen two girls to which the man responds no but I saw a couple on the bridge
these Trails out there are numbered the intersecting trails are the 501 Trail in
the 505 Trail yeah Derek is going to walk down the 505 Trail to look for the girls now forgive me everyone as I've
only seen this on maps but it appears to me that the 501 Trail is the more heavily traveled Trail it appears to be
like the main trail there Derek takes the other Trail the 505 which dead ends at Deer Creek he does not find the girls
and he does not see anyone else so he turns around and he heads back the way he came
walking all the way back to his vehicle once he is near his vehicle he calls Becky Patty Becky is Libby's grandmother
Derek is telling her hey I'm here Libby is not picking up the phone the girls are not here this this phone call takes
place at 3 30 pm after the call Derek is going to walk the 501 path so he gets there he's
calling nobody's answering he walks down a path the less lesser traveled path gets back to the car still nothing now
he's gonna go walk the main path but at this point there has to be some level of
concern oh yeah yeah so much so that he's already called Becky the grandmother right so let's give a
general description of this path which I think is very important for those that have not seen this on a map all right
from where he is parked the general description is this starting from where he parked he walks a short distance on a
short Trail once there he is standing at the 501 Trail which is a Long Trail it's
the more traveled Trail it's also called the monin High Bridge Trail because if you are standing right there at the
intersecting Trails Trail 501 or the monin High Bridge Trail to the Northwest goes all the way to the freedom Bridge
which is a beautiful pedestrian bridge that extends over Highway 25 better known as the Hoosier Heartland Highway
or Triple H for wrestling fans to the Northwest is this beautiful Freedom Bridge right to the southeast is the
moanin High Bridge so Derek goes up to the freedom bridge to see if the girls are up there he does not see them then
again he turns around by the time he gets back to the intersecting Trails this is when members
of Libby's family start to arrive to help in the search remember we said Kelsey was going to work well she got a
call from Becky the grandmother who is alerting the family that Libby is missing so instead of going to work
Kelsey returns to help as well just real quick just to recap because a lot of things are happening here the
girls were dropped off at approximately 1 40 p.m I've seen this time as early as
1 35 p.m and as late as 1 45 p.m yeah the Snapchat photo is at 207 PM so we know they are alive and well at 207.
then not even an hour and a half later less than 90 minutes later Derek is there at 3 15 looking for them at 3 30
Becky is notified and by 4 pm less than 2 hours after the Snapchat photo multiple
members of Libby's family are there at the trails and looking for the girls between 3 30 and 4pm her family
continues to try to call her some leaving voicemails and some texting as well at about 4 20 p.m Kelsey along with Cody
Cody is Libby's uncle Kelsey and Cody set out down the trail and they go in the direction of the
monin High Bridge and they actually cross the bridge when they get to the other side of the bridge
they went to a couple of the homes in the area knocking on doors to inquire about Libby and Abby according to Kelsey
and Cody they only speak to one person and of course that person had not seen the girls
Mike Patty is Libby's grandfather just a quick background for those who are less
familiar with the case Libby and her older sister Kelsey were raised by their grandparents Mike and Becky
Derek is their father both their father and mother are involved in their lives but the mother lives all the way or
lived at the time about four hours away in Kentucky Mike Patty Libby's grandfather arrives on the scene this is
right around 5 p.m now there's a residence very near the trailhead parking area Mike goes to this home he
knows these people there at the home while there he calls a friend of his who is a police officer
then Mike goes back to the trails this is around 5 20 P.M at 5 30 p.m Libby's family calls and notifies the police a
huge search gets underway but is called off once it gets too dark in a news release Carroll County Sheriff
Toby Lazenby says there's no reason to suspect Foul Play or believe the girls are in immediate danger one based off of
video footage and photos that I've seen of this area this would be difficult I think to search at night actually I'd
actually think parts of it would actually be dangerous to search at night there's steep hills there and there's
also I mean that bridge that monan high bridge is dangerous in itself right it's
an abandoned railroad bridge anybody that walks across it and many people have it was a popular place to go before
this incident but even after people have filmed themselves or taken pictures of themselves on this bridge and you see
everybody looking down as they walk it it's a 70 foot drop 70 or 75 foot drop if you fall off that bridge and anybody
that's ever walked on an abandoned railroad bridge knows that that sometimes they're missing steps and
even all the steps that are there there's a distance between them where you could you could twist an ankle you
could easily lose your footing right and on top of that too I've seen pictures of this area both in
the summer fall winter and even in the month of February even with all the leaves off of the
trees this is an area that's heavily wooded in in a lot of parts and tough to see things at any distance at all even
when the the leaves are off of the trees right so they call off the search they're they're trying to be hopeful but
I'd be a little concerned that if they're out there somewhere in the park that this is not the best area for them
to be in especially after dark right and you have the highway that's right by there the the
um Indiana Highway number 25 which we've discussed that on other cases too you don't want to disappear or go missing
right around a highway but that also probably leads to some kind of discussion on several levels these are young
teenage girls it's it's they've only been missing for a few hours uh probably let's say five six hours by the time
they call off the search right you're probably having the discussion with her caretakers with with the parents and
caretakers of these two young girls that they might have they might be off partying with somebody or they might be
out you know doing something right they could have been dropped us off at the park we're gonna meet up with somebody
that they just didn't tell their Guardians about so they're not going to start searching until the next morning
which would be February 14 2017. yeah the search continues for the girls and there are several of these
teams of Searchers out there they you can find on YouTube and any of the people that were local remember that
they were calling that morning they were out on TV broadcasting and saying anybody that is available today please
come out and help us search this area for these two girls but unfortunately just after around 12 o'clock noon
one of the teams finds two bodies and this is about a half a mile away from the bridge from the Moon and high bridge
so if you're looking at a map of the area and based off of later evidence the girls were abducted after 207 PM we
know that from the the Snapchat photo and they would have been abducted after 207 pm at the southeast side of the
bridge this is where they were likely ordered by the abductor to go down the hill
they would have went down the hill and then across a long private driveway now this is not
keep in mind this is not the suburbs so when we say driveway it's not what anybody's picturing this driveway looks
like a long gravel and dirt road and at this approximate location you can't really see any houses there's
not houses or like other roads visible at this location so as soon as they they go across this dirt road gravel road
Private driveway whatever you want to call it they would have then went down yet
another Hill and this one is steeper than the last this would put them right at the edge of Deer Creek
the bodies were found on the opposite side of this Creek about 50 feet from the North Bank
of Deer Creek police have not publicly stated how the girls were murdered and law enforcement
secured a large area of this North Bank of the creek with crime scene tape as well as some of the areas from that
Southeast side of the bridge working your way down to the creek side we do not know if the girls were ordered
to cross the creek at the shallow point there or if they tried to make a run for
it or if in fact they may have been killed and then carried across the creek to try
to conceal the bodies further we we don't know that but we know that they were found across the creek is there any
way to get across the creek some other way like by driving down a path or I say that they crossed
at this shallow point because that would be what would make the most sense from from where they were found
um right if you were to cross the creek there's there's that one shallow point right there and it's near that North
Bank area where they were were found and I don't believe that police have actually disclosed whether or not their
clothing was wet with the creek water well that's that's the difficult thing here in this case and that's why we're
going to go through it in this manner because when we originally covered it was very early in the case and there was
little to known facts about the case there was a lot of speculation there was even speculation at that time
that they were found in the creek and we can piece together words of of law enforcement and detectives since then to
know that that's not true they were found on dry ground about 50 feet from the creek side regarding the wet
clothing we don't know if their clothing was found at all right for starters and
factoring in the the distance of time the time that has elapsed from when it's believed that they were abducted and
likely killed to when they were found I can't say I can't say if their clothes would have been still wet at that time
what I can say what you're saying does so we're clear you're not saying that they were found
nude I don't know we don't we don't know but that's why I'm saying is the way you
made it sound was like we don't know if their clothes were even found right right you asked about wet clothes and
I'm saying we just don't know because we don't we don't even have anybody to tell
us if the clothes clothing was on them was found was was never there whatever but
what I'm going to guess here and say is that and I'm basing this simply off of just what the police did in fact rope
off with with the large area on that North Bank Creekside with crime scene tape I'm completely guessing here
Captain but it it would seem more likely to me that they were they were probably
killed on the side of the creek in which they were found again I don't know if that means that
they were ordered to cross the creek or if they tried to make a run for it now on the 15th on February 15th autopsies
were conducted on the bodies that afternoon Indiana State Police in the Carroll County Sheriff's Department held
a press conference and they did confirm that they found Liberty and Abigail Libby and Abby the girls were murdered
and again they did not state how they were killed Indiana State Police also released a photo of a man reportedly
seen on the trail around the time the girls disappeared the image shows a white male with his hands in his pockets
while walking on the bridge he's wearing jeans and a navy blue jacket and a hat well
the the hat is still an argument but a lot of the news pressers that came out around this time describe him as wearing
a hat it's very pixelated police this is the other tricky thing here right from the get-go so police do
not call the man a suspect but say that they would like to talk with him we've seen this
tactic in other cases sometimes that person is actually considered a suspect by law enforcement
but by releasing it in this manner right not calling him a suspect and just saying we would like to talk with him
there have been cases where that individual has come forward to try to explain away why they are in the area at
that time because hi you looking for me yeah now also uh law enforcement does not say where
the photo came from or how they obtained the photo now I remember thinking and and I don't think this was stated
anywhere by and I know it wasn't stated by law enforcement but I'm sure others may have been thinking the same thing
that I thought maybe this photo this it was a still image may have just been captured from some type of trail camera
right but we're gonna soon learn that this actually was taken by Libby on her phone
[Music] [Music] all right we're back cheers cheers to you captain on February 22nd 2017 there is another
news conference this is the now famous news conference where police reveal that one of the victims Libby recorded video
and audio of the suspect on her cell phone the audio recording is released to the public it's a man's voice saying
down the hill this audio triggered more than a thousand tips we Captain you and I like
so many others offered our speculation on not only the photo but the audio when we first covered this case back in May
of 2017 and episodes 110 and 111. yeah those are free to listen to on the Stitcher app
and a lot of the speculation that was involved between you and I and like I said others on their TV shows their
podcast in newspaper articles everywhere was how much more does police have what
more was recovered from Libby's phone and we also question things like you know the the voice sounds muffled is
that because the the phone was concealed in her pocket and how did they obtain this information
that was on her phone was her phone in fact found I believe now I you know at the time I
thought maybe they pulled this stuff from the the cloud possibly I've changed my opinion on that I'm
starting to think that they probably found her phone and it was just a I think the killer was in a rush to get
out of there and may have not known that his image and his voice was captured on
her phone yeah or was unaware that she had a phone I mean there's any any number of reasons
out there but again I'm just simply guessing on that but I wanted to mention that I've changed my thoughts and
feelings on that I think very likely that they found her phone now by March 1st the reward money for information in the
case grew to two hundred thousand dollars eight days later Mike Patty Libby's grandfather who some on the internet
were saying looked like the suspect or the bridge guy speaks out publicly for the first time
at the Carroll County Courthouse personally I don't think Mike looks anything like what I think I'm seeing in
the photo of the bridge guy and I say what I think that I'm seeing because as you've pointed out it's a picture
pixelated grainy photo right it's taken some distance away the man on the bridge the
bridge guy is some distance away from Libby when she took this video footage and what's released to the public
there's hot debate and has been for almost two years well for over two years about what we are seeing and what this
individual looks like but again personally I don't think nor have I ever thought that that Mike Patty looks
anything like what we are seeing in that photo and then later the video footage right but you have two
children dead we have no evidence of the grandfather being there around two o'clock let's say
and you would think that with this information he might not have known let's just say hypothetically
it was him he wouldn't have known that he was having his picture taken by her you would think that somebody in the
family would come forward and say that looks like him yeah and there's nobody coming forward
and doing that and and I think they probably agree with me that it doesn't that they don't think it looks like M1 I
don't think it looks like him body type I don't think it looks like his face I don't think it looks like his
his facial features his hair his nothing like there's there's none of it that other than it being a white guy right I
don't see any other any other possible connection plus we know that Mike Patty has an alibi for that time period he he
very likely when you really tear through this timeline and some of the phone calls that were going on right
I find it very likely that Mike Patty would have been unaware that the girls were even there until they were until
people were worried right until they said hey they're missing and and I think that's what's so difficult in this case
is it seems like there's a lot of grabbing at straws I mean the first thing that I'd want to know
investigating this case is one we don't know if this bridge guy is connected or not we're not law enforcement so we
don't know the extent of information that that phone captured do we have minutes of audio footage do we have
minutes of video footage we don't know we're not law enforcement and my but my first thing when looking at this case is
who was supposed to drop her off where were they at what's their Alibi after that then it
becomes who was supposed to pick them up where's his location based off maybe cell phone pings you know does the does
the father get there earlier than he says he did uh you know where where was he at what's his alibi what would his
motive be this is where I would start but you see quickly in this case people jumping to that looks like the grandpa
and and having really no evidence to connect connect that at all well and that's what this case will has been and
will continue to be and this is not a standalone incident we've seen this in other cases where they release a
composite sketch drawing of the person last seen with somebody or a potential suspect right and you get a flood of
people calling in and the tip is not a great tip it's just a tip of I know somebody that looks like that or I was
driving on the on the uh this such and such Road on Main Street and I passed a car and the guy in the car looked
exactly like that dude like that picture like that drawing but what we will learn
is that we will eventually learn just to clear anything up here that the the image
captured on Libby's phone it is it is announced later that that is the killer of of the two girls so that is the
person that we are looking for the debate is what are we seeing what does he actually look like because it's a
grainy again it's a grainy picture and he he's walking with his face down and he's not walking with his face down
to try to conceal himself from her her camera phone I don't think he even knew that he was being videotaped
he's looking down because he's making sure that he doesn't lose his footing on that bridge right and fall 70 feet just
like everybody else if if this guy felt that he needed to conceal his face from from these two girls he would have
put on a mask or he would have put something on he would have done that in a different manner other than just
simply looking down as he's walking toward them and I want to go ahead and throw this out there too
you can tell that he's hurriedly he's he's in a hurry walking towards them so even more important that he's paying
attention to the placement of his feet as he makes his way across the bridge um what we're going to see here though this
whole thing that I'm pointing out here with Mike Patty with the grandfather he's making this this very personalized
statement this very heartfelt statement at the County Courthouse but I'm pointing this out because on the
internet people were saying that he looked like the suspect or some people thought he looked like the suspect this
is really just the start of the online suspects that we will see in this case and it quickly continued because on
March 17th the Indiana State Police the FBI and Carroll County sheriff's deputies serve a search warrant this is
at the home of Ron Logan Ron Logan owns the 30-acre property where Abby and Libby were found yeah
the popular TV show Inside Edition speaks to this man in his interview he says he was buying
tropical fish at the time of the murders Ron Logan is later arrested and sentenced to two years for operating a
vehicle this is after he was illegally operating a vehicle this is after being a habitual traffic offender
he is accused of driving to the county dump on the same day that the girls vanished to be 100 percent clear
he has not been charged in regards to the murders although he's certainly been same kind of scenario a lot of people
saw his interview and went that looks like the guy right and it's his property so and there's some debate on how
Cooperative he has been with police right I've seen people that have said Ron has been gone out of his way to do
everything he can to make sure that they know what he was up to that he was not involved and then I've heard other other
arguments that have said just that complete counter of that that he has not been very forthcoming
yeah a lot of people actually speculate that here's this lesser charge that we can charge him with and therefore maybe
he would then say something because I remember at the time once they arrested him it's like okay well here's this guy
that claims he was somewhere where he wasn't um you know then they've you know why is
he at the dump the day that these these girls are found yeah none of this is sounding good yeah that doesn't sound
good what what is he disposing of because yes you you find these bodies but again
we don't know if they were clothed or not clothed and then on top of that what did he use for these murders and did he
go to the dump and dump those so a lot of people speculated early that this was a tactic to get him behind bars get him
thinking about what happened get him away from everybody and therefore he would then come forward and maybe could
possibly confess to this the other thing though too is you know we talk about what does not sound good for for Ron
what does look good to me is I don't think that he looked like the bridge guy I think Ron looks considerably older
than what I think I'm seeing in that picture and he I don't think he matches the description not only does he look
older he looks a little bit he looks taller to me than than what we believe we are looking for and then in July of
2017 after everyone was waiting and waiting for the other shoe to drop for some kind of new information on the case
the Indiana State Police released a sketch of the murder suspect the person depicted in the composite sketch is
described as a white male between five foot six inches tall to five foot ten inches tall weighing 180 to 220 pounds
with reddish brown hair and eye color unknown right so this would go against Logan
yeah because of the hair color one also the the drawing looks a lot younger than
than Logan looks yeah and this is the this part of the story can get a little confusing for people not so familiar
with the case because there are eventually two sketches released this is the first one and you I guarantee that
people have seen this this is the one with the the flapjack hat on in the little kind of thin goatee hair sticking
out on the sides around the ears and the individual wearing a hoodie well in the
picture that they released to the public it's very pixelated so then one would have to start assuming that they had
some other angle uh some other picture that they found on Libby's phone and and that's how they
were getting this drawing well that's that's interesting that's always been another hotly debated item
so it's rumored and then later stated on the Dr Phil show that that that this sketch was the product of more than one
eyewitness who saw this man on the trails so going off of that statement it seems like this sketch is not compiled
based off what they think they were seeing on her phone or on that footage but based off of more than one
eyewitness who saw or claims to have seen this man on the trails the the day that the girls were killed now for some
speculation on this several people have put together and compiled some good info
on this case these people seem to believe that given the timing of the known facts and of the
persons on the trails that day and Libby's family they're searching for her just shortly after the abduction
for there to be more than one eyewitness of this man many believe he must have been spotted
both before and after the murders some have made a strong case that the man wearing the plaid or flannel shirt that
interacted with Derek on the trail intersection before 3 30 PM people have pointed out that he must be or very
likely could be one of the persons to have seen the suspect and given that timeline he likely saw the suspect after
the murders when the suspect was trying to leave the area this is interesting on several levels if
in fact that it if it's true one because it has never been publicly released where the public where the suspect was
spotted and by who and even though there are several theories out there we don't know what
route or exactly where the suspect left the area from right from law enforcement statements it's
believed at least one witness is a man and at least one witness to the suspect was a female and I say that because in
one of the pressers when giving answers one of the officers says she in in response to this composite sketch
so I would argue or just speculate that these eyewitness accounts are before pre-murder
because where they're found and and the area that they're found is is it's off the trail and to then backtrack and to
get back onto the trail to leave um my gut is telling me that that's not how it happened
that's possible but we don't know where this where this monster parked his vehicle right and it may if he had a
vehicle there at all it may not have been out of design it may have been a had to have been out of necessity to
make his way back and backtrack through the trails correct he could have also avoided the main trail
for a large portion of whatever part that he had to walk back to his vehicle you know tromping through the woods as
much as he could until he had to get back onto the trail and and if he if he had to get back on the trail I would say
that would be more likely we cannot say for certain that the man in the plaid or
flannel shirt was one of the people that claims to have seen the suspect that that was provided details to come up
with this sketch but I'm guessing based off of that and this individual has talked with with
police pretty extensively if regarding his timeline flannel shirt man plaid shirt man's timeline right
If he if he tells police I did not arrive until to the park or Trail area until this time that might be why the
speculation is that maybe he did in fact see this suspect after the murders because we now what's so interesting
about this timeline to me and what we did not know when we first covered this case is the the window
in which the the murders very likely occurred is so much shorter than what we originally thought right
we're talking about it's so very likely that this this all went down between about 215
and and maybe three o'clock right it seems to be generally believed or or theorized that the killer had already
made his way out of that general area by the time or shortly after Derek Libby's
father arrived and looking for her and I think you can base that that thought off of his interaction with the
flannel shirt man right all right sorry I went down I went down a long road there but thank you for for joining
me on it there well I also want to bring up the fact that based on it's speculated because they're not
telling us how they died how they were killed right but from some uh the rumors out there
that you would think that this guy would have some kind of blood on him there would be some kind of blood evidence and
so that's why like I said whether you're leaving from a different way that you came in because you could backtrack
somewhere or like you said and I agree with you staying off the path as long as you can
because you have this evidence on you that something bad happened and and so so I think that
again they have all this information they're only releasing bits and pieces so we can
only speculate on some of these things you know what I do want to point out real quick while we're on that topic
before before the thought leaves my tiny little brain here there is one YouTuber
who's done well there's several YouTubers that have done a lot of work on this case some of it good some of it
bad just that's my warning if you choose to go down that path don't say that Nick
don't say that the colonel and the captain sent you go in there swim at your own risk some of it is good info
and some of it is absolutely painful and terrible to watch yeah but that good stuff right but at the end of the day
there's two murdered kids and I think that's why the community has the community of true crimers have kind of
got behind this case and and try to do everything they can to put the word out there and sometimes people get fixated
in their ideas and fixated on you know it has to be this Logan guy or has to be the father or has to be the grandfather
they just get fixated but at the end of the day I think they don't mean harm by that I think they're really trying to
bring attention to the case well this is one thing that I found super interesting
that this this guy did and I can't remember his first name last name Greenough Greenough has done a lot of YouTube work
on this case and one thing that he did that I found incredibly interesting was he had a a man where about the same
color of jeans because that's one thing you can't dispute that's not up for debate we know we can look at that
picture and see what color those genes are that the guy was wearing and so he had somebody wear the same
color of jeans and remember what we do know is this the killer the bridge guy would have had to cross that Creek at
some point and it would either be because he ordered the girls across the creek and killed him there or he
transported the bodies there or he or he chased after them because they tried to
make a run for it right so those are two known facts and this is what I think is
brilliant anybody anytime anybody can take some known facts and then do a little experimentation with them yeah
fantastic work so so a big kudos to Greeno there but what he did was he had a man wear the same color of jeans and
then walk across that Creek at that shallow area and then very shortly afterwards he videotaped the guy's jeans
which sounds silly but what he's pointing out is and it was very clear on on the from his footage
if this man if the bridge guy were walking and later spotted by somebody it's very likely that nobody would say I
saw a man wearing wet jeans walking on the trail the way the color of those jeans when he filmed them after the guy
walked across the the water there right did not appear to look wet to me which I've I found fascinating because that
was one thing that I always wondered about once we learned more of the area of where in fact they were found I kept
going well why wouldn't out of these Witnesses and out of these people that were at the bridge and at the trails
those days that day and then all these people from Libby's family there shortly afterwards looking for her
it would have been so easy for police to get a tip that oh I saw a guy that looked exactly like this and what was so
odd about him was he was soaking wet but we don't have that tip right and again we don't know
you would think maybe you would see more of that if if the perpetrator chased after them and had to run through the
water but again if it's one of those things where it's the the crime happened on one
side and then the murderer transported their bodies over you could roll up your jeans or whatever
but basically what what your stating which I think is very intelligent is the idea of even if they walk through the
water you might not have seen um this might not have stuck out to you no because all it looks like is a darker
pair of blue jeans it doesn't look like like they're soaking wet it just looks like a darker color a darker shade of
blue and here's the other thing too regarding Mike Patty and the um the property owner
Logan Ron Logan look I understand people have their suspicions but I want to throw this out
there just so we can all try to get on the same page this is not some fumbling and bumbling
investigation this is the state police this is the FBI this is the sheriff's department this is as many agencies as
you can possibly think of working together putting all their resources into solving this case yeah keyword
FBI if the if the bridge guy was somebody so close and Social Circle to one of the victims
such as Mike Patty or somebody so close in proximity as to Ron Logan to where the bodies were found on his property
it's been over two years this thing would have been solved by now now nobody's out there standing on a hill
saying I'm going to die on this hill and argue this to death that these two were
not involved nobody's doing that so there's still public speculation and suspicion out there I'm saying
that I believe if somebody was so close either in proximity or relationship to the girls that committed this crime that
was was in fact Bridge Guy the killer this thing would have been solved by now it seems
so far-fetched that that that that would be the result when this thing does finally get solved because it will
so let's continue on with some some other suspects here Captain well I I just want to say I I agree with you
mostly but again we don't know what evidence they have and what evidence they don't have and so
um but what we do know is that they haven't come out publicly and said that Logan is not involved they haven't come
out publicly and stated that that they cleared everybody in the family or cleared people in close circles so that
has to remain on the table and I think especially the family members are normally understanding of that
you take any case like where a wife is murdered and they heavily investigate the husband most the time if if the
husband is innocent he's saying that's fine keep looking at me keep keep investigating me if you want you're
going to get to a dead end at some point so I think that you have to keep those on the table
because again we don't know exactly what they have and what they don't well this is where for some the levy
broke and this is on September 17 2017 when authorities in Colorado arrested a man named Daniel Nations for having
expired Indiana license plates police say he could be linked to the murders and call him a person of interest in the
Delphi case Daniel Nations is a sex offender from the state of Indiana and he was homeless at the time of the
murder so nailing down his whereabouts is difficult to say the least nation's wife says
he resembles the police sketch of the suspect but did not own the clothing scene in the photo in fact she told The
Gazette newspaper quote I can't tell if that is him or not but the one thing I'm
not going to buckle on he did not have that jacket So Daniel Nations was arrested during
the Tim Watkins murder investigation this murder took place in the state of Colorado to be clear
he was arrested during this investigation but he was not been charged in the murder of Tim Watkins
even though there are some who suspect Nations could possibly have killed Tim right because he was seen and reported
to be threatening people with a hatchet on the trails out there but Tim Watkins was killed with a gun
and authorities have been unable to link Nations to a gun and the murder of Tim Watkins well here's what happened in the
public eye though you hear here's this guy that was arrested he was on these Trails he was threatening people with a
hatchet and you go and he's from Indiana and I believe he had a probation hearing
or some kind of hearing that he was supposed to show up to it was he's supposed to check in regularly because
he's a sex offender right he's like supposed he's got a parole officer and all that jazz and he's got to show up
and say hey I'm here I'm still I'm still working at my job I'm keeping my nose clean I'm not doing anything weird but
it was like he didn't show up yeah but it was like the week after the murders it was like some weird
timing where it's like so not only um do the you know not only do we not know his whereabouts when he was in
Indiana but hear these murders take place and you take off and the next time next time we
see you you're in Colorado threatening people with that acting like a complete nut job and if you see his picture and
you see the first drawing of the suspect you go I can see that and then that was
it they they were saying that they were transporting him back to Indiana and then we just kind of sat around for a
while just wondering what was happening yeah we talked about who I think does not look like the sketch or the bridge
guy of what I think I'm seeing in the in the picture there yeah if you put Mike Patty Ron Logan and
Daniel nations in a lineup and said Nick which one of these looks like the bridge
guy I'm saying Daniel Nations please step forward here he looks to me much more like potential Bridge guys than the
other two yeah same hair color as described as well same weird face but he he claims his Alibi is that he was
tagging along with his wife for a doctor's visit that day two which later she says I believe he was with me but I
can't I can't prove 100 that he was in fact with me that that day now keep in mind she's being asked this
you know six months later right seven months later um we covered Tim Watkins case if
anybody's interested in checking that out earlier this year in March this is episodes 284 and 285 and we also covered
the Daniel Nations portion of that case in depth in those episodes on February 14 2018
one year after the double homicides of Libby and Abby authorities say Daniel Nations is not a suspect saying quote we
went out to Colorado and we spent a little bit of time with Daniel Nations and he is not a person We Care a whole
lot about at this time this comes from superintendent Douglas Carter with the Indiana State Police he said this at a
news conference this is where I think the the DNA question comes up right because you and I have been fairly vocal
about this on off the Record or on our other show questioning if in fact they have DNA
now what we can report is this we know that early in the investigation it was stated that they had DNA that
disappeared from the news at some point and disappeared from their statements at
some point yeah there's also rumor that very quickly I mean we're talking like the next day
two days after the girls were found very quickly in this investigation The First
48 first first 72 hours after finding the bodies the local rumor is that the state police
were in the area knocking on doors not only interviewing everybody that lived in the immediate area but also asking
them to submit DNA right which would lead you to believe that they have DNA but what if it was
just like you know as a cautionary measure and we're talking to you will you submit DNA you will thank you so
much autopsy comes back we have no DNA from the perpetrator and you're exactly right and that's
that's the whole problem with public perception on this case and others as well you can't immediately go while
they're asking people for DNA so they must have it you just you can't believe that because it is a tactic it's an
investigative tool just to see if you can make somebody squirm and if they squirm when you ask them a question or
ask them to cooperate in any shape or form then you want to know why the hell they're squirming right right so I I why
are you a squirming Vermin yeah I I agree with you 100 here Captain I personally think that they have DNA or
some form of DNA and I say that for a couple Reasons I'm not convinced I'm not 100 convinced I
could be talked the other way but this this whole statement of of Daniel Nations is not really somebody that we
really care a whole lot about that's that's like a vague statement of almost well did you clear the guy
because that sounds I mean the public it seemed like like watching the old Frankenstein movie where the where
there's a mob with torches that are ready to hang this guy yeah and and you come out with some
vague statement and I'm not criticizing police because I think they've done I think they've worked incredibly hard on
this case but the vague statement they've not been willing to show their hand they don't
have to they don't want to it's it's almost where this is something that we're not really worried about
right we have but we have two dead kids and it's been over two years and oh but I I do not want to invest I don't have
to show their hands they don't they don't right but I I would I understand who the victims are I'm not going to ask
them to compromise their investigation in any form or fashion no I don't want them to compromise it no so what I don't
understand what you're asking no what I'm saying is that I think your statement is a little silly
because it's like well they don't they don't have to show anything they don't have to do anything well
whatever they're they've done so far it obviously hasn't worked I mean we have evidence of that so I I
don't know what they're supposed to do I'm not I'm not a detective I couldn't tell you what they're supposed to do I I
lean toward towards the idea that they don't have DNA and the reason why is because normally when they have solid
DNA in cases especially child murder cases we've seen this with JonBenet Ramsey and other cases like that
where they test the DNA and they definitively tell you that this guy is cleared you see what I mean and that's where I
wander if they have it because if they if they do have it and they're testing people
and they're clearing people and they're not making that public you know public knowledge then that's a bad thing
because just you take this Logan guy for example these these girls are found on his property 30 Acres which is pretty
freaking big and think about the ringer that they put him through and if they had the DNA to test against
his who's they that put Ron Logan through a ringer is that law enforcement or the public
because law enforcement is not in charge of the public no I understand that but again if law enforcement has the DNA and
they matched it and it didn't match Logan's DNA then I think you have a responsibility when you know the public
is going after this guy like you said like the old Frankenstein movies you I think you have an obligation to
him you're supposed to Serve and Protect each individual and if you have a test that definitively shows that he wasn't
involved I think you have the obligation to then come out and go hey we know that
people are speculating that yeah right but that's that's my reasoning that to me that's the evidence uh that they
don't have the DNA because or that they don't have Ron Logan's DNA yeah but he was arrested they could have taken his
DNA then and same way with Nations so here's two individuals is that are highly suspect on top of that a third
individual is that a felony charge because I I think in in Most states that you have to be charged and convicted of
a felony to be forced to submit your DNA I could be wrong but that's my understanding to
be forced but if you're again again okay obviously we don't know for a fact if they have Logan's DNA or not
uh do they have Nations DNA do they have you know the grandfather's DNA I'm not for sure but I would just assume it if
I'm the grandfather and everybody's saying hey you kind of look like the bridge guy and they and law enforcements
tell me they have DNA and I know I'm not the Killer swap me up so that to me that's
you like like as like you said to me there's not definitive evidence but to me there's enough showing me they're not
it's just like with this nation guy out of nowhere it's kind of like well we're not that interested their exact
words are he is somebody that we not we do not care a whole lot about at this time
right but again that's not definitive right that's what I said a vague statement right so that makes me that
makes me feel like they don't have the DNA evidence because they're kind of like well we don't care about them at
this time but I think if they had DNA evidence they would say we're not interested in
him with him about this case period not like we're not interested with him at this time
again though I go I I think that that goes back to a couple of things 100 it comes back to whether they have
DNA or not but on two different levels I think if they don't have DNA they want and they're fine with the bridge guy
walking around believing that they have it or suspecting that they have it right
so they don't want to show their hand on that front if they don't have it now if
they do have it and there's something up with it right that's tricky too there could be
some kind of um what they call that when there's actually a mixture well there there's a
bazillion different things that could be going on with it so one it could be that
they have it but it their sample is of such that they need to compare it to a profile and they can't really do a whole
lot with it without having a having a match to compare it to right if that's the case that's difficult or they could
have it and it be contaminated right they could you know what I mean there's there's a million different things that
you can really go into here the reason why I go on the opposite side and what's interesting I think here is that really
you and I kind of have the same argument for different sides of the fence is that my where I lean to that they
probably have some form of DNA is that they are somewhat dismissing people and we see that with Nations
which is which is the same and just as good of an argument as you're saying well they've not cleared other people
who probably should be cleared in the eyes of the public right and so therefore it makes me think that they
don't have it the DNA and the the other reason why I say that too though is is with the press conferences with talking
with with the family members and everybody's respect for these law enforcement officers and the respect that I you
could you got to give it to them just when you hear the press conference how much they care how much they're working
towards this they seem like good officers and if they were able to clear a guide that that the society was trying
to throw shade on I think that would do it you know a hundred percent I think they
would come out and say a hundred percent this person's not involved in the murder
of these children I can't wait until they do solve this thing because I think that the the full
story that comes out about the investigation and the way that they took this the directions that it's
gone in whether they took it that direction or the investigation LED them in that direction
I think the it it will end up being a very interesting story from that aspect of this case
and I I think that like just like they have said we can't we can't tell you everything
that we know one day we would like to sit down and do that and where I say that I they don't have to show their
hand and I don't want them to and you question well it's not working it's not working in the sense that we know that
they've not arrested the killer they've not arrested the bridge guy he's not sitting there waiting to go to trial
but where it where in fact it that same tactic may be working is they may be Crossing people off their list
and the suspect pool is going to get shorter and shorter and shorter and smaller and smaller and smaller so it
may be working in some form and fashion that's just not obvious to us [Music] make sure you join us back here in the
garage tomorrow for part two until then be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
thank you [Applause] [Music]

Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320

Part 1 of 2

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This week we revisit a case we covered back in May of 2017. This case is now over two years old but it is far from cold. We will explain why as we give a complete rundown of both the timeline and the suspects. Beer of the Week - pFriem Pilsner by the pFriem Family Brewers Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the 2017 murders of two Indiana girls, their last movements, and the ongoing investigation into the case.

Key points

Double Homicide Investigation. The bodies of two missing girls have been identified, leading to a double homicide investigation.
Search for Missing Girls. Family and volunteers search for two missing girls after they fail to return home.
Bodies Discovered. The search ends tragically with the discovery of the girls' bodies near Deer Creek.
The Audio That Changed Everything. The release of Libby's audio recording leads to over a thousand tips.
Speculation on the Killer's Actions. Discussion about the killer's potential awareness of being recorded on Libby's phone.
The Grandfather's Public Statement. Mike Patty, Libby's grandfather, speaks out, sparking online debate about his resemblance to the suspect.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We feel confident we're gonna track them down.

Sheriff's assurance to the community

4:44WatchNov 3, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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