Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 1 /// 322 | Forensic Files

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[Music] how can a case where they've told us so little be so big right this case is just
it seems huge it seems really small on the outside when you when you look into it and you're like oh well we have a
couple seconds of a video clip of somebody walking on a bridge we have a couple seconds of some guy talking
saying guys down the hill and then you look into it and you're like wow this is a huge huge case and part of
that has been I think a lot of a lot of it is due to speculation and we talked about this quite a bit before is right
now anytime some some guy does something super violent sexual nature resulting in
murder any of those different things we're seeing them being brought to the forefront of being a possible suspect in
the Delphi murders case Ryan not just individuals that are arrested in Indiana by Amy Bay that's arrested that has ties
to Indiana well one guy we talked about was Paul etter okay now he is super interesting for a million reasons but
one thing that you and I keep keep going back to is DNA okay so early last week what came out was
that the sheriff states that the Delphi murder investigators have requested editors autopsy results as well as his
DNA okay so this guy was 55 years old he's dead he committed suicide after a standoff with police where he was in the
standoff with police because he had he had attacked a woman he abducted her while she was changing a tire on the
side of the road in Tippecanoe County which was not terribly far from Delphi well she actually didn't she actually
like break down right by his house yeah something the way that the the story works that did I read anyway was
that he she broke down on the side of the road right in front of his property very early in the morning like at like
4:30 in the morning yeah he offers to help her and she's she's kind of creeped out by this dude
so she decides you know I don't need any help and just continues on well right and we but we make some leaps here like
what one of the things that I've heard was okay well this other guy creeped out his victim and that we we know that Abby
and Libby were creeped out enough to take pictures of the guy bridge guy and so some people make that leap that this
girl felt the same thing that Libyan a be felt hmm he ends up following her and abducting this woman eventually he
lets her go after a rape and sexual assault and then the police catch up with Paul at her because he's driving
around in a stolen vehicle yeah after this standoff he commits suicide and now we find out that the
sheriff's there saying that the investigators requested his autopsy results and his DNA and we've seen DNA
requests before and we've we've talked about this before but to me this really solidifies for me what I believe there
to be DNA and you say well Nick why are they even questioning why are you Nick colonel captain why are you garage
idiots questioning the DNA well we're questioning the DNA because in the beginning the investigators made it
sound as if they had it and then at some point that went away from there right there press releases and from there what
their words that they were choosing to use to the public it just disappeared and so then you have the question is
there something wrong with the DNA or did they not have it or did they speak did they speak out before they knew if
they were going to have it or not yeah and one of the statements that they made again that makes me question it where I
think would make any big question is the idea that they say look we're not gonna
clear anybody we're not gonna do that we're gonna call it chapter or they've been we've gone over that person he's
been checked yeah we're not gonna say that they've been cleared until somebody's arrested and somebody's
convicted and then the next statement is they are convicted right meaning that this law enforcement officer believes
that they might one day arrest somebody but might not be able to get a conviction that's what it makes it seem
now they might just be playing it safe and that's fine and I understand that but if they're not playing it safe in
that statement is a true statement that makes you question if they have DNA because if you have somebody that you
arrest for the crime you have DNA plus you have other evidence why wouldn't this be a slam-dunk well and then one
thing too is we discussed the reasons why you would ask someone to submit their DNA even if you did not have this
you're doing it as a scare tactic as a way to see if this suspect will squirm right and and immediately become
uncooperative in your questions and in your investigation and then you go well we should be checking into this guy
further because he doesn't want to seem to help us with this double homicide of two children I mean yeah you can be
guilty of a lot of bad things but nothing as bad as this so you you you would think persons would comply and
offer their assistance at the very least to just get their name off of this investigation well you see this summer
with asking people to take a lie detector we know that we can't use that in a court of law but we're gonna use it
to kind of see how you play play out this hand right and so the thing though that really kind of I'm really going the
way of yes they have DNA and I've always kind of been that way on this on this case but I feel like the longer that we
look into it the stronger my feeling is in my heart the higher my confidence level gets that they do have DNA and so
it just doesn't make any sense to me when people yeah I I I'm leaning your way I have some reservations about it
but at the end of the day it's like why would they keep bringing up the idea that they're gonna test individuals and
even law enforcement kind of said look it would be there'd be very surprised if the fetter
is is connected in any way but is it just a statement that they're making to the public to let them know we're doing
everything in our power yeah well not only that you have you have the public saying this guy's a suspect and if the
public considers him a suspect in law enforcement better as well at least to the point of check-in to him like you
said he's been checked and then move on to your next guy and I think that's where the argument comes in where people
start to question if there's DNA because they're going all there's been all these
suspects in the public's eye right the police and investigators and FBI are saying we're checking into this guy that
we've been made aware of now because he's been arrested for something else and then we never hear anything as far
as the guy being cleared and like you pointed out that's for good reason they've already said early on that they
are not going to clear anyone whether they whether they get somebody's DNA and they compare it to what they have on
Lyle the sample that was left at the crime scene and they might go he's been checked he's been checked we
know they may know that that person did not do it but they're not going to say that publicly until as you said captain
somebody is sitting in court and sitting through the court the the trial process
well let's break that down a little bit because that didn't make a lot of sense to me why why would you not state that
somebody's cleared if he cleared them and and one of the things that they were saying is that if you come out publicly
and say Logan for example you know the girls were found on Logan's property Logan was arrested on other charges if
they go through and check alibis and do some things they go okay well Logan is cleared and then it comes back that he's
not cleared and they arrest him and they go to trial that just the statement that
the law enforcement at one point cleared this individual that could be reasonable doubt right
that gives the jury reasonable doubt and so that makes a lot more sense and because then you're fighting uphill
battle you're now saying well at one point we cleared this individual but now no and and so if if at one point law
enforcement said this person wasn't involved that would like you said it gives you probable cause to go well I or
gives you a reasonable doubt to go you know if they weren't sure at one point how am I supposed to be sure well the
the other thing that really strengthens my belief that they do have DNA one I'm just going back to the beginning and
realizing and knowing and reminding myself that they said they had it at one point and I see that it's disappeared
from their narrative I'm fine with that and I get why I think that is and I think it's smart and I'll get into that
in just a second but the thing that really strengthens my belief that there is DNA here is they're requesting it
from a dead man and we know this to be true / / the news reports that we're coming out last week and on top of that
the way that the wording that they use when they state that is that they requested it shortly after this guy
committed suicide shortly after Paul letter killed himself so the thing the thing is it's no longer a scare tactic
if there's nobody to scare right it's just simply yeah collecting evidence at this point and so that really
strengthens it for me on that level and then I've recently viewed a short interview where Kim Riley one of the
officers one of the investigators with the State Police he's not on the local level he's on the State Police where he
here's the thing with these with these with the investigators here they're all doing a very good job they're they're
trying to field and answer as many questions as possible they do have a let's say script or a narrative to try
to stick to that they've all agreed upon but on occasion because they are being so transparent or at least with what
what they're willing to share and their availability to be in front of the public and to answer questions on
occasion you can catch a little bit of a slip where you're like I don't know that
they were supposed to say it like that or well them think about all the emotions that they're carrying around
yeah so in what in one of these little news clips I saw Kim Riley stating you know basically he's being asked if you
have DNA or if you have so much evidence on this guy why hasn't there been an arrest and he was saying well there's we
and he's trying to be hypothetical but you can tell in a way he's probably talking about what's actually going on
with the case he says you know well we might have a situation here where this person has never done anything before
and we just don't have any way of tracking him down or tracing this individual right so that really that
statement to me really makes me feel like the police at least believed that they're working on a suspect that bridge
guy has not been convicted of anything where he would have his DNA profile already submitted to CODIS and then when
when he goes further to say wouldn't have anything to track no way to trace this individual that also makes me
wonder if they have fingerprints as well but they're just not in the system that we do have stuff we just we need to
find the right guy the right person bring him forward and have his fingerprints and/or DNA to compare this
to and so I I feel good that I think that it's there I think the reason why you go
back and you go back and you go oh [ __ ] we talked about DNA let's kind of just
drop that from the story and not bring it up again because and then there's other times where we have somebody like
Daniel nations who says I submitted my DNA and you never hear from police saying that they did yeah we asked him
to do so or he did submit it anything like that they just say he's somebody were not real
that interested in I think the other thing if you do in fact have DNA or as some guys up in the ami Mahalo Vic case
like to say bait in the net I always thought that was a strange way to word it but if you do in fact have
DNA you might want to drop that from the narrative just for the fact that you want this guy to slip up now why do you
find that weird bathing than that I just saw so when when then business a lot at
Watertown right I mean they're there by water right but what I mean by that is when they're asked if they have DNA most
of the time their answer is well we have bait in the net rather than just giving
you a clear general right clear general understanding sometimes they've given a better answer than that but but for a
while they were sticking to that bait in the net kind of thing which is fine anyway what I was getting at though
captain is here you have a situation where if you do have DNA of this guy and he is not in the system he has not
committed any offenses that he's been caught for to the point where he would be in the system
now you're going you know what let's drop that from the narrative because we wouldn't mind terribly if he goes out
and commits an offense and gets caught for it right I mean we're nobody sitting nobody's suggesting hey go out and and
murder somebody so we can catch this guy why well what we're you're hoping for is
could he get picked up for a DUI could he could he do something dumb you know anything that would warrant a felony
arrest from my understanding in Indiana now you were forced to submit your DNA so driving drunk home from from from a
bar one night right right you might end up catching your guy but let's be clear about that so every state is different
but in the state of Indiana if you are arrested with something that you can be charged a felony for you don't have to
actually be charged you don't have to actually go through the process and be found guilty but when you're arrested
they'll swab your DNA and they're gonna take your fingerprints and all that that's how they enter you into the
system yeah and I you were saying that that didn't pass until 2017 and and then they don't
implement and until 2018 or whatever that yes that's my understanding of the way that it's going down in Indiana and
as you said it gets difficult for us to remember there's 50 states and they're all kind of doing that stuff a little
different from from state to state here's the other thing though Paulette ER is in fact we know that they went
after his DNA according to the words that they chose to use and made it sound like it was shortly after he killed
himself so now we're looking at a month ago you would think if he is the guy he's not alive for you to even bother
talking to him right I feel like he's trying to gather more information he's not the guy but do you think he makes a
good suspect because the initial did the thing I jumped to immediately is yes paw
letters a horrible individual he abducted and raped a woman but he let her go we're looking for a killer not a
not necessarily just a rapist and we don't know either the mounds of possibilities are endless in it and and
that gets a little it can make everything convoluted but I think what we we have here is individual that
possibly could look like bridge guy I mean we're only seeing just like a head shot of this individual but you go okay
here's this guy that has committed crimes before violent crimes sexual in nature is it possible that he he did
this double murder and then kind of went on a spree if you will that our or had a
you know weird universe the universe puts for lack of a better word prey right by his house and there or early
morning he attacks her for whatever reason maybe he knows that this has gone too far we've seen this with other
killers with other attackers where they were afterwards they'll say that I'm never doing this again or or they take
their own life maybe he knew he's gonna take his own life for whatever reason it's like okay I did
this double murder that's been on my mind now I did this at this a basically torture is what it was the sexual
assault rape torture I'm going to take my own life and maybe that's why he let her go and
then he takes his own life I mean I mean I understand that there's a five-hour standoff but we can't know for sure what
was going through this guy's head but it is it that's a possibility so when people say well he let this
other victim go and he didn't let you know that that rules them out and so people so many people's mind I'm like I
don't think that rules out anything because we don't know what's going on in this sick individuals mind right I agree
I I but I tend to lean toward I don't know that I'd make him the top suspect partly in part just because he did let
that future victim go and from the way I'm I'm viewing this thing it looks to me like he may have got away with that
and I hate to say this out loud he may have got away with that whole attacking rape if he had not let her go and yes
the well and the other thing that makes me question it too is again is his age one that's what I wonder because he had
to have some knowledge that she had knowledge of where he was from and maybe she didn't know that area that well but
where she broke down and so by letting her go it's almost like you're setting free the person that is going to
basically be your downfall and the reason why you get captured but again if your vehicle breaks down in front of
this guy's house and he comes walking out or in front of his property and he very clearly comes walking out and you
go oh he must have lived there I mean that's probably the first thing you're gonna say you might not know the the
numerical of the address that you broke down in front of but you're gonna go hey
I was on on I such-and-such yeah last week I had the note I had the street name in my notes but yeah you could go I
was right around this area on such-and-such Street guy comes out of his house four o'clock
in the morning yeah and AM and then you can identify the guy and what's interesting to me about the whole
connection with with editor is he kind of has a bulbous nose would you say it's bulbous yeah and I've actually yes well
and I'm using that term for in this case because I've actually seen several videos where they're doing new profiles
of bridge man and they start talking about that he has a characteristic that we haven't noticed in the past and I've
actually seen this from at least two individuals where they're saying it he has a character that we didn't notice
but now we notice he has a bulbous nose and I wonder if that is these online armchair detectives if this is their way
of them shifting the narrative okay well we have this guy in custody is he a perfect match for a bridge guy
no like you said logically he attacks one tax to individuals kills them let's another one go that doesn't seem
to line up really but he's he's 55 and which would be past the actual age range that they gave us right from yeah from
the most recent press conference the the big one that kind of blew everything up
in April they're saying 18 to 40 is the age that they believe that they're looking for and so even you know even
two years ago Paul at her would have been 53 now I am sitting here looking at a mug shot of his from 2012 I'm not I
don't have a full understanding of what his charge would have been back then but
it appears to be a mug shot from 2012 right so seven years ago he would have been 48 I will I will say this about
Paul he could probably now mind you this is a very small sample size he's bald if
he had hair would help quite a bit more but I I could maybe see him passing 443 in this
picture yeah and he would be about 48 so he does look younger or appear younger than what he is which that's also part
of what they said in their release that we're looking for someone probably between the ages of 18 and 40 who may
appear younger than their actual age brain but the tricky thing here though is didn't they also claim in this
description and that the perpetrator bridge guy had you know kind of a reddish hair well in the first sketch
yes the first sketch that was released it appears to be reddish hair I what were they saying about the second sketch
they get our color for that one I thought that's the one that they said reddish okay and so that that makes me
question I mean when people still bring up Logan because the girls were found on
Logan's property again clearly Logan has gray hair clearly better has a you know
salt-and-pepper hair I would say but leaning more gray so I don't know well unless that I have some issues and I
think anybody should have issues with the idea that you have us you have two sketches that they claimed were happen
at the same time that went with one over the other they look like two different individuals to me I'm having a real hard
time the more we dive into this case I'm having a hard time actually believe in any of this
as far as eyewitnesses go well I think I think somebody that's still of very big
interest to me is Thomas Bruce who is thankfully in jail waiting on something to happen with his current case right
where he is facing a murder charge and sexual assault and rape charges he's the one that went into the Catholic supply
store for and ordered the women to the back of the establishment right and attacked and assaulted and killed
one of them there the way that this thing goes down and I can't remember I know we went through his timeline
somewhat but he left the store at one point under the guise of going out to get a credit card from his car which he
returns and I I'm assuming that's when he went out and got the gun from his vehicle and this guy is weird too
because again the age is wrong with him that the difference between him and Paul
adder is we know Thomas Bruce to be a killer the thing that also I find fascinating about Thomas Bruce is it
doesn't appear that he's been in any kind of trouble before this strange attack right the results in the murder
and I don't know I'm I'm not saying that Thomas Bruce is the guy I'm just saying
on the on the outside looking in he looks a little more like the guy to me in a sense that it seems like he
committed a crime of opportunity that maybe when he did enter that store the first time I mean look we know he left
the store and came back so there was something in his plan that he needed from the vehicle or something that he
needed to readjust before he carried out the attack or he wasn't 100% planning on
attacking the place when he first walked in there yeah I mean individuals were in
there I think it was I can three women were in there and and again so logic would tell you okay well so at her
attacks a single female and then obviously Libyan Abby being two females but in this other case with Bruce then
you go well he he had no problem going hey there's three people I can control this in his brain right and so that's
the same scenario as Libyan Abby so you're out in a park you see these two girls walking and you think that's an
opportunity and I really think that that narrows down the individual quite a bit
because there's a lot of individuals that they're not going to try to control to to Victor
they're not gonna try to didn't tell it most of these perpetrators that's too big of a situation mm-hm and so you know
logic would tell you that that's a good match yeah and the other thing too is Thomas Bruce was even let's say he did
not plan on attacking those women at the Catholic supply store until after he went in there the first time he
obviously was prepared to do something like that in some former fashion even just to the point where he needed to go
out to his vehicle and get something possibly and that's what I think he I think think this dude had a had a kill
kit rape kit in his vehicle no and he saw an opportunity where maybe he was planning on maybe he was watching and
casing the place and saw his opportunity and right but he goes and retrieves a kill kit rape kit
from from the vehicle right again same type of thing though if you don't know who's gonna be on the trails you don't
know who's gonna be at the park that day but you just bring this stuff with you but you were prepared to do something to
if it's an opportunity presented itself right which again same as the first attack
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comm / garage zip recruiter the smartest way to hire [Music] so let's talk about the suspects age one
thing that I find and the sketches as well so one thing that I find completely fascinating like you were saying when
you see these two sketches they're completely different from one another and and that's frustrating Sal right in
a whole bunch of ways they're completely different from one another and then we have the statement of the suspect we
believe we're looking for a guy between the ages of 18 and 40 who may appear younger than what he is well what's the
population on people 18 to 40 I mean that's a that's 22 years that we're spanning and then okay so we've been
told that those sketches both sketches were developed by eyewitnesses that saw a man matching that description whether
it be sketch a or sketch B that day near the bridge or on the trails that day right so again it's it's it's weird that
we have two completely different sketches and then on top of that here's here's one thing that I really wonder
about the age range here because you should be able to look at somebody's face if you're going to describe them to
the point where somebody can draw a sketch you should be able to answer the question of does he look 18 or does he
look 40 rather than now I couldn't decide if it was 18 could have been as late as 40 what I wonder here is because
we have the two sketches and they're two so different from one another are they not ruling out the possibility
of either sketch being correct and and police are thinking mmm that he looks younger in one sketch than he does in
the other and therefore now we have a range of 20 to 22 years for the possibility well see I just wonder at
first based off eyewitness based off of the video footage that they had if they just went you know what this this
eyewitness gave us this this drawing we were able to look at that drawing look at bridge man look at the video footage
that we have because we're assuming that they have more video footage for the rumor is they have a lot
more footage I could not get that coming I have a weird situation where I do have
a contact that actually worked the case I can't get into that too much but some of the information that I have passed
along to them just to see if they can confirm or deny sometimes I don't want to I don't know how to say this but I
think sometimes it's almost like if they can confirm it like they just won't not
they're not trying to be jerks or anything but it's it's so it's almost like you know like oh I heard they have
a lot more footage can you confirm or deny that and then it's like no answers but it's really like basically they're
confirming what I'm saying so I think they have a lot more footage than than what they're leading on to believe and
so what what if it's just this simple I saw this guy on the bridge okay he looks
like this okay we do a drawing that drawing kind of looks like bridge guy kind of looks like this grainy video
footage we have of the individual you get the next eyewitness they give you a whole different person you kind of
compare that with bridge guy your gut feeling tells you know you that's why you went with the first drawing my
argument is that we have all these people coming forward or not all these people we have a handful of people
saying what we saw these this guy on the path that doesn't mean that they actually saw the killer they just saw a
guy on the path right and that's what I can't get over because I believe this where he took them to to go down by
roughly by that service road keep going down cross the river I think that was all by design and I think it's more than
likely it was either to take them to a more remote situation but even if that was the case
and there was no vehicle down there I either think he was trying to take them to a remote situation and that's
where his getaway was or it was let me take him to this remote situation and then whatever happens happens but then
when I'm leaving I think this individual knew that area so well that they didn't
have to leave back on that path so then I question are these are these eyewitness accounts even of the murderer
well we don't know what we do know is that they tell us that the what we're seeing in the video the the man in the
video Bridge man is is the killer and then we're getting these two sketches of people that were seen in the area on the
paths and the sketches to me are fascinating in the sense of thinking about it this way as well so let's
assume in this situation right you would assume that you would have one person that you wouldn't know who they are
that's the killer the killer is not going to come forward and say no that was me on the path there that day we
find that highly unlikely okay not that it would never happen but we know it probably has not happened to this point
but let's say both of these people and multiple people that offered up this this person that they claimed to have
seen that day if we're to believe all of them then we have two persons at least two people that don't look anything like
each other so I'm gonna go ahead and say two people right that are unknown to us
at this time when we should only have one and so then you and I were talking about this and you brought up a good
point and I countered it with a with a another good point you said well then it also made now that makes me wonder how
many other people you have that you're that are unknown to you yeah it's not like you walk into
parking you check-in you know or there's some like camera that you have to go by
and then we can go well will you know that there was a hundred people there that day and 98 of them were accounted
for 99 of them are accounted for one thing I question in this though is there a chance that we that there's a person
that's been made up that there they dive into that further so what I mean by that
is we're we're we're sitting here going okay if both of these sketches are correct and we have two people that have
not come forward two people that are unknown to us right and then you brought up the good point that well that if you
got to then maybe you have more and I agree with that possibility as well I also think about the idea of maybe we
don't have two people that were there what if one of these people is just a bad description of of a person that's
already come forward right what what if for whatever reason somebody look they had the best of intentions they're
trying to help their misremembering and they're describing somebody that they didn't really see they saw somebody else
instead or it's a mash-up of multiple people that they saw that day right and we we also don't know when working in
these reports and so what we do know at one point you know the we know okay correct me if I'm wrong but we do know
that that the father was there looking for the girls yeah Derek was there we know he was there because he was in
charge of picking them up that day and I could see you know somebody given a bad
description and saying that bridge guy kind of looks like him kind of see that I I think the grandfather looks more
like bridge guy number one the drawing again is are there are these people searching are they asking for
eyewitnesses did somebody come forward a week later and say yeah I saw this guy and give you a bad description and all
they saw was you know Derek looking for the girls from my understanding both of those sketches and I'm just going off of
words that in mind you they're choosing their words carefully but from press conferences and
from interviews that police and investigators and state police have done with with the public in the media
those two sketches from everything I've seen were developed within 48 hours of the girls going missing right
and in both were both they came up with both sketches because they were eyewitness statements and in accounts
and eat look you have was that there's like a meatpacking place pretty close by a lot of sex offenders there there's a
lot of sex offenders in the area it's very possible that somebody was just taking a hike not doing anything
bad but has a record or has a kind of a dark history that it's just not gonna come forward I just don't see and again
we don't know because it's not that that information hasn't been put out there they're not saying that this eyewitness
saw the person coming back through an entrance or exit so we don't know where they actually saw this individual right
well I mean probably no I'm right the police know I can't say for certain but the the things that I'm seeing reading
hearing is okay so we talked a little bit about the flannel shirt man the flannel shirt man is believed to be one
of the witnesses to seeing one of these individuals in the sketch and I believe I think the general thought is that
flannel shirt man saw what he described to be the first sketch that came out okay so the slight the the older-looking
of the two in my opinion and the thing is the way that this has been described is that this man based off of his
timeline would have seen bridge guy on the trail on the 501 trail walking away from the moanin High Bridge and he's
believed it's believed that bridge guy was leaving at that time leaving the area in the process of doing such
so we know from Derek's statements as well Derek saw the flannel shirt man when he arrived around 3:15 to pick up
his daughter so that that would put flannel shirt man and Derek at the intersecting trails at 505 and 501
around 3:14 3:15 p.m. now flannel shirt guy is going to say that he saw bridge guy around the same time mm-hmm
but he also saw Derek so we we have a general marker and place marker for where Bridge guy may have been around 3
let's back it up and say 310 - maybe 320 and the the thing that I would love to see the most in this guy statement and
flannel shirt guy's statement is is it police saying the bridge guy was leaving at that time just basing everything off
of the known facts of the case and in their timeline or was that that dudes statement he was leaving why would he
know if the guys coming or going or anything different that seems a little strange to me I would love to know if
that's if that's flannel shirt guy's words or if that's the investigators words because that would be about the
time he should be leaving right we know they were alive and well at 2:07 and then we have statements from the family
saying that around 3:30 or so the phone was going straight to voicemail wasn't even ringing anymore the thing is we
have a very very small window things happen very fast that day once they started going wrong right we're talking
the this attack and murder and everything happened between 207 and 3:30 and you can even Whittle that down
faster if you believe some of the other known statements right so let's go through this real quick
207 that pictures taken there's no bridge guy on the bridge at that time they say that it would take seven
minutes for somebody to walk that bridge now that's if you're walking you're very mindful of your
steps you're you're you're watching your steps as you go along you're being very
safe cautious I actually think bridge guy moved a lot faster than that wasn't so cautious I think that's what probably
alerted the girls that this dude is weird that he's something is up right or scary right I think they look back on
the bridge and all of a sudden this guy's on the bridge and he's moving he's moving at a good pace he's not running
you can't run on that bridge but he's moving at a good pace and not only is he moving at a good pace he's he's watching
his steps and he's turning and he's checking behind him every now and then to make sure nobody is behind him
nobody's behind him with their and they're thinking yeah what should this guy care if nobody's behind him and why
is he moving so a vast login so he doesn't want to be seen so then I then I question because did he try to make the
girls cross the water or or did they actually make a run for it you know I heard somebody say that they think that
it was his idea for them to cross but that's probably where he lost control of them and that's why they you know he
took their lives on the other side but you know we don't know the details of how he took their lives other than they
believed there was a weapon involved so we know that but then we also know that there's a very good possibility right
what almost at least a hundred percent chance that he was wet on some level and so again yeah he would have to be at
some point that day he he he was in the water right the and that's again what makes me believe that he didn't
backtrack okay now this is done let me get back on that main trail I know I don't know those trails that unless he
had to you know what I mean I I get what you're saying I'm fully with those of the bridge right so it when I look at
this thing if you were going to try to plan this out and make it go down without any problems at all
here's how it goes down you see them a little bit after 207 and this is the thing you would actually go
down trail 505 the less traveled trail the 501 leads to the moanin high bridge okay but on the 505 when you walk down
there and you get Creekside I'm wondering if there's a spot down there because what happens is picture of V
right the the trail start off together and they don't when I say intersecting it's not an X it's more of a thin V
where one goes off to to one side a little bit but you're basically walking these trails and a friend of yours could
walk on the other and and really you just have a small tree line separating you for a while and then it extends it
extends it extends and you get a little further and further from one another but
what I'm getting at is somebody could sit there could post up on the 505 down there near the creek and you could spot
people coming I'm guessing because I've never been there but I would think that you might be able to see people
approaching the bridge from your viewpoint and if you see what you think to be your possible victims hmm there is
just two people there's nobody else with them and there's nobody else around or on the bridge at that time that's when
you you don't have to go back out to that main trail you could cut across and really you're gonna end up right at the
front of the bridge and so at 2:07 they're fine but this guy didn't take seven minutes to move across that bridge
he moved across that bridge and in five or four he was faster he was moving faster than if somebody was watching
their steps mm-hmm he scooted across that bridge that puts us at 12 after two and then he
is if we're to believe that the eyewitness statement is correct and it is in fact the bridge guy then that puts
him back at that intersection of the trail and out one hour later so a lot of things have happened during that time
and I'm with you though captain if you were to plan this thing out perfectly once you see them get to the other side
of the bridge they're completely compromised now you go up well all up most likely anybody that could help them
or anybody could that could view what I'm doing there on the backs they're on this other side of the bridge right the
girls are on the opposite side of the bridge that's where I'm gonna get them that's where I'm gonna take control if
you I mean you just watch the words and you you map out a quick little location of where they were found you can see
down the hill across this little driveway that actually looks like a road and then it's down the hill more across
the creek and then they're found right there both of their bodies are found right there if you were to plan this out
perfectly you probably would have parked your vehicle in the graveyard where there are little roads that go back by
the trees you could have put your vehicle over there and after killing them you could have walked through the
woods up to the graveyard never going on a trail again the only trail you have anywhere near you on that opposite side
of Deer Creek are the horse trails for Ron Logan's farm but those aren't there's a horse trails they're not
traveled by the the people that are visiting the bridge or the park so that would be the fee if you wanted to to not
be seen after the attack that would be your where you would really want to park your car now the issue could be though
he didn't know that he didn't know exactly where he was going to do this attack or exactly how it was going to go
down and maybe his vehicle was left elsewhere beforehand and one thought is the the vehicle that was parked at the
abandoned building which that would have required him to go back up that trail and in the opposite way you would
probably try to walk off the trail as much as possible but at some point you might have to pop back on to that that
trail well getting hard to kind of visualize some of this stuff because like the entrance
where the girls were dropped off at I believe they have like a new gate there so that looks different than the day of
the murders and then where the abandoned car was there's no a band or where the car was by the abandoned building
there's no abandoned building anymore so but it kind of looks like a little service road in between like a highway
where that car would be parked and then it would be facing depending on where you were parking you'd be looking right
at the freedom bridge yeah so you have yeah you have the what was that highway 25 is right there on your on to your
left here's an interesting thing to think of though - okay so if that was his car at the parked at the abandoned
building he would have had to walk back up the 5 of the 501 trail the the most heavily traveled trail and make his way
up that way most likely I'm sure there's probably ways to do that but keep in mind you have the mirrors farm a lot of
this property right here are the is belongs to the Mir family or Mears family and remember you mentioned that
Mike Patti looks something like the bridge guy in your opinion he he might not have been able to been mistaken for
bridge guy because given the timeline we have he would not have been at the park
or near the bridge at the time that the witness saw bridge guy but their statement in the press conference from
for 22 of this year their exact words police where we are seeking the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle
that was parked at the old CPS / DC s welfare building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of
County Road 300 North next to the Hoosier Heartland highway that's also highway 25 between the hours of
noon to 5:00 on February 14th 2017 and then it says in this presser note it has been updated that date was misspoken it
should have been February 13th which was the day the girls went missing so this CPS DCs welfare building was a
like a like a child support building at one time right and so it was like a government city building but it was
abandoned at the time On February 13 2017 they're asking for the driver of a vehicle and what makes you wonder are
they just going okay we we saw this vehicle nobody in it or saying hey we want to identify the driver of this
vehicle are they saying that there's a there was a driver in it at that time I don't know it's not clear enough know it
right and so that changes the whole dynamic right we're looking for this driver that was in the car that changes
the whole dynamic right if you were parked there or no whose are saying the driver if you were parked there you know
who was parked there it's like were you in the well yeah the car didn't kill the
girls they're like they're looking for an individual no but what I'm saying is that you know they're not saying we're
looking for the owner of the car now they're saying the driver of the car right somebody put that car there
somebody move that car later right that's who they're looking for saying if going on to say if you parked there or
know who was parked there please contact the officers at the command post at the
Delphi City Building but again that doesn't mean that that that is your killer but that's a very quick way to go
when you start going okay well where did he park because that's that's a really big question that nobody usually gets to
when they start talking about Delphi in my opinion is this guy left some way he left the areas somehow he fled the area
after the attack we don't know what time he got there we could assume I would assume he probably
arrived before the girls did he may have arrived long enough before where he was
he's waiting this thing out and looking for a victim I don't I don't feel like it's highly likely that he just arrives
and immediately spots a victim that doesn't seem likely to me there were other people there that day he didn't
choose some of them in my opinion right right well and I I think that's why if this is premeditated like in the sense
that they this killer knew going and going to this part corner to these trails that he's going to do this you
know the the service road by the bridge you know down the hill like like we said
whether it's a driveway or service bridge or a service road or or well it's it's a road that becomes a driveway to a
residence right and then but then there's also once you cross the water a little bit further down I believe
there's some access there further down I believe it if the person knew this killer goes there knowing they're gonna
try to do this that their truck or car is gonna be parked somewhere they're not so much at an entrance or out of where
people could see this individual that's my gut feeling oh yeah no I agree 100% with you that's why I said he would have
been parked in the the graveyard would be the right right most likely spot I mean and the problem with parking so so
where you would put your vehicle if you wanted to park closest all right yeah well I like hole things the whole
thing's a crime scene right the whole place is a crime scene from the minute he stepped on the ground to the moment
he left yeah every everything that his feet touched is a crime scene however if you were to plan this out in great
detail and everything go your way then ideally you would Park you would want your vehicle I believe to be as close to
the ending point of your crime scene right then the beginning point of your crime
scene because you're going to if this is a messy murder there's any number of ways that you can look different at the
end of this crime then you would walking step stepping foot on to the crime scene
for the first time yeah you know we already talked about his genes likely were wet he went through the water at
some point that day we've there's no question about that unless he unless this [ __ ] can hover he went through
the water that day okay that would make a good shirt and then on top of that he very likely could have had blood on his
person or on his belonging somewhere hmm and either those are giant red flags keep him they were looking for missing
girls that day they weren't looking for murdered girls that day they were looking for missing girls that day they
weren't looking for a murder suspect that day he got away he fled pretty undetected whether he was seen by the
flannel shirt guy or not he fled pretty undetected so if you were to map this thing out and carry it out the exact way
that you would want to ideally you want to put your vehicle as close to the ending point of the crime and the crimes
in the crime scene as possible well right and instead of just having it on a residential Drive all right or some
other road that that would stick out like a sore thumb but if you park at the at the graveyard right yeah if you park
at the here's the problem with that very spot you could park at the graveyard and
be okay I would think the other the areas that are as close to you as the graveyard mind you we're going from
white where the bodies were found the other areas that you could park that would be close to you at that point
that's private property that belongs belongs to Ron Logan that belongs to the Mears family that seems quite a bit more
risky to me than parking at the graveyard yeah unless unless you know you know Logan's whereabouts
or you know the family but still again if you're going there with the idea that you're gonna commit a crime if you know
these individuals you don't want them to be able to say oh yeah I saw I saw this
guy's vehicle on my property that day I think the graveyard makes the most sense
too because it's like there had to be some other visitors right so it's not so suspicious if you have a car that's you
know I can't see anybody here oh they might apart and walk down to a grave and and and spending a little time at the
grave well I mean the graveyard was was it a working graveyard it seems to be right i i i I know what you mean I I
sorry for laughing there but I do think that yes you did it's still spots are available it is what I think you might
buy that and if you look at it on Google map there is a picture a rectangle okay
and right off of the road you're going somewhere else with that the road West 300 north so if you look off of 300
north you have the graveyard right there on one side of the road now the graveyard is lined out like a big
rectangle which it has a drive you can drive in go all the way to the back of the property and I believe at the tree
line you can actually go across the tree line and then then head back out the other way so you have two running roads
or drives from 300 North that basically encompass this graveyard there's places to drive and what I'm getting at here
too is you can you could drive a fair distance away from the road and put your vehicle back by by the tree line and
there's also a little center crossing section as well that you can drive on now I don't know how the width of those
if they're you know two lanes both ways or if it's just a single lane usually with the in a graveyard type setting
usually it's just a single lane to make it easier for people to access different
parts of the grave you to visit people but here's another really interesting thought captain we
have an eyewitness several eyewitnesses actually saying that they saw an individual who's not come forward we
don't know who either of them are it could just be one person could be two I don't want to mix words here I don't
think that there's two killers I think there's one killer well I think that cops would know that based off the the
audio and video footage yeah and but here's the thing with there being no vehicle description police love a
vehicle description they would rather have a vehicle description than a person description they love it it's easier to
find the car it's easier to find the car it's harder to harder to hide the car we
don't have one here so I wonder a little bit did this guy arrive on foot and leave on foot now it seems a little
confusing maybe two people that are not from the area but if you do a type up some some maps you know bring up any map
and end up maps and you bring up some directions and you play around with it one thing I found you could walk you
actually the distance is shorter walking that it is driving because the way that
the roads are laid out in this particular area so you could walk from the middle of the moanin High Bridge
mm-hmm and you could be at East Main Street Delphi and it's a one point two mile walk you would have to go over the
freedom bridge for the shortest route but that would be the direction that it's believed that bridge guy if in fact
he was the killer but the the flannel shirt man says that he saw bridge guy on the 501 trail heading toward the freedom
bridge at about 3:10 to 3:20 somebody could walk that's crazy somebody could walk from the middle of
the moanin high bridge to East Main Street Delphi be it be in Delphi at 1.2 miles right so about 15 to 17
minutes yeah 15 to 20 minutes well let me tell you a little story to open up some possibilities I'll make it quick
so I was intern for a long time as a recording engineer at this point like I I didn't do a lot of sessions I didn't I
had knowledge of this stuff but I have never done it myself other than like maybe bringing in some of my buddies to
record so they said my boss says to me hey there's a night session do you want to do it and of course us nervous and
said no I don't really want to do it he goes well no I'm gonna set it up it's easy two microphones on this piano all
you have to do is hit record and stop the guy he's he's from Athens Ohio was that about an hour and a half away yeah
roughly a drive mm-hmm he's from Athens he's a great kind of jazzy bluesy piano player we had this great piano but it
wasn't tuned and we had some rattles and bellowing but the guy didn't really care
was this demo and so my boss was giving him a discount because the piano wasn't working perfectly so we go and record
three or four tunes and after after two or three songs this guy's is playing live he'd come back in and listen this
guy's very scruffy he has a book bag with him and a guitar case you know that you'd wear as book bag so I go out to
make some coffee and then I go out to my car and I realize he has no car there and I'm thinking well this is strange so
we were almost done with the session and I see he has this guitar case so I unzip
the guitar case because I just want to see what guitar he has in the back right I shouldn't have done that but I did
anyways there was a I see a gun and at this plant I'm freaked out of my mind so in the session
I am back in the day I had a have to make a CD for him here you go take this with you and I said somebody come in to
get you and he said yeah so you get he leaves pays I clean up the studio go to leave
probably five minutes after him I start driving I don't see him anywhere around you know you know remember the studio
was really far back mm-hmm five minutes later I'm I am driving problem on 33 and I see him
walking this guy walked all the way from Athens set up a recording session walked
all the way from Athens played his songs took paid me took the CD and started walking back now I don't know if he was
meeting somebody somewhere but he was walking on the freeway but point of this long story was cuz one I I was thinking
about that gun and how much oh how freaked out I was but the point of the story is this individual could have
walked from really far away and I I hate to be the guy that to say there's so many possibilities but this guy booked a
session walked two hour and a half played five or six songs and then took off walking back it's not out of the
realm of possibilities well and not only that in this situation I'm bringing this
up for a couple different reasons one East Main Street Delphi one mile 1.2 miles from the bridge 15 20 minutes yeah
so this guy I mean there's there's plenty of houses over there this guy could have lived in a neighborhood near
there and just walked home he could have parked anywhere really within 1.2 miles
of the bridge you could have parked in any of these neighborhoods that are a mile and a half
from the bridge no and so he doesn't necessarily have to be parked at the abandoned building or parked in the
graveyard or parked on Ron Logan's property he very likely could have been parked in an area that nobody would
found to have been suspicious at all because it's a heavy heavily traveled area it's it's an area where there's a
lot of cars parked on the side of the road right buddy parks in a parking lot somewhere but you have to be careful of
those areas because if it's a busy parking lot then you have the possibility of being seen if you're
covered in blood mud or water right you know so that I get what you're saying and and and that's what's so frustrating
about this case though it says every time I'm I'm looking into it I start feeling like I'm getting somewhere and
then the doors of the possibility just blown open and and I wonder I wonder if it's gonna be another situation where if
we don't hear anything in in six months to a year if they're gonna have to keep putting out information that they know
because they have to be getting in a lolis I mean this case is highly covered on YouTube I mean there's seems like
there's a million armchair detectives working on this case like solely working on this case not like hey we covered
this case and we moved on to another case the following week like people that are just like that's all they're doing
well and that's why I think it's important to examine the possibilities and the reasons why this is not
themselves [Music] [Applause]

Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-imz9a-b9be28

Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 1 /// 322 Part 1 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com With so much left to discuss regarding the unsolved Delphi Murders case we decided to leave the mics on and go off the record. Join us as we wrap up our coverage of the Delphi Murders. Check out our Garage friends and safe some ca$h with these codes! www.Madison-Reed.com - use code GARAGE for 10% off plus FREE shipping on your first color kit www.LightStream.com/TCG - Consolidate your credit cards and get a great rate from Light Stream www.ZipRecruiter.com/GARAGE - Try Zip Recruiter for FREE!

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Delphi murders, focusing on suspects, DNA evidence, and the investigation's challenges.

Key points

The Mystery of the Delphi Murders. A deep dive into the complexities of the Delphi Murders case, exploring the implications of DNA evidence and suspects.
Paul Etter's Troubling Past. Examining the life of Paul Etter, a suspect with a history of violence and a connection to the Delphi case.
Thomas Bruce's Profile. Thomas Bruce, a suspect with a murder charge, raises concerns due to his background.
Conflicting Sketches. Two sketches of the suspect differ significantly, raising questions about eyewitness reliability.
Eyewitness Accounts. Confusion arises from multiple eyewitness descriptions that don't match the suspect.
The Bridge Guy's Movements. The suspect moved quickly across the bridge, raising suspicions among the girls.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Why wouldn't this be a slam-dunk?

5:27WatchJul 30, 2019

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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