Kevin Cooper /// Part 2 /// 220 | Forensic Files

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
with me as always is a man that is as funny as a barrel of monkeys, but that is it. He is the captain. Well, you're
as funny as a turd, Sam, which is good to be seen. It's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling on a
friend. Today we are drinking grapefruit double IPA by the hardworking men and women
over at Claremont Craft Ales. Garage Grade four and a half bottle caps out of five. This is a double IPA, so plenty of
hops in there and the grapefruit smooths it out quite a bit. Don't be scared of the grapefruit though, even if you're
not a fan, this is a great beer. This is strong, but still quite refreshing, perfect for the summertime. And this
great Claremont Craft beer was brought to us by our good friends. First up, a big shout out to Stan the man. A big
thank you to Stanley in Oakland. And a big shout out to Annika in Sweden. Next up we have Brooke in Vienna,
Virginia. And a big shout out to Tammy in Wichita, Kansas. Also a cheers to Mary in Redondo Beach. Mary is a very
big fan of the captain. And last but not least, we have Kathy in Cleveland Heights, Ohio.
All right. I got excited because of because of Ohio. Well, each week, thanks to all of you, we pull coldies from the
fridge. So, if you want to get involved and help us out with garage beers, go to
truecrimegarage.com and click on the donate button. And while you're at the website, check
out our store page and pick yourself up a very fancy schmancy t-shirt to help support the garage. And that's enough of
the business. All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk
some true crime. Chino Hills, California. 1983. In the dark of night, evil lurks around
a quiet house at the top of a hill. A sliding door was left unlocked, and evil makes its way inside the home.
A sleeping family are surprised and slaughtered. One victim survives and tells a story
that doesn't fit the evidence found at the scene. A suspect is quickly identified, and the
manhunt begins. Kevin Cooper is arrested, convicted, and sentenced to death for the murders.
The evidence was overwhelming. But was it suspiciously overwhelming? Did the police plant evidence?
Did they ignore evidence? For more than 30 years, Cooper has proclaimed his innocence from
a cell on death row. Can we trust the scientific results that were produced? Can we ignore coincidence after
coincidence after coincidence? We will continue to present the facts, and you decide if you think this man is
a murderer or convenient suspect. But remember, once is happenstance, Twice is coincidence.
The third time is enemy action. Is Kevin Cooper the enemy? And were his actions murder?
Welcome back. We got a lot to get into. Yes, and we know that Kevin Cooper was arrested for the murders of the Ryan
family and young Christopher Hughes. But the trial, Captain, would be moved south to San Diego because of
and this is as polite as I can put it, anger in the local community. Now, the trial began on October 23rd,
1984. During the course of this trial, we won't go through everything regarding the trial because we have a lot of
evidence that we want to get to later. But Cooper does decide to take the stand at his trial, and he does admit. This is
where we know that he admits to being in the hideout house, just 126 yd from the
crime scene. But he does deny having committed the murders. He admits that he escaped from prison. He admits that he
eluded law law enforcement, and he admits to being near the crime scene. He also admits to having some of his
what he referred to as {quote} roll-your-own tobacco with him when he escaped. Now, when they found him, he
was on this boat, allegedly, trying to rape this girl. Does What does he claim on that front?
Well, that he can just deny because he's not caught like red-handed, let's say. So, the way that
the way that this goes down is this. According to the to her, he rapes her at knife point on her boat.
Mhm. Later, she Remember we said that they were already looking for Kevin Cooper. Later, she sees a wanted poster
for Kevin Cooper, and she goes, "Holy crap, that's the guy that raped me." So, she calls and phones the authorities
letting them know, "Hey, Kevin Cooper is either in this area or at least he was when he did this to me."
So, he's not caught necessarily red-handed for that. He can just deny that. Now, he's not going to be brought
up on charges on rape charges against this woman because they're going to be seeking the
death penalty in these murder charges and attempted murder of this young boy. So, while he is at trial,
Cooper, he simply claims that he left the hideout house. He went back down and and these are his
words, quote, "I went back down the hill on foot at night in the same manner as when I walked up the hill to the hideout
uh following my escape from this prison." He states that along the way he started
stopping drivers asking them either for directions to Mexico or for a ride to Mexico.
Now, here's one thing that I was awfully curious about. If the cuz I can only I can only report what was presented at
trial. I can't report without having speaking having spoke to his defense attorney.
I can't speak to their tactics or what they tried to present at trial, only what was
presented at trial. One thing I've often wondered about in this case is, did the
defense attorney at any point do a call to action by the public and say, "Hey, did any Can anybody confirm this portion
of Kevin Cooper's story? Were you a motorist that was driving that night and you were stopped or flagged down by this
man who you saw on foot, and he either asked you for directions or for a ride. Because in my opinion,
if if we could find some people to corroborate that portion of the story, that might lead you to believe that he
is telling the truth, and that he Yeah, cuz how did he get to Mexico? Right. Right. So,
the prosecutor is going to claim that Kevin Cooper murdered the family, drove the vehicle to Long Beach, dumped it
there, and that he hitchhiked to Mexico. Again, I don't see any This is on the reverse side of this. On
the opposite side of this, Right. where's the prosecutor presenting people that are willing to testify saying,
"Hey, I drove this guy to Mexico from Long Beach, or I picked them up in Long Beach." So,
the way that this goes down, Captain, is it's February 7th, 1985 that the jury begins deliberation. On February 19th,
1985, the jury convicts Kevin Cooper of murdering Christopher Hughes, Douglas and Peggy Ryan, and their daughter,
Jessica. And also convicts him of attempted murder of Joshua Ryan. Yeah, and for this, he's going to be
sentenced to death. Yes. So, we go through that because what has gone on with this case since
1985 is we have Kevin Cooper who is proclaiming his innocence of these murders from his prison cell on death
row. And actually, he's almost been executed. There was one time, I think it was Was it 2004?
Mhm. He was hours away from his execution. They They were going to gas him within
hours of of when they receive a phone call stating, "You know what? We need to take another look at this. We have some
things that we need to look at." And that's what I want to do here, Captain, is look through some more of this
evidence that we didn't get to yesterday and take a look good look at it and try
to determine, does this point towards him being guilty? Do we have the right guy or
has there been a murderer out there on the loose all these years, for 30 years? Let's just list some of the pieces of
evidence that we went through yesterday. Well, the most damning piece of evidence
is Cooper's own words. He admittedly is at the Hideaway House within yards of the murder scene. Yeah.
We also have the cigarette butts that were found in the stolen vehicle from the Ryen's house. Yeah, one being a
regular cigarette butt, one being a rolled cigarette. We know that he rolls cigarettes. He claims that he had
tobacco from the prison. We also have his footprint or a footprint at the scene of the murders, which kind of
lines up with the the shoes that they would give you in prison. We also have the potential murder weapon. You know,
we said that a hatchet was found near the home as if somebody driving the stolen vehicle had just tossed the has-
hatchet out the window. And Beer's making me a little sloppy. And we we know that this is likely the
murder weapon because it has some of the victim's blood on it. Right. What it does not have is fingerprints
from Kevin Cooper on it. Right. We have smudges on the hatchet, but no fingerprints. Now, the sheath to this
hatchet is found in the hideout house, where he admits to have been staying. We also have people that occupied that
residence at one time stating the hatchet came from this home. We also have a missing We have some
missing knives that we didn't discuss yesterday. There's some missing knives according to the owners of this hideout
house that were supposedly at the home sometime before Kevin Cooper occupied it for those couple days and since the
murders they've not been able to find these knives. Again, he could have just tossed these
out as well. With the autopsy showing that the weapons used in these attacks would be a hatchet of some kind or ax
and then some kind of knife. So, we have now missing knives. The other thing that we have, Captain,
is we have the survivor, the lone survivor, the young boy stating that he saw three white men. Or
said possibly Hispanic, but what's reported most often is that he saw three white men and you brought up that he
said maybe four as well. Regardless, um Kevin Cooper is a single individual Right. and he is not a white man.
He is not Hispanic, nor would I believe him to be mistaken for either of those descriptions. He's an African-American
man. Mhm. Um Later, the interesting thing here though is later little Joshua's story changes a
bit. Where we have him telling Changes a bit. Yeah, we have him saying that bit more than a bit, my friend. Later,
his story becomes that the person that committed this, all he could see, all Joshua could see, his
limited memory of the crime, was seeing a shadow figure, a dark shadow figure with possibly bushy hair. Now, I will
say Mr. Cooper certainly had bushy hair. Yeah. Uh in all those you can see it in
his arrest picture when when they're walking him to the uh police car. He's got very bushy hair.
Yeah, see, I wonder if he was just keeping this style cuz it's just getting out of the '70s.
And maybe like he was really into disco, possibly. I think uh he was into whatever haircut he could get in the
prison at the time. So, here's the strange thing though. You have to wonder, why does this boy's
memory change? Okay. Well, no, I mean I hate to laugh, but the the the thing to me is when you have
you would think now now I'll go back and say this boy was hit on the head. We know that. Mhm. So, the early
questioning, can we even believe any of that? And if we're if we're to believe any of that, can we believe any of the
story changing so dramatically? And I just think they almost cross each other out and you should just not view it as
any evidence as at all. I think you're exactly right. And the reason why I liken this to I've
never been knocked out, I've never had my throat slit, I've never been attacked in the horrible horrible manner that
this Joshua boy was attacked in. I've never had to go through a tragedy or such a heinous crime as witnessing
family members being killed. I could only I can't I can only imagine what that would do to someone, let alone a
boy that young. Now, what I had to kind of think about is my own perspective, my own life
experience, and and I liken that to having a big surgery. You know, I've had a couple surgeries in my lifetime, and
when you're coming out from the medication, there's the there's these little pieces of memories that I have
coming out from this medication, and it they're they're weird memories. They're memories of, you know,
Doctor touching you. No, I I saw a person or two in the room. But but then when I'm when I'm
clear-headed later, Mhm. I have a hard time even figuring out what time that would
have been, what the person looked like, Mhm. how many people were in the room, things of that nature. And that's what I
see kind of with his story as well. And I know people are sitting in their garage or their car right now making fun
of me thinking of Every week, my friend. Nothing tragic, nothing crazy happened to me. I I just trying to put it into
some get some kind of perspective from my end why this kid's story could change. Let's touch up let's
Well, the other reason that his story could change is it doesn't fit the narrative of the police. So, let's just
play devil's advocate and then they go, "Hey, we have this guy. We think he's responsible. So, now we need you to
testify that you saw a single black man commit these crimes. And this is who you're going to point your finger
towards." Or you don't even have to say you saw a single black man because that's not what he says. You can just
say you didn't see three white guys commit this crime. Right. You know, and you could help a young boy along with
changing that memory by going, "Look, you've son, you've been through a lot. You know, you were your your family's
been wiped out. You were almost killed yourself. You were in so much pain. You were in and out of consciousness all
night long. What we think has happened here is that the the people that you think were responsible, that you think
were in the home at the time of the murders were not people that you actually saw in the home at the time of
the murders. These were rescuers. These were people coming to your aid later at a later time. And you were going in and
out of consciousness during this time. That is where those memories were created.
Let's talk about the sheath. Because that sheath was found in the hideout house. Now, there's been people that
have said the police might have planted that sheath. Why? Because they searched the hideout house and did not find that
sheath upon the first search. Right. It's kind of like the keys. Yeah, so the the problem I have with that I
think that's a leap by by people on the outside. I think that's that's a leap by people saying, "Look, they
searched the house the first time. If it was there in plain sight, they would have found it." Well, I want to throw a
couple things into the mix here. It was the home The home was searched by deputies, first of all. Second of all,
at the time that they searched the home, they may not know that this sheath that
came from a hatchet, it's obviously from a hatchet, is of any importance at all.
When you're doing this initial search by, let's go ahead and assume un- inexperienced law enforcement agents,
Mhm. deputies, low guys on the totem pole, going into this house, they may not have a clear understanding of what
took place at the murder scene. Right. They didn't see a bloody hatchet, so they said, "Well, this doesn't matter."
You You send out deputies to canvas the area and look for obvious signs of evidence.
Right. That's not an obvious sign. I agree with you there. Yeah, they're looking for a
a man covered in blood. Mhm. Oh, well, we didn't find that, or We did not find him. So, what happens is
later, you have the medical examiner who says that, "Look, a lot of these wounds
were caused by either a hatchet or an axe." Well, now, all of a sudden, a hatchet sheath becomes something of
importance. Two, you have a civilian who found the hatchet covered in dried blood
and had victim's hair on it. Yeah, we have fingerprints, but not prints, but smudges. Correct.
But, so the other thing, too, is there wasn't there a eyewitness um that was on that road or close to the
road of the house and saw um three white men driving a station wagon, the the car that was stolen? And this is
big because this points to Kevin Cooper being innocent because we have the Ryans' vehicle that was stolen. And yes,
I know that I pointed out that he did have enough time to steal the the vehicle, go to Long
Beach, make his way to Mexico, and check into a hotel by 4:00 that afternoon. He
had enough time to physically do that. The problem with that is we have eyewitnesses saying that there
were white men inside that vehicle. We don't have any eyewitnesses saying I saw a single black man driving that vehicle.
Let's talk about that car a little bit, because that car is, like I said, something that is very, very tricky when
you want to say that Kevin Cooper is guilty. Well, let's just you know, to be clear, there was a husband and their
wife and they're in the car. The husband believes he saw three individuals. The wife believes she saw four.
Now, I believe the husband was driving, so I'd put a little more weight into what the wife saw, because she wasn't
driving. She didn't have to pay attention on that level. We also have a situation, Captain, where we have an
eyewitness who states that they saw the station wagon the following day. So, we know that the the vehicle was not found
until about a week later. Right. Where was the other person that saw the vehicle? Okay. Well,
let me kind of go through this thought first. The The thought being this. With with the vehicle not being found
until a week later, we know where Kevin Cooper was during that time period. We know he was already in Mexico. So, if we
assume that he killed these people, stole the vehicle, dumped it in Long Beach, he would have done that before
going to Mexico. Mhm. What we don't know is where that car was for the next few days.
The problem being now that there's a witness stating that that car was being operated the day after Kevin Cooper says
that he was already in Mexico. Right. So, it doesn't necessarily matter where the vehicle is as long as it's not in
Mexico. I don't know that this witness has, um, stated who they thought was driving the
vehicle at the time that they saw it, but again, regardless, it doesn't matter who was driving it because we know Kevin
Cooper could not have been driving it. Okay. Also, further information, further eyewitnesses regarding this car. There's
a witness who states, this is from a woman who states that she is scared of being identified as this witness, but is
willing to testify under oath if necessary. She states that she saw three white people in the Ryans' car and they
were driving pretty crazy. All right. They said that they almost crashed into her vehicle. Her grandmother was with
her that day. She wrote down the license plate number of the vehicle that almost
smashed into them. Hours later, this is after the murders were discovered, the authorities
broadcasted a description of the missing car with its license plate. So, the person the person that's the
woman and her grandmother they see this broadcast. They go out to the car, they get the slip of paper from
which they wrote down the license plate number, and they say it was exactly the same.
And why do you think this is important? Oh, well, this is really important because
if we go back to the eyewitness, the sole survivor, Joshua. His early statements are I saw
three white men. All right, we're back. Captain. Cheers to you, Captain. Hey, there's a It was a really great
off-the-record this week. So, if you want to check that out, we did a kind of talked a little bit of the
update of Kenneka Jenkins. So, check that out on Stitcher Premium. That was a highly demanded update. Highly
requested. So, one piece of evidence, Captain, that we have not got to yet, which
I originally thought this could hold the whole key because, I'll tell you, for the past week or so looking at this
case, I have been swayed every which way. I One minute I think he's guilty, the next
minute he's innocent, next minute stuff was planted, nope, he's guilty again. Yeah, and
like you said, you sway every way. You go, "Ah, he's guilty, he's innocent. Maybe O.J. did it. Maybe it was Casey
Anthony. I'm not really for sure at this point. I'm very confused." The thing that we didn't get to, though, is a
piece of evidence that I don't think could have been planted. And it is hair. There was hair that was
found in the little girl's hand. She had was clutching some hair when her lifeless body was found. Now, I've heard
and read this hair as being described as blonde or brown hair. Yeah. Remember I said yet earlier that
one thing I don't like about this case is people presenting this case often have an agenda. They often want to sway
you in their direction. And one thing I've noticed is this hair being described as blonde. Well, guess what?
If she ripped If she ripped this hair in defense off of one of her attackers or the killer,
and it's blonde hair, well, we know Kevin Cooper does not have blonde hair. And actually, he probably has the
furthest thing from what would be described as blonde hair. So, I wanted to know for certain what color was this
actual hair because like I said, I think some people have an agenda and they describe things in certain ways to sway
you to their side. This I found a picture of the hair. It's not blonde hair. I can tell there's no way
anyone ever should describe this hair as blonde hair. Now, what I will say is it's appears to be brown hair to me and
not a light brown. A pretty as brown as brown can be. It's the most normal brown hair I've seen. Get down,
Charlie Brown. What I can tell you though, I do not need a microscope, I do not need a fancy degree or a laboratory
to compare hairs plucked from Mr. Cooper's head to the hair that was found in this little girl's hands
to tell you that they're not the same hair. I can tell I can Mhm. From pictures of the hair found and
from pictures of seeing him, Kevin Cooper, I can tell you that that hair does not match that person. You don't
want to run this through like some computer program or possibly call up somebody, good friend Rami
Malek, and and ask for a second opinion? I I I'm telling you I'm right on this. It's not Kevin Cooper's hair and I think
we can get back to that in just a little bit cuz I do want to discuss this other
guy. What? There's another guy? Yes. There's an There's another guy. Who is this guy? Well, some people that
point to Kevin Cooper being innocent have also pointed to somebody else as a likely suspect.
Okay. Okay, so this is what we know about this this person. This turd stain. On June 9th, a woman named Diana Roper
calls the Sheriff's Department. Okay, and she tells the Sheriff's Department that her boyfriend, Lee Farrow,
had come home in the early hours of that day. Okay, he comes home basically in the middle of the night. Right. All
right. He arrived at their home in an unfamiliar station wagon. A vehicle she identifies as a station
wagon and she doesn't know she's never seen it before. Right. She also says that he is with some people who stayed
in the car. She doesn't know who these people are, cannot identify them. She said that he came into the home, he
changed out of his uh overalls or bib overalls, whatever you want to call them. She said that he left these on the floor
of their closet. Mhm. He was not wearing a t-shirt when he had come home. He left
the house about some overalls, you know, without a t-shirt. He's just peacocking
all over the place. That's how he arrived at the home, correct? Mhm. She says that he left a short time
later and did not return for a long time, okay? Now, both this woman, Diana, and her father both have concluded that
the overalls were were covered in blood. Right. Two two eyewitnesses. Yes. And so Diana turns
she turns in this evidence to the sheriff's department. Mhm. She gives it to a deputy and she
says, "Hey, look, not only am I giving you what I believe to be blood-covered bib overalls,
but I'm telling you I think that my uh boyfriend, Lee Faro, I think that he was involved in those murders." She also
stated that a bloody hatchet found beside the road, the hatchet that we've discussed, matched a hatchet that was
now missing from her garage. Mhm. Like I said, a hatchet could be found in almost any
home. So, the police department, the sheriff's department, they They tested the overalls for blood that were turned
into them. Good job. Well, I don't know that all of them are to blame because what we have here,
these items were This item was thrown away in a dumpster. Okay, so it was not tested nor was it
given to Cooper's defense. So, phone logs would later back up a sergeant's story that he had retrieved
them and made multiple attempts to turn them over to uh the lead investigators. Right. And why wouldn't they take them?
I I cannot answer for them. Oh, it's probably cuz they have a suspect that's black. So, he's been he's been
you know, this problem's been brought to this person who collected this this item
and he's saying, "Look, all I can do is attempt to turn it over to investigators. If they don't want to do
anything with it, I can't make them." Now, about this Furrow guy, Lee Furrow, he has a bit of a background. He had
actually been released from a state prison earlier that year. He had been part of what
what has been dubbed and I should shouldn't have laughed, but Yeah, yeah. I'm making, you know, You're
a sensitive prick. He has been he was a part of a murderous gang. Okay, that's what it's referred to in the
newspaper. Mhm. But he was given a short sentence in return for turning state's evidence against the leader of this gang
who was, I guess, sentenced to death for this this murder that they were convicted of. So, Furrow told friends
that while he was a part of this gang, he had killed a girl, cut up her body, and thrown her body parts into the Kern
River. Now, this Here's another bit of thing about this Lee guy, right? The station
wagon that didn't turn up until about a week after the killings. Right. This is near the home of Lee's stepmother who
lived in Long Beach. Right. So, okay, back to these gang murder. It's just one, right? From my
understanding, it's the murder of one person, yes. A murder of one person, but how many
people were involved in the murder of this one person? Um that is not clear. But it's more than two?
Well, it would at least be Lee and this guy named Clarence Ray Allen. Okay, so So, at least two.
Yes. The only reason why I bring this up is because we have It's one thing to have
criminal a criminal past, right? Cuz we know that Kevin Cooper does. He would break into
cars, he break into other things. And but now we have a past of somebody that committed a murder
or was at least involved in a murder. Right, with a group of people. Yes, and I'm assuming that it's more than just
him and Clarence Ray Allen because it's referred to as a murderous gang, meaning
a group of people that have committed at least one murder. Right. Now, the the information that I have
and this is a very squishy, unconfirmed, speculative information. Squishy. Okay, so this information is
that the gang leader was Clarence Ray Allen. And he had raised the same kind of horses, the same kind of Arabian horses
as the Ryans. Now, remember they were not only raising horses, but they were training them and
showing them as well. Mhm. So, there's like I said, squishy, unconfirmed evidence that Allen may have had
previously threatened to kill Peggy Ryan. Why? That they had some kind of fight over a
horse sale that had gone wrong. Squishy. That he he felt that he was cheated. Mhm. Um and that she was
uh you know, threatened. Threatened her life. Okay, let me try to unpack this a little
bit. So, we have eyewitness that claims that he was possibly in their vehicle the night of the murders. Came home
roughly at a little bit after the night at the time of the murders. Came home to change, was in overalls,
was covered in blood. These were never tested. We also have the person that he lived with, the girlfriend saying,
"Hey." And also the hatchet that is the murder weapon, {quote} {unquote}, looks kind of like the hatchet that's missing
from our house. Uh also, by the way, we're into horses. He also possibly sold Well, the gang leader.
The gang leader. That he was supposedly a member of might have been into these horses.
Right. And this gang that he was involved in also murdered somebody as a gang. So, I mean, this just
How many more things do you need to tie to this guy? Well, there I mean, there are there
actually a few more things. So, there there is at least one eyewitness, if not two or three eyewitnesses, that claim to
have seen three white men at a bar at some point after the murders. And they believed that at least one of them was
covered in what appeared to be blood. Like had blood on their clothing. But people, you know, you would just
assume if you're out in public and you see somebody like that that it's you're not seeing blood. It's paint or it's
you know, maybe they were hunters and had it was animal blood. So, we have that statement. We what we
don't have from those eyewitnesses is them saying one of those men was Lee Furrow. We don't have that. We just have
three unidentified Caucasian males at a bar, one of them being covered in what was thought to be blood.
Well, we also have his girlfriend saying he came back with this station wagon with other people in it. And we also
have the couple that says, "Hey, we saw a station wagon with at least three white males in it." Well, and another
thing against Lee Furrow is this. Remember the vehicle that was being driven by the woman and her grandmother
was in the car as well, and they said they almost got into an accident because the station wagon was driving so wildly.
Well, she was later shown a photograph of Lee Furrow. To which she would say, "I believe that
guy matches the description of the guy I saw driving Right, right. the vehicle at the time."
So, now we need to talk about the shirt though. Remember we mentioned he came home, Lee Furrow, according to his
girlfriend Diana, comes home in the middle of the night, he's not wearing a shirt, and he's got these overalls on
that are covered in blood. He leaves those at the house, changes his clothes, and if we think that these three men are
the same as the three men later spotted at the bar, he's getting cleaned up to go out for
a celebratory drink after having killed these people. Yeah. He showed them a lesson after they screwed us on horses.
Well, one big, big piece of evidence against Kevin Cooper would be a T-shirt that was found, okay? So, the problem
with this T-shirt though is we have Diana Roper, who is the girlfriend of Lee Furrow, stating he
comes home without a T-shirt, and oh yeah, by the way, the bloody T-shirt that was found beside
the road leading from the murder house, Mhm. that was his shirt. It matches a shirt that I had purchased for him at
one time. She states that it's a Fruit of the Loom shirt uh with one of those, you know, it's a T-shirt with a breast
pocket. Right. And she stated that she knew this to be his shirt, because she purchased it for him.
Right. So, how's this against The big problem with this shirt, though, is it has blood evidence on it. Mhm. Okay?
And the problem with this evidence on the shirt Mhm. it points toward Kevin Cooper
his blood being on that shirt. Well, spank my ass and call me Susan. So, this is difficult because it's like you
were like you said before, you said earlier um you know, after so many times it can't
be a coincidence anymore. Mhm. But there it seems like there was as many coincidences pointing towards Kevin as
there are pointing to somebody else. I agree with you, but the but the the thing that Cooper's not going to be able
to shake is this T-shirt. And I say that because the problem with this T-shirt, and I I think I called it
yellow, but it's I I see a picture of it, and I think of it as yellow. It's often described as a tan
T-shirt. So, if anybody out there knows about this case, and I'm talking about the one in the same,
okay? They're the same shirt. Okay, well. Now, I don't trust you with that hair sample. Well,
if I showed you this picture, you would say that this shirt could be yellow. Anyway, regardless of what color this
shirt is, the problem for Kevin Cooper is this shirt contains his blood, and it also
contains the blood of Doug Ryan, of the father. Right. So, if this shirt was discarded near the
crime scene, and it has the suspect's blood, Kevin Cooper, and the victim's blood on it, he's looking pretty damn
guilty at this point. Right. This shirt is a big piece of contention for both the defense
and the prosecution. And not so much at his trial, at Kevin Cooper's trial, but later at his appeals, why? Because they
tested Here's what Kevin Cooper states. He states, "Look, they took my blood and
at some point they put it on this T-shirt." Okay. They put my blood on this T-shirt.
It didn't It didn't come from my veins, it didn't come from an artery, it didn't
come out of my body and go onto that shirt. It went into a tube somewhere and then from the tube it went onto the
T-shirt. Right. And therefore it was planted by law enforcement or somebody and that's how they've put me behind
bars and that's how they're going to kill me. The evidence to suggest that he might be
right is this, that later they test this blood and there's this Okay, so they find EDTA
Right, right. in this sample. Okay, what is this? This is This is a preservative that is used to
preserve blood samples such as the one that was taken from Kevin Cooper years ago.
Right. I think they found this in a couple of the samples with O.J. as well. Well, Cooper states that the EDTA that's
found in the blood on the on the shirt in that sample is proof that they took it from the
tube, that they tried to preserve my blood, preserve the sample and then they dumped it onto the shirt.
The problem with that is EDTA is a common compound found in hand creams, laundry detergent and other
everyday products. So, that being said, if this shirt had ever encountered any of these products like
laundry detergent, there would be some presence of EDTA found possibly in that sample. And has
the defense ever tested this shirt to see if there's any other blood? You know, because you know, they can
we have two blood samples here, but maybe there's a third. From my understanding and from looking at the
shirt and from evidence produced from the shirt, I believe they've only found two kinds
of blood on the shirt. One coming from Kevin Cooper and one coming from Doug Ryan. So, where do we go from here?
Well, that's the problem. Because You're the problem. the shirt when first presented with this evidence of the
shirt, Mhm. you go, okay, this makes him guilty. His blood was found on the shirt. Then years
later, you go, wait, they found EDTA in this sample? Right. Well, then it's planted, so he's
innocent. If it was planted, he has to be innocent. Or is there somehow that this guy killed these people and the
police just thought they were doing the right thing by making a case against him.
So, Well, the EDTA, in my opinion, actually doesn't clear anything up. Because as
much as it points toward it being planted, it also points toward it well, it could just be happenstance that it's
there. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I really want to know when Joshua started changing his story.
Because I think there's something there. You know, if you if you come out of this
traumatic situation and you say, hey, I think it was at least three individuals,
regardless of color, that once you start changing the story to, well, I think it was you know, one
person and you know, it was a black man or a man of color. So, I think once you figure out where that
story starts changing because there's again, so many For all the pieces of evidence pointing
toward somebody, there's pointing toward somebody else as well. Well, I Here's one thing that I don't like about this
case. It's the racism factor. Okay? I think that I think race and racism gets brought up in this case a lot because we
have this individual that might be wrongly convicted and he happens to be African-American. Right. And what I
Here's the problem with that. The problem is that all this does is murky the waters. All it does is confuse
things and cloud things. In my opinion, I don't think that the police went out and sought a black man
for this crime. I think if they had any prejudice about them, it was against Kevin Cooper, not against an
African-American man. Right. And what I mean by that is they can prove that he was near the crime scene
roughly about the time the crime went down. Very near. Yes. And so therefore, I think that if there was any prejudice,
it was against Kevin Cooper, not against an African-American man, if that makes sense.
Mhm. And so I think when people bring up racism and bring up this kind of thing,
it only clouds It doesn't help anybody solve this any faster because the problem is we're running out of time.
Mhm. This guy will be likely will be executed at some point. We stated that in the early 2000s, he was hours away
from being executed. And if you allow something like racism to get involved in this,
push that aside. Please push this aside because I think some of the evidence might be able to point you to what
actually happened here. Now, we should we should mention, too. Well, I think what you're trying to say
is that they get a couple pieces of evidence, right? And it's going against Kevin Cooper.
Does not matter what color his skin is. It's just the fact that we have this heinous murder we're trying to pin it on
somebody. Right. And they got cloudy in in that vision and had nothing really to do. These
heinous murders that you look if I believe if Kevin Cooper was a white man, this still would have happened the
same way it happened. Oh, I agree. I think that if police thought that I were in that hideout house at that time, that
they would say, "You know what? This is our guy." But it right, but the difference here is they wouldn't have to
have the key eyewitness change their story so dramatically. Now, did we mention that he has appealed this time
and time again? Yeah, and we Well, I think we have and I think we've also mentioned that he
has claimed his innocence throughout. Correct. Now, one part of the appeals process, remember we talked about that
hair that was found in little Jessica's hand. Yeah. Okay. That hair was part of his appeals
because they wanted to test that hair to prove that it didn't come from Kevin Cooper.
And it didn't come from Kevin Cooper. We know that to be the truth. Right. Here's
the problem with this, though. The hair did not come from the killer. The hair what belonged to victims.
It was victims' hair that was in Jessica's hand. So, this kind of backfired on his appeals
because it didn't point to the killer at all. Didn't help find out who the killer
was. We already know who the victims were. Well, in this case, it's so difficult
because we could have done four parts on the speculation and debating that, and that's not really what we're try We're
trying to get a little bit closer to the truth. And I think, um, you know, anybody that
has opinions on this case, please go to our website True Crime Garage.com and check out the blog on this case. Well,
the thing the problem with this case is this, Cap. We could have discussed it 4 or 5 hours.
But it would have It would have been We only recorded 2 hours of it. It The The problem is each little point of
evidence is a discussion topic. It's something that you could argue for or against the guilt of Kevin Cooper.
And when you start pouring through these item by item by item, it gets awfully lengthy. We didn't want anybody to have
to sit and listen to us pour through each and every single item. The reason being
is that in my opinion, let's throw this I want to take the shirt the the shirt with the blood evidence found on it,
right? Let's put that in its own little compartment. As planted evidence. Well, no, let's put
that in its own little compartment for now. All the other evidence, and there's lots
of it, none of it specifically names Kevin Cooper as having killed these people.
However, by the same token, none of it exonerates him. Mhm. None of it excludes him.
So, there there is the big issue. There's the big problem right there. Now, let's go back to the shirt.
Was Kevin Cooper's blood on the shirt? Yes. 100% yes. How did it get there? What Did
it come from a tube? We don't know. Did it come from his body? We don't know. put it on that shirt, if it was planted,
I hope that they come forward one day and say, "Hey, I did this and I was wrong." They probably won't, but they
should. Well, there's an individual uh his last name is I can't think of it right at this
moment. Um but we we know who it was. There was a there was a man that worked on this case uh that worked on some of
the blood evidence, and I will say this, there seems to be some shaky things going on regarding that operation.
Whether this could have been tampered with with it whether it was planted, Right. there's some shaky business going
on there, and that makes me not trust this shirt so so It makes me have a hard time trusting
this shirt. And the best opinion I can give on this case and as far as the guilt of Kevin Cooper, I'm not going to
lie to you. I think there's overwhelming evidence to suggest that he might be guilty.
But I don't have anything to pinpoint him 100% other than that T-shirt. And I don't trust I don't know that I
trust that evidence. Right. I don't trust a lot of the evidence. I'm just going to break my part down real quick.
The way I view it is you don't kill a whole family to steal a car. We have other people that are tied to
the to the family, have other possible motives. And as much speculation as there out
there, again, you don't kill a whole family to steal a car. You possibly kill a whole family and
steal the car because they did your gang wrong. And and in the autopsy when they when the
coroner comes out and says that they think that all these attacks were done within
a minute or so, Mhm. that that points to me as evidence that this wasn't done by one person or
couldn't have been done with by by one person. It would be if that medical examiner is right. It would be very very
difficult in my opinion for one person to have committed all of these murders in such a short amount of time as has
been suggested by the medical examiner. The other thing that I take issue with is that the medical examiner also
suggests the autopsy suggests the use of multiple weapons. The use of multiple weapons. And not
that not to say that one person couldn't have entered the home brandishing multiple weapons.
However, I just find it unlikely. I think multiple weapons to me points more likely to multiple assailants.
Before we leave, Captain, I want to wrap up with some words from the lone survivor, from Joshua Bryant,
and his thoughts on this case. He states, "I wish I could remember. I don't know if they think I have the
answers or that it's in my head. It won't come back to me." Josh says he doesn't remember seeing
Kevin Cooper that night, only a shadow. And he also says, quote, "I want to know
if he really did it. I couldn't live with myself knowing that there could have been a chance that he didn't do it.
That's not right." Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Till next week. Be good. Be
kind. And don't litter.

Kevin Cooper /// Part 2 /// 220

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Chino Hills, California, 1983 - In the dark of night, evil lurks around a house at the top of a hill. A sliding door was left unlocked and evil makes it's way inside the home. A sleeping family are surprised and slaughtered. One victim survives and tells a story that doesn't fit the evidence found at the scene. A suspect is quickly identified, and the manhunt began. Kevin Cooper is arrested, convicted and sentenced to death for the murders. The evidence is overwhelming. But was it suspiciously overwhelming? Did the police plant evidence? For more than 30 years, Cooper has proclaimed his innocence from a cell on death row. This week we discuss the horrific murders of the Ryen family and little Christopher Hughes. We will try to determine if Kevin Cooper is guilty of these murders. Beer of the Week - Grapefruit Double IPA by Claremont Craft Ales Garage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode examines the controversial conviction of Kevin Cooper for the 1983 Ryan family murders, questioning evidence and witness reliability.

Key points

The Chino Hills Murders. In 1983, a family was slaughtered in Chino Hills, California, leaving one survivor.
Kevin Cooper's Arrest. Kevin Cooper was arrested and sentenced to death for the murders, but he claims innocence.
Trial and Testimony. During his trial, Cooper admitted to being near the crime scene but denied the murders.
Eyewitness Accounts. Eyewitnesses reported seeing three white men, contradicting Cooper's involvement.
The Sheath Evidence. A sheath linked to the murder weapon was found in the hideout house, raising questions.
Eyewitness Confusion. The sole survivor, Joshua, initially reported seeing three white men. His statements later changed, raising questions about the reliability of eyewitness accounts.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Is Kevin Cooper the enemy?

Questioning Cooper's guilt

3:58WatchNov 25, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.