MindHunter Season 2 /// Off The Record | Forensic Files

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] Hello. >> Hello. Lah. Oh, yeah. I love the internet. Uh last
night I was looking for Mine Hunter clips. I was like, "Oh, I'll just take, you know, a little clip from the show and
post it on like social media." >> Mhm. >> And uh they have this clip. It's I think all it says is Ed Keer
eats a egg salad sandwich. I I saw that same clip. I didn't didn't watch the clip, but when I was looking
things up, that popped up as well. >> It's two minutes. >> Does he talk at all or is he just eating
the sandwich? two. It's like two minutes 13 seconds of him eating, you know, and
it's like cut diagonally, which is the best way to like if you're going to make like a peanut butter jelly
sandwich, you cut it diagonal or or grilled cheese or whatever. So, it's a sandwich cut diagonally. He just eats
one half >> and then he eats the other half and then he just kind of looks in at the camera.
And I'm guessing like I'm I'm guessing it wasn't even for the show. Maybe it was like an actual lunch break that they
filmed and they just thought this is so weird. So, let's just post it. >> Right.
>> Well, if you'd like to see that, you could go to our website or you could go to our Instagram because I posted a
minute of it just because it's so strange. I can't find the actor's name that played
Wayne Williams. I've been looking for that because I wanted to give him a a kudos for I
thought he played the role very well and I thought he did an amazing job. >> Yeah, they made him look a lot like him,
too. What's really weird is years ago when reading about the Atlanta child killings and reading about that case,
like you have a well, I did anyway. I had like an image and a and a mannerisms kind of thing in my head about Wayne
Williams. and he he he like did the role the same way that I kind of thought uh pictured it in my
mind years ago. And having seen Williams on TV as well, because he's done some interviews over the years, I imagine
that's what these guys are studying, these these on camera interviews that these guys have done. And he he I mean
he does he looks the part like you said, but he also carries the part real well and he's super
where Wayne Williams you could debate if he's an interesting guy but I feel like he made the character
interesting at least to me anyway. And so and same with um Albert Jones. So, I found he that's the
actor's name who played Jim Barney, the the he's like the FBI uh he's probably stationed at the FBI
Atlanta office and he's helping the guys when they fly in to work on the case, >> right? Yeah. I thought he did a great
job as well. He did a fantastic job and I'm hoping that they can like keep that character reoccurring in the
seasons going forward, you know, like if if they were to go back to Atlanta for any reason or be in that area.
Um cuz he was actually, of course, Jim Barney is a madeup name, but um the person that he's supposed to
be from real life, his name escapes me, but um uh he was an interesting agent that that Douglas talked about quite a
bit in in the book Mind Hunter. And the thing that shocked me was the whole forces of evil
killer that they they interviewed him in the prison and it was really short. Like
it wasn't even a big to-do. It was like maybe 10 minutes or whatever. And I thought that they would they would
make that into more of a story, maybe even to into a couple of episodes because in in the book, I can't remember
if they actually investigated the forces of evil or if it just was um because sometimes what he'll do is
he'll bring you up to speed on a case, but then but really he's just talking about them going to interview somebody.
But as the reader, it helps you so much more if you know the case if he can give
you a general um rundown of the of the case before he gets into the interview portion and why they asked certain
questions or or what they wanted to find out from that particular individual. >> Uh it looks like Christopher Livingston
>> has played Wayne Williams >> joined the cast as Wayne Williams. >> Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm on
IMDb and there's a huge list of it's like everybody that's been in season one and
two and the list is just I mean it's a lot of people. >> Yeah. I uh I almost actually
got Mine Hunter the audio book this week and I was going to listen to it. Um >> it's good. It won't take you very long
to uh it's one of those ones that once you get into it, it's hard to put it down and you'll you'll tear right
through it. Well, and they were kind of talking uh one of the sample clips was him talking about and and you kind of
see this in season one where uh he's, you know, he being Holden is really into the interviews and thinks
that they can learn a lot from him. And then in season two, he's going, "Okay, well, we learned enough from them." you
know, yeah, I'm sure there's more that we can learn, but we've learned enough and let's, you know, take this and put
this into practice. >> Uh, and almost that that he's bored with the interviews and one of the clips was
saying how he's like basic I mean, he named all the clips or all the cases that he was working at the time and it
was something ridiculous, you know, like 50 60ome cases. Then then he was saying that he was
doing basically no interviews, but everybody back at uh BSI was was heavily involved in interviews and and paperwork
and the psychology of everything. So that seems like that's kind of where we're at now in the story as far as
Netflix goes. And it will obviously continue to go that way in season 3. Well, I did see a
>> Well, I was going to say I did see a report that uh what's the director's name? Finch.
>> Fincher. >> Fincher. Yeah. Fincher said that if if everything goes to his plan, there's f
there's five seasons. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah. So, the um real quick here, something that I kind
of forgot about, which I think is like one of the biggest parts of the of season two,
was when when Ed Keer, you know, so Holden Ford is supposed to be like the, you know,
he's not only is he a know-it-all, but but they really hone that in on season too where he's kind of like, you know, I
I think I know everything about everything. And you know, I I'm I'm right is is kind of his his character.
And the thing that's interesting is it takes Ed Keer to point out to him, well, you know, you've only been
interviewing serial killers who got caught. You know, you've b you're making these profiles off of serial killers
that you know about and off of your interviews with serial killer killers, but they're only one. These are the only
ones that have got caught. If if if one comes along that's really good, that's smarter than you, Holden,
>> you won't catch them. And that's that's so interesting that they do that because
that in in turn when you kind of spin it back to BTK and how long his his um you know as long
as long as he evaded law enforcement and he's kind of the opposite of what Holden Ford would profile as a typical
serial killer. you know, he's he's out living a regular life. He has a family that it and he he's a
>> Well, yeah. And they mentioned that a lot in season two where it's like, well,
you know, these guys don't have time for families or they they can't stay normal
enough to be married, >> right? >> Um and we see that time and time again not to be true.
>> Yeah. And I think the the thing that you know you were talking about with the
interviews um I I think I think we're going to get back to more interviews in season three but I think
it was holding forward having the frustration of like look we're interviewing current the last couple
people we've interviewed have all been batshit crazy. We there's nothing we can learn from them. you know, they're they
don't make any sense in their interviews and they just kind of spew wild statements and weird things. Um, you
know, with like Manson and Forces of Evil and there was there was another guy in that kind of string of interviews
that you see holding forward like he's like we're wasting our time. There's nothing to learn from from from these
types. You know, there's there's stuff to learn from Ed Keer who can articulate what he was thinking and experiencing
and what he was doing where that's not going to be the case with all of them. >> Why do you think he was so fascinated
with Manson? Do you think it was just like the pop icon status of Manson? Yeah, I think there's a little fanboy in
um in Douglas with some of the serial killers. And I that's a weird term to use, but um I think well I I think they
showed that in season one when he was going to >> interview uh Richard Speck and he was
like, "Oh my god, we're going to you know, and and remember we have Bill Tench who's like, "What are you going to
ask him to sign your book?" you know, like he like he had a he had like a book about the case with him that he was
reading and um so I think they wanted to point that out that in some ways he is one he's fascinated by the serial
killer. So he's going to have he's going to have killers that he wants to interview more so than others. You know
what I mean? like and and I think >> Manson Manson for him was probably just not
only the the the pop icon, you know, he's in he's in all the papers, he was the biggest story of the 60s and and
then but on top of that, he's a different animal than some of these others where you're like, okay, he he
didn't actually use his hands to kill anybody. he directed this group of of uh wild young people to to carry out the
killings and he had this whole helter skelter race war that he wanted to start. So I mean significantly different
from Ed Keer who was you know driving around picking up co-eds and and essentially killing his mother over and
over and over and over and over again. >> Right. But and you also have to wonder
did did they fully believe the the Manson story in itself that he wasn't involved and and maybe here's a chance
that we can interview him and to know what happened and and maybe maybe he'll confess to actually being more involved
than he was. >> He didn't he didn't interview the Manson family. They didn't show them
interviewing Manson family in the season two, did they? Uh, they showed them. >> Did they interview Tex?
>> Yes. >> Tex Watson. Okay. Um, >> and did they interview the girls? >> Uh, I don't think they actually showed
if they did. >> Okay. Cuz see, I'd like to see that. I'd like to see them interview the girls in
season three. That's where I'm racking my brain. I'm like, well, who are they going to interview? And I think
based off of just reading the book that they're going to have to now they're kind of getting on the time
the time line where they're they're going to have to stray from the book big time because the
book is about over. You know what I mean? Like um there you know. So, where they leave us is we're we're what um
1981, you know, the Wayne Williams is arrested and um BTK isn't apprehended until 2005.
So, >> yeah, >> if there unless there's going to be like a big time jump here, they're going to go through
25 years in the next three seasons. [Music] Uh well I mean they didn't they have a lot
of involvement in like the uni bomber case Ted Kazinski >> I believe so. Yeah. >> And so that would be what 96.
>> Yeah. >> So >> with with a long investigation like years. So that could be maybe four season 4
possible, right? >> Then what is it in the So like you said, we're at 82. So >> well, and you're going to get I would
imagine you're going to get big portions of Holden's life and family eventually because we
got none of that in season two. You know, he had his girlfriend in season one. Nobody. He doesn't really seem to have
anything in season two. And we get a whole lot of of Bill Ten's family with the u you know with his son seeing the
the death of that kid. >> Yeah. Yeah. uh holding forward or Jonathan Gruff uh his he had an interview and I think I
talked about this before but his interview with uh Fresh Air Terry Gross it was it's just so crazy because you I
don't I didn't know anything about him. I don't I haven't seen him in anything else and to to know that he's a a part
of uh Hamilton was on the original soundtrack and to hear his like great singing voice and to find out that he's
been part of Broadway forever and you just you wonder how he got cast in this role. He's done such
a great job job in this role but you just wonder how those musicals led to here. Well, I love
when they when they go out and I mean when when you're taking this on. So, like you said, Finchure, if he
gets his way, he he wants to do sounds like he wants to do five seasons. And it sounds like he walked into this going,
"Okay, this is what this thing is. This is this is a story told throughout the course of five different seasons. It may
take seven, eight years to film all this and release it all." And I love when they go into something knowing that it's
going to be a big project and they're like, "Let's cast somebody. Let's cast kind of an sort of an unknown for the
the lead role or one of the lead roles." So that you know what I mean? Like you don't really go into it having seen
Jonathan Gruff in really anything at all. And >> Bill Tench character, he's, you know,
he's not a super famous actor, >> right? And so now you get to see them as it to me it just makes him Holden Ford
more so than if you would have seen him in a bazillion other things. And it it makes
>> Holton Maloney Mall I can't I don't know his Holt's last name. >> Yeah. Bill Tench.
It makes him Bill Tench. And like you seen he I remember him from some like action type movies. Um,
so, so he I mean he he looks the part for me, but um but yeah, like you said, he's not uh I don't remember him in any
major starring role that I can think of. >> I I liked a lot of the interplay between
the uh BSI. I think his his character's name is Greg Smith. uh actor's name, Joe
>> Tuttle. >> Tuttle. Joe Tuttle. And I I I think it's like there's these subtle scenes that I
actually like after the scene happened, I went back, you know, just like, "Oh, that was a pretty good scene, I thought
there was something interesting there." So, I just rewind it and and and watch that part again. And even though his
character is not a main character, there's this interplay happening. And I think like when he has the one interview
where he felt like he shed the bed a little bit, >> um then you start seeing him like really
take his certain things serious and then when they're in these, you know, now you have
this whole situation where his character Greg Smith is doing all this work inhouse, so is Wendy the doctor, and
then Holden's off doing whatever, not focusing on this new material. material. So,
it's almost like Holden's like, "Well, look, we created the term serial killer. We're good to go. Just, you know, we
don't need to learn anymore." And at this point, Wendy is learning a lot more. Greg is learning a lot more. So,
then you see these conflicts. And there's a couple times that uh the character Greg Smith kind of corrects
the group. Well, actually, this is what this means. I I don't know if you if you
noticed that, but I thought um >> you know, not a giant part, but here's an actor doing a killer job of his part.
That I think that's what makes this uh show so interesting is how many people are just knocking their their role out
of the park. >> Yeah. And I I like his character a lot, too. I mean, he was his character was,
you know, somewhat fun in in season one where he's, you know, he's in the passenger seat and he's telling hold for
it and he's like, "We're the goddamn FBI." Um, >> and and yeah, you're right. It's like
it's cool because you can see his he's evolving as a as an FBI agent and he's he's getting smarter and he's
learning from the stuff that the the work that the BSU has already done. He's learning that and he's applying it. And
yeah, like you said, we're we have Holden Ford wants to be in Atlanta. John Douglas wants to be in Atlanta. He wants
to help solve that case. He recognizes that. Yes, there is a serial killer at work. There might even be more than one.
And he also believes that law enforcement, what little work they are doing at the time to to work on the
cases, they they have the wrong idea and and if they pursue keep pursuing that thought and that theory, they may
never solve the thing. And so I think that's why I don't I don't know that he I don't know that he's like devaluing
the interviews. I just feel like he I I I think it's more of a time better well served. It could be locking somebody up.
Locking up this this child killer down in Atlanta. And yeah, they're they're going to continue the uh the interviews
and like you said, Tuttle's going to be well, that's not his name. Greg Smith is
going to be um part of those interviews and still continuing the work that they were already doing while they're off
hopefully solving this crime because if the FBI solves it, um then Director Gun, who took over for the for the other
guy, he's going to get the credit that he wants for because remember we learn in season two and he's talking
about how he turned down some other job to take this job. And at first my thought was that he did it because he he
like really truly believes in the in the science and the mechanics of this whole
BSU thing. And what I think is actually going on is that it's more of a more of a politics thing for him. more
of a this this might be taking this job instead if this goes right could be my fastest track to where I want to be. So
that's why I think his his character you get those moments throughout season 2 where you where you kind of like him
because you're like, "Oh, wow. He recognizes that that Holden Ford has talent. You know, he has these talents
that other agents may not possess." And so you like him in moments or I did because he he seems to be all in on this
whole uh behavioral science unit. Um, and but then you get these moments where he
feels a little slimy, and I think that's what the sliminess is. I think underneath that that um gung-ho
uh you know, cheering on on the these guys, Bill and and and Holden. I think the sliminess is the is the the
polit the politics of of this guy and and and that he is just he's just using this as a stepping stone. He doesn't he
he may put off the appearance that he truly cares and he loves it, but he doesn't. That's just a that's just an
act and underneath he's he's just worried about his own uh because we see that at the end where they're they're
getting on that private jet and he's kind of he's kind of slimy in that in that scene too which is
>> well essentially he's not it's not it's not a stepping stone in the sense of there's a lot of places higher to go
up. I mean, it's you're the head of Quanico. I mean, that's pretty high to be up, but what kind
>> There's plenty of plenty of places for him to go after that. >> Yeah. But I also think it's it's a
different situation, too, because if you guys are doing good work, more funding become comes your way. And so that's
what you see with like the private jet. See, see what happens when we do good things, then they go, "Hey, get these
guys a private jet." >> Right? you know what I mean? So there's um there's some stepping stones without
actually having to change positions. Um and and but also just I think that is a good interplay with the politics that
you see in Atlanta and how they actually have to try to solve the cases and how much
of this nonsense. I mean, just like the the flyers that they're trying to have made so they can, you know, interview
these people to, you know, of this benefit concert and have their own security guards and and it just never
happens because >> because they're, oh, well, we have to get that approved and this has to happen
and it's just all this constant malarkey that, you know, nobody's going to want to have to deal
with. So, I think it's kind of neat that it shows how politics and how just systems in
general get in the way from, you know, coming to the conclusion of justice at the end.
>> And >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you'll see that more in more in some cases than others, but it it's it's
interesting to see play out on on screen. >> Well, and it it really shows, too. Um,
you know, and the the characters even talk about this towards the end of season two, but it's like holding
forward learning that yeah, they can go and help and assist in these investigations, but they're they're
there in somebody else's jurisdiction and they're not really in control of the actual investigation even though they're
assisting. And you know, because when when Wayne Williams is arrested, it's almost like, you know, Holden Holden
doesn't know that he's going to be arrested right then and there. Um, and so it it's it's interesting to see that
and Holden learning, okay, this is how it is. This is how it's, you know, and Bill Ten's trying to tell him, you know,
it we're not in control of of a lot of this stuff. We can't control everything. We're just here to to help these people.
Um, do you want to give your uh do you have a top five of characters or actors or
>> Well, I can rattle >> we can rattle off a few here. Um, so it was of course good to see
it was good to see that Ed Keer was in season 2 even though it was just for a little bit, but he was such he was so
polarizing in season 1, excuse me, that it was great to have him back. So, um, >> yeah, go watch him eat a egg egg salad
sandwich. >> What's his name? Cameron Britain or something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh I would give him
number five. Uh mainly he'd be number one if he was in more episodes, but he I think he was only in what the first
episode of season 2. Um so he was great as always. The the Manson thing was interesting, but
um I don't know. I found so many other parts that I thought were were better. Um, and mainly because sometimes
parts to me are played better when when I don't have high expectations for a role or don't or unaware of a role even
existing going into it. But I really liked Albert Jones who played Jim Barney. So I would say him number four.
And I really liked um >> which one was Jimmy? Jim Barney. Jim Barney was the the field the FBI agent
in in the field office in in Atlanta. >> In Atlanta, right? The one that like they go they go to the uh wherever
they're stationed at first and there's nobody there and then next time they come back he's still there,
>> but now there's a million people there. Okay. >> And he's Yeah, he's he's working on the
investigation. And when Bill Tench is gone, he's kind of the guy that keeps Holden Ford kind of grounded. And
you know what? I'm going to give him, you know, I want to skip him for now because he was in so many episodes and
and played such a huge role in season two. I think he should be higher up on my list than number five. um that Sony
uh Valancenti that that plays the uh I love how a lot of websites still just list him as ADT serviceman, but we we
know he he is BTK. >> His character has got even more. >> That's going to be the twist though is
that this guy is not the BTK >> that somebody else somebody else is the BTK. >> So I give I love number four to Sony. I
love when um the BTK is printing stuff off at the library. >> Mhm. >> And and he's like, "That's my property."
And I'm like, >> "Yeah." >> Oh, yeah. Um >> well, remember he left a letter in one
of the library books for either the newspaper or for the police at some point in that whole BTK case.
So, I give Sunny Valancenti or if I'm I'm probably not saying his last name right, but I give him number four, BTK.
I'm with you. I liked Joe Tuttle a lot. Greg Smith, I liked his character a lot.
Um, so number three for him. Jonathan Gruff, of course, I mean, he's fantastic, but but he seems too obvious
to be on the on the list. I think Bill Tench's character expanded more. you got to see different layers of
>> Bill and he's just uh he's such the focal point, you know. >> Yeah. And the kid playing his son or his
adopted son, Brian, did real well. I don't I don't know that actor's name, but he he did real well. Like um I know
he doesn't have a lot of speaking parts, but >> but he did well in that. And but I'm
kind of getting unclear here, but I I would give my number one to um what was the gentleman's name that
you said played Wayne Williams? >> Oh, I have to go back. >> Christopher >> Christopher Livingston.
>> Yeah. And believe it or not, he's Yeah. Christopher Livingston. He's only in, according to this list,
he's only in three of the episodes, but I I mean, he did I thought he did a fantastic job.
>> Yeah. I love when they pull him over at on the bridge. >> He's just so nonchalant about everything.
>> Well, when he's got an answer for everything, too. Yeah. >> And that that's how Wayne Williams was
or is. It it's weird to me that uh well, I guess it's not weird, but it's interesting how some cases can
really grab your attention and and how certain perpetrators um will stick with you as opposed to
other ones and and how certain victims stick out to you as opposed to different ones. And um same way with like missing
person cases. Like some of them you might have no similarities to the person that went missing and but it's
just you're so wrapped up in the case. Um and Wayne Williams is kind of that way
where sometimes sometimes I look at the whole of of the Atlanta child murders and say, "Well, I don't think this is
one individual. I think it's you know 90ome percent one ind you know one individual and if that's Wayne Williams
I mean I am fascinated by the whole wanting to be a producer because I worked in that
you know industry so that time that they go and talk to the studio about oh yeah
Wayne used to bring like clients here like we had those guys we had those guys that were constantly looking for new
talent. Um, and and guys that had their their thing, you know, you you might have a guy that was looking for um the
next Snoop Dogg, next Eminem, and then you'd have another guy that knew that guy that he wasn't looking for any
rappers. He was looking for young female or or young male singers. >> Mhm. Um, most of them stayed away from
like the really young, most of it was like 16, 17 year old. Um um but to even to see that development,
you know, you go I mean it was just one of those things where it's like even if you got to really know the guy and you
knew that there they were a good person, the whole situation seemed a little strange, you know,
>> or the fact like you'd have a guy uh a really interesting producer and I won't say his name, but he he he
actually drove school buses and so the he would drive the school buses and then and because of that schedule he'd have
time to work with these artists. But if you just kind of like just got into the situation and you
never met the guy you'd be like this is kind of odd situation here, you know, like
>> why is he putting so much time and effort into uh these kids? and and he I think he did
want to help the kids, but I also think he just really loved the process of finding an artist, helping him write a
song and producing it and and just creating something. And then you see this uh you know Wayne Williams
situation where he's not even writing songs, >> right? >> He's just like and that
>> way Yeah. It's a way for him to get kids in his car. >> Yeah. But it made me want to dive in
more because I mean he did have a radio station. So I think I'm really interested in like narrative
and how people like paint the picture now. And it's like I I wonder if he'd had no songs at all
or if that was just the norm. you know, maybe he had one or two songs or like I would I want to know more about this
radio station, how he got it up and running, what did he do with it >> because at some point like they shut it
down, right? >> Um so a character that never really interested me much like things like that
like when they when they're in the recording studio and they're like, "Yeah, he didn't have songs." That
really kind of opened up a different door where I was like maybe this maybe he's a little more
interesting than I thought he was originally, which is weird cuz you think like maybe
if he had hundreds of songs he would be more interesting to me, but fact that he
had nothing, you know, or at least that's what they're reporting. He Wayne Williams is a guy that
he tells some interesting stories. I will say that. Um he's interesting to listen to just because the crazy wild
[ __ ] that comes out of his mouth. It it's almost like you want to look at him and go,
"How do you expect anybody to believe these lies? The these lies are so out there."
>> Yeah. No, nobody would, you know, like when when they were later able to prove
that he knew some of the victims, he came up with the story that the reason why he knew some of the victims was that
he was doing this um running some kind of training program for covert operatives,
>> right? where he, you know, like like he was training these these people to be
killers and he was funded by the government to to do it. And that's why part of the
reason why they had him arrested, the government wanted him arrested because um he was running some top secret stuff
and so they labeled him a child killer and stuck him behind bars. Like I mean he tells some some tales that are out
there. Um, >> well, and you see this I mean, you see this with all industries, but really
the the music industry is just it's such a I mean, you you played in a band. We played in bands together. I mean, you
you saw it. I mean, just with other bands, the amount of nonsense that people would talk, you know, about um
and then there would be like these like legends that, you know, somebody, you know, some band
was telling you, well, we were going to get signed and they were also looking at
Limp Biscuit or somebody like that, you know, >> and and however they tell the story, I
don't think they're necessarily like lying. I just once you really dive into the truth, it's a little bit different
than how it played out in their head, you know. >> So, it it's it definitely is an industry
that lends itself to, you know, you have to say it and you have to believe it before anybody else.
Uh, and even when you are something, um, most people won't believe that you're something. So, it lends itself to be
industry full of a lot of liars. So, again, it's like one of those things like chicken or the egg. Like was he
just like notorious for making up lies and [ __ ] like that beforehand and that's
how he got him into this line of work or did him, you know, Wayne Williams trying to become a
producer and trying to become like somebody important, did that cause him to start lying more, you know?
>> Um, but some of those guys, they become chronic liars and they just can't get
out of the cycle. Who was your favorite interview that they did in season two? >> Uh, I like uh Burkowitz and and Manson,
but that's because um and I couldn't tell because I I don't I don't know anything uh about
prosthetics or anything like that. But, uh, I've always really hated this thing where like we've made a lot of
things CGI that shouldn't be CGI. >> Mhm. >> And they probably could have, you know,
they probably could take some of these individuals and with CGI effects, make them look more like the real thing.
Um, but the fact that they're doing it old school with prosthetics, um, the B burkowits, I mean, if I didn't
look up images of him before I watched that episode, you know, then you notice, you know,
things that they got wrong. Um, but I mean, there's parts where it's like, are they talking to the real guy? And then
and is and is this like from 30 years ago? Um because Manson looks like Manson and Burkowitz
looks like Burkowitz. I mean I think they did a great job and those two and then also the Dean uh Coral um
uh what's the kid's name? Oh. Um, >> Henley. >> Yeah, Henley. Because we cover that
case. And so, just as they're talking about the case and talking about Dean Coral,
these, you know, we cover a case every week, so you kind of forget little things. But, it's just like at Crime Con
where somebody will bring up, hey, you covered this case. Oh, yeah. And then they start talking about it. And it's
almost like it opens up this whole doorway of information. >> Mhm. >> Then it comes flooding back to you and
like, "Oh yeah, okay. Now I remember it." But and so that that was kind of interesting as far as
my personal reaction once he started talking. It was like, "Oh my god." Yeah. And um
and you know obviously it's just a port portrayal of of this person but to kind of see
you know if that is more true to form that's one that would be interesting to know because obviously we have video
footage of Charles Manson and Burkowitz and I I don't think I've ever seen uh footage uh of Henley but
But, you know, it's kind of interesting to see how he interacts and just knowing
that case very well. So, >> yeah, he and actually I'm glad you brought him up because I kind of forgot
about I kind of forgot about him that yeah, that part was was good and super interesting as well. Um because that's
the that's the interview where where Greg Smith seems to feel like he he screwed
up, right? Like he wasn't up to snuff in that uh that interview because um >> No, it was before then.
>> It was before then. >> Yeah. And that I think that was the big difference is um
>> cuz I thought that was the one that Dr. Wendy Carr takes over the interview. >> Yeah, but I think there was another one
>> where he screwed up too. >> I think there was another one before that. I could
>> I think Burkowitz was my favorite interview of the of season two just because
>> he looked like him. >> He he he looked an awful lot like him, first of all. He talked like him, too.
And um and it was neat too because again it's you know some of the things that you know it always makes it more
interesting to see a dramatization of something that you're you you know some of the story of going into it like you
said with some of these investigations and the different um >> uh cases that we've covered. And
for him, like I knew some of the things that they were going to talk about in that interview, but it was neat to see
it actually play out and and how it carried out, how they kind of how Ford had to kind of rub his ego a little bit
and tell him like, "Hey, dude, you're famous." Like, you know, he's basically saying a hundred years from now, nobody
will know who I am, but everybody will know. Everybody will remember the son of Sam. you know, and he has to kind of
play to his ego a little bit to get him to to get him to open up because, you know, he he wants to know the the
details and to to get him to talk, he has to he has to play the game a little bit and it and it ends up working.
>> Now, I I can't pronounce her name. Anna, it's T O RV. Anna >> 12v >> uh she was on the Fringe which she
played a FBI agent on that as well. She's the doctor Dr. Wendy Carr. >> Uh which is funny is cuz everywhere it
says I'm always trying to figure out what Wendy's last name is. It's Carr. C A R R. Um
but I I really like her character in Mine Hunter. I like the fact that she plays such a strong uh female lead. Uh
and I think because again because there's so many parts of great acting in some of
them like look Charles Manson that's great. That scene is freaking amazing. >> Mhm.
>> And that's it. And maybe it wouldn't be as amazing if he had more parts or had
longer, you know, like longer screen time, right? Maybe you'd see some chinks in the armor. Uh, so I think then you
get like Jonathan Gruff, um, you know, Holton and Anna, um, being overshadowed by these
monumental figures that come in for about 15 minutes. But, uh, I don't think she should be overlooked as well. My my
quick rundown, I would I I'll go um I'll just go by character. Greg Smith, I'd give five,
I'd say. Uh um Ed Keer, four, Anna, three. Uh I don't know. That's tough cuz the
Atlanta FBI agent I like. Um but so yeah, that and Wayne Williams between, you know, a tide and then number one I'
I'd give to Bill uh because Bill's character is so uh essential to this season two story.
Um and I just think like there's like not a moment that he's not believable as that character.
Oliver Cooper, I guess, is the guy that played David Burkowitz. He's from Toledo, Ohio.
>> All right. Go Toledo. All right. Well, hopefully everybody enjoys their their Monday off. Uh if you
had the Monday off. I'm so used to being a banker that we get every holiday off >> and then some. Like even if you even if
somebody once thought there should be a holiday, they they give you that day off,
>> right? President's Day. >> Yeah. Bankers uh um we had a day off one time that had
no holiday, but somebody said, "Well, it's a bank holiday." I'm like, "But all holidays are bank holiday."
So yeah, and everybody's safe travels while you're going to your barbecues and whatnot.
[Music] [Applause]

MindHunter Season 2 /// Off The Record Episode: 71 Released: 9-2-2019 Nic and the Captain discuss: MindHunter Season 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com #truecrimepodcast #truecrime #crime #crimenews #news #truecrimegarage

Brief Summary

The episode discusses Mindhunter's characters, real-life serial killers, and the challenges of FBI investigations.

Key points

The Strange Egg Salad Sandwich Clip. A bizarre two-minute clip of Ed Keer eating a sandwich sparks conversation.
The Future of Mind Hunter. David Fincher hints at a five-season plan for the series, expanding its narrative scope.
Holden's Overconfidence. Holden Ford's arrogance is challenged when Ed Keer points out his limitations.
The Politics of Justice. Exploring how political systems hinder the pursuit of justice.
Wayne Williams' Fascinating Lies. A look into the bizarre tales told by Wayne Williams.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's like two minutes of him eating, you know, and it's like cut diagonally.

1:11WatchJul 28, 2025

Tension

45/ 100Some tension

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