Mysterious Death of Ellen Greenberg /// Part 2 | Forensic Files

n [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing thanks
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talk some true [Music] Crow when we left off yesterday there Captain we had already placed an
attorney James schwarzman in the apartment with the fiance Sam and we know that police are on the
scene of course the medical examiner has been requested and detectives are arriving on the scene and detectives are
getting there after James and camon schwarzman have already been allowed into the apartment which I find to be a
little troubling we've seen other situations where people enter a scene this to me is showing me right away that
we have a compromised scene we have a lack of professionalism I think when it comes to law enforcement in this case
yes because what's going to be Paramount to the investigation is simply figuring
out when did she die when were these wounds inflicted on her because if this was at the time when he was at the gym
then he's not your guy this is probably a suicide but what police find it's the where the question marks go in this case
start from me right here I mean we we have some things to call into question but a lot of that has to do with
personalities and relationship Dynamics these are question marks that are about the actual investigation now one thing
we do know is that the body's not removed for several hours okay that to me is always a good thing that allows
detectives to do what it is that they should be doing this allows for the scene to be properly processed I'm
always worried about a case when we find out that the body's been removed 45 minutes after everybody's on the scene
or it also complicates a scene when the person the victim is removed because you're giving life-saving efforts and
trying to rush them off to the hospital they don't have to do any of that here so you would think that our
investigation is starting off well what we have here is I'd like to go through Sam Goldberg's
statement but I before we get to that I want to get into what EMS what it's reported the EMS says that they observed
when entering the apartment and this was that Ellen was seated in the corner of the kitchen with coagulated blood
running horizontally from her nose to her ear and many suggesting that this positioning is indicative that she was
likely initially lying flat on the ground when she was stabbed again no neighbors are reporting any loud noises
or arguments or screams the only noises that they're reporting is Sam calling Ellen's name when it's believed he was
attempting to gain access to the apartment we do know from the 911 call that she likely was moved even if it's
just a centimeters but he is responding to her we know that per the 911 call because the dispatcher is at the early
part of the call encouraging to him to perform CPR it sounds like he's going to attempt to do that but then he discovers
that there's a knife sticking out of his fiance's chest to which the dispatcher then says that he will not be able to to
perform CPR this is another part of the case that I think you could spend hours dissecting and speculating about what we
don't have to speculate about is his statement to the police so here it goes he tells the officers who responded to
the 911 call that he had left the couple sixf floor apartment to visit their building's gym at approximately 4:45
p.m. he says proximately 45 minutes later he returned to the sixth floor but found the apartment door swing bar lock
engaged from the inside he returned to the building's Lobby to try to reach Ellen via cell phone calls and text when
approximately 1 hour had passed without a response Sam Goldberg said he decided to enter the apartment by force Sam
Goldberg stated that he returned to the sixth floor accompanied by a building security guard later identified as
Philip Hann and forced open the door once inside Mr Goldberg discovered the victim Seated on the kitchen floor with
her head slouched over Sam Goldberg recounted that he immediately called 911 in accordance with the emergency
operator's instructions Mr Goldberg lifted the victim's slouched head in order to perform
CPR at that moment Mr Goldberg discovered the knife lodged in the vi VI's chest Medics arrived and pronounced
the victim dead at 6:40 p.m. that's his statement to police what do we learn about the scene Ellen's body is found on
the hardwood kitchen floor located just inside the door entrance area she's found with her head and some of her
upper body her shoulders resting against the lower half of white kitchen cabinets
that are next to the cooking range her body starting with the head is facing north and the legs West she's wearing a
zip up dark colored shirt over top of a t-shirt gray sweatpants underwear and a light brown Ugg boots a pair of
eyeglasses are found on the floor to her right a white towel is in her left hand
there's a hair tie or scrunchie that is on her right wrist other than that there's no personal effects on the body
inside the apartment that it is noted that a strainer filled with blueberries and an orange that appears to be freshly
sliced rest on the counter two clean knives were in the sink so two clean knives kitchen knives are in the sink of
the kitchen we have a kitchen knife sticking out of the chest of our victim this is a knife that came from the
Butcher Block in the kitchen of this apartment from my understanding that butcher block had been either
moved from its original position like it was bumped or it was bumped and knocked
over yeah I think this information to me doesn't point to any answers it just points to more questions Ellen's body
was removed from the apartment at about 3 a.m. and she was removed so that an autopsy could be completed we do know
that James schwarzman the uncle of the fiance Sam's uncle called the apartment building's property manager requesting
access to the apartment this is the day after okay Melissa wear was the property
manager at the time she calls the police department because she's saying James schwarzman Sam's uncle is asking for
access to the apartment he wants to collect some of his nephew's personal belongings from the apartment the police
department told Melissa wear that it was isn't an active crime scene and therefore she could allow access to the
uncle of the apartment and this the information I found Captain goes as far to say that the police department gave
Melissa wear the property manager a phone number for a crime scene Cleanup Crew so not only is this not a crime
scene and you can grant access to somebody but oh here's here's a phone number for some people that come out and
they clean these things up so she calls the uncle and told him that yes he has access he's allowed on the premises and
can get into the apartment and he also re she relays the Philadelphia Police Department's recommendation of the crime
crime scene cleanup service to which the uncle says that that Sam Goldberg or Sam
Goldberg's family will pay for the service and so therefore the property manager made arrangements with the
service to come in and clean up so Arrangements were made for Crime Scene cleanup to clean up the apartment on
that same day the day after the death th that's horrible that is absolutely horrible if
I'm one of if I'm a detective there I'm telling even if the police chief has got
his head so far up his ass that he's allowing this to happen which I don't think it even this phone call from the
property manager don't didn't even reach these levels I hope that it did not get
to the level of a detective I hope that that was just a whoever was in charge of
answering the phones that day had a really dumb answer that's what I'm hoping here because if this reached any
ranking official or ranking officer or if there was a conversation behind closed doors of me and my boss I'm
telling the captain homicide Captain I'm telling the police chief whoever I have to talk to
give me one more day give me one more look at that apartment before we clean it up it even if you guys don't if you
think there's nothing here at least let me back in there one more time to make sure that this is what we think it is we
don't know who made that call but we do know that that didn't happen they didn't
get back in there this apartment was clean to me it's not so much about getting one last look it's give me a day
or so to go over the evidence that I collected to see if I need go back in it's just a safety net that's all it is
and so again like you said I think maybe this doesn't hit the detective's ears or
or maybe the chief of police's ears it doesn't hit hopefully it doesn't right yeah measure twice cut once is really
how I look at this thing I mean it this was not investigation that was completed
be it out of your police file back at the police station or your work inside that apartment it was not done at this
time there's no cleanup to be had at this time in our timeline so initially at first on January 27th it
sounds like the medical examiner was leaning toward or may have even classified the death as a homicide that
would ultimately be changed to suicide and what's strange here is very quickly it's like by day two there's a statement
from police the police spokesperson who says we've not yet determined if it's a homicide or a suicide but we're leaning
toward suicide now the autopsy findings we could spend three episodes on the autopsy to me I don't think that it's
necessary but here's what the findings were there's multiple stab wounds to the chest abdomen and the back of the neck
the stab wounds affected vital area including the aortic Arch left lung the cervical spine this indicates severe
trauma to essential organs and structures okay so that's that's why the person is
deceased the blade details are it it's 12.5 CM which is almost a 5 in Blade this was embedded in the wound
to the chest with a depth of 10 cm so that's almost 4 inches deep in the chest as said there's 20 stab wounds or knife
wounds to our victim here what we cannot say even if we review each one what we cannot say is the order in
which these wounds were created but there are 20 of them what we can say is we do know what the last one is because
the knife is still unfortunately in the victim there is notation in the this report the presence of multiple bruises
at different stages of resolution suggesting a pattern of physical altercations or abuse occurring over
time that's in the the initial the f I say initial autopsy because there had to be multiple autopsies conducted in this
case but in the very first one that is listed in the very first one the presence of multiple bruises at
different stages of resolution suggesting a pattern of physical altercations or AB abuse occurring over
time this could mean multiple things it could mean that somebody was physically abusing or victim it could mean our
victim is Clumsy or she's physically abusing herself or she's hurting herself self harm but to me that statement alone
is telling me as an investigator wait we can't come to a conclusion of suicide yet we
at the very least it's undetermined and therefore it warrants further investigation that's I mean that
is as plain and simple as it gets that is detective work 101 police work 101 that's what they teach you in the first
five minutes there's further investigation required here in the initial report do they talk anything
about strangulation no they do not one thing that I did find to be a bit strange though very early in this
investigation this is the on the same day so the day after we know the apartment was cleaned after the
apartment is clean the day after James schwarzman who was granted access to the apartment showed up and removed the suit
that he had told the property manager about but also removed Ellen's purse cell phone and laptop now the reason
that he claims that he took the laptop is that he also claims that he took his nephew's laptop and didn't know which
laptop belonged to who so he took both of them but still once you find out that a purse he knew he had the first didn't
belong to Sam well right and same with the cell phone and so my argument would be I don't know what was on her laptop I
don't I don't know if she had a certain kind of cover if was the laptop uh a color did she have stickers on it I mean
some people decorate their laptops so so that that's something I'd like to know because if there's a clear difference
between the two I I think it doesn't make any sense to have to have taken both laptops exactly okay so let's
pretend for a minute he Sam who now if you're acting on his behalf you're he's your client at this point whether he's
paid you a a penny or not but he essentially is your client at this point if your client requests that you go to
the premises and remove these items to bring to him and the police are not denying you access that seems all well
and good and and it could be simply him saying look my fiance just died in that apartment I don't know if I'll ever go
back but I it's not just died she she killed herself yeah in a in a very violent way too right and so I'm maybe
he maybe this is a conversation that they had and these are items that I need could you go and just collect anything
that looks important cuz I don't know if I'm ever going back there that could be
the conversation but but the the problem with this becomes from my understanding
the police have this is where the police mucked this thing up and and the attorney mucks it up even more but the
police allowed the attorney to muck it up even more because your investigation hasn't even started yet when you've not
determined the manner of death that from my understanding this has not even been
determined yet so therefore we cannot say that it should not be a homicide investigation it should be always be
treated as a homicide until you can prove that it's not in every situation and if it's a homicide and I'm a
detective what do I want I want access to her computer I want access to his computer I want access to her phone I
want access to his phone exactly and then here's another complicated this becomes a very gray area right if James
schwarzman is now acting on behalf of his client's best interest at this point in our
timeline if you don't have a determination if you are not investigating it as a homicide then
guess what is what I believe that you could probably get away with because James schwarzman is an officer of the
Court any officer of the Court will know that you cannot illegally you cannot tamper with evidence and all of this
stuff should be evidence at this point he cannot do that as an officer of the Court nor should a civilian either but
where it becomes a gray area that maybe you can get away with it is no the police said this is not a crime scene so
I can collect these things because nobody can come back on me later saying that I was tampering with evidence
because if it's not a crime scene this [ __ ] ain't evidence right there were a few things
so what happens here there is a search warrant that is issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and and I
believe that it is executed on January 27th so this is the day after they are searching for the following items and
removing searched and seized the following items here's what's here's what a pisser right here Captain this
whole case is a pisser yeah but if if you're you have to file for the search warrant it has to be signed off on and
granted permission right even though you're the police you still have to get the search warrant and that's where you
see them doing their due diligence but if I'm a judge and I'm signing off on it I want to know well why do you need to
search and seize items from this particular property well they have to tell the the judge the purpose is
related to the investigation of a homicide by a cutting instrument involving Ellen Greenberg or victim if
that's your description on the search warrant to the judge that means you should this is a crime scene nobody's
allowed in here you just said the word homicide in your paperwork filing with the judge all right sorry I'm getting
too worked up here the items that were searched and seized assorted knives blood samples a Ser serrated knife with
a black handle assorted paint samples a bloody hand towel found in the kitchen assorted clothing blood samples a
diamond ring latent prints and a rubber made container like a big tupperware container I do want to point out when
you were talking about the injuries we don't have any injuries to our hands that look like defensive wounds do we
correct and so this would be suggesting that she wasn't fighting anybody off that she she didn't need to now before
we get to the 29th of January let's let's go through briefly these wounds and better describe them to people that
don't know this case so the majority of these wounds or at least 10 of them were
to the back portion of her body like the back of her neck the top of her head the
back of her head right there's a lot of wounds there so this is for a lack of a better term it's it's a steak knife to
me it looks more like a like a large pairing knife that's serrated and it's believed that this knife made all 20 of
these wounds now there's varying depths of the stab wounds and of the cuts there's varying lengths of the of the
cut to the body but to put it plain and simple 10 of these AB wounds are not where you would anticipate finding on a
a person who committed suicide 10 of them are to the back of her the back of her neck the back of her
head in fact to be honest with you Captain when looking at the autopsy and go to Crime time lines.com they have
photos there autopsy photos from looking at it I would make the assumption that that large injury to the large wound to
the back of her head that to me almost looked like like she was pushed and hit her head real hard and it split open
that's what it looked like to me but we're being told that that was in fact a stabo yeah but
look we can agree they didn't do a good job with the autopsies right let's the problem with all these medical
examinations are when we have multiple doctors look if there are even doctors whatever their certification
is that we get varying reports so it's not unreasonable to think that maybe she got this like you said being pushed into
an item or maybe there's some sort of blunt force trauma but I bring up the no defensive wounds because that could also
occur there'd be no defensive wounds if you kill yourself but there would also be no defensive wounds if somebody
attacks you from behind but also multiple bruises at different stages of resolution suggesting a pattern of
physical altercations or abuse occurring over time right while that statement is
true a portion of that true statement is multiple bruises at differing different
stages of resolution meaning that some of those bruises could be fresh so I had a real hard time when reviewing the
different autopsies and their findings because they don't completely match one another and two this is a statement that
gives me pause if you're telling me that they she does have bruising at different
stages of resolution who but yet you can confirm there's no defensive wounds that's that seems like both of those
things cannot be true like it seems possible to me that some of those bruises might have been defensive wounds
they just are more fresh bruises [Music] [Applause] [Music] all right we are back welcome back to
the madness talk hands in the air cheers to you Colonel cheers to you captain on
January 29th 2011 this is just days after the mysterious death is the best way to put it
of Ellen Greenberg police released a statement a police spokesperson said that despite the homicide ruling
authorities were leaning toward suicide in Ellen's case and looking into quote mental issues end quote she might have
had Lieutenant Raymond Evers emphasized that the case is still wide open but he said he wanted to assure residents of
the area that there wasn't quote a maniac on the loose I don't know why I just hate it cuz if you don't know if
you're not 100% sure of what happens right or what happened in I say anything at all why say anything at all yeah and
and again it's it's is it stupidity or is it arrogance yeah I think that they're they're being pressed to say
something and so yeah you you do say something you owe that to the public that's who you work for that's who
you're in charge of keeping safe but I don't know that you have to go into great detail or or go this far I I
would simply be stating we're still looking into what happened anytime you have an unsolved case that may be a
homicide yeah people should be on high alert help people should be on on alert just in their everyday lives anyway yeah
I was posed the question the other day are people becoming more crazy or are we just hearing about it more often we're
definitely hearing about about it more often and there's more of us today than there were before and guess what my
friend we're part of the problem yeah so we here's what we learned in April the laptop forensics comes back on Ellen's
computer so this is regional computer forensics laboratory turned over their findings to the PPD uh April 1st of 2011
which revealed a search history much of it we've already discussed on Ellen's computer between December 18th and
January 10th that included Search terms such as suicide methods quick suicide and painless
suicide on April 15 2011 the medical examiner office investigation report was revised to reflect that when the fiance
forced entry into the apartment an apartment Security man was reportedly present during this entry ultimately
this is the ruling has changed to Suicide unbeknownst to her family from the way that I understand this Captain
is that her death certificate was kind of quietly updated or quietly revised like they didn't go out of their way to
notify a bunch of people that hey this is this is now our finding so it sounds to me like a lot of this determination
may have a cause and effect here of well we found somebody searching these terms
on her computer Within in five weeks six weeks of her her death right we also have this report that the fiance wasn't
alone when he forced entry into the apartment but we now know that that's not correct right wherever they got that
information even if it just came from Sam Goldberg because remember we went through his statement to the police
which says that the security person Personnel escorted me they they were with me when I went back up to the sixth
floor and busted down the door now I keep saying that but it didn't really he bust into the apartment and the way that
it looks to me is he the door didn't get ripped off of the hinges it was the lock
mechanism simply broke off of the door again this case just lends itself to something that might be evidence just
lends itself to more questioning like we have these searches on her computer but
we don't know who made the searches I don't think we have a location of where these searches took place if they took
place on her computer inside that apartment Sam could have made these searches just as easy as she could have
she also could have made the searches and didn't take her own life correct but what he can't fake in all this is the
communication that she's having with friends and family right about the troubles that she is facing and I think
her mental issue that was going on Captain if you'll bear with me I'm going to try to deliver this
next bit of information as succinctly as possible and kind of a a concise manner
because what we're going to see in this case is we're going to see her family fight for her to get a proper
determination of why their daughter is dead but this fight will take years it will take years and we he
unfortunately get a lot of requests from family members who have lost someone a lot of those requests include people
that died from an overdose or a drowning or fill in the blank but it was not ruled a homicide and the sad
conversation that we have to have with those individuals is we would like to present your case we would like to take
it on we can only present so many of these cases where you don't agree with the findings of the medical examiner or
the police because there's so many open homicides and cold cases out there right
now that our schedule's full and one of the most difficult things to get is to get that ruling
overturned and look it's very rare I've only seen one situation that is investigated by the police department as
a homicide where the medical examiner ruled at natural causes I've only seen one case out of the thousands that I've
looked at you know over these years with this Obsession of True Crime we have a sickness what we have here is
the family one of their initial things that they're going to try to fight this ruling is to say look let's bring in an
expert let's have our own expert take a look and sirel wet who is a renowned forensic pathologist Dr C W took a look
at the report but this wouldn't be until January of 2012 his report says that everything he reviewed is strongly
suspicious of homicide in fact he would later go on to say on record but not in this report that he couldn't figure out
how they arrived at the conclusion of suicide at all then we have Dr Henry Lee PhD who issued a report stating the
number of wounds and the type of wounds and the blood stain patterns are consistent with a homicide so Henry
Lee's only reviewing pictures of the scene and the documentation of the autopsy but I think I think any
level-headed person would say 20 stab wounds while not impossible seems very highly unlikely that somebody would do
that level of damage to themselves before expiring or before not possessing the physical ability to continue to harm
yourself and then many people would say that the 10 wounds to the back of our victim here is highly suggestive that
she didn't inflict those wounds on herself now we went through the we went through the specs of the knife itself
right so you have almost a 5in blade you're going to have a handle that handle is roughly about the same size as
the blade so you only need five inches between your fist the bottom of your fist or the top of your fist to hit
yourself in the back of the neck or the back of your head with that knife so I want to point out something while while
I think that a lot of people have spent a lot of time reviewing each and every one of these wounds I don't find it to
be necessary because I I can physically make that motion to myself with either hand and successfully hit the mark what
I think the best statement to label these wounds is not probable that it's suicide but it doesn't have to be murder
because physically an able-body person of her age can can make that motion can bend that way it's possible it's un it's
unnatural it's awkward but I not only can I do it with one with my right hand my or my left hand I could do it with
both so because there are a lot of people that say that the the wounds after you
review them are suggesting that they're coming from different angles and from different sides that that one would have
to be switching hands throughout and my push back on that Captain would be no I could put the knife in both of my hands
together holding with both of my hands and physically reach all of these marks I see what you're saying I think the
difficulty becomes when she doesn't have I I believe there's like no blood evidence on her left hand so if she
could reach these by using multiple hands there I I don't think there's any evidence that she used multiple hands
and you were right Captain it's in one of these later autopsies that the examiner is suggesting that there maybe
indication of strangulation I was a little fuzzy on that detail because it it sounded like
it was some kind of bruising of the muscle the neck muscle and it made have only been as big as a thumbnail or a
fingernail so I'm a little unclear on on the I don't I to me it sounded more like
speculation rather than a right a proper claim yeah I agree there too but I think
again this this case just LS itself to whatever you learn you just have more questions like what medication was she
on at the time what doses what were the doses what medications were she was she what medication was she prescribed
by her doctors was she taking that medication was she abusing that medication are any of the side effects
do they lend themselves to make this more probable and I know a lot of people there's many points of this you know
they they talk about the the the orange freshly cut orange it didn't look freshly cut to me I the picture I
reviewed that didn't look like freshly cut to me but but but even so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that
she's cutting this orange and she's been thinking about hurting herself or taking
herself out of this world and decides right then in there Now's the Time that's not out of the realm of
possibilities there's I had a detective tell me one time that did you know a lot of men that
commit suicide will get their haircut that day now is it did they get their haircut so they look better when people
find them or is it just evidence of that a lot of these things take place on a normal
day well that and to not we I don't want to analyze this too much because it should be understood that there are
people that plan to take their own lives and they go to great LS to to carry out
their plans and make arrangements and such even if it's something as simple as looking good with a fresh haircut and
then there are other people who struggle and impulsively will take their own life
and mixture of both exactly so I don't know that so to me there yes I I would I would ex expect
to find some signs like a pre-existing condition if you will which we do see some of that we whether she
committed you know whether she's searching these terms on her computer or not we do know that her family is
expressing concern about her to the point where her family tells her go see somebody go see a professional and we
know that she's communicating with her mom that she's taking her meds and so that is that is fact right there we know
that that happened now the thing that gets real tricky here is both can be true in both scenarios may maybe she
filled up because some people go well she filled up her gas tank well she sliced up an
orange well I'm sorry I wish I could sit here and tell you that there's never been a person
before in the history of of man that filled up their gas tank and then went home and killed themselves I wish I
could tell you that that's never ever happened before therefore it will never it's not a possibility no that stuff
happens unfortunately some people cut up some fruit that happens the problem though is this investigation wasn't
handled properly and therefore every bit of evidence if you will gets really difficult for us to
examine because it's all tainted by this point now if the investigation was conducted properly a lot of these
missteps made by other people would wouldn't have happen Okay so you watched the OJ Simpson Netflix thing right we we
both said we were going to watch it and yeah later you said you would give us a ruling on two thumbs up one thumb up I
give it three thumbs up I thought it was awesome it was a great documentary one of the best but one thing that was so
aggravating about it I thought it was great as well so you you have the full backing of True Crime Garage on that on
the new OJ Netflix one thing that the documentary highlighted and I don't know that this
stood out for everyone but it certainly stood out for me was they're going through and they're like look at all
this additional blood evidence that was never presented at trial and you're like
well [ __ ] I thought he did it before now with all this additional blood evidence
that they found all over the place he absolutely did it yeah well you hear that there's a mountain of evidence and
then like you said there's a whole another mountain of evidence that's not even presented not collect
properly so they can present it at trial so then you go well there's a mount kilimajaro of evidence in the OJ case I
sat there and got very angered watching it going well why didn't they what a bunch of idiots they should have
presented this additional evidence at trial and then you find out well there was a problem somewhere along the way
where it was either evidence that wasn't collected or they question how it was collected or it wasn't photographed and
then you have four detectives that were all at the scene and they're all saying some they're saying different things one
detective saying it's in my notes and the other detective saying well that doesn't do us any good you didn't
communicate those notes to us so your notes never made it to our notes right and then you say well this wasn't
photographed I don't know why it wasn't photographed I I saw it and put it in my
notes well you didn't tell anybody to photograph it and that's what I think happened here I don't understand how you
get at least four detectives I I think there might have been five or six at all on the scene at one time inside the
apartment how the hell one of them didn't go wait we got to work this as a homicide until it's not befuddles me the
other thing that that completely makes me rip my hair out is if I'm a detective at the scene I'm looking at at the other
detective and I'm saying hey do you want to do this or do you want me to do it one of us needs to go to an unoccupied
unit and see if we can close the door and lock it from the outside one of us needs to go and see if we can make that
lock lock itself or use some kind of tool or screwdriver or whatever to set it up so that I can lock it from the
outside because you had mentioned him being on the phone and that might be trying to establish an alibi his Alibi
is the door being locked in the belief that it can only be locked from the inside because if that is true if we can
say that 1,000 times and feel 100% confident about it each of those times we say it if that door can only
physically be locked from the inside and there's no other way in and out of this
apartment then she had to kill her kill herself and I think that that is because
the investigation wasn't conducted properly then you see a domino effect where the autopsies weren't conducted
appropriately you see where they add to the report stating that a security Personnel was present with Sam Goldberg
when he forced his way into the apartment they add that to their ruling that it's a suicide so they must have
believed the same well you could only lock it from the inside therefore that is proof that he didn't kill her that
she killed herself because he had somebody present with him when he busted open the door what do I mean by that
things if he killed her and then went to the gym and that door was locked then he
had to figure out a way to lock it behind him yeah it's actually not that hard to do if you have a string or even
a shoelace well what I mean by that is he is I like to I like to look at people's actions what are they doing and
who is the one that's try propelling these actions into willing them into existence right one thing he is doing
whether he's innocent or guilty is he's trying to get the security person to come up with him to bust down the door
we right we know that he's trying to do that now he could be doing that because he's concerned about his fiance and he's
worried what's going on inside the apartment or he could want the security person to go up there with him because
it will look a lot better if I'm not the one that discovers the body it would look a lot better if there's somebody
here to confirm that that door was locked because many people believe it can only be locked
from the inside that lock is his Alibi he couldn't get that security person to go up there with him right and so he
bust the door by himself what I'm what I'm saying is yes he could stage the scene but he would have to be able to
successfully stage the scene with that door locked because that's his Alibi if I'm a detective that's the first thing I
want to figure out detective b c D who who wants to do this one of you guys want to do it or you want me to go
go to unoccupied unit and spend 15 20 minutes and see if I can figure figure out locking it without being inside I've
not actually attempted there was part of me Captain want I wanted to go to a hotel and find a similar lock but then I
was like well if I successfully do it if they have to damage the door to get in I'm G have to pay for that door I think
I I'm looking at that picture I think that I could figure out a way to Jimmy rig it and get it to close get it to
lock well I've done it before like I said with a a shoelace because once you get the door once you get the were you
able to remove the shoelace after locking it yeah because basically the the the shoelace will go around the
latch on both sides once it's on the handle then you can just pull the shoelace through by either side well no
but wouldn't you have to do that after re-entering the door that you just locked meaning could you remove the
shoelace while the door was still locked and I'm asking that question because well no because the thing is when you go
to open up the door right you go to open up the door and the latch is on it allows you to
open the door just a little bit and that would be enough to pull the shoelace through head head on down to the gym
okay so your answer is yes you can remove the is lace while the door is still locked because it's still
technically locked and I'm asking that because of this situation if he were able to figure out how to do that how to
lock that door from the outside and you just suggested a way he would also have to be able to successfully remove
whatever it is that he used to implement that so that when the security person is
with him it's not obvious to anybody that it was locked from the outside again his Alibi is the lock right so if
he did kill her how did he stage it and how did he successfully stage it so well
is is a question that you have to answer because regardless of of what took place
I believe that door was locked I believe it was locked in the manner that he said
it was and I believe that simply because guilty or innocent if he's innocent she
locked the door that's easy if he's guilty he at least tried hard enough to get somebody to be present he wanted it
to be known he wanted it to be witnessed that he had a bust in the door and that
it was in fact locked you can't get the security guard to come up with you when you have to knock down the door so you
can't get him to be present when you find her dead in the apartment so what do you do you call somebody so
somebody's then present with you on the phone seems a little fishy couple of items that we should mention here are
some of these wounds so the Ellen's spinal Dora was punctured meaning that she should have been incapacitated before
she could have inflicted additional stab wounds all right now I want to touch on
this a little bit because there there were forensics that came out that said her basically her spinal cord was
damaged and if that were true from the stab wounds that she would wouldn't be able to to continue to inflict
additional stab wounds after this she would have been incapacitated again we don't know the
order of the stab wounds regardless of where you read them they're listed differently nobody knows what order
except for the last one we know the last one was the one in her chest however if
this statement is true then she wouldn't have even been able to inflict that very
last one leaving the knife in in her chest I say if this statement is true because at this point in the
investigation and in my investigation the best we could do from 30,000 ft I'm reading these autopsies and I'm going I
don't know how much I weight I can put in any one particular finding because they're it's not found in the other
autopsy so there are statements that say yes there was damage but she may not have been incapacitated the other
problem I have too is there's there was another medical finding that one of the wounds was inflicted postmortem and this
is easy usually pretty easy easy to determine because there's the blood flow has stopped at this point so if somebody
if somebody put the knife in her one more time or more than once after she de she's dead well she didn't kill herself
then that's a homicide the the problem then I thought when finding that at first Captain I would be like well this
is easy if one of the wounds at least one was committed postmortem then this is an open and shut case this is a
homicide and the only one with the means and opportunity is probably the boyfriend the fiance so this at first
glance I'm reading the information I'm going through and I'm like I don't understand the Public's fascination with
this case because it's right here in front of us there's no question but the more I got to thinking about it is
they've paved their own Road here they've made their own bed and from what my eyes can see about that road and
about the bed that they've made we cannot trust the autopsy findings in this case so I cannot sit here and feel
incredibly confident about that statement that one of the wounds was postmortem and here's why I would want
to know what I expect as a medical examiner wound a and wound B to be noticeably different right one
postmortem wound one that is not would I expect those to look noticeably different to me because what we do know
is the the knife was found in her chest he didn't remove it when he was on the phone with
911 what with leaving the knife in what what does that do to the body right does that does that stop blood
flow would you expect to see blood flow and then there was none so it was postmortem that that's the I think think
there's additional information that needs to be had here and what wound was it which of the 20 was the postmortem
wound was it the knife sticking out of her chest or was it a different one that all plays a big role here and I think
that that's something that we're going to figure out one thing that we have figured out is Philip hon the security
Personnel he says I didn't go up there with him and we now know based off of surveillance footage that we see footage
a still image of s Goldberg in the elevator going up to the sixth floor by himself there's nobody there with him he
gets off of the elevator and eventually breaks into the apartment so his statement to police that somebody was
with him when he broke into the apartment is not correct that didn't happen not the way he
[Music] described in my opinion the more evidence you have in this case the more
questions you have if you want to stick around and listen to the colonel and the
captain rant their faces off in part three and join us back here in the garage until then be good be kind and
don't wor [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Mysterious Death of Ellen Greenberg /// Part 2

Episode: 824

Part 2 of 3

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This week we join in the ongoing discussions being had across the nation about the perplexing Ellen Greenberg case. Ellen died after sustaining twenty knife wounds. Surprisingly her death was ruled a suicide. But her parents, Josh and Sandee did not agree with the ruling and so they fought for their daughter. The Greenberg’s went on a litigation battle against the Philadelphia Medical Examiner’s office and have been fighting for their daughter for fourteen years. What really happened in that apartment?

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Brief Summary

Ellen Greenberg's death is ruled a suicide despite evidence suggesting homicide, raising concerns about the investigation's integrity.

Key points

Introduction to True Crime Garage. Hosts Nick and the captain welcome listeners and discuss their beer of the day.
Investigation Compromised. Concerns arise as an attorney enters the crime scene before police arrive.
Murder Weapon Details. The knife found in the victim's chest is traced back to the kitchen.
Cleanup Controversy. The property manager allows access to the apartment for cleanup, raising alarms.
Need for Further Investigation. The initial findings suggest more questions than answers about the victim's death.
Conflicting Autopsy Findings. The autopsy results raise questions about the nature of the injuries.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is showing me right away that we have a compromised scene.

Discussion about the investigation's professionalism.

3:37WatchFeb 26, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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