Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 1 /// 322 | Forensic Files

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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] how can a case where they've told us so little be so big right this is just it
seems huge MH it seems really small on the outside when when you look into it and you're like oh well we have a a
couple seconds of a video clip of somebody walking on a bridge we have couple seconds of some guy talking
saying guys down the hill MH and then you look into it and you're like wow this is a huge huge case and part of
that has been I think a lot of a lot of it is due to speculation and we talked about this quite a bit before is right
now anytime some some guy does something super violent sexual in nature resulting
in Murder any of those different things we're seeing them being brought to the Forefront of being a possible suspect in
the deli murders case right and not just individuals that are arrested in Indiana
but a bay that's arrested that has ties to Indiana well one guy we talked about was Paul Eder okay now he is super
interesting for a million reasons but one thing that you and I keep keep going back to is DNA okay so early last week
what came out was that the sheriff states that the deli murder investigators have requested eder's
autopsy result results as well as his DNA okay so this guy was 55 years old he's dead he committed suicide after a
standoff with police police where he was in this standoff with police because he had he had
attacked a woman he abducted her while she was changing a tire on the side of the road in Tippy Canoe County which is
not terribly far from Deli well she actually didn't she actually like break down right by his house yeah something
the way that the the story works that that I read anyway was that he she broke down on the side of the road right in
front of his property very early in the morning like at like 4:30 in the morning
yeah he offers to help her and she's she's kind of creeped out by this dude so she decides you know I don't
need any help and just continues on well right and we but we make some leaps here
like one of the things that I've heard was okay well this Eder guy creeped out his victim and that we we know that Abby
and Libby were creeped out enough to take pictures of the guy Bridge guy and so so some people make that leap that
this girl felt the same thing that Libyan Abby felt mhm he ends up following her and abducting this woman
eventually he lets her go after rape and sexual assault and then the police catch up
with Paul Eder because he's driving around in a stolen vehicle yeah after this standoff he commits suicide and now
we find out that the sheriff's they're saying that the investigators requested his autopsy results and his DNA and
we've seen DNA requests before and we've we've talked about this before but to me
this really solidifies for me what I believe there to be DNA and you say well Nick why are they even questioning why
are you Nick Colonel Captain why are you garage idiots questioning the DNA well we're questioning the DNA because in the
beginning the investigators made it sound as if they had it and then at some point that went away from their their
press releases and from their what their words that they were choosing to use to
the public it just disappeared and so then you have to question is there something wrong with the DNA or did they
not have it or did they speak did they speak out before they knew if they were going to have it or not yeah and one of
the statements that they made again that makes me question it or I think would make anybody question it is the idea
that they say look we're not going to clear anybody we're not going to do that we're going to call it check or or
they've been we've gone over that person he's been checked yeah we're not going to say that they've been cleared until
somebody's arrested and somebody's convicted and then the next statement is if they are convicted right meaning that
this um law enforcement officer believes that they might one day arrest somebody
but might not be able to get a conviction that's what it makes it seem now they might just be playing it safe
and that's fine and I understand that but if they're not playing it safe and that statement is a true statement that
makes you question if they have DNA because if you have somebody that you arrest for the crime you have DNA plus
you have other evidence why wouldn't this be a slam dunk well and then one thing too is we discussed the reasons
why you would ask someone to submit their DNA even if you did not have this you're doing it as a scare tactic as a
way to see if this suspect will squirm right and and immediately become uncooperative in your questions and in
your investigation and then you go well we should be checking into this guy further because he doesn't want to seem
to help us with this double homicide of of two children I mean yeah you can be guilty of a lot of bad things but
nothing as bad as this so you you you would think persons would comply and offer their assistance at the very at
least to just get their name off of this investigation well you see this similarly with um asking people to take
a lie detector we know that we can't use that in a court of law but we're going to use it to kind of see how you play
play out this hand right and so the thing though that really kind of I'm really going the way of yes they have
DNA and I I've always kind of been that way on this on this case but I feel like
the longer that we look into it the stronger my feeling is and my the higher my confidence level gets that they do
have DNA and so it just doesn't make any sense to me when people I I I'm leaning your way I I have
some reservations about it but at the end of the day it's like why would they keep bringing up the idea that they're
going to test individuals and even law enforcement kind of said look it would be they'd be very surprised
if if Eder is is connected in any way but is it just uh a statement that they're making to the public to let them
know we're doing everything in our power yeah well not only that you have you have the public saying this guy's a
suspect and if if the public considers him a suspect then law enforcement better as well at least to the point of
check into him like you said he's been checked and then move on to your next guy and I I think that's where the
argument comes in where people start to question if there's DNA because they're going oh there's been all these suspects
in the Public's eye right the police and investigators and FBI are saying we're checking into this guy that we've been
made aware of now because he's been arrested for something else and then we never hear anything as
far as the guy being cleared and like you pointed out that's for good reason they've already said early on that they
are not going to clear anyone whether they whether they get somebody's DNA and they compare it to what they have on
file the sample that was left at the crime scene and they might go well he's been checked he's been checked we know
they may know that that person did not do it but they're not going to say that publicly until as you said Captain
somebody is sitting in court and sitting through the court the the trial process
well let's break that down a little bit because that didn't make a lot of sense to me why why would you not state that
somebody's cleared if you cleared them and and one of the things that they were saying is that if you come out publicly
and say uh Logan for example you know the girls were found on Logan's property Logan was arrested on other charges if
they go through and check aliis and do some things they go okay well Logan is cleared and then it comes back that he's
not cleared and they arrest him and they go to trial that just the statement that
the law enforcement at one point cleared this individual that could be reasonable
doubt right that gives the jury Reasonable Doubt and so that makes a lot more sense and because then you're
fighting an uphill battle you're you're now saying well at one point we cleared this
individual but now no and and so if if at one point law enforcement said this person wasn't
involved that would like you said gives you probable cause to go well I uh or gives you Reasonable Doubt to go you
know if they weren't sure at one point how am I supposed to be sure well the the other thing that
really strengthens my belief that they do have DNA one I'm just going back to the beginning and realizing and knowing
and reminding myself that they said they had it at one point and I see that it's
disappeared from their narrative I'm fine with that and I get why I think that is and I think it's smart and I'll
get into that in just a second but the thing that really strengthens my belief that there is DNA here is they're
requesting it from a dead man and we know this to be true per per the news reports that were coming out last week
and on top of that the way that the the wording that they use when they state that is that they requested it shortly
after this guy committed suicide after Paul Eder killed himself so the thing the thing is it's no longer a scare
tactic if there's nobody to scare right it's just simply yeah collecting evidence at this point and so that
really strengthens it for me on that level and then I've recently viewed a a short interview where um Kim Riley one
of the officers one of the investigators with the state police he's not the on the local level he's on the state police
where he here's the thing with these with these with the investigators here they're all doing a very good job
they're they're trying to field and answer as many questions as possible they do have a let's say script or
narrative to try to stick to that they've all agreed upon but on occasion because they are being so transparent or
or at least with what what they're willing to share and availability to be in front of
the public and to answer questions on occasion you can catch a little bit of a slip where you're like oh I don't know
that they were supposed to say it like that or well think about all the emotions that they're carrying around
with them so in one in one of these little news Clips I saw Kim Riley stating you know basically he's being
asked if you have DNA or if you have so much evidence on this guy why hasn't there been an arrest
and he was saying well there there's we and he's trying to be hypothetical but you can tell in a way he's probably
talking about what's actually going on with the case he says you know well we might have a situation here where this
person has never done anything before and we just don't have any way of tracking him down or tracing this
individual right so that really that statement to me really makes me feel like the police at least believe that
they're working on a suspect that bridge guy has not been convicted of anything where he would have his DNA profile
already submitted to cotus and then when when he goes further to say wouldn't have anything to track no way to trace
this individual that also makes me wonder if they have fingerprints as well but they're just not in the system that
we do have stuff we just we need to find the right guy the right person bring him
forward and and have his fingerprints and or DNA to compare this to and so I I feel good that I think
that it's there I think the reason why you go back and you go back and you go oh [ __ ] we talked about DNA let's kind
of just drop that from the story and not bring it up again because and then there's other times where we have
somebody like Daniel Nations who says I submitted my DNA and you never hear from
police saying that they that yeah we asked him to do so or he did submit it anything like that they just say he's
somebody we're not really that interested in I think the other thing if you do in fact have DNA or as some guys
up in the Amy mahalic case like to say bait in the net I always thought that was a strange way to word it but if you
do in fact have DNA you might want to drop that from The Narrative just for the fact that you
want this guy to slip up wait why why do you find that weird bait baiting the net
I just saw so when when uh the investigator at Water Town right I mean they're they're
by water right but what I mean by that is when they're asked if they have DNA um most of the time their answer is well
we have bait in the net rather than just giving you a a clear General right clear
General understanding sometimes they've given a better answer than that but but for a while they were sticking to that
bait in the net kind of thing which is fine um anyway what I was getting at though
Captain is here you have a situation where if you do have DNA of this guy and he is not in the system he has not
committed any offenses that he's been caught for to the point where he would be in the system now you're going you
know what let's drop that from The Narrative because we wouldn't mind terribly if he goes out and commits an
offense and gets caught for it right I mean we're nobody saying nobody suggesting hey go out and and murder
somebody so we can catch this guy what we're what we're you're hoping for is could he get picked up for a DUI could
he could he do something dumb you know anything that would warrant a felony arrest from my understanding in Indiana
now you were forced to submit your DNA so you get this guy driving drunk home from from from a bar one night you might
end up catching your guy but let's be clear about that so every state is different but in the state of Indiana if
you are arrested with something that you can be charged a felony for you don't have to actually be charged you don't
have to actually go through the process and and be found guilty but when you're arrested they'll swab your DNA and
they're going to take your fingerprints and all that Stu that's how they enter you into the system yeah and I and I
think you were saying that that didn't pass until 2017 and and then they don't implement it until 201 18 or whatever
that yes that's my understanding of of the way that it's going down in Indiana and as you said it gets difficult for us
to remember there's 50 states and they're all kind of doing that stuff a little different from from state to
state here's the other thing though Paul Eder is in fact we we know that they went after his DNA according to the
words that they chose to use it made it sound like it was shortly after he killed himself so now we're looking at a
month ago you would think if he is the guy he's not alive for you to even bother talking to him right I feel like
trying to gather more information that's true just because we've not heard does not mean he's not the guy but do you
think he makes a good suspect because the initial the the thing I jump to immediately is yes Paul Eder is a a
horrible individual uh he abducted and raped a woman but he let her go we're looking
for a killer not a not necessarily just a rapist and we don't know the the Mounds of
possibilities are are endless and and and that gets a little um it can make everything convoluted
but I think what we we have here is an individual that possibly could look like Bridge guy I mean we're only seeing just
like a head shot of this individual but you go okay here's this guy that has uh committed crimes before violent crimes
sexual in nature is it possible that he he did this uh double murder and then uh
kind of went on a spree if if if you will that or or had a you know weird Universe uh the universe puts um for
lack of a better word prey right by his house and the early morning he attacks her for whatever reason maybe he knows
that this has gone too far we've seen this with other Killers with other attackers where they uh where afterwards
they'll say I'm never doing this again or or they take their own life maybe he knew is's going to take his own life and
for whatever reason it's like okay I did this double murder that's been on my mind now I did this this basically
torture is what it was um the sexual assault rape torture I'm going to take my own life
and maybe that's why he let her go and and then he takes his own life I mean I mean I understand that there's a 5 hour
stand off but we we can't know for sure what was going through this guy's head but it that's a possibility so when
people say well he let this other uh victim go and he didn't let you know that that rules them out in so
people so many people's mind I'm like I don't think that rules out anything because we don't know what's going on in
this sick individual's mind right I agree I I but I tend to lean toward I I don't know that I'd make
him the top suspect partly in part just because he did let that future victim go
and from the way I'm I'm viewing this thing it looks to me like he may have got away with that and I hate to say
this out loud he may have got away with that whole attack and rape if he had not
let her go and it's just the well and the other thing that makes me question it too is is his age well and that's
what I wonder because he had to have some knowledge that she had knowledge of where he was from and maybe she didn't
know that area that well but where she broke down and so by letting her go it's almost like you're setting free the
person that is going to basically be your downfall and the reason why you get captured but again if your vehicle
breaks down in front of this guy's house and he comes walking out or in front of
his property and he he very clearly comes walking out and you go well he must have lived there I mean that's
probably the first thing you're going to say you might not know the the numerical
of the address that that you broke down in front of but you're going to go hey I
was on on u i such and such street last week I had the note I had the street name in my notes but yeah you could go I
was right around this area on such and such street guy comes out of his house 4:00 in the morning yeah and um and then
you can identify the guy and what's interesting to me about the whole connection with with Eder is um he kind
of has a bulbous nose would you say it's bulbous yeah and I've actually guess well and I'm I'm using that term
uh uh for in this case because I've actually seen several videos where they're doing new profiles of Bridgeman
and they start talking about that he has a a characteristic that we haven't noticed in the past and I've actually
seen this from at least two individuals where they're saying he has a char character that we didn't notice but now
we notice he has a bulbous nose mhm and I wonder if that is these online armchair
detectives if this is their way of them Shifting The Narrative okay well we have
this guy in custody is he a perfect match for a bridge guy no uh like you said logically he
attacks one uh attacks two individuals kills them lets another one go that doesn't seem to line up
really but um he's he's 55 and yeah which would be past the actual age range that they they gave us right from yeah
from the most recent press conference the the big one that kind of blew everything up in
April they're saying 18 to 40 is the age that they believe that they're looking for and so even you know even two years
ago Paul Eder would have been 53 now I am sitting here looking at a mug shot of his from
2012 I'm not I don't have a full understanding of what his charge would have been back then but it appears to be
a mug shot from 2012 right so seven years ago he would have been 48 I will I will say this about Paul he could
probably now mind you this is a very small sample size he's bald if he had hair it would help a bit more but I I
could maybe see him passing for 43 in this picture and he would be about 48 so he does look younger or appear younger
than what he is which that's also part of what they said in their release that we're looking for someone probably
between the ages of 18 and 40 who may appear younger than their actual age right but the tricky thing here though
is didn't they also claim in this description that that that the perpetrator Bridge guy had you know kind
of a reddish hair well in the first sketch yes the first sketch that was released it
appears to be reddish hair I what were they saying about the second sketch did they give a hair color for that one as
well I thought that's the one that they said reddish okay and so that that makes
me question I mean when people still bring up Logan because the girls were found on Logan's property again clearly
Logan has gray hair clearly Eder has you know salt and pepper hair I would say but leaning more gray so I don't know uh
un unless that I I have some issues and I think anybody should have issues with the idea that you have a you
have two sketches that they claim were happen at the same time they went with one over the other they look like two
different individuals to me I'm having a real hard hard time the more um we dive
into this case I'm having a hard time actually believing any of this as far as eyewitnesses go well I think I think
somebody that's still of very big interest to me is Thomas Bruce who is thankfully in jail
waiting on something to happen with his current case right where he is facing a murder charge and sexual assault and
rape charges he's the one that went into the Catholic supply store for and ordered the women to the
back of the the the establishment right and attacked and assaulted and killed one of them there the way that this
thing goes down and I can't remember I know we went through his timeline somewhat but he left the store at one
point under the guise of going out to get a credit card from his car which he turns and I I'm assuming that's when he
went out and got the gun from his vehicle and this guy is weird too because again the age is wrong with him
the the difference between him and Paul Eder is we know Thomas Bruce to be a killer the thing that also I find
fascinating about Thomas Bruce is it doesn't appear that he's been in any kind of trouble before this strange
attack right that results in the murder and I don't know I I'm I'm not saying that Thomas Bruce is the guy I'm just
saying on the on the outside looking in he looks a little more like the guy to me in a sense that it seems like he
committed a crime of opportunity that maybe when he did enter that store the first time I mean look we
know he left the store and came back so there was something in his plan that he needed from the vehicle or or something
that he needed to readjust before he carried out the attack or he wasn't 100% planning on attacking the place when he
first walked in there yeah how many individuals were in there I think it was three women were in there and and again
so logic would tell you okay well so Eder attacks a single female and then obviously liby and Abby
being two females but in this other case with Bruce then you go well he he had no
problem going hey there three people I can control this in his brain right and so that's the same scenario as Libby and
Abby so you're out in a park you see these two girls walking and you think that's an opportunity and I I really
think that that narrows down the individual quite a bit because there's a lot of individuals that they're not
going to try to control two two victims they're not going to try to to tell most
of these perpetrators that's too big of a situation MH and so you know logic would tell you that that's a good match
yeah and the other thing too is Thomas Bruce was even let's say he did not plan on attacking those women at the Catholic
supply store until after he went in there the first time he obviously was prepared to do
something like that in some form or fashion even just the point where he needed to go out to his vehicle and get
something possibly and that's what I think he I think think this dude had a had a kill
kit rape kit in his vehicle yeah and he saw an opportunity or maybe he was planning on maybe he was
watching and casing the place and saw his opportunity and right but he goes and retrieves the kill kit rape kit from
from the vehicle right again same type of thing though is you don't know who's going to be on the trails you don't know
who's going to be at the park that day but you just bring the stuff with you but you were prepared to do something if
if an opportunity presented itself right which again same as the first [Music] attack this show is sponsored by better
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so let's talk about the suspect's age one thing that I find and the sketches as well so one thing that I find
completely fascinating like like you were saying when you see these two sketches they're completely different
from one another and and that's frustrating as hell right in a whole bunch of ways
they're completely different from one another and then we have the statement of the suspect we believe we're looking
for a guy between the ages of 18 and 40 who may appear younger than what he is well what's the population on people 18
to 40 I mean that's a that's 22 years that we're spanning and then Okay so we've been told that those sketches both
sketches were developed by eyewitnesses that saw a man matching that description
whether it be sketch a or sketch B that day near the bridge or on the trails that day right so again it's it's it's
weird we have two completely different sketches and then on top of that here's here's one thing that I really wonder
about the age range here because you should be able to look at somebody's face if you're going to describe them to
the point where somebody can draw a sketch you should be able to answer the question of does he look 18 or does he
look 40 rather than I couldn't decide if it was 18 could have been as late as 40
what I wonder here is because we have the two sketches and they're two so different from one
another are they not ruling out the possibility of either sketch being correct and and police are
thinking that he looks younger in one sketch than he does in the other and therefore now we have a a a
range of 20 to 22 years for the possibility well see I just wonder at first um based off of
eyewitness based off of the video footage that they had if they just went you know what this this eyewitness gave
us this this um drawing we were able to look at that drawing look at bridg man look at the the video footage that we
have cuz we're assuming that they have more video footage the rumor is they have a lot more footage um I could not
get that confir I have a weird situation where I do have a contact that actually
worked the case I can't get into to that too much uh but some of the information
that I have have passed along to them just to see if they can confirm or deny uh
sometimes I don't want to I don't know how to say this but I I think sometimes it's almost like if they can confirm it
like they just won't um not they're not trying to be jerks or anything but it's it's so it's almost like uh you know
like oh I heard they have a lot more footage can you confirm or deny that and then it's like no answers but it's
really like basically they're confirming what I'm saying so I think they have a lot more footage um than than what
they're leading on to believe and so what what if it's just this simple I saw this guy on the bridge okay he looks
like this okay we do a drawing that drawing kind of looks like Bridge guy kind of looks like this grainy video
footage we have of the individual you get the next eyewitness they give you a whole different person you kind of
compare that with Bridge guy your gut feeling tells you no you that's why you went with the first
drawing my argument is that we have all these people coming forward or not all these people but we have a handful of
people saying well we saw these this guy on on the path that doesn't mean that they actually saw the killer they just
saw a guy on the path right and that's what I can't get over because I believe this
uh where he took them to to go down by roughly by that service road keep going down cross the
river I think that was all by Design and I think it's more than likely it was either to take them to a more
remote situation but even if that was the case and there was no vehicle down there I
either think he was trying to take them to a remote situation and that's where his getaway
was or it was let me take him to this remote situation and then whatever happens happens but then when I'm
leaving I think this individual knew that area so well that they didn't have to leave back on that
path so then I question are these are these eyewitness accounts even of the murderer well we don't know what we do
know is that they tell us that the what we're seeing in the video the the man in
the video bridg man is is the Killer and then we're getting these two sketches of people that were seen in the
area on the paths and the the sketches to me are fascinating in the sense of thinking
about it this way as well so let's assume in this situation right you would assume that you would have one
person that you wouldn't know who they are that's the killer the Killer is not going to come forward and say well that
was me on the path there that day we find that highly unlikely okay not that it would never happen but we know it
probably has not happened to this point but it let's say both of these people and multiple people that offered
up this this person that they claimed to have seen that day if we're to believe all of them then
we have two persons at least two people that don't look anything like each other so I'm
going to go ahead and say two people right that are unknown to us at this time when we should only have
one and so then you and I were talking about this and you brought up a good point and I countered it with a with
another good point you said well then it also make now that makes me wonder how many other people
you have that you're that are unknown to you yeah it's not like you walk into the
park and you check in you know or there there's some like camera that you have to go by and then
we can go well we know that there was 100 people there that day and and 98 of them are accounted for or 99 of them are
accounted for one thing I question in this though is there a chance that we that there's a person that's been made
up that there dive into that further so what I mean by that is where where we're
sitting here going okay if both of these sketches are correct then we have two people that have not come forward two
people that are unknown to us right mhm and then you brought up the good point that well if you got two then maybe you
have more and I I agree with that possibility as well I also think about the idea of maybe we don't have two
people that were there what if one of these people is just a bad description of of a person that's already come
forward right what what if for whatever reason somebody look they had the best of intentions they're trying to help
they're misremembering and they're describing somebody that did they didn't really see they saw somebody else
instead or it's a mashup of multiple people that they saw that day right and we we also don't know when we're getting
these reports and so what we do know at one point you know the we we know okay correct me if I'm wrong but we do know
that that the father was there looking for the girls yeah Derrik was there we know he was there because he he was in
charge of picking them up that day and I I could see you know somebody giving a bad
description and saying that bridge guy kind of looks like him kind of see that I I think uh the grandfather looks more
like Bridge guy number one the drawing again is are there are these people searching are they asking for
eyewitnesses did somebody come forward a week later and say yeah I saw this guy and give you a a bad description and all
they saw was um you know Derek looking for the girls from my understanding both of those sketches and I'm just going off
of words that and mind you they're choosing their words very carefully mhm but from press conferences and from
interviews that police and investigators and State Police have done with with the
public and the media those two sketches from everything I've seen were developed within 48 Hours
of the girls going missing right and and both were both they came up with both sketches because
they were eyewitness statements and and accounts and look you have what that there's like a meat packing place pretty
close by a lot of sex offenders there there's a lot of sex offenders in the area it it's very possible that somebody
was just taking a hike not doing anything bad uh but has a record or has a kind of a dark history that is just
not going to come forward I just don't see and again we don't know because it's not that that information hasn't been
put out there they're not saying that this eyewitness saw the person coming back through an entrance or exit so we
don't know where they actually saw this individual right well I mean the police probably know
right the police know I can't say for certain but the the things that I'm seeing reading
hearing is okay so we talked a little bit about the flannel shirt man the flannel shirtman is believed to be one
of the witnesses to seeing one of these individuals in the sketch and I believe I think the general
thought is that flannel shirman saw what he described to be the first sketch that
came out okay so the slight the the older looking of the two in my opinion and the thing is the way that
this has been described is that this Man based off of his timeline would have seen Bridge guy on the trail on the 501
trail walking away from the moan and high bridge and he's believed it's believed
that bridge guy was leaving at that time leaving the area in the process of doing
such so we know from Derek's statements as well Derek saw the flannel shirtman when he arrived around 315 to pick up
his daughter so that that would put flannel shirman and Derek at the intersecting
trails at 505 and 501 around 34 14 3:15 p.m. now flannel shirk guy is going to say that he saw Bridge guy around the
same time MH but he also saw Derek so we we have a general marker and place marker for where Bridge guy may have
been around three let's back it up and say 310 to maybe 320 and the the thing that I would love
to see the most in this guy's statement in flannel shirt guys statement is is it police saying that bridg guy was
leaving at that time just basing everything off of the known facts of the case in in their
timeline or was that that dude's statement he was leaving why would he know if the guy's coming or going or
anything different M that seems a little strange to me I would love to know if that's if that's flannel shirt guys
words or if that's the investigator's words because that would be about the time he should be leaving right we know
they were alive and well at 207 and then we have statements from the family saying that around 3:30 or
so the phone was going straight the voicemail it wasn't even ringing anymore the thing is we have a very a
very small window things happened very fast that day once they started going wrong right we're talking th this attack
and murder and everything happened between 207 and 3:30 and you can even Whittle that
down faster if you believe some of the other known statements right so let's go through this real quick 207 that picture
is taken there's no Bridge guy on the bridge at that time they say that it would take 7 minutes for somebody to
walk that bridge now that's if you're walking you're very mindful of your steps you're you're you're watching your
steps as you go along you're being very safe cautious I actually think bridg guy
moved a lot faster than that wasn't so cautious I think that's what probably alerted the girls that this dude is
weird that he's something is up right or scary right I think they look back on the bridge and all of a sudden this
guy's on the bridge and he's moving he's moving at a good Pace he's not running you can't run on that bridge but he's
moving at a good pace and not only is he moving at a good Pace he's he's watching
his steps and he's turning and he's checking behind him every now and then to make sure nobody is behind him
nobody's behind him they're and they're thinking yeah what should this guy care if nobody's behind him and why is he
moving so fast well again so he doesn't want to be seen so then I then I question
because did he try to make the girls cross the water or or did they actually make a run for it you know uh I heard
somebody say that they think that it was his idea for them to cross but that's probably where he lost control of them
and that's why they you know he took their lives on the other side but you know we don't know the
details of how he took their lives other than they we believe there was a weapon
involved so we know that but then we also know that there's a a very good possibility right what was at least 100%
chance that he was wet on some level and so again he would he would have to be at
some point that day he he he was in the water right and that's again what makes me believe that he didn't
backtrack okay now this is done let me get back on that main trail uh I know I don't know those
trails that unless he had to you know what I mean I I get what you're saying I I'm fully with you the bridge right so
it when I look at this thing if you were going to try to plan this out and make it go down without any problems at all
here's how it goes down you you see them a little bit after 207 and and this is the thing you would
actually go down Trail 505 the Less Traveled Trail the 501 leads to the mo and high bridge okay but
on the 505 when you walk down there and you get Creek Side I'm wondering if there's a spot down there because what
happens is picture a v right that the trails start off together and they don't when I say intersecting it's not an X
it's more of a of a thin V where one goes off to to one side a little bit but you're basically walking these trails
and and a friend of yours could walk on the other and and and really you just have a small tree line separating you
for a while and then it extends it extends it extends and you get a little further and further from one another but
what I'm getting at is somebody could sit there could post up on the 505 down there near the creek and you
could spot people coming I'm guessing because I've never been there but I would think that you might be able to
see people approaching the bridge from your Viewpoint and if you see what you think
to be your possible victims mhm there it's just two people there's nobody else with them and there's nobody else around
or on the bridge at that time that's when you you don't have to go back out to that main trail you could cut across
and really you're going to end up right at the front of the bridge and so at 207 they're
fine let this guy didn't take seven minutes to move across that bridge he moved across that bridge in in
five or four he he was faster he was moving faster than if somebody was watching their steps mhm he scooted
across that bridge that puts us at 12 after two and then he is if we're to believe that the eyewitness statement is
correct and it is in fact Bridge guy then that puts him back at that intersection of the trail an hour one
hour later so a lot of things have happened during that time and I'm with you though Captain if you were to plan
this thing out perfectly once you see them get to the other side of the bridge they're completely compromised now you
go well all most likely anybody that could help them or anybody could that could view what I'm doing they're on the
back they're on this other side of the bridge right the girls are on the opposite side of the bridge that's where
I'm going to get them that's where I'm going to take control if you I mean you just watch the words and you you map out
a quick little location of where they were found you can see down the hill across this little uh driveway that that
actually looks like a road and then it's down the hill more across the creek and
then they're found right there both of their bodies are found right there if you were to plan this out perfectly you
probably would have parked your vehicle in the graveyard where there are little roads that go back by the trees you
could have put your vehicle over there and after killing them you could have walked through the woods up to the
graveyard never going on a trail again mhm the only Trail you have anywhere near you on that opposite side of Deer
Creek are the horse trails for Ron Logan's Farm but those aren't those are horse trails they're not traveled by the
the people that are visiting the bridge or the park so that would be if if you wanted to to not be seen after the
attack that would be your where you would really want to park your car now the issue could be though he he didn't
know that he didn't know exactly where he was going to do this attack or exactly how it was going to go down and
maybe his vehicle was left elsewhere beforehand MH and one thought is the the vehicle that was parked at the abandoned
building which that would have required him to go back up that trail and in the opposite way you would probably try to
walk off the trail as much as possible but at some point you might have to pop back onto that that trail well it's
getting hard to kind of visualize some of this stuff because like the entrance where the girls were dropped off at I
believe they have like a new gate there so that looks different than the day of of the murders and then where the
abandoned car was there's no aband or well where the car was by the abandoned building there's no abandoned building
anymore so uh um but it kind of looks like a little Service Road in between like a
highway where that car would be parked and then it would be facing depending on where you're parking you'd be looking
right at the freedom Bridge yeah so you have yeah you have the what was that Highway
25 is right there on your on to your left here's an interesting thing to think of though too okay so if that was
his car at the parked at the abandoned building he would have had to walk back up the 50 the 501 Trail the the most
heavily traveled Trail and make his way up that way most likely I'm sure there's probably ways to
do that but keep in mind you have the mir's farm a lot of this property right here are the is belongs to the Mir
family or mir's family and remember you you mentioned that Mike Patty looks something like the bridge guy in your
opinion he he might not have been able to been mistaken for bridge guy because given
the timeline we have he would not have been at the park or near the bridge at the time that the witness saw Bridge
guy but their statement in the press conference from 422 of this year their exact words police were we are seeking
The public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old
CPS DCS welfare building in the city of Deli that was abandoned on the east side
of County Road 300 North next to the hoer Harland Highway that's also Highway 25 between the hours of noon to 5 on
February 14th 2017 and then it says in this presser uh note it has been updated that date was misspoken it should have
been February 13th which was the day the girls went missing so this CPS DCS welfare building was a um like a like a
child support building at one time right and so it was like a government city building but it was abandoned at the
time on February 13 2017 they're asking for the driver of a vehicle and well it makes you wonder are
they just going okay we we saw this vehicle nobody in it or saying hey uh we want to identify the driver of this
vehicle are they saying that there's a there was a driver in it at that time um I I don't know it's not clear
enough no right and so that changes the whole dynamic right we're looking for this driver that was
in the car that changes the whole dynamic right if you were parked there there or know who cuz they're saying the
driver if you were parked there or you know who was parked there it's like were you in the car yeah the car didn't kill
the girls they're they're looking for an individual well no but what I'm saying is that you know they're not saying
we're we're looking for the owner of the car no they're saying the driver of the
car right somebody put that car there somebody moved that car later right that's who they're looking for saying if
going on to say if you parked there or know who was parked there Polie contact the officers at the command post at the
deli city building but again that doesn't mean that that that is your killer but that's
a very quick way to go when you start going okay well where did he park because that's that's a really big
question that nobody usually gets to when they start talking about Deli in my opinion is this guy left some way he
left the area somehow he fled the area after the attack we don't know what time he got there we can assume I would
assume he probably arrived before the girls did he may have arrived long enough before where he was he's waiting
this thing out and looking for a victim I don't I don't feel like it's highly likely that he just arrives and
immediately spots a victim that doesn't seem likely to me there were other people there that
day he didn't choose some of them in my opinion right right well and I I think that's why if this is premeditated like
the sense that they this killer knew going in going to this park going to these trails that he's going to do this
you know the the service road by the bridge you know down the hill like like we said whether it's a driveway or
service Bridge or a service road or or well it's it's a road that becomes a a driveway to a residence right and then
but then there's also once you cross the water a little bit further down I believe there's some access there
further down I believe that if the person knew this Killer goes there knowing they're going to try to do this
that their truck or car is going to be parked somewhere there not so much at an entrance or at a
where people could see this individual that's my gut feeling oh yeah no I agree 100% with you that's
why I said he would have been parked in the the graveyard would be the would be the most likely spot I mean and the the
problem with parking so so where you would put your vehicle if you wanted to park
closest all right it would be the whole thing the whole thing's a crime scene right the whole place is a crime scene
from the minute he stepped on the ground to the moment he left every everything that his feet touched is a crime scene
however if you were to plan this out in great detail and everything go your way then ideally you would park you
would want your vehicle I believe to be as close to the ending point of your crime scene right than the beginning
point of your crime scene because you're going to if this is a messy murder there's any number of ways that
you can look different at the end of this crime than you would walking step stepping foot onto the crime scene for
the first time yeah you know we already talked about his jeans likely were wet he he went through the water at some
point that day we there's no question about that unless he unless this [ __ ] can hover he went through the water that
day okay that would make a good shirt and then on top of that he very likely could have had blood on his person or on
his belonging somewhere and either of those are giant red flags keep they were looking for
missing girls that day they weren't looking looking for murdered girls that day they were looking for missing girls
that day they weren't looking for a murder suspect that day he got away he fled pretty
undetected whether he was seen by the flannel shirt guy or not he fled pretty undetected so if if you were to map this
thing out and carry it out the exact way that you would want to ideally you want
to put your vehicle as close to the ending point of the crime and the crimes in the crime scene as possible well
right and instead of just having it on a residential drive or or some other road
that that would stick out like a sore thumb but if you park at the at the graveyard right yeah if you park at the
here's the problem with that very spot you could park at the graveyard and be okay I would think the other the areas
that are as close to you as the graveyard mind you we're going from right where the bodies were found the
other areas that you could park that would be close to you at that point that's private property that that
belongs belongs to Ron Logan that belongs to the mir's family that seems quite a bit more risky
to me than parking at the graveyard yeah unless unless you know you know Logan's whereabouts or you
know the family but still again if you're going there with the idea that you're going to commit a
crime if you know these individuals you don't want them to be able to say oh yeah I saw I saw this guy's vehicle on
on my property that day I think the graveyard makes the most sense too because it's like there had to be some
other visitors right so it's not so suspicious if you have a car that's you know there's I can't see
anybody here well they might have parked and walked down to a grave and and and spending a little time at the grave I
mean the graveyard was it was it a working graveyard um it seems to be right I I I
I know what you mean I and I sorry for laughing there but I I do think that yes you that it's
still spots are available is what I think you mean by that and if you look at it on Google Map
there is a picture a uh rectangle okay and right off of the road I thought you going somewhere else with that the Ro
West 300 North M so if you look off of 300 North you have the graveyard right there on
one side of the road now the graveyard is lined out like a big rectangle which it has a a a drive you can drive in go
all the way to the back of the property and I believe at the tree line you can actually go across the tree line and
then then head back out the other way so you have two running roads or drives from 3 00 North that basically Encompass
this graveyard there's places to drive and what I'm getting at here too is you could you could drive a fair distance
away from the road and put your vehicle back by by the tree line and there's also a little Center Crossing uh section
as well that you can drive on now I don't know how the width of those if they're you know two lanes both ways or
if it's just a single Lane usually with the in a uh graveyard type setting usually it's just a single Lane to make
it easier for people to access different parts of the graveyard to to visit uh people but here's another really
interesting thought Captain we have an eyewitness several eyewitnesses actually saying that they saw an
individual who's not come forward we don't know who either of them are it could just be one person could be
two um I don't want to mix words here here I don't think that there's two killers I think there's one killer well
I think the cops would know that based off the the audio and video footage yeah and but here's the thing with there
being no vehicle description police love a vehicle description they would rather have a
vehicle description than a person description they love it it's easier to find the car it's easier to find the car
it's harder to harder to hide the car we don't have one here so I wonder a little bit did this guy arrive on foot
and leave on foot now it seems a little confusing maybe to people that are not from the area but if you do a type up
some some maps you know bring up any map and look at the maps and you you bring up some directions and you play around
with it one thing I found you could walk you actually the distance is shorter walking than it is driving because the
way that the roads are laid La out in this particular area so you could walk from the middle of the moanin High
Bridge M and you could be at East Main Street Deli and it's a 1.2 mile walk you would
have to go over the freedom bridge for the shortest route but that would be the direction that it's believed that bridge
guy if in fact he was the killer M but the the flannel shirtman says that he saw Bridge guy on the 501 Trail heading
toward the freedom bridge at about 310 to 320 somebody could walk that's crazy somebody could walk from the middle of
the moaning High Bridge to East Main Street Deli be be in Deli at 1.2 miles right so about 15 to
17 minutes yeah 15 to 20 minutes well let me tell you a little story to open up some possibilities I I
I'll make it quick so I I would intern for a long time as a recording engineer at this point like I I I didn't do a lot
of sessions I didn't I had knowledge of this stuff but I I I have never done it myself other than like maybe brining in
some of my buddies to record so they said uh my boss says to me hey there's a night session do you
want to do it and of course I was nervous and said no I don't really want to do it he goes well no I'm going to
set it up it's easy two microphones on this piano all you have to do is hit record
and stop the guy he's he's from Athens Ohio what that about an hour and a half away yeah roughly a drive mhm he's from
Athens he's a great kind of Jazzy bluesy piano player we had this great piano but
it wasn't tuned and we had some rattles in the lowend but the guy didn't really care it was this demo and so my boss was
giving him a discount because the piano wasn't working perfectly so we go and record three or
four tunes and after after two or three songs this gu is playing live he'd come back in and listen this guy's very
scruffy he has um a book bag with him in a guitar case you know that you would wear as book bag so I go out to make
some coffee and then I go out to my car and I realize he has no car there and I'm thinking well this is
strange so we we're almost done with the session and I see he has this guitar case so I unzip the guitar case CU I
just want to see what guitar he has in the bag right um I shouldn't have done that but
I did anyways there was a I see um a gun and at this point I'm freaked out of my
mind so in the session uh I I I I'm back in the day I had have to make a CD for him here you go take this with you and I
said uh somebody coming to get you uh and he said yeah so he he leaves pays I clean up the studio go to leave probably
5 minutes after him I start driving I don't see him anywhere around you you know remember the studio is really far
back mhm 5 minutes later I'm I'm driving Pro uh 33 and I see him walking this guy walked all the way from
Athens set up a recording session walked all the way from Athens played his songs took paid me
took the CD and started walking back mhm now I don't know if he was meeting somebody somewhere but he was walking on
the freeway my point of this long story was cuz one I I always think about that gun and how much how freaked out I
was but the point of the story is this individual could have walked from really far
away and I I hate to be the guy that to say there's so many possibilities but this guy booked a
session walked an hour and a half played five or six songs and then took off walking back it's not out of the realm
of possibilities well and not only that in this situation I'm I'm bringing this up for a couple different reasons one
East Main Street Deli one mile 1.2 miles from the bridge 15 20 minutes yeah so this guy I mean there's there's
plenty of houses over there this guy could have lived in a neighborhood near there and just walked home he could have
parked anywhere really within 1.2 miles of the bridge he could have parked in any of these neighborhoods that are a
mile and a half from the bridge yeah and so he doesn't necessarily have to be parked at the abandoned building or
parked in the graveyard or parked on Ron Logan's property he very likely could have been parked in an area that nobody
would found to have been suspicious at all because it's a a heavy heavily traveled area it's it's an area where
there's a lot of cars parked on the side of the road or he parks in a in a busy parking lot somewhere but you have to be
careful of those areas because if it's a busy parking lot then you have the possibility of being seen if you're
covered in blood mud or water right you know so I I get what you're saying and and and that's what's
so frustrating about this case though is as every time I'm I'm looking into it I
start feeling like I'm getting somewhere and then the doors of the possibility just are blown open and and I
wonder I I wonder if it's going to be another situation where if we don't hear anything in in 6 months to year if
they're going to have to keep putting out information that they know cuz they have to be getting a lot of leads I mean
this kid is highly covered on YouTube I mean there's seems like there's a million armchair detectives working on
this case like solely working on this case not like hey we covered this case and we moved on to another case the
following week like people that are just like that's all they're doing well and that's why I think it's important to
examine the possibilities and the reasons why this has not been [Music] solved you can live out your Master Chef dreams
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Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 1 /// 322

Part 1 of 2

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With so much left to discuss regarding the unsolved Delphi Murders case we decided to leave the mics on and go off the record. Join us as we wrap up our coverage of the Delphi Murders.

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Brief Summary

The episode analyzes the Delphi murders, focusing on suspect Paul Eder, DNA evidence, and conflicting eyewitness accounts.

Key points

Quality Sleep with Ashley. Ashley offers top mattress brands at winning prices, helping children in need.
Rosetta Stone's Game Changer. Learn 25 languages intuitively with Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons.
The Deli Murders Case. Speculation surrounds Paul Eder, a suspect linked to the deli murders.
The Age Dilemma. The suspect's age range is puzzling, spanning from 18 to 40 years. Eyewitness accounts seem inconsistent, leading to confusion about the actual age of the perpetrator.
Two Sketches, Two Suspects?. The existence of two different sketches raises questions about the accuracy of eyewitness descriptions. Could there be more than one suspect?
The Bridge Guy's Speed. The suspect moved across the bridge faster than expected, raising suspicions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Why wouldn't this be a slam dunk?

Questioning the lack of clarity in the investigation.

6:15WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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