Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320 | Forensic Files

when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details Rosetta Stone
is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the rap to learn French and it's not just about
memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now
Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever
for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a
GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and gentlemen he is as I'd like to say one half of The
Mega Powers he is our captain and I'll be steering the drunken flying garage ship today it's good to be seen and it's
good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] it's summertime and it's hot out and I
love an ice cold crisp psor so today in the garage we have a pillor from the fre
family Brewers which won the 2018 midsize Brewery of the Year from the Great American Beer Festival now the
first thing you will notice with fre and pillner is the brilliant gold color and
then you get the aroma of spring flowers and lemon you'll taste a of honey and it
finishes crisp and clean garage grade four out of five bottle caps and today's beer was delivered to the garage thanks
to these TCG die hards right here first up a big longdistance cheers and thank you to Ahmed and Mary and Lake oo Oregon
and a big cheers to Emily and Cape Coral Florida next we have a cheers to Matthew
m in Parts Unknown and also in pu we have Kendrick K pu cuz in Parts Unknown known people are not putting up the
toilet seats so you better put up the toilet seats or you get kicked out on your
keer and a big cheers mates to Cheryl and Rome New York and let's give some thanks to Jared and Jenny from Bluefield
West Virginia and last but certainly not least we have another Emily she says to
get some Dutch beer and Emily is from Amsterdam everyone we just mentioned went to True Crim garage.com and donated
to this week's beer fund and for that we thank all of you if you'd like to support the garage and get something
back in return go to truecrime garage.com click on our store Page we have some sticker packs we got some tank
tops we have some T-shirts we we got a bunch of new products coming too so you want to keep
check in the store page for those also check us out on the Stitcher app for our old episodes and Stitcher premium for
our weekly show called off the Record and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
chair grab a few beers let's talk some true [Music] [Music] crime [Music] basically we have identified the bodies
of of the two uh females that were found out yesterday or yes yesterday uh the bodies are of uh have been positive
identified as Abigail J Williams 13 of the deli area and Liberty Rose ly German 14 of
the deli area the two girls were reported missing on Monday February 13th the bodies were
discovered about 12:15 on the 14th in the woods just east of town here by volunteers that helped in the search of
the children after they were reported missing to the Carol County Sheriff's Department family has been
notified this is considered a double homicide in investigation no further information
will be released at this time we have we have nobody in in custody at this time uh so as far as I'm concerned yes there
is somebody out there that did this horrendous crime and uh we're going to track him down it is disturbing it is
concerning as sheriff in my position and uh you know I want to I guess assure the
community is as Trooper Riley indicated we're going to get to the bottom of this
we feel confident and uh you know we're going we're going to do everything we can within our uh resources to reach
Justice in this [Music] situation this is Deli Indiana and our case starts on the afternoon of February
13th 2017 at about 1:40 in the afternoon 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German were dropped
off by Libby's older sister Kelsey the drop off location is at a trail head on County Road 300 North this is near the
scenic monan High Bridge which is an abandoned railroad bridge that goes over Deer Creek in Carroll County
Indiana okay I'm going to try to get as detailed on this portion of our timeline
as I can so before the girls left left to go to the bridge in the trails Libby asked her older sister Kelsey several
times if she could drive them out there to which Kelsey said no several times before basically giving in and saying
yes now Liberty had already secured permission from her grandmother Becky to go to the
bridge the idea was Becky said yes you and Abby can go to the bridge if you can get a ride there and if you can get a
ride back So the plan was for Kelsey to drop the two girls off and then around 3:30 p.m. Libby's father Derek would
pick both of them up this 330 marker is just a general time as Derek said he would call Libby when he was close to
the pickup location so Kelsey drops off the girls and then calls her boyfriend to tell him that she is in route to go
hang out with him Kelsey was going to go hang out with him and and then go off to
work while walking on the trail Libby posts a photo to Snapchat this is the now famous 207 p.m. Snapchat photo
showing Abby crossing the moanin high bridge at 3:11 p.m. Derek calls Libby's phone Libby does not answer at 3:13
Derek makes another call Derek says both of these calls go to voicemail but after
ringing so Libby's phone rings and then the calls go to voicemail eventually and I've seen it
reported this might have been as early as 3:30 p.m. calls to Libby's phone start going directly to
voicemail when this second call goes to voicemail Derek Parks the car so now he is parked in a location where he can
pick up the girls this is the same general location where the two girls were originally dropped off off Derek
claims that once he Parks the car he gets out of his car immediately yeah he parked at the trail head and he walks
the trail within minutes of parking the vehicle and starting off on the trail on
foot he comes to an intersecting path he says it's here where he sees as he has described an older man with a plaid or
flannel shirt on he asks this man if he has seen two girls to which the man responds no but I saw a couple on the
Bridge these Trails out there are numbered the intersecting trails are the 501 Trail and the 505 Trail yeah Derek
is going to walk down the 505 Trail to look for the girls now forgive me everyone as I've only seen this on maps
but it appears to me that the 501 Trail is the more heavily traveled Trail it appears to be like the main trail there
Derek takes the other Trail the 505 which dead ends at Deer Creek he does not find the girls and he does not see
anyone else so he turns around and he heads back the way he came walking all the way back to his vehicle once he is
near his vehicle he calls Becky Patty Becky is Libby's grandmother Derek is telling her hey I'm here Libby is not
picking up the phone the girls are not here this this phone call takes place at 3:30
p.m. after the call Derek is going to walk the 501 path so he gets there he's calling nobody's answering he walks down
a path the less lesser traveled path gets back to the car still nothing now he's going to go walk the main path but
at this point there has to be some level of concern oh yeah yeah so much so that
he's already called Becky the grandmother right so let's give a general description of this path which I
think is very important for those that have not seen this on a map all right from where he is parked the general
description is this starting from where he parked he walks a short distance on a
short Trail once there he is standing at the 501 Trail which is a Long Trail it's
the more traveled Trail it's also called the moan and High Bridge Trail because if you are standing right there at the
intersecting trails Trail 501 or the monin High Bridge Trail to the Northwest goes all the way to the freedom Bridge
which is a beautiful pedestrian bridge that extends over Highway 25 better known as the hoer Heartland highway or
Triple H for wrestling fans to the Northwest is this beautiful Freedom Bridge right to the southeast is the
moan and high bridge so Derek goes up to the freedom bridge to see if the girls are up there he does not see them then
again he turns around by the time he gets back to the intersecting Trails this is when members of Libby's family
start to arrive to help in the search remember we said Kelsey was going to work well she got a call from Becky the
grandmother who is alerting the family that Libby is missing so instead of going to work Kelsey returns to help as
well just real quick just to recap because a lot of things are happening here the girls were dropped off at
approximately 1:40 p.m. I've seen this time as early as 1:35 p.m. and as late as 1:45 p.m. yeah the Snapchat photo is
at 20:7 p.m. so we know they are alive and well at 2:07 then not even an hour and a half
later less than 90 minutes later Derek is there at 3:15 looking for them at at 3:30 Becky is notified and by 400 p.m.
less than 2 hours after the Snapchat photo multiple members of Libby's family are there at the trails and looking for
the girls between 3:30 and 400 p.m. her family continues to try to call her some
leaving voicemails and some texting as well at about 4:20 p.m. Kelsey along with Cody Cody is Libby's Uncle Kelsey
and Cody set out down the trail and they go in the direction of the moan and high
bridge and they actually cross the bridge when they get to the other side of the bridge they went to a couple of
the homes in the area knocking on doors to inquire about Libby and Abby according to Kelsey and Cody they only
speak to one person and of course that person had not seen the girls Mike Patty is Libby's
grandfather just a quick background for those who are less familiar with the case Libby and her older sister Kelsey
were raised by their grandparents Mike and Becky Derek is their father both their father and mother are involved in
their lives but the mother lives all the way or lived at the time about 4 hours away in Kentucky Mike Patty Libby's
grandfather arrives on the scene this is right around 5:00 p.m. now there's a residence very near the trail head
parking area Mike goes to this home he knows these people there at the home while there he calls a friend of his who
is a police officer then Mike goes back to the trails this is around 5:20 p.m. at 5:30 p.m. Libby's family calls and
notifies the police a huge search gets underway but is called off once it gets too dark in a news release Carrol County
Sheriff Toby lasenby says there's no reason to suspect Foul Play or believe the girls are in immediate danger well
and based off of video footage and photos that I've seen of this area this would be difficult I think to search at
night actually I'd actually think parts of it would actually be dangerous to search at night there's steep hills
there and there's also I mean that bridge that moanin high bridge is dangerous in itself right it's an
abandoned railroad bridge anybody that walks across it and many people have uh it was a popular place to go before this
incident but even after people have filmed themselves or taken pictures of themselves on this bridge and you see
everybody looking down as they walk it it's a 70 foot drop uh 70 or 75 foot drop if you fall off that bridge and
anybody that's ever walked on an abandoned railroad bridge knows that sometimes they're missing steps and even
all the steps that are there there's a distance between them where you could could you could twist an ankle you could
easily lose your footing right and on top of that too I've seen pictures of this area both in the summer fall winter
and even in the month of February even with all the leaves off of the trees this is an area that's heavily
wooded in in a lot of parts and tough to see things at any distance at all even when the the leaves are off of the trees
right so they call Off The Surge they're they're trying to be hopeful but I'd be
a little concerned that if they're out there somewhere in the park that this is not the best area for them to be in
especially after dark right and you have the highway that's right by there the the um Indiana Highway number 25 which
we've discussed that on other cases too you don't want to disappear or go missing right around a highway but that
also probably leads to some kind of discussion on several levels these are young
teenage girls it's it's they've only been missing for a few hours uh probably let's say 5 six hours by the time they
call off the search right you're probably having the discussion with her caretakers with with the parents and
caretakers of these two young girls that they might have they might be off partying with somebody or they might be
out you know doing something right they could have been drop us off at the park we're going to meet up with somebody
that they just didn't tell their Guardians about so they're not going to start searching until the next morning
which would be February 14th 2017 yeah the search continues for the girls and there are several of these
teams of Searchers out there they you can find on YouTube and any of the people that were local remember that
they were calling that morning they were out on TV broadcasting and saying anybody that is available today please
come out and help us search this area for these two girls but unfortunately just after around 12:00 noon one of the
teams finds two bodies and this is about a half a mile away from the bridge from
the moan and high bridge so if you're looking at a map of the area and based off of later evidence the girls were
abducted after 20:07 p.m. we know that from the the uh Snapchat photo and they would have been abducted after 2:07 p.m.
at the southeast side of the bridge this is where they were likely ordered by the
abductor to go down the hill they would have went down the hill and then across a long private driveway now this is not
keep in mind this is not the suburbs so when we say driveway it's not what anybody's picturing this driveway looks
like a long long gravel and dirt road and at this approximate location you can't really see any houses
there's not houses or like other roads visible at this location so as soon as they they go across this dirt road
gravel road Private driveway whatever you want to call it they would have then went down yet another Hill and this one
is steeper than the last this would put them right at the edge of Deer Creek the bodies were found on the opposite
side of this Creek about 50 feet from the North Bank of Deer Creek Police have not publicly stated how the girls were
murdered and law enforcement secured a large area of this North Bank of the creek with crime scene tape as well as
some of the areas from that Southeast side of the bridge working your way down to the creek
side we do not know if the girls were ordered to cross the creek at the shallow point there or if they tried to
make a run for it or if in fact they may have been killed and then carried across
the creek to try to conceal the bodies further we we don't know that but we know that they were found across the
creek is there any way to get across the creek some other way like by driving down a path or I say that they crossed
at this shallow point because that would be what would make the most sense be from from where they were
found um right if you were to cross the creek there's there's that one shallow point right there and it's near that
North Bank area where they were were found and I don't believe that police have actually disclose whether or not
their clothing was wet with the creek water well that's that's the difficult thing
here in this case and that's why we're going to go through it in this manner because when we originally covered it
was very early in the case and there was little to known facts about the case there was a lot of
speculation there was even speculation at that time that they were found in the creek and we can piece together words of
of law enforcement and detectives since then to know that that's not true they were found on dry ground about 5050 ft
from the creek side regarding the wet clothing we don't know if their clothing was found at all right to for starters
and factoring in the the distance of time the time that has elapsed from when it's believed that they were abducted
and likely killed to when they were found I can't say I can't say if their clothes would have been still wet at
that that time what I can say but what you're saying just so we're clear you're not saying that they were found
nude I don't know we don't we don't know but that's what I'm saying is the the way you made it sound was like we don't
know if their clothes were even found right you asked about wet clothes and I'm saying we just don't know because we
don't we don't even have anybody to tell us if the cloth clothing was on them was
found was was never there whatever but what I'm going to guess here and say is that and I'm basing this simply off of
just what the police did in fact rope off with with the large area on that North Bank uh Creek Side with crime
scene tape I'm completely guessing here Captain but it it would seem more likely
to me that they were they were probably killed on the side of the creek in which
they were found again I don't know if that means that they were ordered to cross the creek or if they tried to make
a run for it now on the 15th on February 15th autopsies were conducted on the bodies that afternoon Indiana State
Police in the Carroll County Sheriff's Department held a press conference and they did confirm that they found Liberty
and Abigail Libby and Abby the girls were murdered and again they did not state how they were killed Indiana State
Police also released a photo of a man reported ly seen on the trail around the time the girls disappeared the image
shows a white male with his hands in his pockets while walking on the bridge he's
wearing jeans and a navy blue jacket and a hat well the the hat is still an argument but a lot of the news pressers
that came out around this time describe him as wearing a hat it's very pixelated police this is the other
tricky thing here right from the get-go so police do not call the man a suspect but say that they would like to talk
with him we've seen this tactic in other cases sometimes that person is actually
considered a suspect by law enforcement but by releasing it in this manner right
not calling him a suspect and just saying we would like to talk with him there have been cases where that
individual has come forward to try to explain away why they are in the area at that time he goes He you looking for me
yeah now also uh law enforcement does not say where the photo came from or how they
obtained the photo now I remember thinking and and I don't think this was stated anywhere by and I know it wasn't
stated by law enforcement but I'm sure others may have been thinking the same thing that I thought maybe this photo
this it was a still image may have just been captured from some type of trail camera right but we're going to soon
learn that this actually was taken by Libby on her [Applause] [Music] phone this show is sponsored by better
help do you look forward to the holidays maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's
natural to feel some sadness or even anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can
counteract some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel
grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better
help a try it's entirely online designed to be convenient flexible and suited to
your schedule just fill out a brief question a to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist
at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with betterhelp visit betterhelp.com
Garay to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language
learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the rap to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words
but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an
awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen
on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger at Consumer Cellular you get
the same exact coverage as the largest carriers but for up to half the cost same thing up to half the cost up to
half the cost for the same thing 50% the money for 100% the same thing I hope I'm
making myself clear consuming cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 Freedom half the cost
savings based on cost of consumer cellular single line 5 GB data plan with unlimited talk and text compared to
lowest cost single line postpaid unlimited talk text and data plan offered by T-Mobile and Verizon May
[Music] 2023 all right we're back cheers cheers to you captain on February 22nd 2017
there is another news conference this is the now famous news conference where police reveal that one of the victims
Libby recorded video and audio of the suspect on her cell phone the audio recording is released to the public it's
a man's voice saying down the hill this audio triggered more than a thousand tips we can Captain you and I like so
many others offered our speculation on not only the photo but the audio when we first covered this case back in May of
2017 in episodes 110 and 111 yeah those are free to listen to on the Stitcher app and a lot of the speculation that
was involved between you and I and like I said others on their TV shows their podcast in newspaper articles everywhere
was how much more does police have what more was recovered from Libby's phone and we also question things like you
know the the voice sounds muffled is that because the the phone was concealed in her pocket and how did they obtain
this information that was on her phone was her phone in fact found I believe now I you know at the
time I thought maybe they pulled this stuff from the the cloud possibly I I've changed my opinion on
that I'm starting to think that they probably found her phone and it was just a I think the killer was in a rush to
get out of there and may have not known that his image and his voice was captured on her phone yeah or was
unaware that she had a phone I mean there's any any number of reasons out there but again I'm just simply guessing
on that but I wanted to mention that I've changed my thoughts and feelings on that I think po very likely that they
found found her phone now by March 1st the reward money for information in the case grew to
$200,000 8 Days Later Mike Patty Libby's grandfather who some on the internet were saying looked like the suspect or
the bridge guy speaks out publicly for the first time at the Carol County Courthouse personally I don't think Mike
looks anything like what I think I'm seeing in the photo of the bridge guy and I say what I think that I'm seeing
because as you've pointed out it's a p pixelated grainy photo right it's taken some distance away the man on the bridge
the bridge guy is some distance away from Libby when she took this video footage and what's released to the
public there's hot debate and has been for almost two year Well for over two years about what we are seeing and what
this individual looks like but again personally I don't think nor have I ever thought that that Mike Patty looks
anything like what we are seeing in that photo and then later the video footage right but you have
two children dead we have no evidence of the grandfather being there around 2:00
let's say and you would think that with this information he might not have known
let's just say hypothetically it was him he wouldn't have known that he was having his picture taken by
her you would think that somebody in the family would come forward and say that looks like
him yeah and there's nobody coming forward and and doing that and and I think they probably agree with me that
it doesn't that they don't think it looks like him one I don't think it looks like him body type I don't think
it looks like his face I don't think it looks like his his facial features his hair his nothing like there's there's
none of it that other than it being a white guy right I don't see any other any other possible connection plus we
know that Mike Patty has an alibi for that time period he he very likely when you really tear through this timeline
and some of the phone calls that were going on right I find it very likely that Mike Patty would have been unaware
that the girls were even there until they were until people were worried right until they said hey they're
missing and and I think that's what's so difficult in this case is it seems like
there's a lot of grabbing at straws I mean the first thing that I'd want to know investigating this case is one we
don't know if this bridge guy is connected or not we're not law enforcement so we don't know the extent
of information that that phone captured do we have minutes of audio footage do we have minutes of video footage we
don't know we're not law enforcement and my but my first thing when looking at this case is who was supposed to drop
her off where were they at what's their Alibi after that then it becomes who was
supposed to pick them up where's his location based off maybe cell phone pings you know does the does the father
get there earlier than he says he did uh you know where where was he at what's his alibi what would his motive be this
is where I would start but you see quickly in this case people jumping to that looks like the
grandpa and and having really no evidence to connect connect that at all well and that's what this case will has
been and will continue to be and this is not a standalone incident we've seen this in other cases where they release a
composite sketch drawing of the person last seen with somebody or a potential suspect right and you get a flood of
people calling in and the tip is not a great tip it's just a tip of I know somebody that looks like that or I was
driving on the on the uh this such and such Road on Main Street and I passed a car and the guy in the car looked
exactly like that dude like that picture like that drawing but what we will learn
is that we will eventually learn just to clear anything up here that the the image captured on Libby's phone it it is
it is announced later that that is the killer of of the two girls so that is the person that we are looking for the
debate is what are we seeing what does he actually look like because it's a grainy again it's a grainy
picture and he he's walking with his face down and he's not walking with his face down to try to conceal himself from
her her camera phone I don't think he even knew that he was being videotaped he's looking down because
he's making sure that he doesn't lose his footing on that bridge right and fall 70t just like everybody else if if
this guy felt that he needed to conceal his face from from these two girls he would have put on a mask or he would
have put something on he would have done that in a different manner other than just simply looking down as he's walking
toward them and I want to go ahead and throw this out there too you can tell that he's hurridly he's
he's in a hurry walking towards them so even more important that he's paying attention to the placement of his feet
as he makes his way across the bridge um what we're going to see here though this whole thing that I'm pointing out
here with Mike Patty with the grandfather he's making this this very personalized statement this
very heartfelt statement at the County Courthouse but I'm pointing this out because on the internet people were
saying that he looked like the suspect or some people thought he looked like the suspect this is really just the
start of the online suspects that we will see in this case and it quickly continued because on March 17th the
Indiana State Police the FBI and Carroll County Sheriff's deput deputies serve a
search warrant this is at the home of Ron Logan Ron Logan owns the 30 acre property where Abby and Libby were found
yeah the popular TV show Inside Edition speaks to this man uh in his interview he says he was buying tropical fish at
the time of the murders Ron Logan is later arrested and sentenced to 2 years for operating a vehicle this is after he
was El legally operating a vehicle this is after being a habitual traffic offender he is accused of driving to the
county dump on the same day that the girls vanish to be 100% clear he has not been charged in regards to the murders
although he's certainly been same kind of scenario a lot of people saw his interview and went that
looks like the guy right and and it's his property so and there's some debate on how Cooperative he has been with
police right I've seen people that have said Ron has been gone out of his way to
do everything he can to make sure that they know what he was up to that he was not involved and then I've heard other
other arguments that have said just that complete counter of that that that he has not been very
forthcoming yeah and a lot of people actually spec ulate that here's this lesser charge that we can charge him
with and therefore maybe he would then say something because I remember at the time once they arrested him it's like
okay well here's this guy that claims he was somewhere where he wasn't um you know then they you know why is he at the
dump the day that these these girls are found yeah none of this is sounding good
this yeah that doesn't sound good what what is he disposing of because yes you you find these bodies but again we don't
know if they were clothed or not clothed and then on top of that what did he use
for these murders and did he go to the dump and and dump those so a lot of people speculated early that this was a
a tactic to get him behind bars get him thinking about what happened get him away from everybody and therefore he
would then come forward and and maybe possibly confess to this the other thing though too is you know we talk about
what does not sound good for for Ron what does look good to me is I don't think that he look like the bridge guy I
think Ron looks considerably older than what I think I'm seeing in that picture and he I don't think he matches the
description not only does he look older he looks a little bit he looks taller to
me than than what we believe we are looking for and then in July of 2017 after everyone was waiting and
waiting for the other shoe to drop for some kind of new information on the case the Indiana State Police released a
sketch of the murder suspect the person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a white male between 5' 6
in tall to 5' 10 in tall weighing 180 to 220 lb with reddish brown hair and eye color
unknown right so this would go against Logan yeah because of the hair color one also
the the drawing looks a lot younger than than Logan looks yeah and this is the this part of the story can get a little
confusing for people not so familiar with the case because there are eventually two sketches released this is
the first one and you I guarantee that people have seen this this is the one with the the flapjack hat on and the the
little kind of thin goatee hair sticking out on the sides around the ears and the
individual wearing a hoodie well on the picture that they released to the public
it's very pixelated so then one would have to start assuming that they had some other
angle uh some other picture that they found on Libby's phone and and that's how they were getting this
drawing well that's that's interesting that's always been another hotly debated item so it's rumored and then later
stated on the Dr Phil show that that that this sketch was the product of more than one eyewitness who saw this man on
the trails so going off of that statement it seems like this sketch is not compiled based off what they think
they were seeing on her phone or on that footage but based off of more than one eyewitness who saw or claims to have
seen this man on the trails the the day that the girls were killed now for some speculation on
this several people have put together and compiled some good info on this case these people seem to believe that
given the timing of the known facts and of the persons on the trails that day and Libby's family there searching for
her just shortly after the abduction for there to be more than one eyewitness of
this man many believe he must have been spotted both before and after the murders some have made a strong case
that the man wearing the plaid or flannel shirt that interacted with Derek on the trail intersection before 3:30
p.m. people have pointed out that he must be or very likely could be one of the persons to have seen the suspect and
given that timeline he likely saw the suspect after the murders when the suspect was trying to leave the area
this is interesting on several levels s if in fact that it if it's true one because it has never been publicly
released where the public where the suspect was spotted M and by who and even though there are several theories
out there we don't know what route or exactly where the suspect left the area from right from law enforcement
statements it's believed at least one witness is a man and at least one witness to the suspect was a female
and I say that because in one of the pressers when giving answers one of the officers says
she in in response to this composite sketch so and I I would argue or just speculate that these eyewitness accounts
are before pre-murder because where they're found and and the area that they're found is is it's off
the trail and to then backtrack and to get back onto the trail to leave um my gut is telling me that that's not
how it happened that's possible but we don't know where this where this monster parked his vehicle right and it may or
if he had a vehicle there at all it may not have been out of design it may been have had to have been out of necessity
to make his way back and backtrack through the trails correct he could have also avoided the main trail for a large
portion of whatever part that he had to walk back to his vehicle you know tromping through the woods as much as he
could until he had to get back onto the trail and and if he if he had to get back on the trail I would say that would
be more likely we cannot say for certain that the man in the plaid or flannel shirt was one of the people that claims
to have seen the suspect that that was provided details to come up with this sketch but I'm guessing based off of
that this individual has talked with with police pretty extensively if regarding his timeline
flannel shirman plaid shirt man's timeline right if he if he tells police I did not arrive until to the park or
Trail area until this time that might be why the speculation is that maybe he did
in fact see this suspect after the murders because we now what's so interesting about this timeline to me
and what we did not know when we first covered this case is the the window in which the the murders very likely
occurred is so much shorter than what we originally thought right we're talking about it's so very likely that this this
all went down between about 215 and and maybe 3:00 right it seems to be generally believed or or theorized
that the killer had already made his way out of that general area by the time or
shortly after Derek Libby's father arrived and looking for her and I think you can base that that
thought off of his interaction with the flannel shirtman right all right sorry I
went down I went down a long road there thank you for for joining me on it there
well I also want to bring up the fact that based on it's speculated cuz they're not
telling us how they died how they were killed right mhm but from some of the rumors out
there that you would think that this guy would have some kind of blood on him there would be some kind of blood
evidence and so that's why like I said whether you're leaving from a different way that you came in because you could
backtrack somewhere or like you said and I agree with you staying off the path as
long as you can because you have this evidence on you that something bad happened mhm and and so so I think that
again they have all this information they're only releasing bits and pieces so we we can only speculate on some of
these things you know what I do want to point out real quick while we're on that
top before before the thought leaves my tiny little brain here um there is one YouTuber who's done well there's several
YouTubers that have done a lot of work on this case some of it good some of it bad just that's my warning if if you
choose to go down that path don't say that Nick don't say that the colonel and the captain sent you go in there swim at
your own risk some of it is good info and some of it is absolutely painful and terrible to watch yeah but at the good
stuff right but at the end of the day day there's two murdered kids and I think that's why the community has the
community of True Crimes have triying to got behind this case and and try to do everything they can to put the word out
there and sometimes people get fixated in their ideas and fixated on you know it has to be this Logan guy or it has to
be the father or it has to be the grandfather uh they just get fixated but at the end of the day I think they don't
mean harm by that I think they're really trying to bring attention to the case well this is one thing that I found
super interesting that this this guy did and I can't remember his first name last
name greo greo has done a lot of YouTube work on this case and one thing that he
did that I found incredibly interesting was he had a a man wear about the same color of jeans cuz that's one thing you
can't dispute that's not up for debate we know we can look at that picture and see what color those jeans are that the
guy was wearing and so he had somebody wear the same color of jeans and remember what we do know is this the
killer the bridge guy would have had to cross that Creek at some point and it it
would either be because he ordered the girls across the creek and killed them there or he transported the bodies there
or he or he chased after them because they tried to make a run for it right so those are two known facts and this is
what I think is brilliant anybody anytime anybody can take some known facts and then do a little
experimentation with them yeah fantastic work so so uh a big kudos to greo there
but what he did was he had a man wear the same color of jeans and then walk across that Creek at that shallow area
and then very shortly afterwards he videotaped the guy's jeans which sounds silly but what he's pointing out is and
it was was very clear on on the from his footage if this man if the bridge guy were walking and later spotted by
somebody it's very likely that nobody would say I saw a man wearing wet jeans walking on the trail the way the color
of those jeans when he filmed them after the guy walked across the the water there right did not appear to look wet
to me which I I found fascinating because that was one thing that I always wondered about once we learned more of
the area of where in fact they were found I kept going well why wouldn't out of these Witnesses and out of these
people that were at the bridge and at the trails those days that day and then all these people from Libby's family
there shortly afterwards looking for her mhm it would have been so easy for police to get a tip that oh I saw a guy
that looked exactly like this and what was so odd about him was he was soaking wet but we don't have that tip right and
again we don't know you would think maybe you you would see more of that if if the perpetrator chased after them and
had to run through the water but again if it's one of those things where it's the the crime happened on one side and
then the murderer transported their bodies over you could roll up your jeans or whatever but basically what what your
state in which I think is very intelligent is the idea of even if they walked through the water you might not
have seen um this might not stuck out to you no because all it looks like is a darker pair of blue jeans it doesn't
look like like they're soaking wet it just looks like a darker color a darker shade of blue and here's the other thing
too regarding Mike Patty and the um the property owner Logan Ron Logan look I understand people have
their suspicions but I want to throw this out there just so we can all try to get on the same page
this is not some fumbling and bumbling investigation this is the state police this is the FBI this is the sheriff's
department this is as many agencies as you can possibly think of working together putting all their resources
into solving this case yeah key word FBI if the if the bridge guy was somebody so
close in Social Circle to one of the victims such as Mike Patty or somebody so close
in proximity as to Ron Logan to where the bodies were found on his property it's been over two years this thing
would have been solved by now now nobody's out there standing on a hill saying I'm going to die on this hill and
argue this to death that these two were not involved nobody's doing that so there's still public speculation and
suspicion out there I'm saying that I believe if somebody was so close either in proximity or
relationship to the girls that committed this crime that was was in fact Bridge Guy the killer this thing would have
been solved by now it it seems so far-fetched that that that that would be the result when this thing does finally
get solved because it will so let's continue on with some some other suspects here Captain well I I just want
to say I agree with you mostly but again we don't know what evidence they have and what evidence they don't have and so
um but what we do know is that they haven't come out publicly and said that Logan is not involved they haven't come
out publicly and and stated that that they cleared everybody in the family or cleared people in closed circles so that
has to remain on the table and I think especially the family members are normally understanding of
that you take any case like where a wife is murdered and they heavily investigate
the husband most of the time if if the husband is innocent he's saying that's fine keep looking at me keep keep
investigating me if you want you're going to get to a dead end at some point so I think that you have to keep those
on the table because again we don't know exactly what they have and what they don't well this is where for some the
levy broke and this is on September 17th 2017 when authorities in Colorado arrested a man named Daniel Nations for
having expired Indiana license plates police say he could be linked to the murders and call him a person of
interest in the deli case Daniel Nations is a sex offender from the state of Indiana and he was homeless at the time
of the murder so nailing down his whereabouts is difficult to say the least M nation's
wife says he resembles the police sketch of the suspect but did not own the clothing scene in the photo in fact she
told The Gazette newspaper quote I can't tell if that is him or not but the one thing I'm not going to buckle on he did
not have that jacket so Daniel Nations was arrested during the Tim Atkins murder investigation this murder took
place in the state of Colorado to be clear he was arrested during this investigation but he was not been
charged in the murder of Tim Watkins even though there are some who suspect Nations could possibly have killed Tim
right because he was seen and reported to be threatening people with a hatchet on the trails out there but Tim Watkins
was killed with a gun and authorities have been unable to link Nations to to a gun and the murder of Tim Watkins well
here's what happened in the public eye though you hear here's this guy that was arrested he was on these Trails he was
threatening people with a hatchet and you go and he's from Indiana and I believe he had a probation hearing or
some kind of hearing that he was supposed to show up to it was he's supposed to check in regularly because
he's a sex offender right he's like he's got a parole officer and all that jazz and he's got to show up and say hey I'm
here I'm still I'm still working at my job I'm keeping my nose clean I'm not doing anything weird but it was like
something he didn't show up yeah but it was like the week after the murders it was like some weird timing where it's
like so not only um do the you know not only do we not know his whereabouts when
he was in Indiana but he these murders take place and you take off and the next time next time we see you you're in
Colorado threatening people with that acting like a complete nut job and if you see his picture and you see the
first drawing uh of the suspect you go I can see that and then that was it they they were saying that they were
transporting him back to Indiana mhm and then we just kind of sat around for a while just wondering what was happening
yeah we talked about who I think does not look like the sketch or the bridge guy of what I think I'm seeing in the in
the picture there yeah if you put Mike Patty Ron Logan and Daniel nations in a lineup and said Nick which one of these
looks like the bridge guy I'm saying Daniel Nations please step forward here he looks to me a much more like
potential Bridge guy than the other two yeah same hair color as described as well same weird face but mhm he he
claims his Alibi is that he was tagging along with his wife for a doctor's visit
that day to which later she says I believe he was with me but I can't I can't prove 100% that he was in fact
with me that that day now keep in mind she's being asked this you know six months later right seven months later um
we covered Tim Watkins case if anybody's interested in checking that out earlier
this year in March this is episodes 284 and 285 and we also covered the Daniel nation's portion of that case in depth
in those episodes on February 14th 2018 one year after the double homicides of Libby and Abby authorities say Daniel
Nations is not a suspect saying quote we went out to Colorado and we spent a little bit of time with Daniel Nations
and he is not a person We Care a whole lot about at this time this comes from Super intendent Douglas Carter with the
Indiana State Police he said this at a news conference this is where I think the the DNA question comes up right
because you and I have been fairly vocal about this on off the record on our other show
questioning if in fact they have DNA now what we can report is this we know early in the investigation it was
stated that they had DNA that disappeared from the news at some point and disappeared from their statements at
some point yeah there's also rumor that very quickly I mean we're talking like the
next day two days after the girls were found very quickly in this investigation The First 48 for first 72 hours after
finding the bodies the local rumor is is that the state police were in the area knocking
on doors not only interviewing everybody that lived in the immediate area but also asking them to submit
DNA right which would lead you to believe that they have DNA but what if it was just like you know as a
cautionary measure and we're talking to you will you submit DNA you will thank you so much autopsy comes back we have
no DNA from the perpetrator and you're exactly right and that's that's the whole problem with public perception on
this case and others as well you can't immediately go well they're asking people for DNA so they must have it you
just you can't believe that because it is a tactic it's an investigative tool just to see if you can make somebody
squirm and if they squirm when you ask them a question or ask them to cooperate in any shape or form then you want to
know why the hell they're squiring right right so I I agree why are you a squiring verman yeah I I agree with you
100% here Captain I personally think that they have DNA or some form of DNA and I say that for a couple Reasons I'm
not convinced I'm not 100% convinced I could be talked the other way but this this whole statement of of
Daniel Nations is not really somebody that we really care a whole lot about that's that's like a vague statement of
almost well did you clear the guy because that sounds I mean the public it seemed like like watching the
old Frankenstein movie where the where there's a mob with torches that are ready to hang this guy yeah and and you
come out with some vague statement and I'm not criticizing police because I think they've done I think they've
worked incredibly hard on this case but the vague statement they've not been willing to show their hand they
don't have to they don't want to it's it's almost we're this is something that we're not really worried about to much
we but we have two dead kids and it's been over two years and oh but I I do not want the inv don't have to show
their hands they don't they don't right but I I would I understand who the victims are I'm not going to ask them to
compromise their investigation in any form or fashion no I don't want the to compromise it no so what I don't
understand what you're asking no what I'm saying is that I think your statement is a little
silly because it's like well they don't they don't have to show anything they don't have to do anything well whatever
they're they've done so far obviously hasn't worked I mean we have evidence of that so I I don't know
what they're supposed to do I'm not I'm not a a detective I couldn't tell you what they're supposed to do I I lean to
towards the idea that they don't have DNA and the reason why is because normally when they have solid DNA and
cases especially child murder cases we've seen this with John B Ramsey and other cases like that where they test
the DNA and they definitively tell you that this guy is cleared you see what I mean and that's
where I wonder if they have it because if they if they do have it and they're testing people
and they're clearing people and they're not making that public you know public knowledge then that's a bad thing
because just you take this Logan guy for example these these girls are found on his property 30 Acres which is pretty
freaking big and think about the ringer that they put him through and if they had the DNA to test
against his who's they that put put Ron Logan through a ringer is that law enforcement or the
public because law enforcement is not in charge of the public no I understand that but again if law enforcement has
the DNA and they matched it and it didn't match Logan's DNA then I think you have a responsibility when you know
the public is going after this guy like you said like the old Frankenstein movies you I think have an obligation to
him you're supposed to Serve and Protect each individual and if you have a test that definitively shows that he wasn't
involved I think you have the obligation to then come out and go hey we know that
people are speculating that that is right but that's that's my reasoning that to me that's the evidence uh that
they don't have the DNA because or that they don't have Ron Logan's DNA yeah but
he was arrested they could have taken his DNA DNA then and same way with Nations so here's two individuals that
are highly suspect on top of that a third individual felony charge because I I think in in Most
states that you have to be charged and convicted of a felony to be forced to submit your DNA I could be wrong but
that's my understanding right to be forced but if you're again again okay obviously we don't know for a fact if
they have Logan's DNA or not uh do they have nation's DNA do they have you know the grandfather's DNA I'm not for sure
but I would just assume that if I'm the grandfather and and everybody's saying hey you kind of look like the bridge guy
and they and law enforc is telling me that they have DNA and I know I'm not the killer swap me
up so that to to me that's you like like I like you said to me there's not definitive evidence but to me there's
enough showing me they're not it's just like with this nation guy out of nowhere
it's kind of like well we're not that interested their exact words are he is somebody that we not we do not care a
whole lot about at this time right but again that's not definitive right that's what I said a vague statement right so
that makes me that makes me feel like they don't have the DNA evidence because they're kind of like well we don't care
about them at this time but I think if they had DNA evidence they would say we're not interested in
him with him about this case period not like we're not interested with him at this
time again though I go I I think that that goes back to a couple of things 100% it comes back to whether
they have DNA or not but on two different levels I think if they don't have DNA they want and they're fine with
the bridge guy walking around believing that they have it or suspecting that they have it right so they don't want to
show their hand on that front if they don't have it now if they do have it and there's something up with
it right that's tricky too there could be some kind of um what do they call that when there's
actually a mixture well there there's a bazillion different things that could be
going on with it so one it could be that they have it but it their sample is of such that they need to compare it to a
profile and they can't really do a whole lot with it without having a having a match to compare it to right if that's
the case that's difficult or they could have it and it be contaminated right they could have you know what I mean
there's there's a million different things that you can really go into here the reason why I go on the opposite side
and and what's interesting I think here is that really you and I kind of have the same argument for different sides of
the fence is that my where I lean to that they probably have some form of DNA is that they are somewhat dismissing
people and we see that with Nations which is which is the same and just as good of an argument as yours saying well
they've not cleared other people who probably should be cleared in the eyes of the public right and so therefore it
makes me think that they don't have it I the DNA and and the the other reason why
I say that too though is is with the press conferences with talking with with the family members and
everybody's respect for these law enforcement officers and the respect that you could
you got to give it to them just when you hear the press conference how much they
care how much they're working towards this they seem like good officers and if they were able to clear guide that that
the society was trying to throw shade on I think they would do it you know 100% I
think they would come out and say 100% this person's not involved in the murder of these children I can't wait until
they do solve this thing because I think that the the full story that comes out about the investigation and the way that
they took this the directions that it's gone in whether they took it that direction or the investigation LED them
in that direction I I think the it it it will end up being a very interesting story from that aspect of this case and
I I think that like just like they have said we can't we can't tell you everything that we know one day we would
like to sit down and do that and where I say that I they don't have to show their
hand and I don't want them to and you question well it's not working it's not working working in the sense that we
know that they've not arrested the killer they've not arrested the bridge guy he's not sitting there waiting to go
to trial but where where in fact it that same tactic may be working is they may be Crossing people off their
list and the suspect pool is going to get shorter and shorter and shorter and smaller and smaller and smaller so it
may be working in some form and fashion that's just not obvious to us [Music] make sure you join us back here in the
garage tomorrow for part two until then be good be kind and don't [Music] litter
[Applause] [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
thought it was an Eco move few your worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service
instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than
just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today

Delphi Murders Revisited /// Part 1 /// 320

Part 1 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

This week we revisit a case we covered back in May of 2017. This case is now over two years old but it is far from cold. We will explain why as we give a complete rundown of both the timeline and the suspects. Beer of the Week - pFriem Pilsner by the pFriem Family Brewers Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

The full archive of True Crime Garage is available on the Stitcher listening app - for FREE. Our show “Off the Record” is only on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Delphi murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, detailing the investigation and suspects involved.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Welcome to True Crime Garage, your hosts are ready to dive into today's case.
Double Homicide Investigation. Two bodies identified as missing girls, now a homicide investigation.
Search for Missing Girls. The search for the missing girls intensifies as family and police get involved.
Libby's Recording. Police reveal that Libby recorded video and audio of the suspect, triggering over a thousand tips.
Reward Money Grows. By March 1st, the reward for information in the case reaches $200,000.
Sketch of the Suspect Released. A composite sketch of the murder suspect is released, described as a white male.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

We feel confident we're going to track him down.

Sheriff assuring the community about the investigation.

6:00WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.