JonBenét /// Off The Record | Forensic Files

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] sasan all right so we talked at some point we were talking on
the show of diving into some big cases MH but instead of diving into the whole case just to touch on a point of the
case take one little corner one little piece one little aspect and just talk about it little nugget gotcha a little
nugget so did you bring a nugget with you to the garage yes so okay is it a frosty purple
nugget yeah it is um no so I was thinking about something I can't remember I think it was a
dream that I had uh I've been I over the Christmas break holidays I kept finding myself
midday I have this recliner that I you you set it to the your comfort zone okay and then you just you save it mhm so I
get in my chair and it's at this very odd angle it's like on the side of the TV almost
but you can still watch TV that way but if if you walked into the room and you saw my couch you'd be thinking why
aren't you on the couch MH but for some reason it's I need a new TV my TV is too
small okay for the room but so when I sit on the couch I my couch is nice but it's so big that I can lay down on it
and then I end I know I'm going to fall asleep the couch is very nice yeah so then I have this this this recliner so I
sit on the recliner but it's this odd angle but it's just me and I have a little TV TV tray and I eat my dinners
there or eat my lunch or whatever and then I normally put the tray back and I hit the button and it puts me in my
little comfort zone okay so you save it and with one button push it it moves around and now you are in Comfort Zone
which puts me to sleep so I had this dream that we were in my living room you and I
you me and a couple other people okay and I'm screaming at the top of my lungs that I have no control over the show and
you don't listen to my ideas and it is Christmas and we should be covering the John Benet ramsy case
right and you're yelling but we think the brother did it okay yeah and I'm going there's more hard to the so this
is this odd dream that I have and I'm talking to uh I I I think I can say this I won't
say the company's name but that I had a company reach out to me if I was interested in making videos for their
app okay okay and uh I was tossing out some Stu sometimes with the these meetings I I just toss out some stupid
ideas to see like how serious they are you know what I mean like I toss out a dumb idea oh I can make videos about
this dumb idea and then just see what the feedback is right once they start going yeah yeah anything you want to do
then I go okay this is not good you know what I mean is isn't that what the South
Park guys do when they're approached by other people they're like oh yeah we'll take this meeting and then they secretly
behind closed doors they agree just to amuse themselves they're going to throw out the most ridiculous dumb idea that
they have it's not even really an idea they just they just pieced it together for the purpose of making fun of this
meeting right right and then they're like but sometimes they Greenlight the project right then you're like oh we
maybe maybe we should do this idea so when we're we're talking I could I could definitely tell that the person
that was reaching out listened to our show enough right and so then I just said well what's your favorite case cuz to me
that gives me a kind of a uh a stance on how much they're into True Crime well or a stance on how much
they're into True Crime garage because full disclosure here we've taken these phone calls before and it's a lot of uh
massaging you know it's a lot of uh oh I love your show you guys are fantastic and then you through the course very
early in the convers you can figure out they've maybe listened to a 15sec clip of the show right yeah and and this
person said well I know this is mainstream and I know that this is not you know Jan Ramsey is what she said
and I was like yeah and it really got me thinking why am I still so fascinated with this case like West Memphis 3 I can
tell you why I'm fascinated I don't know the answer is that why you're still so fascinated
with Jean Benet or is it you think there's a you don't know why well no because I watched the CBS special which
was very good you recommended that to me that was a great Captain recommendation
if you want to watch it's not a documentary I I've been going back because I've been down this rabbit hole
and and hopefully you enjoy the rabbit hole that I'm going to take you down but I've been watching then interviews
about the CBs special and there are saying look this is not a documentary this is a
reinvestigation of the crime and that's what made it so neat to watch yeah and and one of the reasons why we never
covered this even though it has always been one of my favorite cases is because there's a CBS special out there that did
a really good job and if you kind of want to know what I believe go watch that special and that's going to be
pretty close you feel like they've they've built the whole thing it's fantastic there's no there no doing it
better Justice than what they did yeah I think so but I also think like that's one of the things that we approached
really early on and when we started creating the show is can we add to it you know like when you know a lot of
people are like in the beginnings hey cover OJ and OJ was really hot in the media and so then it becomes well are
you just covering it because it's hot in the media like I don't want to be that guy so then we thought okay well one of
the things with OJ was the timeline and the mountain of evidence and and I really am proud of the idea that we said
okay episode one we're focusing on the timeline was HE capable of doing the crime did he have the time the second
one let's focus on just this mountain of evidence and was there a mountain of evidence or was it fake and so we really
felt like we could bring something to the case right with the John bav Ramsey case once you think that you know the
answer and the answer was given to you by CBS then then what do you have to bring to the table nothing so that's one
of the reasons why we never covered it it was the most requested Case by far um I have an additional reason and I
think I've mentioned this before is that I think it's too big like for our format
because like when we covered West Memphis 3 yeah we thought okay cool we can do like what we did with OJ here's a
here's a chance to really look at it the way we want to look at it we can present
it under a different light look at at it under a different microscope and really
tear the thing apart the problem we ran into with West Memphis 3 was we thought three 1 hour three one and a half hour
episodes would be enough right and we figured out halfway through the third episode that there's so much more to do
here Jean Benet to me and I think I said that I think somebody could do a whole series on TV or on the radio or
podast or Internet or whatever I think you I think you that could carry you for a year I mean there's just so much stuff
out there and don't temp me cuz I will do it I mean I actually thought about this when I was diving into this I
thought this is so interesting and I was watch one of the things and we can discuss this later but one of the things
I was thinking is like we don't do a lot with our YouTube channel and one of the things I thought
was okay well I could talk true garage TV yeah I could talk about this on on the show but there's all these little
other rabbit holes I could take you down in this story because day one was try to
figure out this thing okay I kind of figure out this thing but now I got to go down this Rabbit Hole now I got to go
down another Rabbit Hole I could have done a little five minute video of each rabbit hole right I don't know if people
want to watch that though of me just sitting like talking all crazy to camera you know it's like that part with Mark
Wahlberg remember that movie where he was like the bad guy he was like dating the teenage
daughter and he's like in the door you can see him in the door um what's that peephole and he's like let me in wait
wait wait was let me out was he like the stalker or something okay yeah that was
a a long time ago what was that movie called uh all somebody's yelling at it right now yeah I can't hear you speak up
was that an MTV movie didn't MTV probably was I think him you know might still be making movies but I know they
di their Google that real quick why I uh why I start the rabbit Hall okay so so the CBS special this is how they break
it down they do all these tests but this is basically their findings the uh the ramsy come home from a Christmas party
uh John B Ramsey goes to bed then we have Burke he is still up Burke's the brother Burke is the brother we have
four people in the family we're going to just mother father Brooke Brook Burke B
and uh John B so Burke is still up he's a little bit older brother the mom says well I'm going to make you a snack here
we go it's one of the weirdest snacks this is as disgusting as putting cheese on an apple
pie they're going to put milk and pineapple that's the snack so what CBS thinks is that she makes the snack she
gets tied up whether she's talking on the phone or whatever she's doing and and I don't think the father is
around and what CBS believes is that johnan gets up out of bed sees that Burke has a snack grabs some of the
snack puts it in her mouth Burke then grabs a flashlight hits her on the back of the head she then goes to another
part of I think goes down some steps into the basement that's where she ends up passing out then Burke goes down to
see what's happening sees his sister passed out he takes uh some there there's a lot of train tracks around
there he takes a piece of the train track he pokes her in the side leaving two marks right um weird marks on her
body only two a lot of people thought that was a stun gun but I think they they they kind of proved that it could
be these train tracks could be one or the other and actually the the the um the distance between the two uh points
of that train track would be about the same as the marks left on her body right right but it's also about the same
distance as as prawns on a a taser or stun gun or whatever you want to call these these line up these make sense so
then at some point now they this is where they get a little blurry they don't go into much detail but at some
point the family goes oh [ __ ] our daughter's dead her son accidentally killed her and they stage this Breakin
scene and they stage right then they put her into another room that they called the wine Celler it was just basically
like an unfinished room of the basement a lot of the rest of the basement is finished and if you watch the CBS
special one of the best things that they ever did is they actually recreate all the
rooms so when you're going through this like investigation with them you feel like you're in the house
and you're not and and what do they find at the kitchen counter where he was having a snack they find a flashlight
that possibly could have been the weapon that hits her in the head and so their basic findings are we
think that Burke did this accidentally now I'm going to drop a bombshell that I have not been able to
find reported anywhere but this comes to me from a very credible Source I reached
out to a detective that looked and to some of this stuff because people that were involved in the
investigation people that in the FBI that were invest in involved in the FB oh my God people slow down yeah I know
I'm fired up this morning so people in the FBI that were involved in the investigation reached out to this
detective sent him some information just to look at and then had a couple phone conferences just to have
they wanted to talk out the ideas with this person okay basically like if I said hey I got this theory about John B
Ramsey like I'm doing now I'm telling you my theory and I'm not saying that I'm right I'm just saying listen to what
I'm saying and tell me where I'm wrong right I'm asking for it hear me now believe me later stab you know well I'm
not going to say stab holes in my story maybe that's bad poke holes in my story so this Source says and I cannot find
proof of this anywhere that the Ramsay called their lord ERS before they called 9111 and if that is true then wow
something weird is going on yeah what what would be the reason for you to call your
lawyer before you call 911 that's pretty strange to me let me let me go I'll take my first poke here if I
were the parents of an abducted child and there seems to be a ransom note left I could see a situation where I might
consider calling an attorney first because of the thought of not involving the police and paying the ransom to get
right my child back so I'll say that in their defense well right but also if you
but also it states if you contact police and all that stuff right you're done right your child's done did here's one
question I have for you and we might not be able to answer this here and now mhm
but kind of just to poke holes in my my defense of the Ramsay there would be I know that a ransom amount was
stated I can't recall were there instructions left on how to deliver that Ransom money uh it's a long note and I I
believe at some point it's we're going to contact you that's right you're right um again I have a lot of these thoughts
and ideas just flowing through my head I actually started trying to write down notes so I could bring in some notes for
this conversation and it got to the point where I'm like I just got to hope that I stay on the right track okay so
my point is that CBS says that the brother accidentally killed his sister and that the Ramsay
then covered it up yep we've lost one child why should we lose another right and that has been the story and when all
this new stuff came out when the CBS special came out and then uh Dr Phil actually interviewed Burke and
um and look it's easy to make fun of him when you watch the interview with Dr Phil and the first time I watched it I
remember thinking this is really creepy he's smiling the whole time um then I watched several reports
that say look this is not a smile these are people their behavior Specialists that say this is not a smile this is
somebody that's very uncomfortable and is in talking about something that is very uncomfortable to them this is also
traumatic somebody that's a very private individual and this face he's making even though it seems as a smile that you
can actually see stress points in his face and I went back and watched this interview and with those
eyes doesn't seem so creepy to me anymore I actually feel really bad for him and and I actually see this thing
that um that Dave Ram is it Dave Ramsey John Ramsey whatever the father's name is John is John Ramsey yeah Dave Dave
Ramsey is a is a financial specialist yeah you should listen to Dave Ramsey once in a while I'm I'm a musician I
just bought 3,000 pcks the easiest way to remember it is John Ramsay because she was named it's a rare situation
where a daughter's named after a father so John John Benet John Ben however you want to say it Ramsay that's where her
name comes from yeah and what's so interesting in that interview and somebody's yelling at me right now
Captain get to the Goddamn point I'm getting there what was interesting that interview was you know he's smiling half
smiling and whatever this nervous let's say wincing is that the right word like it's an uncomfortable look yeah they're
going what do you think happened and he's going I think just like a pedophile like
maybe some that that we uh that that that they met at a one of these pageants like he
doesn't know he's just like going off on like what other people might think uhhuh
right and you can almost tell that he like I haven't looked into it cuz I don't want to and but John Ramsey said
at one point our daughter's dead and we so much didn't want this to ruin our son's
life and and he was like but it did and then you start thinking you are the brother and one of four people in a
house if there wasn't an intruder there's only three people left in the house of the most famous case in the
world in history there is not a more famous case I mean God what a what a life that kid
had at after that right okay so that's their Theory and I watched the special and I went you know this makes a lot of
sense called a couple of my buddies to talk about it they watch the special yeah I agree with the special okay that
the special came out a few years ago right pretty early on when we started the show two three years ago y so that's
been my viewpoint on it yeah it's probably the brother people would ask me what do you think about the John B
Ramsey case and I'd literally just say or ask did you watch CBS special yes I did I kind of believe what they believe
we don't need to go into it any further I haven't had any good conversations about John Bay Ramsey since that
special so then RP brains dumb monkey brains right we were supposed to let the evidence speak for
itself the evidence will tell us the truth now I'm not saying that when they made this documentary did they are they
just wrong I think they did the investigation the way they wanted to and and I think sometimes these
documentaries then omit certain facts or certain pieces of EV evidence so here here I just want to go over two pieces
with you so as I'm contemplating why is John B Ramsay's case so interesting to me
still that I will watch a documentary after I already think I know the answer the girl on the phone that I asked that
said to is yeah because you think you know the answer but there's no definitive you're correct mhm and I
thought well maybe that's it but then I so I started actually I went the opposite way here's my theory
let me disprove my theory Brooke's not the Killer Burke why you keep calling him Brooke
Burke is not the killer okay so my theory is that he is the killer he accidentally hit his um
sister in the head with his flashlight then the parents covered up they wrote this weird Ransom note it looks by all
accounts that the mom wrote The Ransom note like handwriting analysis have said pretty much definitive we think she
wrote the note I yeah I've heard conflicting stories on that I've heard I've heard reports that we can confirm
she wrote the note but what I have seen the most is that we cannot rule her out right but they ruled out John yes now
but the wording is interesting because a lot of people have suggested the words come from John and maybe she's writing
this why he tells it while he's assisting or advising into what should be put on paper so I'm just going to
throw the out and this was this was to yell at my PE brain so if you're thinking right now that hey I I agree
with the captain I agree with the CBS most likely it was an accident he didn't mean to kill her I mean a couple
I think a few weeks before this happened he hit her in the face with a golf club
mhm now I'm no I'm no doctor but that could kill somebody so then I that's also what made
me believe that hey this kid is he's just so young that he doesn't really understand
the his actions are going to have possibly a deathly consequence okay so I've set it up
enough I [ __ ] it around enough but let's start with these polygraph test that's the first thing I'm going to
throw out mhm so the first polygraph test that they took was within weeks right now they didn't actually sit down
to have a proper interrogation or a proper um questioning session I believe for 4
months well and immediately after the discovery of their daughter they're the ramies are in the process of trying to
leave the state yeah so I mean not only are they having a hard time questioning the
family to they're having a hard time keeping them at Bay you know trying to keep them at home so they can question
them very fishy and and obviously everybody listening to this show is well educated enough in these types of
stories to know that you got to clear the family first before you can move on and and cast a wider net in your
investigation yeah and for whatever reason the Ramsay's had this thought where they
go it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and we don't have to prove our
innocence to you for whatever reason that's the dumbass standpoint that these people took and it was stupid and it
caused problems with the investigation is probably one of the main reasons we don't have an answer to this crime is
because on how Shifty and Shady some of their actions were questionable actions and so but let's go to this polygraph so
they take a polygraph test it comes back inconclusive so they were asking for some polygraph test and and the wife was
saying no the the husband was saying no and but this was also because their doctors were saying and and lawyers and
other people were saying look you just lost your daughter right you should not take these
test these don't end up well when you have this much emotion here's the two results you're going to get you're
either going to get deceptive or you're going to get inconclusive you'll never get the you
pass this with flying colors we think that you're telling the truth that is what all of her advisor say so they
don't take the test when they do take the test they get inconclusive oh see I told you that's what my doctor said good
thing we got an inclusive instead of inconclusive instead of a deceptive case right so then the guy that admin the
test to him says I you know I really think they should take another test we could get more answers out of this I
recommend this guy REM recommends a different guy this guy was basically the head of of the liar detector the
polygraph unit for the FBI okay at one point he was the master the number one guy possibly in the world on polygraphs
and he suggested that they take tests with them so they said at some point as they're being more cooperative and now
once I think the ramsy realized it doesn't matter what we say we have to prove we're innocent M we can't do this
whole thing where hey don't blame us let's find the real killer we have to prove to everybody that we're not right
because obviously we have to go on the offensive now right because the media is eating this up and they're going to eat
Us Alive and the cops aren't coming to our defense at all and and they're the cops aren't trying to roll them out look
the cops eventually had to issue apologies to the Rams for stuff that they did because they were so singular
focused on them being The Killers so anyways they say we're going to take the polygraph test the guy that
administers the test says yeah we're not doing one I'm going to interview you in
a series over a month long technically equaling three test each one of the Ramsay passed all three
tests mhm now including Burke or just the parents okay John and pany but let me be clear on this that
from the records that I found and and you can look I try to eat this up either way uh are you respon John are you
responsible for the murder of your daughter no that does not mean that CBS is not
correct mhm he wasn't responsible do you know who murdered your daughter no I don't well still CBS is not
wrong because you might not view um what Burke did as murder mhm it was accidental but once they start
saying to you do you know who was responsible for her death do you know who who was involved mhm when he says no
I don't know who was involved I don't know who's responsible for her Murder by passing that by the wife
passing that three times with the most highly trained the most knowledgeable most
knowled most knowledgeable person on polygraph test in the country three times now the question becomes yes I
understand that we don't let lie detector test results into the court of law we we only have that on mory's show
or Jerry Springer but that's where you have to weigh that evidence mhm if you believe that they're
correct then you have to believe that cbs's idea or their theory is wrong but if you believe that these tests have
any weight they passed them three times never failing yes the first test was inconclusive that's not a
fail so that really got me thinking you can't dup if it was just one of them that passed the test one time ah duped
it three test both of of them pass mhm to me I kept on thinking you can't dismiss that I
understand that I can't argue that in court but I can't dismiss that to me that's a that's a factual piece of
evidence now what the hell happened MH so then that got me thinking okay so do do I hold weight to
this and and my answer is yes now people out there could say no no no it means nothing you can't prove that in court
those tests are stupid you shouldn't I got an email a couple weeks ago saying that I shouldn't put so much
weight into these polygraph tests okay we we get those all the time and sometimes we're not putting any weight
into them at all they're just simply part of the real life investigation and the story that we're covering sometimes
we just tell you the result we don't tell you that we agree with it right or that or that we even agree with
polygraph test at all you know I had some someone come after me pretty tough on a story we did recently where we
referenced that there were polygraph tests given and here look here's one thing that I want to throw out there
that I I think got lost in the shuffle because we do have we do have people that will will stop by the garage and
listen to a show or listen to a couple of shows so they don't know everything that we've discussed on this long
journey that we've been doing for years now and but one thing we pointed out very clearly along the way is we don't
put a lot of weight in these polygraph test furthermore and this is kind of specific to what we're discussing here
you know an individual that we've talked about a lot John Douglas retired FBI agent very famous man who we agree with
sometimes and disagree with at other times but regardless I respect John Douglas immensely he's a golden god
and and oh come on we've talked about him we you know how much money we owe that guy yeah for how much we've talked
about or he owes us we've sent we've sent listeners to watch things he's been involved in I'm sure he got paid for
those projects well now that I think about it he's made more money than we have so he owes us money yeah well I
mean we're doing free advertisements for you my friend he's getting paid from the
Mind Hunter show you know and um they haven't paid us S no and we we talk about it a lot so much to the point
where I've got some emails that are like are you guys do you guys work for Netflix are you guys like we we hope to
silent promote you know are you some kind of secret promoters of of M Hunter can you imagine if they ask us to be on
the show can you guys be local R radio DJs hey this is the captain coming to you on the 405 but I I do want to point
out something with in a statement that Douglas gave and I think it may have been specific to
this case if not it definitely applies to the Jean Benet Ramsey case is he says regarding polygraph tests that they can
be in his opinion they can be a valuable investigative tool okay keep in mind pay
attention to his words valuable investigative tool meaning they're only good for the investigators they don't
work as you discussed in a court of law obviously right now he's he's also pointed out several times that when you
have a when the murder victim is let's say a a daughter son or a wife or a husband if
you are going to polygraph the the immediate family members it's a very difficult science
and I'm putting air quotes there when I say science but he says that you can get
false positives when you question a husband or a wife or a mother or a father because you know you have certain
emotions certain thoughts and it could be that even though the husband of a murdered woman let's say murdered spouse
even if he's completely innocent the polygraph May register false positives because he feels some level of guilt
somewhere inside but yet had nothing to do with the murder you know what I mean like as a mother we're supposed to
protect our children as a father we're supposed to protect our children you know you're supposed to protect your
loved ones and when one of them is murdered es especially in your home inside the walls of your home yeah
that person may be holding a lot of guilt going we've talked to these people before Captain where they go I just wish
I could have done something differently I just wonder if I was a better mother if this wouldn't have happened I just
wonder if I was a better husband would this not have happened and these are innocent people these are people that
didn't hurt anybody so that one thing to keep in mind regarding this and and I think it works here specifically in this
case uh fear 1996 is that right oh yeah yeah fear Mark Walberg there you go okay
so oddly I'm thinking about this and I I just I just go to Google because I wanted to make
sure John Benet named after John MH paty Ramsay her name was John B Patricia ramsy
right that was her name yes John Benet Patricia Ramsay so named after not only her father but
mother right and so again this is like you're going to name your kid after yourself and you're going to love your
kid and you're going to be all about your kid but then you're you're just going to let your other kid kill your
kid I and that's what I believe for so long and now now what I'm telling you is there's there's evidence what do you
hold weight to that polygraph or you don't now I want to get back to when CBS came out and did this Burke
Ramsey sued CBS now I heard from a lot of people and here here's what's funny I was looking this up a couple days ago
couldn't find anything about the lawsuit right okay so then I talked to a lawyer
friend he said oh well of course see what Ramsay will do is he'll file the lawsuit
when it's hot in the media and then all you'll remember is that he did file a lawsuit he'll he'll drop the law suit
later CU he won't win and he doesn't want to have to testify in court right he doesn't want to have to do cross
examination but the Public's perception is he fought this right but check this out they settled oh they final
settlement amount was not disclosed right but it was filed in Michigan was seeking no less than $250 million in
compensation damages no less they probably settled for 500 million in punitive damages now here's what's
interesting though a lot of people said that CBS is like thank you thank you for um suing us thanks for
suing us because now we get a question you looks like they didn't do that right right well it would be if they if it
would have went to court right because it it varies depending on where you are but in some areas if you sue someone for
slander or for defamation of character you then have to prove that that person you know tarnished your
reputation that they were wrong in their statements and that can be difficult to
do especially in this situ I don't know man I I um I I'm going to be honest with you this
case fascinates me incredibly but it frustrates me equal parts because I I can be swayed I can be
swayed fairly quickly to either side of the fence here was it an intruder or was
it somebody inside the home it there's evidence to suggest both it's really very tricky I think
that I've always felt that the answer lies in that Ransom note or whatever you want to call that letter um I've always
felt that that the answer is there and and I know this is going to sound like a dumb statement um we you and I were
talking about uh Tony Romo and dumb statements who who we love we love Tony Romo hey Tony give us a call yeah
Anthony Anthony Romo give us a call give us a call I mean if he's not the best sports announcer he's the best in his
age group I'll give him that well if right that's what I'm saying if he's not the best he will currently right now
it's only because somebody's been doing this 20 years longer than him yeah there's nobody out that and sorry
Cowboys but you should have kept them around a little bit longer well I don't know about that but he said one hell of
a quarterback he doesn't get the just doe for for his uh football IQ and you're seeing it firsthand now he said
something when calling one of the playoff games this year he said something like and that only catches up
to you once it catches up to you and and Jim Nance Chuckles a bit and and Romo I
think realizes the absurdity of that statement he goes yeah go ahead and write that one down yeah write that one
down so so here's an absurd statement from the extra crispy Colonel here um with that Ransom note it's always boiled
down to to me very simply if you could prove who wrote that damn note you know who killed or knows what happened and I
and I know that's an absurd statement that's an obvious statement I'm going to make you look like a fool but go ahead
and write that down well now time to make you look like a fool and I didn't want to do this but you made me do it
all right I pushed I pushed your hand fored your hand if you figure out who wrote The Ransom note you figure out who
killed her how about you get the DNA that's underneath her fingernails oh yeah yeah so here's the
other problem too in this case we talk about DNA a lot we talk about this possible saliva DNA that was
on her underwear right that's the majority when they talk about DNA mhm well there's also touch DNA that was
on the elastic of the underwear I've also heard some heard and read some FBI agents and even
local investigators who almost kind of it seems like they're suggesting there might have been more than what's
reported yeah so what I was reading more DNA I mean yeah so what I was reading this is what I find interesting okay A
little touch DNA possible saliva touch DNA on the elastic okay whatever who cares about that I don't care little s
of DNA on the on on the underwear don't care about that either oh it probably came from some worker when they're
having the it came from some worker that's what the CBS said like a technician somebody
working on the body no somebody that manufactured the underwear oh oh yeah that's what they stated CBS stated
listen to me listen when I'm talking to you if you you want to talk about somebody that
believed in this documentary mhm right now tell me this ain't a farce they said well it's touch DNA they
have experts on that I've heard detectives tell me that that person is a criminal
genius what's the Asian man um that they had on on on the CBS special oh uh Dr Lee Dr Lee I believe it was Dr
Lee that said oh you know it could have came from a a factory worker that was making the
underwear right mhm use a [ __ ] do you like is it Henry Lee Dr Henry Le do you like him or not I I have
a mixed bag bag with him here's my thing when somebody that I think has a brain tells me this is a guy is a criminal
he's a criminal um genius genius well not a criminal genius but he would be like a crime
scene analyst genius and okay this is where it frustrates the [ __ ] out of me what I was
reading and I don't think it was wrong because it was coming from a lawyer that said the DNA under that little girl's
fingers matched the DNA that was on her underwear now you're going to tell me that the factory worker that made her
panties somehow got his DNA under her [ __ ] fingernails yeah but ar ar aren't they saying that there was more
than one kind of DNA found on the underwear that's what I think their their statement
was May maybe so but what what I was reading was the DNA on the underwear matched the DNA underneath the guy damn
[ __ ] fingernails now you make a goddamn documentary or this what here's what's so frustrating about this case is
that you hear about all this [ __ ] and then all this other [ __ ] gets lost in the the shuffle and and and I I'm not
mad at maybe them for doing it but it's like I watch this documentary I don't think I heard one time about some
goddamn DNA underneath somebody's goddamn fingernails if your brother hit you in
the head with a with a flashlight and then there was a struggle and you clawed the [ __ ] out of that [ __ ] then
guess whose DNA is going to be underneath your fingernails so the fact that this little
girl has DNA underneath her fingernails we don't need to figure out who wrote the goddamn note we don't need to have
to figure out anything if they have evidence that this girl put up a fight with somebody and has their evidence under
their fingernails that's all we have to figure out but obviously they can't well it hasn't matched anybody it
didn't match anybody in the family so and I and I believe from what I was reading is a couple of the suspects that
we that people have talked about in the public some of the more Pro uh predominant ones that have been a part
of them speculation that they have been tested and that didn't match right and then so then my question is is do we
know for a fact that I mean this this is DNA evidence under multiple fingernails
mhm of a male mhm like and they're pretty for sure that it's from when she was being attacked and it's like well if
it matches one or or the only source of DNA on the underwear you would think 100% it comes from the attack but my my
my Counterpoint would be if you can't find a match for the DNA then the notes a good second place to start no no no no
and I and and my anger isn't directed towards you or really towards anybody it's just the idea that you have these
cases sometimes where it's like the nonsense that is talked about in these documentaries and the nonsense that
people bring up uh when they're talking about these cases it's just baffles me you know I mean but that you there you
got to blame CBS so if you think that and and I'm not sure that this is exactly what you're saying but if you
think that they chose what what to include and what not to include as far as evidence goes in their
investigative storytelling of this of this case or their investigation of this case then you have to blame CBS for
going okay well we need to sell this thing the only way that it sells is that we claim we have solved it or we have
the the new solution you know because frankly not very often do people want to walk watch a documentary of something
that's already been documented time and time again so right but okay it's called
True Crime Let's Be True Crime people let's not be no I know so that's false that's where my [ __ ] hey thanks for
settling you dumb [ __ ] you know yeah we're glad that he we glad that he's suing us so so we could uh we can
cross-examine him unless but you also have to factor there's a lot of things that go into you know so one a place
that I used to work and I I can't really discuss what it was that you know the job that I actually had was it a foreign
faction yes it was um but regardless there were multiple lawsuits that occurred um during my time
working and I shouldn't say with this particular organization but around this particular
organization and one thing I learned from some of the behind the scenes stuff is there's a lot involved in in settling
one of these lawsuits because you know there could there was one specific instance where I was angry at the person
suing this group because I knew that their story their claims were complete [ __ ] and for a while I kind of lost
some respect for this organization because they settled with this guy they they they paid they paid this douche
canoe some money yeah and it was a decent amount of money now learning more about it
later I learned that they the organization figured out that even though they felt this guy was full of it
and that they were completely in the right and that they would win at court right they figured out that hey our
legal council and the length of this investigation and trial and and putting together our
defense it would be significantly cheaper to just pay the guy to go away than to than to even defend ourselves
right so who know like I mean when we see I I'm with you I I don't love that CBS settled here but but again
I mean if Burke is innocent then then I don't really care I mean that would sway
me completely the opposite way but if CBS settled with him and it was for you know you're saying it's like what $750
million total is what it sounds like he was going with that's my public school math there so if I'm wrong take it easy
on me um what what if they just gave him 7.5 million what if they gave him $500,000 and he's like cool I'll go away
yeah you know what I mean so it's you have to it's it's tough to say hey to to agree with the settlement as
far as CBS goes and here's what but here's what here's just because we don't know the details of of or the structure
of such right but here's what pisses me off though is all these people that are that they talk a big game about how they
want something solved and then you just omit you omit information you omit facts you omit evidence and act like as
if it doesn't exist guess what I want the person responsible for this I want to know the
answer if it's Burke it's Burke right but I I'm not going to Omit any evidence to go there now look again with
the polygraph do whatever you want with it you can tell me that it's doesn't matter
to you and you don't care okay fine then you can still believe Burke did it okay
now go to the next step that I just told you about the DNA doesn't match him doesn't match his father it's an unknown
male now if we could come up with a logical reason how she had that DNA underneath
her fingernails other than defending herself from an attack okay and also why bind the hands
why bind hands well I guess if those hands are attacking you you might bind those
hands right but so are you leaning towards the I'm just saying I'm really interest I'm way
more interested in this case than I've ever been before and but I don't want to be I don't want to be
like I think a lot of people that make up their own goddamn story in their own end result and they try to get there you
know just like is it you know is it possible that she was poked with part of the train
track and it had nothing to do with Burke at all it's possible or did it have nothing to do with the actual
attack that led to her death right well she poked earlier with that or or sometime when they were moving the body
did they hit I mean there's when you see the reenactment of the CBS special you see train track pieces everywhere did
they set her down for a second and then her body gets up all I'm saying is I'm way more interested in this case than I
ever been but as I go through it you have to you have to let the evidence take you not not just your own
thing and like I said I went into it going I think this was an accident I think he hit her in the head
accidentally and then the the parents covered up she she would have had to have been
strangled in some manner afterwards like so it wasn't the the blow to the head that killed her yeah
but again I think logically you could go what if and this is where this is this to me
gets into crazy talk what if your kid is struggling you choke her to me it doesn't matter even if if
your kid is struggling call the 911 right I was going to say isn't that the stance we took in the the meline McCain
McAn case right is that if there was some type of accident these adults would have sought
medical attention for their child and you know even even Burke hitting her in the head with something heavy duty you
could it's still an accident you know it's it's you still seek medical attention right you don't strangled the
kid um but yeah this is a very difficult one for me because of the other thing too with with the investigators and
people that worked on this case you have uh John Douglas who he worked on it many
years after the fact so take that with a grain of salt but he he said in his opinion John Ramsay didn't kill um Jean
Benet nobody in the house that night killed Jean Benet that's his opinion yeah and respect his many of his
opinions um and I I I'll I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one but then you have other individuals like I
think the first responding Officer says hey I walked into a house and it was the
Rams and they already had they already had people over there was people over in the house when I first walked in and I
felt like I was walking into a hostile environment and it wasn't because it was hostile because their child was missing
it was almost confrontational that they were putting up a defense immediately right when and that that's the vibe that
that Officer says that she had from from that uh very early on in the stages of the investigation two completely
different opinions on this case do do you ever do you think that it will ever be
solved yeah and well that's what I was saying I'm I'm going to you know in what time I have I'm going to try to go down
these these different rabbit holes and get to a better clear understanding in my head but you know when you have
investigators they they take these tests they knew that it eliminated anybody in
the house that night they knew that like within 2 weeks and they never presented
that to the media I think it took them s months to present that to the media it's
almost like they were fixated on there's something fishy here not saying there's
not something fishy there but there's something fishy there and um well that's that's what a lot of people
have said throughout the years was that the Ramsay did not cooperate with the investigation immediately and therefore
the investigators at the time became they didn't just become fixated on the ramies because they were
uncooperative they almost became disgruntled against the ramsy almost like oh you're picking a fight with us
well we can pick a fight back you know we can we we accept your challenge and now we're looking at you and well and
their pomp is arrogance and I really think it stems from John I mean I don't give a [ __ ] I mean I think that's what
it was I think it's I have some money you don't and I think the media is going to come at me and so I'm going to start
going against you right away um I think they knew how some of this was going to play out I also think that you if you're
tossing your daughter that young into pageants and stuff you're kind of worried about like the keeping up with
the Jones's [ __ ] and I'm sure there's a part of them that really like the fact that this was a very popular
case like yeah we're getting like [ __ ] on but it's kind of awesome how many interviews people want to do with us
it's kind of awesome you know cuz we're but it it affects Jon's business greatly
well right but the bigger the case gets the bigger the dollars get for interviews and so hey your business is
going shitty but hey we'll pay you a couple million to do an interview with us you know what I
mean right but I mean he had a very successful company no I understand that but what I'm saying is
that once that started affecting his business you have this thing now to fall back on mhm oh yeah it's affecting my
business but guess what my daughter's murder case is the biggest case in the history of cases I will say this and the
key word in this statement is if if the Boulder Police Department if the local investigators did have information or
test results that would should lead them to believe that no one inside that home
was responsible for the death of John B Ramsey not releasing that to the public is a big misstep in your
investigation because there may have been someone in the public that could have helped in in the form of a tip in
the form of some information something they saw something they heard someone that they spoke to it could have been
the tip that solve this thing I'll go I'll go on further to say that one thing that I think is interesting all the
times that this case has been looked at by so many different people and in cbs's
defense some of that is they're investigating this from an outsider's perspective uh they may not have had
certain things at their fingertips no no no no no this was a reinvestigation some of the people that
were involved in the special were some of the original investigators on the case no I I understand that but what
access do they have to all of the information that was collected at the time is is what I question and the thing
here is I believe if it were an intruder if someone went into that home and killed that poor little girl I think
that there might be the the information there might be something in that case File that could point you to that person
if it were an intruder I would be surprised if if the name or if some bit of information is not in that case File
that would lead you to that per [Music] [Applause]

JonBenét /// Off The Record Episode: 39 Nic and the Captain discuss: JonBenét Ramsey Case. www.truecrimegarage.com #truecrime #crime #truecrimepodcast # podcast #jonbenetramsey #jonbenet

Brief Summary

The episode discusses theories surrounding the John Benet Ramsey case and the implications of a CBS special on her brother's involvement.

Key points

The Odd Recliner Dream. A dream reveals frustrations about control over the show.
JonBenét Ramsey Case Fascination. Exploring why the JonBenét Ramsey case continues to captivate.
Controversial Ramsay Decision. Questioning the Ramsay family's choice to call a lawyer first.
The Inconclusive Polygraph Tests. The Ramsays take polygraph tests that come back inconclusive, raising questions about their innocence.
The DNA Under Her Fingernails. DNA found under JonBenét's fingernails raises questions about the struggle she faced during the attack.
The Role of CBS in True Crime. The discussion centers on how CBS shapes narratives in true crime documentaries, often prioritizing sensationalism over truth.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Why am I still so fascinated with this case?

Reflecting on the ongoing interest in the JonBenét Ramsey case.

5:20WatchAug 26, 2024

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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