Kyron Horman /// The Suspect | Forensic Files

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enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair be a dork be a geek let's talk some true
crime [Music] [Music] as we sit here today Captain young Kyron Horman he has been missing for seven
years he's been missing since that last day that he was seen at his school on a Friday June 4th 2010 last spotted by his
stepmother who said that she saw him walking to his classroom he's reported missing and now we're left here Captain
wondering what happened to this little boy really when you when you narrow it down there are three options right we
have option A Kyron the little boy left left the school on his own wandered off somewhere there was yeah eight access
points in and out of this school building he was spotted near one of those at the around the last time that
he was seen um we also have option b that he was taken by a total stranger and option C
that somebody within his inner circle is responsible for why he disappeared well
the search effort was huge yeah and it happened quickly and so it seems like option A doesn't make a lot of sense I
think we would have found him by now and even if he left the school an accident happened I think we would have found his
body by now yeah because we have a situation like you said very quickly after he went missing within seven or
eight hours the searches the Searchers are out and the initial search lasted over 10 days and was regarded as one of
the largest in the state's history with more than thirteen hundred people from Oregon Washington and Northern
California looking for the boy they checked a two mile radius around the skyline school that he attended and also
parts of Savi Island we both agree that theory a with Chiron just leaving doesn't make a lot of sense but Theory B
somebody grabbing him could be a good possibility yeah well and we have this situation here Captain which it
sucks I mean to sum it up in in to one big word it sucks because what's going on that day it's a very
very busy day at that school uh regarded by most the teachers as the busiest day
of their school year yeah it's their science fair in the morning and then we have a talent show in the afternoon and
guess what if you are some terrible person and you're looking to grab a kid well there's a big sign out in front of
the school that says on this date we're having a science fair from this hour to this hour and we're having a talent show
from this hour to this hour the school is basically open somewhat open to the public I mean they're not expecting
random people to just walk in the school but they have the school open at this time open early so that parents and
students can tour the science fair yeah and I'd argue that maybe it's not some random person because yeah they're
they're advertising that there's a science fair but you don't know how heavily chaperone this is going to be
but yeah it is up open to the public the other thing too is if you had any information about the students and about
the school you'd also know that the school wasn't under surveillance so that gives you a opportune window yes and the
thing here is though while this is a possible scenario it seems it does seem a little unlikely to me and and I'll
tell you why okay he's he's seven we have a seven-year-old boy we have no evidence leading us down this road we
have nobody saying you know I saw Chiron with some strange person or I or he was
heard yelling and screaming because somebody grabbed him and pulled them into his vehicle yeah you would think
that this would be a safe place for Chiron so if somebody did grab him that he would feel safe enough to be able to
scream for help so the likelihood that there's all these eyewitnesses that didn't see Kyron leaving with some
strange person it's kind of weird yeah and I and I know there's people out there listening that are going you know
he's only seven and yes we've covered cases before and so it is a possibility that he could have been Lord to
somebody's vehicle that he got into the vehicle willingly he is only seven um that is somewhat of a possibility but
I think the obvious possibility and most likely possibility here and it seemed to
be what the police really honed in on early into the investigation and searched for Chiron is it somebody
within his inner circle was involved in this disappearance along with all these allegations and weird speculations about
the stepmother it's kind of clear that we need to dive into her as a possible suspect I agree and I think we'll what
we should do is just kind of point out the different suspicious behaviors along the way and kind of dive into those as
they as we go through our list here now just to be clear she has never been named a suspect but she has never been
cleared as well correct so as we said the police became suspicious when they searched uh Terry horman's cellular
phone records and it was revealed that she wasn't where she said she was the morning that Chiron disappeared this is
what led to the whole Savvy Island thing which is about five six miles from Kyron
school this led to a massive search of the island for the missing boy but again no trace of Chiron and with this piece
of evidence it made me wonder was it just a area that you would drive onto and you wouldn't know but our listeners
have reached down and said hey if you know that area and you know Savvy Island that once you're on it you know you're
on the island yeah yeah and just to be clear it's a River Island but it is a rather large uh piece of land but like
you said and like we speculated in episode one it would be tough to end up on an island accidentally and not be
able to recall that you were there now Terry's statements the Stepmom statements to police indicate that after
leaving the school at 8 45 a.m the day that Kyron went missing she ran errands at a local grocery store this is the
Fred Meyer store until about 10 10 a.m and then from 10 10 a.m to 11 39 a.m she states that she drove her daughter
around town in in an attempt to use the motion of the vehicle to soothe the toddler's ear earache Terry then went to
a local gym at approximately 11 39 a.m and she says that she worked out that day until about 12 40 p.m by 1 21 she
had arrived home some other information that we kind of asked for from you guys was is it odd to drive a kid around that
long it's kind of half and half some people said Ah that's not that long especially if the kid is sick maybe you
drive around longer and then the other half would say that is way too long so where was was she driving around we're
not really for sure but what is odd about this and what so many listeners pointed out was your kid is sick you
drive your kid around for an hour and a half and then you decide to take the kid
to the gym with you right it seems like your if your kid is that sick that you're skipping the gym and just heading
home yeah so I I love that response that we got from the listeners because that's
a very big question Mark you don't drive that kid around for an hour and a half and then put her in the the daycare
center at the gym to be amongst other kids if this kid was so uncomfortable and so sick and you were truly worried
trying to soothe this sick child you're taking that child home after you after you get her to fall asleep or like other
listeners pointed out you would continue driving around so the child would sleep
as long as possible this office obviously Captain leaves us with quite a window of time where something could
have happened where she could have been not where she said she was and then there's also a little dispute about
actually how long she was at the gym we know that she was at the gym at 11 39 because she has to check in the problem
is we have other people saying I did see her at the gym but I don't I don't remember seeing her for an hour I don't
remember seeing her afternoon where she says that she was there until 12 40 p.m this is an another window of time where
something could have happened yeah it's weird with the eyewitness accounts of her being at the grocery store and the
eyewitness accounts of saying that she was at the gym again makes me wonder is she trying to establish a alibi
well and I'll tell you what here Captain I think for this one if you want to keep
score at home or you're keeping score in your garage regarding Terry's involvement in kyron's disappearance I
think for the for this portion for her whereabouts and what she was actually doing that day
look I I I have to believe that this points a little more towards the end of she was involved in this I can't I can't
give her a check mark for nope this clears her you know nope she wasn't involved I I'm I'm not ready to finalize
that pencil Mark yet but I think it leans in the direction of her question will be questionable behavior and me
questioning where she actually was that day yeah I agree the second item that I wanted to get to
is that she was interrogated by detectives um and we know that she was questioned
several times uh for several hours they were also looking for physical evidence of Foul Play in the vehicle that she was
driving that day remember she was driving Kane's truck uh when she dropped Chiron off at school
um a lot of people would say that this points to her being suspicious and to be being guilty of something the problem
here is um they found nothing incriminating after all those searches and all those
times questioning her yeah which would point in her favor yeah let's give her a check mark and her favor there then
third we have she reportedly took and failed two polygraph tests right and then she denied a third one yeah this
does not look good for her at all in my opinion we heard her defend herself stating that she could not hear the
person very well that was administering the test she then said that the second test she failed because it seemed like
they were rushing her through the test that that they didn't conduct it properly but then you have a third time
where she just all out refuses to take the test this is certainly a check mark against Terry Horman yeah I agree for
the most part but again I don't know the extent of our hearing issue and we've we've heard from experts that if you
have a hearing problem this could really affect the results of a polygraph test so again I you know but it's hard to
believe what she says because she is a known liar she is a known cheater and uh I don't agree with those things this to
me and I agree with you captain and that expert is right but this points to me as
the first signs obvious signs that's told to the public of her not cooperating in the investigation and you
know I'm always very suspicious and I think we all should be of anybody that's not cooperating in an investigation yeah
I agree again not fully because yes I think you should cooperate with law enforcement I think you should tell them
any information that you know but there's a difference between them asking you questions and then them Throwing
Shade your way and I think if they're doing so I mean it's the smartest move lawyer up
um that doesn't mean it doesn't mean that you can't cooperate that doesn't mean that you can't talk with law
enforcement but you're going to do so in the presence of of your because you're going to be able to tell your story to
your lawyer and based on what you tell your lawyer they're going to know what they can what you should share with law
enforcement well and then here's the big one here's the big marker right here everybody the big turtle yeah we got a
giant red neon arrow pointing to this situation so 22 days after kyron's disappearance detectives told Kane
Horman chiron's father that his wife Terry about five months before Chiron went missing had asked a landscaper
named Rodolfo Sanchez to kill her husband so you picturing this situation thank you Mr Sanchez for coming out to
my property today I would like for you to Edge the flower beds cut the grass and roll my husband up in this rug and
dump him in a landfill and then Kane was like we have landscaper yeah so I don't know this is the this is the
piece of evidence like if somebody said to me right now like I can have a question answered I mean obviously the
you know where is Chiron that would be the main question but if I couldn't have that answered and I just needed to have
a few things answered to lead me to the truth this would be the one yeah this is
the one because and you actually brought it up and I don't like to admit when you do smart things okay but
it was something I didn't think about at all and as we've dove into it seems like
hundreds of cases now that you know it's something that you would think that I would have learned through time
but this is a big key people throw this girl under the bus all the time and yeah
she has done some shady things morally but this is the one where they go if she's capable
of trying to hire somebody to murder her husband then she's capable of kidnapping
and possibly murdering her stepson or hiring somebody to do it so but here's the problem that I have with
it and I never would have thought of it unless you came up with the idea was the
cops do not tell Kane about this until after the guy goes missing right so then when did the landscaper report this to
the cops did he report it to him five months ago or did he see something on the news and said oh my God this kid
went missing that's the lady that tried to hire me to kill her husband right and
I'm glad you opened up that door because we did speak about this and we've touched upon this in the previous
episodes there's so many different versions of this story out there that it's very
confusing and the best that I can nail it down I've thrown out a lot of junk over the last days on this case and
regarding this story but the best I can nail it down is this is how the situation worked okay
the police were not told of this murder For Hire plot until after Chiron had disappeared yes this uh he goes by Rudy
so we'll go we'll say Rudy Sanchez yeah I believe that's his nickname and he he approached the police and said
look the lady on the news that's you know involved in this family with this disappearance
um she tried to hire me to kill her husband okay well how do you know this lady Terry Orman
um well I worked for her and that was a debate that you and I had had because when you hear the word landscaper and
somebody worked for somebody you automatic automatically kind of assume that it's kind of sometime some type of
long-term uh interaction or agreement that they have um and then we have Kane who says well I
didn't even know we had a landscaper yeah so the situation is this they actually
had a fairly big property I believe it was about two and a half to three acres and it sounds to me like Kane had
decided that James James being a teenager this is Terry's biological son and Kane's stepson he's decided that
James should be responsible for the yard work for the maintenance of this property well I guess Terry decided that
this is too big of a chore for a child yes he's a teenager but he's still a child
and I think that she probably felt that this was unfair and so unbeknownst to her husband she hired this landscaper to
do a lot of the maintenance on the property she probably kept him working there you know when her husband wasn't
there right um and it was probably just as simple as that this I don't know what
this all entailed it could have been a situation where he only worked for her a handful of days or it could have been
something a little more long-term now the the way that the story goes according to Mr Sanchez is that she had
met him at a restaurant where there she was speaking to him about her husband Kane and she tells Mr
Sanchez that Cain is mentally and physically abusive to her and at some point she starts telling him
that you know Cain carries about ten thousand dollars cash on him at all times and he also has a laptop that he
walks around with you know somebody could kill him and make it look like a mugging and run off with that money
now the problem here is when when pressed further by the police Mr Sanchez does state
at no time did she ever technically offer me money to kill her husband right at no time does she say the words I will
give you ten thousand dollars if you murder my husband no he just says she kept kind of implying it she kept kind
of leading me down that road now they don't have a chance to investigate this obviously until after Chiron has
disappeared by this point she's probably Terry's probably on high alert they send
in some guy you know an undercover dude bit of a sting operation to try to talk to Terry again about this murder For
Hire plot and she basically jumps out of the situation and says I don't know what
you're talking about I want nothing to do with this right so again if if this thing went down she gets out of it
pretty easy yeah or she had nothing to do with it right I mean there's a possibility that she hired this guy she
said a couple stupid things to and he took the wrong way uh he didn't if he really felt strongly about it I think he
would have came to the police before and then we've seen multiple times with missing person cases and especially when
it's a missing kid case some weird people get involved yeah I agree well Mr Sanchez says that you know not only did
she use the uh Kane always has ten thousand dollars on him approach uh to trying to convince him to kill Kane but
she also used her sexuality and you know bringing up the fact that well not the fact but bringing up her story of Cain
being an abusive person now on on Terry's side in her defense what she would say regarding this is
that the relationship with the landscaper they're they're you know working relationship together ended when
she turned down sexual advances by Mr Sanchez and she also states that she could most times could not understand Mr
Sanchez there was a you know things that would get lost in translation let's say
well and also she possibly has bad hearing yeah and so she couldn't understand him and she believed that
there were many times that they had conversations where he could not understand her as well and I think this
piece of evidence for me if this came out or the police were notified about this five months before the kid with
went missing then I'd I'd believe it more I'm not saying that I don't believe it but I just believe it more yeah well
I wish it had come out five months before uh Kyron went missing because I have a feeling that had it we might not
be sitting here looking for Chiron at this point right and the other tough thing about this too is from the you
know from the get-go of the investigation uh Kane you know Terry's husband is adamant that she had nothing
to do with it and showed no signs of ever being capable of doing something like this
um the other thing though too I wish that somewhere somebody would be able to come out and say you
know what I saw Mr Sanchez and Terry Horman together at a restaurant I wish somebody would if that happened and
somebody spotted them um you know I wish we would have somebody saying that because to me
there's no reason for a landscaper in the person that hires him to be together at a restaurant what about the delicious
meals there's still no reason you know I worked as a landscaper for a couple years Captain nobody ever invited me to
have a lunch or dinner with them but I'm a geek so why why would that happen all
right more about this right after this quick beer break [Music] thank you [Music]
all right cheers mates we're back okay on Wednesday July 21st 2010 so this is just what about six weeks after Chiron
Horman disappeared law enforcement is putting pressure on Terry's small circle of friends this includes 43 year old DD
Spicer investigator Spicer's condominium and have interviewed people who saw Spicer on June 4th the day that Chiron
disappeared now just two days later on July 23rd detectives investigating The Disappearance of Chiron announced that
DD Spicer was doing gardening work for a Northwest Portland homeowner on June 4th
but she had abruptly left the house at about 11 30 a.m and she did not return until about an hour to 90 minutes later
another person working at the home called Spicer to come in for lunch and the homeowner called Spicer on her cell
phone but she wasn't able to reach her detectives have questioned both the homeowner and other persons who were
working at the home that day okay so we have a small circle of friends for Terry
Horman and now we have this this woman Dede Spicer who is unaccounted for for about an hour to 90 minutes during the
day that Chiron had disappeared yeah which is it's odd the problem here though is that he did go to school we do
have some eyewitnesses of seeing Terry after she left the school right but I think the big problem here
is that the we are told that she left the home around 11 30 A.M this presents a problem with Terry's
story of what was going on that day because at this time she would have been near the end of her trip of driving her
daughter around for about an hour and a half to get the kid to fall asleep okay and then shortly afterwards she's seen
at the gym with her daughter and then we have we have this little this little 10
minute five to ten minute overlap of DeDe Spicer when she first goes unaccounted for that day towards the end
of Terry's time where she's unaccounted for and then we have Dede who's gone for
about an hour to 90 minutes right but the tough thing for me is what did Terry if she took Chiron where was Kyron why
she was at the store where was Kyron when she's driving around the daughter was he injured did she hurt him
you know they searched the car there's no evidence of her driving around a dead body right this lady has to be crazy
enough to help you hide the body of your of your stepson that seems like a pretty far leap I know
that there's some crazy people out there but and we don't really know much about
her other than she's friends she's gave her some bad advice she's bought some I believe she bought some cell phones for
her so she could like talk to people without being traced which I think is kind of shady we don't know a lot about
her so to just call her like oh wow she's crazy enough to help hide this kid right but we would still like to know
where she was during this hour I definitely would like to know and again it's backing right up to the time that
Terry is gone for the day now so in her defense um she states that the the calls went to
her voicemail uh by the homeowner and by the person working on the property um because she had left her phone in her
car um the situation is this too this is a large property this is like a 38 acre
property right there's a chance you know I I I'm a little uncertain what this means when it says she abruptly left the
house at about 11 30 a.m well did she leave the property right um she could have very well have been on
the property cell phone in her car and not able to take these phone calls and I wish we had like cell phone pings to
prove whether or not that phone was at least on the property yeah and we have a situation where we don't seem to have
any communication between the two of them during this time frame yeah but that would be a smart plan hey we got a
plan and by the way don't talk to each other yeah just stick to the plan uh assume I'm going to be
where I say I'm going to be at this time you be where I've asked you to be at the
same time I'll be in the garage the following week DD Spicer uh she appeared at the at the grand jury in front of the
grand jury in response to a subpoena now during this time Captain she's asked several questions where she you know she
pulls the old Fifth Amendment movement you know she says uh you know basically doesn't answer any of the questions I
played the fifth yes she's gonna plead the fifth so she doesn't have to answer any of their questions now in early
August we have Searchers and investigators they're searching a two-mile strip of old Germantown Road uh
this is not far from the home of DD Spicer on Tuesday August 17th DD Spicer tells
People magazine that she did not leave the 38-acre uh property where she was working the day that Kyron Horman
vanished right now we have some of the people that worked there um you know as we said she was
unaccounted for during this hour to 90 minute time frame uh It is believed that her vehicle the DD Spicer's vehicle
never left the property her cell phone in if we take her at her word her cell phone in her vehicle but
we have people that have worked there have said that it's not impossible it would not have been impossible for her
to have taken another vehicle and left the property that day yeah there's something fishy about DD Spicer yeah
well let's talk about the cell phones you brought it up let's talk about the burner phones or the prepaid cell phones
how you know there's a million different things you can call them but the situation is this they were able to
prove that on it on two occasions uh at least three cell phones were purchased uh these were prepaid cell phones uh
they were paid for with cash and a fake name was used to purchase these phones um it was it's general knowledge that
one of Terry horman's friends was the purchaser uh at least one of these locations of these cell phones and I I
might not have been clear there but what but okay so let me break it down a little easier okay break it down break
it down for us on one occasion there were two two cell phones that were purchased by a person using cash in a
fake name at another location there was a single cell phone purchased using the same fake name and again with
cash I believe that they were able to link one of those purchases to one of Terry's
friends okay so here here's my thing with this burner phone little shady that you would want one if
you're Terry that you'd want a burner phone right but right but if you are a cheater
maybe you're planning on trying to hook up with somebody else maybe you wouldn't
want that monitored okay not that big of a deal oh you're just a shady person and you have bad morals but
that would be a reason then you ask your friend to buy it for you so you're not the one buying it and
then your friend uses a fake name now it's layer upon layer of shadiness right now the thing here is what we got to
call into question is we know that one of her friends did one of those purchases it's thought by law
enforcement that the other purchase is in fact part of her Circle as well because the same fake name was used in
the same method of payment was used now we do know that these cell phones exist and we know that this happened and
why because we have DD Spicer and we have Terry Horman who admit to using these phones they say that you know we
we're close friends we were in contact with each other after the investigation started we had in these are um Terry's
words that her phone had been flashed by police meaning that they took her cell phone for a portion of time and they
were able to to trace its activity right um so she says that these phones were used simply just for DeDe and her to
communicate back and forth I believe that at some point a third name came out and I want to say it was Laura or Lauren
I don't have the name in front of me I don't know how concrete that was but that's sort of thought where the third
phone would have went um but regarding remember the sexting the old text messages that we discussed
regarding uh Michael cook during those text messages at one point Terry you know for anybody that still
has a question if she had this burner phone at one point she says to Michael cook hey I have a clean phone right
uh would you prefer to communicate that way would you like to make my clean phone and him trying to continue the uh
Dirty Talk jokingly says I have a dirty phone and she doesn't really respond to that until he informs her that he was
joking because now she's like oh crap they're they're monitoring his phone right and he and she says do you think
they're monitoring your phone to which Michael says I I wouldn't think so but I don't know how that works where Terry
explains to him they would have had to physically have taken your phone for a short period of time where they would
have installed some kind of software or some form of monitoring his phone for me
with these burner phones again it goes back to even if it's as simple as I'm going through this process of an
interrogation I'm dealing with cops all the time and maybe I just want to vent and be like God this one cop he's he's
kind of a jack wagon right and this other guy's a douche canoe but you don't want to make it sound like you're bad
mouthing the cops because they're monitoring your calls I get that that's a reason but you just have your friend
go out and buy a burner phone using their name use their credit card if you have to give each other phones and
that's why you did it you know but using this fake name like I said it's layer upon layer of shadiness yeah and
regarding the questions that she had to answer in front of the grand jury that she did not DD Spicer did not willingly
answer they were pretty softball questions Captain I don't have the list in front
of me here but the thing is a lot of those questions um were things that the police would be
able to easily prove or disprove um things that don't seem to be may not be directly related to The Disappearance
of Chiron and and matter of fact if DD's not involved or Terry wasn't involved in
this then none of them would have anything to do with The Disappearance of Chiron yeah you know I think one of one
of the questions was was as simple as this you know what has your friendship and relationship been like for the past
six months with Terry Horman I don't know that you need to plead the fifth on that one and then another question of
well maybe there was some uh sexual stuff going on yeah have have you sent sent or received any emails from Terry
Horman after this date okay well plead the fifth but guess what that that again pretty easy to figure out if those
emails if that correspondence happened right so Terry the turtle does some shady things and Terry the turtle has
some shady friends and her scorecard is not looking very good for her right now on my garage scorecard here Captain but
we do have some events that took place regarding this that we should get to and we we want to make sure we mention the
first being on June 1st of 2012 Desiree Young the biological mother of Chiron filed a lawsuit against Terry claiming
that she was responsible for The Disappearance of Chiron seeking 10 million dollars in Damages now 11 months
later Desiree would drop the lawsuit saying that she didn't want the civil action suit to jeopardize is the police
investigation into her son's case then we have late 2013 a judge finalized the divorce between Kane and Terry
Horman but the couple still had to resolve the issue of who would take custody of the child that took place the
following year in 2014 the ruling would be that the the Kane would gain custody of their five-year-old daughter
yeah and Terry would be able to visit the girl under court ordered supervision in August of 2014 Terry attempted to
change her name to Claire Stella Sullivan to Turd Ferguson in court she told the judge Kyron Horman is missing
he needs to be found I love my stepson I want him home more than anything she also reminded the judge that she had not
been the the last person to see Chiron alive and her attorney could prove that now
the judge did deny her request to change her name and I think that's smart I mean
she's she's not been named a suspect but guess what when they're holding when they've when they've collected a grand
jury and they're presenting evidence to the grand jury yeah that means they're seeking to arrest and indict somebody
right on a charge but she could be harmful to other people she could be harmful to other children
and I think I think the thing here is the person that they were seeking charges on in an indictment against it's
obviously Terry Horman we have in December of 2014 uh Terry began working for a this is a care
facility for mentally ill adults um and she minded she might need to be in the facility yeah she was a health
support specialist she quit working that job in 2015. that brings us to August of
2015. where Terry Horman is charged with having stolen a handgun from her roommate she lived with a man he had a
gun safe I don't think it was a roommate though I think there were lovers and one
of his guns came up missing yes and he said you know what I I saw it in her possession she stole my firearm well and
she wasn't going by Terry to this guy I don't believe she was going by Terry she
was going by her uh maiden name right okay she ended up stealing the gun I think
right after he find found out that her stepson went missing so like they were hanging out for a long period of time
and she never brought this up yeah because she had moved by this point so this guy wasn't fully aware of this
situation and fully aware of her background or involvement in this uh right so the story goes that he found
out about this and I think questioned her and was like Hey look a lot of people online think that you had
something to do with it and then all of a sudden she steals his gun was she planning to try to get rid of this guy I
think there's only two to me unless somebody wants to try to come up with a great argument for another reason why to
me there's only two two reasons that somebody steals a gun a to sell it or B to use it to kill somebody
and not have it be traced back to you right yeah but what another thing too and I
don't know if you're going to bring this up in your notes but uh Desiree does something that I thought was super
awesome Karen's mother go ahead kyron's mother decides to go to the town that Terry moved to and start Plastering
missing person signs everywhere yes because she wanted everybody in that Community to know what kind of person uh
Terry is well what do they call those there are um there are people that have helped Desiree uh kind of
keep this Spotlight on Terry and I think I've heard them referred to as Desiree's disciples
that's not the name I would pick here's the thing I don't Turtle Hunters I I see
where one might applaud this I I do take a little issue with it um at some point somebody was placing
these missing posters around her job as well right um there's a little confusion as to why
she quit um and I what I mean by confusion is this we have the facility stating one
reason why Terry quit working there we have Terry stating another reason stating that she was in fear for her
life she didn't want to go to work she did try to put a restraining order on one of the women that was harassing her
around her job and that was putting up these posters that that was denied by the judge and that's when she quit right
um so that's more than likely the true reason why now regarding the gun charges though
um this didn't end up going to court for quite some time almost two years later one because she failed to appear in
court um and two uh they didn't end up resolving this situation and until this year the problem is Captain that the
charges she's found not guilty of having stolen this handgun really hmm that's weird
but this case is so tough for me because it all comes back to did she try to hire somebody to kill her
husband because if she didn't and that was just some weird mix-up or some weird dude
that just wanted to get involved in the story I don't think a lot of this stuff would
have been brought to light I don't think we would have had all these fishy scenarios with Terry well the thing here
is that Terry she hangs her hat on the fact that she has never been named a suspect we hear it time and time again
anytime she does an interview it's always either started with or followed up by I've never been named a suspect in
The Disappearance of Kyron Horman well good for you okay so let's talk about the the sticky situations we have the
one did she hire someone or attempt to hire someone to kill her husband was she involved in The Disappearance of her
stepson did she try to steal this gun and if so what what was she going to use it for well we have two situations the
first two where there are no charges brought up against her she's right she was not named a suspect and we have the
final one where the charges didn't stick she gets a not guilty verdict I'm gonna
call Terry Harmon the Teflon stepmom because nothing sticks to this woman all right but I think the thing here is to I
think I'm going to throw all those things out the window there's a possibility that she's guilty of one of
those actions or or more possibly all three but I'm gonna throw all those things out the window because
I don't think that there's enough evidence to to drive us to believe that she's actually
guilty of one or all those things but I think let's hone in on the Chiron disappearance
because I think the thing here is to understand this case and to understand who the most likely suspect is I think
we have to understand who Terry Horman is Terry Horman is a person that will do whatever she wants
at any cost with no regard for anybody else and when she does that and gets caught
she's going to do these things behind your back captain and when she does them and she gets caught
then she's going to lie about it and if she gets caught in her life she's going to change her story and she's
going to weasel her way out of every situation that she looks guilty and this is why I have a huge problem with Terry
and this is why I think she should be the prime suspect in The Disappearance of Kyron Horman why because her stories
keep changing everything that happened within This Woman's life every important thing that happened with this woman
leading up to his disappearance and the day that he disappeared her stories keep
changing one she's very selfish so we have a situation let's go through the first one okay we have her telling
people at her gym people that she works out with other people that go to the gym
we have them telling testifying in front of a grand jury that they were told by Terry that Cain forced Terry's son James
to go live with either his grandparents or his father but James's story let's go let's go get
this directly from from the person James's story is that he went to go live elsewhere because he could not get along
with his mother right that's a completely different story those are her words these are things she told people
that they were willing to testify to then we have the failed polygraph okay the multi two times she failed a
polygraph test now the thing that we hear most of the time is in her defense is that she is deaf in one ear and this
caused complications to those tests well I heard she was deaf in one ear and she
can't hear out of the other well the other thing that she said early on in this situation was that she failed
the first polygraph because it was taken the first week that Kyron had gone missing
and that she failed it because she was not sleeping or eating during this time because she was so upset about the
situation and she was so worried about Chiron that she could not sleep or she could not eat right yet
your own words Terry three days later within that same time frame you post on Facebook going to the gym guess what
Terry I don't go to the gym when I'm not sleeping when I'm not eating when I'm too stressed out or too worried about a
situation or even when he's feeling fine again her words and when that's good enough when that's
good enough then she changes it oh I can't hear out of my left ear okay now let's talk about questions as
to why Terry's phone was pinging off of a tower on Savvy Island when her first statements to police that
she was nowhere near Savvy Island then years later guess what she's saying now well when I was out driving the kid
around I was on Route 30 which is very close to Savvy Island no Terry you were either nowhere near
Savvy island or you were on route 30. and guess what even if you were on Route 30 maybe that explains the cell phone
pings to me but it doesn't explain to me why your story keeps changing and then the final thing that I want to bring up
right is the last time that Terry said that she saw Chiron he was by himself he was in the hallway he's walking towards
his classroom and then just three days later we have you saying that he was with a strange
man with a person that I didn't recognize right I'm sorry Terry that that is a way
of pointing the investigators in one of those other options not on Terry this points them towards some strange man
abducted this boy right and I tell you what you know we we talked about I said you know when I've
been questioned by police and they asked me something as simple as did you see a brown car drive past
I would say no I didn't see a brown car because I didn't but I'm going to tell them that I saw a blue car and I'm gonna
and I saw a black car why because I did why because guess what it's my duty as a
citizen as a citizen to tell them everything that I saw during the time frame that
they are asking me it's not up to me to decide the relevancy of the things I saw
right it's to pass on the information to law enforcement so they can determine the relevancy of what I saw and if it
means anything that could mean something to them later in their investigation guess what Terry you were probably if
the if the police and of which I have to believe that they were and detectives were following protocol they are going
to ask you very specific questions where was the last time you saw them what was
the last time you saw him who was with him did you see anybody with him right a boy a girl a man a
woman a dog a cat a python anything a turtle yes did you see anything the answer to those questions was no and
then magically three days later he's with some strange man this to me makes her the prime suspect
in this case 100 do you uh need to take a break I think I've said everything that I want
to say sure you look a little sweaty the kernel you always say I'm not going to get
heated up on this one hey the colonel showed up to play well obviously Captain they don't have enough
to bring Terry Horman up on charges of The Disappearance of Chiron right but they're still out there looking there's
still searches that are being conducted to this day and I think someday they might find that
thing that they're looking for they might find Chiron somewhere and I hope he's well
and when they do we're gonna I think we're gonna find more evidence pointing towards the guilt of Terry hormann you
know it'd be awesome if they find him one day I don't believe that's gonna happen
um not find him alive and uh as much as I don't approve of what Kane did um his parents are in a really tough spot
with life because Cain is always going to sit there and wonder what if I was just
faithful to my wife what if I never met Terry what if you know I mean what if I would have saw these signs earlier what
if I was honest with myself when I saw these signs and told more people about it what
if I wasn't so stubborn and I would have let him go live with his mother and then
the mother is going to think well why didn't I see this or what could I have done so he that he wouldn't have left uh
could I could I stay to make it work what if I saw these signs what if what if I wasn't sick in the first place to
let him go live with them and all these what ifs um that you can't change now and I
really feel for his parents and everybody that knew this wonderful kid he seemed like a wonderful kid
ball of energy and uh and I hope for his sake that we have answers one day [Music]
all right do we have a recommended reading for this week this week we are recommending women who kill profiles of
female serial killers by Carol Ann Davis she profiles 14 women who used all different methods of murder to kill
their victims each killer is the subject of a separate chapter exploring their childhood lifestyle and sexuality there
is an analysis of the murder the trial and the imprisonment of every woman the author comments on how Society May
underestimate dangerous women and what it is that can turn an ordinary woman into a killer women who kill by Carol
Ann Davis is our recommended reading but you don't have to jot that down right now because it is listed on a
recommended page at truecrime garage.com and check out all of our recommendations
there and I'm very excited about getting in the garage next week we are taking a
look at a case that has fascinated the captain for years yeah one that we have covered before but we're diving back
into so until next week be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music]

Kyron Horman /// The Suspect

Part 4 of 4

The Suspect... It's a parents worst nightmare... You send your kid off to school and you think they are safe. Once they get inside the four walls of their school nothing bad should happen. In June of 2010, 7 year old Kyron Horman was dropped off at his school. His stepmother last saw him walking to his classroom. She left when Kyron was just feet from the classroom door. When school was let out, Kyron was to be picked up from the bus stop. When the bus arrived and let the kids out, Kyron was not there. Sometime during the school day he was taken from his school. Tonight we discuss the tragic story of a missing little boy. Beer of the week - Pallet Jack by Barley Brown's Garage Grade - 4 bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode discusses Kyron Horman's disappearance and the suspicious behavior of his stepmother, Terry Horman, during the investigation.

Key points

Kyron Horman Missing Case. Kyron Horman has been missing for seven years, last seen at school.
Suspicious Behavior of Stepmother. Terry Horman's actions raise questions about her involvement in Kyron's disappearance.
Murder-for-Hire Plot Revelation. Detectives reveal Terry Horman attempted to hire a landscaper to kill her husband.
Terry's Defense. Terry claims her relationship with Mr. Sanchez was misunderstood and miscommunicated.
DD Spicer's Alibi. DD Spicer was unaccounted for during a crucial time on the day Kyron disappeared.
Lawsuit Filed. Desiree Young files a lawsuit against Terry Horman for Kyron's disappearance.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It sucks because what's going on that day?

Discussion about the busy day at school.

4:39WatchNov 30, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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