Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 1 /// 322 | Forensic Files

foreign [Applause] [Music] [Applause] how can a case where they've told us so little
be so big right this case is just it seems huge it seems really small on the outside when you when you look into it
and you're like oh well we have a a couple seconds of a video clip of somebody walking on a bridge we have a
couple seconds of some guy talking saying guys down the hill and then you look into it and you're
like wow this is a huge huge case and part of that has been I think a lot of a lot of it is due to
speculation and we talked about this quite a bit before is right now anytime some some guy does something super
violent sexual nature resulting in Murder any of those different things we're seeing them
being brought to the Forefront of being a possible suspect in the Delphi murders
case right and not just individuals that are arrested in Indiana but anybody that's arrested that has ties to Indiana
well one guy we talked about was Paul Etter okay now he is super interesting for a million reasons but one thing that
you and I keep keep going back to is DNA okay so early last week what came out was that the sheriff states that the
Delphi murder investigators have requested Etters autopsy results as well as his DNA
okay so this guy was 55 years old he's dead he committed suicide after a standoff with police
where he was in the standoff with police because he had he had attacked a woman he abducted her while she was changing a
tire on the side of the road and Tippy Canoe County which is not terribly far from Delphi well she actually didn't she
actually like break down right by his house yeah something the way that the the story
works that that I read anyway was that he she broke down on the side of the road right in front of his property
right very early in the morning like at like 4 30 in the morning yeah he offers to help her and she's
she's kind of creeped out by this dude so she decides you know I don't need any help and just continues on
well right and we but we make some leaps here like one of the things that I've heard was okay well this Adder guy
creeped out his victim and that we we know that Abby and Libby were creeped out enough to take pictures of the guy
Bridge guy and so some people make that leap that this girl felt the same thing that Libyan Abby felt
he ends up following her and abducting this woman eventually he lets her go after rape and sexual assault
and then the police catch up with pauletta because he's driving around in a stolen vehicle yeah
after the standoff he commits suicide and now we find out that the sheriffs they're saying that the investigators
requested his autopsy results and his DNA and we've seen DNA requests before and we've we've talked about this before
but to me this really solidifies for me what I believe there to be DNA and you say well Nick why are they even
questioning why are you Nick Colonel Captain why are you garage idiots questioning the DNA well we're
questioning the DNA because in the beginning the investigators made it sound as if
they had it and then at some point that went away from their right their press releases and from their what their words
that they were choosing to use to the public it just disappeared and so then you have to question is there something
wrong with the DNA or did they not have it or did they speak did they speak out before they knew if they were going to
have it or not yeah and one of the statements that they made again that makes me question it where I think would
make any big question is the idea that they say look we're not going to clear anybody
we're not going to do that we're going to call it checked or or they've been we've gone over that person he's been
checked yeah we're not going to say that they've been cleared until somebody's arrested and somebody's convicted
and then the next statement is if they are convicted right meaning that this law enforcement officer believes that
they might one day arrest somebody but might not be able to get a conviction that's what it makes it seem now there
might just be playing it safe and that's fine and I understand that but if they're not playing it safe and
that statement is a true statement that makes you question if they have DNA because if you have somebody that you
arrest for the crime you have DNA plus you have other evidence why wouldn't this be a slam dunk
well and then one thing too is we discussed the reasons why you would ask someone to submit their DNA even if you
did not have this you're doing it as a scare tactic as a way to see if this suspect will squirm right and and
immediately become uncooperative in your questions and in your investigation and
then you go well we should be checking into this guy further because he doesn't want to seem to help us with this double
homicide of of two children I mean yeah you can be guilty of a lot of bad things
but nothing as bad as this so you you you would think persons would comply and offer their assistance at the
very least to just get their name off of this investigation well you see this similarly with um asking people to take
a lie detector we know that we can't use that in a court of law but we're going to use it to kind of see how you play
play out this hand right and so the thing though that really kind of I'm really going the way of yes they
have DNA and I've always kind of been that way on this on this case but I feel like the longer that we look into it the
the stronger my feeling is in my the higher my confidence level gets that they do have DNA and so it just doesn't
make any sense to me when people yeah I I I'm leaning your way I I have some reservations about it but at the
end of the day it's like why would they keep bringing up the idea that they're going to test individuals and even law
enforcement kind of said look it would be there'd be very surprised if if Etter is
is connected in any way but is it just a statement that they're making to the public to let them know
we're doing everything in our power yeah well not only that you have you have the public saying this guy's a
suspect and if if the public considers him a suspect then law enforcement better as well at least to the point of
check into him like you said he's been checked and then move on to your next guy and I I think that's where the
argument comes in where people start to question if there's DNA because they're going oh there's been all these suspects
in the Public's eye right the police and investigators and FBI are saying we're checking into this guy that we've been
made aware of now because he's been arrested for something else and then we never hear anything as far
as the guy being cleared and like you pointed out that's for good reason they've already said early on that they
are not going to clear anyone whether they whether they get somebody's DNA and they compare it to what they have on
file the sample that was left at the crime scene and they might go well he's been checked he's been checked we know
they may know that that person did not do it but they're not going to say that publicly until as you said Captain
somebody is sitting in court and sitting through the court the the trial process well let's
break that down a little bit because that didn't make a lot of sense to me why why would you not state that
somebody's cleared if you cleared them and and one of the things that they were saying is that if you come out publicly
and say uh Logan for example you know the girls were found on Logan's property Logan was
arrested on other charges if they go through and check Alibis and do some things they go okay well Logan is
cleared and then it comes back that he's not cleared and they arrest him and they
go to trial that just the statement that the law enforcement at one point cleared
this individual that could be reasonable doubt right that gives the jury Reasonable Doubt and
so that makes a lot more sense and because then you're fighting an uphill battle you're you're now saying well at
one point we cleared this individual but now uh no and and so if if at one point law
enforcement said this person wasn't involved that would like you said gives you probable cause to go well I uh or
gives you a reasonable doubt to go you know if they weren't sure at one point how am I supposed to be sure
well the the other thing that really strengthens my belief that they do have DNA one I'm just going back to the
beginning and realizing and knowing and reminding myself that they said they had
it at one point and I see that it's disappeared from their narrative I'm fine with that and I get why I think
that is and I think it's smart and I'll get into that in just a second but the thing that really strengthens my belief
that there is DNA here is they're requesting it from a dead man and we know this to be true per per the
news reports that were coming out last week and on top of that the way that the the wording that they use when they
state that is that they requested it shortly after this guy committed suicide shortly after Paul Etter killed himself
so the thing the thing is it's no longer a scare tactic if there's nobody to scare right it's just simply collecting
evidence at this point and so that really strengthens it for me on that level and then I've recently viewed a a
short interview where um Kim Riley one of the officers one of the investigators with the state police he's
not at the on the local level he's on the state police where he here's the thing with these with these with the
investigators here they're all doing a very good job they're they're trying to field and answer as many questions as
possible they do have a let's say script or a narrative to try to stick to that they've all agreed upon but on occasion
because they are being so transparent or at least with what what they're willing to share
and their availability to be in front of the public and to answer questions on occasion you can catch a little bit
of a slip where you're like oh I don't know that they were supposed to say it like that or well think about all the
emotions that they're carrying around yeah so in one in one of these little news Clips I saw Kim Riley stating you
know basically he's being asked if you have DNA or if you have so much evidence on this guy
why hasn't there been an arrest and he was saying well there's we and he's trying to be hypothetical but you
can tell in a way he's probably talking about what's actually going on with the case he says you know well we might have
a situation here where this person has never done anything before and we just don't have any way of tracking him down
or tracing this individual right so that really that statement to me really makes
me feel like the police at least believe that they're working on a suspect that bridge guy has not
been convicted of anything where he would have his DNA profile already submitted to CODIS and then when when he
goes further to say wouldn't have anything to track no way to trace this individual that also makes me wonder if
they have fingerprints as well but they're just not in the system that we do have stuff we just we need to find
the right guy the right person bring him forward and and have his fingerprints and or DNA
to compare this to and so I I feel good that I think that it's there I think the reason why you go
back and you go back and you go oh [ __ ] we talked about DNA let's kind of just
drop that from the story and not bring it up again because and then there's other times
where we have somebody like Daniel Nations who says I submitted my DNA and you never hear from police saying that
they that yeah we asked him to do so or he did submit it anything like that they
just say he's somebody we're not really that interested in I think the other thing if you do in fact have DNA or as
some guys up in the Amy mihalovic case like to say bait in the net which I always thought that was a strange way to
word it but if you do in fact have DNA you might want to drop that from The Narrative just for the fact that you
want this guy to slip up why do you find that weird and bait baiting the net I just saw
so when when uh the investigators Watertown right I mean they're they're by water right but what I mean by that
is when they're asked if they have DNA um most of the time their answer is well we have bait in the net
rather than just giving you a a clear General right clear General understanding sometimes they've given a
better answer than that but but for a while they were sticking to that bait in the net kind of thing which is fine
um anyway what I was getting at though Captain is here you have a situation where if you do have DNA of this guy and
he is not in the system he has not committed any offenses that he's been caught for to the point where he would
be in the system now you're going you know what let's drop that from The Narrative because we
wouldn't mind terribly if he goes out and commits an offense and gets caught for it right I mean
we're nobody's saying nobody's suggesting hey go out and and murder somebody so we can catch this guy well
we're what we're you're hoping for is could he get picked up for a DUI could he could he do something dumb you know
anything that would warrant a felony arrest from my understanding in Indiana now you were forced to submit your DNA
you might end up catching your guy but let's be clear about that so every state is different but in the state of Indiana
if you are arrested with something that you can be charged a felony for you don't have to actually be charged you
don't have to actually go through the process and be found guilty but when you're arrested they'll swab your DNA
and they're going to take your fingerprints and all that that's how they enter you into the system yeah and
I think you were saying that that didn't pass until 2017 and and then they don't
implement it until 2018 or whatever that yes that's my understanding of of the way that it's going down in Indiana and
as you said it gets difficult for us to remember there's 50 states and they're all kind of doing that stuff a little
different from from state to state here's the other thing though Paul Etter is in fact we know that they went after
his DNA according to the words that they chose to use and made it sound like it was
shortly after he killed himself so now we're looking at a month ago you would think if he is the guy he's
not alive for you to even bother talking to him right I feel like he's trying to
gather more information that's true just because we've not heard does not mean he's not the guy but do you think he
makes a good suspect because the initial the the thing I jump to immediately is yes Paul Etters a horrible individual
uh he abducted and raped a woman but he let her go we're looking for a killer not a
not necessarily just a rapist and we don't know the the Mounds of possibilities are are endless
and and that gets a little um it can make everything convoluted but I think what we we have here is an
individual that possibly could look like Bridge guy I mean we're only seeing just
like a headshot of this individual but you go okay here's this guy that has uh committed crimes before violent crimes
sexual in nature is it possible that he he did this uh double murder and then uh
kind of went on a spree if if you will that or or had a you know weird Universe uh the universe puts
um for lack of a better word prey right by his house and their early morning he attacks her for whatever reason maybe he
knows that this has gone too far we've seen this with other Killers with other attackers where they uh where afterwards
they'll say that I'm never doing this again or or they take their own life maybe he knew he was going to take his
own life and for whatever reason it's like okay I did this double murder that's been on my mind now I did this uh
this uh basically tortures what it was the sexual assault rape torture I'm going to take my own life and maybe
that's why I let her go and then he takes his own life I mean I mean I understand that there's a five hour
standoff but we we can't know for sure what was going through this guy's head but it is that's a possibility so when
people say well he let this other uh victim go and he didn't let you know that that
rules him out and so people so many people's mind I'm like I don't think that rules out anything
because we don't know what's going on in this sick individual's mind right I agree I I but I tend to lean
toward I I don't know that I'd make him the top suspect partly in part just because he did let
that future victim go and from the way I'm I'm viewing this thing it looks to me like he may have got away with that
and I hate to say this out loud he may have gone away with that whole attack and rape if he had not let her go
and it's just the well and the other thing that makes me question it too is again is his age well and that's what I
wonder because he had to have some knowledge that she had knowledge of where he was from
and maybe she didn't know that area that well but where she broke down and so by
letting her go it's almost like you're setting free the person that is going to basically be your downfall and the
reason why you get captured but again if your vehicle breaks down in front of this guy's house and he comes
walking out or in front of his property and he he very clearly comes walking out
and you go well he must have lived there I mean that's probably the first thing you're going to say you might not know
the the numerical of the address that you broke down in front of but you're gonna go hey I was on on uh I such and
such yeah last week I had the note I had the street name in my notes but yeah you
could go I was right around this area on such and such street guy comes out of his house four o'clock
in the morning yeah and now and then you can identify the guy and what's interesting to me about
the whole connection with with Etta is um he kind of has a bulbous nose would you say it's bulbous
yeah and I've actually yes well and I'm I'm using that term uh uh for in this case because I've
actually seen several videos where they're doing new profiles of Bridgeman and they start talking about that he has
a a characteristic that we haven't noticed and the past and I've actually seen this
from at least two individuals where they're saying he has a character that we didn't notice but now we notice he
has a bulbous nose and I wonder if that is these online armchair Detectives if this is their way of them Shifting
The Narrative okay well we have this guy in custody is he a perfect match for a bridge guy
no like you said logically he attacks one attacks two individuals kills them lets another one go that doesn't seem to
line up really but um he's he's 55 and which would be past the actual age range that they they gave us
right from yeah from the most recent press conference the the big one that kind of blew everything up in April
they're saying 18 to 40. is the age that they believe that they're looking for and so even you know even two years ago
Paul Etter would have been 53. now I am sitting here looking at a mug shot of his from 2012. I'm not I don't have a
full understanding of what his charge would have been back then but it appears to be a mug shot from 2012 right
so seven years ago he would have been 48 I will I will say this about Paul he could probably now mind you this is a
very small sample size he's bald if he had hair it would help quite a bit more but I I could maybe see him passing
for 43 in this picture yeah and he would be about 48 so he does look younger or appear younger than what he
is which that's also part of what they said in their release that we're looking for someone probably between the ages of
18 and 40 who may appear younger than their actual age right but the the tricky thing here though is didn't they
also claim in this description that the the perpetrator Bridge guy had you know kind of a reddish hair
well in the first sketch yes the first sketch that was released it appears to be reddish hair I what were they saying
about the second sketch do they get the hair color for that one I thought that's
the one that they said reddish okay and so that that makes me question I mean when people still bring up Logan because
the girls were found on Logan's property again clearly Logan has gray hair clearly Etter has a you know salt and
pepper here I would say but leaning more gray so I don't know uh well unless that
I I have some issues and I think anybody should have issues with the idea that you have as you have
two sketches that they claim were happen at the same time they went with one over
the other they look like two different individuals to me I'm having a real hard time the more we dive into this case I'm
having a hard time actually believing any of this as far as eyewitnesses go well I think I think somebody that's
still of very big interest to me is Thomas Bruce who is thankfully in jail waiting
on something to happen with his current case right where he is facing a murder charge and sexual assault and rape
charges he's the one that went into the Catholic supply store for and ordered the women to the back of
the the the establishment right and attacked and assaulted and killed one of them there the way that this thing goes
down and I can't remember I know we went through his timeline somewhat but he left the store at one point under
the guise of going out to get a credit card from his car which he returns and I I'm assuming that's when he went out and
got the gun from his vehicle and this guy is weird too because again the age is wrong with him the the difference
between him and Paul Etter is we know Thomas Bruce to be a killer the thing that also I find fascinating about
Thomas Bruce is it doesn't appear that he's been in any kind of trouble before this strange attack right that results
in the murder and I I don't know I'm I'm not saying that Thomas Bruce is the guy I'm just saying
on the on the outside looking in he looks a little more like the guy to me in a sense that
it seems like he committed a crime of opportunity that maybe when he did enter that store
the first time I mean look we know he left the store and came back so there was something in
his plan that he needed from the vehicle or something that he needed to readjust
before he carried out the attack or he wasn't 100 planning on attacking the place when he first walked in there yeah
how many individuals were in there I think it was like three women were in there and and again so logic would tell
you okay well so Adder attacks a single female and then obviously Libby and Abby being
two females but in this other case with Bruce then you go well he he had no problem going hey there's three people I
can control this and his brain right and so that's the same scenario as Libby and Abby
so you're out in the park you see these two girls walking and you think that's an opportunity and I I really think that
that narrows down the individual quite a bit because there's a lot of individuals
that they're not going to try to control two two victims they're not going to try
to to tell most of these perpetrators that's too big of a situation and so you know logic would tell you
that that's a good match yeah and the other thing too is Thomas Bruce was even let's say he did not plan on
attacking those women at the Catholic supply store until after he went in there the first time
he obviously was prepared to do something like that in some form or fashion even just to the point where he needed
to go out to his vehicle and get something possibly and that's what I think he I think this
dude had a had a kill kit rape kit in his vehicle yeah and he saw an opportunity or maybe
he was planning on maybe he was watching and casing the place and saw his opportunity
and right but he goes and retrieves the kill kit rape kit from from the vehicle right again same type of thing though as
you don't know who's going to be on the trails you don't know who's going to be at the park that day
but you just bring this stuff with you but you were prepared to do something if an opportunity presented itself right
which again same as the first attack foreign [Music] so let's talk about the suspect's age
one thing that I find and the sketches as well so one thing that I find completely fascinating like you were
saying when you see these two sketches they're completely different from one another
and and that's frustrating as hell right in a whole bunch of ways they're completely different from one another
and then we have the statement of the suspect we believe we're looking for a guy between the ages of 18 and 40 who
may appear younger than what he is well what's the population on people 18 to 40. I mean that's a that's 22 years that
we're spanning and then Okay so we've been told that those sketches both sketches were developed by eyewitnesses
that saw a man matching that description whether it be sketch a or sketch B that
day near the bridge or on the trails that day right so again it's it's it's weird that we have two completely
different sketches and then on top of that here's here's one thing that I really wonder about the age range here
because you should be able to look at somebody's face if you're going to describe them to the point where
somebody can draw a sketch you should be able to answer the question of does he look 18 or does he
look 40. rather than I couldn't decide if it was 18 could have been as late as 40. what I
wonder here is because we have the two sketches and they're two so different from one another
are they not ruling out the possibility of either sketch being correct and and police are thinking that he looks
younger in one sketch than he does in the other and therefore now we have a a range of
20 to 22 years for the possibility well see I just wonder at first um based off of eyewitness
based off of the video footage that they had if they just went you know what this
this eyewitness gave us this this um drawing we were able to look at that drawing look at Bridgeman look at the
the video footage that we have because we're assuming that they have more video footage
for the rumor is they have a lot more footage um I could not get that confirm I have a
weird situation where I do have a contact that actually worked the case I can't get into that too much
uh but some of the information that I have I have passed along to them just to see if they can confirm or deny uh
sometimes um I don't wanna I don't know how to say this but I I think sometimes it's almost like if they can confirm it
like they just won't um not they're not trying to be jerks or anything but it's it's so it's almost
like uh you know like oh I heard they have a lot more footage can you confirm or deny that and then it's like no
answers but it's really like basically they're confirming what I'm saying so I think they have a lot more
footage than what they're leading on to believe and so what what if it's just this
simple I saw this guy on the bridge okay he looks like this okay we do a drawing
that drawing kind of looks like Bridge guy kind of looks like this grainy video footage we have of the individual you
get the next eyewitness they give you a whole different person you kind of compare that with Bridge guy
your gut feeling tells you no you that's why you went with the first drawing my argument is that we have
all these people coming forward or not all these people but we have a handful of people saying well we saw these this
guy on on the path that doesn't mean that they actually saw the Killer they just saw a guy on the path right
and that's what I can't get over because I believe this uh where he took them to to go down
buy roughly by that service road keep going down across the river I think that was all by Design
and I think it's more than likely it was either to take them to a more remote situation
but even if that was the case and there was no vehicle down there I either think he was trying to take
them to a remote situation and that's where his getaway was or it was let me take him to this remote
situation and then whatever happens happens but then when I'm leaving I think this individual knew that area
so well that they didn't have to leave back on that path so then I question are these
are these eyewitness accounts even of the murderer well we don't know what we do know is
that they tell us that the what we're seeing in the video the the man in the video Bridgeman is is the Killer
and then we're getting these two sketches of people that were seen in the area on the paths and
the the sketches to me are fascinating in the sense of thinking about it this way as well
so let's assume in this situation right you would assume that you would have one
person that you wouldn't know who they are that's the killer the Killer's not going to come forward
and say well that was me on the path there that day we find that highly unlikely okay not that it would never
happen but we know it probably has not happened to this point but let's say both of these people and
multiple people that offered up this this person that they claim to have seen that day
if we're to believe all of them then we have two persons at least two people that don't look
anything like each other so I'm gonna go ahead and say two people right that are
unknown to us at this time when we should only have one and so then you and I were talking about
this and you brought up a good point and I countered it with a with a another good point
you said well then it also make now that makes me wonder how many other people you have
that you're that are unknown to you yeah it's not like you walk into the park and
you check in you know or that there's some like camera that you have to go buy and then
we can go well we know that there was a hundred people there that day and and 98
of them are accounted for 99 of them are accounted for one thing I question in this though is there a chance that we
that there's a person that's been made up that they're they could dive into that
further so what I mean by that is where where we're sitting here going okay if both of these sketches are correct then
we have two people that have not come forward two people that are unknown to us right and then you brought up the
good point that well if you got two then maybe you have more and I I agree with that possibility as well I also
think about the idea of maybe we don't have two people that were there what if one of these people is just a bad
description of of a person that's already come forward right what what if for whatever reason somebody look they
had the best of intentions they're trying to help they're misremembering and they're describing somebody that
they didn't really see they saw somebody else instead or it's a mashup of multiple people that they saw that day
right and we we also don't know when we're getting these reports and so what we do know at one point you know the
we know okay correct me if I'm wrong but we do know that that the father was there looking for the girls yeah Derek
was there we know he was there because he he was in charge of picking them up that day and I I could see
you know somebody giving a bad description and saying that bridge guy kind of looks like him
kind of see that I I think uh the grandfather looks more like Bridge guy number one the drawing
again is are there are these people searching are they asking for eyewitnesses did somebody come forward a
week later and say yeah I saw this guy and give you a bad description and all they saw was
um you know Derek looking for the girls from my understanding both of those sketches and I'm just going off of words
that and mind you they're choosing their words very carefully [Music] but from press conferences and from
interviews that police and investigators and State Police have done with with the public and the media
those two sketches from everything I've seen were developed within 48 Hours of the girls going
missing right and and both were both they came up with both sketches because they were
eyewitness statements and accounts and look you have uh was that there's like a meat packing place pretty close by a lot
of sex offenders there there's a lot of sex offenders in the area it's very possible that somebody was
just taking a hype not doing anything bad but has a record or has a kind of a dark history that it's just not going to
come forward I just don't see and again we don't know because it's not that that information hasn't been put
out there they're not saying that this eyewitness saw the person coming back through an entrance or an exit
so we don't know where they actually saw this individual right well right the police know I can't say for
certain but the the things that I'm seeing reading hearing is okay so we talked a little bit about
the flannel shirt man the flannel shirt man is believed to be one of the witnesses to seeing
one of these individuals in the sketch and I believe I think the general thought is that
flannel shirt man saw what he described to be the first sketch that came out okay so the slight the the older looking
of the two in my opinion and the thing is it the way that this has been described is that this Man based
off of his timeline would have seen the bridge guy on the trail on the 501 trail walking
away from the Moon and high bridge and he's believed it's believed that bridge guy was leaving at that time
leaving the area in the process of doing such so we know from Derek's statements as well
Derek Saul the flannel shirt man when he arrived around 3 15 to pick up his daughter
so that that would put flannel shirt man and Derek at the intersecting trails at
505 and 501 around 3 14 3 15 P.M now flannel shirt guy is going to say that he saw Bridge guy around this same
time but he also saw Derek so we we have a general marker and place marker for where Bridge guy may have been around
three let's back it up and say 310 to maybe 3 20. and the the thing that I would love to
see the most in this guy's statement and flannel shirt guys statement is is it police saying that bridge guy was
leaving at that time just basing everything off of the known facts of the case and and their timeline
or was that that dude's statement he was leaving why would he know if the guy's coming or going or anything
different that seems a little strange to me I would love to know if that's if that's flannel shirt guys words or if
that's the investigator's words because that would be about the time he should be leaving right we know they
were alive and well at 207 and then we have statements from the family saying that around 3 30 or so
the phone was going straight to voicemail wasn't even ringing anymore the thing is we have a very a very small
window things happen very fast that day once they started going wrong right we're talking this attack in murder and
everything happened between 207 and 3 30. and you can even Whittle that down faster
if you believe some of the other known statements right so let's go through this real quick 207 that picture's taken
there's no Bridge guy on the bridge at that time they say that it would take seven
minutes for somebody to walk that bridge now that's if you're walking you're very
mindful of your steps you're you're you're watching your steps as you go along you're being very safe cautious
I actually think Bridge guy moved a lot faster than that wasn't so cautious I think that's what probably alerted the
girls that this dude is weird that he's something is up right or scary right I think they look back on the bridge and
all of a sudden this guy's on the bridge and he's moving and he's moving at a good Pace he's not running you can't run
on that bridge but he's moving at a good pace and not only is he moving at a good
Pace he's he's watching his steps and he's turning and he's checking behind him every now and then to make sure
nobody is behind him nobody's behind him with their and they're thinking yeah what should this guy care if
nobody's behind him and why is he moving so fast well again so he doesn't want to
be seen so then I then I question because did he try to make the girls cross the
water or or did they actually make a run for it you know uh I heard somebody say
that they think that it was his idea for them to cross but that's probably where
he lost control of them and that's why they you know he took their lives on the other side
but you know we don't know the details of how he took their lives other than they we believe there was a
weapon involved so we know that but then we also know that there's a very good possibility
right what almost at least 100 chance that he was wet on some level and so again he would have to be at some
point that day he he was in the water right and that's again what makes me believe that he didn't backtrack
okay now this is done let me get back on that main trail I know I don't know those trails that
unless he had to you know what I mean I I get what you're saying I I'm fully because of the bridge
right so it when I look at this thing if you were going to try to plan this out and make it go down without any problems
at all here's how it goes down you you see them a little bit after 207 and and this is
the thing you would actually go down Trail 505. the Less Traveled Trail the 501 leads to
the monin High Bridge okay but on the 505 when you walk down there and you get Creekside
I'm wondering if there's a spot down there because what happens is picture a v right the the trails start off
together and they don't when I say intersecting it's not an X it's more of a of a thin V where one goes off to to
one side a little bit but you're basically walking these trails and and a friend of yours could walk on
the other and and really you just have a small tree line separating you for a while and then it extends it extends it
extends and you get a little further and further from one another but what I'm getting at is somebody could sit there
could post up on the 505 down there near the creek and you could spot people coming I'm guessing because
I've never been there but I would think that you might be able to see people approaching the bridge
from your Viewpoint and if you see what you think to be your possible victims there it's just two people there's
nobody else with them and there's nobody else around or on the bridge at that time that's when you you don't have to
go back out to that main trail you could cut across and really you're going to end up right at the front of the bridge
and so at 207 they're fine but this guy didn't take seven minutes to move across that bridge he moved
across that bridge in five or four he he was faster he was moving faster than if somebody was watching
their steps mm-hmm he scooted across that bridge that puts us at 12 after two and then he is if we're to believe that
the eyewitness statement is correct and it is in fact Bridge guy then that puts him back at that
intersection of the trail and out one hour later so a lot of things have happened during that time
and I'm with you though Captain if you were to plan this thing out perfectly once you see them get to the other side
of the bridge they're completely compromised now you go oh well all of most likely anybody that could help them
or anybody could that could view what I'm doing they're on the backs they're on this other side of the bridge right
the girls are on the opposite side of the bridge that's where I'm going to get them that's where I'm going to take
control if you I mean you just watch the words and you you map out a quick little
location of where they were found you can see down the hill across this little uh
driveway that that actually looks like a road and then it's down the hill more across
the creek and then they're found right there both of their bodies are found right there if you were to plan this out
perfectly you probably would have parked your vehicle in the graveyard where there are little roads
that go back by the trees you could have put your vehicle over there and after killing them you could have walked
through the woods up to the graveyard never going on a trail again the only Trail you have anywhere near
you on that opposite side of Deer Creek are the horse trails for Ron Logan's Farm
but those aren't those are horse trails they're not traveled by the the people that are
visiting the bridge or the park so that would be if if you wanted to to not be seen after the attack that would
be your where you would really want to park your car now the issue could be though
he he didn't know that he didn't know exactly where he was going to do this attack or exactly how it was going to go
down and maybe his vehicle was left elsewhere beforehand mm-hmm and one thought is the the vehicle that was
parked at the abandoned building which that would have required him to go back up that trail in the opposite way
you would probably try to walk off the trail as much as possible but at some point you might have to pop back onto
that that trail well it's kind of hard to kind of visualize some of this stuff because
like the entrance where the girls were dropped off at I believe they have like a new gate
there so that looks different than the day of the murders and then where the abandoned
car was there's no abandoned or well where the car was by the abandoned building
there's no abandoned building anymore so um but it kind of looks like a little Service Road in between like a highway
where that car would be parked and then it would be facing depending on where you're parking you'd be looking right at
the freedom Bridge yeah so you have yeah you have the what was that Highway 25. is right there on
your on to your left here's an interesting thing to think of though too okay so if that was his car
at parked at the abandoned building he would have had to walk back up the 5-0 the 501 Trail the the most heavily
traveled Trail and make his way up that way most likely I'm sure there's probably ways to do
that but keep in mind you have the Mears Farm a lot of this property right here are the is belongs to the mirror family
or Mears family and remember you you mentioned that Mike Patty looks something like the bridge
guy in your opinion he he might not have been able to been mistaken for bridge guy because given
the timeline we have he would not have been at the park or near the bridge at the time that the witness saw Bridge guy
but their statement in the press conference from 4 22 of this year their exact words police were we are
seeking The public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS slash DCS welfare
building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of County Road 300 North next to the Hoosier
Heartland Highway that's also Highway 25. between the hours of noon to five on February 14 2017 and then it says in
this presser note it has been updated that date was misspoken it should have been February 13th which was the day the
girls went missing so this CPS DCS welfare building was a um like a like a child support
building at one time right and so it was like a government city building but it was abandoned at the
time on February 13 2017 they're asking for the driver of a vehicle and what makes
you wonder are they just going okay we we saw this vehicle nobody in it or saying hey we want to identify the
driver of this vehicle are they saying that there's a there was a driver in it at that time
um I I don't know it's not clear enough no right and so that changes the whole dynamic right
we're looking for this driver that was in the car that changes the whole dynamic right
if you were parked there or no because you're saying the driver if you were parked there or you know who was parked
there it's like were you in the well yeah the car didn't kill the girls they're like they're looking for an
individual well no but what I'm saying is that you know they're not saying we're looking for the owner of the car
now they're saying the driver of the car right somebody put that car there somebody moved that car later right
that's who they're looking for saying if going on to say if you park there or know who was parked there please contact
the officers at the command post at the Delphi city building but again that doesn't mean that that
that is your killer but that's a very quick way to go when you start going okay well where did he
park because that's that's a really big question that nobody usually gets to when they start talking about Delphi in
my opinion is this guy left some way he left the area somehow he fled the area after the
attack we don't know what time he got there we could assume I would assume he probably arrived before the girls did he
may have arrived long enough before where he was he's waiting this thing out and looking for
a victim I don't I don't feel like it's highly likely that he just arrives and immediately spots a victim that doesn't
seem likely to me there were other people there that day uh he didn't choose some of them in my
opinion right right well and I I think that's why if this is premeditated like in the
sense that they this killer knew going and going to this park going to these trails that he's
going to do this you know the the service road by the bridge you know down the hill like like
we said whether it's a driveway or a service Bridge or a service road or or well it's it's a road that becomes a
driveway to a residence right and then but then there's also uh once you cross the water a little bit further down I
believe there's some access there further down I believe that if the person knew his
Killer goes there knowing they're going to try to do this that their truck or car is going to be parked somewhere
there not so much at an entrance or at a where people could see this individual that's my gut feeling oh yeah no I agree
100 with you that's why I said he would have been parked in the the graveyard would be the right right would be the
most likely spot I mean the problem with parking so so where you would put your vehicle if you wanted to park closest
all right the whole thing's the whole thing's a crime scene right the whole place is a crime scene from the minute
he stepped on the ground to the moment he left yeah every everything that his feet touched is a crime scene however if
you were to plan this out in great detail and everything go your way then ideally you would park you would
want your vehicle I believe to be as close to the ending point of your crime scene right then the beginning point of
your crime scene because you're going to if this is a messy murder there's any number of ways that you can
look different at the end of this crime then you would walking step stepping foot onto the
crime scene for the first time yeah you know we already talked about his genes likely were wet he he went through the
water at some point that day we there's no question about that unless he unless this [ __ ] can hover he went through
the water that day okay that would make a good shirt and then on top of that he very likely could have had blood on
his person or on his belonging somewhere and either those are giant red flags keep them they were looking for missing
girls that day they weren't looking for murdered girls that day they were looking for missing girls that day they
weren't looking for a murder suspect that day he got away he fled pretty undetected
whether he was seen by the flannel shirt guy or not he fled pretty undetected so
if if you were to map this thing out and carried out the exact way that you would
want to ideally you want to put your vehicle as close to the ending point of the
crime and the crimes in the crime scene as possible well right and instead of just having it on a residential drive or
some other road that that would stick out like a sore thumb but if you park at the at the graveyard right yeah if you
park at the here's the problem with that very spot you could park at the graveyard and be
okay I would think the other the areas that are as close to you as the graveyard mind you we're going from
right where the bodies were found the other areas that you could park that would be close to you at that point
that's private property that belongs belongs to Ron Logan that belongs to the mirrors Family
that seems quite a bit more risky to me than parking at the graveyard yeah unless unless you know
you know Logan's whereabouts or you know the family but still again if you're going there with the
idea that you're going to commit a crime if you know these individuals you don't
want them to be able to say oh yeah I saw I saw this guy's vehicle on my property that day
I think the graveyard makes the most sense too because it's like there had to be some other visitors right so
it's not so suspicious if you have a car that's you know there's I can't see anybody here well they might have parked
and walked down to a grave and and and spending a little time at the grave well I mean the graveyard was
was it a working graveyard um it seems to be right I I I I know what you mean I I sorry for laughing
there but I I do think that yes you that it's still spots are available is what I think you
mean by that and if you look at it on Google Map there is a picture a uh rectangle okay and right off of the road
that you're going somewhere else with that the road West 300 North so if you look off of 300 North you have
the graveyard right there on one side of the road now the graveyard is lined out
like a big rectangle which it has a a drive you can drive in go all the way to the back of the property and I believe
at the tree line you can actually go across the tree line and then then head back out the other way so you have
two running roads or drives from 300 North that basically Encompass this graveyard there's places to drive and
what I'm getting at here too is you can you could drive a fair distance away from the road and put your vehicle back
by by the tree line and there's also a little Center Crossing uh section as well that you can
drive on now I don't know how the width of those if they're you know two lanes both ways or if it's just a single Lane
usually with a in a graveyard type setting usually it's just a single Lane to make it easier for people to access
different parts of the graveyard to to visit uh people but here's another really interesting
thought captain we have an eyewitness several eyewitnesses actually saying that they saw an
individual who's not come forward we don't know who either of them are it could just be one person could be two
um I don't want to mix words here I don't think that there's two killers I think there's one killer well I think
the cops would know that based off the the audio and video footage yeah and but here's the thing with there being no
vehicle description police love a vehicle description they would rather have a vehicle description
than a person description they love it it's easier to find the car it's easier to find the car it's harder to harder to
hide the car we don't have one here so I wonder a little bit did this guy arrive on foot
and leave on foot now it seems a little confusing maybe to people that are not from the area but if you do a
type up some some maps you know bring up any map and look at the maps and you you
bring up some directions and you play around with it one thing I found you could walk you actually the distance is
shorter walking than it is driving because the way that the roads are laid out in this particular area
so you could walk from the middle of the monin High Bridge and you could be at East Main Street Delphi
and it's a 1.2 mile walk you would have to go over the freedom bridge for the shortest route but that
would be the direction that it's believed that bridge guy if in fact he was the killer but the the flannel shirt man
says that he saw Bridge guy on the 501 Trail heading toward the freedom bridge at about 3 10 to 3 20.
somebody could walk that's crazy somebody could walk from the middle of the Mountain High Bridge to East Main
Street Delphi be in Delphi at 1.2 miles right so about 15 to 17 minutes yeah 15 to
20 minutes well let me tell you a little story to open up some possibilities I'll I'll
make it quick so I I would intern for a long time as a recording engineer at this point like I
I didn't do a lot of sessions I didn't I had knowledge of this stuff but I I have
never done it myself other than like maybe bringing in some of my buddies to record
so they said uh my boss says to me hey there's a night session do you want to do it
and of course I was nervous and said no I don't really want to do any Goods well
no I'm going to set it up it's easy two microphones on this piano all you have to do is hit record and
stop the guy he's he's from Athens Ohio was that about an hour and a half away yeah roughly a drive
is from Athens he's a great kind of Jazzy bluesy piano player we had this great piano but
it wasn't tuned and we had some rattles in the low end but the guy didn't really
care it was this demo and so my boss was given him a discount because the piano wasn't working perfectly
so we go and record three or four tunes and after after two or three songs this guy's just playing live he'd come back
in and listen this guy's very scruffy he has um a book bag with him and a guitar
case you know that you would wear as a book bag so I go out to make some coffee and then I go out to my car and I
realize he has no car there I'm thinking well this is strange so we we're almost done with the session and I
see he has this guitar case so I unzipped the guitar case because I just want to see what guitar he has in the
back right um I shouldn't have done that but I did anyways there was a I see um a gun
and at this point I'm freaked out of my mind so in the session uh I I I'm back in the
day I had to have to make a CD for him here you go take this with you and I said uh somebody coming to get you uh
and he said yeah so you get he leaves pays I clean up the studio go to leave probably five minutes
after him I start driving I don't see him anywhere around you you know remember the studio is really far back
five minutes later I'm I'm driving 33 and I see him walking this guy walked all the way from Athens
set up a recording session walked all the way from Athens played his songs took paid me took the
CD and started walking back now I don't know if he was meeting somebody somewhere
but he was walking on the freeway my point of this long story it's because one I always think about
that gun and how much how freaked out I was but the point of the story is this individual could have walked
from really far away and and I I hate to be the guy that to say there's so many possibilities
but this guy booked a session walked an hour and a half played five or six songs and
then took off walking back it's not out of the realm of possibilities well and not only that in
this situation I'm I'm bringing this up for a couple different reasons one East Main Street
Delphi one mile 1.2 miles from the bridge 15-20 minutes yeah so this guy I mean there's there's
plenty of houses over there this guy could have lived in a neighborhood near there and just walked home
he could have parked anywhere really within 1.2 miles of the bridge he could have parked in any of these
neighborhoods that are a mile and a half from the bridge yeah and so he doesn't necessarily have to be parked at the
abandoned building or parked in the graveyard or parked on Ron Logan's property he very likely could have been
parked in an area that nobody would found to have been suspicious at all because it's a heavy heavily traveled
area it's it's an area where there's a lot of cars parked on the side of the road right before he parks in a busy
parking lot somewhere but you have to be careful of those areas because if it's a
busy parking lot then you have the possibility of being seen if you're covered in blood mud or water
right you know so I get what you're saying and and that's what's so frustrating about this case though is as every time
I'm I'm looking into it I start feeling like I'm getting somewhere and then the doors of the possibility
just are blown open and and I wonder I wonder if it's going to be another situation
where if we don't hear anything in in six months to a year if they're going to have to keep putting out information
that they know because they have to be getting a lot of leads I mean this case is highly covered
on YouTube I mean there's seems like there's a million armchair detectives uh working on this case like
solely working on this case not like hey we covered this case and and we moved on to another case the
following week like people that are just like that's all they're doing well and that's why I think it's important to
examine the possibilities and the reasons why this has not been sold [Music]

Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 1 /// 322

Part 1 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

With so much left to discuss regarding the unsolved Delphi Murders case we decided to leave the mics on and go off the record. Join us as we wrap up our coverage of the Delphi Murders.

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Brief Summary

The episode analyzes Paul Etter's potential link to the Delphi murders and the complexities of DNA evidence in the investigation.

Key points

The Speculation Surrounding the Case. The case seems huge despite limited information, leading to rampant speculation.
Paul Etter's Connection to the Case. Investigators requested DNA from Paul Etter, a man with a violent past who committed suicide.
The DNA Dilemma. Questions arise about the existence and handling of DNA evidence in the investigation.
Thomas Bruce's Background. Discussion about Thomas Bruce, a suspect with a violent history, raises concerns.
Conflicting Sketches. Two sketches of the suspect differ significantly, raising questions about eyewitness reliability.
Eyewitness Accounts. The reliability of eyewitness accounts is called into question, complicating the investigation.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

If you have DNA, why wouldn't this be a slam dunk?

5:12WatchNov 3, 2022

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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