JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family | Forensic Files

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brand [Music] John B Ramsey she was strangled with a cord Little Miss Colorado 6-year-old murder victim John
Ben Ramsey unknown Intruder her [Applause] brother victory John B Ramsey oh my God they still have not interviewed the
parents I Didn't Do It John Ramy didn't do it and we didn't have a clue of anybody who did
do my life has been H from that day forward and I want nothing more and to find out who was responsible for
this [Music] in 2006 a former school teacher John Mark Carr confessed out of the blue to
the 1996 strangulation of John Benet and graphic sexual detail on August 17th 2006 Thailand authorities arrested John
Mark carrr A 42-year-old American teacher he had been living in Thailand on the lamb after facing child
pornography charges in the US Carr had been emailing a Colorado professor and was making incriminating statements
about his involvement in John benet's death the boulder District Attorney's Office wanted to charge him with murder
he was extradited back to the United States and brought to Boulder Colorado to be arraigned for her murder this from
August 20th 2006 from cnn.com a video titled in car's own words a reporter asked I am with the
Associated Press can you give us a brief statement Carr replies I I love John Benet and she died accidentally reporter
asks are you an innocent man Carr says no what happened Carr replies um her dad was an accident so you were in the
basement car says yes the reporter asked can you tell us about your connection to
the ramsy family car says no he cannot comment on that how did you or how did you get into the basement again car says
no comment on that reporter and how how do you feel now how have you been treated car says I've been treated
okay asked how long had you known John Benet and again he says I have no comment on that here are some other
statements made by Carr Carr says I was with John Bay when she died now this is not technically a confession but more of
an admission he did not say I killed John Benet just I was with John Benet when she died another one of Carr's
interesting statements and this of course is in regards to John Benet he says it's very important for me that
everyone knows that I love her very much that her death was unintentional that it
was an accident then the September 4 2006 issue of People magazine claims they have an
exclusive jailhouse interview with John Mark Carr turns out this was not the case in fact People magazine interviewed
the Thailand authorities who told them what car said they say that car said the ramies feel their daughter was brutally
murdered and she wasn't it looks like that but she wasn't I want them to hear the truth I need closure and her family
needs closure all of us have gone through enough pain then the boulder district attorney
announced that they were dropping the charges against John Mar Carr and the John Benet Ramsey murder they say it
turns out DNA on the body at the scene did not match that of Carr's DNA secondly a great defense is always a
good Alibi it has been reported that the police never interviewed Carr's family prior to his arrest and extradition to
the United States most people know where they were during the Christmas season Carr's family has always said and always
maintained their statements that Carr was with them when John Benet was killed but Carr says the DNA might not match
but you can't trust the test yeah and it's possible and we can get into the DNA later not matching but it seems like
he's just seeking out attention and that he's a lying [ __ ] princess well he's got a face for
camera he has a face for radio yeah no I I'm joking I mean he's he's not uh he's
fugly right he's Less Pleasant to look at than he is to listen to on July 9th I want to get into this real quick here
because it's going to translate into further discussion that we'll get into on July 9th 2008 Mary Lacy the boulder
district attorney announced that recently developed touch DNA technology had cleared all members of John Benet
Ramsay's family of her slang DNA from an unknown male was found on two articles of clothing on John benet's person many
have argued and I believe very rightfully so why this DNA evidence clears the family if it in fact should
even clear the family at all being John paty and Burke right this DNA evidence only proves two things that an unknown
male was possibly present at the crime scene we do not know where the DNA came from and that the DNA does not belong to
the ramsy family as statement analysis.com put it this evidence does not exonerate the ramsy it does not
prove they were not present or were not involved or do not know who killed John Benet regardless of all of that the DNA
found on John Benet did not match Carr's DNA and the murder charges were in fact
dropped he was sent to California to face child pornography charges I want to stay on this DNA for just a little bit
longer because one of the reasons why they believe that this DNA shouldn't be tested against anybody that comes
forward or any suspect is that they don't know if it's a mixture of DNA it they go well it's a single male that's
what they believe it is but even in the test results it says it could be two to three males like a
combination not meaning that there's even two or three people involved in her murder just that this DNA is a
combination of could be a combination of multiple people therefore you'll never get a match when you're comparing
multiple people's DNA to one person right and I mean it's interesting that that we have the DNA and it was found on
two articles of clothing on her that were on her person as she lay there in that wine seller which is of Interest I
don't think it should be ignored I think and I'm going off of expert opinion as well
and just really agreeing with them where several experts have stated that they don't find this type of DNA evidence to
be of any value when it comes to eliminating a suspect or or trying to convict a suspect right that it's simply
for now until we can prove otherwise it's simply for now DNA that we we can't identify that is believed to come from a
man doesn't seem to match any of the Ramsay but we don't know how it got there or
how long it was there yeah and it's hard for me to believe that with such a vicious attack there would be no DNA
left at the scene at all but again I think everybody involved in this case or anybody that has researched this case
can start off with the idea that the crime scene is heavily contaminated and I actually don't want to fault I don't
want to fault law enforcement too much for that because I I do believe they went into this situation going it's a
kidnapping and yes what they should have done is stop everything and go let's make sure that this is actually a
kidnapping and there's no child in this house but they missed that step and that
caused a blunder of other things to go wrong because of the date it happened on I think it's reasonable to see why
they missed that step I look I somewhat agree with you I but disagree in a sense
that I don't think that anybody in the public should feel any less safe on December 26th than they would any other
time of year any other date that agree that's on the calendar and and you're right in in a way that because it's been
by Boulder Colorado's own detectives and police that state this couldn't have happened on a worst
day this is the day that it's toughest for us to get a full staff to get the most people working it's just a it's a
bad day scheduling wise no right but turns out it's a great day to commit a murder right but what I mean by that is
that maybe that these officers would miss a step one because it's right after a holiday but two because they just
spent time with their friends and family and so when you hear oh we have a kidnapping like I said it could just be
as simple as well we're going to believe the parents right away when maybe they won it if it was 3 weeks later yeah I
also think that my wishes truly are that Boulder Police Department that they would have treated it as a kidnapping as
soon as they were notified of a kidnapping and that does not appear to have taken place to me right let's talk
about Linda Hoffman Pew she worked for the Ramsay she was their housekeeper this is one thing that separates her
from many of the other people that we've already discussed she had a key to to the home she had a key to the Ramsay's
house her husband mvin worked with Linda and for the Ramsay on a few occasions on
the evening of 1227 1996 this is the day after all of the the mess that we just kind of touched upon at the the Ramsey
home in the investigation police showed up at the pews home and they wanted her to write the number
118,000 on a piece of paper and reportedly took her fingerprints and several strands of
her hair at that time as well Linda confirmed the police's suspicions of John Benet possibly having a bed wedding
problem there are several Publications that say Linda accuses paty Ramsey of killing John Benet and it appears that
she did I believe this may just have been in retaliation especially after learning learning that the ramsy put
Linda and her husband on a list of people they would consider to be suspects and then some extended family
pointed to them as well the extended Ramsey family member told police Linda had asked paty for a loan many
Publications out there stated that the Ramsay refused to help her out and Linda's family was struggling and
desperately needed the money this sounds very ominous and certainly presents a cloud of Suspicion but let's clear a
bunch of things up here Linda did in fact ask py for a loan the loan amount was for
$2,000 and paty and John they agreed to help her out they gave her the money and
the agreement was that they would take $200 out of each of her paychecks until the loan was paid back yeah that makes
sense also it wasn't like Linda was super desperate for money yes her and her husband struggled at times
but she had a good job working for the Ramsay and mvin was even able to pick up some work because of her job as well the
loan was for car repairs and dental work these both being emergency situations that can be expensive that spring up
without notice we have all experienced this right let's keep in mind too even more so than the Ramsay the police were
considering everyone with a key to the home to be a suspect at that time in the investigation did you see some of the
reports that speculate that there was as many as 20 keys not not accounted for I've seen multiple numbers reported over
the years one thing that is pointed out by the detectives that were working the case was the when they first started off
investigating the murder as soon as they knew it was a murder they wanted to know
who had keys and how many were out there there and that number that was provided
to them by the ramsy was much much different than what their investigation would lead them to to
find now Linda was someone who had a key to the home as we stated and regardless
of what some of these Publications say that are out there Linda when first questioned by police never suggested
that paty or John were guilty of anything other than loving their children she even stated that she
worried about the beautiful little girl meaning John Benet who was allowed to ride her bike unsupervised and said
someone must have seen her and attempted to take the little girl this statement obviously pointing toward an unknown
Intruder rather than the Ramsay mvin however told police that the few times he was in the home he found the home to
be very difficult to navigate saying if you just turned around you'd get lost this statement pointing toward an
Insider if it was an intruder of course Hoffman Pew does not even fit the profile the police were working with
which was white male former convict 25 to 30 years old Hoffman Pew was 57 at the time and her husband was about the
same age years later she did testify in front of a grand jury for a total of eight hours including a statement
against py that read quote I think she had multiple personalities she'd be in a good mood and then should be cranky she
got into arguments with John Benet the Linda Hoffman Pew Theory as it goes says the housekeeper led a trusting John B
down into the basement that night an attempt to trick her employers into leaving money for her Ransom it is
possible that she could have seen John Ramsay's pay stub for $18,000 as a bonus familiar with both
the home and the family's schedule Hoffman Pew makes a convenient suspect and without a solid Alibi she says she
was asleep in bed while her husband allegedly slept on the couch she has however never been formally accused of
this crime and there's really no evidence pointing to her just speculation by mainly a lot of it coming
from paty's mother now we've spent the last episode and portion of this episode discussing some of the people we believe
should be in the conversation of suspects there there nobody in there that we are specifically saying should
be a suspect just when you want to look at people that you might want to look into with the investigation these would
all be people that the captain and I would take a look at there are a few people that we haven't discussed yet and
that would be some true insiders in this case the three ramsy family members that
were inside the home obviously we cannot discuss every person that's ever been thought to be a suspect by whomever out
there yeah I mean we we thought about after the second episode just going screw it let's do a 100 episodes on this
case but then we decided against that well just the suspects alone would be extremely exhausting one to report and
two to listen to as well because the Ramsay John and pany Supply Boulder police with a list of suspects the list
that they gave to police now it grew as the investigation went on right but the latest report that I heard was that that
number was at 168 that the ramsy gave the police department 168 people to look at and
obviously their names were not included on this list so right but if your child was murdered and you weren't involved at
some point you would start just naming everybody you knew just to have them look at anybody because they're not at
this point you don't know who they've looked at what leads they have or where they're going how close
they are so at some point you're you start becoming desperate I get that and that's that just like everything else in
this case is where you can take one bit of information and you could use it to argue for or against the Rams yeah so
where every one of us would expect innocent people to supply a very lengthy list in a desperation to find Justice
for their daughter the flip side of that is the suspicion of going well they have
something to hide so they're providing police with this very extensive list giving them all these errands and chores
to do to really steer the direction of the investigation away from themselves to further compound that a bit we do
have statements by pany ramsy who says at some point in the investigation she was suspicious of uh saying that she
believed the killer could have been a Colorado University student well that adds several thousands
more people to the list of suspects so it's really one of those tricky things the other thing that I
found interesting about this and this is actually a real I think this is a very possibly legit answer we do know
that the ramies did provide a suspect list that's not in question that absolutely happened what I believe is in
question is the number of people that the Ramsay put on that list right because that number has been reported
all over the shop it's a pretty high number I'll say that but I found this statement to be it's really a response
that John Ramsey had it either shows his level of intelligence or his level of innocence or possibly his level of he
thinks he might be set up being wrongfully accused of something and it was this one of his friends contacted
him their conversation was Ramsey wanted to know well why did you say you said some things about me that I didn't
really like right and his his friend or acquaintance I don't know the the strength of their
relationship and the the statements themselves they they weren't even really a big deal in my opinion but the friend
says to John well I only said that stuff because uh or I only said that you should be a suspect because police came
to me and told me that you told them that I should be a suspect right and John Ramsay's response to that was look
I didn't say you should be a suspect they're just telling you and telling everybody else out there in our our
circle of friends and co-workers that we have said everybody else is a suspect they're they're trying to stir
the pot is what John Ramsay's basically saying they're trying to stir the pot so
that you will give them stuff about us you will give them dirt on us so it's really one of those really
difficult things to kind of sift through who is right who is wrong and what this
particular thing could mean I in the beginning of of this investigation thought that that number of
168 people named as suspects by the Ramsay was a crazy number and it pointed to something that they might be trying
to hide right as I go through it I question that action less and less and less one thing we do need to talk about
too which added suspicion in the Public's eye to the Rams and I believe it added suspicion in the eyes of law
enforcement as well working the case is what has always been referred to as the Ramsay hiding behind a wall of lawyers
and some people have even gone as far to call this wall of lawyers team ramsy the one of the attorneys hired by
the ramies was this is from an old case and it's from representation to a person
named Lee Lindsay her husband was shot to death inside their home now Lee Lindsay was found innocent John hired
that same defense attorney to represent him it's an interesting strategy again it's just another one of those things
that you could argue either side this points to him having something to hide this points to him just wanting good
representation so he doesn't get wrongfully accused John and paty had different attorneys and Burke had his
own attorney as well now we should point out they're all paid for by John Ramsey
but they're all receiving separate representation some people point to that as being very strange as something very
weird I really to me Captain my opinion on that I could go either way on it I I would I would really want somebody with
a strong opinion on it to to offer up their opinion to me as to why I should feel one way or the other about it I
don't really think that it points to anything I think again initially it pointed to me that well
if let's pretend I'm the husband and and there's a what does that make mean pany
when you're not involved in this okay if I'm the husband in a situation where my
my child has been killed and the police are now looking at me and my wife as potential suspects what you know they're
going to what if I'm in a situation where I know I'm innocent but I don't fully know
if my spouse is innocent right right well then it would make very much sense if I hired an attorney for me and if I
had if I were a man of money then I would probably hire one for her as well but we would be represented by two
different people because my interest and her interest in this investigation are not the same and
therefore we need different representation yeah it'd be awesome if you're a man of money cuz we could turn
on the heat in the garage now the flip side of that is what if I know that innocent and I know my wife to be
innocent as well MH I know that a very common police tactic and detective tactic would be for them to separate us
and question us at the same time in separate areas in separate locations thus making it
impossible for the attorney representing both of us to physically represent both
of us during that situation right you see how this pendulum swings back and forth it's it's aggravating
it's interesting it's truly a fascinating case but with a lot with a lot of unanswered questions right but I
view it from the standpoint of what John Ramsay says the day of the crime he talks to police officers the day of the
crime they have Burke talk to investigator without anybody present they also send Burke to their friend's
house where he could have said God knows what if if he was responsible for this or if he knew what happened what John
Ramsey says is that they're willing to cooperate they had some suspicion from their friends saying you probably should
get a lawyer to help you through all this but when the police would not give back her body so they could have the
burial that's when John said that was the line drawn in the sand and you don't want to give our dead child back so we
can bury her until you have have a sit down sit down conversation with both him and paty and I think at that point he
realized um this was kind of war and I think he was I don't even think it was whether it
was right or wrong I think it was just like I think he felt that it was very disrespectful and from then on I'm not
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[Music] [Music] all right cheers mates cheers Captain this week we are sipping on a little
Christmas Ale by the good people at Great Lakes Brewing Company garage grade that would be five bottle caps pick up
some Christmas Ale for yourself for your family for this year's festivities all right captain we're kind of to the point
now where we're really only left with about three people left to discuss and these would be the complete total
insiders in this whole entire case the three Ramsay family members that were inside the home the night that John
Benet was killed we mentioned yesterday the experts or several people that stated that they believe in an intruder
theory is the best theory for this case regarding The Insider Theory we have CBS
Robert wrestler Greg mcquery Dr Cel wet and Steve Thomas two retired FBI agents that is the flip side of the coin of
John Douglas I guess and we have sirel W who is an expert in forensics as well as
Steve Thomas who would be the flip side of the coin for L Smith Lou Smith was brought in to work this invest tigation
for the prosecutors for the team of prosecutors Steve Thomas was a member of the Boulder Police Department and was a
detective at the time and he was one of the lead investigators on the Ramsey investigation the strange thing being
here is that these two investigators worked on the same team at the same time of the same investigation and had two
completely different opinions on what happened what took Place who was responsible for the murder and both of
them believed so strongly in their theory that the evidence that they could see backed up what they suspected so
much so that both of them eventually resigned from working the case at all and that's pretty strong commitment to
your theory yeah 100% we have stated that some people were eliminated whatever words you want to use in
regards to very things that are very specific like handwriting possibly DNA aliis
aliis the only true people that in my that I'm willing to go along with and agree with that have been officially
cleared in this case were cleared very early on in the investigation and there were only four of them and that would be
John Andrew and Melinda Ramsay John's two older children right as well as Fleet and Priscilla white those four
have been officially cleared and I agree with all four of those statements this being basically that it
was proven to be physically impossible for any of these four people to be involved because they have an ironclad
Alibi the two older children were not even in the state of Colorado they would need to either own a private jet or a
time machine machine to or teleport yeah have possibly been able to commit this crime and it appears the same way with
Fleet and Priscilla white as well based off of they had a bunch of guests at their home overnight and there's just
multiple people stating that until the we hours of the morning they're both accounted for it's not like one of these
statements like oh we went to bed at 8:00 and I didn't get up and do anything till the next morning no they were up
hanging out with these people until until the we hours of the morning they were pulling what I call a crispy
Colonel so this leaves us with three of the more popular suspects in this case and you know I remember when I was a
child and this case was in the news that there were people screaming at the top of their lungs the parents did it the
parents did it and then years later a popular Theory came out that maybe the brother did it either way for somebody
in the home to have killed John Benet without question there has to be a cover up and then you have to go to the
extent of how many people do you believe were to be involved in that coverup and
why the the need for the cover up in the first place John Ramsay was a popular suspect early on and this would be based
off of the salacious photos that came out of this young six-year-old blonde in these beauty pageants wearing clothing
and outfits that people didn't think were appropriate and you carry that out a little further people wondered well
could she have been sexually abused was there abuse going on in inside the home and could John Ramsey be guilty of such
abuse the other thought here is we have paty Ramsey the paty Ramsey Theory to me
is is I think I was going to say interesting but I don't think that's the right word I
think it's complicated is is the better word and I say that because in regards to py having killed John Benet and then
covered it up it seems like there could be many motivating factors for py right where
with John it it seems pretty cut and dried that it's just I that he must have been abusing her sexually and it led to
this and then it was covered up well it seems like we have evidence that points against the idea that she was abused
long term and the the where the place where this Theory then splits is you could go okay well
did py help him cover covered up or was she aware of other things going on or not right with the paty theory it's it's
a number of things it could be that John B W the bed and there was an attack an impulsive attack that took place and
then it was covered up later or she was in some weird weird way jealous that her
daughter is being molested by her husband and flew into some kind of Rage yeah or it's possible that she was
molesting her daughter herself she was molesting the daughter one interesting Theory too is that Jon's molesting the
daughter in in some type of what was meant to be a heroic act to come in and and attack this man attack her husband
who's violating her daughter that in some freak accident she accidentally struck John Benet in the
head instead and then they worked together to cover it up the theories are as bizarre as you can imagine and then
there's others that that make some sense now mind you you need the evidence to back them up yes and this is where it
might even get more complex but I believe based on the autopsy that it shows that John Benet was not being
molested for years so to me that rules out pany molesting John B or John molesting John B I also would find it
very strange uh to have a situation where we have molestation of a child of your own child
in a house that there is no pornography at all found or any claims all by any friends they had a lot of close
friends no claims whatsoever about child abuse so to me I think you can take that off the
table I certainly don't lean that way that that was the situation that that was what was going on long
term and I back that up by saying look this John was not a firsttime father okay he had other other children that
have nothing but good things to say about him usually with an offender that would would reoffend on the same victim
over and over again it's not uncommon that they just victimize one child right but it's more common that they victimize
more than one of the children so I don't lean that way and it also appears that out of
the this was a a young girl that was very well cared for in the sense that she had 27 doctor's visits in the course
of 3 years now some people call that into suspicion I'm fine with that it's suspicious to me too but what's not
suspicious is a lot of times when there is some form of physical abuse or sexual
abuse you're not running to the doctor for every little thing that comes up because sometimes a doctor can detect
these things or can question marks on a child the things with with John Benet and and her body and and the examines
the examinations of her body and these doctor visits I don't think that we can 100% rule out the
possibility of some type of sexual abuse it just doesn't seem like anybody people
that have firsthand knowledge of all these situations and of John Benet it doesn't seem that anybody leans that
direction right these are these are things that could be explained Away by sexual abuse but also could be explained
away a million other ways and have been irritations due to wetting the bed wetting yourself irritations to bubble
bath right you know any number of different things going on here so yeah I'm with you Captain I don't see a
situation where we have long-term sexual abuse now that doesn't mean that sexual
abuse cannot be the motivating factor for what happened here it very well could be that this was the very first
time that this ever took place and it went it ended in Murder right I think if you believe that then you have to
believe the evidence of the autopsy and that means that there would have been something that happened on the 23rd so
again like you said it's new developing um sexual molestation but by Apparent I just I just don't see it
there I just think there's such a lack of evidence of that and I think it makes maybe a little more sense with the idea
of that this bed wedding becomes a issue and the person that's dealing with it constantly is
paty and so something happened there but again it it's strange to me it's just it's this is so complicated
because you have to start picking what happened first and I don't believe a hit or the fracture of the skull happened
first so if that did happen first and somebody could prove to me that happened first then I'd go well yeah paty got a
little upset and and pushed her and she hit her head or she accidentally hit hit
John B on top of the head with something and then use this gr to cover it up but
I just don't see that to be the case in regards can you can you clear up what you mean by something occurring on
the 23rd well because the because the examiner claims that the the day that she was murdered there's evidence that
there's digital molestation right and that but there's also evidence that it would have happened and when we use the
word chronic he was stating that it probably happened on the 22nd or the 23rd so there was evidence of some kind
of molestation on the day she was murdered and then on the 22nd and the 23rd so meaning if it was somebody on
the inside it could have been the second time that such an act took place yeah I'm just I'm taking that off the table
because to me it doesn't there's no evidence that points and I just there's no evidence that points that
John R Ramsey was doing that there's no evidence that points that paty Ramsey was doing that no I agree with you too
I'm not willing to take it off the table because it sounds like the medical examiner says that something took place
right and look she's in the company of her family more than anybody else she's a
six-year-old child mhm so I won't take it off the table when there's still there's still reason to leave it on on
the table I think the the difficulty with this case as you were the road you were starting to go down
there is one it's it's a it's a general misconception in this case that the belief that she was struck
on the head and then strangled with this Gat and the whole strangulation of the Gat was an act to cover up an accidental
hit to the head of strike to the head which of course duh anybody could make a case for that to have been py Burke John
what have you the problem being is it seems that all the experts seem to agree that the strangulation came first
and the strike on the head occurred either at the same time or shortly after so what that says to me is that
the the use of this garat of this strangulation of whatever was happening before John B was struck on the
head you it can't be a cover up in the sense that the Gat was not used as a cover up
the strangulation was not used as a cover up this occurred before the strike on the head right and there's multiple
things to point us to this one she has defensive wounds meaning that John Benet when she was being struck wrangled with
this Gat she tried to pull it off her neck and there's indents all over her neck fingernail
indents to show that she was conscious when she was being choked and she tried to stop it if she was hit on the head
that blow to the head that caused that massive fracture would have left her probably brain
dead she would have had severe brain swelling she would have had severe brain bleed so she wouldn't be able to be
conscious to stop this attack now is it possible that she was strangled for a while hit on the head
and then strangled again that's very possible but this idea that she was hit on the head first it's just it makes
zero sense and I always believed the CBS reports when I watched the first CBS documentary I went well there you
go that that seems like it makes a lot of sense and you have these paid investigators and these forensic experts
sitting on this board going yeah this probably what happen or something to that this
effect you have to believe again the idea that John B comes up and takes some pineapple away from her brother and then
he turns around and hits her on the head with some kind of object maybe the flashlight that's what they said in the
CBS report I think you said you don't think a 9-year-old would be strong enough to
do that blow I lean towards your expertise on that but it's also you can't see the
fracture you can see the fracture after the autopsy that's because to put it bluntly they removed the skin right you
can't see there was no laceration there was no open head wound she's not bleeding all over the place the the
medical examiner the pathologist Dr Meyers He was unaware of the Blow To The Head until till well into the
examination of the body going off of sight scene of what he sees at the at the uh crime scene and what he
sees on the body of the victim he's immediately going oh this was strangulation pretty obvious the Rope
still around her neck sorry right but it wasn't until further examination did he
discover this strike to the head and I'm look there have been experts out there again I'm no expert but you're expert in
the garage there have been experts out there that said yes a 99-year-old could do could carry out this type of violent
strike to the head of a small child and cause this amount of damage I'm sorry man I've seen the the the pictures and
unfortunately had to stare at them long enough I refuse to believe that I I simply it it look at the pictures let's
go down this road for a second because let's just say he was able to do that blow and let's just say that you can say
paty saw him hit her or didn't see Burke hit her at some point she comes up upon her
lifeless body but guess what she's still breathing she is still breathing so maybe some time passes but
you're going to tell me this mother that loves her daughter isn't just going to call the ambulance
because guess what we have evidence of what happens when Burke hits his sister in the in the face with a golf
club he gets in trouble they take her to the emergency room you think she comes upon her
lifeless child's body but guess what the child is breathing so you you want to tell me me that she's not going to just
call 911 and say hey we we need help we need an ambulance because she would have no clue
she is not a medical examiner she's not a doctor she's not a nurse she has no clue
you're I would assume that most people most adults that came across a six-year-old that was unconscious and
there was no evidence of her where she was hit that they wouldn't call 911 to try to
save their daughter's life so people want you to think that she just automatically assumed that she was dead
decided to make a gat and start choking her violently not like halfhazard violently and choke her so much that the
rope moves places but then somehow during all this John Benet comes to and then defends the
choking and once her child comes to she goes oh well it's too late for you we're
just covering this up for Burke we got to save Burke and then she continues to choke and then we're got to Stage some
molestation but again the evidence points that not only did it happen that day but it probably happened a couple
days before so did you stage that too and then we got to start staging all these
other things now we got to write this Ransom note it just doesn't make a lot of sense
and regardless if it makes sense or not the science doesn't back any of that up what the science backs up is that she
was strangled and then struck in the head in that exact order right and what what backs that up is
the what the science shows is a slowing of the blood moving to the brain at that
time right that's one piece of evidence meaning that she was either in the act of dying when she was struck on the head
or very you know she's in the act of dying or very close to death right something is causing blood to be slowed
or stop going to the brain and then she's struck in the head what stopped that was the strangulation that was
going on with the Gat yeah at the time that she was struck on the head so you're not using the Gat to
cover up being struck in the head you're not using sexual abuse to cover up the strike to the Head what you have here is
a situation where unfortunately we have sexual assault and a a very vicious sexual act of cutting off the
air to the to to a six-year-old to a six-year-old and then during the commission of doing all that there is a
strike to the Head whether the offender struck her on the head because he believed she was dead and wanted to make
sure or wanted to strike her on the head to cover up and confuse what was going on at the scene we can't say we can't
say that but what we can say based off of the science is that the act of strangulation was taking place before
the strike to the Head occurred so just to try to work somebody off of our list if you're going to believe that
possibly did this then you have to reconcile the fact that she was being choked before being struck on the hat
you have to take it a step further and say well he was he built this fancy garat and he was choking her and then he
smack her over the head and and look it makes for a good story but I don't see the evidence to suggest that that's what
in fact occurred what I do see evidence of is a the the problem with the people in the house is
we have John who could be guilty we have py who could be guilty and then we could
have all three that Were Somehow in on it together one thing that I believe you can absolutely cross off your list and
take off the table is that Burke did all of this by himself right take that one off because he's 9 years old he didn't
write that letter he didn't write that Ransom letter he didn't construct that Gat I don't know why a 9-year-old would
be into this type of sex ual assault that I believe to be taking place in that basement right or how they would
even know about that at all and then you would have to convince me that he's strong enough to inflict that severe
severe Blow To The Head and he also has to write the note by himself right so there and and
yeah and he has to tie the sophisticated knots I just don't see that being a possibility and again maybe a heavy
enough object maybe you can create the fracture I'd be more interested to see if a 9-year-old
could inflict the damage around the neck with the gr because you'd have to be pulling
pretty pretty hard so I I just don't see it here's my thing though is I've been thinking about
this a lot why did I watch the CBS report and why did I believe that and some of it is because they just omit
certain pieces of evidence which come on shame on you right you have some uh agenda you have some point you're trying
to make so you just leave out all the pieces of evidence so therefore your point makes the most sense but I started
thinking well well why does you know looking at the evidence that we've done for the the last few
months why did America why it seems like almost all of America was fooled by this
but I think it's cuz it's easier it's easier to think that this was an accident it's
easier to think that a 6-year-old was accidentally hit on the head by her brother the parents did not know what to
do they were scared that they're going to lose their son and then they did these horrible things but on some level
on a very small percentage we all can just justify their actions because they didn't want to lose
their son because maybe there was something wrong with their son we've only seen one interview with him which is a
very odd interview as he has grown up I think that those are nervous reactions when he talks to Dr Phil but I think
when you see him as a child child there's some strangeness in those interviews too but look it's a 9-year-old kid being
interrogated or being questioned after his little sister was murdered but I think it's easier to come
to that conclusion it's easier to think that than to think somebody took the time to make a device
to put around a six-year-old's neck and to pull it so tight that her brain was losing blood and
oxygen and was either molesting her or molesting themselves why they choked the life out of this little girl
and they either got so excited that they decided to smash her on the head splitting her skull pretty
much in half half or like I have theorized that maybe after she was dead that when they were trying to carry
her out on some level they ended up dropping her and then they panicked and they left
but I think it's you see what I'm saying where I feel it's almost it's harder to imagine the
latter it's also very difficult to imagine that the parents did this it's almost easier then in a sense
too that an intruder should be guilty of such a terrible act and such a terrible
attack on a child yeah this is a very unpopular opinion but I lean toward the Intruder
Theory as one that I feel to be more likely I'm not willing to rule other possibilities
out what it's just with the with the Damage Done the physical damage done to the
victim what I see here is something that is beyond probably the capabilities of the
ramies and I know that it happens all the time in America and other countries as well right where a parent does
something horrible unspeakable acts to their own child I understand it I get it but at the end of the day when I can't
make what I believe to be an educated decision because the evidence is so messy then I have to go with my gut and
what my gut tells me is that from the pictures that I've seen of the Damage Done I feel like this this had to be an
intruder and I I will take that a step further by stating the the garat itself the construction of the garat the
construction of those knots that too appears to me to point toward a certain level of
sophistication meaning somebody that has fashioned one of these devices before right and if the ramies are simply
trying to cover something up they've had they've never had a reason to construct
one before well all the items that made the gar made the ransom letter all everything came from inside the house
Nick well that's not in fact entirely true there were items inside the home that cannot be ruled out as having
caused the damage that was made by the blow to the head right but we don't have any proof that there was an item inside
the home that did in fact make that wound that made that strike to the Head Right plus you got a scene that's very
contaminated Plus on top of that just look at the pictures we're talking about a to me extremely
messy house which I would think would make investigating a crime scene way harder
so how does this all work out if in fact it was an intruder in my mind this is how it plays out again I'm not willing
to say this is 100% I'm not willing to not say that there are other possibilities this is at the end of the
day I put 51% of my eggs in this basket if this is how the Intruder Theory goes down this is how it works
and makes sense for me yeah that she was targeted somebody broke into the home with the intention of abducting this
child for the purpose of sexual assault they may have broke into the home before or after the family came
home I don't know it seems to point to me more likely that they may have entered entered the home while the
ramies were gone right during this time they brought with them a letter that they
copied using stuff that they found in the home using the felt pen we know that occurred using Psy's notepad we know
that occurred yeah and writing it why they have gloves on so we don't leave any DNA or fingerprints the difficulty
with the letter itself is we have Burke didn't write it according to the analyst
johnan write it and then they put paty at the low end of the spectrum for possibly writing
it I know I'm reminding myself that we said earlier it would be irresponsible to eliminate anybody based off of
handwriting analysis the thing here though Captain is what would be the purpose of a ransom
letter I also stated and I believe you backed me up on this that the letter itself is a farce what I meant by that
is that there was no there was never any belief by the the author of that letter
or desire to actually collect any money from the family right the letter itself was simply a giant speed bump to
persuade the family not to contact the police and give this sick individual more time with the
victim Nick that never happens why would why would they add to the added risk of
of putting themselves out there like that just to buy some more time well I can point to one situation where in fact
did happen Amy mahalic was abducted from the shopping plaza and allowed to call her mother at work after
being in the presence of the abductor yeah simply for the reason of delaying the
mother being aware that there was something wrong and guess what if the ramies would have followed the
instructions on that Ransom letter they wouldn't have contacted the police but they
did one thing that I find weird about the note we never discussed this uh the other day here Captain but one thing
that I found extremely strange with inside the note itself was how the author speaks an absolute loots
all the way up to one point and then leaves the window open for a little bit of possibility a little bit of
opportunity to foil the abductor plan where the author says if you do this she dies if you do
this she dies if you don't cooperate with us you run the risk of her being beheaded and then we will deny you her
body all these absolutes she dies beheaded denied the body right but then later it
states if you try to outsmart us you stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter right if you follow our
instructions you stand a 100% chance of getting your daughter back again an absolute but then that
99% I I that's what's been keeping me up at night why would the author leave that
one percentage chance that the Ramsay could foil the plan and and I think that's because the
author really wanted them to believe that the author was in control and they if they followed their
Instructions Not only would would they get their daughter back but at the very least if they didn't contact the police
there was still a 1% chance that the ramsy could outsmart the attacker I think what
occurred really man was that the the note was constructed to buy more time who knows how long this indiv idual
intended to keep right but right but you believe the note was it was authentic in a sense that the
author wanted the ramies to believe it but it happened before he actually yes because if he killed John
Benet he would have never wrote the note to begin with right the note gets a ransom note gets the FBI involved which
I think is another thing which not everybody knows that but it's like if the family was trying to cover up a
murder and you then put a ransom note into play now you have the FBI involved and I wish the FBI was involved from the
beginning because if they would have been I think this case would be solved by now yeah if they wouldn't have
located her body in the basement that quickly if that would have gone 24 hours the FBI would have taken over this case
in this investigation regardless of finding her body later the interesting thing here though Captain I think where
this whole thing gets messy it's a complicated case because there are all these things that you have to explain
and you have to explain them and they're not easily explained away because there
are things that point to the letter being constructed not only in the home but by maybe somebody that lived
there nothing is easily explained away because the crime didn't go and it wasn't carried out in the manner that it
was intended to had he been able to remove her from the home right alive I want to that's how my
theory goes this would have looked and taken on a whole different appearance it would have taken on a whole different
investigation something happened where he realized or determined in the moment that he couldn't get her out of the
house I don't know what that is but whatever it is I'm backing up that the motivating factor for this
abduction which I believe is what was the intention here was sexual assault was because this individual had already
taken the risk to get what they wanted and when they could not get her out of the house they assaulted her inside the
home struck her over the head to make sure that she was dead and then left or possibly got spooked and I but I believe
that this person knew the house well they knew that by if you can get her down to the basement you're now putting
two floors between you and her and her parents now do you think this case is solvable I was actually listening to
somebody on the way here to the garage that was you know an expert in my opinion a very good expert
that was saying they believe the case is still has the potential to be solved based off off of forensic
evidence personally I don't feel very good about this case ever being solved and the problem with that is that's
without that's with the exception of having a somebody come forward saying I did this this is how I did it and then
they can pull some evidence together and go yep we can back up this individual story because of this this and this
right where I think this case lends itself to be unsolvable let's say is in a court of law if you make an
arrest and somebody isn't willing to confess to the murder I think it's going to be very difficult to convict based
off of public opinion you could move this case you know some cases they do a change of venue because the either the
perpetrator doesn't stand a chance or there's problems with the case whatever right you can move this case to Mars and
it's it's still a mess it's still convoluted mess there are people out there that feel so strongly about their
opinion and that's why that's why part of me only is willing to go 51% in on this Intruder theory on my thoughts on
the case because I understand why so many people are are firm in their beliefs and
in their opinions of this case because just like you pointed out earlier you watch CBS and you go yep I think they
nailed it now I know what to believe right you watch the A&E thing same thing but it's a it's a different answer it's
a different response you read Steve Thomas's book you absolutely believe paty did it you know it it's really
comes from whoever you get your information from and I actually don't believe that anybody is out there trying
to skew this in any way that's malicious or that's trying to deceive the audience
right I think that there there is evidence that you could arue AR either way and if you choose to argue it all
one way it makes a good case for whatever your opinion or your theory is on the case well and Henry Lee said that
he didn't he say that he believes that this is not just a DNA solvable case well I believe what his statement was
that he believes that the DNA is of no value to eliminate somebody as a suspect or to convict them in a court of law one
so one I think they need to try to come to some kind of understanding and some conclusion with
the DNA to figure out is it a single male is there a mixture I know that they were talking about doing tests back in
uh 2016 and 2017 I have not I could not find any new results of those because if we do know
because what they could do is they could test that mixture with female DNA and if
they have any trace of female DNA that pops in then they would more likely it's a mixture and now we got to go back to
the drawing boards but I think they need to figure that out for one but all all accounts state that it's male DNA it was
taken from a um right but it's not clear if it's two or three or just one yeah that I don't don't know I do know that
it was taken from a um a dual blood sample if you want to call it that I don't know if that's the best way to
describe it right but what that tells me is that they're taking this fluid and they're finding DNA in the fluid and if
they're saying that it's coming from a dual sample then they've already been able to identify what that other where
that other sample is coming from right meaning it came the most obvious answer is the other DNA comes from John Benet
right and so if they're able to make that conclusion then I don't think they can rule out 100% that it's
not U you know more than one DNA but it sounds to me what they are able to conclude is what they're looking at they
believe 100% to be male unknown male or unidentified male DNA I think what Lee what Henry Henry Lee and several other
experts are trying to point out regarding this DNA itself is that the type of DNA it is is not it's not
indicative of anything that that may have occurred during the commission of any of these crimes regardless of of
what crimes you believe took place this DNA does not have to be there because of
a sexual assault this DNA does not have to be there because of a murder what they're saying is the problem with the
DNA ultimately right now is that they don't know where it came from and they don't know how long it was there right
meaning there's a chance it worked its way there after the fact after she was already killed after the perpetrator
fled or after John and paty started covering up the crime right that there's a chance that that DNA has nothing to do
with the murder of this child and that is the problem and until they can figure out
you might be able to clear that up if you can figure out where it came from if there it would be a way for you to prove
that it's impossible for it to end up on the body after the fact that it could have only ended up on her during the
commission of these crimes right but if I'm talking with John Ramsay and and John says to me I want to hire you for
this case I'd say John the first thing we need to do is look at this DNA and we need to come to some
consensus with multiple experts I'd also want to pull in some investigators that
that believe that it was the family I'd want to pull them in and to have them help with the investigation because they
would be our checks and balances I also think they need to figure out the stun gun Theory I don't
know if they can still do it but I know at the time they would would have been able to uh dig her up and do some tests
to figure out if these were train tracks marks or possibly a stun gun or neither
or right and I think that's important I also think this digital molestation that's
what I'm going to call it that possibly happened on the 22nd or 23rd or the and then then happen the the
day of the murder now I say the day of the murder because that I believe was in the report and I'm going to throw out
this Theory and I think there's some investigation that should be done this is not this is finger
molestation they believe a finger was Insider now you can you can explain it away in multiple different you know with
the wiping uh aggressive wiping and and different things but most people believe
this is some form of molestation I would also argue you have children playing on the 23rd not always
supervised and then the same thing happens on the 25th was there is there a kid involved and here I'll just put it out
there if is it possible a kid did this and wasn't meaning harmed by it it was just a kid not knowing any better is
that making any sense at all it certainly makes some sense to me but I think that the evidence is showing that
to me it shows that the digital manipulation right is what they they term it occurred and it probably
occurred near at or near the time of her death which I would lean that way I'm just saying is is this a something that
we can again it's just like with the train track marks or the stun gun marks I think it starts narrowing things down
so if we can come to a consensus of that this there was some kind of I'm going to
call it digital molestation because it's molestation is this happening at the time of her death ruling that out I also
think because there's too many coincidences when you look at Santa bill there's too many odd things his
daughter was kidnapped 22 years before on the date it's an unsolved kidnapping technically yes they find John Benet
Ramsey in her house but there's a ransom note so to me it's technically a kidnapping it's an unsolved
kidnapping and this guy like I said I I looked as much as I could into this bear that was found and
you can look at the crime scene photos and see this bear on the bed I want to know if it really came from that pageant
if they can prove that but here's what we do now Santa bill was hired by multiple people and worked multiple
locations we have tons of evidence out there and here's something that the public could actually look for if your
child had any picture with Santa bill is there a bear that matches this description I think if it does that's
enough of a reason for us to go hey this this guy needs to be looked into further
the other thing I would want to know is in your Santa Claus outfit most Santa Claus is we wear black
boots I would like to see anybody that has a picture with Santa Bill what boots are what boots is um is he wearing at
the time and is it possible that they're Hightech which would be the marks that were found the shoe shoe prints that
were found in the base so I think those are things that people can look into now and and get us closer to some
answers it was determined that there were more than 100 burglaries in the Ramsay's neighborhood in the months
before John Ben's murder there were 38 registered sex offenders living within a 2m radius of the Ramsay's
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JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

Episode 6 of 6

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On December 26th 1996, 6-year old JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in the basement of her home in Boulder, Colorado. Her case remains unsolved. Beer of the Week - Christmas Ale by Great Lakes Brewing Co. Garage Grade - 5 out of 5 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

The episode covers the unsolved murder of JonBenét Ramsey, discussing suspects, DNA evidence, and police investigation failures.

Key points

The Mystery of JonBenét Ramsey. Explore the chilling details surrounding the unsolved murder of JonBenét Ramsey.
John Mark Carr's Confession. In 2006, John Mark Carr confessed to JonBenét's murder, but was he telling the truth?
DNA Evidence Dilemma. DNA found at the crime scene did not match Carr's, complicating the case further.
Aggravating Investigation. The investigation is described as aggravating yet fascinating due to its complexities.
The War Begins. John Ramsey feels disrespected by police actions during the investigation.
The Complexity of Theories. The case presents numerous bizarre theories about what happened to JonBenét.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You can't trust the test.

Carr's skepticism about DNA evidence.

6:01WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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