The Ice Box Murders /// Part 2 /// 444 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that insists that Willie Nelson file his taxes for
him ladies and gentlemen the independently wealthy Captain yeah I had a bunch of money till the government
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some beer pints and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
talk some true crime [Music] [Music] in June of 1965 Houston police officers forced their way into the home of Fred
and Edwina Rogers finding the elderly couple murdered in their bodies dismembered in the refrigerator or
icebox their 43 year old son Charles who lived in the home with the deceased couple was nowhere to be found based on
the autopsy the crime scene and the evidence investigators believe that Fred was killed by blows to the head with a
claw hammer and Weena had been beaten and shot execution style investigators believe that Charles their son killed
his parents dismembered them and cleaned up most of the blood the house was staged to have the appearance of a
robbery a search for Charles Rogers was launched and a warrant was issued for him as a material witness to the crime
this is a tactic that we've seen before in other murder investigations Captain where they are not saying this man is a
suspect they are not publicly saying this man murdered his parents what they are saying is we are searching for this
man the best we could do is get a material witness search warrant for this man right and we can't find him anywhere
locally very quickly within 24 to 48 hours of the discovery of the parents having been murdered
there's a nationwide man hunt for 43 year old Charles Rogers the difficult thing here is Charles lived at the home
possibly owned the home so fingerprints that's not going to matter Footprints not gonna matter
but what does matter is we have two dead parents and the house is filled with bleach
and I think that's the thing when when you talk about the fact that there might be some like
gambling or local mob or even National mob why would the mob clean up the house there's no point to it
or spend the time to dismember the bodies it's really if this was this membrane of the bodies could be to prove
a point that's true let's show you how vicious we are and so when you come home and again well maybe that's the reason
why there would have been any cleanup maybe the whole idea is you're going to come home you're not going to really
notice much difference in the house and then when you open up the refrigerator you're going to find your parents
chopped up and that's to send a message um I guess then the bleach would make sense
but doesn't make a lot of sense to me right I guess the the thought being here if it
was a robbery if it was a hit if it was a job that you go in you commit the murders and you leave you don't hang out
there for hours possibly days altering the crime scene and dismembering the bodies this case
reminds me of an FBI top 10 most wanted case that we covered in August of 2017 this is the Bradford Bishop case he was
age 39 he disappeared March 2nd back in 1976 from Bethesda Maryland shortly after allegedly murdering his wife
mother and children similar situation where everybody else that lived in the house was killed the bodies were later
moved and he attempted to burn them and fled the area the car the family car was found on an
isolated Campground in Tennessee similar situation to that that the only person left the last man standing if you
will is labeled the suspect because that is the closest point we can get from perpetrator to victims
and he Bishop has been on the FBI's most wanted list since 2014 I believe so they're still looking
for him Charles Rogers has never made it onto any of these lists I was looking for a state of Texas most wanted
fugitives the Harris County Houston City FBI top 10. he's never made it on to any
of these lists now mind you a lot of these lists that exist today did not exist in 1965 when he allegedly killed
his parents and fled the area the interesting thing though was they believed or at least worked on several
persons that they believed to have been Fred Rogers excuse me Charles Rogers now
part of that is it's a pretty common name so when they go oh there's a Charles Rogers in Oklahoma well we got to go
investigate him right well it's just a common name there were several people they went to several different cities in
Texas they went to Oklahoma I could find one case as far away as Michigan and this one looked like a really good lead
in Michigan because the Charles Rogers in Michigan had a pilot's license had his own plane
they were very quickly able to figure out that the pilot's license did not match up with that of the one Charles
Rogers that they in fact were looking for there's even this weird story too where locally on the local level
they locked up a guy and the guy said he was Charles Rogers and two people came forward and
identified him as the Charles Rogers they were looking for they held him in jail for several days only to find out
that the man was suffering from mental illness he was not who he said he was and the two people
that identified him they simply were mistaken it was somebody else entirely what became of this though is Charles
Rogers became somewhat of a ghost and he really became like the local Boogeyman for the kids of that
neighborhood and for the kids of Houston it was said that for several weeks after
the discovery of the bodies the police were guarding the house this is for several reasons one they thought that
there was a decent chance that Charles Rogers might return to the home at some point
gotta catch him the other thing was they were worried that vandals would come and vandalize
the home they couldn't do anything this would be the banks and the police they couldn't
do anything with the home because the owners regardless of how you shake this thing
out we talked about how Charles owned half the house or maybe he owned the entire house
the rightful owner of the home be it his parents and him or Charles by himself they could not locate them so they
couldn't just confiscate the home take over the home and take all the belongings out of there
so they watched the house for several weeks they didn't have any incidents where
Charles Rogers returned to the house they were not able to find him then what happens in this bizarre story is
they would go and periodically check on the house from time to time after several years had gone by now mind
you the house by this point has been abandoned for a long time the yard probably looks crazy the the house
probably looks scary and now you have these stories that are being told throughout the neighborhood of that's
the house where Charles Rogers killed his parents the police code to check on the house
they find a window in the side door were left open someone had entered the home and in the living room on the wall
someone wrote I killed my parents I am the Killer and whoever did this they believe rifle through the drawers and
and looked for any potential valuables before leaving the home right this story gets out and this scares the hell out of
the neighborhood kids who are now being told by some of the older kids things like you know somebody saw Charles
Rogers peeking in their window last week somebody saw Charles Rogers in the neighborhood there were even stories
where the older kids would tell the younger kids don't be out late at night by yourself or Charles Rogers will get
you cut you up into pieces and flush you down the toilet so yeah he became the local Boogeyman
and in 1975 a Houston judge declared Charles Rogers legally dead this is so the estate could
be probated this is even though the case still remained officially unsolved and open
with Charles Rogers being the only suspect the house then is allowed to be sold it sat there and sat there until
they eventually demolished the home with the furniture still inside I saw an article captain that said that
the the lot sat there vacant until 2000 until the year 2000 when Condominiums were built in that lot and probably the
surrounding area as well it's a very attractive building that they built but the neighbors were saying that
whether it would be on Halloween or the anniversary of the murders there would be people that would be there that would
take pictures or light candles or just people that are fascinated by the case locally yeah in 2012 culture map Houston
writer Sarah ruffka wrote a Chilling Tales article titled Houston's crime rate is low but its history is dark the
city's five most notorious murders the good news as the article starts out the year 2011 the city of Houston had fewer
homicides than any year since 1965. that is quite the accomplishment for a city as large as Houston oddly enough that is
the fewest amount of homicides since the year of the still unsolved double Frederick and Edwina Rogers homicides
the list like most places refer to this case as the icebox murders which Sarah placed at the number four spot on their
Houston's five most notorious murders list the list also included the 2001 case of Andrea Yates who drowned her
five children in the bathtub of their home she was later found not guilty by reason of insanity due to postpartum
depression and psychosis the other cases listed are the Sunday morning slasher case The Killing Fields case which we
which for all of the good people out there listening on Stitcher we covered this in our Killing Fields Trilogy in
August of 2017 and finally the serial killer Dean Coral the case which we covered as well in our
Candyman episodes in October of 2018. so certainly this case remains on the minds of people at the local level
and as you said Captain very much now folklore and local legend in the Houston area well like we both said chances are
he's the most likely suspect but what would his motives be well there are two prevailing theories as far as motive for
murder here because if we trace this thing it appears that he lived with his parents for a good deal
of time and then something happened that made him murder his parents and some have suggested that it was always
building up to this that the hatred that he had for his father that the disagreements that he had with his
mother him being weird them being weird his father potentially being abusive both physically and verbally to his son
some have even suggested that this carried on into Charles's adult life and may have still been going on roughly
about the time of the murders that it was this abuse that led to him losing it reacting and killing both of his parents
but the icing on the cake being that they were cheating him financially as well and at some point he discovered
this and chose to seek revenge against his parents and kill them both there is evidence to suggest
that a couple of things were going on here one that they were stealing money from
their son the way that these reports go Captain I want to be clear here some state that both parents were
knowing and willingly doing this other reports state that the father was the one doing this yeah
but they were stealing money from their son and remember we mentioned that there's evidence that says he owned a
good deal of property elsewhere what has come to light is that he found evidence
that his parents forged the documents to make it appear as they were the owners of that property and what they
were doing was they were borrowing against that property basically they stole the land from him right and took
out a loan against that land the value of the land they're collecting money based off of this and then we already
talked about the weird stuff with the house did it belong to them did it belong to Charles did they
was this a situation where he actually paid for the entirety of the house and they forged documents to make it look
like they owned half of it but again you're saying this is all speculation we don't have any
actual proof of this there is some proof I don't have any that I can cite right here for you today but I I do believe
that there's a good amount of proof for this because we have a book that came out and this would have been in 2000 and
three in October of 2003 Redbud publishing released the icebox murders this is a novel written by Hugh and
Martha Gardiner I'm hoping I'm saying their name correctly according to a review in the Houston Press the icebox
murders is written as fact-based fiction and supposition interesting that it's listed as this
it's not listed as true crime it's listed as fact-based fiction an interview with the authors Hugh states
that 85 percent of the book is fact the other 15 percent is fiction they weren't
able to get the True Crime category for their book based off of that the case is still technically
unsolved they believe that they've solved it one thing that I find fascinating regarding the financials the
financial element to the motive for murder here is that the married couple that wrote the book the icebox murders
they are both forensic accountants people that are able to take documents review documents and then find out the
reasons why and Trace everything back to how numbers got to be numbers and how statements got to be statements and if
in fact they are true or false well this guy's missing and he's never been found how does an
individual like this do that the book itself and their Theory Captain is not without a certain level of
conspiracy and that I think is why the authors are saying Hey look it's 85 percent fact 15
fiction or left to the unknown because in the book there are many unnamed characters and these are supposed to be
various politicians real life politicians and attorneys as well as possible eyewitnesses who may have saw
Rogers in other countries after these murders or maybe even helped him or employed him
after he fled the Houston area and essentially fled the United States because of the discovery of his killed
parents one thing that the authors cite and this is something that was hold back
information in the icebox murders case it came out three years after the murders so the murders were committed in
1965 well in 1968 there was a Houston Chronicle article where law enforcement was asking the public for their help
well you know for three years in the small area there was probably tons of rumors coming out
what they wanted was they wanted to identify a man who was using the name Anthony Pitts or to have the public come
forward and point out and say hey I know somebody using that name or I know Anthony Pitts here is where he is here
is his location so they could go speak with him why would they want to talk to somebody named Anthony Pitts well
they believe that this was an alias that Rogers was using to flee the area the way that The Story Goes is within a
day or two of the murders remember they were able to really narrow that down to just a few hours either late Saturday or
early Sunday morning the couple was killed inside their home so this would have been Monday or
Tuesday of that same week a man went into an office building applying for a job a welder job overseas now there's no
evidence to suggest that Charles Rogers was a welder ever was a welder at any point in his life however the man
matched Charles Rogers description and the key being here that the job was overseas if Charles Rogers is as smart
and Brilliant as they say he is I'm sure he thought he could figure out how to fake his way at least to the point to
getting out of the country he applied for this out of the country welder job using the
name Anthony Pitts right what the icebox murders book authors the husband and wife Hugh and Martha put together
they don't think that Charles Rogers was as much of a recluse as what the papers
would have us believe they think that he was out living a pretty full life when he was away from
his parents and away from the home so much so that he had a girlfriend the way that the story all ties in is
that they believe that Charles's girlfriend and they simply give the first name only as Gene worked at that
office building and he was going there not so much so to try to get this job out of the country it was more of a
way for him to get a vehicle remember we said that both of the vehicles that belong to the Rogers family were
inoperable the reports were that they were up on blocks in the driveway of the home he needed a getaway car and his
girlfriend Jean was going to provide this to him he just had to go to the office and pick it up
she didn't want to be tied to the murder house so according to the authors Gene provided Charles Rogers with a 1959
Cadillac which he used to help him get to the Mexico border or get to his Cessna airplane right that we referenced
earlier to get his ass out of the country [Music] oh [Music] foreign [Music] we're back cheers mates
cheers to you cab couple more twists and turns to possibly think about in this case well Alice are you ready to go dive
down the giant rabbit hole yeah I got my little dress on and I took my little crumpets you know this one you know this
will make you drink this it makes you smaller I like the one that makes me taller so I'm going to drink my drink
and let's Swan Dive down the old rabbit hole because there is another theory that takes much of the same aspects of
that theory that we just reviewed but it takes it a whole step further and what is that well
that Charles Rogers was somehow involved in the assassination of our 35th President of
the United States John F Kennedy yeah makes some sense just on the surface having said that this double
homicide goes down in 1965 in Houston Texas and Kennedy is shot and killed in Dallas in November of
1963 but the way that this general theory works is that Rogers discovered that his parents were stealing money
from him and frauding him out of his property to which he says look I know what you
guys are doing I don't know what threats they believe were made if he threatened to kick them
out of the house or have them arrested thrown behind bars or what but in reaction to that argument about
the financials the theory goes that Edwina said you know what you've been yeah we've been stealing
your money but you don't think that your father and I know what you've been up to for these
last few years yeah that you and your goonie friends got together and plotted against the president and killed the
president and by the way we're going to keep stealing your money and keep abusing you and doing whatever we want
as a form of blackmail because we know that you were involved in the assassination of JFK yeah supposedly she
was logging his calls um again you'd think that law enforcement would be able to come
out and say one tell me if he's even living in that house but was he receiving a bunch of calls
and where where they're coming from yeah so this Theory I'm not gonna I'm not gonna try to sugarcoat it one bit
there are plenty of holes in this Theory just as there would be with any of the conspiracy theories what kind of Swiss
cheese for the JFK assassination so I don't want anybody out there going well the Nick the old Nick
he's got an extra crispy in his recent days the old crispy Colonel and now crisp is now falling off that's right
they they think they've solved JFK's murder well no that's not it but this is a very interesting story and one that
I'm been very pleased to have spent some time looking into recently the way that
this works is there were three men that were photographed by several Dallas area newspapers yeah there were under
police escort near the Texas School Book Depository shortly after the assassination of United States President
John F Kennedy on November 22nd 1963. they're referred to as the three tramps the three tramps the three transients
were all men as the captain just said later commonly referred to as the three tramps right according to Vincent
bagelosi allegations that these men were involved in a conspiracy against the president originated from theorist
Richard Sprague who compiled the photographs in 1966 and 1967 and then gave them to Jim Garrison
Jim Garrison was the attorney that was going after and leading the investigation of Clay Shaw who he
believed was involved in the conspiracy murder of John Kennedy now appearing before a nationwide audience on January
31st 1968 on The Tonight Show Jim Garrison a guest on The Tonight Show he held up a photo of the three tramps
right and suggested that they were involved in the assassination well and one of the reasons people believe this
is because we we do have proof that these three guys were arrested they all gave three
fake names and they were they all were released correct and ever since then ever since
Garrison his appearance on The Tonight Show there have been various upon various allegations of who
or the identities of the three men that were arrested that day and called and labeled the three tramps now Rogers his
father Fred Rogers had kind of a sunken in chin and so you can compare one of the three Tramps and
go okay well that guy has a sunken in chin he has a straight pointy nose that would be consistent with Charles
but there are so few pictures of Charles that it's really hard to look at any pictures of the tramps there's so few
pictures of the tramps to look at either one of those and say that that's Charles
Roger I can't look at it um and and say that's Charles Rogers to me well the thing that's difficult about
Charles Rogers is there's not a whole lot of photos that exist of this man and often the photos that we are seeing
would be things like his senior picture in high school we would also be looking at his days in
the Navy when he was photographed in the Navy so I don't know that you have a lot
of great comparisons when trying to compare his picture to that of one of the three tramps what is interesting
though is that we have Lois Gibson she worked with the Houston Police Department she was a forensic artist so
she is the person that's going to make these composite sketches of suspects that we see at the post office or
released on fbi.gov and what have you Lois Gibson is the one that said to have identified Charles Rogers as what is
known as the small [ __ ] [ __ ] number three [ __ ] number three he was the the
shortest of the three tramps according to Lois Gibson and he was a shorter man he was listed at five foot seven or five
foot eight and she says that he she believes he was the small [ __ ] she also identified Charles Harrison
to be that of the tall [ __ ] and Chauncey Holt she identified him as being well my list
here says the third [ __ ] um yeah I mean it's well it depends on what pictures you look at and depends on
who's labeling them um oh I wonder if he's called the third [ __ ] in this version because they show
a picture of the three of them being led away from the area right and he's the last one he's the last one in the
picture but the but the first one in the picture is who people think maybe Charles would be so these three tramps
they're located in the general vicinity of where Kennedy's assassinated and what's interesting is these are the
tramps that were over by the the railroad and the grassy knoll area yeah and so a lot of people think they were
dressed as something else and then change clothes they did get arrested they were let go
but they gave fake names so how how would you be let go when you give fake names
I mean I know there's a lot going on in that town but a lot of people believe that this is part of the conspiracy
because some people higher up people were able to get them out that maybe they worked for the CIA or they worked
for the FBI um but the only thing that really stands out to me when you're looking at those
pictures and I'll post those on Instagram as well is Charles has a it's almost like his
right ear is a little different than his left ear and it's more more of a circle
and it kind of sticks out a little bit more and if you look at the pictures of [ __ ] number three definitely has the
same type of situation going on with his right ear as well it almost looks like like a
deformity like almost like a wrestler would have but um yeah that's the only thing that
kind of sticks out to me to go well maybe maybe that could be him but then when you look at possible other pictures
of um Charles when he gets a little older what maybe they think he he would have looked like or what
it doesn't look anywhere close to him what's interesting here is there is a little proof in the pudding there is
some reason to speculate that this is a possibility and I think we should continue down that
rabbit hole so we have John R Craig and Philip a Rogers no relation to Charles Rogers in the early 90s they released a
book called the man on the grassy knoll did the CIA hire a psychopath to assassinate JFK now
the psychopath is Charles Rogers but also could be Charles Harrison right now who is Charles Harrelson
Charles Harrelson is Woody Harrelson's father yeah this is a weird story but it sounds like we're making this up
right and then and then that was the father of who well cheers I almost feel bad telling
this story because Woody Harrelson's one of my favorite actors he's amazing I feel like I'm like I'm just doing a
disservice to a man that I I enjoy his work very much in September of 1982 Contract Killer
Charles Harrelson this is one thing that you got to factor in here nobody's really arguing that two
of these three men that they're saying could be the three tramps have already murdered other people or
went on to murder other people so they're known killers that they're filling the shoes of these three tramps
in September of 1982 Charles Harrelson while wanted for the murder of federal judge John Wood Jr quote unquote
confessed to killing the judge and President Kennedy during a six-hour standoff with police which later it was
determined that Harrelson was high on cocaine we have several witnesses that that witnessed this man state that not
only did I kill the judge but I killed President Kennedy as well these Witnesses later testified that they
didn't really believe Harrelson but these are words that Charles Harrelson said known killer yeah and the way that the
book puts this Theory together the man on the grassy knoll is that you had Harrelson a contract killer someone that
you could hire to go off and kill someone and Charles Rogers someone who we know spent time in the
Navy served in World War II that these two men were going to be additional shooters that they would be the ones
shooting of the Two Tramps in this Chauncey Holt would be a lookout right and the way that this Theory works is
that they were involved with the CIA they were CIA operatives and they were also working with Oswald
and what's interesting one thing that I found fascinating in the book itself is they show a picture
anybody that's seen the movie JFK by Oliver Stone will know exactly what I'm talking about they they spent a good
portion of that movie I understand that it's a movie but they spent a good portion of that movie in New Orleans
where they show Lee Harvey Oswald passing out leaflets for the Cuba movement or whatever they were calling
it well they show a picture in this book of Lee Harvey Oswald passing out said leaflets the fair play for Cuba leaflets
in New Orleans this on August 16 1963. this is not just some random photograph this is a photograph from
wdsv TV in New Orleans in the picture you can see reporters you can see several other persons all
dressed like Oswald this is dark pants white button-up shirt with the tie passing out these leaflets in this
picture here Chauncey Holt who is later said to be one of the three tramps identifies a man who is on the far right
of this picture as as being Charles Rogers who he says he didn't know as Charles Rogers he knew him under the
name of Richard Montoya and he says that he was an agent that he worked with with Oswald he was a CIA
agent is what you're saying according to this Chauncey Holt right and there's also evidence or belief that
Oswald had a office and um and like the CIA or the FBI they had a building that Oswald had a
office with inside so there's other people that have made those claims that Oswald has worked for
our government in many different capacities right and again this theory has quite a
bit of holes to it and really the interlocking Theory here is that in some form or fashion all four including
Oswald Chauncey Holt Charles Rogers and Charles Harrelson were all working contracted or employed by the CIA during
this assassination of JFK right well think about the difference that would have made
after Oswald was shot and killed if they would have said oh by the way he was working for the government wait so the
guy that you arrested that you believe killed the president was working for the government
that seems a little fishy well I'm not going to lie the pictures that I've seen and been able to compare
uh to the ones where Chauncey Holt are saying look in this picture taken in August of 63
in New Orleans it does appear to me that Lee Harvey Oswald's in the picture as well as a man that Lois Gibson later
identified as Charles Rogers and that Chauncey Holt later identified as Charles Rogers one thing that's
important here too that's interesting is that in the mid-1950s Charles Rogers joined the Civil Air Patrol where he
reportedly met David Ferry who is believed to be a possible alleged conspirator in the assassination of
President Kennedy as well isn't he the only man that has actually been brought to trial
no that was Clay Shaw that was brought to trial by Garrison but again some of that people made a bunch of claims
against saying that he knew who ozold was he denied it and then later they found
pictures and then found out that they were in the same Civil Air Patrol so it's as much as there's holes
there's a lot that are connecting the dots at least before we move on I do want to mention
Charles Harrelson was three times tried for murder this is three separate murders this would be the murder of
Allen Berg Sam degalia and the murder of Judge John H Wood Jr that is the one that during the standoff for his arrest
he admitted to killing the judge and Kennedy this is how you tie him to being one of the three Tramps and he does look
like one of them he went on to be convicted of two homicides and later I know that he attempted to escape prison
on at least one occasion now the problem here though Captain is where this story falls apart of these
three men two of them won a known killer the other Charles Rogers believed very much to be a killer
[Music] where this falls apart is it looks like shortly after the release of the book
The Man from the grassy knoll the three tramps were identified and none of them were what Lois Gibson said uh Charles
Rogers Charles Harrelson or Chauncey Holt yeah but I think I think the three tramps have been identified a million
times now I don't know if they've been correctly identified you're correct right they
it's been again various allegations of who the three tramps were throughout the history ever since Garrison held up that
photo on The Tonight Show this has been going on since the late 60s I mean some people say these guys were arrested
whoever they put their names down as that's who they were and they maybe had ID or had somebody check it out or
whatever and then there's other people that have said these guys were arrested and they used fake names
so I mean I I have never heard uh any solid confirmation other than look at this picture and compare it with
this other picture well this is another confusing explanation but the explanation goes is this that the three
tramps were identified in 1992 as Gus Abrams Harold Doyle and John Gedney this is from journalist Mary
lefontaine who discovered the November 22nd 1963 arrest records that the Dallas Police Department had released in 1989
which named the three men as Gus W Abrams Harold Doyle and John F gidney according to the arrest reports the
three men were taken off a boxcar and the railroad yards right after President Kennedy was shot detained and
investigated as prisoners described as unemployed and passing through the Dallas area then released four days
later an immediate search for the three men by the FBI and others prompted by an
article by Rey and Mary LaFontaine on the front page of the February 9 1992 Houston Post less than one month later
the FBI reported that Abrams would was dead and that interviews with gidney and Doyle revealed no new information about
the assassination right it being the FBI's claim that they tracked down all three of these men and none of them used
a fake name when they were arrested and this report stating that the three Tramps in air quotes were held for about
four days interviewed by a current affair remember that old TV show in 1992 Doyle came
forward said that he was aware of the allegations and did not come forward for fear of being implicated in the
assassination he added quote I am a plain guy a simple country boy that's the way I want to stay I wouldn't be a
celebrity for 10 million dollars kidney independently affirmed Doyle's account and a researcher who Tracked
Down Abram's sister confirmed that Abrams lived the life of a train Hopper and died in 1987.
that all seems pretty firm to me having two of the individuals coming forward and then the sister of the deceased
third [ __ ] stating yes everything seems on the up and up with these claims where
it gets wonky is that we have people that that push the idea and there's probably some proof to back this up I'm
guessing I've not seen it I don't know but uh they're saying look Dallas Police have
claimed to have lost the records of these arrests as well as the mugshots and the fingerprints so what are we to
believe about the identity of these quote-unquote three tramps yeah because if you gave me enough time I probably
could actually pull up three maybe six different names that I've read in the past that don't
match those names that that you're just giving in that report but but that's the problem with this
case or the problem with the the JFK assassination case what's really interesting is the icebox murders which
is a very different book from that of the man on the grassy knoll I do want to point out here with the man on the grass
that you know the authors I'm sure they've worked their butts off putting together this book it's of
incredibly interesting book I it was a fascinating read not a question however I I don't want to jump
way off subject I just want to point this out the picture on the cover of the man with grassy
knoll that's supposed to be Charles Rogers yes right I'm just going to throw this out there
because I was watching um that new show it's like it's not Unsolved Mysteries but it's
called something like that with uh Lawrence Fishburne okay and they were going over the DB Cooper case and
it wouldn't be that far off of a match for Charles Roger I mean I think they have DB Cooper being
a little bit taller but but not a lot taller um but I could see that photo matching a
little bit of the the composite sketch yeah I guess I mean Charles Rogers looks like you're pretty average Joe there's
nothing remarkable to me about his General appearance so that that makes it difficult you
could lump them in a whole bunch of different ways the the problem with the theory put
forth in the man on the grassy knoll is it it really just seems to be a theory based off of Lois Gibson saying look
these three men's pictures matched the pictures that I've seen and I have of the three Tramps and then they are
compounding that with this quote-unquote cocaine confession of Charles Harrelson
while he's in the middle of a standoff and shootout with police right so it's very very very
loosey-goosey now what isn't loosey-goosey is the book the icebox murders both of those authors say
We Believe Charles Rogers murdered his parents took this Cadillac got out of Dodge
hopped in his Cessna and went down to South America where he lived and worked for several years and that no one he was
being aided and abetted by people that still lived in the United States in the state of Texas they didn't come forward
to turn Charles Rogers in because he was making a good amount of money for them in their mining operations down in South
America right he's helping them find gold and oil very valuable things and what happened to Charles Rogers
according to the icebox murders book they did say the thing that's interesting is look we couldn't find
anything to connect him directly to the assassination of John F Kennedy however we found things that do connect him to
the CIA they don't say he ever worked for them or was contracted by the CIA but they
said it is certainly possible they left that window open yeah what they believe happened to Charles
Rogers is that there was a wage dispute at one of these mining operations and the the miners attacked him and killed
him with a pickaxe and threw his body in a river and because of the nature of the attack
the heat the river itself the body was not able to be fully identified the best that they could come up with was a known
associate of Charles Rogers was this man named John Mackey who was running mining
businesses in Honduras and Mexico the Honduras authorities went to John Mackey saying that an American geologist
had been killed by a group of miners with a pickaxe they threw him in the river could you identify this man he
said I don't know who he is but again this book is not considered to be factual it's considered to be partially factual
85 factual so their claim there is that that Charles Rogers would have been working for in making money for John
Mackey at the time that he was killed by these miners yes which is very possible
I'm sorry back to the whole point of the DB Cooper History's Greatest Mysteries it's hosted by Lawrence Fishburne they
took on the DB Cooper case what's interesting about what they found because normally when they take on these
greatest Mysteries they walk away with whatever they started this uh is different they actually walked away with
DNA that they're going to be able to present to the FBI so now they believe they have DB Coopers DNA on file
and I'm saying just for the record that's a very far stretch that Charles Rogers is you know connected at all with
DB Cooper or that he would be DB Cooper but we're connected with JFK or yeah or Oswald or any of them but it's so
fascinating that you have this horrific murder and the number one suspect goes missing
and we know that he worked for you know he was in the Navy so he has other those
connections but he has also these connections and oil where we know oil a lot of money
money equals power he would have a lot of resources to go like you said and possibly live his life
somewhere else which if he's responsible for these murders there's no way he should be living
around anybody it's an intriguing case it's still technically opened even though Houston Police believe that
Charles Rogers is absolutely responsible for the murder of his parents what became of Charles Rogers we don't know
and he's never been found even to this day all these years later it's an intriguing case an intriguing
conversation with intriguing possibilities oh [Music] thanks for joining us here in the garage
for more True Crime garage download the Stitcher app and check out our bonus show called off the Record Colonel do we
have any recommended reading this week it is with absolute great joy and excitement that we recommend The Killers
Shadow the FBI's hunt for a white supremacist serial killer by legendary FBI profiler John Douglas the killer
Shadow is available as of November 17th and all of the best forms hardcover paperback audiobook on Audible and
Kindle and you don't have to write that title down right now as we have that great title and many others on our
recommended page at truecrime garage.com and until next week be good be kind and
don't litter foreign [Music]

The Ice Box Murders /// Part 2 /// 444

Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

June 1965 - Houston, Texas. Over the course of Father’s Day weekend someone murdered Fred and Edwina Rogers in their home. The killer dismembered the victims and stuffed them in the refrigerator. Who killed the elderly couple? What was the motive or motives for the murders? Join us in the Garage as we go back in time and review this cold case.

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Icebox Murders, Charles Rogers' disappearance, and theories linking him to the JFK assassination.

Key points

The Icebox Murders. In June 1965, Fred and Edwina Rogers were found murdered and dismembered in their home, leading to a nationwide manhunt for their son Charles.
Charles Rogers: The Ghost. After the murders, Charles Rogers became a local legend and the subject of fear among neighborhood kids.
Theories of Motive. Two prevailing theories suggest Charles may have killed his parents due to abuse and financial disputes.
The Three Tramps Theory. Exploring the conspiracy theory surrounding the three men arrested after JFK's assassination.
Charles Harrelson's Confession. Contract killer Charles Harrelson confessed to killing JFK during a standoff with police.
Identifying the Three Tramps. The identities of the three tramps arrested post-assassination have long been debated.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen.

Captain's humorous remark about his financial situation.

0:58WatchNov 11, 2022

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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