Mysterious Death of Ellen Greenberg /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

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the mailing list and Colonel that is enough of the be all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
let's talk some true cry I need a now I just I just walk into my AP my G's on the floor with blood everywhere what
is the address 4601 Flat Rock Road please come help1 flat Flat Rock Road is this a
house or apartment oh no oh no it's an apartment please hurry please where she bleeding from I don't know I can't tell
she's so you have to calm yourself down in order to get you some help I'm sorry I'm sorry she I don't know I'm looking
at her right now she I don't I can't see anything she didn't there's nothing broken she's
bleed Ellie you don't know where she's bleeding from can's coming from it's I think her head I think she hit her head
I think but it's everywhere it's everywhere she might have fallen do you know what happened she she may have
slipped there's blood on the on the table her her face is a little purple okay hold on for rescue for her stay on
the phone my like I just my I went downstairs go work out I came back up the door was latched my fiance is inside
she wasn't she wasn't answering so after about a half hour I decided to break it
down I see her now just on the floor blood she's not she's not responding okay is she
breathing I look at her chest I need you to calm down and I need you to look at her chest it's really I don't think she
I really don't think she is listen to me someone's on the way look at her chest is she flat on her back she's on her
back so I bring look at her chest and tell me if it's going up and down up and down I don't see her moving okay do you
know how to do CPR I don't okay I can tell you what to do okay until they get there I want you to keep her oh God
hello yeah hi okay willing to do CPR with me over the phone till they I I have to right okay so get her flat on
her back bear her chest okay you want to rip her shirt off okay heel down by her
side oh my God Ellie please listen listen you can't freak out sir cuz you okay I'm try not I'm try not
her shirt won't come off it's a zipper oh my God she stabbed herself where she fell in a knife oh no her knife's
sticking out her what there's a knife sticking out of her heart oh she stabbed herself I can't I guess so I don't know
where she fell on it I don't know okay well don't touch it okay so I'm just I just let her here now I mean what do I
do no I mean you can't if the knife is in her chest it's going to be kind of hard for you to do CPR at this time oh
no oh my goodness Okay police operator 277 is someone coming here yes they are you said 4601 Flat Rock right yes okay
someone's on the way and the knife is still inside your what the knife is still inside of her yes I didn't take it out
is it her chest or what area is it's in her chest it's like it looks like it's it looks like it's right in her
heart okay someone's on the way out there okay just get oh my God oh my God how old is she she's 27 27 there's no
sign of life at all under her arm no please don't be what vent her under her arm and tell me
if she responds to pain she's Ellie she not she's not her arm her hands are still warm I don't know what
that means but there's blood every I mean I know but you can't and the knif is still inside of her how far can you
see how far it went in it looks pretty deep okay it looks straight and it's a long knife don't touch anything yeah
don't touch anything okay I'm not touching anything I can't believe this though wait it was
just you there with her we yeah we're the only ones here and she ran in the door you said L is shut
no no I I I went downstairs to work out and I when I came back up the door was latched like it was you know it wasn't
like it you know it was like locked from the inside and I'm yelling and so I was yelling brok into
no no no no no so there no sign of a Breakin no no sign of a Breakin at all I mean there will be when you get here cuz
I had to break the latch but to get in okay [Music] 461 well you heard it there folks a
strange and bizarre 911 call to say the very least but this case that we have on tap for you in
the garage today is an intriguing one with some twist and some turns and frankly some surprising findings and
conclusions along the way we have 27-year-old Ellen Ray Greenberg whose mysterious and tragic death on January
26 2011 this has led her parents down a long and troubling Road filled with opposition and legal battles simp simply
to determine correctly the manner of Ellen's death was it suicide was it a homicide or should the death have been
ruled undetermined listen to the facts of the case and decide for yourself on that day January 26 2011 a blizzard hit
Philadelphia Philadelphia received almost 15 Ines of snow by the time the storm was over many of the
municipalities declared snow emergencies 27-year-old Ellen Ray Greenberg was a school teacher so she had to leave work
that day to return to her apartment the school closed down that evening Ellen was pronounced dead as a result of 20
stab wounds including 10 to her back and neck there were more than three dozen accidents during the morning of the 26
that's traffic accidents due to the Blizzard due to the snow Philadelphia International Airport had 41 morning
flights cancelled and it had an average delay of 3 hours from my understanding here Captain the first surge of snow on
the morning of the 26th many of the school districts had to make last minute decisions to either close or have
delayed openings but many closed early that afternoon and we know that Ellen went to work that day the school closed
early that day and she had to go home we will go through that day in great detail
but first let's go through some background information Ellen Greenberg was born June 23rd 1983 in New York City
to parents Josh and Sandy Greenberg the greenbergs themselves the parents they met on a blind date in New York City in
1978 and they also lived in northern New Jersey Josh was a periodontist about their daughter says
mother Sandy Greenberg Ellen she was a really fun adorable very loving bubbly young woman with a bright future ahead
of her she loved life and was very positive and upbeat she was competitive giving her best from the softball field
to the golf course and here's a quote that's going to get you right in the heart Ellen had a great smile says her
father Josh Greenberg quote not a big smile she had a great smile end quote in 1994 the family moved to the Harrisburg
area where where Sandy is from Ellen was in Middle School back then attending sahana Township Schools this is Suburban
Harrisburg Pennsylvania Harrisburg is the capital city of Pennsylvania with a population of over 50,000 people in 2020
after graduating high school Ellen attended Penn State University where she worked as a lionizer introducing
athletes and their parents to the campus and even helped out on the football field I've seen these people in action
from being a person that held season tickets to Ohio State Buckeye football for many years and I never knew what
those persons were called that that walked the athletes around and you could see them at different Events maybe
showing them the stadium or walking their parents through the stadium or walking them around campus for the first
time that was one of the jobs that she held during her time at Penn State she graduated from Penn State with a degree
in Communications and after that she decided to attend Temple University taking night classes to earn teaching
credentials after which she became a first grade teacher at Wanita Park Academy in Philadelphia she loved Penn
State and loved Penn State football is what everybody says here Captain a big part of the story as we know from the
911 call is Sam Goldberg who was Ellen's fiance at the time of her death the two of them met in
2007 through a mutual friend and then in the summer of 2010 this is after three years of dating Sam proposed to Ellen on
the beach during a trip to the great state of California she says yes and after getting engaged Ellen Greenberg
and Sam Goldberg moved to a apartment on the sixth floor over the skull kill River in Philadelphia
this is the Venice loft apartments and it's located at 4601 Flat Rock Road they are Unit 603 located on the sixth floor
of the building the wedding is scheduled for August of 2011 now in the winter of 2010 Ellen's
parents and some of her friends they say that this is when they noticed a significant change in her
behavior we heard how her mother described her her we heard how her father described Ellen and so she was
always this cheerful composed person but they say around this time she became increasingly anxious and
very stressed and when questioned about this about these changes people voed their concern ask her what's going on
Ellen attributed a lot of her anxiety to work pressures did cite that there was stress coming from planning the wedding
but it seems like everything's going right and right on schedule she goes to a great University she gets a good
education she gets a good job she finds her man her man proposes this is setting up to get
married and probably start a family within the next few years she's right on schedule so it's a little odd to me that
she feels so stressed or that there was some kind of change in her personal ity or maybe her Outlook towards life in
December of 2010 her anxiety reached a point where she even expressed a desire to quit her job and to move back home
with her parents and one particular text that stands out her parents say that she
texts them quote I want to leave this place get me out which I find strange because it's one thing to say hey this
job is stressful I need to leave my job but to move home when you're already roommates with your future husband why
would you want to leave that situation that to me is some kind of foreshadowing or some indication that not just her job
is stressful but maybe this relationship is stressful as well the phrase I want to leave this place is very troubling to
me because it could mean any number of scenarios it could mean her job it could mean her relationship places oftenly
is often times used as an abbreviation for any number of things right it could it could simply be they moved into this
apartment complex and she hates this apartment complex I want to leave this place and then if you want to take it to
the extreme you wonder and you worry does she mean this world her life I want to leave this place get me out there's
not any great definition that is put to that text and it's concerning and it's troubling but we don't have any to to
expand on what she meant by choosing those words and sending them to her parents now some of this information I
want people to keep in mind will not be known to those around Ellen until after her
death so on December 18th 2010 this is a little more than a month before her death someone used Ellen's
computer and I purposely Chang this so if you go to Crime Tim lines.com which is has a wealth of information on this
particular case and a wealth of information on some other cases as well that website probably has the most
information that you can find on the Ellen Greenberg case now I used their timeline but I I overlapped it with a
couple of other timelines that are found online as well so we would have the ability to kind of triple check
those sources and that information but one thing that irritated me a little bit Captain with the
timelines that I was able to find online is they often say that Ellen searched these terms right I don't think that's
fair what we do know is someone searched the terms that we're about to discuss using Ellen's computer it's reasonable
to say that Ellen searched these terms but it's not factual it's not proven 100% so on December 18th 2010 someone
using Ellen's computer searched the terms Suffocation and suicide methods it's important to note here that she
does have her own computer so she's living with her fiance but he has his own computer as well right but sometimes
when you're living with somebody you have a computer that the whole house uses now back to Ellen asking her
parents this is around the same time that she asked her parents or mentioned to her parents the thought of moving
back home back to Harrisburg Pennsylvania they thought this was odd giving her impending marriage and like
you said she's already living there with her fiance they say that Ellen told them
that this had nothing to do with her fiance now around the same time her family urged her to seek profession help
so Ellen goes and sees a psychiatrist on three occasions that we know of who prescribed for her Colin and
ambient kopin for the anxiety and panic attacks and ambient for her insomnia again was she suffering we we've already
mentioned anxiety there had been no mention of panic attacks up until this moment and no mention of insomnia up
until this moment but I'm I'm going to make the Assumption here Captain if the doctor prescribed these medications
for this purpose then these were things that she was experiencing and suffering through well and the difficult thing
with any mental illness is we don't know exactly how the medication is going to affect each individual patient it could
make the situation better but it could make the situation worse and most of the time when doctors are prescribing new
medications to help with mental issues they will say hey if you're feeling worse because of this let me know yeah
and the insomnia thing is scary for me to think about too because we don't know to what degree is this is it simply I'm
having trouble falling asleep I'm having trouble staying asleep or is it straight
up like The Machinist movie where the guy doesn't sleep for days and then it becomes weeks and even longer than that
and I mean you can only imagine the extremes that one would experience if they were not getting any sleep at all
well like I've said many times on this show I think we need to talk about mental health more openly and honestly
and anytime somebody has reached out to me and said hey you've talked about on the show could you give me any advice
I'd say four things hydration sleep diet exercise slash just moving doesn't have
to be going for a run but maybe going for a walk but like I said sleep is so important and anybody that has dealt
with distressors or any me mental illness you could be having a horrible day maybe you're having panic attacks
you're having anxiety you're having crying spells you get a good night's sleep sometimes that can fix everything
so if you're having problems with your sleep that could amplify the mental illness and I don't know if you have any
familiarity with these two drugs that we just discussed but I believe they're both technically a narcotic that they're
at that level now I did take kopin very briefly I was prescribed it and my the way my body reacted to it was I felt
like I had just shotgunned about four or five beers like I I felt buzzed when I would take one and I didn't like the
feeling and and for that reason I was taken off of it like you said earlier a good doctor will say tell me how this
feels or tell me what you're experiencing early on so if this isn't right for you we can switch you to
something else ambient I've never taken I've I but I know a lot of individuals that have taken ambient and they've
described it to me and again everybody's body is different and chemistries are different but the way that it's
described to me is that they would go into a very weird like High Zombie like state
for just a few minutes before going completely under and asleep but that's as much familiarity I have
with either of these two drugs now sometime around the holidays Ellen Greenberg began to change for the worst
according to those closest to her she was anxious overwhelmed at work less eager to appear in photographs the work
thing I find to be a little strange because I have heard and read plenty of people saying how much she enjoyed being
a teacher and how much she loved teaching the kids that she taught and she loved the school she could be going
through changes or or the or the environment could be changing itself she did talk to a cousin about moving into
her guest room but didn't say why she asked her father if she could come home to Paris Harrisburg but didn't say why
he told her to see a psychiatrist we talked about that and her mother came to visit her
concerned yeah around this time too trying to find out what was wrong but she felt that Ellen wasn't wasn't being
forthcoming with with all the information that she was holding back look look if because suicide is one of
the things we'll be talking about in this episode and and throughout this case we have
to understand that that is is not just a real possibility it would be a ruling at
some point we can't say exactly what it is that Ellen was experiencing or if she
even understood it for herself especially if this ends up being a suicide case yeah I mean that's to me
the definition of mental illness is having a hard time processing what your mind is putting yourself through and
maybe not even understanding your own emotions your own feelings your own thoughts right because if you understood
them and you were able to control them that's not mental illness I'm going to fast forward a little bit here Captain
to January 8th 2011 this is when Ellen text her mom saying I'm starting the medication
so she abbreviates some of this I'm starting the med I know you don't understand but I can't keep living with
feeling this way end quote then two days later on the 10th someone on her computer on Ellen's computer someone
searches the terms quick death or I'm sorry term quick death and someone opened an article on euth in Asia and
browsed a website about painless suicide on January 22nd Ellen sent out her save
the date cards for the wedding and she was helping her close friend with her friend upcoming wedding on that day they
go shopping for bridesmaid's dresses while looking for dresses Ellen just starts crying uncontrollably and she
tells her friend I'm sorry I know I'm not myself but I'll get it together let me just put this out there and and maybe
you'll agree maybe you'll disagree but even if you're marrying your best friend even if you're in a
relationship that has been very positive towards you some people get emotional or
have some confusion that's why we have the term cold feet right because it's the death of the single self and now
you're entering a partnership where a lot of people break up boyfriends girlfriends they break up relationships
don't last forever but you're making a commitment for a relationship to last forever so I do think that there is some
Society or family pressure that once you're in that committed relationship as a marriage that maybe that people just
feel more pressure to work out a bad situation but there's a lot of people that and we don't know their
relationship situation cuz we're not in that relationship behind closed doors but there there's many people that get
engaged to somebody that they're still questioning do they want to be with because sometimes in that moment when
you're being proposed to you you think the only option is to say yes because maybe you're not sure that you want to
marry them but you are sure that you don't want to break up with them so this can be a very stressful time and anybody
that has married somebody and that marriage has been very bad will often talk I kind of knew this stuff
beforehand I I wish I would have never married them the thing I was concerned about here too Captain is the living
situation because to me I'm trying to look for what is the biggest change in this person's life and I I would want to
find what is the biggest change in their lifestyle prior to their death regardless if it's a suicide or a
homicide I would always want to try to figure that out so in this situation it appears to you know she's with Sam for
quite some time before they they get engaged did they live together prior to this new apartment it doesn't sound that
way to me and she's had her job for quite some time so the biggest change to me in her life that I see is not her
relationship it's not her work it's simply where she lives and it might be her and Sam living together for the
first time and there are a lot of people out out there that are great together when they can go back to their own
apartment or go stay on their own from time to time and then there are a lot of people that just simply don't work once
you put them together and make them live under the same roof well and just to correct you and I think that is a change
in in their relationship yes so she has a change in her living situation but there is a
change in the relationship they went from boyfriend and girlfriend that live separately to boyfriend and girlfriend
or fiance what what a stupid word that are living together and how many well I've heard this from men and women oh
they were so clean and so organized every time I go over to their apartment it was so clean and organized now we
live together and they're just a slob mhm so things do change when you start living together oh yeah when
you're dating it's like a job interview for for most of it but once you live together it's like you've hired the
person and now you figure out how they really conduct themselves on a day-to-day basis and and just like at
work you might not approve we're like Fine Wines we just get better with time but back to your point there's a major
change in her life and it's not just this engagement but it's a change in the living situation and it's a change in
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mates thanks for joining us here in the garage tall hands in the air party to the people in the back windows to the
walls cheers Colonel cheers to you captain we're going to start on the day and question January 26th
2011 let's get right into it at 7:00 a.m. Ellen speaks with her mother around noon Ellen received a text from a friend
that says you're getting out early to which Ellen replies thank goodness so this is in regard to the school being
closed that day due to the weather which we now know at 1:15 p.m. Ellen Greenberg
left her job as the school Clos due to the severe weather so she's leaving at 1:15 p.m. she stops for gas on her way
home using her visa card at 2:30 she makes a call to a local restaurant this one's this marker is a little strange
here because she doesn't order anything we don't know what the call is in regards
to it could just be just find out if they're open or if they're still going to be delivering even with the snow
she could be planning on what are they going to do for dinner type situation and we'll call back with the order later
at 2:33 p.m. Ellen called someone this call lasted about 30 seconds this call was placed from her apartment and we do
know that she was doing conducting some work from home after being sent home early because she used her computer to
remotely enter grades for her students a little after 2:30 that day at 3:47 Ellen
sends her final text we can give a little bit of background here on this text from what I understand this text
was uh a back and forth with a friend of hers Alicia Young is the woman's name and the text seemed to go back and forth
for about 5 to 10 minutes in which Ellen is mentioning to her friend ongoing trouble at work
or ongoing trouble with her position as a teacher according to this friend and others they all agree saying it in
chorus that Ellen was experiencing a lot of stress and this was due to her work we should give a shout out too CNN has
done some great investigating reporting on this and I mean actual investigation on this case as well over the years at
4:45 p.m. Ellen's fiance Sam Goldberg left the couple's home we know this to be true because there they live in this
very modern apartment building and they have a gym fitness area in this apartment building and so we do have
security cameras that oh they are actually up and running um for this Cas surprise surprise yeah they're up and
running and we have surveillance from the apartment building which captures Sam walking toward the gym the on-site
gym location for the building later he's going to tell police that he went down to the
gym he believes it's 450 p.m. so let's say 445 to 450 p.m. and then uses the elliptical for about a half an hour
before he's going to return to the apartment another marker here is at 4:46 p.m. Ellen uses her laptop well if we
had more concise information on this case and again this is triple checked these sources for this timeline have all
been triple checked when did he leave that apartment because if you have a time stamp of
4:46 someone is using Ellen's laptop and Sam left at 4:45 that's a lot different
than if he left at 450 right just that matter of 5 minutes could mean the world in this case what we can say is between
4:45 and 450 p.m. he did leave the apartment what we can say is at 4:46 someone uses Ellen's laptop if it was
Ellen and Sam had already left the apartment then it would appear that she is alive and well after he exited their
apartment at 5:30 p.m. Sam exits the gym on the first floor of the Venice Loft Apartments building when he goes to try
to get back into his apartment according to Sam he says he couldn't enter the apartment because the security latch was
engaged from the inside despite using his key and banging on the door Ellen did not respond or unlock it so the lock
anybody that's stayed in a hotel or anybody that's ever used one of the chain locks on a door the best way to
describe this lock is it's it's toward the top portion of the door well above the handle and you simply flip over
the metal mechanism so that the door when unlocked regularly you can open it up just a
little bit like you would with a chain lock that would be up there it would open up just an inch or two but you
cannot open the door entirely so I've from the information I found here Captain some that's not
completely accurate with one another is some versions state that Sam was using a
traditional key and other versions state that it was more like a hotel where he had a key card to get in but then
couldn't open the door all the way because that security latch was engaged right from about 5:32 p.m. till 5:54
p.m. we have Sam who is trying to communicate with Ellen most sources say that he's just sending text I did find
at least one source that said he also emailed her but I could never find I could never
find the any information more about the emails but let's go through some of these text so over the course of about
22 minutes he sent her nine messages if we are to believe Sam's story that all these messages go to her phone from
Sam's phone while he's outside in the hallway trying to get into the apartment the apartment door is locked with the
security latch and she lay dead on their kitchen floor at this time if if everything is how he says it was so one
of the texts just simply says hello like question mark another says open the door
these are all very quick rapid texts then there's another one what are you doing one that says I'm getting pissed
hello question mark another says you better have an excuse the next text says what the [ __ ] next T text you have no
idea does the you have no idea one sound and I the I'm getting pissed and you have no idea sound a little threatening
to me those one sound a little threatening to me and so I had a little bit of a concern here but again I guess
we have to remind ourselves if in fact these texts are authentic we do know these texts are sent that's not a
question but if they are authentic meaning that they were sent In the Heat of the Moment and he is locked outside
of the door and does not know what's going on whether we agree with him being angered by the situation or not is
neither here nor there yeah I think in this case and maybe one of the reasons why it's so talked about or discussed is
because there's probably five or six points in this case that you could go round and round about and talk for talk
about for hours I mean first of all when you're looking at these cases you're going to look at
them through your own lens to me going to the gym for 30 minutes that's not in my
wheelhouse it's hard enough to get motivated to go to the gym if I'm going to go I'm staying longer than 30 minutes
but I've also never lived in this modern style apartment complex that has a gym facility on hand and so then you go well
I guess when I've gone to hotels I've used the gym and maybe it didn't take me as long I'm just going to get a quick
walk in or run or whatever you're trying to do and that's what he does with the L
the elliptical so then he comes back he is locked out whether he has his key on him
or not to me that doesn't matter because hey honey I'm going down to the gym for
quick quick workout he's back in about 30 minutes even if the door wasn't latch locked then where are you you you you're
you're supposed to let me in so if these text messages are false if this is staged part of the staging yeah to me
this is either just genius level staging because you have a dead individual by knife so then you go well
you're going to you're going to Stage text messages that paint you in a negative
light I almost think that if this was staged by a narcissist or a horrible piece of [ __ ] that the text messages
would read more like hey I can't get in are you okay hey what is happening you know I'm
concerned you're making me worry but I think he does what most people would do hey you're supposed to be in the
apartment what the f is going on like I'm sitting out here what's the first thing you do after going to the gym you
take a shower and you change your clothes but on top of that he's stuck outside in in the hallway where where is
he supped supposed to go mhm there could there could have been a thought if these
are legit texts there could be a thought in his head of did she somehow lock this
door and leave like what the hell is going on and because the door is latched he has to assume that she's in the
apartment because it's not impossible to leave your apartment and get that locked
to latch but it'd be very tricky or there would have to be some circumstance where if
you slam the door hard enough that maybe the latch locks on its own but we have nobody reporting that that's the case so
you you'd have to use some trickery to be able to get out of the apartment and and latch that door locked so in his
mind you're in you're inside and I look I just don't think this is an unreasonable Tech or I don't even think
this points to him in a in a horrible negative light of like I'm getting pissed off and I think when he what was
the last text that you read you have no idea I think that to me that's implying you have no idea how pissed off I am
right now oh yeah that's that's exactly the way I take it too and that's why I that's if so so reviewing other people's
concerns about the text reviewing other thoughts about his short workout I wanted to address these issues
right here because I don't find any problem with the 30 35 minute workout and I and I get what you're saying but I
agree with what you're saying as well right it's a large part of that is it's a matter of for those that Venture off
and go to a gym the captain's right it can take a lot of motivation and a lot of a lot of
Gusto to get your butt all the way to that gym and once you're there because you have to commute whether it be five
minutes 15 minutes or 20 or so you are a little more motivated to stay there and
kind of get things done now for those of you that have built your own gym in your
garage or your basement you know that hey sometimes if you got 15 minutes or 20 minutes and
you're kind of bored or you have a lot of energy uh you might go down there and and hit the bench for a quick 10 minutes
or or or do a exercise for a brief period of time he the gym is in the same building as him so I don't find any
question with the short amount of time at the gym I don't really find I don't have a big question mark about these
text messages as well because I think what people were trying to look into is his reaction okay so if he's reacting
this way and he's angered and he's threatening her you know you have no idea or I'm getting getting pissed right
if you look at that as a threat and you can I I would agree with that however I think what people were trying to look
for Within These text is does this tell us about their relationship does this tell us if he was abusive to her prior
does this give us any insight into how he conducts himself in that relationship well the main reason that I was bringing
up the questioning the 30 minute exercise is because I'm trying to point out that we have to be clear every time
that we're looking into these cases to recognize that we know we're looking at this case through our own lens so
sometimes we have to take this a step back and well and we have we have the added advantage of looking at this
retrospectively right and and here's what I mean by that because there are people that have great opinions that
said well my re action and again everything's not relative to how you conduct yourself or your personality but
I but it's been stated that well he wouldn't his reaction shouldn't it be more of concern and more of worry rather
than anger and here's where I'll put a little bit of spin on this I'm not saying his actions his his reaction is
is great or well thought out I'm simply saying I don't know that we can deduce anything real from these text
because what if she's locked them out in the past right that there would be nothing to me more aggravating than
having a home and not being 100% in control of when I can enter that home or not if she's locked them out before by
accident or because she was upset about something right or what have you maybe he's been in this situation before
where she and I'm not trying to victim blame here where maybe she overreacted or locked him out
unnecessarily and so he's he's kind of jumping to that conclusion and he's angered right away like what are you
doing I just went down to the gym for a bit so I don't think we can really figure a whole lot out here and I don't
know that we should really be concerned at any high level that he seems to be angered rather than worried because keep
in mind we are retrospectively looking at this we have the advantage of knowing that somebody searched out suicidal
terms on her computer prior to this if it were in fact Ellen that did this does he even know about that right if if he's
not seeing this side of her we have her friends and family saying that there was
a a change in her a great change in her in the winter of 2010 according to those
same people at least the fames told that it's not not it doesn't have anything to
do with the fiance was she able to hide and mask this from him and therefore he he wasn't worried right away he wasn't
concerned right away it was more of a an anger thing I that's that's what's missing so also you know we love going
through these timelines because they are Paramount to every case but what is missing from this case in my opinion is
what questions were asked early on in this investigation and did we ask the right questions
because with as much information and a wealth of information that there is out there about this case there are things
missing from this investigation there's information that is not there and I think that it's not there because the
these questions either weren't asked or they weren't asking the right questions because my first
concern as a detective if I found this information on her computer computer I want to know from Sam what was she what
how was she behaving to you did she did you notice a change in her as well and if you did why weren't you concerned
well and we hear from her family and we hear from friends this idea of I want to
leave this place maybe I can stay with you I want to come back home to me that's again indicative of something's
going wrong with her work but also something's going wrong with her living situation the relationship might be fine
but she just might not like that that apartment for whatever reason but is she communicating this with her fiance so we
got to point this out here because whatever happened has to go down either prior to him leaving the apartment or
upon his return because that's one thing that I think people that have analyzed this case are kind of missing there is
enough time upon his return that something could happened after the gym it's it's a very small window of time
but there is there is a window well no in the in these text messages then it's a different
light because if I come back from the gym and I'm locked out right and I'm a little upset I just I just finished my
workout I want to get in take a shower unwind for the day why is the door locked and this this is where the
investigation you have to turn over every stone you can't just simply look at this situation and go well it's
possible that she uh committed suicide so I'm not going to look into these other things is there any evidence that
she was in the shower is it possible that she accidentally locked the latch and then went into the shower this
making him angry do we have any signs of abuse in the relationship do we have you see what I'm
saying because is is this enough of a reason for them to get into an argument and then she's stabbed 20 times and dies
maybe if this guy is hot-tempered because what we do know is he can't get into the apartment so he has to go down
to security this is this is a very odd scenario because we have this murdered individual or an
individual that committed suicide and we can't really put the onus on that there
could be another killer because not only do we have cameras that actually are working mhm but we have security guards
or coner which a lot of times in these buildings they're one and the same yes and we have so we have cameras working
and we have security so he has to go down and talk to security and to say hey I I can't get
into my apartment the the latch is locked yeah and so that is the scenario here right we have e either either he
killed his fiance or she killed herself there's no alternative suspect here really to be discussed that that we
can believe at this time right there's never been anybody everse pointed toward and then the fact that there are
surveillance security cameras is highly suggestive that it is one of these two scenarios so I want to go through some
information here that is Paramount to the timeline itself so we do know that Sam's phone is
silent from 3:40 p.m. until about 5 : p.m. on the day that Ellen died now we already mentioned that we know
that he left the apartment sometime between 4:45 and 450 to go down to the gym for a
quick workout on the elliptical so that means there's no activity on his phone for approximately 1 hour prior to him
leaving for the on-site gym some people wonder if this is suspicious it could be I mean it means that we have
about over an hour that we know that the both are in the apartment at the same time and he's not occupied at least by
his phone so what could he be busy doing I should we should point out though too
that from his phone data that's been collected there was a gap the prior day from 400 p.m. to about 700 p.m. so this
may be part of his routine as well that he's just not busy on his phone between these particular hours now he's active
again at 5:30 that's because according to his story he can't get into the apartment that is when he starts texting
his girlfriend and that we know that those texts it's about 22 minutes over the course of 22 minutes so that would
be from 3:30 I'm sorry from 5:32 p.m. to 5:54 p.m. now kind of backing up that this corroborates a portion of his story
or at least gives some ear Witnesses because we do have neighbors that say between the time frame of 5:30 and 6:00
p.m. on that day we did hear Sam shouting out Ellen's name several times what's interesting about that to me is I
can infer from the situation that if if earwitness can hear one thing they probably can hear most things right so
they're not hearing screams of bloody murder at the same time either so it would appear to me based off of this
information The Limited information is that if he did it something happened prior to him leaving
that apartment if you're going to plan out a murder and you know how to get out of the apartment and latch that lock
that seems to be only able to be locked from the inside then just think about that for a second I'm going to commit
this murder nobody can see inside the apartment so as long as nobody hears her I can simply
go out the door make sure it latches go for a quick workout when I come back the
door's locked go to security hey my door's locked I can't get in so therefore it's impossible that I killed
her because the door was locked yeah there there was a statement that he made that
he believed that either she was taking a nap or maybe hopped in the shower like you had said or was busy working on her
laptop with her headphones on right and so if if that truly is what he thought then he thought this was just some kind
of accident and then if that makes sense that he's getting angered by her silly mistake but right but again the problem
is if you have ear witnesses to him trying to get her attention trying to get her
to unlock the door which I'm guessing even if he's pissed off he's like well I got
neighbors so he's not going to be super loud the the problem with him attacking her is that we have no ear witnesses to
a to any kind of an attack if he was staging it though why not make a bigger spectacle about the door being locked
well he went down to security and said it's locked and the and and he knows that's going to be on
film no I I know that I'm just saying I I think that if he were thinking this through and really wanted to Stage some
things that this he could have made a bigger spectacle about the door being locked and and I do have I'm not I'm not
going to lie I do have a problem with his statement of well maybe she was in the shower maybe she was taking a nap
maybe she was working with her headphones on again one of the things that I'm trying to point out here is I
don't know the extent of this investigation and I question the level of investigating that was conducted during
that investigation right and I think that anyone should because there's a lot of question marks on their investigation
air quotes investigation one of the questions I would have asked to Sam have you been locked out before two have you
did you know she was experiencing these anxiety and emotional problems did you have
concern and three you're actually able to open up that door even though it's just an inch or
so what did you hear could you when you're texting her or trying to call her phone did you hear her phone ringing did
you hear a sound notification that she had received a text well my other question would be if you have been
locked out before were were you able to get in without getting help well and let's take that a step further you had
said prior that it might be incredibly difficult to lock the door either by accident or from the
outside but you leave you're leaving that as a possibility so let's pretend that that is a possibility if that is a
possibility that's why I'm asking that last question what told you that she was inside of the apartment Sam I I get it
that maybe it was just a a gut feeling or it was the only thing in the moment that seemed logical but I and I would
accept that answer but I want to know was there was there further indication to you Sam that she absolutely was
inside that apartment before because it it goes from text messages to busting down the door to breaking into the
apartment did he check to see if her car was still at the apartments right I mean
I also think it's odd too cuz I believe he reached out to her mother at some point during this before he broke into
the house is that a common thing how much communication on the regular did he have
with her mother some people are become very close with you know this is going to become his mother-in-law is this
somebody that he's become close with that he feels comfortable texting or calling for little things because if I
got locked out of my apartment unless my future mother-in-law has a key to get in
I don't see any reason to contact her now I could see well I busted in the door to get in the apartment and I
didn't find her in the apartment so then I called you cuz cuz that might throw up
some red flags in my brain so that is a little unclear to me here Captain the information I have says that he is calls
Sandy after breaking into the apartment but again that might not be 100% accurate that's just the information I
have but what is interesting too is that there is a call from Sam to outside sources that we don't we do not have
a a marker on our timeline for so do at an unknown time Sam Goldberg called caman schwarzman to let him know that he
was locked out of his apartment so what we can do we can infer based on the sequence of events that this call had to
take place before 6: p.m. before breaking into the the apartment and after 5:30 once he's
aware that he's locked out this to me I'm with you I I think that the phone call to the outside
person at this point doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me he calls Cayman schwarzman and again we don't have
exactly a time on this now based off of what Cayman caman later says again we can kind of figure out the when this
call took place because he says that he suggested to Sam why don't you go down to security and ask the door man for
help so at 6 p.m. Sam does go downstairs to the lobby requesting help from doorman Phil hon the doorman tells Sam
that it is against policy for him to break down the doors but he can call Ellen for him
so this on these timelines here Captain one another part that I've not appreciated is how brief this statement
is because it s this almost implies that he goes down there and immediately is like we need to break down this door
I've reviewed some other information from this Phil hon and from others that were there that day and they they said
that it was much more of a conversation than than right away like requesting that we break down a door it's like
right hey is there any way for us to get in he asked if there was some kind of tool that they could use to undo the
lock from the outside when all those options were exhausted is when the conversation turned to breaking down the
door right and I think this is important because we have individuals that don't know him personally and they're not
saying hey this guy comes down he's huffing and puffing and seems to be having some anxiety or he's not
panicking they're saying don't know the guy but the way I read the situation is this guy's locked down and he's just
trying to figure out a way to get back in at 6:07 and then again at 6:10 p.m. Ellen cell phone receives two phone
calls this is from the Venice Lofts apartments and of course nobody answers so they did as they said they
said well we can at least try to call her the door man is offering to call the police at 6:14 Sam Goldberg calls camon
schwarzman again this time to tell him that the security guard could not help him get into the
apartment at 6:23 p.m. Sam Goldberg is seen on surveillance camera entering the elevator at 6:26 p.m. he answers a phone
call from his cousin and uncle okay so schwarzman is his cousin camon schwartzman's
father is an attorney his cousin and uncle on this phone call tell him you should call
911 at 6:28 Sam Goldberg is seen on surveillance going upstairs at 6:30 this is where things get a little
dicey at 6:30 it is said that James schwarzman the uncle and his son the cousin instructed Sam to force his way in to
the door and to break into the apartment Sam says that he stayed on the phone when he broke broke the door and forced
his way into the apartment and then seconds later names and his cousin came and said that they heard Sam scream to
which then they instructed him to call 911 there are timelines and plenty of Articles out there that say that this
marker isn't accurate okay not that he didn't break down the door at about 6:30 not that he
didn't call 911 shortly after the statements that are made is that the timing is off just enough that he wasn't
actually on the phone with anybody when he forced his way into the apartment to me this is such a a finite amount of
time such a small window I don't know that we can fully inaccurately State matter of factly one way or another if
he was on the phone with these two at the time that he busted the door or not I mean we're talking this is really
breaking down it by second by second if you start looking at these timeline comparisons I frankly don't know that
that means anything it does to me it doesn't Point me One Direction or the other murder or suicide if he happened
to be on the phone with anybody at all when he busted into the apartment not at that very moment yeah I don't think it's
definitive but if I was talking to my cousin and my uncle and I didn't think it was like that big of a deal I'm just
trying to get into my apartment and they tell me to bust down the door while I'm
hanging up the phone and trying to bust down the door but I think by if I'd have to lean one
way or the other by having your cousin and your uncle which is a which is a lawyer on the phone with you when you
find your dead girlfriend to me that's leans towards staging yes I question why he's calling anybody outside of that
building in that moment at all regardless of who if it was her mother we know he talked to his cousin and his
uncle I just that's not where my head would go I if if anybody outside of that building needed to be made aware of that
situation in my mind in that moment would be police and that's it yeah but it's establishing his whereabout and
it's establishing basically his demeanor at that time so or is it asking an attorney
for help before the cops get get there right and again because it's family members we don't know what he said to
them or what he didn't we don't know but even just the calls to the cousin or if
it's a call to her mother or it's talking to the security guard you're you're establishing your whereabouts
you're establishing your demeanor and that's essentially establishing an alibi and so if it's staging this this guy uh
is pretty sophisticated at 6:36 p.m. emergency responders arrive on the scene and at 6:40 she's pronounced dead she
had 20 stab wounds with 10 of the wounds to the back of her neck area in the back
of her head at 7:30 p.m. James and camian schwarzman arrived at the Venice Lofts
Apartments this after they say that having received multiple calls from Sam Goldberg
the medical examiner is requested at 7:31 so at the scene at this time we would have police on the scene one thing
that's troubling here is of record on the record there's we don't have detectives showing up to the scene until
8:20 approximately 8:20 p.m. and the reason why I'm citing that here Captain is one it was like eventually once they
all arrived it was like six detectives on the scene but I think it's key here to point
out yes we have police here yes we have the deant is here yes we have the person
that owns the apartment with the deant is there we have some of the key people but what we also have at the scene 50 5
minutes prior to detectives being on the scene is an attorney and the cousin of the fiance
[Music] so much more to get to so many thoughts so many opinions stick around for part
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Mysterious Death of Ellen Greenberg /// Part 1

Episode: 823

Part 1 of 3

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This week we join in the ongoing discussions being had across the nation about the perplexing Ellen Greenberg case. Ellen died after sustaining twenty knife wounds. Surprisingly her death was ruled a suicide. But her parents, Josh and Sandee did not agree with the ruling and so they fought for their daughter. The Greenberg’s went on a litigation battle against the Philadelphia Medical Examiner’s office and have been fighting for their daughter for fourteen years. What really happened in that apartment?

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Brief Summary

Ellen Greenberg's mysterious death raises questions about suicide or homicide, explored through her fiancé's 911 call and investigation details.

Key points

911 Call Reveals Chaos. A frantic 911 call uncovers the shocking circumstances surrounding Ellen's death.
Ellen Greenberg's Mysterious Death. The tragic case of Ellen Greenberg, whose death sparked controversy and legal battles.
Ellen's Struggles. Ellen's anxiety and stress escalated leading up to her death, raising concerns.
Ellen's Struggles with Mental Health. Ellen texted her mom about starting medication, revealing her emotional turmoil.
The Pressure of Marriage. Even positive relationships can bring emotional confusion, highlighting societal pressures.
Locked Out and Desperate. Sam's frantic texts while locked out raise questions about their relationship dynamics.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

There's a knife sticking out of her heart!

Caller reveals shocking details about the emergency.

5:40WatchFeb 26, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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