JonBenet: The Master Detective /// Part 2 /// 719 | Forensic Files

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okay so your mentor or I I can call Lou your one of your mentors right he he is yes and so he's brought on this I mean
it's one of the most high-profile cases ever right and he is going into it with the idea like you said well this should
be pretty simple MH but he's also going into it with the idea that they want to know the truth at some point he's
hit like with a brick wall right do you remember having any conversations with him about his frustration
and and and what he felt that he needed to do um we had many discussions and you
know I don't know if it was a brick wall immediately but he he definitely um came
across evidence that didn't support the Ramsay did it and the more he got into it the more more evidence supported the
Intruder Theory as as he developed it and then I think after it was it was more than a couple weeks it might have
been a month or two I think that's when he realized that there was a brick wall that he was being stonewalled and when
he would bring up information to the um uh Boulder uh police um it would be dismissed or or they would try to
um exclude the evidence through some some rationale for example when Lou pointed out in the cramin photos taken
that morning of the basement with that window standing wide open and the suitcase standing up right below it and
there's also what Lou thought was to be a black scuff mark on the wall so when when he's pointing to the crime scene
photos that Boulder police crime scene technicians had taken and he's showing the detectives that that is evidence of
forc Entry one of the first things the Boulder Police said is oh no no nobody could gotten in that window well Lou Lou
is frustrated because he's trying to explain well well that's how John B's dad got into the home when he left his
keys in the house and and so what Lou did is he um had himself vide taped crawling in and out of that window and
Lou I think at the time was I don't know he was always in good shape I think he was probably mid-60s at the time but he
would show that you know I I can get in and out that window here watch and he had had himself videotaped and then
showed that videotape to the boulder detectives and they would just ignore it and and then they would you know go on
you know to something else and Lua that's what was really so frustrating was you would confront them with
physical evidence and then they would dismiss it a good example is the this the foreign D DNA that was under the
little girl's fingernails on the crotch of her panties and then in 2008 it was also determined to be on below the
waistband of her of the long johnon that she was wearing for for pajama bottoms and so when Lou pointed out that not
only does that exclude the any members of the Ramsey family it gives us something to work with because it's it
it it's male so we can stop looking at at women being involved unless there you know is a conspiracy here or someone
else involved but he said we we need to find out who who's who who's the the male who left that foreign DNA um uh on
her clothing and on her body and so what the Boulder police would do is they would say you know that could be
anything you know that that might have been U you know casual contact you know DNA that was you know from trace or
touch DNA that was left you know for casual contact and what Lou would say was that makes no sense he said you know
I I don't know you're thinking but um anytime that there's unknown male DNA found on the crotch of a little
girl's panties that's that's not uh you know casual touch that's that's evidence
of of uh something that's that's really wrong but then it's the same it matches the genetic markers are the same that's
underneath the fingernails and when the the the genetic material this tissue that is is forcibly under her
fingernails that was found the autopsy that's evidence of her clawing and scratching
that her a salent you know try trying to um uh breathe she's fighting for her life and they just no that you know that
that's not what that means and LU just would would just be just beside himself she I can't understand how you can you
know just simply try to just dismiss this evidence because it doesn't fit with your theory that that the ramies
have done it did you ever meet olly gray oh yes I knew olly very well and in fact
when I was a sheriff he came to work for me for a few months as my comp troller know knew him very very well could you
tell our listeners most of our listeners will not know who he is could you tell our listeners who Ali gray was in his in
relation to the the Ramsay case yes Oli was a a friend of Blues as well and um there was another person that that is
very important here too John St Augustine and when um John ran after Le had had resigned from the bowler DA's
office he continued working the case for himself but uh on his own his own time his own expense but he he didn't want it
to look like he was working for the Ramsay so he would never take any money from the ramies and he wanted to
objectively investigate the case not at the direction of the Ramsay so when the Ramsay said well we really need to hire
some competent private investigators because bowler police obviously were not going to be able to clear this on their
own own and so Lou recommended olly gray and John St Augustine John had also worked for me at the sher's office and a
bright young investigator Olie has since passed on John is still around but um uh
they worked the case um as private investigators for the Ramsey family for some time maybe for for a year or two
and I know that that and Allie did have a law enforcement background from California and um new investigations was
a very competent pi and I know he stayed in and John St aain stayed in touch with
Lou and they had frequent um discussions and I I uh and I I don't know specifically what
Lou would have given them or received from them but I do know Lou is very good about sharing information and
particularly if it fit into um uh a profile or a suspect or Person of Interest that um the Ramsay's private
investigators were were pursuing so I know Lou was very supportive and and U hoping that olly and John would would
have some some some success but it's my understanding Ali gray was the only individual in all these Decades of this
case dragging on and on he's the only person that ever worked for both sides of the table correct he worked for
with Boulder for a while and then decided to go and work with the ramies and while working with the ramies
it's my understanding he told John Ramsay immediately look if I find anything that suggests that that you or
paty or Burke that somebody inside the Ramsey household did this I'm turning it into Boulder immediately is that correct
correct except for one exception he NE oie never worked with the Boulder Police Department or the Sheriff's Office
direct directly he did work with um Lou and I at the El Paso County Sheriff's Office but when he was hired by the
ramsy he had left the DA's office he had already been retired from law enforcement agency in California when I
hired him to come into the sheriff's office but you're you're right not only he but John St Augustine and Lou had
they ever come across any evidence that you know that uh a that um suggested any of the ramies were
involved they would have definitely turned that over that was that was the kind of people that they were they
wouldn't sit on that even if they were uh uh employed by the ramies they would have resigned that position and then
turned in the information that's they were very E look OE was very ethical that way what are the the keys to this
investigation as far as getting it solved the evidence I know that you point to five very vital pieces of
evidence that support Lou Smith's Intruder Theory could you take us through those five vital pieces of
evidence happy to the first one is the Paracord and uh the second one is the um uh black duct tape the third one is the
stun gun the um and and all those those three items are still uh valid with this
exception that after 27 years whether or not we can find the Paracord you know that the that the bindage was was
removed for or the parent roll from the duct tape or the stun gun at this point in the possession of the Killer is very
doubtful um the fourth item of evidence that Lou always talked about that supported his Intruder theory was the um
high-tech bootprint and what Lou did not know and I did not know this until after
the the book had been published um one of the other team members that's on our spint family team Kurt pillard came
across a report um in a um a Boulder Police um supplemental report that got released after lose passing in 2010 and
it and this this lab report talked about at least one or may might have been more
than one Boulder police officers who were in the crime scene did admit to having high-tech boots U so um what L
didn't know is that bootprint very easily could have belonged to one of the First Responders one of that bre of
Boulder please so we we have we don't put a lot of credibility onto that bootprint but the most important piece
of evidence the fifth piece evidence that Lou always believed would be the the what solved this case was the
unknown male DNA that's on three pieces of uh her the clothing two pieces of clothing Long John's the the underwear
and then under her um uh fingernails U and the scrapings that that came from the autopsy and um and
um our team one of the things that we've been working with is the genetic markers
the DNA markers that Lou left um in his case report that thata supplemental reports investigative notes that were
passed down to his family that our team has had access to that th those three locations the the the DNA genetic
markers do fit now we didn't have a complete set I think I think there's at least 14 maybe 15 genetic markers now
but it is sufficient to to have it into the codus the combined DNA information system that the FBI maintains one other
uh piece of uh positive news a couple things just to leave the interview on a uh kind of on a on an upnote a hopeful
note that that our team um and I think the Ramsey family also finds some comfort is that um the the the DNA
technology has evolved so sign significantly in the last 27 years that that law enforcement agencies are
clearing cold cases that are 20 25 30 years old by going back to the original evidence the the original article of
evidence and retesting that using more modern DNA Technologies and what what what is h what has been so um uh uh
helpful is that what we use to uh have to look at when you when you did DNA analysis maybe you know 15 or 20 years
ago it was being measured in um nanograms which is a very small minute amount but today the technology is is
able and I'm not a DNA expert but but it it is known that the DNA can be measured
now in picograms which are significantly smaller um uh um amounts and so that's highly encouraging the
second part of that is that the databases every year keep growing exponentially whether it's law
enforcement databases or public um or private DNA uh databases and that's how a lot of cases that that you all know
about um have been solved like the Golden State killer they didn't actually have the killer DNA they were able to
get into the familial DNA and uh found a relative I think it was a niece who lived in another state and her DNA um
showed that the Killer's DNA that they shared a common ancestor and that's what we hope um and that was one of the
reasons to to get the book out was to encourage law enforcement agencies to continue to do that the other
encouraging thing just within the last few months is that the Boulder Police have released um uh statements and and
the boulder district attorney have um made comments that um uh that the case is being looked at the evidence is being
re-evaluated and um using more modern Technologies the district attorney in Boulder um the now da Michael dhy he
even commented in the news uh recently that the FBI are also assisting and that's very encouraging because the FBI
has some very right people um uh you know they they have access to some Cutting Edge Technologies and DNA and of
course they maintain the U cotus the the the national DNA database so what we were really hopeful in in in going into
this holiday season is that there's never been a better time for this case the John Ben Ramsey case to be solved
then now that I think um the family Fields this too the Smith family team that we hope the Boulder Police and the
law enforcement agencies that around them now um are doing everything that they can to take an objective look at
the the physical evidence using modern Technologies for DNA analysis and hopefully that will identify the person
responsible for the crime which in some people's mind will be the only way for the Ramsey family ever to be removed
from that umbrella of Suspicion yeah and if it gets solved it grants lose d wish
because I I don't think people understand how and and I think when you were if you
use the word obsessed that sometimes people use that as a bad thing he's on his deathbed yeah and his family wants
to talk about good times and there's video footage that I've seen where he's like no no you guys need to listen to me
and he's going Page by Page in his in his case files to explain to him what each page means and uh he set up that
list of people that I know that they've been uh going through and and trying to get DNA and testing through that list so
as much as you want Justice for this little girl and and her family and for that Community uh I really believe it U
if there ever is um an arrest that Lou is is is uh directly responsible for that
you're you're so right because I would never written the book had it not been for for Lou and not only do we want
Justice for John Benet and of course on a personal note I'd I'd really like to see Lou um is is the to be proven right
and and the family being the Ramsay family being able to enjoy regular Christmas and not have to worry about
this if if that's possible U our Smith family team we talk about this all the time too we meet probably once a month
or or every five or six weeks we've got uh our list from Lou you know of our top
20 people that we continue to to work on and what we would love to do as a team is to be able to close all of our
investigation down too and and just live a normal life like like everybody else this has taken a lot of time and energy
and and we had all made such a commitment to Lou that we just can't back away from that
um that was it was a really emotional time for all of us and for Lou when he was diagnosed with cancer when it
returned and and admitted to hospital or hospice uh he was able to go home for for a couple of weeks and he had a
visiting nurse and I know that's when he put a lot more of the case in organized
it a little bit better for us because he knew he wasn't going to get around to many of those those leads but his last
several weeks in hospice as he continued every time I would would go see him every couple of days you know he was
slipping a little further and a little further and um the last three days when I before he passed he was pretty much in
a coma we weren't able to have any communication two way I'd sit and talk to him and hold his hands but when uh
when he was able to talk yeah we' talk about the good times and laugh about things and are friends and joke and and
uh I remember uh he said you know hey one of the good things about hospice is they let you eat or drink you know
anything you want even though we didn't have much of an appetite at the end but they' say yeah I want ice cream and it's
you know the middle the morning or whatever or beer I know I walked in one time and I don't know if the nurses knew
this but he had a six-pack of beer that one of the detectives had brought in so we enjoyed another beer together last
beer but uh the conversations always would come around and say now don't forget bootman and and saying don't
forget so and so and remember to look at this and don't forget about the evidence
and and those were our last conversations it was it was it was foremost on his mind and and you're
you're right Nick I don't think obsessed is the right word I think it was just driven or dedicated I I think uh you
know people uh probably have a hard time you know um grasping that but Lou was such a unique um man and such a u a
consant professional and he' never believed he worked for you know the police department or you know Sergeant
so and so or Captain so and so he always he always said I work for the victim and
I think that was was really his uh his take on the Ramsay case he didn't work for John or paty or any of the Ramsey
family he worked for for John Benet that was that was who he he worked for and Lou one of his dying wishes was that
this case would finally be solved and we also have go back in time paty Ramsay on her deathbed asking Lou
to find out who did this yes that was a conversation that Lou and that Lou shared with me um when pany was on her
deathbed in hospice Lou flew down to Atlanta to see her one last time and um part of that you know he told me later
was to see if she wanted to give it dying confession not that he ever thought she'd ever confess to that but
he wanted to make sure he closed that door and so she didn't give dying confession she gave the opposite she
gave him the charge you know to to to continue pursuing the this killer don't don't don't give up and and that that
really did motivate Lou not that he needed additional motivation but I I think u i I know that that was a a emotional
trip when he he went to visit her that last time and um when Lou was in hospice John Ramsey came and visited Lou and um
that was um John Ramsey told me he said that he said I tried to go in to give Lou encouragement and cheer him up but
he said it turned out to be the other way around um yeah Lou was quite a quite a
guy tell everybody about the jbr Smith family team I know you've talked about it just a little bit but really tell us
what that is what is the objective what is the strategy that you're employing to
try to reach those goals great question and thanks for for bringing that in Nick
it um when Lou passed away in 2010 he had all of his uh investigative notes he had put together a spread sheet
883 um um entries on this spreadsheet 53 columns uh he had a a PowerPoint presentation that grown to 632 slides
and he showed me this as it's evolving and he had all of his investigative notes and crime scene photos and autopsy
photos and autopsy reports and and he had everything so organized that when you'd walk into his home he said hey I
want I want to show you this and so we were very familiar with what he had put together and then when he passed away
all of his his his wife Barb had already pass pass away from cancer a few years before so all of Lou's investigative
notes and his computer and his case File all was part of his estate that got passed down to his four children and
within about a month of his uh passing um uh his middle daughter Cindy called me and she said hey John he she said you
know hey we've got all the dad's you know investigative notes and his spreadsheet and and everything and he
said you know we're we're going to assemble a team um and do what Dad said um and and continue working this case
because we don't believe Boulder will ever solve this on their own and and Lou left us with all of this information to
work with will you come and be a part of the team and before I could answer yes or no because I was I'd retired from the
Sheriff's Office and I was working for locki Martin and doing a lot of travel and and but before I could say yes or no
she said and Dave Spencer's already agreed to be a part of it because she she knew how close Dave and I were to to
to one another as well as to and so when she told me Dave Spencer was on board already I said okay I I'm in because I
knew how organized Dave was and what a competent detective he was as well as a private investigator when he retired
from the PD so um so since 2010 the Smith family jbr John Ben Ramsey jbr team we've been meeting um at Le once a
month or maybe every six weeks probably an average of 10 10 times a year um and what we do is we go through our top 20
list we've gone out um on more than a dozen cases of Persons of Interest left from Lou where we'll um try to obtain
that person's DNA and um submit it to the lab we we pay for the DNA analysis U on our own um after a few years the
first few years we just had to pass the Hat because we didn't have any money and
and um U but after a few years Cindy did put together a GoFundMe um uh account and um we had budgeted at that time for
our top 20 we were averaging about $5,000 per test and that included the travel to fly out to um hotel if we had
to stay somewhere and then in the lab analysis that was a good average so we thought to get our top 20 we would need
100,00 ,000 so that was our um GoFundMe account Target last I looked I think we were up to like 62 or
63,000 and um uh that might be one thing we could do Nick and Captain is is if I
send you the link maybe you can you know make that available you know to your listeners um there there's three
different accounts only one of them is connected to our our team and so I want to make sure everybody gets the the
right the right one but um we've had some very generous uh donations and you can look on there and you can see you
know who's donated and how much the Ramsay family um Jeff Ramsey's contributed several times that's John's
brother one of the neat things we had was um a lady who had read my book that I'd never met she called me and she said
um John I'm in really impressed with your book and we really want to see your Smith Family Team succeed and she said
I'm prepared today to make a 10,000 ,000 donation and I sent her the link you know and you you kind of think well you
know is this a scam you know are they going to want my you know account number or whatever but she was true to her word
within hours we had a $10,000 uh donation from an anonymous source and that that's helped a lot and uh I think
we have we have several thousand dollars in there now but I know the Ramsey family have said you know hey if if you
guys start running low you you let us know and we'll contribute and sometimes we've we've gone out and actually
approached somebody who was on the the list and a lot of these names are known you know they've been in other people's
books and and so we'll go up to to somebody and contact them and say Hey you know you were brought up as a
potential suspect you know back in 97 or 98 and and and if they were falsely accused would say you know we can give
you an opportunity to clear yourself if you want and and we'll pay for it and um
so sometimes we've had a couple of Persons of Interest willingly give us a a DNA it's usually
just a an oral swab on a qtip that we submit to the lab and um a couple of times you know they kind of hesitated
and we said well if we gave you $300 or $500 would that would that um um you know work better for you so we we have
paid for a few DNA samples and when we when we when we get a sample off of discarded DNA or whatever we we hold her
breath you know hoping that this is the one and um it takes a painful amount of time to get the analysis back and so
we've had many disappointments um that that that we sent in somebody that could be a strong person that was on loose
list and it comes back negative but I keep hearing my uh former partner's voice in my ear saying okay now we know
who didn't do it let's let's move on to the next one next man up [Music] if you're a parent and you want to help
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your 50% off at rosettastone.com garaget [Music] toay so you have people that you've
eliminated you have a top 20 Persons of Interest list and these are lists that you at one time shared with Boulder PD
correct absolutely yeah we've shared that list in confidence then we when we've eliminated somebody on our top 20
we go back to lose spreadsheet and we take the next most likely person and bump them up into the top 20 uh Lou left
it uh his 883 entry SP spreadsheet in four tiers Tier 1 2 3 4 tier one is who we thought needed the the most most look
and he had he had eliminated U probably over 100 people well maybe not that many
anyway he had eliminated a number of people before he passed on and then our team is eliminated and and rep
prioritized I think last count was like 23 other other names some of them you know was a name that was brought up as a
potential suspect and then once you look at them you can say well can't be this guy because you know he died in you know
95 or this guy was in prison since 93 or or whatever so so you can eliminate some
without doing the DNA but the ones that remain we we look at oh who was most likely being Boulder was there some
motive um you know uh we also because of Lou had access to the boulder um uh DNA
um lab reports that showed you know who had been eliminated previously so we were able to you know exclude some of
those but when we when we gave our top 20 to Boulder Police we've done this a couple of times and the boulder da who
said you know if there's somebody on this list that you've already eliminated could you please let us know that way
we're not bothering them or we're not you know wasting our time and money and our first meeting with the da is he
agreed to do that and then the second meeting six months later um they refused to to do that but we still keep s
sending them the the names that we've eliminated we let them know who we're we're looking at but um yeah so far um
as Commander tro told me going in that you know this is a one-way Street we're not sharing any information with you Tom
tro was was the C commander of the um homicide unit for for years he'd been on the original crime scene and uh one time
was a friend of mine but um Tom Tom was a um disciplined along with five other Boulder detectives in Jan in December of
last year for not thoroughly investigating their cases and he was removed as the captain of detectives and
put into Patrol on midnights and then these other detectives either left or were um disciplined for not uh
thoroughly investigating their cases the Boulder Police public information officer put out a statement that had
nothing to do with a John B Ramsey case but I voice maintained it had everything
to do with a jumy Ramsey case because unfortunately that was the culture that L bumped up to in 96 and 97 was they
just were not interested or didn't know how or didn't have the right supervision
you know to thoroughly investigate their their cases so there is a new captain um
Commander there's um new detectives there's new leadership there's a different police chief and that was
their back this happen so we're uh our team our Smith family team we're continuing to to meet and pursue our top
20 list but we're also wishing Boulder Police the FBI whoever is involved in this case coloral Bure investigation uh
much success because we we just love to see the case solv for the family and and
um be able to close this case once and for all I I should also mention mo one of the other motivations is like with
with the Heather daon Church case is the likelihood of this killer as violent as
a crime as this is that this being a a a oneof is is minimal you know this this is the type of a violent um pedophile
that you know just doesn't start off you know at that that level of violence you
know they they increase their ummo um M operand they they they they fine-tune that they get more and more
violent more and more cre native and so the likelihood that there's not victims before and and most likely after um this
murder is is minimal so I I think like with the heatherd Don Church case who whenever this person's identified
there's a strong likelihood that there'll be a pattern of um violent offenses so we we hope that it's solved
not just to get Justice for John Benet and prove Lou right but more importantly is to get this this violent pedophile
off off the street if he's still out there do you have and I know I we don't want to get too specific about names
here on on either one of your list but as far as your Persons of Interest go and you have a top 20 Lou had a
spreadsheet that had many more names on it than that are all of these persons identified like or any of them
referenced and not identified by name all of ours are identified by name and our top 20 there are several with lose
um entries when you look at the 883 you'll see a nickname or you'll see someone referred to as a landscaper for
example um but but or a plumber who had been in the house three months before something and uh Lou Lou was convinced
that the killer had access to the home before the night of the murder it just seems like knew where things were
located and um Lou believed that he probably even went through that that um window in the in the basement uh before
that night so Lou was looking um very carefully at other people who had access to the home and so there were a few
people on his list that didn't have a name but were referenced to in some capacity a good example most people know
who followed this case know um the reference to Santa Claus that person was later identified and and through DNA
that person was eliminated as a potential uh suspect but yes to answer your question there are some that are
either known as a nickname or partial name or or some some tagline do you recall if the running man is on that
list oh I remember something about the Running Man H I'd have to go back and look yeah the Running Man is always kind
of spooked me a bit and I don't know that there's much known about him other than one or two persons saying that they
thought they saw a tall Slender Man running uh in the area at some point that yeah I know our teams yeah it goes
back a few years we did spend some time on on this running man Theory but um I don't I don't know that that was ever R
um tracked down or identified H I'll have to look into that good thought Captain do you have any uh last
questions I got I got like a mill a million there's only 100, questions in this case but Mr Anderson you had a
correct me if I'm wrong but with the uh you know I read the book months and months ago CU it came out early this
year and I believe you said in the book that you have a do you have a website or
somewhere that people can go to view more information about the case yes yeah thank you I I should have mentioned that
earlier um my publisher for Lou and John Benet is wild blue press and they have um a website and what I did with
permission of the F of lose family is in the book The hard cover and the soft cover I have 36 slides that uh from
Lou's original presentation that are are printed in in the book in the middle of
the book kind of like photos in my audio book um obviously since you wouldn't have you know access
to those photos my publisher offered to host the photos that I wanted to include
on their website while bless.com and if you look up my book Lou and John benay instead of doing the same 36 photos that
are in the book we picked 20 other photos that are not in the book crime scene photos so if you if you compare
the two that's 56 slides of L's that he put together they're all his notes and um I think that gives people uh a really
good overview of the crime scene the autopsy nothing overly gory or bloody there but um there are a few autopsy
photos like for example the stun gun marks and um so if if anybody's interested in in looking at the slides
that L put together I think that the WildBlue press.com is real is is very good for that and then they've also put
together a couple of good um oh let's see there's been some blogs and some other things that they've done a good
job with and what we'll do Nick or Captain if one of you when this is finished and and you put it out if
you'll send me a link I'll get that added to the uh website for wild blue press uh as well another thing that was
really incredible with your book that is just I mean there's no shortage of books
about the John Benet case but this is the only book that I've seen that features the floor diagrams the layout
of the complete house the first floor second floor third floor it has every room of the house in the basement
included so I thought that was if you don't understand the crime scene there's no way to understand the case and so to
include stuff like that in a case that's been so convoluted over the years and in
a case where people are so heavily charged up about their Theory or thoughts of who did it but there's still
a lot of information out there that that most people just don't know so thank you
for including those diagrams in your book very welcome and that that's a very good observation and I can't take credit
for that because that's vintage L SMI he's the one who put together those four diagrams um using his computer and um
uh so uh I think that that shows why this book is unique is because Lou had access to the crime scene personally I
mean he he went there and he took those measurements to make that those diagrams
and to see how you know where was the evidence found where is this blue suitcase at where's this baseball at
baseball V bat at and I think what makes the book unique and I realized that I was in the unique position
to or a position of responsibility to to get those out there was because I was one of the few people that that had
access to lose spreadsheet and his his case File and his notes thanks to his family so yes I think that is what's
different from other books because a lot of the other authors you know um studied
you know was in the newspaper might have gotten copies of reports but Lou was actually there he he was in the crime
scene um I I've been to the Ramsey former Ramsey home several times but I was never inside but Lou was many many
times so he had an intimate understanding of the of the um crime scene inside and and out one other thing
that um and thank you for the nice compliments about my book it any book as you guys know is a is a team effort and
um one of the things that I most proud of on the book is the cover and one of the few uh requests I made of of my
publisher wild blue press was I had two photos that I had one of Lou and uh that
was the first day in the Sheriff's Office January 10th 1995 when we were both sworn in I became the sheriff he
became my C detective so I wanted that photo of Lou one of my favorite photos on the cover and then the photo of John
Benet was one of my favorite photos and I had a different photo that came out a loose case File of her in her
kindergarten class and um I sent them to as a mockup of the cover to her dad and
I said hey John these are the this is kind of what the cover is looking like and and you know I did not want a
glamour shot there were too many books out there with that and Lou never saw saw John Benet as a beauty queen he
always saw her as a little innocent little kindergartener as she as she was and so um when I sent the the other
mockup of the book cover to her dad um he sent me a nice little email and he said I like that photo too but he said
John could you use this one instead he said it was John benet's first day of kindergarten and he said it's one of my
favorite photos and paty took that photo right be um uh right before she put her
in the car and took her to her first day of kindergarten and it's a it's a neat little photo because it shows her with
her little backpack slung over her shoulder and she's got a little plastic Apple that has treats or something for
the kids I don't actually know what's in there and then her little dog jock and it's a cute little outfit that I'm sure
py picked out to wear for the first day of kindergarten but I think it gives you
a real look at two important photos two people who never met and are forever linked in history through this case is
there something as you guys have looked through you know it's been a team effort
to look through lose Case Files is there something that you feel like he got wrong what a good question well
certainly the high-tech boot we've had to take you know um a step back on that um yeah because I remember talking to
him specifically about that bootprint and he said yep he said none of the Boulder Police um uh you know have been
confirmed to wear high-tech boots they've been asked they didn't um let's see so I'm convinced he's he he just
didn't have the right information uh I can't really say he was wrong on that um let's see
h no I think uh yeah I can't think of of anything else I think um I think it's the opposite I think the
more and more our team you know have gone through the lab analysis the reports the more we realize that he was
spot on a good example of that was the DNA the initial reports had um under like the fingernails and I can't
remember the exact numbers I think there were like six genetic markers on the two
hands left and right initially and I think there were like nine that came off of the underwear then they were the same
six or or one that that were on the nine and so Lou was was convinced you know this was from the same person the 2008
analysis with the long johns now here's a different article of clothing and it gives us I think there was 11 or 12
genetic markers on that one there were more anyway but it was the same six that were in the fingernails that were on the
long johns the same nine that were on the underwear so it what what it's done Nick is it's kind of done the opposite
every time we get a little bit more physical evidence a little more cooperating evidence information it
really substantiates that Lou was right all along yeah and I think a lot of people that have looked into this case
after Lou they nitpick things like where they go just like the window I think what
Lou was able to prove is cuz there was a lot of speculation that that the ramies
would leave d unlocked or people that worked for the Rams would say not only were the doors unlocked but there would
be a jar and and there was it's such a big house that you know John Ramsey would come downstairs and have to start
shutting windows and shutting doors and locking things because the kids would just leave things
open but I also think he proved like well even if there was locked doors and locked Windows here's a way that the
Intruder could get in right and I think that's where I think people nitpick they
go well there's no proof that somebody went through there but it's like no he he's just pointing out that there's the
possibility if there was an unlocked door or a Jarred door then the Intruder could have got in that way I've always
argued that possibly they went through the window or possibly went through a door but I I believe that the the
Intruder was trying to leave through that window and I think and Lou definitely would have agreed with you and and again
you know having the the body found in the basement just you know within I don't know how many feet from that
window the scuff mark below the window um there were there were some um other things that you know LED Lou to believe
that that was likely the POI the point of entry but also the point of exit and what Lou knew being an experienced uh
police officer most burglars that commit a crime they enter um a dwelling or or business um through whatever you know a
door window but that's the majority of the time their point of exit as well because they're familiar with that route
you know that that's how they entered and so most burglaries and I can't I don't remember the statistic it's 80 87%
of burglaries that that enter a home exit through that same uh point of entry so I think Lou was aware of that but I
think because the crime the murder happened in the basement that would have been the closest exit that the suspect
was familiar with and then that suitcase being positioned upright L said you know
and he crawled in out of that window several times said it it's kind of hard to get up in the window unless you have
something to stand on and that's that's what he believes that was positioned like it was and when John Ramsey walked
down there one of the first things he said was that suitcase wasn't there you know we didn't keep the suitcases
upright you know underneath that window some someone's positioned that there yeah and that's another um I think point
of argument when when I've talked to this uh about this case with other individuals is to go well how would John
know that because the house was so large and like you pointed out yeah the house
was large but the basement was not a full basement it was a partial basement right right yeah um if I can leave with
with this request it if it doesn't sound too self-serving but people o often ask
when I do a talk or or book signing they say well how can we help the two two things that that really do help with the
book as you guys know the more Amazon reviews the book gets the the higher the ratings are and the whole intent is to
get the story out there so if someone takes the time to read the book would they please you know consider doing a um
a review on Amazon because that'll help get that much more exposure to the book and then the second thing if someone's
that's reads the book or or listens to the this program if you have the financial ability to make a donation to
the uh GoFundMe account we really would appreciate any it was just $10 or $50 whatever um it it's a way of U us
continuing our work again we're not um uh in uh in dire streets financially but the more people that contribute the more
we can do so if someone is in a position to make a a donation or GoFundMe account
none of us get paid uh the money only goes to reimburse us if we um have to travel or or go in a hotel and it's
mostly used for to pay for the DNA testing so we're not we're not making any money off of this but it does help
us with the expenses to continue our work yes of course thank you so much Mr Anderson for joining us today and
telling us about the great L SMI and his involvement in the ramsy case and your continued involvement and your team's
involvement in seeing this thing through well thank you and the captain for your
time today and sharing this story [Music] [Music] want to thank everybody for joining us
here in the garage if you have thoughts and opinions on this interview share them with us at our blog
at truecrime garage.com while you're there check out our recommended reading page Colonel do we have any recommended
reading for the beautiful listeners today yes we do Captain and of course this week we are going to be
recommending Lou and John Benet a legendary Lawman's quest to solve a child beauty queens Murder by John
Wesley Anderson Our Guest that you heard here today and yesterday in the garage make sure you pick up his book it's it's
a great way to review L career Mr Anderson's career and then Lou SMI working and his findings on the John
Benet case that's Lou and John Benet you can find that title and many other wonderful titles on our recommended Page
by going to our website True Crime garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't
live [Music]

JonBenet: The Master Detective /// Part 2 /// 719

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

This week as we enter the Christmas season we find ourselves once again intrigued by the still unsolved homicide case of JonBenet Ramsey. Legendary homicide investigator Lou Smit was hired by the Boulder County, Colorado District Attorney’s office three months after the murder of six year old JonBenet. However, Smit resigned from the position less than two years later. This week we are joined in the Garage by one of the people who knew Lou best, John Wesley Anderson. Mr. Anderson worked with Lou and he himself had a legendary law enforcement career. Mr. Anderson is a former homicide detective and El Paso County Sheriff. This week we feature John Wesley Anderson’s book - LOU AND JONBENET: A Legendary Lawman’s Quest to Solve a Child Beauty Queen’s Murder. We are going to take a few weeks to examine the JonBenet Ramsey case from a few different and very interesting perspectives. This will be the first of several episodes, each with a different focus and perspective on the case that continues to fascinate True Crime buffs all around the world.

Follow True Crime Garage on X (twitter) and on Instagram @TrueCrimeGarage / Follow Nic on X @TCGNIC / Follow The Captain on X @TCGCaptain

Listen to True Crime Garage "Off The Record” where TCG breaks all of the rules and sometimes gets down right NASTY!!! Available on Apple Podcast Subscriptions and Patreon.

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Brief Summary

John Wesley Anderson discusses the John Benet Ramsey case, focusing on evidence supporting the intruder theory and ongoing investigative efforts.

Key points

NCIS Sydney Launch. The NCIS franchise expands with NCIS Sydney, now streaming on Paramount Plus.
Lou's Dedication. Lou Smith's commitment to solving the Ramsey case remained unwavering until his last days.
Patsy's Charge. Patsy Ramsey urged Lou to continue pursuing the truth about her daughter's murder.
Continuing Lou's Work. After Lou's passing, his family decided to continue his investigative work on the case.
Generous Donations. A woman impressed by John's book made a significant donation to support the investigation.
The Top 20 List. The team maintains a top 20 list of persons of interest, shared with Boulder PD.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I don't think so, more mystery.

A moment of defiance in the investigation.

0:08WatchNov 29, 2023

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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