Cameron Todd Willingham /// Part 1 /// 352 | Forensic Files

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chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] December 23rd 1991 in bluecollar coracana Texas this
is just about 45 M south of Dallas Diane Barbie was watching the prices right it was about 10:15 a.m. when her
11-year-old daughter Buffy ran in from outside and said Mom the neighbor's house is on fire Diane ran out onto West
11th Street and saw that the house just two houses down from hers was in Flames the man who lived there Todd
Willingham was standing shirtless and Barefoot on the porch his upper body covered in soot and his hair burned he
was screaming my babies are burning up he yelled at Diane to call 911 Diane's phone was shut off so she
had to run down the block to a neighbor's home to make the call at 10:24 a.m. Todd grabbed a stick smashed it
through the front window of the burning house only to have the Flames shoot out he tried another window with the same
result this was witnessed by Buffy Barbie Todd ran into the yard and kneeled in the grass according to
another neighbor he cried out my babies periodically while falling silent at other
times one photo from the scene that day shows Todd sitting on the bumper of a fire truck his head bowed down over his
knees his body language shows despondency when Diane returned to the scene Todd was standing by a chain link fence Diane
could feel the heat from the burning house and soon five Windows not previously smashed by Todd blew
outward then she said Todd ran to his Cadillac parked by the house and pushed it down the driveway away from the
Flames firemen arrived and Todd shouted at them that his children were inside in
their bedroom in the front of the house where the Flames were shooting from a fireman radioed for more backup
and said step on it the home we are talking about is a one-story wood structure a small
home firemen started to spray water on the front porch and into the windows of the burning house one firefighter
equipped with an air tank and mask was able to enter through the front door and proceeded down the hallway to the
kitchen a refrigerator blocked the back door of the house and the kitchen was empty of
people meanwhile out front Todd was becoming more and more hysterical a police chaplain was trying
to calm Todd who started telling him what had happened when a firefighter emerged from the house
with a 2-year-old in his arms he sank to his knees and the little girl's arm flopped
lifeless the firefighter gave the little girl Amber CPR meanwhile Todd rushed toward the
still burning house he had to be restrained by police chaplain father Monahan to prevent him from entering the
burning home restrained to the point that father Monahan and three other coracana police officers had to wrestle
with Todd and handcuff Him Father Monahan got a black eye in the process another firefighter barvin Smith
told investigators that when he arrived at the scene he too had to restrain Todd
from going into the home he told police that Todd was yelling that his babies were in the house and was acting real
hysterical he strain Todd from going onto the porch he said based on what I saw on how the fire was burning it would
have been crazy for anyone to try and go into the house Todd was taken to the hospital he
had burns on his shoulder face neck hands and his hair was singed he was kept overnight Amber meanwhile was pronounced
DOA at the hospital and one-year-old twins Carmen and Cameron were declared dead at the scene by a Justice of the
Peace the children's Mother Stacy was tracked down and informed of the tragic deaths of her children and the loss of
her home as she shopped for Christmas gifts at the Salvation Army this is true crime garage and this
is the case of Cameron Todd Willingham [Music] after he was released from an overnight
at the hospital Todd was brought in for questioning he spoke with fire investigators Douglas fog Manuel Vasquez
and police officer Jimmy Hensley Todd's story was this Stacy his wife left that morning to pay the water
and electric bills now the family was behind on several accounts this including their mortgage and When Stacy
went to the Salvation Army to buy presents for the kids after paying these bills the family had very little money
they didn't even own a stove they just made do with a hot plate and microwave and a deep
fryer around 9:00 a.m. Todd says that he heard the twins cry crying in their bedroom so he went in he got them out of
the crib gave them each a bottle put them on the floor 2-year-old Amber stayed asleep in her bed in the same
room Todd put a baby gate up as there was no door to the kids's room Todd went back to bed and fell
asleep later he says he was awakened by Amber's cries of daddy daddy she's screaming the house when he wakes up is
filled with smoke and he could barely see since he slept in the nude he said he felt around for his pants and put
them on while yelling at Amber telling her to get out of the house the house had no phone so he could
not call for help by this point he's crouching low and he's feeling his way around so he can make his way down the
hallway back to the kids room the hallway was filled with black smoke and the air rre of burning
materials he could hear popping noises that he thought were wires and electrical sockets
blowing when he got to the kids room he had to stand up remember he placed the baby gate in the doorway he stood up to
climb over the baby gate and at this point his hair caught on fire he put out the Flames with his hands and then he
got down on the ground and he started crawling around on the floor inside this room this room is now Eng s in Flames at
this time he's feeling around for the girls but unfortunately all he found was a doll he couldn't feel Amber in her bed
either at this point Todd later related that the fire was all around including the top of the walls and on the ceiling
but not on the floor this is why he was able to crawl and then walk despite being
Barefoot the heat became unbearable and burning debris started to fall on him so
he staggered out the front door this is right nearby where he is at this point this is when Diane Barbie arrived
to find him on the porch he told investigators that he tried to get back inside more than once including when he
broke the windows with a stick but the house was engulfed in flames and the heat was overwhelming investigators
asked Todd if he had any idea how the fire started he says he wasn't sure but that it seems that it started in the
kids' room since that's where the Flames seem to be coming from when he was staggering down the hallway he said that
he and Stacy had three space heaters inside the home and that one was in the kids room Todd said Amber got some
whooping in the past for playing with the space heater this might make sense too that the fire started with something
electrical since he says he heard heard snapping and popping noises one fire investigator though testified that he
found this space heater in the girls room in the off position Todd said he could not think of
anyone who would want to hurt his family he said he and Stacy had their problems
but neither of them could live without their children well most of these space heers have some kind of safety mechanism
if they tip over that they shut off but because of the time period you wonder if
they even had a feature like that he said of Amber his 2-year-old daughter Who Cried Out daddy daddy to tell you
the honest of God truth he says I I wish she hadn't woke me up the willingham's 50-year-old home was
severely damaged by this fire photographs show the chartred burned out remains of the walls and the floors in
the front of the house yeah I'll post pictures ures of the house and any of the reports that we talk about and all
the characters involved and all the people involved in this case I'll post pictures of that on Instagram at
truecrimegarage the melted artificial tree and singed teddy bear still soaked from the fire hoses is visible in
pictures of the scene as are the blacken kids beds uh bed and baby crib the back
part of the house where the master bedroom and kitchen are suffered mostly smoke and water damage the couple found
themselves not only in shock and grief over the loss of their toddlers but bereft of their home at Christmas time
with no possessions clothing or even money for funerals but rather than pity and compassion from the community for
grieving parents in the wake of a tragic accident instead the tide began to turn
turn the tide was turning against Todd Willingham now we said in the trailer Cameron Todd Willingham but anybody that
knows this case knows that this man goes by simply Todd so we will for the sake of making it easier on ourselves he's
just Todd moving forward as is typical with fires arson investigators sought to determine the
cause of the fire Todd of course gave permission for authorities to go through through the charred home he said quote I
know we might not ever know all the answers but I'd like to know why my babies were taken from me end quote the
assistant fire chief Douglas fog he was a Vietnam vet with four purple hearts he
had been a firefighter for 20 years and he was a certified arson inspector fog's
co-investigator for this case was State Deputy Fire Marshal Manuel Vasquez he's considered one of Texas's leading arson
investigators Vasquez had a background in Army intelligence and had investigated more than 1,200 fires in
his career fog and Vasquez went over the willingham's 975 squ foot house systematically and
painstakingly they said they went in with no preconceived notions of what happened Vasquez said quote the fire
tells a story I am just The Interpreter after examinating the perimeter of the home the inspectors observed that they
could open the back door and squeeze into the kitchen behind a refrigerator that was in front of this door the
appliance had been in that spot supposedly for some time the kitchen had smoke and heat damage but it was not
burned the fire started elsewhere The Men followed the hall hway from the kitchen past a laundry room and
then the master bedroom to the front of the house where a living room was on the
left and the kids's bedroom was on the right the hallway ended at the front door leading out to the front porch now
they noticed that the laundry room had what they considered to be weird posters on the wall a poster of what looked like
the Grim Reaper and then other dark themed pictures of skulls Amber was found under the covers in the
bed in the master bedroom this room too was determined not to be where the fire started but it was a different story in
the girls bedroom where the twins bodies were found on the floor fog and Vasquez
thought back to Todd telling them that he had crawled around in the girl's room and only found a doll but two of his
children had been right there as they continued to move through the home following the evidence they began to
formulate some opinions based on observations here are the things that figured most heavily into their report
the bases of the walls in the hallway and front rooms were charred indicating that the fire burned low down which
ordinarily fires burn upward irregular Char patterns on the floor were shaped like P pudles similar to what would form
when flammable liquids poured onto the floor burn in puddle likee formations the fire burned through the
flooring carpet and tile and burned so hot under the kids beds that the mattress coils were Ash white they noted
that the fire appeared to have burned low to the ground and again normally fires burn up high glass pieces from the
broken windows displayed a spider web pattern referred to as craze glass fire textbooks at the time attributed this
pattern formation to a fire burning extremely fast and hot as would occur with a liquid accelerant and then the
glass splinters as a result a flashover took place in the front bedroom this again is the kids's bedroom the
investigators perceived what they belied to be a burn trail from from the room shared by the girls into the hallway and
to the front door at the front door they found that the threshold was burned on the front porch brown stains
permeated the concrete floor as what might happen with the use of an accelerant V patterns on the walls are
traditionally considered indicative of extreme smoke and heat radiating upward from a burning object the fire
inspectors looked for V patterns to decide what was burning hottest and quickest to determine the point of
origin fog and Vasquez detected three of these V patterns in the home mhm one in
the kids bedroom one in the hallway and one at the front door these three distinctive origin
points showed that the fire according to this report was set so what it seems like they're
observing is that somebody put an accelerant down on the floor in three different spots correct
and that the fire was burning very hot from the bottom up be meaning the floor up and I think because Todd is visibly
no burns on his feet that they start thinking that this is evidence that he possibly started the fire himself
himself yeah so to put it in simplest form I think first of all his story his account of his movements through the
house before he exited the home don't seem to match up with what the postfire evidence is showing these in inspectors
right and then on top of that I mean really at at the most the most logical thing here is if you have more than one
point of origin for a fire somebody set that fire right you know an accidental fire is going to start in one
location and then burn throughout I'm sure somebody will send me a nice email that tells me that I'm wrong that there
was a situation at one point in the history of our world that a fire was an accident and it started in three
different points I would argue that and I'm sure investigators would argue that would be an extremely extremely
extremely rare occurrence if you can find three points of origin you've likely found an arson and as you pointed
out too if there was an accelerant used it makes sense that it would be poured on the floor causing the fire to burn
from the the floor up rather than wherever it actually started if it were an accident catching the walls up high
the ceiling and then burning in that manner right correct now I just want to be very clear so you're stating for the
record uh on this episode that you are not a fire expert I'm not a fire expert my only
knowledge of fire inspections comes from this case and a few other cases that we've already discussed okay are but are
you still the crispy Colonel I am okay the fire investigators sent samples of the burned out home to the lab uh the
lab determined that one of these samples did contain evidence of mineral spirits
something that is found found in charcoal lighter fluid yeah this sample that tested positive for accelerant came
from the thresold of the front door this is interesting too because we talked about that por Trail or the Fire trail
that the inspectors noted in their report the report pointed to 20 indicators of arson and concluded that
the fire with multiple visible points of origin was intentionally set again what
they're stating is that somebody would pour accelerant in these areas which all led to the front door which would lead
to that threshold where they found the lighter fluid correct directly from the report they are stating that someone
ported an accelerant in the girls room under their beds on the floor into the hallway and then out the front door and
then that person exited ahead of the Flames the burning hallway and door doorway prevented anyone else from
escaping out the front door or anyone coming in to help and keep in mind in the kitchen they surmised that the
refrigerator had been deliberately moved to block this back door right one of the
two exit points so the back exit point you can't get out because of the refrigerator the front exit point you
can't get out of because of the Flames if this was set up in this manner then it's I mean somebody intended for the
children to die in this fire right no survivors now that someone the investigator said was Cameron Todd
Willingham and this was a triple [Music] homicide this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the
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today [Music] all right cheers mates thanks for joining us cheers to you Captain cheers
to you crispy colel the arson triple homicide ruling wasn't the only thing that was working against Todd Willingham
despite initial witness reports that Todd had been hysterical and distraught crying out for his children yelling to
Diane and to have somebody call 911 right having to be restrained by firefighters and father Monahan more
than once some of the witnesses began tempering their statements and others came out with statements against Todd
Diane Barbie told police that she had never seen Todd try to enter the house she told PBS Frontline that Todd
was a very mean man and she commented to police that Todd seemed more concerned about moving his car than with his kids
being inside the burning home right Todd told police that he moved his car from the burning house so it wouldn't explode
causing further damage another neighbor said Todd did not appear to be excited or even
concerned about the fact that his kids were trapped and that he made no effort to go into the
Flames at times Todd was described as calm and defeated squatting in the yard or sitting on the firetruck bumper or
sitting on the curb and father Monahan too he dialed back his early statements that Todd seemed hysterical did he dial
back his black eye well he began to imply that as he thought about things more after this
event that he says Todd seemed to be completely in control and perhaps he was putting on an act people started to
whisper that Todd wasn't in injured or at least wasn't as injured as he should be let's get into who is Cameron Todd
Willingham let's take a look at this and but when we discuss his character one thing I want everybody to try to keep in
mind it might get a little difficult it's important to remember that just because Todd was not likable and in my
humble garage opinion a bad person that does not mean that he is guilty of murder right just because you're a
bonerface doesn't mean you're a murderer Cameron Todd Willingham was born in Ardmore Oklahoma on January 6th
1968 his mother had several children with different men she left when he was an infant and he ended up being raised
by his father Jean and his stepmother eugina Jean was an ex-marine who ran a very strict household Todd didn't always
abide by the rules but he was was very close with his stepmother Todd was a good-looking kid with black hair and a
big strong frame but he didn't do well in school and he got in trouble and he dropped out of school this in the 10th
grade after dropping out of school he turns to petty crime and generally just being a
hoodlum he was arrested a number of times this for things like driving drunk public intoxication carrying a concealed
weapon stealing bicycles shoplifting attempted auto theft and burglary the old bike jacking Todd
however was a charmer his probation officer paully Gooden said that he was one of her favorite kids and one
juvenile judge who sentenced him to probation said quote he just did stupid crap like steel bikes end quote it was
just a old [ __ ] turd end quote well Todd met Stacy kendle in coracana Texas when
he was just 20 and she was a senior in high school of coracana was a used toe oil town of
24,000 residents and really this area has fallen on hard times at the time of our story Stacy was from a troubled home
when she was just four years old her mother was strangled to death by her stepfather Jesus Stacy and Todd they hit
it off and got serious fast he moved to coracana from Oklahoma to be with her Stacy got pregnant and gave birth to
Amber and then again later giving birth to the twins right Todd Willingham was only 23 when he found himself saddled
with a girlfriend and three kids under the age of 3 years old and he had one killer mullet yeah that's right he he
had a mullet that won awards in different states well he and Stacy Stacy was a a little bit younger than him uh
got married a few months before the fire by all accounts including Todd's own admissions years
later he treated her very badly not only did Todd cheat on Stacy but he drank way
too much and he would leave for periods of time again though I mean this might prove that you're a bad person or a
douche canoe or whatever but that doesn't mean you're a murderer well he loved to play darts uh
he was known to flirt with a lot of women and again often drinking a lot well again to be fair I told you about
the Mallet so chances are they were flirting with him well I tell you what actually Captain I think that you see
this a lot when boys in their early 20s just aren't ready to be men yet they they've signed up willingly for grown
men responsibilities but due to immaturity they ultimately end up pooping in their big boy pants and not
being a real man at all real Stinky Pants yeah well Todd and Stacy's relationship was volatile too say the
least right when the fire occurred Todd was laid off from work and acting as a stay-at-home dad while Stacy worked at
her Brother's Bar to support the family on top of all of this Todd was physically abusive to Stacy the police
were called to their place more than once they there were even rumors he tried to induce a miscarriage when she
was pregnant with the twins by kicking her in the stomach one neighbor this guy just gets
better and better well that that's a rumor but we know the physical abuse was in fact a truth right but if he didn't
stop the physical abuse while she was pregnant then that seems like the room rumor sounds true even if he wasn't
kicking her in the stomach if he's abusing her while she's pregnant that can cause a miscarriage one neighbor
called the police saying that they could hear Todd hitting Stacy and yelling at Stacy saying get up [ __ ] and I'll hit
you again but Stacy said that Todd would never hurt their kids much less deliberately kill them she said that he
lived for his girls and he spoiled them rotten let's point out that the girl's autopsies showed no evidence of any
physical abuse right but this was inconsequential in the minds of many as corsak resident Vicky Prader put it to
Frontline about the community turning against Todd she said quote Todd Willingham had not treated his family in
a respected manner so he didn't get the benefit of the doubt that some people would
have prosecutors weren't sure what Todd's motive would be to murder his children there were life insurance
policies on the children but they were purchased by Stacy's grandfather who he was the beneficiary of a grand total of
$115,000 right but I think the one of the things that you have to look at when you're looking in at motive
here is we have a very poor family living in a poor area in a poor house right before Christmas depression is you
know is higher up during these times suicide rates are higher up during these times they're paying bills that they're
late on they're shopping at the Goodwill store to for Christmas they have three miles to feed he has no job you could
argue that by setting the fire and ending their lives that this is his way out you know he he's like you said
he signed up to put his big boy pants on and all he's been doing is [ __ ] in him so now it's going well let me take
these big boy pants off and this is how I can do it yeah basically I mean we have a situation here where Todd's not
going to benefit financially from the deaths of these children except of course that he would no longer have any
financial obligation for these three children as well the district attorney Pat Bachelor
attributed the alleged murders to quote the children interfering with his beer drinking and dart throwing end quote
after Todd was released from the hospital he had burns on his hands face and neck one shoulder and singed hair
and eyebrows he and a friend arrived at the burned out home in a truck blasting loud
music this to pick through the wreckage for salvageable items Todd was observed to lament the loss of his beloved dart
board and some neighbors said they could hear laughter and after a few days after
the fire people in the community held a dark competition fundraiser this to gather funds for the girls funerals Todd
and Stacy attended this and as Vicky Prader the fundraiser organizer put it Todd had too much fun for people's Liv
liking he asked the bar owner to put aside a new set of darts for him Prader didn't want to have him spend the
community's donations on these darts so she took money out of her pocket giving it to him for the dart set right now
personally I I understand why they're trying to raise the money and all that stuff but personally if it was me I I
couldn't even attend something like that it would be very difficult but but what
we have is a situation here where there might be rumors and speculation amongst the community there's been no charges
brought forth right or forward yet now the rumors as stated started to swirl that Todd was heard saying that money
will start to roll in because people pied him this of course did not sit well with any of the locals police
investigators on the case began to make note of circum circumstantial evidence against Todd
in police interviews Todd came across more as a patting himself on the back type for what he tried to do to save his
children the lead investigator Jimmy Hensley said to Frontline quote Todd didn't show any remorse through the
interview until I actually showed him the pictures of his children at that time he started crying you know I don't
think he was sad so much that he killed the kids as much as that it's coming to light that you you know he's a suspect
in it this is awful tragedy but we don't know how somebody is going to react first of all we have rumors and reason
to believe that this guy's character Todd's character is like you said before is of
that of a [ __ ] stain so he's just going back to that original character again that does not mean that he is um
responsible but once you kind of you know place his character with the evidence that this fire was started by
somebody this is what leads to his arrest right fire started by somebody who Todd admittedly says was in the home
before the fire started right so he is arrested and this was by a SWAT team on January 88th 1992 he was held on $1
million Bond while a grand jury was convened to consider an indictment against him an indictment for capital
murder came down on February 13th 1992 Todd couldn't afford a defense attorney so a team was appointed to him
this consisted of David Martin a former state trooper and Robert Dunn a local defense attorney who handled all types
of cases Todd was adamant that he had not set the fire and that he did not kill his children he was also adamant
about his innocence that when the prosecutor offered Todd a chance to plead guilty to avoid the death penalty
Todd refused to accept this deal his father and stepmother even visited him and begged him to take this deal but
Todd would not budge saying quote I ain't going to plead to something I didn't do especially killing my own kids
end quote well and at this point his own lawyers see the evidence and say look there is a lot of evidence against you
or at least pointing in your direction and I believe they advised him to to take the deal as well 100% and very
likely they probably shared the evidence with his parents asking them hey we can't talk sense into this guy right you
go talk to him at the very least as his representative because that's one thing we've talked about in other cases like
when the guy that had to that had the horrible responsibility of Defending John way gasey in court yeah he said you
know 30 years later he says basically what you have to do what your responsibility is when you go into a
situation like this and you believe your client to be guilty and John Wayne gasey
of such horrible crimes Todd Willingham of the deaths of his three children horrible crimes at the very least to
provide your client with some form of service your job is is to at least make it so that the state does not execute
your client well in this case reminds me a lot of like the Chris Watts case the family went missing they couldn't find
the family so all of a sudden you have the husband acting suspicious right but nobody really wants to to blame the
husband and in this case there's this awful fire these kids die in the fire you know right before christm
the the husband's acting a little strange and you don't want to blame him now we're to the point where he's
arrested and and everybody's looking at the evidence and looking at his character and going hey take this deal
you know and and at least you you won't be executed yeah the the trial State versus Willingham commenced on August
18th 1992 and it lasted just three days surprisingly the prosecuting attorney was assistant DA John Jackson The
Honorable Buck dougas presided in Jackson's opening statement he told the jury that Todd Willingham poured a
combustible liquid on the floor of the kid's room and then poured more of that same liquid in the hallway and out the
front door he then stood by and did nothing as the heat flames and smoke killed his three children
in his own opening statement Todd's attorney David Martin rebutted that statement saying quote the states theory
in the case is the most unexpected unprobable unreasonable scenario that we can imagine end quote he argued that the
state's case was entirely circumstantial now in a surprise move the state called its first
witness this was convicted felon his name Johnny web web age 22 it just sounds like a convicted Fain old Johnny
web well he was a career criminal and a crack addict who was in the Navaro County Jail at the same time as Todd
this is in January and February of '92 web was in on robbery and forgery charges he suffered from Psychiatric
disorders and was on various medications when asked on direct examination whether he had quote any
trouble with mental impairment or anything like that he responded not always Webb testified that he met Todd
while in jail and one day while the two were standing on either side of a glass partition that had a slot for you know
like the meal tray so that can come through they would stand there and where the slot is they could actually talk to
each other communicate through that spot because of the slot Todd broke down he says Todd broke
down on this one day crying and during this time that he's crying he confesses to Johnny that he in fact did kill his
kids the story Todd told Johnny web according to web's testimony was this Todd came home and found one of the
girls severely injured perhaps even dead because of something that Stacy did to the child Todd decided that the way way
to get out of this situation would be to set a house fire he took some lighter fluid and squirted it all around on the
walls and the floors in a pentagram pattern and then lit it but first he lit some newspaper
and burned one of the kids on their arms and forehead this to make it look like they had been playing with fire and that
that set the fire he says then he ran out of the house and refused to re-enter the home now according to web this whole
spontaneous confession thing went down in an area that was in full view of guards and other prisoners and right
underneath microphones connected to the intercom system that was monitored by prison staff and web had only met Todd
less than a month before Todd denied involvement in the fire to anyone and everyone including web yet all of a
sudden he decided to unburden himself to this stranger yeah I never trust these jailhouse
snitches well it in this situation anyway it defies belief to me I agree but often in these cases when somebody
from prison snitches on somebody else and they use them in a trial the prosecution was able to like gift them
something so so basically pay them for their confession yeah that I mean it's a it's
a favor for a favor essentially the problem on top of that in this specific incident is that this confession should
have been heard by somebody else or recorded on top of him just telling this other uh jailmate
right before Webb left the stand Jackson the prosecutor asked him Johnny have I ever promised you anything in return for
your testimony in this case to which Johnny answers no sir you have not now let's make sure that we remember Johnny
web's testimony the next States witness was Diane Barbie the neighbor who called 911
right she testified that she ran down the street saw the burning house and Todd on the porch and that he was
screaming then she stated that he started screaming ing whenever we came outside she said the house was not in
Flames but that smoke was coming from down low she admitted that when she ran to find a neighbor to call 911 she was
gone maybe 6 minutes she said Todd was hysterical hollering and all but he managed to tell her that Amber had woke
him up and then jumped off the bed and he couldn't find her in the black smoke she said that while Todd ran back and
forth between the house and the yard a few times she couldn't get him to go back in to save the girls another
neighbor this is Mr long arrived and just then the house blew up the heat was so intense Diane could feel it from
where she stood in the Daniel's yard this is the yard between hers and the willingham's right she could hear
electricity popping she said she said she could not tell whether Todd was injured but he had black soot all over
his arms and back and his hair and eyelashes were burned Todd pushed his car back from the house about 8 ft down
the driveway and then sat down across the street on the curb the fire trucks arrived at
10:26 the next morning Diane testified a small group gathered at the burned house
including Todd a boom box was blasting music from someone's truck but they turned it off when they saw her that
night Todd and Stacy came by and Stacy was crying and they were discussing that a neighbor was taking up a collection
and Todd and Stacy had bought some clothes for Amber this presumably to bury her in Todd said to Stacy in front
of Diane that he tried to go back into the burning house Diane's daughters both test ified that they did not see Todd
try to go into the burning home that he did not appear injured and that he appeared more concerned about his car
John Bailey the neighbor across the street testified that the day after the fire he saw Todd and Stacy going through
the debris he said quote it was not the attitude of people that just lost their children should have had but that's a
case in so many cases as people go well they're just act in different than I would and so therefore that means
they're guilty in those people's eyes it's it's kind of strange that people do that constantly he goes on to say that
it was more of a laughing cutup type of attitude Jerry Long another neighbor stated that during the fire Todd didn't
seem quote real excited he would holler about his kids and then stop and look himself over as if to see whether he was
injured long denied that Todd had cried at all but on cross-examination by David Martin
he admitted that in an earlier statement to police he had attested that Todd had
been crying he also said that Sparks and popping sounds were coming from the utility pole where the wires met the
house and that Todd commented to him that they had some trouble with the electricity one of the first responding
firefighters testified that when he arrived Todd approached him and told him that his babies were in the house he
could see that the front rooms of the house were Ablaze including the floors and the porch he entered the home
through the front door and noted that the back door was blocked by a refrigerator the Twins were on the floor
in the front bedroom burned Beyond any possibility of survival on the stand this firefighter referred to the will
inham home as the crime scene and Martin moved for a mistrial but the judge denied his motion he also denied
Martin's motion to exclude the inflammatory photos of the two charred infants corpses introduced into evidence
by the prosecution the firefighter whose last name is Franks continued to testify
he said that at the scene on the day of the fire Todd did not exhibit any symptoms of smoke inhalation
Franks also said that when he was at the scene after the fire to collect evidence
Todd was also there and was looking through the house for his Dart set and was quite upset about not being able to
find it right Ethel Baptist a nurse who was on duty at the hospital testified that Todd did a lot of crying and saying
that he should have died with his girls it should have been him instead of them she saw only small burns on Todd on his
hands and back and his hair and eyebrows and lashes were singed on cross Martin asked her if she knew that Todd had soot
in his nasal cavities and throat she said she was not aware of this but when press admitted that one would get soot
in these areas after breathing in smoke after carefully setting up the narrative that Todd willing was
self-centered calculated violent psychopath who wanted his kids out of the way so he could
pursue various recreational activities prosecutor John Jackson called Douglas fog the fire investigator to the stand
fog testified that investigators could not find any accidental causes of the fire including gas leaks and no
electrical shorts he said the space heater was off Note they checked this days after the fire so technically
anyone could have turned it to the off position correct the glass windows were examples of craze glass which can be
caused by fire burning and accelerant the fire seemed to burn low to the floor rather than high up there was a puddling
effect on the floor in the hallway and in the kids room indicating a liquid was poured the floor was burning underneath
the metal threshold plate at the front door this indicating the presence of an accelerant the wood under the aluminum
threshold and a melted charcoal lighter fluid container tested positive for quote mineral spirits of kerosene this
accelerant the the kind that would be found in charcoal lighter fluid woodf fires don't burn hotter than
800° and the degree of damage to the alumin umum threshold piece shows that this fire burned hotter requiring an
accelerant and the burn V patterns and puddling showed that the fire was started in three different locations
accidental fires don't start in three different locations fog's testimony was backed up
by Manuel Vasquez the state arson investigator he bragged on the stand that he investigated 1,00 to 1500 fires
in quote most all of them had turned out to be arson and that he never knew of a
time when he was wrong he said he knew the fire was arson from his investigation of the scene but also
because Todd had told him a story of pure fabrication if Todd had really looked for his children in the burning home his
feet would have been burned and he did not appear to have any signs of smoke inhalation when Vasquez spoke with him
days after the fire over objections from the defense attorneys Vasquez was permitted to answer a question from the
prosecutor based on your investigation and our examination of the scene and your conclusions can you tell what the
arsonist intended to do by setting this fire his response yes his intent was to kill the little girls the state
presented the two Pathologists who performed the autopsies they testified that the girls died of carbon monoxide
poisoning from smoke inhalation they also said that because of the charred nature of the kids bodies it would be
difficult to determine whether there were any surface injuries to the kids that predated the fire but that they did
not observe any internal injuries or broken bones an ER doctor testified that Todd had first degree burns on his face
and neck a small second degree burn on his right shoulder and a blister burn on his middle finger on his left hand he
also had soot present in his nose and in the back of his throat with a slight cough but his carbon monoxide level was
only 3% this consistent with being a smoker which Todd was and with all this daming
evidence against Todd this is where the prosecution will [Music] rest one to remind everybody to check
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Cameron Todd Willingham /// Part 1 /// 352

Part 1 of 2

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Just days before Christmas a horrible house fire claimed the lives of three very innocent victims. Later fire inspectors determined that the fire was set. Someone was responsible for the fire and for the murder of three. Join us in the garage as we discuss one of the most controversial cases from Texas. Beer of the Week - Texas Red from Rahr & Sons Brewing Co. Garage Grade - 3 and a half bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

Cameron Todd Willingham was accused of murdering his children in a house fire, leading to a controversial trial and investigation.

Key points

Tragic Fire in Texas. A devastating fire claims the lives of three children, leading to a complex investigation.
Investigation Unfolds. Fire investigators discover evidence suggesting the fire was intentionally set.
Todd Willingham's Troubled Past. Todd Willingham's early life was marked by crime and a volatile relationship with his wife.
The Fire and Its Aftermath. The tragic fire that killed Todd's children led to suspicion and accusations against him.
The Controversial Testimony. A jailhouse informant claimed Todd confessed to killing his children, raising doubts about the validity of the confession.
Todd's Emotional Turmoil. Witnesses describe Todd's behavior after the fire, raising questions about his grief.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I wish she hadn't woke me.

Todd Willingham reflecting on the tragic fire.

13:43WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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