Mind Hunter /// John Douglas /// Part 1 | Forensic Files

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[Music] John Douglas started his career with the FBI in 1970. In the field, he served as
a hostage negotiator. He transferred to the FBI's behavioral science unit or BSU
for short in 1977 where he taught hostage negotiation and applied criminal psychology at the FBI academy in
Quantico. Douglas later went on to create and manage the FBI's criminal profiling program. While traveling
around the country providing instruction to law enforcement agencies, Douglas began interviewing serial killers and
other violent sex offenders at various prisons. He interviewed some of the most notable violent criminals as part of the
study, including David Burkowitz, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gasey, Charles Manson, and Edmund Keer. He used the information
gathered from these interviews. He examined crime scenes and created profiles of the perpetrators, describing
their habits and attempting to predict their next move. In cases where his work helped to capture the criminals, he
built strategies for interrogating and prosecuting them as well. Douglas first made a public name for himself with the
involvement in the Atlanta child murders. Douglas first made a public name for himself with his involvement in
the Atlanta child murders case back in 1977 to 1981. He is the author of two of the garage's favorite true crime books,
Mind Hunter and The Cases That Haunt Us. And he's joining us here in the garage today via telephone. And Mr. Douglas, it
is an honor to have you joining us once again. >> Well, thank you. >> First off, Mr. Douglas, everybody wants
to know, will there be season 3 of Mine Hunter? You certainly have the inside track. What can you tell us? Will it
happen and when? I tell you the uh now it's like two months ago I got a call from Holt Mall who plays Bill Tench
character. He stayed with me uh uh when he was developing his part in the show and but he he sounded kind of grim and
and was that uh all the actors wanted to return but it was a question with uh David Fincher the director. He spent so
much time so much time filming in Pittsburgh. He for each each season he spent about 7 months there and he's such
a perfectionist that the actors are working almost the entire year on the you know on each uh on each series what
they were saying that he's u you know exhausted. I just don't personally understand it. Neither the some of the
actors. Uh why don't you get use some other directors? Uh some there there were other directors involved in in
season 1 and season two. Of the 19 total episodes in two seasons, Fincher did did
seven of them. Personally did seven. But when he did the series House of Cards, he started it, but then other other
directors took over over for the uh for the show. So I don't I mean it just uh everyone's you know was hoping it got
tremendous ratings the reviews were were all you know all good but I I mean it doesn't uh for now it's not he takes you
know if you can recall season 2 the first episode I just give you an idea there was a barbecue scene with Bill
Tench and he's meeting his neighbors who are finding out for the first time kind
of what he does with the profiling at Quanico and all that and they started asking questions. That one scene uh was
repeated seven nearly 75 times 75 times before uh Fincher approved it how he wanted that scene uh to go. I uh and
it's and because I made that he's made he's made the Netflix a lot of money. You know, it was if it was anyone else
they say they would say, "Okay, it's fine. We'll get another director." But no, they're they're not doing it. But I
I just in the back of my mind, I just think they will some point, you know, I may I may be dead and buried, but but
some point I hope they'll bring it back. There's so much more to tell. I mean, even season two, the Atlanta child
killings. Uh I mean that and and and you're you know, you're uh the people listening to your show have to realize
that's based on the book, but it's not the book. Uh the like the Atlanta case did not go down like that. Matter of
fact, in reality, I thought it went down in a real way went down a lot more dramatic. And my role in that case as
far as coaching the the prosecution uh on how to to interrogate him when he would take the stand. Uh my attitude
with toward the the uh the prosecutors and experts that the FBI and the state brought in there and how how uh they
they were going to throw my ass out of there. They did because I was just so critical of them uh on how they
testified. They were so technical, no one could even understand what they were were saying. I mean, I couldn't
understand what they were saying. Uh and the defense experts that they brought in
talked they may have been saying stuff that's not correct uh their analysis, but it was it was clear it was something
that the jurors could follow and they were nodding their heads like an agreement with with their experts. So,
um, there's so much, you know, so they they didn't finish that case. I would think of season three, they got that
case. I mean, they got they have I think so many different cases. The Ted Bundy case, they could do Robert Hansen up in
Alaska who hunted women down like wild animals would set him loose in the wilderness. And uh, and you have that
case, the you have that buffalo 22 caliber killer. I mean it's just there's the Tylenol case then cases of smaller
no one really the public doesn't even know about but just very very interesting interesting uh you know
cases and they it may not follow the book they're kind of interpreting it the way they want to but but it's uh it's
it's better than some of the other shows that uh uh that that I've seen even like
with Criminal Minds was very successful show but behavioral science unit we don't when you you're in that unit you
don't So, you're not out making arrests. You're not taking cases away from police. You're not kicking down doors.
You know, it's cerebral when you reach when you reach the uh the unit. And you're a coach. You're you're coaching
uh uh FBI. You're coaching local law enforcement on on uh on on how to to investigate or or you know, or lead
them, you know, in the best direction for say an unknown subject uh case. So, uh, what they portrayed in Mind Hunter
series was good. Yeah. Hopefully, it's a five. It was a 5-year arc to the show. It's supposed to be on for 5 years. Uh,
and uh, then there's plenty of cases to fill up those five years. So, we will see.
>> Yes. When asked to give a brief description about Minehunter, when I recommend the show to friends and
family, I always say it's the more adult, more intelligent real life version of Criminal Minds.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's just uh there's such interest in that kind that kind of show
today in these crime uh conferences around the country. It's just it's it's amazing when I haven't done any public
speaking because the co virus but when I been going out the conferences 80 90% of
the audience are women uh too that are really uh really into the this well they want to know cuz they too they're the
victims of the of the kind of violent crimes that I and my colleagues have worked over the years and they're
interested in to better understand the personality what creates these people what makes these people you know uh
different than we are what what what was their backgrounds? Was it predictable that they would commit uh you know these
types of uh types of crimes and uh and now with all these dating services, you know, meeting people and you know at
locations, you don't know, you know, just because someone puts a nice picture up and gives you this background bio,
this little bio, doesn't mean that's who the person really is. Uh my mother when
when my since passed away, she used to tell my sister when you meet when you meet a man
or boy, this is years ago. When you meet a boy, ask him what his relationship is
with his mother. And my mother was was right on the money there because of the people who I've interviewed, some of the
most violent offenders, there was always an issue on the mother's side where they
were there was this abuse or neglect of some of some type uh uh going on with them. Uh, and uh, it's they loved their
mother in St. John, they hated their mother. When I interviewed Gary Hidnix in Philadelphia, who kept women in the
pit like in the movie Silence of the Lambs, I interviewed him Lesie Stall at 60 Minutes. Just got to 60 Minutes.
That's how long ago it was, in 1991, and followed me into Pittsburgh to interview
where I interviewed Gary Hidnik. And when I got around to talking about his mother, he just went absolutely nuts,
you know, and and crying and and uh you know, and he he he loved her and hated her all at the same time. And she was
very very abusive, you know, toward him. And this is not to say that everyone is
good is abused turned out to be a violent, you know, anything. But I'm just saying of the people who I've
interviewed, uh rarely I I I can't think of one that you could say came from some
loving, nurturing kind of background. They all have some type of uh dysfunction, you know, in their lives.
>> Let's talk about the still unsolved terrorizing murders and threats from the unidentified serial killer who called
himself the Zodiac. You reviewed and profiled the Zodiac case years after the fact and still were able to offer up
some very fascinating and intriguing analysis about the crimes and the person who committed them.
>> Yeah. the uh with well with the Zodiac, we never the unit really never got involved with the uh the analysis of
that case. We've had a lot of people come forward over the years. There's been different suspects, you know, uh
you know, developed. Um when that case was going on, we really didn't even have a behavioral science unit. When we
finally got the case, uh it was it was when so-called Zodiac was writing a communication wrote a communication to
the detective who was assigned to the case. He had a private office, a private line, hotline. And uh so we got we were
going to do an analysis of the communication. We call it psycho linguistic analysis. All it is is just
you're doing a profile of the author of the communication. Um the the uh police immediately called us up and said,
"Stop. Forget about it." You know why? Why? We figured out who wrote the uh communication. Who was it? The
detective. Why? Yeah. The detective wrote the communication himself to he's trying to because he had not had any
good leads. No leads. Everything just died. There was nothing going on. And to perpetuate the case, he wrote this
so-called letter from the uh you know the the uh the Zodiac. So, uh, but as far as I mean, it's it's a case
if it was a case today, I I think we'd be successful, uh, when you get a case like that, uh, and and how I was
evolving in when I was the unit chief in the bureau and training others, it's I was kind of deemphasizing the profile
because because the whole the idea of a profile is you're trying to generate leads. you try try to uh peique the mind
of interest of people who may know uh some of the uh the characteristics of that are fitting this charact uh uh the
person responsible for the crime. So, I began to focus in more on on proactive techniques and uh to to to maybe get the
subject uh to inject himself in the investigation or get the subject to to go to a particular location uh because
we we may have um planted something there. We may have had a memorial service there. Uh and uh
give you an example. I was sent I I was sent to go before the uh uh internal affairs they call OPR office of
professional responsibility and and which is not good when you go before internal affairs and and so I went I
went before a whole group and they said John you're not lying are you to uh to the media through the media uh to the
public? You're not lying are you? And I said, I said, 'What do you mean? You are
you telling the truth? I said, 'Well, I don't know. I said, let me give you an example. I said this, there's a case in,
and I told him, there's a case in San Diego that u a woman car was uh broken down on off the side
of the road. She determined she she ran out of uh gasoline. Um no one knows where she is for a day or two. Then they
find her up in uh outside of San Diego in some foothills and she has a a dog collar around her neck. She's been
sexually assaulted and she's been gared. Uh I worked with the police. I'm telling
the internal affairs. I worked with the police. We came out with a series of articles. I said because it was my
opinion that that whoever killed her was the guy who picked her up to take her maybe to a gas
station. Gas station. So she thought. And so we we want to put a series of communications out looking for lead
value. Did anyone see anything? Did anyone see anything? Any vehicle stop, any description of a vehicle or a car?
We put that out. We flood the airways and and we wait a couple days and now we come out with another another we we're
getting very good uh leads thanking the public. We are now getting a description
of not only the vehicle but the individual who uh who stopped alongside of the victim's car. Um, the purpose of
that was to get the subject to inject himself into the investigation to uh to to come up with a legitimate reason why
he may have been spotted there. And sure enough, the guy in injects himself into
the investigation that that just so you know that I was there. I I offered her a
ride. She said she ran out of gas, but she she said no. So, I went on my on my merry way. So I told internal affairs
that was that was the guy we arrested him or the police arrested him. Now if you're telling me you're telling me that
my lying to the press or whatever well it's not exactly the truth. It's not the truth but we caught this or they the
police caught it by using this technique. So what what and so they look at me and they uh they said well let's
we'll just tell you something. I said, "We understand what you're saying, but if if it ever gets out or anything or
you you screw up, man, we're going to have your head. We're going to we're going to have your head. I'll be working
cattle rustling cases in but Montana or some place they're going to if if not fired from the bureau." So I started
really working on on on proactive kinds of things and interview interview uh techniques and suggestions because
because sometimes you may do a profile and it doesn't fit every characteristic. So someone will say, well this that
profile they they they said he would have a uh a a college education or and and this guy only he's a high school
high school education or well we may miss the age which is difficult. Age is difficult because uh there's
chronological age and behavioral age and uh and you may miss may miss that. We missed the Arthur Shaw Cross case up in
Rochester, New York. We missed it by about 15 years. And the reason we missed it was because he was incarcerated for
those 15 years for a double homicide where he killed two children. And then he gets out of prison. It's
unbelievable. They let him out of prison. Had to serve him 15 years. He goes up to Rochester and he starts
killing prostitutes up in Rochester. So he got everything right. Uh missed the age, but c but uh we staked out. We we
told them to stake out. If you find a body, don't recover it right away, but stake it out. And so they so the cops,
they they get a lead. There's a body below a bridge, an overpass below a bridge in the country and and uh the
there's a victim down there and it's frozen over with ice and uh they stake it out and guess what? Police are are
surveilling. Here comes a guy just sits on the on the edge of the the bridge eating having a drink and the victim is
right uh below him and that was Arthur Shaw Cross serial killer in Rochester, New York. So, so it's it's it's it's I
like the idea of developing, you know, uh using imagination and creativity to to catch these guys and and kind of
de-emphasize, like I said, deemphasize the uh uh the profile. Sometimes you could be right on the money. Some cases
you forget you can't you can't do it because too many maybe too many types of people could perpetrate this kind of uh
type of crime. Uh and u rape cases. we have surviving victims, we could be pretty good uh once if we do the right
kind of interview or or we coach the we coach the police to determine what was the verbal assault was, what the sexual
assault was, and what the physical assault was. Verbal, sexual, physical, and what was it like throughout the
first encounter with the victim, during the sexual assault and afterwards, verbal, sexual, physical. And if we have
that information, we do a good interview, we that kind of case, we can do a very good profile and come up with
because we have a rape type, we have like about five or six rape typologies based upon if we have that kind of
information where we can determine pretty good who the offender is. >> In a similar fashion, in regards to the
Zodiac attack at Lake Beressa, this is the murder of Cecilia Shepard in the attempted murder of Brian Hartnell.
During the course of tying up the victims, the Zodiac Killer, wearing a black executioner type hood with clip-on
sunglasses over the eyeholes disguise. He claimed to be an escaped convict from the Montana State Prison in Deer Lodge,
Montana, where he had killed a guard and stole a car to make a getaway. Now he's
telling the young couple he just needed their vehicle and money to drive and escape to Mexico. You had said you would
have used that information to try to draw the killer out to present himself to law enforcement and come forward.
What would have been your strategy to do so? >> Yeah, it would have just been to, you
know, to release. I I just believe in in uh working with the media, investigative
reporters with the media, releasing information and not sitting on you can sit on information for a period of a
couple of you know maybe couple of days or so but at some point you have to re you know release the uh you know release
the information. Now whether or not that information was true or not we we you know we wouldn't uh uh you know we
wouldn't have you know have uh known that uh again it would I'd have to it's been so
long since I even looked at that you know that case. But let me show tell you something else. So it was similar uh the
what he did what his technique would was he was trying to diffuse the situation.
He was trying to calm calm the victims down. Don't worry all I want is your vehicle. Same thing I interviewed Dennis
Raider the BTK strangler in a case that I did in the 70s and 80s and and never it never analysis never led to his
arrest. his his stupidity led to his arrest. But he used that same uh technique with the Otero family when he
killed the Otto and and the uh the children, the mother and father that please all I want, you know, I just want
your car, you know, and and your money. I'm not going to do anything to you. And
and and so that they allowed uh it was a very good motus operandi. It allowed him
to diffuse the situation and uh uh and gain control of them and and uh you know and tie them up. Uh it's going back to
the Zodiac to kind of it kind of shows you though that's pretty sophisticated. It's a pretty good MMO uh you know to
use and almost sounds like uh it's been so long it almost sounds like a law enforcement technique. Dennis Rider uh
was a pseudo law enforcement. You know, he was a compliance officer in town. He was studying criminal justice at Witchah
State. Uh so uh and a lot of these serial killer types do have law enforcement backgrounds looking like the
Golden Gate killer uh you know out there and uh but even others who or you ask them what uh what would be your favorite
uh profession be generally it's law enforcement is what they pick and some of them act even actually work as
security guards. So, but I sometimes it's disturbing to uh to see how I can't think of the name. You probably uh know
this, Nick, the the case in Indiana of the two little girls that were on that bridge.
>> Yes. The murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German from Deli, Indiana. I did
a brief interview on I think it was Good Morning America and they I had that other book out the Killer Cross and they
threw out that case and and they never I mean you can sit on that information but
when they sit on had the the audio tapes the the audio tapes and uh you know was
like I think if I call it something like come with me follow me or something like
come with me. >> Yes. The perpetrator said guys down the hill. >> Yeah. And they sound authoritarian, man.
I mean, you know, and they sat on that for God, wasn't it like 2 years or so? It was it was ridiculous. You don't you
don't sit on on something like uh, you know, like that uh, you know, for that period of time. That case to me that was
a solvable kind of case. that is not a it's not a case where some stranger comes roaming into a a community and
just by the fluke you know and this I think it was like a winter day he he's comes across this railroad trestle and
he confronts these girl it's like he has there's this knowledge of knowledge of the area that's his comfort zone that
area there whatever that area is like I don't I just don't know I know it was just rural I don't know we don't know
how they were killed if you knew how they were killed IA even uh you like I said you can sit on it for a while but
or or but I think it was would have been very solable if I would have known like
were they sexually assaulted? Yes or no? Were they both sexually assaulted? Were
they were they redressed? Were they unclothed? Were they did he pose the bodies? Uh did he try to secrete the
bodies? Hide the bodies from uh from from open view? Are they missing anything any jewelry? Any clothing or
any anything like that? uh method of death. Uh who can we can we determine who was killed first? Uh yeah, it's a
solvable it's really a solvable case, but not not a year later, two years, you know, two years later. I mean, unless
they they luck out and get DNA, but it's uh yeah, I just upsets me sometimes when
I I see why didn't they release this information? I mean, I did the same thing with the bureau, too. um with our
own our own cases. I mean, you got to sit on them for a while, but bits and pieces of information you can certainly
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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] Mr. Douglas, you referenced BTK Dennis Raider and I was talking about the
Zodiac attack at Lake Beressa. Do you think that there's a high probability, a good chance that Dennis Rider learned
that technique by reading about the Zodiac Killer? >> Yes. Yeah. Because like I said, he was
in he uh was in criminal justice. In fact, the initial analysis we did and was we did one in 79 and we were just
getting going really. But then we did a really good one in ' 84 with a group of us and uh we we wanted to focus we told
the focus that over if you have a criminal justice university nearby and sure enough it was witchah in retrospect
he went to witchah um you know you know and very I mean they will they follow uh
they'll read books and things like that people will always ask Nick too a question like well can they learn from
from your books. I mean, it becomes like a manual and and uh not not really because what because
you should be able to read. You can see when things are done that the patterns just don't don't always fit there that
the the killer may do something to the victim that gives himself away. It may be the way the body is disposed of uh
say a parent killing their child and uh you know it and maybe read a book you know you know to okay what make sure you
don't uh uh you know let somebody else find the victim don't be the one to find the victim some it's read some case like
that uh but in a case like that when we find say when we found the victim we see
that things were done to the victim that uh the victim was buried I'm thinking of
a case as I'm telling you this is buried in the back of a house and the uh the there's plastic bag over the face and uh
part of the body uh to protect it from really from uh the from the elements, protect it from insects and uh dirt. Uh
it's something that uh you know that someone close to the victim would have done. So you we're not looking for a
stranger a stranger murder. So, so you should be able to you should be able to pick up if someone uh cuz is following a
a uh a case. We had we had a case of a of a this was years ago was Roy Hazelwood who since passed away. It was
real good. did a lot in the area of rape. And a woman uh got would get these obscene calls and she got a whistle and
she blew the whistle into the phone and uh she would be murdered and a whistle would be found,
you know, be thrown on her body. Also, a magazine, a magazine that this guy just
so happened to have, the killer had of a woman using that technique on an obscene
telephone call. Uh and these were these were these old True Detective magazines we had used to have years years ago. So,
so uh he got back, you know, he got he got back to her, uh in an indirect, uh in not indirect, a very direct way from
a magazine, uh and retaliated, but we ended up, you know, getting getting him as you as well. that guy
>> you referenced that a criminal could read and could study crimes and possibly
read your books to help them get away with murder and avoid being apprehended. One thing that I found fascinating when
reviewing some old video footage was a gentleman that you met and spoke with, Mark Buyers, who at one time was
considered a suspect, at least in the minds of the public in the West Memphis 3 case. And I noticed in that video
footage when he was being interviewed at his apartment, that there were several of your books on his shelves or his
desk. Can you tell us why you believe that Mark Buyers is not a good suspect in the West Memphis 3 case?
>> He had a book that I gave him a book after I I determined he was not a suspect, you know, in the uh you know,
in the case. Uh Mark Buyers, yeah, he recently he recently died when when he made uh that series of uh shows. What
was the name of the the the first one? The first one, uh, >> the HBO documentary Paradise Lost: The
Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills. >> He was pied with alcohol and and, uh, prescription drugs. He was he was
scripted uh you know through you know throughout that uh the the person who uh killed those children and uh uh uh the
the method and manner of of disposal told me it was not uh it was not Mark Buyers uh uh he did not have a history
really any kind of a major kind of history of assaulted type of behavior. Uh it was the other stepfather who was
never interviewed by the police throughout the years. Uh the that 50 analysis that I did uh for the team
that was working uh the case the ch the children uh it it it showed me and my goal was was was the could the was it a
teenager these three teenagers involved? No. the way that children weren't disposed of. They were uh the children
did have their clothes on, which would be a way of controlling the kids if they if they're stripped down or they could
have been playing out there and they could have been naked to begin with when someone approached them. But the way
they were disposed of and the person uh stuck a stick in the clothing and and and poked it down under the water uh
that is pretty fairly criminally uh you know sophisticated. Uh the the children died of combination of drowning and and
blunt force uh trauma. Uh there were people early on in the investigation said there were teeth marks. There were
human teeth marks on the body. But it turned out it was animal predation. Uh you know you you probably know that uh
you know now. But getting back to buyers, I spent hours and hours. I mean, I spent uh uh with with all the victims
and my goal after I determined who was who who was not responsible that this is a
non-solved case, they they meaning the investigative team, Peter Jackson, the director who was funding this these
experts here, was to talk to the parents and I got to talk to all the parents except the Moore victim. uh they had
since divorced and uh uh I got the mother on the phone and and uh just could not uh even even have an
opportunity to speak with her. I did get to speak to the other victims uh the other victim's families and at first
they wanted to throw me out of their homes but once I sat and explained to them how different things how what
happened to their children uh that that this was not a youthful type of a crime at all. Uh, and it was then again the
the person who they came up with as a suspect, who's who was the uh the other father, the stepfather who's never
interviewed. Do you remember the name, Nick? >> Terry Hobbs. >> Yeah, Terry Hobbs. Uh, I got to
interview I did interview uh him. He did certainly have the history history of uh of of violence. Uh they found hair
which was interesting, but it was uh uh human hair on a one of the uh in a liature of the shoelaces uh that was
used to tie one of the victims as hair uh it was mitochondrial DNA was found on the hair and also on a branch hair that
was mitochondrial linked to you know linked back to him. But the case the case isn't going anywhere because the if
they're not if they're not working the investigation uh at all. They had me speak to the district attorney uh down
there and and u after uh we came out with uh you know our show Peter Jackson produced
and um it was called West of Memphis and uh >> Mhm. Yeah, the the father uh uh go I'm
trying to think of let me the I'm trying to think of the uh that's the name of the show that we we
did did or something but anyway they had me talk to the yeah I can't but doesn't
matter but I spoke I did speak to to the district attorney and the district attorney um he saw the show he's kind of
niffed uh about our our take on it and he says and he said I don't he told me he said I don't
I I don't know if they uh did it or not. And I said, I do know they didn't do it.
They didn't do it. And I I explained to him the crime scene and and uh the type of person that would have perpetrated
this these crimes is not useful type of an offender. And he tells me though, he says, "Well, the timing isn't very good.
The timing." And I didn't know what he meant. I thought maybe timing because he just released them from prison. But it
turned out like 30 days later I find out the timing isn't any good because he's running for political office down there
and that's why the timing wasn't any good. But no one to this day I mean they didn't bring in like the AR Arkansas
State Police and they're very good police agency. Uh the bureau really never got involved you know in the
investigation uh you know either uh they were hellbent on making this a a satanic
type of murder. That was a big thing in that period of time. You had people like
Haraldo Rivera on television saying that there's 50,000 children are being abducted yearly and it's shown a satanic
connection. Even Oprah Winfrey had a special on her show. cops were being trained look for certain graffiti
indicating Satanism and and uh yeah and uh so they were hellbent on making that a satanic crime and you have Damian
Eckles and wearing black and and uh they had blinders on and so they they made a
case using uh initially Jesse Miss Kelly was so-called so-called confession uh that he you know that he gave but it's a
shame it was a shame uh of wrongful conviction how the lives you were pretty much pretty much destroyed. And uh and
so you one book I did I did a book uh law and disorder that includes that case includes the uh John Benny Ramsey case
and include the Amanda Knox case. All cases I was involved with. Uh I did that couple of two years three years ago
maybe. [Music] Thank you guys so much for joining us here in the garage. Join us again
tomorrow. If you're not following us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook, or you can follow the kernel, the crispiest of
kernels on the app called Untapped. So you can see what drinks the colonel has been drinking.
>> That's right. Join us back here in the garage tomorrow. Until then, be good, be
kind, and don't litter. [Music]

Mind Hunter: John Douglas /// Part 1

Episode:445

Part 1 of 2

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This week we are joined once again by Legendary F.B.I. Profiler John Douglas, the Mindhunter. Nic ask questions regarding some of the cases that haunt us. Listen in as we discuss The Zodiac, The West Memphis 3 and JonBenet Ramsey.

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Brief Summary

John Douglas discusses criminal profiling, the Atlanta child murders, the Zodiac Killer, and the West Memphis 3 case.

Key points

Airwick Essential Mist Diffuser. Transforms your space with inviting fragrances, creating the perfect ambiance for any occasion.
John Douglas on Mindhunter. Douglas discusses the future of Mindhunter and the cases it could cover.
The Zodiac Killer Analysis. Douglas shares insights on the Zodiac case and the challenges faced in profiling.
Zodiac Killer's Technique. The Zodiac Killer used a sophisticated method to control his victims during the attack.
West Memphis 3 Case Insights. Analysis reveals the real suspect in the West Memphis 3 case was overlooked by police.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's good to be seen, and it's good to see you.

Host Nick welcomes listeners.

1:54WatchSep 4, 2025

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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