Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 2 /// 323 | Forensic Files

For all of our old episodes, download the free Stitcher app. And our other show, True Crime Garage Off the Record,
is available on Stitcher Premium. And now, the Delphi murders off the record. Well, and that's why I think it's
important to examine the possibilities and the reasons why this has not been solved. And I think
one thing that we can get into, Captain, and part of it that that we talked about
last week, was I kept referencing maybe the investigators have just been unlucky.
Maybe, you know, because you see this and you're like, we got we got the video. We got the voice. We have
eyewitness statements. And they worked with FBI. And and and again, they might have DNA. And I'm going to I'm going to
quit saying might. I'm going to go with they do, okay? I think that probably very quickly into
this thing, they realized that they had DNA and they thought this thing was going to be over and done very quickly.
And then it took a while and they realized this dude's not in any of the systems.
We can't we can't track this guy down that we have nothing to compare it to. And I think that's why you see there was
a delay in putting uh take taking that still image and then releasing the actual short little video
there. Mhm. And then there's the delay between that short that that still image and the sketch, the original sketch that
comes out. Because what? That didn't come out till what? June or July of the year of the crime?
There were several months that went by. So, here's one thing where I I wonder one thing. Let's get into a bunch of
things where they've been where investigators may have just been unlucky. One, the no match of DNA. We've
already talked about that. Two, I think I'm starting to think that the bridge guy's appearance on the pixelated
video may almost give a false sense of his actual true appearance. And I think that that's working in his
favor and working against investigators. For one thing, when you first see the video, right? When you saw the still
image, didn't you think we were looking for like a pudgy guy? Like kind of a kind of a fluffy fat guy?
Or or at least slightly overweight. But then later when they released the video and you see the individual walking,
you can see that those pants are the the jeans are a lot baggier than what his actual legs may require.
When you see that leg move, you almost see that the legs are much thinner than those jeans. Chicken legs. And then you
have to wonder how many layers of clothing is that's the thing that I wonder why
if for some reason he did stand out and he must have in some form or fashion because we have witnesses or believed
witnesses that think that they saw him on one of the trails. I I don't know that it the the detecting
factor for them would be that oh, I saw a guy with wet jeans. Because we went through that
conversation last week. You may not have been able to visually see and determine
that his jeans were wet. Right. They may have just appeared to be a darker shade
of blue. But it was a warm day for February. To me, the guy looks at least on the, you know,
the upper half of him looks to be very overdressed for the temperature that day.
It almost appears that he's wearing a hoodie or or something of significance underneath a jacket. Mhm. And one thing
going in his favor, too, here again, I believe that there's there's a collar to that jacket. There's a part of that
jacket that's sticking up at one point, and he's looking down to watch his feet his foot placement on that bridge.
That's concealing his face a little bit. He may be wearing a hat, or that might just be wearing a hoodie with the hood
up. That I I feel like we're we're getting a false sense of his true appearance because it is a pixelated video. Now,
here's here's the thing. You were talking about do we have more video footage? I think that there's more video, and
this is pure speculation, okay? Pure speculation. Don't Don't Don't put on the blog "Untrue."
I'm saying it this might not be true. I'm just guessing here. I think that they have more video footage.
Unfortunately, I don't think that there's so much video to watch. What I mean by that is I think
that shortly after Libby was filming this guy on the bridge, and he's very quickly making his
way we're not seeing that clip in real speed. I don't care what anybody says. I We
cannot believe we're seeing that at real speed. Mhm. I think at some point she had to conceal
her phone from him. Either hold it in a way that she's not filming, or it's not obvious to him that
he's being caught on camera, or she stuck it in her pocket. And that might That might be the reason why we're
hearing the words, and it sounds muffled. Guys down the hill. It may sound muffled
because it might be in her pocket. Right. And I think that her I think that she that the video
was running and filming. It just might not have had anything additional to film because it was
concealed in her pocket. And I think that her phone went dead so quickly. Anybody that's run the camera feature, I
mean, well, camera feature and or the video feature, Mhm. the video recording feature on their
phone, realize that kills your phone very quickly. Yeah. And they were saying very quickly her calls were going
straight to voicemail. They weren't ringing anymore. And I I think that this guy
very likely did not know that he was filmed, did not know that his voice was was caught on her Right.
phone. And and he left the phone there because look, I I don't want to give this [ __ ] any
credit, but he's smart enough that he he he's smart enough that he's got away with this so
far. Well, let's not say smart cuz that that's one of the things Or lucky enough. Well, I I think I got a
better word for you. I one of the things that they were kind of talking about and profiling this
individual is he organized or disorganized? And so, I think there's a lot of evidence that shows that he's organized.
Uh and then but then not taking the phone, that seems like disorganization. Well, you could take that either way. I
was thinking about that, too. Not taking the phone, you go, "Oh, that's disorganized. He didn't didn't plan it
out, didn't put much thought into it." What if he What if he did put thought into it in advance and he said, "I'm not
taking any of their phones because what if they trace their phones? They could trace, you know, what if they follow the
pings on their phones to me because I took them with me? What if What if he destroyed her phone
at the scene, not knowing that it captured any of his image or anything like that cuz the phone's dead by that
point? Or if he just just left it there or tossed it in the water. Yeah. And And oh, tossed in the water is
an interesting thing, too, because we talked about the clothing, right? The victims' clothing. Last week, we were
talking about where they found clothed, where they found in the nude, where they found was the
clothing in fact ever even found if if they were if it if it wasn't on their person.
I still don't know the answer to that, but I did find I did find some info that was saying that um
clothing may have been found in the creek. And this would be the point of Deer Creek that would be nearest where their
bodies were found. Mhm. So, when it's but again, it's a very vague broad statement of clothing found in creek. We
we don't know if it belonged to the victims. We don't know if in fact that there was
clothing found in the creek. But what I can say this is when when they were searching for the girls,
there were helicopters that were flying overhead, and they were filming some of the search that was going on for the
girls. They They had not found the bodies yet. You can clearly see three or four
searchers. And And the reason why you can see them is because they're wearing those those those red
like suits. Head-to-toe suits. They're wearing these red suits, and they're in the water. And there's
clearly there's something there with them. They're They're examining something that they found there.
Again, that could have been the victims' clothing, could have been an item discarded by the killer that belonged to
him. It could have been Libby's phone. It could have been a weapon. Yeah. I mean, that Yeah, one of
Something was found in that water. We don't We just don't know what the significance is. One of the rumors I
kept hearing this week was that they were actually found, um but they were wearing each other's
clothes. So, whatever they were wearing before, they switched. And again, this is you know,
just one of those random rumors and then it becomes, well, weren't they both wearing jeans?
Is it possible that the shirts were just changed? Um who knows? Um But yeah, I mean there's
again there's We talked about that a bit. And to me, that would almost imply that the killer
redressed them. Right. Or dressed them. It doesn't have to mean that, but that's where your mind
goes. uh size-wise, they're different size girls and and but I could see a a situation where, you know, the the
pants were put back on correctly, but maybe the shirts weren't. So Well, yeah, Abby had that
that zip-up sweatshirt. Yeah. So it is it's a weird rumor. It's one of those It's one of those things
that when you first read that or see that, it kind of you're like, "Whoa." "Whoa, what is What is this?" And then
I really start thinking about it. I'm like, well, we have a very short window of time.
And there's a chance that a lot of things might have had to take place during that short window of time.
I don't know that I don't know that we have the time to redress the victim and get that wrong
afterward. Yeah, I I I I I don't know. And And again, the source that I have gone back to, I I brought this up
and again, it was something that they just didn't want to comment on. But normally that like I said, there's
been several times where I've said it, well, you know, ask questions, they don't want to comment on it and that
normally meant it was it was correct. So, but I guess I shouldn't assume that. Well, and for
anybody out there wondering where we're coming up with this info because, you know, I'm sure somebody's going, "Well,
they've not released even the cause of death for either girl. They've They've not
released very many things true to the crime scene." Right. So, what is this stuff you're even
talking about? Well, the way that this works, for my understanding, is that some of Keep in mind, there were search
parties out there looking for these little girls. Some of these rumors are believed to
have stemmed from people that were actually involved in the search and may have found the girls or may have
been in There was a team across the creek at the same time that the team on the other side found the girls. So, we have
this whole thing where we have multiple people that were in that area, may have seen something that's not been released
to the public, and may have spoke and told somebody else of what they saw, what they witnessed during those
searches. Well, it's such or again, we have just made up stuff Right, but it's from from people elsewhere that are that
are claiming to have heard something. Yeah, but it's also such a small town. 3,000, 3,500 people, something like
that. just like like we've talked a little bit about it, but like the Pike County
murders, um it happened in an area where I used to work, but you know, a long time ago.
I'd work 1 day a week in that in that town, and just knowing some people from that town, the rumors that I heard
uh were not things that you would hear I mean, it would have made a fascinating um probably 10-part episodes on on the
rumors that I heard. Oh, you you heard like hours of rumors. We're talking detailed
detailed theories. With people's names and motives and why they did this and why they did that, why
what still what's still going on today that's in relation to this specific theory and you heard multiple theories
that some of them would have taken 3 hours to explain. And then then when the news broke that they solved it It was
none of them. It was none of those theories. It was yeah. And then I will try to make the long story short.
Basically, there was tons of these rumors based off of this guy that I worked for.
Um and there was all these weird rumors surrounding him and and I worked for him
for a long time. So I ended up calling him after I heard all these rumors and ask him what he thought it was. Mhm. Um
because this guy was very close to the family. Um every member of that family adult wise
actually worked for him at some point, you know, as like a freelance contractor or whatever.
And he simply said to me that he thought that the involvement this was all based around the custody of
of that girl. And when he said that and and this guy is a guy that he likes to exaggerate
everything. So you would think that he would want to tell these crazy tall tales. He said, "No, I simply think it
was a a dispute based off of um custody. Mhm. And then once they arrested the family up in what? Alaska? That's pretty
much what it all, you know, the Pike County murders was all about was that custody issue.
Um so so it's strange. I heard a million rumors and and they were fascinating and
they were great tall tales. Um and that's what I'm afraid that is going to start happening here.
Well, I mean it in a sense it has a little bit where you have all these people that are now considered suspects
by the public and then never publicly cleared by law enforcement. I'm guessing they've checked these people and
probably not too interested in a lot of them. Um but you not only did you have that
with the arrest of certain individuals, you also had that with the search warrants that were being filed
and executed very quickly after this this case broke. Right. Right. So, the the first one that hit
the news was a a home a property on Bicycle Bridge Road was searched on February 16th, 3 days
after they went missing, 2 days after they were found. Mhm. This location is approximately 5
miles from the Monon High Bridge, a 9-minute drive from the area. This was searched and I
don't know I don't know what their outcome was. I mean, obviously no arrests were made in
this in this search. But then you have another search that took place in a town called Peru,
Indiana. This one took place on February 25th. This is a different a good amount away. This is
37 miles away, a 56-minute drive from the bridge. The third search took place in Lebanon,
which I think one of the one of the suspects or one of the suspects' friends that we were talking about last week,
Garrett Kurtz, yeah, was from Lebanon, which is not uh um so, this says my notes say 54
miles is the fastest route. And the So, this would be an hour and 6-minute drive from the bridge. I do
want to point out with the Lebanon search, the the papers were saying that they were uncertain of the the exact date
that the search warrant was executed, uncertain of the exact address known. Um which makes me wonder if it is in
fact connected to the Delphi murders or if it was just a search that was executed and people people's, you know,
minds Right. Right. were were filling in the blanks and and that's what they came
up with. But, obviously one that was connected was the fourth search and probably the most
public of all four searches was in Delphi, Ron Ronald Logan's property. But, they didn't execute that sort
search warrant until March 17th. Now, we all know that Logan eventually gets arrested for illegally operating
his vehicle. But, I mean, this is a guy if he's not connected, which I don't think that he I don't think he looks
like Bridge Guy. I don't think his physical description looks like Bridge Guy. I don't think his facial or hair
looks anything like what I'm seeing on that little bit of little bit of footage on Libby's phone.
Um so, if this guy is not connected, he's been looked at very thoroughly. He's been arrested on other charges. We
have to believe that if in fact they are Well, he would have been arrested before
you would be required to give the the DNA, I guess. I'm assuming now that he's in prison
that that they have that. We know that his property's been searched. But, one thing I did I didn't get to real well
with the the footage on Libby's phone, I think that you probably have a lot of audio
and and I want to get into the audio here in just a second. But, the reason why I think that we we
only have a very short period of actual video that we can watch and view Mhm. as
opposed to video of the inside of her shirt pocket or pants pocket is Look, the video that they released is not
great. Remember I said maybe the Bridge Guy got lucky that his his appearance is true
appearance is not well depicted in that short camera footage. Right. And and maybe investigators just got
unlucky with that. And even though Libby did her best to to try to out this guy,
maybe we're only seeing that short clip because that might be close to what all that they have. You have to believe
that they would show us one of the better versions of of of him, right? Right, because they
could pull the audio out. And just show us the image. And here's what I also wondered, too,
Captain. We're going back to the audio. You might have that that might be a part
of the the tricky part of not answering these questions for the public. When they go, "Well, you got to have more
video, right?" Well, we can't confirm that or deny it. They're not lying. They may have more video. It's just
39 minutes of 40 minutes of video is is unwatchable. Right. It's blacked out. Yeah, and then on top of that so so for
the audio, then people go, "Well, do you have more audio?" Well, they might, but
here's my opinion, too. If if you if this guy if Bridge Guy had a gun, if he had a firearm,
there might be a decent amount of talking at the very early parts of that abduction.
And the closer they get to the murder part of the abduction, the less talking is going to go on.
At least from the perpetrator in my mind. He's going to direct them as he goes. And unless they are
unless they are you know, trying to talk him out of whatever he's going to do, there might not be a ton of audio from
him. Now, I do find some of the stuff regarding cell phones to be very very interesting in this case. Mhm. So,
what we were able to determine and find was actual footage of Mike Patty. He's the grandfather of of Libby.
He's He's talking the night that they are missing. He's being interviewed for the news the night that they are
missing. Yeah. And he's talking about they have already checked her Snapchat and her
social media. So, as terrifying as that is to think about, we do know that by that point before
midnight that night, his family, the Germain family, the German family, I'm sorry,
had seen the Snapchat photo taken from 2:07 p.m. of Abby on the bridge. Right. They were probably following her on
Snapchat like they were connected. Yeah. Yeah. And so, during that same interview
is when he says that her phone had pinged around town a couple of times. He does go on to say,
let me see here, his exact words, I don't know exactly what time that interview was taking place.
Cuz I I don't think that it was live. I think it was filmed and then played. But in the interview, he's saying that
the phone went dead, stopped pinging about 4 or 5 hours ago. Okay. And that broadcast that I'm
talking about, it came out before midnight that night. So, this is where everybody got all worked up and got all
concerned about the the Mike Patty's words. A couple of things. Some people came out and said, "Oh, the
family had Libby's phone." No, that's not what he says. Listen to his words. He says, "We were checking
her social media accounts. We were checking things that we could check without having her phone." My
thought is because of her age, they either had her passwords and her login information. Or they followed her,
right? Right. So, they could then just see what she posted, but I think that I think it's more in depth. I think they
probably had her login information or her passwords. But I also think maybe if they didn't know that that the sister
knew. And then then that way they could just check that stuff. You know, cuz cuz
they How are they going to have How are they going to have her phone the the night that they go missing when
they haven't even been found yet? Right. Right, but but but that's the thing though. People mishear things.
And rather than double-checking it they just people are stupid. They just roll with it. They just run
with it and they're like, "Oh, he said they have her phone." And then then then they're like, "Well, that's weird. Why
would they You know, then they're starting to think that the family's involved." The family's not involved,
okay? The family didn't kill these girls. Well, the the direct family that we know of, right?
Yeah, but but but again, then There's not a lot of suspicious on the outside members. I'm just saying.
But even even take that a step further, then they're not covering for anybody either.
Right. You know what I mean? There's no there's no realistic reason to believe anybody would cover for anybody if
if you have those ties to the victims. It just doesn't make any sense. No. So, so they didn't have her phone. We know
that. It's just something that people misread, people misunderstood, and then created
that rumor. And then on top of that with it pinging with her phone pinging in more than one location through town,
it wasn't the phone wasn't traveling around that night. It wasn't going anywhere. And as Kelsey
later explains in her YouTube video, the town is so small that in certain areas if you walk from one side of your
property to the other side of your property, your your phone will ping off of two different towers.
Because that's just just the If you look at the cell phone tower information in that area, it makes sense. It totally
makes sense. Right, and I think this is not information that she just knew. I think this is information that that they
probably got from FBI or or some kind of law enforcement. Now, the other thing with that though, too, then some people
go, "Well, the the the German family, they seem to be going into panic mode very quickly.
It was only a very short period of time that you know, we're talking we talked about the timeline the other day. It's
the longest that you can stretch it out is less than 2 hours from drop-off time to
to the time where you're almost in full search mode. You're you're a little over
2 hours, you're now alerting other family members. New family members are showing up to the scene looking for the
little girls, and then by 5:30, so at the very earliest that they got dropped off, 1:30, 1:35, 1:40, somewhere
in that time range, and then reported missing to the police by 5:30 that night. Some people
suggesting that they're sounding the alarm very quickly. But I think the problem with that is
it's a little girl, and I I don't think people are putting enough thought into it. So, you know, when you and I did you
and I did the exercise last week where we were we were playing this scenario out
out loud, talking through it. We're going, "Okay, well, what what would happen in this situation?" Okay, so
Derrick, the father, goes to pick them up. It was arranged that they would be picked up around the
time that Derrick arrived. And then on top of that, he tried calling her at least twice. Nobody
answered the phone. He walks around looking for them on the trails, does not find them, and then
notifies Becky. Becky's the grandmother who gave permission to Libby to go to that area that day provided that she had
someone to drop them off and someone to pick them up, and that those the drop-off and pick up were prearranged.
That was part of the rules. So, as soon as he notifies Becky, it's a very quick call from Becky to Kelsey to
go, "Did it Did you in fact drop the girls off? Are you still with the girls?" Mhm. And then you hear from Kelsey,
"Yes, they were dropped off. I'm at No, I'm at my boyfriend's house. I'm getting
ready to go to work." It's not crazy to believe How much longer after that do they see the
Snapchat photo of of video proof evidence, picture evidence of Abby on the bridge?
And then you're there looking for them and you're going, "Oh my god, they they were here. Nobody seen them. What the
hell's going on?" And mind you, it's February. Well, I think It's going to get dark between 5:30 and
6:00 that night. Mhm. Well, and I also think sometimes they just have gut feeling.
Right. gut feeling is telling you something bad happened or is the picture of bridge guy
also in this Snapchat feed? So, you see some pictures of them at the park. You see them going over the bridge
and then the next picture you see is just of a of a man. That would be alarming for any parent.
Terrifying. For any parental figure. Well, and not only that, even if they didn't see him on any
of the of her social media stuff. Mhm. Which I Which I don't I don't think that they did, but again, we don't we
can't say 100%. Mike Patty arrives on the scene around 5:00. We know that once he gets there,
he goes to the Meers property. And while on the Meers property, he's calling a friend of his who is a police officer.
Mhm. We don't know what that conversation is, but you don't have to have much bigger of a brain than I got
to figure out what they probably talked about. It's probably a friend calling in
asking for advice going, "Look, man, um I'm over here by Moonen Heights Bridge over at the park area. Been looking for
my granddaughter. We can't find her. We only dropped her off about 1:30 to 1:45,
so it's not been that long. What should I do? Should I report her missing? Should I just sit tight? What
do I do? And that's just he probably got some good friend advice who's saying, you
know what? You got nothing to lose by reporting her missing. Right. So hopefully you report her missing and you
find her 15 minutes later and we can call the whole thing off. Yeah. But it was right. It was getting
it was going to get dark though and it was February. And yeah, so I don't think that they
her phone. I mean, we live in an age that we're all connected. And so you can text somebody, they'll text you back
within minutes or you can call their phone. responding to anything and I know I went
on this long rant, Captain, but you said the most important thing out of that whole that whole deal there.
It's a little girl. It's a child. Mhm. It's a child. So It's your baby. I mean, and it doesn't matter. Look, it could be
a 20-year-old that went missing. When it's your baby, it's it's doesn't matter that they're 20 or 30 or 40 years
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at madison-reed.com. regarding cell phones, okay? So, and I'm not talking about Libby or Abby's cell
phone. I'm talking about cell phones of persons who were in the area around the Monon High Bridge that day, within that
short window of time of when they went missing. Maybe maybe even back it up a few hours beforehand, maybe even back it
up an hour and a half or so afterwards. Remember they were interested in the car
that could have been there as long as from noon to 5. Uh so, the the report that I saw about
this, I found it to be incredibly interesting because it kind of can take you down
two different roads here, right? So, the the statement that I saw was that they,
being law they being law enforcement, have reviewed everybody's phones that were pinging in that general area.
They've spoke to all of those individuals. So, that can take you two ways with with
your thinking on who are who is bridge guy. Did he not bring a phone with him? Right. Or or I guess have it turned off.
Yeah. Did did he not bring a phone with him to that area that day? Yeah. Or the interesting other thought about that
is remember the statement from the last press conference on April 22nd where they very clearly say, "We may have
spoken to you already, bridge guy." When they're talking to bridge guy, they say,
"We may have already talked to you." Yeah. And then you go So, that works both ways.
That that statement's probably very true. They've spoke to everybody's cell phone who was pinging in that area that
day. And it's either one of two things. Either this guy didn't bring his phone with him, or they've already interviewed
him. Yeah, so two things. One, if the individual turned their phone off before they got into the area, that is a
well-organized person um would make me feel like it would be difficult for them to get caught. Also,
discipline I would think that even if this is the first attack or the first murders by
this individual that they they're disciplined enough to um wait out for the right opportunity.
But back to what you're saying about the press conference when he says they might be in this a
room I think that's like the scariest line of the whole you know, we might have talked
to you. You might be in this room right now. And that I think that's the that every time I watch that um
press conference it gives you chills and and just like the weird weird actions not I don't want to say weird
but like there's there's a nervousness in his presentation where you kind of wonder if does he see
somebody that's making him that way? So very strange press conference. The yeah, that was you and I talked
about that within hours or even a couple days of that press conference. And one thing you were
pointing out you're like, well, when he said this person might even be in the room, is there somebody in the room that
he is means specifically that he saw somebody in the room that he does not like for any number of reasons whether
they're not being cooperative in the investigation or they're some other form of dirtbag or whatever.
Is is he just upset with that person's presence or do we have a situation where they've really
done their homework on this and said, you know what? We've talked about the strategy of the super cop. We've talked
about the strategy of publicly calling the killer a coward and calling him a loser and all other different kinds of
things you can call him. There's a strategy in that. Is there anything where he's going, "You know
what? I have to play a specific role during this speech, during this press conference."
And could that have been too much for him? Maybe. Could it have put him on edge a
little bit? Maybe. I thought he did a hell of a job. I I don't know exactly what he was
supposed to be portraying there, but I think that that was I think the words of that were not only planned out, I think
where they appeared in order was extremely timed out planned out as well. I think his demeanor was somewhat
uh decided upon in advance. That you know, don't be afraid to lean into the podium, to look aggressive.
Right. Don't be afraid to appear to get angry at certain points during your statement.
Don't don't to be afraid to to throw out a sentence and leave a long pause between to the
next one. Don't be afraid to be theatrical with some of it. I think there was a lot of a
lot going on there. It's I you know, I give I want to give him a a lot of kudos there because it's a lot
for one person to do. Yeah, there were other law enforcement there present that day, obviously. A lot
of them just standing in the background and and this guy had to do it all by himself with the with the whole the
whole presentation there. And I thought he did a fantastic job. Um but I but it also goes back to what
you were talking about earlier. The the motives, the method of operation, the how organized could this killer be?
Personally, I think he's probably extremely organized to the point where I think he planned out where he parked his
vehicle. Mhm. I think that I think he put thought into not only stepping foot onto the crime scene, but also fleeing
the crime scene. And the placement of his vehicle was thought out as such that it has to bode
well for both of those scenarios. Then on top of that, I think the reason for the baggy clothing on top and and
the multiple layers on top is he brought everything with him that day to kill somebody.
He brought everything that he thought he was going to need in that scenario to kill somebody. And
it's all concealed under those layers. And that might be another reason why he may appear to be chubbier
or more heavy-set than what he actually is. And again, we might just be getting a
bad a bad look at this guy. And again, I think they're giving us the best look that they got from her her
footage. Now, there there is one interesting part in there. If you really slow that that
that small clip down, there's a part where it looks like somebody may have blocked something out
from that picture. That may have may for just a split second that we saw something that the public is not
supposed to see. I don't know if it would have been a weapon or or or something else. It would have to be
something significant. It wouldn't be something There's no reason for them to to disguise this individual anyway. So,
they're not trying to to stop us from seeing him from seeing bridge guy. But I I think that they're concealing
something there. That might be the gun as he approached the girls. Mhm. The other thing that I want to address
here real quick is is a couple things. We John Douglas you know, my hero. You're my hero, John Douglas. You're my
hero. I still think we should do the Wayne's World. We're not worthy. We're not worthy. We're scum. I saw a short
interview with him after the 422 press conference. And look, it was one of those interviews. You ever
see like an interview where they you know, John's just standing there. It was supposed to be just a casual real quick
interview. But you ever see one where they they have the interview, they've clearly
brought it back to the news station, they've cut it up the way that they want to cut it up, but instead of just
letting you view the entire interview, the- you're getting the news anchor that just
talks the whole time. And they'll show a very quick little answer of his. I would
have loved to have heard everything he had to say about his thoughts on who bridge guy is and what's going on with
the investigation. But the one thing he did say, which which was fascinating, but it's also not
like it it it's not like the most brilliant thought that nobody else would have thought of.
But when he heard the audio of guys down the hill. Guys down the hill. He was saying that the the casualness of
choosing the word guys, it he said it almost felt to him like it was somebody that was used to talking to
people of that age. Yeah. Addressing a group of people in that age. And he almost felt like it was like like
something he would expect to hear a teacher say. Yeah. guys, like come on. driver. Yeah, guys, cut it out. Right.
Guys, all right, it's time to come inside. You know, something like that. Um I found that interesting one for for
multiple reasons, but but one just the simple fact of who would have been available at that same time.
Bridge guy, that's the thing. In their profile, when they're talking about identifying who the suspect could be,
who bridge guy could be, this is somebody that was unaccounted for for a certain period of time on February 13th,
2017. This is somebody who have may have made up an excuse why they were accounted for
during that time. Here's the other problem, though. This is where law enforcement may have just got unlucky.
This also may be a guy that did not need to be accounted for that day for any number of reasons. Maybe he
doesn't have anybody to answer to. Maybe he has nobody to He lives alone, works for himself, was
unemployed. You know, there's there's a bunch of reasons why he wouldn't have anybody to
answer to. Yeah. And a garage. Yeah. Yeah. With his friend. With his who can't remember what day it is.
Yeah. Uh but no, these are all reasons why law enforcement might just be simply unlucky
at this moment and bridge guy is getting lucky. I hate bridge guy. will run out. His luck will run out. But
the reason why I point this out is there's starting to be As soon as that second sketch came out, there's starting
to be a lot of people that have concern now with the investigation and with the state of the investigation.
seems like uh incompetence. Right. Right. And and I Look, I don't know what to make of the
two sketches. I'm just pointing out that that it's possible that what some people may be
thinking is them being incompetent might just be bad luck at the moment. Might just be bad luck at
the moment. The other thing, too, that I want to point out with being organized or
disorganized, again, I think whatever he thought he was going to need to carry out this crime, he brought with him that
day. He brought with it That was on his person. Now, that tells you several things about the the makeup of this
individual. He may have very likely have gone there with the intention of killing that day.
We don't know what else he did to the victims, but we also can't expect that he went in
there planning that he was going to kill two victims that day. That might not have been part of his
plan. It might just have been like we stated earlier that he was looking for someone
to put themselves in a compromised position at the other side of that bridge. And if he was looking for a female,
he does not have to be a pedophile or a registered sex offender to have committed these murders.
He may have just been looking for a female. May have even gone there hoping to see an adult female jogger by
themselves. Mhm. And attack them, but did not did not find his victim. Did not find whoever
fit his victimology. And he saw these two girls who I think his victim his victimology is
more so of whoever would be compromised, would be alone, and would be give him the better percentage
of getting away with this. Rather than having us a specific victim in mind. Does that make sense or
did I get too weird with it? I think it makes sense. Basically, you're saying that he's going
to go there. He's going to find the opportunity as long as they fit a certain criteria that's good enough.
Yeah, cuz I've had many good conversations with several people over great beers on this case cuz this case is so
captivating right now. It's on everybody's minds. And some of the people have said, well,
it you know, not only do we have the video and the audio, but we know that we're looking for a killer. We know that
we're looking for a pedophile. I don't think that we know that. I don't think we know that last part. I even I
don't even think if we know the first part. I think, you know, to be on these trails
Man, let's go down this road just for a second. To go on those trails, you have you
might you might just be an individual that carries a gun with you. To to go on these trails, to be outdoors
person, you might just carry a knife with you. Is it is it possible um I don't think it's out of the realm of
possibility after 2 years with all the information that we have, we have video footage, we have audio footage, we have
these sketches, we have eyewitnesses. Um we have a lot of things going on there.
Is it possible that that this individual uh this was their first time? Uh and and this has been their only time
so far because uh how how scared they are now that they're going to get caught. Well, certainly possible.
Um Yeah, I don't want to play the possibility game cuz There's Yeah, there's Everything's possible.
into trouble. I I like to look at what we what we think we know, what what we do know first. What we think we know or
what we can surmise by putting other facts together. But I was trying to put out that evidence. I mean, to me, that
me it means something that we're this far along, we have this many people talking about it, and sometimes it feels
as if we have nothing. You know, so like I'm saying it's not out of the realm of
possibility that somebody's on the trail that day with certain items. Um but I but but I don't know. I think this
Personally, I think this guy had a kill kit with him. I think it was concealed underneath
those layers of clothing. And I don't think it's the first time that he threw that kill kit in his
vehicle or put it on his person and went walking around. I I agree with with your statement that
he he very likely may have never killed anybody before and may I I don't think so. afterward. John
Douglas says you don't just wake up one day and go out and kill two kids. So, I think I think what's probably correct is
somewhere between your statement and John Douglas's statement. I'm going to go with my statement.
And Here's the thing. What's his credentials? If if this guy is if bridge guy is was 18 or 19 at the
time, Remember, we have Mhm. We have from 18 to 40 years old. If he was 18 or 19 at the time,
I'm going to go with you, Captain, that it's very likely that he's never committed he's never committed a murder
before. If he's closer to 39 or 40 at the time, I feel like he's either committed a murder before or
has attempted to or or or attacked somebody in some Right. some fashion where maybe maybe he
was out scaring the hell out of people one day or and it doesn't have to take place in Delphi. It could take place
elsewhere. It It's It's just one of those things. It It seems very strange to me that for
what I believe he would have need to have brought with him to the bridge that day,
seems like a lot seems like a quite a bit of stuff to bring with you to the point where I I have to call it a murder
kit. I have to call it that. So, I necessarily don't think he had to bring a lot. I mean, you if he had a
gun, you can control them. Uh but based off their age, maybe you can control them just with a knife.
Maybe you all you have to do is have one individual and then the other one's just going to
do what you say because you have that individual under lock, so you can control both victims
with a a knife. Uh that's a possibility. Riskier, but you know, as far as what we know, we
don't know what the person It's not like they you know, the murders happened where
they happened because cuz they had to happen that place. Um or that you know, or that the guy got
spooked. We don't know any of that information. I mean, it's very likely that that's the case. Uh where
was he heading with these individuals? Maybe it was just across the river. Maybe it wasn't.
Uh you These are These are questions we don't have answers for. Yeah, and I and I don't want to go too
far down the road that we're currently on because look, I we we we know that he abducted
them at some point. We know that they were killed and we know that he fled fled that area.
I don't want to spend too much time on what could have happened, what could have been going on from the time he
abducted them to the time he left. Right. Um I have a lot of thoughts on that and
and and and feelings on that and suspicions, but I don't I don't it's not something that I'm very comfortable in
this area discussing. It it it does us not a whole lot of good cuz it's stuff we don't we just don't know. Right. We
just don't know. But I I I will say this, I believe that this individual, that bridge guy, went
to that area that day prepared to kill. And knowing that he very likely might kill
somebody there that day. I don't think that the girls were targeted in a sense that he met them
there or that he followed them from anywhere or that he knew either of them beforehand.
I think he was there scoping and looking for a victim. Just like a hunter would sit there looking waiting for a prey.
He was there that day prepared to do what he came to do. And if something presented itself
he was going to make a move. So, I I I think he can be considered organized in the sense that that he he seems to be
one prepared to do whatever it was that that he was motivated to do. Uh-huh. He was organized enough that we don't have
a vehicle description. Uh-huh. He you can argue the cell phone thing either way. Maybe he was smart enough to
know "Hey, I don't want to risk bringing these things with me." Right. Uh or is there a chance he thought he heard
something or he got spooked and and and intended to to take the cell phones with
him but got spooked and ran out of there faster than he wanted to. And then he gets back to his car, gets
home, or wherever and and and and half hour later he's going "Oh, I [ __ ] I forgot the cell phones."
So I think you could argue that either way or he was smart enough to get know that
he didn't want that that thing with him. It also appears that he very likely may
not have been carrying his phone with him at the time. Mhm. I don't know. This This is it's it's a it's a very
interesting case in the sense that it's one that you feel like you should have so much information and you really
you really just don't. And when you really put the timeline together and you start looking at a map of this area, I
encourage everybody to do that because if anybody sitting there and they're confused about the case, Mhm. that
should end it right there. The timeline and a and a general map of of the area will provide you with a lot of ways to
it's going to help you kind of see how this thing probably played out and how very quickly everything moved along
that day. It's also 100% horrifying and terrifying to think that look, this wasn't this was
not a dangerous area. This was not like a place that you wouldn't allow your young teenage girls to go to.
This was somebody that and and I think that's why he chose this area. I think he chose it for a couple reasons. One, I
think he thought he would very likely find somebody by themselves. Not only would they be by themselves but
this is an area that it's not like you're not seeing a lot of what's going on. You're not near a whole bunch of houses
where you might hear what's going on. And then on top of that he picks a picks a
time of day when it's likely to have fewer people there than than most. He may or may not have known that there was
going to be school that day or not be school that day. Oh so here we are now captain over 2 years
later you and I there's nothing more that I know about the case that you don't know.
There might be some things you you you were kind of you kind of just let me go this last 20 minutes. I'm wondering if
there's things about the case you know that I don't know. Well, there's a possible another suspect
um that is kind of on the under surface like another guy with a bulbous nose. Um he he's the
I believe he was a firefighter and he I guess at some point was to be connected with the searches for the
girls and he was arrested for I think whipping out his He whipped out his [ __ ] [ __ ] and balls.
indecent exposure Yeah. Um how how recent is this arrest? Um I haven't looked much into it. I've I've
been Is is he a Look it it's he's clearly he's Okay, so he's clearly under the radar as
far as the mass population goes, right? Because all these other people their names have been put out there really put
out there. So he's under the radar as far as mass population goes. But is this I know his name but I'm not I'm not
putting it out. Right. Is this a more recent arrest? Was he is he just very recently an under the radar suspect or
or has he been an under the radar suspect for quite some time. I think he's been under the radar for quite some
time. That this indecent exposure may have may have happened shortly after the Yeah. May have happened as early as
2017? But that's what I find interesting about um uh this individual is one I could see
him um being um um bridge guy. I could see that. Uh also if if it's true about the
the the reddish hair, reddish-brown hair, um matches that description, also has the bulbous nose.
Um so yeah, it um it'd be a possibility. Not too young and not too old of individual,
but I I'll show you his picture when when we're done here. I know it's muffled, but when you hear that voice, do you put
an age or a ballpark age on that voice? No. I feel like to me, I feel like both the the image that I'm seeing
and the voice that I'm hearing sounds to me to be less of a window than 18 to 40.
I feel like I'm talking about somebody more like 29 to 40. 30 to 40. That's just But But I have
nothing to base that off of off of other than my own feeling. Right. But speaking of feelings,
over 2 years later, you and I know almost the exact same stuff about the case. Mhm.
After the last press conference, some people changed their opinions on what's going on with the investigation. Do you
think Do you feel how What is your confidence level on this case getting solved? Or as some have come out
recently and said, "I have no faith now, and I feel like they they may never get this guy.
Well, what I'm hoping is um I I saw this thing where they they should make t-shirts and sell these
uh for Delphi uh to raise money, but that they always say today is the day. And they say that they say that at every
day. Yeah, let today let today be the day. Right. is the day. And and the idea is that
yeah, they've been wrong quite a bit, but one day uh that's going to be right. And
you know, it's uh I think it's you feel bad for them. And we've met them. And we got to talk to
that talk to them and look them in the eye and and it becomes more real. And I can't even imagine what they're going
through. them, do you want to be more specific? family the family members. And so I I hope so.
But I what I hope is that there's enough hope from the family and the community that somehow it just
lets the universe works it you know, work its magic and and this screws up something and out of nowhere. You know,
it's kind of like the Golden State Killer type thing. It's like somehow the universe was like, "Okay, now we can
connect DNA to family members." and boom, this guy that seemed to be someone that would would never catch
we got him. And and I hope that you know, people can I know that seems a little hocus pocus
to some people, but I think if you have the enough people thinking that this is going to get solved that
Well, well, we all hope that that it gets solved. I think the the the real question is do
do either of us feel that it will? What's our confidence level that it will? How soon? Do do you put do you put
a timestamp on that thing? You know, there's really only one person that hopes that it doesn't get solved.
And that's the guy that we're calling bridge guy. Now, I feel I've not lost my confidence
level in this investigation. I've not lost my confidence level even after a different sketch, a very much different
sketch came out. Mhm. What I wouldn't mind seeing Captain, if they could apply it for us,
we have a sketch of what appears to be a younger man, uh that being the second sketch. I would
love to see that second sketch, that same image, that same person that I'm I'm seeing in that second sketch, maybe
with a hood on, a hat on, uh a hoodie on, some some dress that appears to be more like the first sketch,
because what we're seeing on the bridge there is a guy wearing a jacket and possibly a
hat or possibly a hoodie. I would like to see something like that. Um we did take a little little criticism
of not playing the audio of guys down the hill. A few people have suggested we probably should have included that in
the last episode. I N short for Indiana, I N dot gov. If you type that in and look it up, you get you
get the you get the sketch, the most recent sketch, you get the image of bridge guy, you get several different
pieces of audio there, all on the front page. You get the video. And it also includes that website address
for the Abby and Libby tip at cacoshref.com, as well as some phone numbers there. But
keep in mind, the the sheriff have stated that they their preferred method of receiving any tips would be email
form. That way it's easier for them to categorize these things, catalog them, keep track of everything, keep track of
the proper information. That would be the most helpful way. I still feel like Captain, maybe this
thing could be solved. I have a high level confidence in that. I also have a high confidence level that it that might
be very soon. That it that it could be within the next year and a half. I think we just have to be patient with
law enforcement with this and trust them. I think they are handling it very well
and I think that as long as the the public continues to help that this thing will get solved. And it
and when they do finally make that arrest, that news is going to be big. That's going to be big. And it's it's
interesting that you reference the Golden State Killer or EARONS or the original Night Stalker, all the
different names that that horrible monster had because of his reign of terror lasted so long and he had so many
victims. But it was believed in that case that that we had audio. We had we had his voice.
That we may have had his picture. And just the evidence that was involved in that was almost as such that people were
going, how could this not be solved? How could this not be solved? And here we are
sitting here with Libby and Abby's case, same thing. We got the picture, we got the audio, we got a short video.
It It just takes that one person. And I know that sounds I know people are probably tired of hearing that, but
that's that's what it is. That's the state of the case right now. I believe they got the DNA. I believe
they're just waiting on checking it against the right person. And I also believe in this case, too,
Captain. This is something we won't have to get too far into, but we also agreed
off off the record that there's a chance that when this thing when they do make the the arrest
that the public might not be such aware of it right away. That there might be some things that
they need to do, want to do behind the scenes before that information gets presented to us.
Yeah. To be clear about this, our idea was that the it's possible that they have somebody
that they've already arrested for another crime. And maybe they've done some testing or
or eventually will do some testing, but even if there's a match with the DNA, they might not actually make
announcement. They might spend another 4 weeks to maybe even 8 weeks. I mean, it's gone 2 years.
The the key is not making the arrest. Like law enforcement has said, the key is not to make the arrest. The key is to
make the arrest and to get a get a conviction. Right. And if you have somebody that is
on lockup right now with no no real chance of getting out anytime soon. You have time to work on the individual
if there's there's reason to believe, and we won't get into it too far, but there's there's plenty of reason to
believe that even if they do have DNA and have a match there, that they would not mind having a confession on top of
that. Or further evidence. Whatever struggles you are facing from depression and anxiety to trauma and
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Until then, please be good, be kind, and don't litter.

Source: https://www.podbean.com/eau/pb-kv5q4-b9d0f2

Delphi Murders - Off the Record /// Part 2 /// 323 Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com With so much left to discuss regarding the unsolved Delphi Murders case we decided to leave the mics on and go off the record. Join us as we wrap up our coverage of the Delphi Murders. Check out our Garage friends and safe some ca$h with these codes! www.Madison-Reed.com - use code GARAGE for 10% off plus FREE shipping on your first color kit www.BetterHelp.com/GARAGE - use code GARAGE for 10% off your first month

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Brief Summary

The episode analyzes the unsolved Delphi murders, discussing evidence, investigation challenges, and community involvement in seeking justice.

Key points

The Unsolved Delphi Murders. Exploring the complexities and challenges faced by investigators in the Delphi case.
Speculation on Video Evidence. Discussion on the potential existence of more video footage related to the case.
The Mystery of the Found Items. Unraveling the significance of items discovered during the investigation.
The Snapchat Photo Discovery. The Germain family sees a Snapchat photo of Abby on the bridge, raising alarms.
The Family's Urgency. Within two hours of drop-off, the family is in full search mode for the girls.
The Press Conference Chills. Law enforcement hints that the suspect might be in the room during a press conference.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I think that there's more video, and this is pure speculation.

Suggesting the possibility of additional evidence.

4:30WatchJul 31, 2019

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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