Off The Record /// MindHunter | Forensic Files

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] I love that intro you know I have or had
thanks two of our hoodies mhm so one that I wear and I wear it often you know in the colder months but the second one
I gave away because uh we kind of mentioned this on our show there were so many people that that like wanted the
hoodies clearly wanted them because then you brought them back and because we received so many emails of people saying
hey I I I didn't buy one for whatever reason so I gave one to a friend of mine because she failed to get one actually I
think her husband was supposed to buy her one yeah but he but but he he did what so many other people did they
didn't think that the sale was actually going to end and so he didn't get one I tried to do my buddy a solid and so I
gave him the the second one I had that I wasn't wearing I hadn't wore it yet but
this was an extra large men's hoodie mhm so what backfired like he thought he's like oh I'm going to be
like super husband because she's going to get a hoodie that she really wanted but when he gave it to her it's for like
a giant man and so she was is a little upset like you think I'm this this is what size you think I am you think I'm
you think I'm fat you think I'm Colonel size yeah that's what that's extra crispy konel yeah good for your buddy
yeah so hopefully I I'm going to I'm going to text him and tell him hey they're they're they're selling again
get one s write the ship my friend it's selling like hot cakes my friend we've been looking for an excuse to talk about
mine hunter and you found found it for us cuz this is a subject that we bring up from time to time when we have our
little weekly phone calls well here's the thing okay so super busy with the show
mhm I think when we started I don't think I ever thought would be this busy cuz we never thought when we started we
weren't this busy we were actually doing the show and we weren't this busy yeah but I think it's because we didn't think
it would take off right like I kind of thought like maybe some people will listen and and we'll keep doing our jobs
and and and keep finding our way through this world but this there'll be this other thing that we do mhm yeah but now
we're doing three shows a week yeah three shows a week and then on top of that I mean the amount of emails and
then keeping up with the store and the websites and then now that we've covered so many cases now keeping up with the
updates on the old case es um social media is just out of hand I mean we get messages every day that that we can't
even get to so yeah so but that being said Netflix has become one of my best friends well
cuz it's just sitting there waiting for you whenever you're ready to turn it on and enjoy something to watch it's just
it's just all kind of parked right there for you I'm a big Prime guy myself uh I
like I like to the only confusing thing for me is I get confused on whether things are on Netflix or prime for you
know future viewing so I have to do a lot of hunting and searching around well I love the fact that they're small
series they might be a eight parter or a 10 parter so you can really dive into the show within let's say a week if
you're if you have a slow week and you're and you're going to relax and and plus too what I like to do is when I'm
working on the music for the shows I like to turn something on watch it while I start creating some
music and then I'll pause the or even just have something in the background like so you don't feel like you're in an
empty room yeah and I I loved uh atypical which was on Netflix um that wasn't crimer related at all I really
liked Ozark a ton MH and I'm not that type of show suspense um kind of Lobster type shows
not into them but Ozark was fabulous Jason baitman is a goddamn genius and then mind Hunter which I thought okay
cuz this storyline you know was in book it's been in movie form it's been hinted
at in different movie forms I didn't think I was going to like it first episode I was like main character don't
like mhm by the second episode hooked well and you like the main character now yeah I mean he's not my favorite
character on the show but okay the the older cop is absolutely my favorite Bill what's his character's name Bill Dench
or something like something like that and then Bill Bill tench I'm sorry yeah and then on top of that the cars we've
talked about it before but it's like the the time period of the 70s and they're always they're constantly going from
town to town so they're Ren cars mhm so you constantly get to see these different cars that you haven't seen in
in years and years this is probably a show that I've recommended I don't know to I mean it
feels like to everybody that you know I love getting into those conversations of
H what should I watch or I just finished this and this and it was great and now I'm looking for something else I love
those conversations so this one probably other than True Detective season one uh
this is like my f True True Detective season 1 is probably the best thing that's ever been on TV but but it's also
like 20 some episodes so it's it's a commitment yes you and here's the bad thing about Netflix though is uh I had a
friend Emma from Australia tell me to watch Gypsy I was like three episodes in it
was a pile of dog [ __ ] and then like but then I I need did to know the ending right so I fast
forward through like I'd start the episode fast through you know fast forward through the song um they' start
talking I kind of know what's going on so I'd fast forward and then I just basically fast forward through the next
like five episodes or whatever and then you get to the end and it was still a huge pile of dog [ __ ] I was still mad at
her for suggesting that show I was talking with somebody Friday night and they said they were watching something I
can't remember the name of it uh I did I purposely didn't remember the name of it
because he was like it's no good and I'm like oh I'm like okay well why did you mention that you know what I mean like
we were all standing around talking about stuff we're watching and he goes it's no good and I go oh did you know
did you bail on it he goes well I'm about four and a half episodes into it and I keep I keep returning and trying
to make my way through it I said why he goes I had a couple people tell me it was good I'm waiting for it to get good
how long are you going to wait for it to get good yeah so and I think the weird thing too is
when it's a eight-part series or a 10p part series some of the shows like Ozark because of the style of the show mhm
it's a suspense show it has there's a lot of drama there's a lot every episode is kind of like oh [ __ ] mhm and then
sometimes these these eight part 10p part series there's a couple slower episodes and but when there's some
really um Dynamic episodes with the other series I think it kind of hurts the format well
we've been waiting for M Hunter to come back on and for those of you not aware of what it is it's weird because um I
think I think a good amount of our garage friends listen or watch mine hunter and if they don't I think it
would work well for for a lot of them um but it's I the general description I give it the most plain and simple is
it's like the more adult version more True Crime version of Criminal Minds you know the I think that's on like CBS or
some one of the big networks I think the thing here is um especially you know like we're
talking about earlier is being so engrossed into the podcast and and having to kind of put ourselves in the
True Crime World almost every day whether we want to or not it was kind of a weird thing because I was getting
burned out on True Crime and even though it's a true crime show it's it's not a true crime show it's a crime show but I
think because that it's fiction that it kind of like reboosted me into what we were doing like and and and realizing
that you know the premise of the show basically is that there's these two detectives these two FBI agents and they
have to go around telling people in in police departments about different techniques that the FBI
uses and that's their main job and on top of that they're starting to try to um look at the idea of usage
psychology and profiling profiling these killers so they can get ahead of of them
so when they're looking uh for suspects and stuff that they can use psychology and it's kind of about how the FBI
starts implementing that into um their their tactics well yeah and and trying to one get ahead of the curve in the
sense of if they have a Serial murder situation how do they investigate it but also catching up in the way that look
the the FBI figured out at some point that the 1900s what that brought with the uh with cars and new technology
what that brought was the the huge increase of stranger on Stranger crimes and murders right and then also more uh
serial murders and I actually was I was listening to somebody give a talk last week and he referred to the to the uh I
think he he he chose the 70s 80s and 90s he said that 30-year span was like the the Golden Age of serial killers uh and
he was talking about how many more of them and how more active they were back then as compared to today and then he
gave his thoughts on why he thought that was why did we see such a jump and increase during that and we don't have
to we don't have to rely on memory too much to start thinking of a lot of the very famous serial killers that came
around that we you know that we became aware of during those 30 years Bundy gayy yeah and so this is the their
thought of in in the true story of how the FBI decided hey you know let's teach investigative tools to different local
law enforcement officers in departments so they can learn how to investigate murders better and have increased their
solve rate but then on top of that it's these guys uh just a couple guys along with the psychiatrist I don't I can't
recall her name but it's a small group of people people that said you know what what we should do is interview the ones
that we already know about go to the prisons and let's talk to them and let's figure out get inside their minds a
little bit inside their brains and figure out what's going on with them what makes them tick what makes them
kill how do they get how can we catch them faster all that kind of stuff and the interesting thing and the thing that
you and I kind of joked about which was so weird because season one the guy that
played I I should have like jotted down some of these actors names and stuff but the guy that
played Ed keer like you and I like it was weird because we you kind of want to he seems so nice
and friendly when he plays that character that you want to kind of just sit at a kitchen table with him and eat
pizza and shoot the [ __ ] but then you have to remind yourself hey this this dude in real life killed 10 people well
I didn't have to remind myself cuz he I think he does a good job of being um scary at times yeah just the size of the
man pure size of the yeah I mean big big boy mhm uh yeah but yeah it's definitely
uh but he's does such a great job and there's so many great acting moments in the show and the thing that's really
interesting is like we were saying before I think um when we're talking about I was
confused because they were interviewing actual killers and if you look at like the Ed keer like interview in mind
Hunter it's pretty much the same as it is if you look at the real interview on YouTube mhm like it's almost the same
words mhm I didn't know that the little cases in between that they were solving were actual real cases well and you
remember the one with the rock uh where they brought the rock into the interrogation room and that was um
uh the main character's idea to do that it's it's interesting and I tell you what I recommend anybody read the actual
book mind Hunter by John Douglas because that's where a lot of these stories in season 1 come from or actual cases that
he worked and I believe and I've said this before I believe Bill tench that character the the older gentleman who I
I do enjoy him very much like he's he he really holds the show from but uh I believe he's playing Robert K wrestler
who was another very famous accomplished uh FBI profiler and agent who helped solve and work so many cases throughout
his lengthy career but so a bit long overdue it feels like for me anyway wanting season two to come come out
because I I mean I've been looking forward to this since I wrapped up watching season one so much so that I
watched season one twice and so I found an article Captain I thought we could just kind of chat
through it here but it's it's somebody asking you know this this place asking questions about when to expect season 2
what's going on with season two of Mind Hunter yeah I think that's the tough thing with the Netflix series is that
first they have to put them out and then they have to see if they're well received and not just well watched
because just because something's watched a bunch doesn't mean that anybody's going to watch season too if people
think it's a pile of dog [ __ ] well this article this is the first time I actually saw this in print this was
something I had heard before but this kind of backs it up they were saying that mine
hunter um season two it was already renewed to do a second season before this first season
even came out so meaning whoever made this thing and that Netflix itself the Big Wigs there probably have decided hey
it's that good we're going to trust this and we're going to put out at least two seasons of
it to see if it takes hold I think season 1 was successful enough that I think they're they're feeling good that
they already renewed for season 2 before season 1 came out now the release date that's what I want to know when when is
it going to be released and according to this article they are referencing an old
interview with people working on mind Hunter who said that it will be out next year and these people took that to mean
late next year I couldn't remember where I had read this or seen this but you and
I had this conversation before I swear I saw somewhere I read somewhere months and months ago that it was slated for
November of 2018 for season 2 but I don't there's technically no actual confirmed release date at this moment
right so yeah they talked to uh Cameron written I I believe is his name that played Ed keer okay and I think they
interviewed four different Sero Killers within the show it was Ed keer Monty uh wristle Russell or Russell yeah well
it's r i SS he's the one that um he was killing girls in his truck or out just out you know chasing them into the woods
from his truck and then Speck that yeah he was the nurse killer in um Illinois yeah he was more of a onot guy who was
the shoe guy Jerry brutos yeah that the actor that played him happy Anderson is his name his real name's happy Anderson
yeah that that guy did a great job that guy he did a great job because he's so damn creepy well the thing is with uh
the with Cameron Britton doing such a great job with Ed keer I think happy Anderson kind of got overlooked
I I age I think I mean out of those two you could argue though that there he he would go round for round with him oh I
definitely I remember when he came on cuz he's a big dude too yeah that guy oh man that's I'm having flashbacks
of what he did through those shoes well and all four of those people that we just referenced are real life serial
killers that were interviewed by the FBI after they were put away for their crimes right and they've based a lot of
their investigative uh tools and things that they use going forward and how they
profile a lot of these guys based off of those interviews that they did specifically I mean Ed keer was one of
those dudes he loved to talk to him right he you didn't have to beg and pull answers out of him he would sit and talk
to you and he he's so matter of fact and he was that way in real life and the actor who portrayed him did such a great
job job of just being he sounds like he's sipping coffee reading the Sunday newspaper telling you about stories that
do not involve him yet the story in the subject matter is him murdering a a co-ed yeah you wonder how much of that
is how much medicine they put these you know individuals on um or if it's that you're in jail you're locked up it's
done and and at at some point the more days that you drift from the crime mhm you know what I mean like it's almost
like it probably on some level doesn't even feel real well I think they did a good job of
kind of showing some of that because and it and this is what H happened in real life too so you have Ed keer who was
always kind of a police wannabe um one of the reasons why he didn't uh end up becoming a police officer was his mother
told him he was too tall he was too big to be a police officer so he didn't pursue it the way that most would pursue
their career Dreams yeah even though in the show they they the setup there is that the police told him he was too tall
yeah and the thing though with with with keer he he was the type that he wanted to hang out with the FBI and he wanted
to talk to him so there was no problem getting information and answers from him he was even very like accommodating like
hey if you guys show up I'll provide the food so we can sit here and chat as long
as possible and then you have somebody like Jerry brutos who was different he wanted to sit down and play a game with
him he wanted to kind of tease them and he was only going to give them information if they gave him things
right you know if they gave him things in in return and if they played his game and he also didn't mind trying to upset
the agents and the officers and try to piss him off well and I think that's what made keer different yeah is that he
was interested in the conversation where a lot of these guys again I I for whatever reason I I I think keer did his
crimes they were done with he was done with those crimes as far as his attachment to them this is just my
speculation and I think these other individuals thought hey there might be one day that I get out I'm not done
killing I'm not done doing what I'm doing right um and so now you got these FBI agents that want to talk to me I'm
going to use this to my advantage mhm so season 2 here's what we're according to
this article Captain here's what we're supposed to expect from season 2 so season one was 10 episodes hopefully
less sex they're going to shorten it to eight episodes for season two that's kind of a bummer yeah and but here's on
the upside it says here that the Holt Mallen mcy sorry hope I jotted down his name I
kind of scribbled it he's the guy that plays Bill tench yeah apparently he has told somebody in an interview that he's
been told that they want to do five seasons if everything goes as planned and everybody Tunes in and watches that
the idea is that they will do five seasons of Mind Hunter and I don't know we need to get on this show I don't know
does that mean does it get shorter each year or they going to just base the number of episodes around what's going
on during that time frame you know with the characters what's what's going on in
their FBI career because what it says here is things that we should expect are uh
Marilyn Marilyn Manson Charles Manson Marilyn Manson's going to be on the show Tex
Watson um which is interesting because they did reference Charles Manson in EP in the first season yeah they did uh
I've never been been that interested in Manson though well I think Manson would be kind of like a a peak moment for
season 2 I bet you the way that I would guess that they would do this they probably interview Tex Watson first and
then Charles Manson second just for to build the uh excitement right I don't know I don't know what order they
interviewed them in real life and all they say in season one is you you see a lot of this um this every episode you
see random scenes of this individual um and they don't tell you who the individual is and even when you
look at the cast of characters they just list this individual as a ADT serviceman
yeah the ADT servic man or ADT man right and we know him that that's the BTK killer we know that you know through
research right but so he's in season 1 but but never speaks and we I don't think they actually show him
perpetrating any crimes do they no well they show him a couple times where he's in somebody's house with duct tape and
gloves on and and nobody comes home which which happened like he remember he gets all mad and like pounds his chest
and he leaves did did he do that in the show yeah yeah okay so so we know that BTK could be a part of season
two hopefully he's a part of season two well that would be interesting because um I think what they're they're
going to focus in on is the Atlanta child murders right which which is very cool because they were super involved in
that now with it only being Eight Episodes I'm wondering how many episodes is that going to take up because they
were there for a long time we're talking about they they were involved in the investigation the apprehension and the
conviction way Williams you think that's in this season that's what according to
um uh David Fincher right one of The Producers yeah he told billboard magazine well hold on producer and
director he's director he told billboard magazine that um that the Atlanta child
murders will be involved in season 2 okay and so I'm guessing it's going to be a lot of because this went on from 79
to 81 yeah but that see that's what I'm wondering because I told somebody if they're going to be Geniuses right
have BTK where you show glimpses of him in the season one do it again in season to
don't get into hunting you know hunting for BTK yet well but if they're if they're going
to follow real life then they actually won't be involved with BTK that much which is you know I mean it's
interesting that yeah but he's in the show so we know he's unless they just like write that off completely but that
would be weird no no no no no that's not what I mean I don't mean that it's never
going to be a part of the show it clearly obviously is what I'm saying is in real life that the FBI was more
consulted than um involved right and so I think if I'm just going off of memory here I think that the first time that
the FBI was contacted I could be completely wrong but what I seem to remember is that the FBI was contacted
and got involved and offer offered advice to the police departments back in 1976 which um you know and like I said
they had some involvement in and out of the case throughout the years but it's such a long lengthy case that like you
said they could work in and they could show Dennis Raider committing some of his atrocities right in season 2 they
could show some loose investigative stuff in season 2 maybe not even until season 3 well I guess they would have to
talk if they follow the real life story they would have to talk to the FBI sometime in season 2 because the Atlanta
child murders took place after the first time law enforcement spoke to the FBI regarding BTK in 76 but with this taking
so long you could have you could potentially not have apprehension of Dennis Raider and till the final season
season five well that's what I'm saying that's what would make the show dope right is like just keep him going
through and maybe that's their playing I mean if one of the main characters was saying in an interview they want to try
to push this to Five Seasons and you know here's what's great is if you're doing like a show like let's say friends
or Seinfeld right you don't know exactly what the end is going to be or or when you're going to slow down or when you're
going to get tired of it but if if you know we're doing mine hunter and there's five seasons here's the start here's the
end you can manipulate it a lot more um what did you think about the uh soundtrack to M Hunter I thought it was
I thought it was good um I just want to give this guy props because I I really liked it uh and he's new he's actually
pretty new to film his name is Jason Hill he did some stuff with uh The Killers did some stuff with David Bowie
uh Robbie Williams you probably know that jet um I was I I was and am a big Jet fan and a New York doll so he's done a
lot of stuff in the in the pop rock world and but what's cool is his first film score was Gone Girl which is a
pretty big yeah I mean hey we're going to give you a film score go with gong girl we know it and they knew Gone Girl
was going to be a Smash Hit and now his his second composing um Endeavor is on mind Hunter which is which is wow you
know he hit the lottery but hey uh uh Jason Hill if you need any help contact me Captain at True Crime garage hey and
I'm happy to just kind of sit there and listen with a clipboard offer uh opinions unwanted opinions yeah the
colonel he will go get us beer that's right Chinese food whatever we need so cigars they're going to have to get
somebody to play Charles Manson which will be interesting to see who they cast for that and I know you you know that
doesn't really do much for you but we know that I just think he's a yeah but you know the interview is
going to be interesting okay I'm going to say this I'm probably going to get a lot of [ __ ] but here's here's what I
think the fact that he didn't kill anybody that he didn't like actually physically kill anybody well he may have
killed an officer or um well we don't know that for sure or one of the uh somebody that lived nearby I I I haven't
looked at that case in a long time but no I get what you're saying like he's he's and here's the thing it's it's the
people that are weird that have like some kind of they love the celebrity of serial killers and the the celebrity of
murder which I've never understood this is not like watching slasher films this is not like Freddy Krueger or Jason mik
these are not people to cheer on these are not people to have a favorite of or to wear a shirt that says remember kids
Charlie loves you you know and and I get what you're saying but those people that
that celebriti murderers that that make you know believe them to be somebody special well they that group holds
Charles Manson in a high regard and it's just annoying it's just annoying cuz if
you really wanted to set some kind of pecking order as far as these individuals go you and I know from
enough of what we've done and looked into he's kind of just a low-level scumbag who's really good at conning
people reading people's emotions and feelings and manipulating them to do his [ __ ] and he's just kind of crazy he kind
he's just kind of crazy and weak right but I actually don't think he was good at any of that I actually don't think he
was that intelligent at all uh I think it was mainly during a time where people were using psychedelic drugs and then
he's the weirdo that everybody's falling around I mean I I do find it very interesting his connections with the
beach boys and their management teams um the fact that Brian Wilson instantly said that this there's something
completely evil about this guy and and I think possibly Brian Wilson saw that stuff because he was on so many uh
hallucinogenics and all that stuff but uh but no but it's like if you said put me in a you know here you got to go in a
room and you got to out of these 10 Killers you got to you know put you know you're going to be locked in the cell
with one of them mhm I take man that's fine I would not be scared either like they go you got to go in the cell and I
go okay it's Manson here we go well and from my understanding Manson was pretty afraid himself like he right i' walk
into that cell I kick the living [ __ ] out of him and then after he got back up
then I kick the [ __ ] out of him again and then I make him sing me some of his shitty songs then I make fun of his
shitty songs and then I tell him how the Beach Boys hated him everybody hates him
he's not going to get a record deal then I kick his ass again he was I believe he
was allowed to leave his cell for I think one hour a day and from everything I read and stuff that I found he would
usually turn that privilege down daily and often he would only leave his cell a couple of times a month to do things
like shower or whatever because he he was so afraid that somebody was going to take him out like he was the dude was
really just a big [ __ ] is all well the the problem there is because he he he wanted to be famous so then when he got
the when they Shine the Light on him and they're like oh man and he's crazy and people started idolizing him he started
playing into that well and then they right but by by playing into that then you get some real badass dudes that are
like I'm going to kill this [ __ ] and if I kill him then I become famous well I'm looking forward to the
interview because you know that's they're going to sit down on M Hunter and interview Charles Manson's character
and I think that's going to be interesting it could be as interesting and weird as the Jerry brutos and Ed
keer interviews um and then they're gonna have to get somebody to play Wayne Williams too the can't we have Ed keer
come back yeah I mean they likely they would talk to him again I would think but I
just have him like on the phone where they could because remember he's like uh let's stay in touch right and it's like
you could get to the point where it's just like even if it didn't happen in the books even if it didn't happen even
in real life he's such a good character that you could just have him call and hey Ed you know and and just have him on
the show MH you know can I have last slice of pizza fellas well the the interesting thing
that John Douglas says in his book when talking about getting ready to go in to interview Ed keer for the first time
that he and uh wrestler were worried they were a little intimidated to interview him not by his size but he had
such a high IQ that he would they were they were they were not used to not being the
smartest guy in the room and Ed you know what his his IQ was his IQ was like EXT
like like insanely high like there's different reports all over the place but and I fancy John Douglas and Robert K
wrestler to be very intelligent individuals but for for those two to recognize that they were not the
smartest guy in the room during the course of that interview and say that that intimidated them because they were
worried how he might be able to manipulate his answers and manipulate them in their research that they're
trying to conduct yeah yeah and I think the difference is like I said I think Ed
was at the point where because of his uh I think he had a pretty high respect for law enforcement
and then on top of that he had respect for the FBI so I think if he didn't have that then
we're looking at a lot of different kind of information that you're going to get
from him but I think he genuinely had respect for the FBI so I think he wanted to help him I think he
and I think he thought that um I don't know maybe this does some good in the world mhm maybe I'm I'm
giving Ed too much credit well no but what's weird about Ed keer is he this is kind of a weird way to put it
but it but he did what many psychiatrists thousands and thousands of psychiatrists and psychologists have
tried to do throughout the years he cured himself of being a serial killer but in the sense that he killed his mom
turned himself in and said look I realized I finally realized all these years I was just trying to kill my mom
had I killed her first I probably wouldn't have killed anybody else you know so what's so weird about him is he
he in a sense did what all these other psychi psychiatrist and psychologists could not do for all these years well
and then an interesting thing on that too because you know you always have to go back to this
idea of Nature and nurture and it's always probably a percentage of each right but you take some kid that maybe
you know 20% likely to become a serial killer but his dad beats the [ __ ] out of
him every day and molest him MH now that percentage goes up higher and I think Ed uh I think had a re this is just my
gut feeling I think Ed had a very small percent in his DNA and everything that of him being becoming a killer mhm and I
think he had a very verb abusive and mentally abusive um mother right and I think that destroyed him and then so
then you get the FBI coming in and talking to you and they're one being friendly with you
showing you respect and and probably giving him some kind of praise for the information they're getting mhm and so I
think again then you go oh well now I'm getting positive feedback and this guy is so intelligent this guy is going to
bring more to the table um than than most people would MH yeah I can't wait I'm very much looking forward to do they
have any other names um no that's all that they said for this but it's but but again so Eight Episodes and if you try
to break it down okay Charles Manson will probably take up one full episode an interview with Tex Watson could take
up the majority of one episode we probably have a little BTK action kind of peppered in throughout season two and
then I would also I would expect the Wayne Williams Atlanta child murders to probably take up three four maybe even
five episodes I mean that kind of fills out season two and you think that's in two
yeah okay that that's what was said according to this Fincher yeah he said okay so then the question is okay you
have to be in a cell with a serial killer who would you be absolutely freaked like
in 5 minutes I'm putting you in a cell with this serial killer no guards no nothing oh I mean there's a very long
list of no but I'm saying like the number one that you're like oh no I don't H I don't know about that I know
I'm kind of scrolling through the worst people to ever walk the planet in my mind right now and trying to think you
got to think size too cuz like size matters it does matter yeah yeah that's what she said uh but I think I mean cuz
Bundy wasn't that big well and there's some debate if he would have had the ability to kill a man I think he
probably would have there's his lawyer said it one time that he Bundy told him he did kill a man at one point right
um but but again he has a type you know what I mean like some of these dudes have a type and they just don't break
that type um child Childers with one I know child Killers don't scare me so you're asking
me who would who would terrify me yeah yeah child Killers don't scare me usually
women Killers don't scare me either I don't I don't know man it's a difficult that's you kind of put me on
the because even like Ed would be weird because how his size there's a guy that's not very well known um and I
think his name is William sap that is a dude that when you said that statement that he kind of popped in
my mind first without like really thinking and going through everything thing he kind of popped in my mind first
because I I've heard interviews and read things with him where he was the kind of
guy that like you remember that old Mega thing killing is my business and business is
good that dude he just like he just kills that's he's just like a killing machine you know what I mean like he
doesn't care who you are what you are what if he decides you're dead you're dead you're you're pretty much going to
die and then who's the Iceman I can't remember his name but we discussed the icean at one point um the he was more of
a Hitman right um that dude would terrify me he's he's quite old now if he's still even still alive he might be
dead um but he uh he was kind of a large dude and he not he was weird because being a Hitman he enjoyed the killing
part of it like he was a serial killer that was getting paid to kill people basically right yeah it's weird because
it you know you get in that cell let's just say you have to be in that cell that doesn't mean that you to fight this
individual but but also like your personalities could Clash real quick right and then you might be fighting
this individual that's that's the cuz I I don't think me and Ed keer would get along at all which is weird
cuz Ed seems like a person that might be fairly easy to get along with but his size is so so intimidating I mean he's
according to Wikipedia he's 6'9 yeah that's that's giant that makes NFL players look small he should have
played the if he had like a a father that was like Hey you go out and play football boy he probably would be like a
professional football player all right you asked me the question so then I throw you on the spot
who well the funny thing is I have a whole list of the the guys that uh I don't I wouldn't mind being in there
with like put me in with Bundy I mean I think I could slip a jab on him uh what's the one from Tony
Muny uh oh wickline is it wickline yeah where he put the head on the nightstand on the nightstand yeah and but but
didn't they have like a bunch of issues with like transporting him well all of the officers were afraid of him yeah and
that's that's very telling because a lot of times officers and detectives are not
afraid of these individuals even very nasty murderers they're not afraid of yeah they're pretty badass this guy they
were afraid of we've had several officers tell us like I think that might be the most dangerous person to ever be
in the state of Ohio yeah and I was thinking about this and I've been trying to spread the word on this and this is
going to sound maybe silly to some people but the the big Advantage cuz cuz somebody said to me like you get these
guys that attack women while they're jogging or whatever right mhm and and their big
Advantage is that they they know that they might have to kill this person right and if you go
into a fight right it's kind of like when you're fighting on the playground and somebody says no kicking in the
balls MH no choking no poking in the eyes mhm then you have this like set of rules but so people this is why I've
been telling everybody if you are a runner if you're a walker a hiker anything carry a knife with you cuz if you get
attacked you need to be able to grab that knife and fight to the death if you have to pepper spray pepper spray is
good Topp because you don't have to engage in close uh you might not have to be that close to them to spray them with
the pepper spray sometimes we'll carry a pepper spray and a knife sometimes the knife gets you in trouble though cuz
it's close quarters combat and and then you end up fighting over the knife that's true but you yeah but but I think
that's the big difference and so it's like when I think if you're going into a room with a killer like you said even
with like the ice man like he he knows how to do it he's done it before he he knows how to get to that level I think
it's hard for a normal human to think to that they have to defend themselves to the death and I think that's that's the
advantage that they would have but yeah I think keer like just size-wise William wickline was his name William
wickline and he he was thankfully he was killed by the state of Ohio uh back in 2004 but he he was convicted of two
murders he probably there's a lot of evidence out there to suggest he may have killed three four five people yeah
wait they said that that the state of Ohio killed him yeah cuz all I remember is them putting me in the cage with that
animal well you said you said you might be afraid of him he he I would be I think he would be on my list for sure
does it say how tall he is yeah I think he he was a pretty big dude and I think that added to why some of these law
enforcement dudes were afraid of him he's I think he was 6'4 yeah that's and but he's referred to as having a a bull
neck which he did I mean when you see pictures of him like his neck looks huge right and he and he's got pretty big
shoulders like he's 6'4 but he's like like one of these big shoulders big neck and kind of wiry after that like he
looks athletic he looks like he can move around and I think that bullneck was extremely intimidating plus I don't I
don't he was not one of these dudes that appeared to have been been like afraid of anybody like I think he liked
intimidating the officers I think he liked saying threatening things to them and like staring them down and stuff
like that like he was a he's a real [ __ ] that [Music] guy [Applause] he

Off The Record /// MindHunter Recorded: 8-20-2018 OTR: 17 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Brief Summary

Hosts discuss Mindhunter, true crime, and podcasting challenges while sharing insights on serial killers and the show's future.

Key points

Mind Hunter's Impact. The show has become a cultural phenomenon, leading to deep discussions about true crime.
Expectations for Season 2. Fans are eager for the second season, hoping for more episodes and less filler.
Manson's Role in Season 2. Marilyn Manson's character is set to play a significant role in the upcoming season.
The Atlanta Child Murders. The investigation into the Atlanta child murders will be a major focus of season 2.
The Importance of Self-Defense. Always be prepared to defend yourself, even to the death if necessary.
William Wickline's Intimidation. A look at the imposing figure of a convicted murderer.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I didn't think I was going to like it first.

Initial skepticism about the show Mind Hunter.

4:51WatchDec 20, 2023

Tension

45/ 100Some tension

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