The Ice Box Murders /// Part 2 /// 444 | Forensic Files

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around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] in June of
1965 Houston police officers forced their way into the home of Fred and edua Rogers finding the elderly couple
murdered and their bodies dismembered in the refrigerator or ice box their 43-year-old son Charles who lived in the
home with the deceased couple was nowhere to be found based on the autopsy the crime scene and the evidence
investigators believe that Fred was killed by blows the head with a claw hammer Ed WEA had been beaten and shot
execution style investigators believe that Charles their son killed his parents dismembered them and cleaned up
most of the blood the house was staged to have the appearance of a robbery a search for Charles Rogers was launched
and a warrant was issued for him as a material witness to the crime this is a tactic that we've seen before in other
murder investigations Captain where they are not saying this man is a suspect they are not publicly saying this man
murdered his parents what they are saying is we are searching for this man the best we could do is get a material
witness search warrant for this man right and we can't find him anywhere locally very quickly within 24 to 48
hours of the discovery of the parents having been murdered there's a nationwide manhunt for 43-year-old
Charles Rogers the difficult thing here is Charles lived at the home possibly owned the home so fingerprints that's
not going to matter Footprints not going to matter but what does matter is we have two to dead parents and the house
is filled with bleach mhm and I think that's the thing when when you talk about the fact that there might be some
like gambling or local mob or even National mob why would the mob clean up the house there's no point
to it or spend the time to dismember the bodies it's really if this dismembering
of the bodies could be to prove a point that's true let's show you how vicious we are and so when you come home and
again well maybe that's the reason why there would been any cleanup maybe the whole idea is you're going to come home
you're not going to really notice much difference in the house and then when you open up the refrigerator you're
going to find your parents chopped up and that's to send a message um I guess then the bleach would make sense but
doesn't make a lot of sense to me right I guess the the thought being here if it
was a robbery if it was a hit if it was a job that you go in you commit the murders and you leave you don't hang out
there for hours possibly days altering the crime scene and dismembering the bodies this case reminds me of an FBI
top 10 most wanted case that we covered in August of 2017 this is the Bradford Bishop case he
was aged 39 he disappeared March 2nd back in 1976 from Bethesda Maryland shortly after allegedly
murdering his wife mother and children similar situation where everybody else that lived in the house was killed the
bodies were later moved and he attempted to burn them and fled the area the car the family car was found on an isolated
Campground in Tennessee similar situation to that that the only person left the last man standing if you
will is labeled the suspect because that is the closest point we can get from perpetrator to
victims and he Bishop has been on the FBI's most wanted list since 2014 I believe so they're still looking
for him Charles Rogers is never made it onto any of these list I was looking for
uh state of Texas most wanted fugitives the Harris County Houston city FBI top 10 he's never made it onto any
of these lists now mind you a lot of these lists that exist today did not exist in
1965 when he allegedly killed his parents and fled the area the interesting thing though was they
believed or at least worked on several persons that they believed to have been Fred Rogers excuse me Charles Rogers now
part of that is it's a pretty common name so when they go oh there's a Charles Rogers in Oklahoma well we got
to go investigate him right it's just a common name there were several people they went to several different cities in
Texas they went to Oklahoma I could find one case as far away as Michigan and this one looked like a really good lead
in Michigan because the Charles Rogers in Michigan had a pilot's license had his
own plane they were very quickly able to figure out that the pilot's license did
not match up with that of the one Charles Rogers that they in fact were looking for there's even this weird
story too where locally on the local level they locked up a guy and the guy said he
was Charles Rogers and two people came forward and identified him as the Charles Rogers they were looking for
they held him in jail for several days only to find out that the man was suffering from mental illness he was not
who he said he was and the two people that identified him they simply were mistaken it was somebody else entirely
what became of this though is Charles Rogers became somewhat of a gat and he really became like the local
Boogeyman for the kids of that neighborhood and for the kids of Houston it was said that for several
weeks after the discovery of the bodies the police were guarding the house this is for several reasons one they thought
that there was a decent chance that Charles Rogers might return to the home at some point got to catch
him the other thing was they were worried worried that vandals would come and vandalize the
home they couldn't do anything this would be the banks and the police they couldn't do anything with the home
because the owners regardless of how you shake this thing out we talked about how Charles
owned half the house or maybe he owned the entire house the rightful owner of the home be it his parents and him or
Charles by himself they could not locate them so they couldn't just confiscate the home take over the home and take all
the belongings out of there so they watched the house for several weeks they didn't have any instance
where Charles Rogers returned to the house they were not able to find him then what happens in this bizarre story
is they would go and periodically check on the house from time to time after several years had gone by now mind you
the house by this point has been abandoned for a long time the yard probably looks crazy the the house
probably looks scary and now you have these stories that are being told throughout the neighborhood of that's
the house where Charles Rogers killed his parents the police Cod to check on the
house they find a window in the side door were left open someone had entered the home and in the living room on the
wall someone wrote I killed my parents I am the Killer and whoever did this they
believe rifled through the drawers and and looked for any potential valuables before leaving the home right this story
gets out and this scares the hell out of the neighborhood kids who are now being
told by some of the older kids things like you know somebody saw Charles Rogers peeking in their window last week
somebody saw Charles Rogers in the neighborhood there were even uh stories where the older kids would tell the
younger kids don't be out late at night by yourself or Charles Rogers will get you cut you up into pieces and flush you
down the toilet so yeah he became the local Boogeyman and in 1975 a Houston judge declared Charles
Rogers legally dead this is so the estate could be probated this is even though the case
still remained officially unsolved and open with Charles Rogers being the only suspect the house then is allowed to be
sold it sat there and sat there until they eventually demolished the home with the furniture still
inside I saw an article captain that said that the the Lots sat there vacant until 2000 until the year 2000 when
Condominiums were built in that lot and probably the surrounding area as well it's a very attractive building that
they built but the the neighbors were saying that whether it would be on Halloween or
the anniversary of the murders there would be people that would be there that would take pictures or light candles or
just people that are fascinated by the cas locally yeah in 2012 culture map Houston writer Sarah Rua wrote a
Chilling Tales article titled Houston's crime rate is low but its history is dark the city's five most notorious
murders the good news as the article starts out the year 2011 the city of Houston had fewer homicides than any
year since 1965 that is quite the accomplishment for a city as large as Houston oddly enough that is the fewest
amount of homicides since the year of the still unsolved double Frederick and edua Rogers homicides the list like most
places refer to this case as the ice boox murders which Sarah placed at the number four spot on their Houston's five
most notorious murders list the list also included the 2001 case of Andrea Yates who drowned her five children in
the bathtub of their home she was later found not guilty by reason of insanity due to postpartum depression and
psychosis the other cases listed are the Sunday morning slasher case The Killing
Fields case which we which for all of the good people out there listening on Stitcher we covered
this in our Killing Fields Trilogy in August of 2017 and finally the serial killer Dean
Coral the case which we covered as well in our Candyman episodes in October of 2018 so certainly this case remains on
the minds of people at the local level and as you said Captain very much now folklore and local legend in the Houston
area well like we both said chances are he's the most likely suspect but what would his motives be well there are two
prevailing theories as far as motive for murder here because if we trace this thing it appears that he lived with his
parents for a good deal of time and then it something happened that made him murder his parents and some have
suggested that it was always building up to this that the hatred that he had for
his father that the disagreements that he had with his mother him being weird them being weird his father potentially
being abusive both physically and verbally to his son some have even suggested that this carried on into
Charles's adult life and may have still been going on roughly about the time of the murders that it was this abuse that
led to him losing it reacting and killing both of his parents but the icing on the cake being that they were
cheating him financially as well and at some point he discovered this and chose to seek revenge against his parents and
kill them both there is evidence to suggest that a couple of things were going on here one that they were
stealing money from their son the way that these reports go Captain I want to be clear here some
state that both parents were knowing and willingly doing this other reports state
that the father was the one doing this yeah but they were stealing money from their son and remember we mentioned that
there's evidence that says he owned a good deal of property elsewhere what has come to light is that he found evidence
that his parents forged the documents to make it appear as they were the owners of that property and what
they were doing was they were borrowing against that property basically they stole the land from him right and took
out a loan against that land the value of the land they're collecting money based off of this and then we already
talked about the weird stuff with the house did it belong to them did it belong to Charles did they was this a
situation where he actually paid for the entirety of the house and they forged documents to make it look like they
owned half of it but again you're saying this is all speculation we don't have any actual proof of this there is some
proof I don't have any that I can cite right here for you today but I I do believe that there's a good amount of
proof for this because we have a book that came out and this would have been in 2003 in October of 2003 Red Bud
publishing released the ice boox murders this is a novel written by Hugh and Martha Garder I'm hoping I'm saying
their name correctly according to a review in the Houston Press the ice boox murders is written as fact-based fiction
and supposition interesting that it's listed as this it's not listed as true crime
it's listed as fact-based fiction an interview with the authors Hugh states that 85% of the book is fact the other
15% is fiction they weren't able to get the True Crime category for their book based off
of that the case is still technically unsolved they believe that they've solved it one thing that I find
fascinating regarding the financials the financial element to the motive for murder here is that the married couple
that wrote the book The box murders they are both forensic accountants people that are able to take
documents review documents and then find out the reasons why and Trace everything
back to how numbers got to be numbers and how statements got to be statements and if in fact they are true or false
well this guy's missing and he's never been found how does and individual like this do
that the book itself in their Theory Captain is not without a certain level of conspiracy and that I think is why the
authors are saying Hey look it's 85% fact 15% fiction or left to the unknown because in the book there are many
unnamed characters and these are supposed to be various politicians real life politicians and attorneys as well
as possible eyewitnesses who may have saw Rogers in other countries after these murders or maybe even helped him or
employed him after he fled the Houston area and essentially fled the United States because of the discovery of his
killed parents one thing that the authors cite and this is something that was hold back
information in the ice boox murders case M it came out 3 years after the murders
so the murders were committed in 1965 well in 1968 there was a Houston Chronicle article where law enforcement
was asking the public for their help well you know for 3 years in the small area there was probably tons of rumors
coming out what they wanted was they wanted to identify a man who was using the name Anthony pittz or to have the
public come forward and point out and say hey I I know somebody using that name or I know Anthony pittz here is
where he is here is his location so they could go speak with him why would they want to talk to somebody named Anthony
pittz well they believe that this was an alias that Rogers was using to flee the
area the way that The Story Goes is within a day or two of the murders remember they
were able to really narrow that down to just a few hours either late Saturday or
early Sunday morning the couple was killed inside their home so this would have been Monday or
Tuesday of that same week a man went into an office building applying for a job a welder job
overseas now there's no no evidence to suggest that Charles Rogers was a welder ever was a welder at any point in his
life however the man matched Charles Rogers description and the key being here that the job was overseas if
Charles Rogers is as smart and Brilliant as they say he is I'm sure he thought he
could figure out how to fake his way at least to the point to getting out of the
country he applied for this out ofthe country welder job using the name Anthony pittz right what the
ice boox murders book authors the husband and wife Hugh and Martha put together they don't think that Charles
Rogers was as much of a recluse as what the papers would have us believe they think that he was out living a pretty
full life when he was away from his parents and away from the home so much so that he had a
girlfriend the way that the story all ties in is that they believe that Charles's girlfriend and they simply
give the first name only as Jean worked at that office building and he was going
there not so much so to try to get this job out of the country it was more of a way for him to get a vehicle
remember we said that both of the vehicles that belong to the Rogers family were inoperable the reports were
that they were up on blocks in the driveway of the home he needed a getaway car and his girlfriend Jean was going to
provide this to him he just had to go to the office and pick it up she didn't want to be tied to the murder house so
according to the authors Jean provided Charles Rogers with a 1959 Cadillac which he used to help him get to the
Mexico border or get to his Cessna airplane right that we referenced earlier to to get his ass out of the
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free all right we're back cheers mates cheers to you cap couple more twists and turns
to possibly think about in this case well Alice are you ready to go dive down the Giant Rabbit Hole yeah I got my
little dress on and I took my little crumpets you know this one you know this will make you drink this and makes you
smaller I like the one that makes me taller mhm so I'm going to drink my drink and let's Swan Dive down the old r
rabbit hole because there is another theory that takes much of the same aspects of that theory that we just
reviewed but it takes it a whole step further and what is that well that Charles
Rogers was somehow involved in the assassination of our 35th President of the United States John F
Kennedy yeah makes some sense just on the surface having said that this double homicide goes down in 1965 in Houston
Texas and Kennedy is shot and killed in Dallas in November of 1963 but the way that this general
theory works is that Rogers discovered that his parents were stealing money from him and frauding him out of his
property to which he says look I know what you guys are doing I don't know what threats they believe
were made if he threatened to kick them out of the house or have them arrested thrown behind bars or what but in
reaction to that argument about the financials the theory goes that edua said you know what you've been yeah
we've been stealing your money but you don't think that your father and I know what you've been up to for these last
few years yeah that you and your goony friends got together and plotted against the president and killed the president
and by the way we're going to keep stealing your money and keep abusing you and doing whatever we want as a form of
blackmail because we know that you were involved in the assassination of JFK yeah supposedly she was logging his
calls um again you'd think that law enforcement would be able to come out and say one tell me if he was even
living in that house but was he receiving a bunch of calls and where where they're coming
from yeah so this Theory I'm not going to I'm not going to try to sugarcoat it one bit there are plenty of holes in
this Theory just as there would be with any of the conspiracy theories for kind of Swiss cheese for the JFK
assassination so I don't want anybody out there going well the Nick the old Nick
he's gotten extra crispy in his recent days the old crispy Colonel and now theis is now falling off that's right
they they think they've solved JFK's murder well no that's not it but this is a very interesting story and one that
I'm been very pleased to have spent some time looking into recently the way that
this works is there were three men that were photographed by several Dallas area
newspapers yeah yeah they were under police escort near the Texas School Book Depository shortly after the
assassination of United States President John F Kennedy on November 22nd 1963 they're referred to as the three tramps
the three tramps the three transients were all men as the captain just said later commonly referred to as the three
tramps right according to Vincent buosi allegations that these men were involved in a conspiracy against the
president originated from theorist Richard sprag who compiled the photographs in 1966 and
1967 and then gave them to Jim Garrison Jim Garrison was the attorney that was going after and leading the
investigation of Clay Shaw who he believed was involved in the conspiracy murder of John Kennedy now appearing
before a nationwide audience on January 31st 1968 on The Tonight Show Jim Garrison a
guest on The Tonight Show he held up a photo of the three tramps right and suggested that they were involved in the
assassination well and one of the reasons people believe this is because we we do have proof that these three
guys were arrested they all gave three fake names and they were they all were released correct and ever since then
ever since Garrison his appearance on the tonight's show there have been various upon various allegations of
who or the identities of the three men that were arrested that day and called and labeled the three tramps now Rogers
is father Fred Rogers had kind of a sunken in chin and so you can compare one of the three Tramps and go okay well
that guy has a sunken in chin he has a straight pointy nose that would be consistent with Charles but there's so
few pictures of Charles that it's really hard to look at any pictures of the tramps there's so few pictures of the
tramps to look at either one of those and say that that's Charles Roger I can't look at it um and and say that's
Charles Rogers to me well the thing that's difficult about Charles Rogers is there's not a whole lot of photos that
exist of this man and often the photos that we are seeing would be things like his senior picture in high school we
would also be looking at his days in the Navy when he was photographed in the Navy so I don't know that you have a lot
of great comparisons when trying to compare his picture to that of one of the three tramps what is interesting
though is that we have Lois Gibson she worked with the Houston Police Department she was a forensic
artist so she is the person that's going to make these composite sketches of suspects that we see at the post office
or released on fbi.gov and what have you Lois Gibson is the one that's said to have identified Charles Rogers as what
is known as the small [ __ ] [ __ ] number three [ __ ] number three he was the the
shortest of the three tramps according to Lois Gibson and he was a shorter man he was listed at 5 fo s or
5'8 and she says that he she believes he was the small [ __ ] she also identified
char Char Harrison to be that of the tall [ __ ] and chy Holt she identified him as being
well my list here says the third [ __ ] um yeah I mean well it depends on what pictures you look at and depends on
who's labeling them um oh I wonder if he's called the third [ __ ] in this version because they show a picture of
the three of them being led away from the area right and he's the last one he's the last one in the picture but the
but the first one in the picture is who people think maybe Charles would be so these three tramps they're located in
the general vicinity of where Kennedy's assassinated and what's interesting is these are the tramps that were over by
the the railroad and the grassy null area yeah and so a lot of people think they were dressed as something else and
then change close um they did get arrested they were let go but they gave fake names so how
how would you be let go when you give fake names I mean I know there's a lot going
on in that town but a lot of people believe that this is part of the conspiracy because some people higher up
people were able to get them out that maybe they worked for the CIA or they worked for the
FBI um but the only thing that really stands out to me when you're looking at those
pictures and I'll post those on Instagram as well is Charles has a it's almost like
his right ear is a little different than his left ear and it's more more of a circle and it kind of sticks out a
little bit more mhm and if you look at the pictures of [ __ ] number three definitely has the same type of
situation going on with his right ear as well it almost looks like like a deformity like almost like a wrestler
would have but um yeah that's the only thing that kind of sticks out to me to go oh may
maybe maybe that could be him but then when you look at possible other pictures of um Charles when he gets a
little older what maybe they think he he would have looked like or what it it doesn't look anywhere close
to him what's interesting here is there is a little proof in the pudding there is some reason to speculate that this is
a possibility and I think we should continue down that rabbit hole so we have John R Craig and Philip a Rogers no
relation to Charles Rogers in the early 90s they released a book called the man on the grassy null did the CIA hire a
psychopath to assassinate JFK now the psychopath is Charles Rogers but also could be Charles
Harrison right now who is Charles harelson Charles harelson is Woody Harrelson's
father yeah this is a weird story but this sounds like we're making this up right and and and and then that
was the father of who well cheers I almost feel bad telling this story because Woody harelson is one of my
favorite actors he's amazing I feel like I'm like I'm just doing it to service to
a man that I I enjoy his work very much in September of 1982 Contract Killer Charles harelson this is one
thing that you got to factor in here nobody's really arguing that two of these three men that they're saying
could be the three tramps have already murdered other people or went on to murder other people
so they're known killers that they're filling the shoes of these three Tramps in September of 1982 Charles harelson
while wanted for the murder of federal judge John Wood Jr quote unquote confessed to killing the judge and
President Kennedy during a six-hour standoff with police which later it was determined that harelson was high on
cocaine we have several witnesses that that witnessed this man state that not only did I kill the judge but I killed
President Kennedy as well these Witnesses later testified that they didn't really
believe harelson but these are words that Charles harelson said a known killer yeah and the way that the book
puts this Theory together the man on the grassy null is that you had harelson a contract killer someone that you could
hire to go off and kill someone and Charles R rers someone who we know spent time in the Navy served in World War II
that these two men were going to be additional shooters that they would be the ones
shooting of the Two Tramps in this Chanty halt would be a lookout right and the way that this Theory works is that
they were involved with the CIA they were CIA operatives and they were also work with
Oswald and what's interesting one thing that I found fascinating in the book itself is they show a
picture anybody that's seen the movie JFK by Oliver Stone will know exactly what I'm talking about there they spent
a good portion of that movie and I understand that it's a movie but they spent a good portion of that movie in
New Orleans where they show Lee Harvey Oswald passing out leaflets for the Cuba movement or whatever ever they were
calling it right well they show a picture in this book of Lee Harvey Oswald passing out said leaflets the
fair play for Cuba leaflets in New Orleans this on August 16th 1963 this is not just some random
photograph this is a photograph from wdsv TV New Orleans in the picture you can see reporters you can see several
other persons all dress like Oswald this is dark pants white button-up shirt with
a tie passing out these leaflets in this picture here Chanty Holt who is later said to be one of the three tramps
identifies a man who is on the far right of this picture as as being Charles Rogers who he says he didn't know as
Charles Rogers he knew him under the name of Richard Montoya and he says that it he was an
agent that he worked with with Oswald he was a CIA agent is what you're saying according to this Chanty halt
right and there's also evidence or belief that Oswald had a office in um in like the CIA or the
FBI they had a building that Oswald had a office with inside so there's other people that have
made those claims that Oswald has work for our government in many different capacities right and again this theory
has quite a bit of holes to it and really the interlocking Theory here is that in some form or fashion all four
including Oswald chony Hol Charles R rers and Charles harelson were all working contracted or employed by the
CIA during this assassination of JFK right well think about the difference that would have made after Oswald was
shot and killed if they would have said oh by the way he was working for the government wait so the guy that you
arrested that you believe killed the president was working for the government that seems a little
fishy well I'm not going to lie the pictures that I've seen and been able to compare uh to the ones where chony Holt
are saying look in this picture taken in August of 63 in New Orleans it does appear to me
that Lee Harvey Oswald's in the picture as well as a man that Lois Gibson later ident identified as Charles Rogers and
that chony Holt later identified as Charles Rogers one thing that's important here too that that's
interesting is that in the mid1 1950s Charles Rogers joined the Civil Air Patrol where he reportedly met David
Ferry who is believed to be a possible alleged conspirator in the assassination of President Kennedy as well isn't he
the only man that has actually been brought to trial no that was Clay Shaw that was
that was brought to trial by Garrison but again somebody that people made a bunch of claims against saying that he
knew who osal was he denied it and then later they found pictures and then found
out that they were in the same uh Civil Air Patrol so it's as much as there's holes
there's a lot that are connecting the dots at least before we move on I do want to
mention Charles harelson was three times tried for murder this is three separate
murders this would be the murder of Allan Berg Sam deelia and the murder of Judge John
hwood Jr that is the one that during the standoff for his arrest he admitted to killing the judge and Kennedy
this is how you tie him to being one of the three Tramps and he does look like one of them he went on to be convicted
of two homicides and later I know that he attempted to escape prison on at least one
occasion now the problem here though Captain is where this story falls apart of the
these three men two of them one a known killer the other Charles Rogers believed
very much to be a killer mhm where this falls apart is it looks like shortly after the release of the book The Man
from the grassy null the three tramps were identified and none of them were what Lois Gibson said uh Charles Rogers
Charles harelson or chony Hol yeah but I think I think the three tramps have been
identified a million times now I don't know if they've been correctly identified correct right they it's been
again various allegations of who the three tramps were throughout the history ever since Garrison held up that photo
on The Tonight Show this has been going on since the late 60s I mean some people
say these guys were arrested whoever they put their names down as that's who they were and they
maybe had ID or had somebody check it out or whatever and then there's other people that have said these guys were
arrested and they used fake names so I mean I I have never heard um any solid confirmation other than look at this
picture and compare it with this other picture well this is another confusing explanation but the explanation goes is
this that the three tramps were identified died in 1992 as Gus Abrams Harold Doyle and John
gney this is from journalist Mary leontin who discovered the November 22nd 1963 arrest records that the Dallas
Police Department had released in 1989 which named the three men as Gus W Abrams Harold Doyle and John F gidney
according to the arrest report reports the three men were taken off a box car in the railroad yards right after
President Kennedy was shot detained and investigated as prisoners described as unemployed and passing through the
Dallas area then released four days later an immediate search for the three men by the FBI and others prompted by an
article by Ry and Mary leontine on the front page of the February 9th 19 1992 Houston Post less than one month later
the FBI reported that Abrams was dead and that interviews with gidney and Doyle revealed no new information about
the assassination right it being the FBI's claimed that they tracked down all three of these men and none of them used
a fake name when they were arrested and this report stating that the three Tramps in air quotes were held for about
four days interviewed by a current affair remember that old TV show in 1992 Doyle came forward said that he was
aware of the allegations and did not come forward for fear of being implicated in the assassination he added
quote I am a plain guy a simple country boy that's the way I want to stay I wouldn't be a celebrity for 10
million gidney independently affirmed Doyle's account and a researcher who Tracked Down
Abram's sister confirmed that Abrams lived the life of a train Hopper and died in
1987 that all seems pretty firm to me having two of the individuals coming forward and then the sister of the
deceased third [ __ ] stating yes everything seems on the up and up with these claims where it gets wonky is that
we have people that that push the idea and there's probably some proof to back this up I'm
guessing I've not seen it I don't know but uh they're saying look Dallas Police have claimed to have lost the records of
these arrests as well as the mug shots and the fingerprints so what are we to believe about the identity of these
quote unquote three tramps yeah because if you gave me enough time I probably could actually pull up three maybe six
different names that I've read in the past that don't match those names that that you're just given in that report
but but that's the problem with this case or the problem with the the JFK assassination case what's really
interesting is the ice box murders which is a very different book from that of the man on the grassy null I do want to
point out here with the man on the grassy null the authors I'm sure they worked their butts
off putting together this book it's a incredibly interesting book I it was a fascinating read now a question for you
however I don't want to jump way off subject I just want to point this out the picture on the cover of the man with
grassy null that's supposed to be Charles Rogers yes right I I'm just going to throw this out there
because I was watching a um that new show it's like it's not Unsolved Mysteries but it's called something like
that with uh Lawrence Fishburn okay and they were going over the DB Cooper case mhm and it wouldn't be that far off of a
a match for Charles Roger I mean I think they have DB Cooper being a little bit taller but but not a lot
taller um but I could see that photo matching a little bit of the the composite sketch yeah I guess I mean Charles
Rogers looks like your pretty average Joe um there's nothing remarkable to me about his General
appearance so that that makes it difficult you could lump him in a whole bunch of different
ways the the problem with the theory put forth and the man on the grassy null is it really just seems to be a theory
based off of Lois Gibson saying look these three men's pictures match the pictures that I've seen and I have of
the three Tramps and then they are compounding that with this quote unquote cocaine confession of Charles harelson
while he's in the middle of a standoff and shootout with police right so it's very very very Loosey
Goosey now what isn't Loosey Goosey is the book The Ice Box murders both of those authors
say we believe Charles Rogers murdered his parents took this Cadillac got out of Dodge hopped in his Cessna and went
down to South America where he lived and worked for several years and that no one
he was being aided and embedded by people that still lived in the United States in the state of Texas they didn't
come forward to turn Charles Rogers in because he was making a good amount of money for them in their mining
operations down in South America right it's helping them find gold and oil very valuable things and what happened to
Charles Rogers according to the ice boox murders book they did say the thing that's interesting is look we couldn't
find anything to connect him directly to the assassination of John F Kennedy however we found things that do connect
him to the CIA they don't say he ever worked for them or was contracted by the CIA but they said it is certainly
possible they left that window open what they believe happened to Charles Rogers is that was a wage
dispute at one of these mining operations and the the miners attacked him and killed him with a pickaxe and
threw his body in a river and because of the nature of the attack the heat the river itself the body was not able to be
fully identified the best that they could come up with was a known associate of Charles Rogers was this man named
John Mackey who was running mining businesses in Honduras and Mexico the Honduras authorities went to John Macky
saying that an American geologist had been killed by a group of miners with a pickaxe they threw him in the river
could you identify this man he said I don't know who he is but again this book is not considered to be
factual it's considered to be partially factual 85% factual so their claim there
is that that Charles Rogers would have been working for and making money for John Mackey at the time that he was
killed by these miners yes which is very possible I'm sorry back to the whole point of the DB Cooper History's
Greatest Mysteries it's hosted by Lawrence Fishburn they took on the DB Cooper case what's interesting about
what they found cuz normally when they take on these greatest Mysteries they walk away
with whatever they started this uh is different they actually walked away with DNA that they're going to be able to
present to the FBI so now they believe they have DB Cooper's DNA on file and I'm saying just for the record that's a
very far stretch that Charles Rogers is you know connected at all with the Cooper or that he would be DB Cooper but
or connected with JFK or yeah or oswal or any of them but it's so fascinating that you have this horrific
murder and the number one suspect goes missing and we know that he worked for you know he was in the Navy so he has
other those connections but he has also these connections and oil where we know oil
a lot of money money equals power he would have a lot of resources to go like you said and possibly live his life
somewhere else which if he's responsible for these murders there's no way he should be
living around anybody it's an intriguing case it's still technically opened even
though Houston Police believe that Charles Rogers is absolutely responsible for the murder of his parents what of
Charles Rogers we don't know and he's never been found even to this day all these years later it's an intriguing
case an intriguing conversation with intriguing [Music] [Music] possibilities thanks for joining us here
in the garage for more True Crime garage. download the Stitcher app and check out our bonus show called off the
Record Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week it is with absolute great joy and excitement that
we recommend the killer Shadow the FBI's hunt for a white supremist serial killer
by legendary FBI profiler John Douglas the killer Shadow is available as of November 17th in all of the best forms
hard cover paperback audiobook on Audible and kall and you don't have to write that title down right now as we
have that great title and many others on our recommended page atrm garage.com and
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The Ice Box Murders /// Part 2 /// 444

Part 2 of 2

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June 1965 - Houston, Texas. Over the course of Father’s Day weekend someone murdered Fred and Edwina Rogers in their home. The killer dismembered the victims and stuffed them in the refrigerator. Who killed the elderly couple? What was the motive or motives for the murders? Join us in the Garage as we go back in time and review this cold case.

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the 1965 ice box murders in Houston and the mysterious disappearance of Charles Rogers, the prime suspect.

Key points

The Ice Box Murders. In 1965, Houston police discovered the dismembered bodies of Fred and Edwina Rogers, leading to a nationwide manhunt for their son, Charles.
Charles Rogers: The Local Legend. After the murders, Charles Rogers became a local legend, feared by neighborhood kids as the Boogeyman.
The Three Tramps Theory. Exploring the conspiracy theory linking Charles Rogers to JFK's assassination.
The Man on the Grassy Knoll. A book suggests a CIA connection to JFK's assassination.
The Ice Box Murders. The authors believe Charles Rogers murdered his parents and fled to South America.
DB Cooper's DNA. New evidence suggests they may have DB Cooper's DNA on file.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

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0:18WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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