Kyron Horman /// The Suspect /// 151 | Forensic Files

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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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around grab a chair be a dork be a geek let's talk some true [Music] crime as we sit here today Captain young Kiren
Horman he has been missing for seven years he's been missing since that last day that he was seen at his school on a
Friday June 4th 2010 last spotted by his stepmother who said that she saw him walking to his
classroom he's reported missing and now we're left here Captain wondering what happened to this little boy really when
you when you narrow it down there are three options right we have option A kir the little boy left left the school on
his own wandered off somewhere there was yeah eight access points in and out of this school building he was spotted near
one of those at the around the last time that he was seen um we also have option
b that he was taken by a total stranger and option C that somebody within his inner circle is responsible
for why he disappeared well the search effort was huge yeah and it happened quickly and so it seems like option A
doesn't make a lot of sense I think we would have found him by now and even if he left the school and an accident
happened I think we would have found his body by now yeah because we have a situation like you said very quickly
after he went missing within seven or eight hours the searches the Searchers are out and the initial search lasted
over 10 days and was regarded as one of the largest in the state's history uh with more than 1300 people from Oregon
Washington and Northern California looking for the boy uh they checked a 2-mile radius around the skyline school
that he attended and also parts of Savi Island we both agree that theory a with Kiren just leaving doesn't make a lot of
sense but Theory B somebody grabbing him could be a good possibility yeah well and we have this situation here Captain
which it it sucks I mean to to sum it up in into one big word it sucks because what's going on that day it's a very
very busy day at that school uh regarded by most the teachers as the busiest day
of their school year yeah it's their science fair in the morning and then we have a talent show in the afternoon and
guess what if you are some terrible person and you're looking to grab a kid well there's a big sign out in front of
the school that says on this date we're having a science fair from this hour to this hour and we're having a talent show
from this hour to this hour the school is basically open somewhat open to the public I mean they're not expecting
random people to just walk in the school but they have the school open at this time open early so that parents and
students can tour the science fair yeah and I'd argue that maybe it's not some random person because yeah they're
they're advertising that there's this science fair but you don't know how heavily chaperon this is going to be mhm
um but yeah it is up open to the public the other thing too is if you had any information about the students and about
the school you'd also know that the school wasn't under surveillance MH so that gives you a opportune window yes
and the thing here is though while this is a possible scenario it seems it does seem a little unlikely to me and and
I'll tell you why okay he's he's seven we have a seven-year-old boy we have no evidence leading us down this road we
have nobody saying you know I saw Kiren with some strange person or I or he was heard yelling and screaming because
somebody grabbed him and pulled them into his vehicle yeah you would think that this would be a safe place for
Kiren so if somebody did grab him that he would feel safe enough to be able to scream for help uh so the likelihood
that there was all these eyewitnesses that didn't see Kyon leaving with some strange person it's kind of weird yeah
and I and I know there's people out there listening that are going you know he's only seven and yes we've covered
cases before and so it is a possibility that he could have been L to somebody's vehicle that he got into the vehicle
willingly he is only seven um that is somewhat of a possibility but I think the obvious possibility and most likely
possibility here and it seemed to be what the police really honed in on early into the investigation and search for
Kiren is that somebody within his inner circle was involved in this disappearance well with all these
allegations and weird speculations about the stepmother it's kind of clear that we need to dive into her as a possible
suspect I agree and I think we what we should do is just kind of point out the different suspicious behaviors along the
way and kind of dive into those as they as we go through our list now just to be
clear she has never been named a suspect uh but she has never been cleared as well correct so as we said the police
became suspicious when they searched uh Terry horman's cellular phone records and it was revealed that she wasn't
where she said she was the morning that Kiren disappeared this is what led to the whole Savi Island thing which is
about 5 6 miles from Kiron school this led to a massive search of the island for the missing boy but again no trace
of Kiren and with this piece of evidence it made me wonder was it just a area that you would drive on to and you
wouldn't know but our listeners have reached out and said hey if you know that area and you know Savi Island that
once you're on it you know you're on the island yeah yeah and just to be clear it's a River Island but it is a rather
large uh piece of land uh but like you said and and like we speculated in episode one it would be tough to end up
on an island entally and not be able to recall that you were there now Terry's statements the Stepmom statements to
police indicate that after leaving the school at 8:45 a.m. the day that Kiren went missing she ran errands at a local
grocery store this is the Fred Meyer store until about 10:10 a.m. and then from 10:10 a.m. to 11:39 a.m. she states
that she drove her daughter around town in in an attempt to use the motion of the vehicle to soothe the toddler's
earache um Terry then went to a local gym at approximately 1139 a.m. and she says that she worked
out that day until about 12:40 p.m. by 1:21 she had arrived home some other information that we kind of asked for
from you guys was is it odd to drive a kid around that long it's kind of half and half some people said Ah that's not
that long especially if the kid is sick maybe you drive around longer and then the other half would say that is way too
long um so where was was she driving around we're not really for sure but what is odd about this and what so many
listeners pointed out was your kid is sick you drive your kid around for an hour and a half and then you decide to
take the kid to the gym with you right seems like your if your kid is that sick that you're skipping the gym and just
head in home yeah so I I love that response that we got from the listeners because that's a very big question mark
you don't drive that kid around for an hour and a half and then put her in the the daycare center at the gym to be
amongst other kids if this kid was so uncomfortable and so sick and you were truly worried trying to soothe this sick
child you're taking that child home after you after you get her to fall asleep or like other listeners pointed
out you would continue driving around so that the child would sleep as long as possible this obvious obviously Captain
leaves us with quite a window of time where something could have happened where she could have been not where she
said she was and then there's also a little dispute about actually how long she was at the gym we know that she was
at the gym at 1139 because she has to check in the problem is we have other people saying I did see her at the gym
but I don't I don't remember seeing her for an hour I don't remember seeing her after noon uh where she says that she
was there till 12:40 p.m. this is another window of time where something could have happened yeah it's weird with
the eyewitness accounts of her being at the grocery store and the eyewitness accounts of saying that she was at the
gym again makes me wonder is she trying to establish a alibi MH well and I'll tell you what here Captain I think for
this one if you want to keep score at home or you're keeping score in your garage regarding Terry's involvement in
kyon's disappearance I think for the for this for her whereabouts and what she was actually doing that
day look I I I have to believe that this points a little more towards the end of
she was involved in this I can't I can't give her a check mark for nope this clears her you know nope she wasn't
involved I I'm I'm not ready to finalize that pencil Mark yet but I think it leans in the direction of her
questionable questionable behavior and me questioning where she actually was that day yeah I agree the second item
that I wanted to get to is that she was interrogated by detectives um and we know that she was questioned several
times uh for several hours they were also looking for physical evidence of Foul Play in the vehicle that she was
driving that day remember she was driving Kane's truck uh when she dropped kirn off at school um a lot of people
would say that this points to her being suspicious and to being being guil of something the problem here is um they
found nothing incriminating after all those searches and all those times questioning her yeah
which would point in her favor yeah let's give her a check mark in her favor there then third we have she reportedly
took and failed two polygraph test right and then she denied a third one yeah this does not look good for her at all
in my opinion we heard her defend herself stating that she could not hear the person very well that was
administering the test uh she then said that the second test she failed because it seemed like they were rushing her
through the test that that they didn't conduct it properly but then you have a third time where she just all out
refuses to take the test this is certainly a check mark against Terry Horman yeah I agree for the most part
but again I don't know the extent of her hearing issue and we've we've heard from
experts that if you have a hearing problem this could really affect the results of a
polygraph test so again I you know but it's hard to believe what she says because she is a known liar she is a
known cheater and uh I don't agree with those things this to me and I agree with
you Captain and the expert is right but this points to me as the first signs obvious signs that's told to the public
of her not cooperating in the investigation and you know I'm always very suspicious and I think we all
should be of anybody that's not cooperating in an investigation yeah I agree again not fully because yes I
think you should cooperate with law enforcement I think you should tell them any information that you know but
there's a difference between them asking you questions and then them Throwing Shade your way and I think if they're
doing so I mean it's the smartest move lawyer up um that doesn't mean it doesn't mean that you can't cooperate
that doesn't mean that you can't talk with law enforcement but you're going to do so in the presence of your um cuz
you're going to be able to tell your story to your lawyer and based on what you tell your lawyer they're going to
know what they can uh what you should share with law enforcement well and then here's the big one here's the big marker
right here everybody the big turtle yeah we got a giant red neon arrow pointing to this situation so 22 days after
kiran's disappearance detect Ives told Kane Horman kyon's father that his wife Terry about 5 months before Kiron went
missing had asked a landscaper named rodulfo Sanchez to kill her husband so you picturing this situation thank you
Mr Sanchez for coming out to my property today I would like for you to Edge the flower beds cut the grass and roll my
husband up in this rug and dump him in a landfill mhm and then Kane was like we have landscaper
yeah I don't know this is the this is the piece of evidence like if somebody said to me right now like I can have a
question answered I mean obviously the you know where is kirn that would be the main question but if I couldn't have
that answered and I just needed to have a few things answered to lead me to the truth this would be the one yeah this is
the one because and you actually brought it up and I don't like to admit when you do
smart things but it was something I didn't think about at all and as we dove into seems like hundreds of cases now
that you know it's something that you would think that I would have learned through time but this is a big key
people throw this girl under the bus all the time and yeah she has done some shady things morally but this is the one
where they go if she's capable of trying to hire somebody to murder her husband then she's capable of kidnapping and
possibly murdering her stepson or hiring somebody to do it so but here's the problem that I have with it and I never
would have thought of it unless you came up with the idea was the cops do not tell Caine about this till after the guy
goes missing right so then when did the landscaper report this to the cops did he report it to him five months ago or
did he see something on the news and said oh my God this kid went missing that's the lady that tried to hire me to
kill her husband right and I'm glad you opened up that door because we did speak
about this and we've touched upon this in the previous episodes there's so many different versions of this story out
there that it's very confusing and the best that I can nail it down I'm I'm I've thrown out a lot of junk over the
last days mhm on this case and regarding this story but the best I can nail it down is this is how the situation worked
okay the police were not told of this murder for H plot until after Kiron had disappeared yes this uh he goes by Rudy
so we'll go we'll say Rudy Sanchez Rudy Rudy Rudy Rudy yeah I believe that's his
nickname and he he approached the police and said look the lady on the news that's you know involved in this family
with this disappearance um she tried to hire me to kill her husband okay well how do you know this lady Terry Horman
um well I worked for her and that was a debate that you and I had had because when you hear the word landscaper and
somebody worked for somebody you automat automatically kind of assume that it's kind of sometime some type of
longterm uh interaction or agreement that they have um and then we have Kane who says well I didn't even know we had
a landscaper yeah so the situation is this they actually had a fairly big property I believe it
was about 2 and 1/2 to 3 acres and it sounds to me like Kane had decided that James James being a teenager this is
Terry's biological son and Kane's stepson he's decided that James should be responsible for the yard work for the
maintenance of this property well I guess Terry decided that this is too big of a chore for a child yes he's a
teenager but he's still a child and I think that she probably felt that this was unfair and so unbeknownst to her
husband she hired this landscaper to do a lot of the maintenance on the property
she probably kept him working there you know when her husband wasn't there right
um and it was probably just as simple as that this I don't know what this all entailed it could have been a situation
where he only worked for her hand handful of days um or it could have been something a little more long term now
the the way that the story goes according to Mr Sanz is that she had met him at a
restaurant where there she was speaking to him about her husband Cain and she tells Mr Sanchez that Cain is mentally
and physically abusive to her and at some point she starts telling him that you know Kane carries about
$10,000 cash on him at all times and he also has a laptop that he walks around with you know somebody could kill him
and make it look like a mugging and run off with that money now the problem here
is when when pressed further by the police Mr Sanchez does State at no time did she ever technically offer me money
to kill her husband at no time does she say the words I will give you $10,000 if
you murder my husband no he just says she kept kind of implying it she kept kind of leading me down that road now
they don't have a chance to investigate this obviously until after Kiron has disappeared by this point she's probably
Terry's probably on high alert they send in some guy you know an undercover dude
bit of a sting operation to try to talk to Terry again about this murder for high plot and she basically jumps out of
the situation and says says I don't know what you're talking about I want nothing
to do with this right so again if if this thing went down she gets out of it pretty easy yeah or she had nothing to
do with it right I mean there is a possibility that she hired this guy she said a couple stupid things to and he
took the wrong way uh he didn't if he really felt strongly about it I think he would have came to the police before and
then we've seen multiple times with missing person cases and especially when it's a missing kid case some weird
people get involved yeah I agree well Mr Sanchez says that you know not only did
she use this uh Kane always has $10,000 on him approach uh to trying to convince
him to kill Kane but she also used her sexuality and you know bringing up the fact that well not the fact but bringing
up her story of Kane being an abusive person now on on Terry's side and her defense what she would say regarding
this is that the relationship with the landscaper their their you know working relationship together ended when she
turned down sexual advances by Mr Sanchez and she also states that she could at most times could not understand
Mr Sanchez there was a you know things that would get lost in translation let's say well and also she possibly has bad
hearing yeah and so she couldn't understand him and she believed that there were many times that they had
conversations where he could not understand her as well and I think this piece of evidence for me if this came
out or the police were notified about this 5 months before the kid went went missing then I'd I'd believe it more I'm
not saying that I don't believe it but I just would believe it more yeah well I wish it had come out 5 months before uh
Kiren went missing because I have a feeling that had it we might not be sitting here looking
for Kiren at this point right and the other tough thing about this too is from the you know from the get-go of the
investigation uh Caine you know Terry's husband is adamant that she had nothing to do with it and showed no signs of
ever being capable of doing something like this MH um the other thing though too I wish that somewhere somebody would
be able to come out and say you know what I saw Mr Sanchez and Terry Horman together at a restaurant I wish somebody
would if that happened and somebody spotted them um you know I wish we would have somebody saying that because to me
there's no reason for a landscaper in the person that hires him to be together at a restaurant what about the delicious
meals there's still no reason i' you know I worked as a landscaper for a couple years Captain nobody ever invited
me to have a lunch or dinner with them but I'm a geek so why why would that happen all right more about this right
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back okay on Wednesday July 21st 2010 so this is just what about 6 weeks after Kiren
Horman disappeared law enforcement is putting pressure on Terry's small circle of friends this includes 43-year-old DD
Spicer investigators searched Spicer's condominium and have interviewed people who saw Spicer on June 4th the day that
Kiren disappeared now just 2 days later on July 23rd detectives investigating The Disappearance of Kiren announced
that DD Spicer was doing gardening work for a Northwest Portland homeowner on June 4th but she had abruptly left the
house at about 11:30 a.m. and she did not return until about an hour to 90 minutes later another person working at
the home called Spicer to come in for lunch and the homeowner called Spicer on her cell phone but she wasn't able to
reach her Detectives questioned both the homeowner and other persons who were working at the home that day okay so we
have a small circle of friends for Terry Horman and now we have this this woman DD Spicer who is unaccounted for for
about an hour to 90 minutes during the day that Kiren had disappeared yeah which is it it's odd the problem here
though is that he did go to school we do have some eyewitnesses of seeing Terry at after she left the school mhm right
but I think the big problem here is that that we are told that she left the home
around 11:30 a.m. this presents a problem with Terry's story of what was going on that
day because at this time she would have been near the end of her trip of driving
her daughter around for about an hour and a half to get the kid to fall asleep okay and then shortly afterwards she's
seen at the gym with her daughter and then we have we have this little this little 10minute 5 to 10 minute overlap
of DD Spicer when she first goes unaccounted for that day MH towards the end of Terry's time where she's
unaccounted for and then we have Dei who's gone for about an hour to 90 minutes right but the tough thing for me
is what did Terry if she took kirn where was kirn while she was at the store MH where was kirn when she's driving around
uh the daughter was he injured did she hurt him you know they search a car there's no evidence of her driving
around a dead body right this lady has to be crazy enough to help you hide the body of your of your stepson mhm it
seems like a pretty far leap I know that there's some crazy people out there but
and we don't really know much about her other than she's friends she's gave her some bad advice she's bought some I
believe she bought some cell phones for her so she could like talk to people without being traced which I think is
kind of shady we don't know a lot about her so to just call her like oh well she's crazy enough to help hide this
kid right but we would still like to know where she was during this hour during this like to know and again it's
backing right up to the time that Terry is gone for the day now so in her defense um she states that the the calls
went to her voicemail uh by the homeowner and by the person working on the property um because she had left her
phone in her car um the situation is this too this is a large property this is like a 38 acre property right there's
a chance you know I I I I'm a little uncertain what this means when it says she abruptly left the house at about
11:30 a.m. well did she leave the property right um she could have very well have been on the property cell
phone in her car and not able to take these phone calls and I wish we had like cell phone pings to prove whether or not
that phone was at least on the property yeah and we have a situation where we don't seem to have any communication
between the two of them during this time frame yeah but that would be a smart plan hey we got a plan and by the way
don't talk to each other yeah just stick to the plan uh assume I'm going to be where I say I'm going to be at this time
you be where I've asked you to be at the same time I'll be in the garage the following week DD Spicer uh she appeared
at the at the grand jury in front of the grand jury in response to a subpoena now
during this time Captain she's asked several questions where she you know she pulls the old Fifth Amendment movement
you know she says um you know basically doesn't answer any of the questions I played the fifth yes she's going to play
the fifth so she doesn't have to answer any of their questions now in early August we have Searchers and
investigators they're searching a TW Mile Strip of Old germant toown Road uh this is not far from the home of DD
Spicer on Tuesday August 17th DD Spicer tells People magazine that she did not leave the 38 acre uh property where she
was working the day that Kiren Horman vanished right now we have some of the people that worked there um you know as
we said she was unaccounted for during this hour to 90-minute time frame uh It is believed that her vehicle that DD
Spicer's vehicle never left the property her cell phone in if we take her at her
word her cell phone in her vehicle but we have people that have worked there had said that it's not impossible it
would not have been impossible for her to have taken another vehicle and left the property there yeah there's
something fishy about DD Spicer yeah well let's talk about the cell phones you brought it up let's talk about the
burner phones or the prepaid cell phones how you know there's a million different
things you can call them but the situation is this they were able to prove that on on two occasions MH uh at
least three cell phones were purchased uh these were prepaid cell phones uh they were paid for with cash and a fake
name was used to purchase the these phones um it was it's general knowledge that one of Terry horman's friends was
the purchaser uh at least one of these locations of these cell phones and I I might not have been clear there but what
but okay so let me break it down a little easier okay break it down break it down for us on one occasion there
were two cell phones that were purchased by a person using cash and a fake name at another location there was a single
cell phone purchased using the same fake name and again with cash I believe that
they were able to link one of those purchases to one of Terry's friends okay so here here's my thing with this burner
phone mhm little shady that you would want one if you're Terry that you'd want a burner
phone right but right but if you are a cheater maybe you're planning on trying to hook up with somebody some else maybe
you wouldn't want that monitored okay not that big of a deal you're just a shady person and you have bad morals but
that would be a reason then you ask your friend to buy it for you so you're not the one buying it and then your friend
uses a fake name now it's layer upon layer of shadiness right now the thing here is what we got to call into
question is we know that one of her friends did one of those purchases it's thought by law enforcement that the
other purchase is in fact part of her Circle as well because the same fake name was used and the same method of
payment was used now we do know that these cell phones exist and we know that this happened and why because we have DD
Spicer and we have Terry Horman who admit to using these phones they say that you know we we're close friends we
were in contact with each other after the investigation started we had and these are um Terry's words that her
phone had been flashed by police meaning that they took her cell phone for a portion of time and they were able to to
trace its activity right um so she says that these phones were used simply just for Dee and her to communicate back and
forth um I believe that at some point a third name came out and I want to say it
was Laura or Lauren I don't have the name in front of me um I don't know how concrete that was but that's sort of
thought where the third phone would have went um but regarding remember the sexting the old text messages that we
discussed regarding uh Michael cook um during those text messages at one point Terry you know for anybody that still
has a question if she had this burner phone at one point she says to Michael cook hey I have a clean phone right uh
would you prefer to communicate that way would you like to make my clean phone dir him trying to continue the uh Dirty
Talk jokingly says I have a dirty phone and she doesn't really respond to that until he informs her that he was joking
because now she's like oh crap they're they're monitoring his phone right and he and she says do you think they're
monitoring your phone to which Michael says I I wouldn't think so but I don't know how that works where Terry explains
to him they would have had to physically have taken your phone for a short period
of time where they would have installed some kind of software or some form of monitoring his phone for me with these
burner phones again it goes back to even if it's as simple as I'm going through this process of an interrogation I'm
dealing with cops all the time and maybe I just want a vent and be like God this
one cop he's he's kind of a jack wagon right and this other guy's a douche canoe but you don't want to make it
sound like you're bad mouthing the cops cuz they're monitoring your calls mhm I get that that's a reason but you just
have your friend go out and buy a burner phone using their name use their credit
card if you have to give each other phones and that's why you did it you know but using this fake name like I
said it's layer upon layer of shadiness yeah and regarding the questions that she had to answer in front of the grand
jury that she did not will DD Spicer did not willingly answer they were pretty softball
questions Captain I don't have the list in front of me here but the thing is a lot of those questions um were things
that the police would be able to easily prove or disprove um things that don't seem to be
may not be directly related to The Disappearance of Kiren and and matter of fact if DD is not involved or Terry
wasn't involved in this then none of them would have anything to do with The Disappearance of Kiran yeah you know I
think one of one of the questions was was as simple as this you know what has your friendship and relationship been
like for the past six months with Terry Horman I don't know that you need to plead the fifth on that one and then
another question of well maybe there was some uh sexual stuff going on yeah have
have you sent sent or received any emails from Terry Horman after this date okay well plead the fifth but guess what
that that again pretty easy to figure out if those emails if that correspondence happened right so Terry
the turtle does some shady things and Terry the turtle has some shady friends and her scorecard is not looking very
good for her right now on my garage scorecard here Captain but we do have some events that took place regarding
this that we should get to and we we want to make sure we mention the first being on June 1st of 2012 Desiree Young
the biological mother of Kiren filed a lawsuit against Terry claiming that she was responsible for The Disappearance of
Kiren seeking $10 million in Damages now 11 months later Desiree would drop the lawsuit saying that she didn't want the
civil action suit to jeopardize the police investigation into her son son's case then we have late 2013 a judge
finalized the divorce between C and Terry Horman uh but the couple still had to resolve the issue of who would take
custody of the child that took place the following year in 2014 um the ruling would be that the
that Cain would gain custody of their 5-year-old daughter mhm yeah and Terry would be able to visit the girl under
court-ordered supervision in August of 2014 Terry attempted to change her name to Claire Stella
Sullivan to Turd Ferguson in court she told the judge Kiren Horman is missing he needs to be found I love my stepson I
want him home more than anything she also reminded the judge that she had not been the the last person to see kirn
alive and her attorney could prove that now the judge did deny her request to change her name and I think that's smart
I mean she's she's not been named a suspect but guess what when they're holding when they've when they've
collected a grand jury and they're presenting evidence to the grand jury yeah that means they're seeking to
arrest and indict somebody right on a charge but she could be harmful to other people she could be harmful to other
children mhm and I think I think the thing here is the person that they were seeking charges on in an indictment
against it's obviously Terry Horman we have in December of 2014 uh Terry began working for a this
is a care facility for mentally ill adults um and she might she might need to be in the facility yeah she was a
health support specialist she quit working that job in 2015 that brings us to August of
2015 where Terry Horman is charged with having having stolen a handgun from her roommate she lived with a man uh he had
a gun safe I don't think it was a roommate though I think they were lovers and one of his guns came up missing yes
and he said you know what I I saw it in her possession she stole my firearm well
and she wasn't going by Terry to this guy I don't believe she was going by Terry she was going by her uh maiden
name right okay she ended up stealing the gun I think right after he find found out that her stepson went missing
so like they were hanging out for a long period of time and she never brought this up yeah cuz she had moved by this
point so this guy wasn't fully aware of this situation and fully aware of her background or involvement in this uh
right so the story goes that he found out about this and I think questioned her and was like Hey look a lot of
people online think that you had something to do with it and then all of a sudden she steals his gun mhm was she
planning to try to get rid of this guy I think there's only two to me unless somebody wants to try to come up with a
great argument for another reason why to me there's only two two reasons that somebody steals a gun a to sell it or B
to use it to kill somebody and not have it be traced back to you right yeah but what another thing too and I don't know
if you're going to bring this up in your notes but uh desire do something that I
thought was super awesome K kirn's mother goad Ken's mother decides to go to the town that Terry moved to and
start Plastering missing person signs everywhere yes cuz she wanted everybody in that Community to know what kind of
person uh Terry is oh what do they call those there are um there are people that
have helped Desiree uh kind of keep the spotlight on Terry and I think I've heard them refer
to as um desire's disciples uh I I that's that's not the name I would pick here's the thing I
don't Turtle Hunters I I see where one might applaud this I I I do take a little issue with it um
at some point somebody was placing these missing posters around her job as well right um there's a little confusion as
to why she quit um and I what I mean by confusion is this we have the facility stating one reason why Terry quit
working there we have Terry stating another reason stating that she was in fear for her life uh she didn't want to
go to work she did try to put a restraining order on one of the women that was harassing her around her job
and that was putting up these posters that that was denied by the judge and that's when she quit right um so that's
more than likely the true reason why now regarding the gun charges though um this
didn't end up going to court for quite some time almost two years later one because she failed to appear in court um
and two uh they didn't end up resolving this situation until this year the problem is Captain that the charges
she's found not guilty of having stolen this handgun really H that's weird but this case is so tough for me because it
all comes back to did she try to hire somebody to kill her husband husband because if she didn't and that
was just some weird mixup or some weird dude that just wanted to get involved in
the story I don't think a lot of this stuff would have been brought to light I don't think we would have had all these
fishy scenarios with Terry well the thing here is that Terry she hangs her hat on the fact that she has never been
named a suspect we hear it time and time again anytime she does an interview it's
always either started with or follow followed up by I've never been named a suspect in The Disappearance of kir
Horman well good for you okay so let's talk about the the the sticky situations we have the one did she hire someone or
attempt to hire someone to kill her husband was she involved in The Disappearance of her stepson did she try
to steal this gun and if so what what was she going to use it for well we have two situations the first two where there
are no charges brought up against her she's right she was not named a suspect and we have the final one where the
charges didn't stick she gets a not guilty verdict I'm going to call Terry Harman the Teflon stepmom because
nothing sticks to this woman all right but I think the thing here is to I think I'm going to throw all those things out
the window there's a possibility that she's guilty of one of those actions or more mhm possibly all three but I'm
going to throw all those things out the window because I don't think that there's enough evidence to to to drive
us to believe that she's actually guilty of one or all of those things but I think let's hone in on the Kiren
disappearance because I think the thing here is to understand this case and to understand who the most likely suspect
is I think we have to understand who Terry Horman is Terry Horman is a person that will do whatever she wants at any
cost with no regard for anybody else and when she does that and gets caught she's
going to do these things behind your back captain and when she does them and she gets caught behind my back then
she's going to lie about it and if she gets caught in her lies she's going to change her story and she's going to
weasle her way out of every situation that she looks guilty and this is why I have a huge problem with Terry and this
is why I think she should be the prime suspect Than The Disappearance of kirn Horman why because her stories keep
changing mhm everything that happened within This Woman's life every important thing that happened with this woman
leading up to his disappearance and the day that he disappeared her stories keep
changing well and she's very selfish so we have a situation let's go through the
first one okay we have her telling people at her gym people that she works out with other people that go to the gym
we have them tell testifying in front of a grand jury that they were told by Terry that c forced
Terry's son James to go live with either his grandparents or his father but James's story let's go let's go get this
directly from from the person James's story is that he went to go live elsewhere because he could not get along
with his mother right that's a completely different story those are her words these are things she told people
that they were willing to testify to then we have the failed polygraph okay the M two times she failed a polygraph
test now the thing that we hear most of the time is in her defense is that she is deaf in one ear and this caused
complications to those tests well I heard she was deaf in one ear and she can't hear out of the other well the
other thing that she said early on in this situation was that she failed the first polygraph because it was taken the
first week that kir had gone missing mhm and that she failed it because she was not sleeping or eating during this time
because she was so upset about the situation and she was so worried about Kiren that she could not sleep or she
could not eat right yet your own words Terry three days later within that same time frame you post on Facebook going to
the gym guess what Terry I don't go to the gym when I'm not sleeping when I'm not eating when I'm too stressed out or
too worried about a situation or even when he's feeling fine again her words and when that's good enough when that's
good enough then she changes it oh I can't hear out of my left ear okay now let's talk about questions as to why
Terry's phone was pinging off of a tower on Savi Island when her first statements
to police that she was nowhere near Savi Island then years later guess what she's
saying now well when I was out driving the kid around I was on Route 30 which is very close to Savi Island no ter you
were either nowhere near Savi island or you were on Route 30 and guess what even
if you were on Route 30 maybe that explains the cell phone pings to me but it doesn't explain to me why your story
keeps changing and then the final thing that I want to bring up right is the last time that Terry said that she saw
Kiron he was by himself he was in the hallway he's walking towards his classroom and then just 3 days later we
have you saying that he was with a strange man with a person that I didn't recognize
right I'm sorry Terry that that is a way of pointing the investigators in one of
those other options not on Terry this points them towards some strange man abducted this boy right and I tell you
what you know we we talked about I said you know when I've been questioned by police and they asked me something as
simple as did you see a brown car drive past I would say no I didn't see a brown
car because I didn't but I'm going to tell them that I saw a blue car and I'm and I saw a black car why because I did
why because guess what it's my duty as a citizen as a citizen to tell them everything that I saw during the time
frame that they are asking me it's not up to me to decide the relevancy of the things I saw right it's to pass on the
information to law enforcement so they can determine the relevancy of what I saw
and if it means anything that could mean something to them later in their investigation guess what Terry you were
probably if the if the police and which I have to believe that they were and detectives were following protocol
they're going to ask you very specific questions where was the last time you saw him what was the last time you saw
him who was with him did you see anybody with him right a boy a girl a man a woman a dog a cat a python anything a
turtle yes did you see anything the answer to those questions was no and then magically 3 Days Later he's with
some strange man this to me makes her the prime suspect in this case 100% do you uh need to take a
break I think I've said everything that I want to say you sure mhm you're you look a
little sweaty the the colonel you always say I'm not going to get heated up on this one n
the colonel showed up to play well and obviously Captain they don't have enough to bring Terry Horman up on charges of
The Disappearance of Kiran right but they're still out there looking there's still searches that are being conducted
to this day and I think someday they might find that thing that they're looking for they might find Kiron
somewhere and I hope he's well and when they do we're going to I think we're going to find more evidence pointing
towards the guilt of Terry Horman you know it' be awesome if they find him one day I don't believe that's going to
happen uh not find him alive and uh as much as I don't approve of what Cain did um that his parents are in a really
tough spot with life because Cain is always going to sit there and wonder what if I was just
faithful to my wife what if I never met Terry what if you you know I mean what if I would have saw these signs earlier
what if I was honest with when I saw these signs and told more people about it what if I wasn't so stubborn and I
would have let him go live with his mother and then the mother's going to think well why didn't I see this or what
could I have done so he that he wouldn't have left uh could I could I stay and make it work what if I saw these signs
what if what if I wasn't sick in the first place to let him go live with them M and all these what gifts um that you
can't change now and I really feel for his parents and everybody that knew this wonderful kid he seemed like a wonderful
kid a ball of energy and uh and I hope for his sake that we have answers one [Music]
day all right do we have a recommended reading for this week this week we are recommending women who kill profiles of
female serial killers by Carol an Davis she profiles 14 women who used all different methods of murder to kill
their victims each killer is the subject of a separate chapter exploring their childhood lifestyle and sexuality there
is an analysis of the murder the trial and the imprisonment of every woman the author comments on how Society May
underestimate dangerous women and what it is that can turn an ordinary woman into a killer women who kill by Carol an
Davis is our recommended reading but you don't have to jot that down right now because it is listed on our recommended
page at true Crim garage.com and check out all of our recommendations there and I'm very excited about getting in the
garage next week we are taking a look at a case that has fascinated the captain for years yeah one that we have covered
before but we're diving back into so until next week be good be kind and don't [Music]
litter Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I thought it was an Eco move few your
worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic must be a tech thing but those aren't
quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service instantly and even get your project
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just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today

Kyron Horman /// The Suspect

Part 4 of 4

The Suspect...

It's a parents worst nightmare... You send your kid off to school and you think they are safe. Once they get inside the four walls of their school nothing bad should happen. In June of 2010, 7 year old Kyron Horman was dropped off at his school. His stepmother last saw him walking to his classroom. She left when Kyron was just feet from the classroom door. When school was let out, Kyron was to be picked up from the bus stop. When the bus arrived and let the kids out, Kyron was not there. Sometime during the school day he was taken from his school. Tonight we discuss the tragic story of a missing little boy. Beer of the week - Pallet Jack by Barley Brown's Garage Grade - 4 bottle caps out of 5

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Brief Summary

Kiren Horman went missing in 2010; suspicion falls on his stepmother Terry Horman amid inconsistencies and suspicious behavior.

Key points

The Disappearance of Kiren Horman. Kiren has been missing for seven years, last seen at school. What happened?
Suspicion on the Stepmother. Terry Horman's behavior raises questions about her involvement in Kiren's disappearance.
Murder for Hire Plot. Terry allegedly asked a landscaper to kill her husband months before Kiren went missing.
The Disappearance of Kiren Horman. Investigators are piecing together the timeline of events leading to Kiren's disappearance.
DD Spicer's Unaccounted Time. DD Spicer was unaccounted for during a crucial time on the day Kiren disappeared.
Shady Phone Purchases. Burner phones purchased under fake names raise questions about Terry's intentions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

What's going on that day? It sucks.

Discussing the disappearance of Kiren Horman.

5:38WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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