Jack the Ripper | Part 2 | Episode 344 | Morbid: A True Crime Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is morbid [Music] part two of Jack the Ripper yeah part
two of uh a few parts I'm I'm gonna say yeah we did say that I think we told you
it was gonna be four maybe we said that like yeah I think I said it was probably
gonna be four probably gonna be five might be five but here's my thoughts okay uh we gave Albert Fish four parts
and this is Jack the Ripper I feel like it deserves a little more yeah well there's more victims involved and
there's like you had to set up London as the team you had some really like cool asides yeah cool they were actually like
horrifying but but interesting to hear about you know it's this case the K it's one of those cases where the character
no not the character where the setting is also like almost like a character in this in the story exactly like that's
this has a lot to it a lot of like the police force at the time a lot of like inner workings and what was going on
with all that and like there's just so much going on and there was so much you know there was so many news reports
about this the media plays a big role in it it was the letters that we haven't even gotten to yet because they haven't
even been sent yet the Ripper letters right he hasn't even named Jack the Ripper yet like this is there's so much
that it's a saga and it was when it was on when it was ongoing you know yeah it truly is
so we'll see if I can wrap it up in four I will try to do so but not at the expense of giving all the information
that's how I feel okay um so here we are so when we last left you a part one uh Marianne Nichols or Paulie as she was
known to those who loved her was found brutally mutilated and killed yeah uh at this point too the new head of the
investigation of the criminal investigation department of the Metropolitan Police Robert Anderson has
been told by a doctor that he needs to take I said two weeks off I actually double checked I was wrong it was two
months he was told to take off oh wow yeah he was told to take off two full months and go on holiday do not do work
because you might die you know it's funny I was thinking when you originally said it I was like wow two weeks I was
just gonna like bring him his life back okay just here it is I was like where do
they think he's going yeah no he's going for two months he told him you were and
I guess I did read in a couple of sources that the doctor actually said after those two months I will happily
write you another month on top of that like another note saying you need another month damn but it was not at a
great time because this happened as soon as the murder started yeah and he had just got the job he had just taken the
job oh that that doesn't look so good no I mean he was definitely doing a ton of
other he was like doing spy work and [ __ ] before this so he was like that's why he came into it so over exhausted
but he gives you yeah he gives Capricorn energy he does a little bit so you're like shut the [ __ ] up I figured we would
start part two by going into a another thing just so you can have background on what we're talking about a lot of these
places in fact almost all of these places that we are going to be talking about where victims were found or seen
last um You're Gonna Hear spittle Fields a lot um spittle was actually a name for a
type of Hospital spittle oh uh it was actually I think it was like a charitable hospital where like they did
this for free they would take care of people who couldn't pay for medical care um so the fields east of the Saint Mary
spittle it's called was which was founded in 1197 by the way my goodness yes uh we're where the spittle fields
got their name okay and so there's apparently this beautiful and like very imposing and just like Gothic looking
church called Christ Church that still stands there today and was here in that spot during the Ripper crimes like you
could go to this spot and be like this was here during all of that love it um and it's or it's basically around
that is spitalfield markets and other businesses and a lot of Ripper locations are in spitalfields so Dorset Street
where where we've already mentioned that street it's where a lot of the lodging homes were and where a lot of the women
were killed that were killed by fact the Ripper were on it or out and about on Dorset Street it was considered one of
the worst streets at the time and very dangerous but like what street wasn't in London he considered one of the worst
and very dangerous it's true well London itself had a whole other end that wasn't
as dangerous yeah like the White Chapel area was definitely like just seedy gnarly uh but door there were certain
streets that were like you turned down that's those were the streets that the police wouldn't go down by themselves
right right so that Dorset Street was one of those um Annie Chapman who we're going to talk
about um is found murdered on Hanbury Street which is also part of spitalfields uh
fashion street is where Catherine eddos we will talk about her in part three where she was staying and also where we
see Elizabeth's stride staying with a man for some time we'll talk about her too
um there there was just everywhere the spittle field is Fields is a huge part of this story The Ten Bells Pub still
stands today and was possibly the last place Annie Chapman was seen it's just crazy like you can literally
go there and be like whoa like this is where to sit there it would be so heavy it would just to think like this is the
last place she was seen right like alive with somebody that's a lot um so I was excited when I was You Know You See
spittle Fields over and over again I was excited to be able to bring Ghost into this so I was waiting for you to and I
wasn't gonna steal your thunder and make a comment because that's your band baby
but I was like she's not saying anything about spitalfields yeah no of course I am uh it happened to fit perfectly that
there is a song on their latest album one of which I love this is one of my favorite songs on the album can confirm
called respite on the spittle fields and I had to look into this because of course what could that mean and when you
listen to the lyrics you're like all right what's this about um apparently Tobias has said it's about
the aftermath of Jack the Ripper and it's very obvious when you know that um he said it's all based on the fear
that prevailed because of the fact that he was not identified uh he said in an interview you know the fact that he was
never identified it says which meant that even though he had technically stopped killing at some point they were
never sure that he was not going to do it again so for a long time after there must have been fear especially among
women that it could happen again because you don't know where he is you don't know where he's hiding you don't know
what happened right so we'll get into the aftermath of the Ripper murders and probably part four five four five
whichever one we end on uh when we talk about theories and suspects we're going to talk about how the aftermath was but
the song has lyrics like you know he sliced and diced our dreams to peace to pieces and the moon and the gutter has a
story to tell one day he will come back from the bowels of hell so creepy so heavy when you actually
dive into this case and when you realize what it's about because I we listen it goes to like all the time in the car
like when we take our little morning drives for coffee and I've heard this song a million times but then you were
saying the other day you're like this is about Jack the Ripper and I listened closer and I was like holy [ __ ] yeah
it's just it's the even the music yeah kind of brings you there it's like a really well done like homage to that
time I think and then they say like they're leaving London yeah we're leaving the city like goodbye Seven
Sisters which is like a road in London like there's there's a lot of it I'd suggest you go listen to it especially
since you're listening to this series right now it'll get you in the mood it definitely got me in the mood yeah it's
a good song um I may come back to this song later in part three-ish maybe when we talk more about police and the
shenanigans that arose around this case we're gonna we're gonna touch upon that in this one too
um but there's a lyric that I also so wondered maybe referring to Sir Charles Warren who led the Metro metropolitan
police force during these crimes but that was just kind of an interesting look into spittle fields and a good song
related to it basically and I'll tell you the lyric that I think might be referencing him but it was like when I
want to wait a little bit until we get there will we get there today um I don't know if we'll get there today I should
you know what I'll give you the lyrics because why should I make you wait so there's a lyric that says you know uh
the king that we hailed was The Wizard of Oz like we found out that the king we healed the thing about Sir Charles
Warren and I'm going to go into him right now actually so that it works kind of work out is that he everyone had such
high hopes for him and I think he probably could have done a little better but I think he had a lot of bad uh hand
stealth tomb for sure but he didn't handle some big events very well okay and so I think people were so ready for
this guy to come in and organize this police force and get whip him into shape and then it just fell apart and to me
it's like the king we held was The Wizard of Oz like he kind of was The Wizard of Oz where it was all smoke and
mirrors and it behind the scenes it was a mess that makes sense but I don't know
I don't know can can we ask Tobias at some point maybe that'd be so cool can I just ask him like what did that mean did
that means Sir Charles Warren that's on manifesting that is on manifesting I want to be able to talk to him about
this case so badly maybe you'll get the opportunity someday I hope so man uh Tobias you hear that uh so you're
listening right below so so quick little side track about Sir Charles Warren while we are on that uh just so you know
because he's going to come up a lot in this and I don't want you to be like who's that guy like I said he was
appointed Chief Commissioner of police for the metropolitan police force in March 1886. he was a major general in
the Royal engineers and his militaristic ways were definitely something that made
him a prime candidate for the job he was given he was actually the third choice for this job right you know details
third time is the charm they got him so he was there to put them all in their place essentially because the
metropolitan police force was a [ __ ] wreck like there was just Noah there was a lot of disrespect there was a lot of
distrust low morale amongst the ranks I mean a woman had walked past them like bleeding out with her intestines on the
side and they didn't notice her yeah they just didn't know that about wraps that up so I guess Sir Charles Warren
came in he commanded respect he gave it back sometimes and he he ran a tight ship and he wanted to wear and he wanted
to keep exactly so I had to you had to so he kind of got the ranks in order he people knew what they were expected to
do when he came in at least that was something that happened but unfortunately he also had a really Rocky
start and really finished to the role there um Bloody Sunday November 13 1887 was
one thing that really just popped a jagged hole in his tenure as commissioner I would say if something's
gonna do it it is Bloody Sunday something called bloody anything is really gonna do it I'm not gonna get
into like the minute details here because we would be here for another episode on just Bloody Sunday if I did
that maybe another time maybe another time uh I'm just gonna give you a quick overview so you know why people had a
lot of distrust after this uh Trafalgar Square where uh Marion Nichols was arrested sleeping in oh okay um was
actually a place where a lot of protests and Gatherings happened often and Warren
was worried that you know the Gathering of minds and ideas was going to threaten
good Society he was worried that they were going to come together and they were going to just like Riot and
something bad was gonna happen so he was like I gotta stop this so he asked the Home Secretary Henry uh Henry
Matthews to ban all gatherings in the Square so Henry Matthews took a while to actually like respond to this because
again there's a lot of weird [ __ ] happening in this police force there's a lot of like egos there's a lot of like I
like this guy and now you're in his spot oh we're not gonna listen to you always
so he took a while to answer that but after a couple of months he agreed and he was like sure let's ban gatherings in
the square and when he did commissioner Warren announced this ban was going into
effect several groups found this to be unfair and planned a large Gathering to protest
it in the Square on November 13th in preparation for this Warren stationed 4 000 constables 300 Mountain mounted
policemen 300 mounted lifeguards armed foot guards and more in the Square that's a lot I'm sure it probably comes
to zero surprise to anybody listening right now that [ __ ] got violent and bloody very quickly of course so
needless to say he was not beloved after this no then with the Ripper murders things were just getting worse
foreign [Music] so if you know me you know that I really do I do love a good compliment it feels
good to get a compliment when you're just walking down the street singing looking at my rothies look at my rothies
these are cute have you ever seen somebody wearing a colorful pair of flats and you thought oh my God those
are so cute well those were definitely rothies in my opinion rothies are the perfect shoes for commuting and
traveling because everyone notices them they're known for their Chic pointed toe
flats but honey that is just the beginning they have tons of iconic head turning designs there's bright but like
still at the same time sophisticated colors and rothy's works with every single outfit wear them with yoga pants
or dress them up for a night out they are completely comfortable like insanely comfortable I feel like I'm wearing
slippers half the time as soon as you take your first step you think ah that really is more like it and
rothies takes sustainability to the next level all of their products are knit with thread that's made from plastic
water bottles they've actually repurposed about 125 million water bottles so far and it's just crazy to
think that like these shoes are so cute and they're also kind of saving the planet at the same time I also am just
like amazed at how comfortable these are if you wear flats you know that like nine out of 10 times you're gonna be
blister City I never got a single blister when I had my raffies on the first time I wore them nope never never
not once they're so comfortable they're super cute I seriously get complimented all the time and one of the things I
love most about them is that they're super durable because you can toss them in the washer so if you step in a mud
puddle or you spill something on your shoes have no fear your new favorite shoes are waiting discover the versatile
Styles you can wear absolutely anywhere and get 20 off your first purchase at office.com morbid that's
r-o-t-h-y-s.com slash morbid for twenty dollars off your first order and I'll say at some point I'm gonna
read you like an internal memo that he wrote about them that like oh I was like Charles he's you're not
you're not killing it bro yeah so after the murder of Paulie Nichols it was inspector Frederick George aberleen an
inspector Edmund Reed who really on the ground investigating this case to just the nth degree those names do sound
familiar I was gonna say probably more than Edmund Reed I would say inspector aberleen is some someone that
everybody's yup that's the one that I read yeah I was gonna say that's somebody that a lot of people like
connect with this case with for good reason now when Marianne monk who was nichols's
friend and the one who helped identify her said to aberleen you know she has a husband
estranged but she has a husband yeah he might know something aberleen immediately located him to bring him to
the uh the inquest yeah it was in front of the inquest that they were like hey you need to bring this guy in and
Abilene was like can have him by Monday and he had him by Monday so he's on it yeah so we're going to talk more about
aberleene later for sure so this brings us to September 8th 1888. the day after Robert Anderson the new
assistant commissioner of the CID has taken a doctor ordered holiday to Switzerland oh man yeah on this morning
you are now going to meet John Davis hello John John Davis is a 56 year old Carmen who worked for leadon Hall Ledon
Hall Market I hope that's how you say it or lead in Hall I'll say leaden Hall it
sounds better let it hold does sound better yeah he worked for leadon Hall Market living in a lodging home at 29
Hanbury Street in spitalfields he was living in the third floor attic with his wife and three sons they had moved into
this lodging home three weeks prior and since living there they had learned that
often sex workers would haggle with and bring their clientele into the yard outside of the building and he would
often have to kind of like shoo them away that was just like part of his daily routine
interesting time very interesting time the yard in the back of the home had a gate that was never locked it was just a
gate and actually most sources I saw were like we don't even know if it did lock yikes so it was an easy area for
people to just trample through or to bring clients to or to what was called Sleep rough which was sleeping outside
okay and it was kind of like a through way that people would just use so they roughen it stomp through this yard do
people say rough in it no roughing it yeah yeah like if you're going camping you're like roughing it yeah okay it
used to be called Sleep rough when you were sleeping outside yeah uh this lodging home was one that you would
typically find in this area in the East End it had eight rooms and there were 17
people living in them so very cramped quarters you would say so the previous evening September 7th he said he went to
sleep around 8pm and he woke up quote from 3 A.M to 5 a.m on Saturday and then fell asleep until a quarter to six when
the clock at spittle Fields Church struck I had a cup of tea and went downstairs to the backyard end quote in
a Coroner's inquest later Davis said this he said quote the house faces Hanbury street with one window on the
ground floor and a door at the side leading into a passage which runs through into the yard there is a back
door at the end of this passage opening into the yard neither of the doors was able to be locked and I have never seen
them locked anyone who knows where the latch of the front door is could open it and go along the passage into the
backyard there was a little recess on the left from the steps to the fence is about
three feet there are three stone steps unprotected leading from the door to the yard which is at a lower level than that
of the passage directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the left-hand recess between the stone steps
and the fence she was on her back with her head with her head towards the house and her legs
towards the Woodshed the clothes were much much disarranged I did not go into the yard but left the house by the front
door and called the attention of two men to the circumstances they work at Mr Bailey's a pack case maker of Hanbury
Street I do not know their names but I know them by sight so he told the coroner that those men
had got a police constable and that they had not entered the yard at all nor had
he again they were like we're not going in there yeah the coroner was pissed at one point Davis was like uh I don't know
what their names were in the corner was like you don't know what their name like
no one talked to these men right who came over there and so then Davis was like yeah I don't know I have to get to
work so I don't have which is like just he didn't know I would ever say but the coroner said quote your work is of no
consequence compared with this inquiry so he was literally like I I don't have time for this and honestly the coroners
I don't blame them they're probably getting so frustrated with these cases because they're like no one's telling us
anything well nobody seems to be paying attention to anything no and as we'll see later they're not giving them maps
of the area they're not giving where the body was found sometimes when they're getting the body afterwards they were
really given [ __ ] all to work with and then they're like how do you expect us to do our job properly and they're like
well we need to speak to these men and he's like yeah I don't know who those men are yeah and it's like dude I know
like that you don't know but like what the [ __ ] so these men ended up finding inspector Joseph Chandler and they
summoned him to the scene mean now by this time I should say anti-Semitism had made its way into this case already and
newspapers and [ __ ] on the street were saying it had to be a Jewish person who committed these crimes why is the
world so [ __ ] up yeah it was basically an excuse to attack Jewish people exactly this was a purveying theme here
it goes through when tragedy strikes there's always people who use it as an excuse to execute their Wills of you
know racism onto the masses but it does become a thing where they're like well I saw her with a Jewish man
and it's like okay can you just like shut the [ __ ] up yeah it does become a thing so it's important to note but what
inspector Chandler found was the savagely murdered body of a woman lying on her back her hands were raised and
her face was so covered in blood as well as her hands that Davis said when he first saw her he couldn't even tell
where the injury was because it was just blood oh whenever you hear that too yeah
you just it's so just to think about finding somebody in that State oh I can't imagine
her legs bent with her knees facing out and her feet on the ground her coat and her skirt both black had been pulled up
to expose her body and they were soaked in blood she was wearing striped sock stockings which were obvious from her
positioning and she had been completely and brutally disemboweled there was some
kind of fabric or scarf or handkerchief most likely wrapped around her neck as well but they said they believed that
was done by her like like as like a fashion thing the police report said quote small intestines and flap of the
abdomen lying on right side above Wright's shoulder attached by a cord with the rest of the intestines inside
the body two flaps of skin from the lower part of the abdomen lying in a large quantity of blood above the left
shoulder throat cut deeply from left and back in Jagged manner right around the throat her throat was cut so deeply and
so brutally that the killer had almost removed her head from her body wow and they said he likely meant to he just
didn't get to he didn't have time because they said he literally grinded into that vertebrae in your neck so he
was trying to separate those bones for sure at one point someone in the crowd had
gathered or someone In This Crowd that had already gathered to gawk um they grabbed a tarpaulin and they did
put it on her which is nice but like don't do that oh yeah I'm like that's really that's nice
and you're like that's sweeping evidence that's not great I understand the intention I love it I feel it I'm there
for it but like logic like don't do that right right so Chandler sent for a doctor to examine the body before moving
it to the mortuary and began a search of the crime scene he ended up finding blood stains on the fence about and it
was right above her about 14 inches up down and some more on the wall behind her now her wedding ring and what they
think was two more brass Rings were forcibly removed from her fingers and not found huh yeah and they looked they
were like bruised like he had like ripped them off her face her pocket and her skirt was cut open with a blade and
the contents were not stolen they were just placed around her there was a comb some muslin fabric and
a paper case that was just like open and empty we're next to her on the ground next to her head was a piece of paper
and a ripped up piece of envelope with the letter M on it and postage from August 28 1888 with a couple of pills
inside of it okay in in the envelope now most intriguing but something that really doesn't it like plays into some
suspects but they kind of just let this go after a while most intriguing was a leather apron that was found nearby
soaked in water huh almost like it had been like rinsed off yeah because it was a little water spout nearby like I said
it looked like it had been washed off which is weird because you leave her in the state that she's in and like there's
blood and skin and horrible but it's like why would you wash off the apron yeah and you could have like cleaned up
the little contents that was in her bag like you would think you maybe would do that but then you when you look at how
quickly these are done and what they are finding out that these are done so quickly he didn't have time for anything
he had time to do his what he was there to do he didn't have time for anything extra then why would he wash the apron
that's why I don't think it belonged to him wasn't related yeah I don't think I'm gonna be there it's intriguing I
don't think it belonged to him yeah other aprons were everywhere people were wearing them for a lot of different jobs
it it doesn't surprise me that one was in the yard yeah just discarded okay um but and that's why I just don't think
he wasn't taking time to clean anything no because that never happened at any other crime scene to my knowledge right
yeah no it just doesn't it doesn't really ring true to what he's doing here to me it seems like
he's doing these things very quickly very efficiently at most of them and he's getting the hell out of there fast
and he must have somewhere he can go that he can clean up yeah quite his leisure even and then the other thing
that's weird to me is that he stole her rings because previously like nothing had been stolen off of um
Paulie well no that's the thing it doesn't feel like the motive here like they're brass Rings like it doesn't yeah
it doesn't feel like the motive here is robbery or like for profit do you think that was a trophy I don't know if that
was a trophy or if it was to confuse police or what huh but I don't know but this is Jack that everything else has
the jacket oh yeah this all has the Jack emblem all over it so when Dr George Bagster Phillips showed up he stated she
was indeed deceased and she was taken immediately away to avoid any further Gathering of the people around her
um in the afternoon a woman named Amelia farmer came in and identified the victim
as Annie Chapman who also was called by some dark Annie she had been her friend later her brother and I I've seen it
spelled Fountain and also fountaine so I'm not exactly sure which one it is I mostly saw it as Fountain so I'm gonna
go with that um was brought into he was brought in to identify her as well later and it was
something that destroyed him emotionally of course um a family member should have never
been brought in in the state that she was in but they have to no I totally no I know but I'm just like oh my God yeah
it's like it's an unfortunate never have to go through that no you never should have to and he started drinking as a
result of seeing his sister that way and he actually suffered a breakdown I'm not
surprised I mean how do you ever get that image out of your head of your sister yeah and apparently it got so bad
and this is um from the five the book that I'm going to um I I think I linked it in the first part but I'm gonna link
it again um it got so bad that he ended up stealing from his employer at one point
to buy alcohol and he got fired from his job he had a wife and two children he eventually ran like a band in his family
the next week he surrendered himself to the police station and wrote a letter to
his wife saying quote Oh My Darling wife it is the cursed drink for God's sake don't let the children touch it
he felt supremely guilty that he didn't know Annie's troubles in their last they
had a drink together the last time he saw her and I'm sure that was weighing on him as well he eventually did regain
himself he got his family back and they all moved to America that's great so there was happiness there was at least
some kind of like he escaped with his family yeah now let's talk about Annie Chapman
she was actually born Eliza and Smith and she was raised in Paddington West London and born on September September
2nd 1841. so another woman that died very close to her birthday yeah it's it I know it's a strange little coincidence
yeah um her mother was Ruth Chapman and her father was George Smith and he was a
military man he served in the second lifeguards this meant that he was not deployed like overseas or anything but
instead worked as part of the Queen's household Calvary he basically was in charge of keeping the queen and the
royal family safe at their home wow which is a pretty important job the man the family moved around a lot because of
this military service um and the the queen and the royal family would live in different places
like Windsor and stuff and he would have to go live there that's so cool well unfortunately both the parents drank
excessively and were known for this they were actually not married when Annie was
born and didn't get married until after she was born and this was a taboo So Scandalous at the time they were seen as
very taboo very scandalous and Annie soon was joined by a younger sister Emily and another younger sister
Georgina I love that name it's really cute but this was much later when Annie was like 15 years old wow and then they
had Miriam and a brother Fountain okay now the family was doing well they lived in a lot of you know very nice homes and
were not struggling with George's job being pretty upstanding and financially rewarding during this time when they
were living in Windsor one of the many times they moved there Annie got to know a man named John Chapman
oh now you're probably like hmm her mom's last name is Chapman oh that actually went completely over my head so
that's good her mom's last name is Ruth Chapman um they were related on their mother's
side on her mother's side distantly cousins of some sort okay he was working in Windsor as a valet and
making decent wages um he would sneak Annie and himself into his employer's home uh you know using
the keys that he was trusted with and like not great and they would drink his liquor together that was like their
thing okay Annie got hooked on rum at this point she really enjoyed rum they liked each other they you know keeping
the Bloodlines pure and all that well the thing is you have your cousins and then your first steps there it is you
got to bring it to a place of Mean Girls I was waiting to um and you know back then it just wasn't as uncommon as it is
now it was like way more cool so Annie did not get along with her sisters uh she was independent she was rebellious
she didn't like the idea of being a proper lady she didn't want to like conform to society huh Her Sisters in
contrast were shy what she considered prudish and liked to stay within the bounds of what Society had laid out for
them because that's what they were being raised to do they were just kind of going along with the family thing yeah
she was like I'm not into it she's also a Virgo and I feel like I'm learning more lately that Virgos kind of like to
push boundaries like a little bit not in a bad way but like test limit yes I see
that my youngest is a Virgo so yes I agree with that and then think of we have some other family members and
Friends whatever it goes and it's actually applicable to almost all of them it really is it makes a lot of
sense now after a ton of moves in 1862 the family was sent to live back in Windsor where the queen was spending a
lot of time at this time at the time of the move they had been living in London and Annie being about 21 at the time
stayed behind to take on work as a domestic servant this was very common she was honestly she was like striking
with brown wavy hair like very piercing blue eyes she had this like independent personality she was feisty she was
unique she just like wasn't going along with [ __ ] Virgos are cool man you like
get it Annie Annie was cool not two years later this is really sad her father ended up killing himself by
slashing his own throat oh my apparently he had retired from his job early and was working as what was referred to as a
manservant depression took over he was not used to that kind of work he was used to a different kind of work he was
predisposed to depression he was drinking a lot that mixed with you know the heavy drinking unfortunately he just
couldn't get out of it okay um and if unfortunately too this month of the family was not just losing him
they were losing everything yeah they were financially ruined that's awful so Ruth had to move all the kids back to
London to stay with a friend in Knightsbridge by this time John Chapman and Annie were
becoming very infatuated with each other and he asked her to marry him so they married May 1st 1869.
by 1870 they had their first child together a daughter named Emily Ruth Jane which is really cute that it's like Ruth
after the month it is unfortunately Annie liked to drink and she developed a taste for rum and she had come from two
parents who were very heavy drinkers that's what she was shown she spent a lot of their money on this causing them
to have to move from their first home together back to a lodging to lodging with her mother Ruth and the other
siblings which is definitely going to be stressful a lot of siblings and she had
a series of stillbirths before having another daughter which is like devastating another daughter named Annie
Georgina Chapman so George after her dad yeah and she had a sister Georgina yeah
and Georgina she had a sister Emily so yeah interesting so it's cute John got work on Bond Street and Mayfair and they
got a place in a pretty exclusive area so things started going much more smoothly once he got this job are things
just like ebbing and flowing yeah instantly because then Annie got him fired oh no how she stole something from
his boss oh either stole clothes thing or something to pawn for rum or she stole the liquor itself who can't tell
this made her brother and sisters Furious they were all religious they all had upstanding jobs at the time they
were starting families of their own they had grown up with parents who severely abused alcohol and now they saw their
older sister falling into it they convinced her at the time because they were like we're gonna save you and I
think they had like good intentions at the time they had taken a pledge they wanted her
to join the temperance movement with them okay it persuaded alcoholics to take a pledge of abstinence from the
drink and they had all done so so it's kind of like an AAA Temperance was pretty intense it was a pretty intense
movement that's the sad thing because these like anybody struggling with alcoholism at this time didn't have a
program that wasn't super that wasn't intense over the top and making them feel like they were committing like the
worst thing they could ever do by even having a sip but they had I believe they had good intentions here they just
wanted to save their sister from what they felt like their parents had fallen into they were seeing her go down a bad
path and this is the resource that was available to and they were raised at different you
know yeah that's just the way it is now they wanted Annie to do the same they wanted her to take this pledge they
wanted her to like get away from it and she said [ __ ] off she did it okay no she
did it great and she but she did it to please them and not for herself and that's not gonna work this is evidenced
by the evident by the fact that she didn't stop and actually ramped up her rum drinking up to the point that in
1877 John her husband requested that she enter a program to get sober okay so she
did agree and she and entered a voluntary program I didn't even realize okay so they do kind of have programs
but not great programs not great these are not programs where you're going and you're having you're like actually
talking about things and working through why you're drinking and getting to the bottom of it and like actually having
like support written through it was like a lot of just like forced religion and forced like it was a
lot of stuff that wasn't going to help you get to the bottom of why you were drinking in the first place and maybe
get you to want to stop yeah forcing anybody to do anything is never gonna have great results yeah now she spent up
to a year in that program so she was really trying and while she was in there her sisters actually paid to have her
daughter sent to school so that's nice so her siblings did rally around her and we're like let's we want to make sure
our nieces are getting what they need and the sisters also helped the two the two children get like take the important
societal steps that they felt were necessary like taking music lessons and like learning this and that like
learning how to be proper ladies they were nurturing the kids because that's what they thought was supposed to be
happening very Bridgerton now John got another job in Windsor with another wealthy family after he was fired from
the last one and it was very rewarding this one he moved to their daughters to live over the stables at St Leonard's
Hill Mansion where he were worked it was very nice there the people were nice there while Annie's sisters helped out
with making sure her daughters received the schooling and training they would need John's boss provided the family
with a Nanny named Carolyn great unfortunately Emily Ruth Jane was died she was suffering from epilepsy oh no
which meant she would be treated by Society like she was a demon spawn because at the time epileptics were not
treated as like oh you have a disorder and we need to help you even touched by the hand of the devil you something
terrible was done for this to happen to you and you're possessed by a demon what
the [ __ ] yeah it was really bad um and they even at times like people thought epilepsy was brought on by like
too much masturbation or like that was a thing Jesus Christ or just being possessed by a demon but I cannot so
things they were able to a lot of the nanny I guess was really taking care of Emily Ruth Jane like she was there to
make sure that she was she knew that she was not possessed by that exactly thing
things seem to be going well and then Annie came home from treatment she had completed that almost year of treatment
she was ready to live with her family again so she moved in they were all excited to have her back but everyone
else who was working and living on this estate was a little suspicious of her coming back like the people they were
working for were like I don't know about this because they're like you know they're Elite and they're they're
looking at this says she's made this mistake and she can't possibly come back but look she's trying to rectify it like
exactly that sucks and they thought she was faking her sobriety all that stuff like give her a chance yeah now around
this time she became pregnant uh with a son who would later be named John Alfred
unfortunately she was not able to stick to sobriety and things got pretty messy and pretty bad really quickly she began
drinking heavily again um while pregnant I'm not sure if it was while pregnant I can't say for sure but
she was definitely drinking at this time and some people say there is a story that I've read in a lot of different
sources that say she was really going along with the sobriety thing but then one day I think John had like a cold and
back then you would have like a hot cup of whiskey and loosen it up and he did that and then he gave her a kiss goodbye
to go to work and she tasted the whiskey and that's what set her oh no into it that's a story I've heard it in many
different places but obviously we can't confirm that all we know is that it did get bad so John eventually had enough he
didn't want to lose another job that supported his family so he threw her out even though she was pregnant at the time
that he threw her out so I imagine she was drinking while pregnant woof now her son John was born with partial paralysis
and had to be placed into a hospital shortly after birth nothing worked for him there obviously
they weren't able to cure the paralysis and even though John and Annie had come together again while this was going on
because they wanted to support each other this was tragic she went right back into drinking heavily again got bad
again she was spending all the money on rum and neglecting to buy food and clothing and such he told her this is
the last straw I never want to see you again so she left and was homeless for a while
after weeks of struggling she knew it was White Chapel where she was going to be able to find cheap lodging and maybe
some kind of work yeah it was exactly how I have explained it to be with hard conditions a deep disdain for those
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so John of course I mentioned in the first part was required to pay her a week's a weekly allowance but I forgot
about that that's really all she had in the beginning but then she started to she was like you
know what I have some talents here like she possessed many talents um everyone who came forward to say they
were around her during this time in her life said she was sweet intelligent and well spoken they she was also they said
she was feisty but like in a fun way yeah they felt calm around her when she wasn't drinking okay when she drank it
was a whole other story it's so sad how that happens because dual personality like you it could be your best friend
and you're like I love you so much and then it's a whole entire yeah inside and like you know that person is such a good
person and what they're capable of yeah and what comes out when they drink is just not who this person is
um but while she had previously so while she was in in treatment for that year uh
she had spent a lot of her time sewing and crocheting and getting really good at it
um and so while in White Chapel she decided like many other women at the time that she could crochet sew and make
artificial flowers and sell it all people used to buy them I said before that they would put them on these like
fancy hats cool um and she dragged her Wares to what is now known as West Ham to sell them
unfortunately it wasn't a like booming business no she was getting really almost nothing for it all her hard work
and she was barely getting anything back and that sucks now her next move was to
take up with men she knew who could help her pay her way she was especially known
to be around a man nicknamed the pensioner who was actually named Ted Stanley he was older and had her wrapped
a bit with his charms and he had like you know Tales of his colorful life and he was currently working as a bricklayer
so he did have a constant source of income but he wasn't like rolling in it was he a good dude yeah so around this
time she got news not really so around this time you it's hard to find good dudes in the stories
there are some though there are some I felt like her previous husband was like John Chapman seemed to have he gave it
his all he really did he seemed to have given given it a good a good don't love that he threw her out while pregnant
just don't love that yeah I don't love that that's the thing you really gotta find the good here and it's real it's
real hard to find it's sparse it's like oh blinking you miss it oh that's yeah so around this time she got news and
this is sad this she got news that her estranged husband John Chapman was very ill oh no and that he was not expected
to live much longer oh Jesus she walked this just broke my heart she walked because it was her only option with no
money she tried to walk all the way to Windsor to be there for him and it's like crazy in his last days but she
wasn't fast enough because it took so long he died on Christmas Day 1886 and apparently and this is going to be
something that's going to make you go oh his cause of death was cirrhosis of the
liver from heavy and long-term drinking I just don't know if you've ever heard this phrase It's called um the pot
calling the kettle black John now I don't know what his drinking situation was I don't know if he was drinking in
the sense of like he must have been like consistently drinking yeah but I don't know what how that was affecting his
outside life at all it seems like he was a functioning you know what I mean like
yeah but it's like that's not fair that that's just kind of shitty but yeah it's
truly what you said pot calling me yeah black like you're both struggling from the same
thing like and you're [ __ ] on her because she's just not as good as get good at it as you are exactly it's it's
a tough situation because of course it's like back then people were doing things
when they were pregnant that they weren't supposed to be doing because not a lot was known about it and it's just
whatever but and obviously a lot of bad choices are made here no one's making correct choices here I said it in part
one We're not gonna find this thing where it's like well this person just has it all together like no one had it
together back then it really wasn't together anyway it just wasn't going well so it's like sure we can sit here
and look at it and say a lot the these women made a lot of bad choices yeah do any of them deserve the [ __ ] that they
went through absolutely not no one does like it's really shitty and I'd never want them to be portrayed as deserving
of being no of being put in the situations they were put in because once they made it to White Chapel there
wasn't a lot of choices they didn't really have a lot a lot of chance and it's like choices leading up to that
sure could have been different yeah in a lot of the situations but not all of them and just a side note question you
can die of cirrhosis of the liver and actually not drink right like cirrhosis of the liver can be caused by other
things yeah it definitely can't his was caused by a heavy drink but I was like did I hear that really like I know I
know I've heard that yeah so she was obviously devastated by his death because although they had a rocky
relationship I think that there was like love there and they just couldn't function together is really the problem
um she was devastated she never recovered from it and a lot of people said she lost a lot of her spark and her
hope after that there was a lot of guilt associated with his death I think yeah definitely so now she turned to sex work
to try to stay afloat because that's I mean I told you the numbers there was an unbelievable amount of sex workers like
actively working in the city of White Chapel and it was either a full-time gig because they had nothing else and that's
the only way they could afford lodging or it was a part-time thing where they would do the dressmaking laundrying
tailoring crocheting like anything like that and then on the side they would do it to supplement right it was very
common I mean what else was there to do and at this point you know even though this was an extremely dangerous and
violent line of work to go into she really had no choice yeah and well now again she doesn't have that money coming
in from John exactly so she and I think she felt really hopeless so I I think it
was like yeah she's sad she only wanted money to keep drinking and keep a roof over her head whenever she could right
really that was it and she was often seen entertaining clients in spittle fields in White Chapel now at this point
she started staying on Dorset Street it was in a Dos house which we've already mentioned as being the worst and most
violent Street of them all sure have it was dangerous horrific for her and the money she earned from sex work only
afforded her this and her constant flow of rum that's it she didn't she really didn't care about much else well I mean
she's lost her husband she's lost her children she's just like existing she's just floating through a lot of them
could probably felt a little bit like ghosts just floating through the motions this is when she began earning the
nickname dark Annie because as I said when she drank she got a little gnarly she was pretty violent and angry when
she drank and her circumstances met with the guilt she felt about her children and John was not helping her drunken
rages from occurring less and then I just thought of too her parents were alcoholics she had a rough childhood I'm
sure she has a lot of years of trauma there's a lot of trauma happen in here for sure and it's just it's just they're
all sad stories none of these stories are like wow this is a happy ending it's like
everything going for them and then yeah so the Dos how she was staying at was 35
Dorset Street at Crossing hims which was managed by a man named Timothy Donovan he was not a nice guy really chopping uh
it was a house license to shelter 144 people but he crammed over 300 in there okay now Ted Stanley the pensioner was
still kind of controlling Annie at this point but was not actually helping her at all that's the thing I'm like you
want to help her out no brother every now and then he would pay her for her bed at the Dos house but he actually
told the man running the Dos house that if Annie brought another man in there he
had to throw her out what the [ __ ] but he and at first you'd be like well what
no I know what his but he was seeing another woman named Eliza Cooper and paying for her bed too I had a feeling
couldn't bother to let them stay with him just let them stay in filth every once in a while on his time that's all
he would do what the [ __ ] dude now around this time towards the end of August she ran into her brother fountain
on Commercial Road she hadn't he did not know how bad things had gotten she was scared to tell
him what she was going through was embarrassed so she kind of made it seem not all that bad like I'm okay I'm just
like scrounging a little bit he was kind and he gave her some money that he had in his pocket the two of them sat down
for a drink and that was it that's like just knowing what happens and what he had to go through after that's
heartbreaking now Ted Stanley and Eliza Cooper became a witness became witnesses
to Annie's last days unfortunately Ted told investigators he had seen her at the Britannia Pub on Dorset Street
September 2nd 1888 with Eliza Cooper oh apparently they were not friends apparently a couple of days before this
Annie had borrowed a piece of soap from Ted Stanley and it was meant for Eliza and Eliza got pissed because Annie had
promised to give it back but didn't have it when Eliza confronted her and he threw a half penny at her and told her
here buy some more like just tossed it oh man so when they saw each other at the Britannia they were both drunk and
the familiar rage boiled up within them both they immediately went after each other screaming at each other they were
physically pushing each other getting into each other's faces and they're like girls the pensioner is not worth yes at
all it was getting ugly Witnesses said the fighting was continuous it went back all the way back
to the Dos house they were fighting oh man where Annie then slapped Eliza and Eliza lost it she beat Annie badly and
left her in bad condition oh no now Annie's friend Amelia farmer who would later identify her body saw her the next
day after this and she said she was horrified by her condition she had a black eye a horribly bruised chest and
she was feeling really ill likely my thoughts are from blows to the Head she was probably suffering something she
said she couldn't eat anything and had only had a cup of tea that day so Amelia gave her some money for more tea and
then said please take care of yourself and do not drink she was like do not spend this money on drinking she said
buy yourself some tea yeah so she told her Annie said sure I'm gonna go to White Chapel workhouse
tonight like I'll I'll try to rest and Amelia later said of Annie quote I'm afraid she used to earn her living
partly on the streets she was a straightforward woman when she was sober clever and industrious with the needle
but she could not take too much drink she had been living a very irregular life all the time I've known her
uh and he did return to White Chapel workhouse and in return for a cold bath and some shitty stew she was made to
pick okum which is a very common thing that the poor were for forced to do in these workhouses she had to meticulously
um untangle Old Ship ropes oh my God and then get them into like these strands that could be used and it was murder on
the hands in very intense work it would like destroy your hands just rip him apart by the end of it so she saw her
again that Friday September 6th around 5 PM after she had left the workhouse and
she said she was still feeling terrible she told Amelia she didn't even feel well enough to go to Stratford to try to
sell anything she said she was trying to push through and said she was going to pull herself together and earn some
money or she said I'm going to be sleeping outside tonight I wonder if she had like my first thought was um like I
wonder if she had a broken rib that caused internal bleeding or something yeah well we find out so by 7 PM she
went back to the Dos house and asked Timothy Donovan if she could just sit in the kitchen for a while and he wouldn't
let her out so she was like I don't have money I just need to sit he did say yes
okay he said yep you can sit in there she was seen in the kitchen by another lodger Frederick Stevens around 12 10
a.m he referred to her as being quote rather worse for drink so I think she was like kneading drink
at this time oh she's going through like withdrawal she might have been so a bit
after this another lodger named William said he saw her in the kitchen as well and chatted with her he too said she was
not doing well and that she had taken out a little uh paper box of pills from her pocket and it broke when she pulled
it out so the pills went everywhere and he helped her gather them she found a scrap of envelope in the kitchen and put
the pills in there and placed them back in her pocket this is the envelope with the pills they found next to her body
yeah mere hours after this so and she had gotten those pills apparently from the infirmary she had
gone to so they were I think there was only two in there okay um she left after this and William said
he thought she had gone to her bed he was she would normally sleep in but instead she had left and come back
around 1 35 A.M I think she had gotten a little bit to drink at that point she hung out in the
kitchen for a bit longer and then around 2 A.M Timothy Donovan the Dos managers who had known her for months by the way
he kicked her out because she hadn't paid for a bed at 2 am are you kidding me it's like just let her sleep in the
kitchen even that's the thing she took and she told him you know her yeah yeah she told them how sick she was but he
said he didn't give a [ __ ] and tossed her out I think number one he doesn't give a [ __ ] because he wants to make his
money but do you also think he maybe thought she was drunk and was just like you gotta get out of here I think yeah
he did well I think all it was I think it was black and white you didn't pay for a bed you don't get to stay here get
out that's so [ __ ] up and she told him when she left he said he said she told me keep my bed open because I'm gonna
make my money and I'm gonna sleep in it okay and he was like all right so that at that point the night guard whose name
was John Evans said he saw her leave he escorted her out of the Dos house around
1 45 AM so she must have wandered around for hours looking for clients to make her
money for lodging at 5 30 a.m there was a confirmed witness report from a park Keeper's wife Elizabeth Long who said
she was on her way to the market at that time and she spotted what she knew was Annie Chapman speaking to a man next to
a house on Hanbury street she said the man looked quote like a foreigner not sure what that means yeah I was wearing
a deer stalker hat and looked to be over 40 years old a deer stalker hat is that
classic plaid type happy hat you see on like the Sherlock holmese kind of guy um
flaps on the ear it's like a very like it's a very it's a very uh stereotypical of what you would think of when you see
the hat with like the Sherlock Holmes so he was wearing one of those that becomes
a recurring thing by the way and she said that he asked her will you and she said yes this was near the place
Annie was found at 29 hambury street so this could have been Jack could have been Jack so a few moments later a man
living next door to 29 hambury street at number 27 said he heard panic and Terror
his man his name was Albert kadosh and he reported later that he heard screaming oh jeez he said quote I live
at 27 hambury Street and I am a carpenter 27 is next door to 29 hambury Street on Saturday September 8th I got
up about a quarter past five in the morning and went into the yard it was then about 20 minutes past five I should
think as I returned towards the back door I Heard a Voice say no just as I was going through the door it was not in
our yard but I should think it came from the yard of number 29. I went indoors but returned to the yard about three or
four minutes afterwards while coming back I heard a sort of fall against the fence sense which divides my yard from
that of 29. it seemed as if as if something touched the fence hard and suddenly oddly he just ignored it and
went back to his shift for work it's like you took the time to go back there and check to listen yeah you heard
something weird and you said huh that was weird and he definitely heard her being murdered he heard that she was
right next to the fence that's where she was found and she's being brutally attacked clearly yeah but I wonder if
she couldn't make much noise because the way it cut her throat exactly so 6 AM rolls around and our friend John Davis
stumbles upon the horrifically brutalized dead body of Annie Chapman now when we began here she was found in
the yard of 29 hamberry Street by John the coroner had determined her throat had been so deeply cut it had clearly
been an attempt to remove her head completely from her body and she had been violently and pretty theatrically
disemboweled yeah so after searching the area and finding the blood stains on the
fence above her her wedding ring and a couple of other Rings had been forcibly removed from her finger uh the pocket
and her skirt cut open all those contents placed around her um uh then they found that leather apron
that was soaked in water so after all of this they finally took her body to White
Chapel workhouse infirmary Mortuary this was an old Montague Street this was a shed essentially Jesus [ __ ] was not
great no like how are you doing Dr Phillips not well [ __ ] is what he would say
that's what he would say he was not happy with his a lot of these Corners were like hey guys help we have a pretty
important job and you're not giving us like any [ __ ] to work with like can we have somebody help us but again not
shocking not at all Annie was described as being about 48 years old she was short at about five feet she was
described as Stout she had dark hair that waved a bit blue eyes like I said and two of her bottom teeth were missing
okay now when a proper examination was conducted of the body now that it was stripped and washed the condition was
even more horrific than they thought her face and tongue was swollen now this led him to believe there was
some kind of Suffocation before he attempted to move the head because your tongue will protrude and swell I didn't
realize that yeah so her eye especially had a massive bruise on it and so did her chest he was able to determine that
the bruises on her chin and the sides of her jaw were recent and likely from the
killer but the chest and eye and Temple bruising were from several days earlier we know who good old Eliza so now since
the head of the criminal investigations Department Robert Anderson was now informed of what was happening back home
oh man he was starting to get uh lightly trashed in the press for being away and
not returning to stop this I mean yeah after all now we had Marianne Nichols and Annie Chapman murdered in similar
and very brutal ways in his in his jurisdiction and there were arguments if there were two others exactly at this
point the CID which is tasked with investigating and stopping this spree is effectively leaderist leaderless at this
point yeah so when the inquest began two days later even more horrific details were released now they didn't release
any of these into the papers none of the papers had any kind of knowledge of these but initially Dr Phillips didn't
even want to release them to the anything he didn't want to talk about them he didn't want them on the record
he had a good reason for this and I understand what he was saying he said the injuries and mutilations were so
horrific that it would be quote too painful to the feelings of the jury in public he said I released to the cause
of death which was a severed carotid artery he said everything after that was gratuitous and does not have anything to
do with the cause of death all you need to know is the cause of death death you do not need to know what anything after
that oh he was saying like we can have it on record whatever but I don't want it released to the public okay I do
understand where he was coming from with that trying to save gratuitous details from being released
that didn't cause the car at her death yeah but like obviously you can't do that because a lot of this has to do
with the pathology of the killer so but at that time that was not well and they're probably worried about public
Terror at this point that's the thing so at first the inquest Bros agreed but then they said the in question yeah at
first they could not let that go they were gonna they were like okay yeah that we got that but then they were like nah
you need to come back and you need to tell us every single detail like I he's like I just need him I need them all
they were like we gotta release these so we got We're Not Gonna really summon the
Press but we need to at least have them so that we can investigate files from them uh but before he agreed to tell
them he said okay fine I will I guess I have to but he said I want every woman and any children that could be in the
area to leave I don't want them to be subject to any of this he said this is not fit for publication in any media
source and it's not fit for women it is not so as he explained the following and
well back then it wasn't even like it's not fit for women they were like that your Constitutions are too delicate to
hear such terrible things like that was their way of like I'm trying to save the
women and the children from hearing this horrific nightmare yeah yeah I get the chance as he explained the following
several men in the room actually fainted so there's that so Fufu so this is what it said it said her neck
was cut twice one after the other from left to right and they were so deep that they cut into the vertebrae with a clear
attempt to remove the head from the body this is where it gets even Wilder quote
the abdomen had been entirely laid open and the intestines severed from their mesenteric attachments which had been
lifted out and placed on the soldier shoulder of the corpse whilst from the pelvis the uterus and its appendages
with the upper portion of the vagina and the posterior two-thirds of the bladder
had been entirely removed obviously the work was that of an expert or on at least who had such knowledge of
anatomical or pathological examinations as to be enabled to secure the pelvis organs with One Sweep of the knife you
can like feel that so he said those organs were removed from her body in one Suite without Jagged Cuts without a
bunch of just tearing through [ __ ] and I can tell you you can I can speak from
some experience here that it is hard they would tell you okay start the start the cuts and you would have to take a
second to find that part of the colon that you want to start at it was hard and you would look in there with these
spotlights of of you know 2000s and whatever's lab lights on here all the technology that we have all the lighting
sources everything that we have that is hard yeah it all looks the same when you
open it up it's all beige it's all red it's all goop together it's everything you don't just look in there and be like
well that is the pelvis that is it's that is the bladder that's the uterus these are the Fallopian tubes so it's
just a whole bunch of stuff you find it but it takes some time and it takes some
skill and knowledge some observation and it takes a lot of digging around and really finding where you're gonna cut or
else you're going to be making a [ __ ] mess if someone's inside so no one wants
to do that and years of studying before you even get to the point where they hand you the knife to cut someone
exactly we still had books in the in the autopsy Suite anatomy and pathology books so that we could reference them if
we needed to it happens but we're talking about 1888 in White Chapel where like I said darkness is
something you have not experienced until you were in 1888 White Chapel and he's not like pulling out his iPhone for the
flash he's not pulling out any kind of light source if he does have a light source it's a lantern which I don't
think he had because no one said they saw anybody with a lantern he's doing this in the [ __ ] dark he's doing this
with no time at all to spare in haste waiting for people to show up I have all the time in the [ __ ] world in the
autopsy suite and it takes me a long [ __ ] time and to remove the pelvic block that's hard what is the pelvic
block that's the what they're talking about with like the bladder the pelvis like the whole block of organs that are
in you oh okay um like even like the you know the thoracic block like you're they're all blocks of organs that
usually you for an autopsy will take out all together you'll keep them all connected and you will lift them out of
the body together and he took them out separate but in order to do that you have to cut connections that you know
exist otherwise you're just going to be slicing through most of these organs and
[ __ ] up the whole abdomen how's that donut on your way to work though so this guy if he was able to take what they're
saying to me is what they do what holds me what Dr Phillips tells me here is that he took the uterus its appendages
and the upper portion of the vagina and posterior two-thirds of the bladder he took all of that to say that again he
took all of that that's hard work to do and that's somebody that in my opinion has at least a working knowledge of
anatomy I like have cramps all of a sudden but it's not even that yeah area it's just
it I don't understand and maybe I'm standing on an island alone here I know a lot of people will be like pish posh
with the anatomy knowledge thing no no because no you have to learn like very very very basic anatomy for in hair
school actually yeah it was even like basic basic basic anatomy I could not wrap my brain around like that's intense
and it's just I think unless you have taken part in a dissection and an evisceration and an autopsy it's hard to
understand the nuances and these small tiny things that are involved in that yeah that you
don't just rip organs out of somebody's body you don't just like go up I see a uterus rip like that's not how that
works no there are so many little connections that you have to make sure you cut before you take it out yeah I
can appreciate that I mean like I can't I'm not I can't imagine if I if you if that even if the body was opened up for
me and somebody told me like where's the uterus I'd be like I have no [ __ ] no it's hard like I can go into the general
area on me where it is yeah like in a body no [ __ ] way exactly and what's crazy is so the Dr Phillips believed
that this person like I do definitely had knowledge of the human body and Anatomy had to have it was one of those
things that he believed couldn't have just been like I said somebody ripping organs out willy-nilly no way I mean
they took the they took part of the vagina the upper portion of the vagina and part of the bladder right and they
took the appendages from the uterus they took the whole damn thing what does that
mean like the Fallopian tubes they took the you know they took all of the stuff that goes along with your uterus
basically the reproductive system yeah it was like a like a crude hysterectomy exactly that's exactly a perfect way to
say it now especially also when you add on to this that it was completed within the time frame of about 15 [ __ ]
minutes do you know how long a hysterectomy takes when you're a hysterectomy takes hours oh so this is
insane yeah and what's crazy like I've done what's called rapid autopsies those are the middle of the night fairs the
ones that are 2 A.M hey come in and do this really quick and a rapid autopsy you're going in there you have to you're
you're kind of doing it in a less organized fashion you need to get a tissue out quickly within two hours of
death okay even with that it's intense you are taking a moment to figure out and like kind of like Orient yourself in
the body even just to take pieces of tissue from certain organs in that 15 minutes I I it would be a
real challenge yeah maybe if you set up a time clock for me and I maybe I could do it but I would have a lot of trouble
and getting all that out luckily you would not have to like no that's wild but getting all that out in that amount
of time it would it would be a challenge so I don't think this is just like a leather worker no I don't think so at
all rough estimate like how long do you think it took him to do that for him to like kill her do all of that and then be
out they're thinking it was 15 minutes 15. they're thinking it was under it could be 50 minutes or less that he was
doing these things in one of them I mean we'll talk about Mary Jane Kelly who's the last victim he got to take his time
with that one because they were private he was inside of somewhere and he really
went for it but the other ones it was like he was going quick because he had to get the hell out of there most of the
time they would find them and they were warm wow like he was he had just left it's wild now all of that said what's
even sadder what they found out was that the cause of death was loss of blood from a severed carotid artery she was
actually actively dying before Jack the Ripper got to her she was suffering from
a disease that the doctor said was slowly killing her oh it affected her brain and possibly her lungs and the
idea is that was it was probably either syphilis or tuberculosis that she was suffering from okay so she was in bad
shape before now the murder weapon was determined to be a knife that was likely long at
around six to six to eight inches and very sharp yikes they thought the same thing for Mary Nichols he pointed out
that a slaughterhouse worker's knife would be possible for these injuries but not a leather worker okay so he was like
that's not saying they wouldn't have a knife like that they just wouldn't use it for their trade it's even crazy to me
to think that he could have been a slaughterhouse worker though because that Anatomy is still different it's
different but I guess maybe you have a little more you have a leg up on somebody that has no knowledge but like
an inside of a body but still it's a different kind of body um but again these these are very
important uh things to point out because with these being such big trades in the
area and everywhere it was necessary to narrow the scope a little and be like I don't think it's a leather worker I
think it's more of these people so again the coroner at the time said he was not
even provided a map of the area he wasn't provided anything that could he could refer to again to see where the
body was positioned they ignored his request for it so he was just like cool I guess I'll go [ __ ] myself then that's
so irritating again how you doing Dr Phillips not well [ __ ] because nobody's giving me anything to work with he's
trying to make it nice I'm really on the side of corners and I understand that but like that must be really [ __ ]
annoying you're like you need me well yeah they need him and they're not giving him any resources you need me and
you're not helping me out here now meanwhile 29 Hanbury Street where she was found turned into kind of a tourist
attraction because the people who lived there decided this was a business venture now and they started charging
people to come through the place where Annie was murdered and found the past was [ __ ] up yeah the past was [ __ ]
up and as was common back then neighbors were charging people to look out their windows that looked over the yard as
well past was [ __ ] up a little bit so the inquest had brought up a lot of distaste for the way the case was being
handled by Witnesses and by the Press gee whiz I wonder why a witness said during the inquest that when he Came
Upon a police Constable when he found Chapman's body so one of those men that he had grabbed John Davis had grabbed
the police Constable initially told him he couldn't come he had to go find someone else
so he was like we might have found a dead body and he was like I can't move I don't know what to tell you this [ __ ]
police Constable said will I have orders not to leave my post no matter what apparently some police constables were
not beat walkers but they just were sitting at a fixed post that was their job they couldn't move but no one was
happy with this [ __ ] excuse they were like dude there's a dead body I know you
have orders but like maybe you can leave your post for that that's a rock and a hard place it is a very rock and a very
hard place I will I will fully admit that yeah but they were like not happy with it yeah I can and I it's hard
because on the outside you don't understand like yeah like what could happen if he leaves us posted exactly
like is he leaving his post now that is leaving a post without a police that put
there and maybe that was Jack's intention all along was exactly police away from an area so he could cause more
damage because I was gonna say the other thing is if he left his post and then like he like he might have gotten in
trouble for that because Jack could have been walking by after killing her so I get it there's a lot there's a lot of
stuff yeah rules but that along with the like not giving the corn or anything they were like can you yeah you got to
get mad at what you can get mad at and try to understand what you can exactly now
Annie's brother Fountain paid for her funeral but she was buried in a public grave in Manor Park cemetery in Forest
Gate which meant people would be buried on top of her eventually and her family was not allowed to put a headstone where
she was so what the actual [ __ ] yeah they didn't treat uh death people in poverty very
well so in 2008 the cemetery where she is buried I mean I was gonna say they didn't but like or any anywhere now
don't treat people in poverty very well no still so in 2008 the cemetery where she was where she is buried put a plaque
where she's buried like around the area they don't know for sure exactly like the perfect spot that's so sad but it
says this plaque is dedicated to the memory of Annie Chapman died 8th September 1888 a victim of the infamous
Jack the Ripper her remains are buried within this area so at least you know the area yeah now Sir Charles Warren
tried to calm the increasing Panic that was starting to seep into white chapels spittle fields and Beyond with these
horrific mutilation murders right and in doing so he came off looking like an [ __ ] at
times for sure like September 15th after two murders so heinous they couldn't even be printed in
full detail in the Press he dictated a memo to the home office in order to transfer the responsibility of the case
into Donald Swanson's hand okay um this he was like another detective because with Robert Anderson out he was like we
have to give this to someone while he's not here until he gets here so Donald Swanson was who got it
the memo he wrote said quote I am convinced that the White Chapel murder case is one which can be successfully
grappled with if it is systematically taken in hand that's fine sure yeah I go so far as to say I could myself in a few
days unravel the mystery if I could spare the time and give individual attention to it
[ __ ] off my dude also like no you couldn't you didn't you you haven't you didn't right
you had many days you did not do it I could do it I just didn't you said it could be solved easily if someone gave a
[ __ ] and had the time that's literally what you just said If someone gave a [ __ ] and gave the time to it they could
do it but I don't that's the clip he said I would just solve it in a few minutes you know but I don't have the
time so I guess you all have to suffer some more bye also just like this isn't a Sudoku puzzle this is these are people
yeah these are human beings you should have stopped at the first part where you said it can if systematically taken in
hand it can be solved that's just hopeful we love hope if you can solve it in a few days take a few days and solve
it [ __ ] right we'll give you time off it's a pretty dire situation if I was on
that I would have been like okay Charles take a few days off we'll all take over
for you in school what's your duties I got it a few days you need me cover got it see you back on Friday with who's
Jack the Ripper is that would be great thanks like why would you not like come on if we're gonna prevent women being
found in the streets with their bowels wrapped around their shoulder that's not important to you no what so there was a
little more to that memo which makes it like a little better I guess I don't know that first part did not need to be
put in there and it made him look like a jackass yeah I think he might have just
been a job so the next thing he wrote in the memo was because he was trying to get it all organized now that Robert
Anderson wasn't there he said I feel therefore the utmost importance be attached to putting the whole central
office work in this case in the hands of one man who will have nothing else to concern himself with so he's saying I
think it's important we give it to somebody and tell them this is all you're working on okay which that makes
sense why the [ __ ] did you say the other you don't need to it was because it was
inserting his own [ __ ] self-importance and ego into it by saying yes I had it I could do it but I
don't have the time shut the [ __ ] up all you had to do was write that next part
and I would been like hell yeah Charles Warren but he had to insert that little [ __ ] toxic [ __ ] into it and I don't
appreciate it I just spit by the way spittle Fields spittle Fields everywhere so it says neither you or I or Mr
Williamson can do this I therefore you just said you could but okay that's the thing I therefore put it in the hands of
Chief Inspector Swanson who must be acquainted with every detail I look upon him for the time being as the eyes and
ears of the commissioner in this particular case he must have a room to himself in every paper every document
every report every telegram must pass through his hands he must be consulted on every subject I would not send any
directions anywhere on the subject of the murder without consulting him I give him the whole responsibility all the
papers in central office on the suspect subject of the murder must be kept in his room and plans of the positions Etc
I must have this matter at once put on a proper footing so as to be a guide for the future in cases of importance
so he's saying here's what we need to do put Swanson on the case he's in charge of the of the CID right now yeah he has
to be acquainted with every piece of this case he's the one working solely on it and we're going to look at this as a
blueprint for future cases this is how we should do it okay cool they don't do that though you know
so with you know so at this point like I said Anderson is still in Switzerland he
has not come home yet Sir Charles Warren had to put the investigation into Donald
Swanson's hands now locally he put inspector Frederick George aberleen in charge of the air so he was locally in
charge um so again overall Swanson local [ __ ] being taken care of on a more micro
level by aberleen a lot of people think aberleene was in charge of the entire thing he's often touted as being in
charge of the entire thing that's not true he did however do a ton of work for it and is synonymous with
that for good reason he really did do a lot okay he did kind of take over in a way
he tried really hard from the outset to catch this guy so September 10th only a couple of days
later a guy named John piser was finally found after he had gone on the run after
being named a person of interest you might remember a man named leather apron that I mentioned in part one that is him
finally got him Timothy Donovan who managed the lodging house that Annie Chapman stayed at told
police he and another witness had actually thrown paiser out of the lodging house on several occasions
because he had attacked and threatened women and that they had saw him wearing a deer stalker hat several times which
is what Witnesses like Mrs long saw the man last seen with Annie Chapman was wearing as well but you said this guy's
a leather worker he's a leather worker now Pfizer when they checked his home he had up to five long bladed knives in his
possession in his home on Mulberry Street clean or dirty no nobody says I imagine not dirty with
blood because they probably would have mentioned that yeah yeah he was a boot finisher so that wasn't completely
ridiculous that he would have several knives but it's still something he was brought in and everyone went wild over
it they thought leather apron was the guy wow because the media had really put it up there and they're desperate in
fact right after he was arrested according to Ripper code the book that I will also
um I will also uh link what is it called Link in the show notes uh it they were Distributing a Broad Street out in the a
broad sheet out in the streets is what I meant that said quote they've captured leather apron now if guilty you'll agree
he'll have to meet a murderer's doom and hang up on a tree cute right um so newspapers branded him the killer it
was bad they were literally like here he is that's him guys there's no evidence but he's gonna be charged and sentenced
in the Press it's like yeah he's a [ __ ] right he there's literally no evidence to say he's the killer at all
this is not except he has a hat that several other people also have now when you put it that way yeah a lot of a lot
was made of the fact that he also made hats on the side and that Polly Nichols had been walking around talking about
and showing off that Bonnet right that is a thing but that's a real [ __ ] circumstantial I wanted she didn't get
it did she get it that day she was seen with it in the last like day or so a couple of days yeah so it was new it was
something that they were you know all right I get it because I think she said to somebody like um like do you see my
jelly Bonnet yeah like it's brand new like and it was new okay that was one of the last things interesting now around
the same time aberleene brought in a man named William pigott to be questioned he
had blood on his clothing and he was seen sink um sitting drinking a beer at a pub in Gravesend when the police were
called because they were like this guy's just sitting drinking a beer and he's literally covered in blood like his
clothes had blood all over that's real weird he was also behaving very strangely and acting very nervous and
anxious aberleen arrested him and was shocked when he saw him because he said he was struck by obviously the blood on
his clothes but also by the fact that he had a very close resemblance to a man who witnesses said they heard ranting
and raving about hating women in a public house in White Chapel very shortly after Annie Chapman's murder oh
when they got him to the station he said he had been in White Chapel and he said
he was on Brick Lane when he saw a woman having a fit and she fell to the ground
he was obviously a hero when he tried to pick her up but she bit him he said on the hand so his response was to slap her
in the face and drop her on the ground I don't know and then he said he left because he saw police coming their way
okay no one confirmed this there's no we don't know who that woman was if she bit him on the hand it could have been
Annie it could have been she was feisty now he had a ton of injuries on his hands and he was covered in blood
including some which had clearly been attempted to be wiped from his boots he never explained this and they never got
an explanation for it they didn't ask him they didn't whose blood is this no they did he just never he wouldn't
answer oh and Witnesses said he wasn't the guy Witnesses saw him he was never picked out of several lineups everybody
they were and when they were brought to him it was dark Witnesses were like that's not him that's not him at all
like they were very like black and white that's not him and the leather worker thing you know but he was held a bit to
see if they could get someone else to ID him because they were like this is weird
or get him to crack you but during that time he got so erratic and he was slurring his words and like was actually
freaking out so they sent for a doctor and he was actually sent to an asylum shortly after because he was declared
legally insane from disemboweling a woman well obviously he didn't do any of the other
murders because he was in exactly in an asylum when all the other ones happened but why was he covered in blood we never
know and why did he we never find out we never find out that's that guy's William
Pig it's just like bye see you later huh question I don't know if this is a dumb
question leather workers obviously we unfortunately get leather from animals did they have to like get the skin from
the animals themselves or was it provided to them I actually don't know that because then I guess you could have
you're not like you know I imagine leather workers probably it's a symbiotic relationship probably with uh
slaughterhouses and other you know uh that kind of line of work maybe but I do not know for sure I don't know I'll find
out for part three cool thank you um but we'll leave it on Pfizer John piser leather apron there he was let go pretty
quickly because there was a literally no evidence and his Alibi was confirmed that he had been with family during
Annie Chapman's murder he had an alibi also saying that he was staying at the crossman's common lodging house on the
night of Nichols murder oh there was a fire by the docks that evening and he saw it and he had spoken to several
people that night while it was happening um so he was completely cleared of everything but he was pissed about his
name being smeared in the Press he took action and actually sued a bunch of papers for libel because once you're
cleared you can sue for liable like I said you were the guy he was asked a lot about why he actually went on the run
because they were like Well why'd you go on the run when you were named to Person
of Interest why wouldn't you just come in and say I didn't do it and give your Alibi and he said quote I will tell you
the reason why I should have been torn to pieces and that's all he would say about it he
was like I would have been torn to pieces if I came out in the daylight after they named me and he was like it's
because you guys named me yeah and if I'd come out people would have just it would have been a mob of people like
taking Justice into their own hands yeah that's true so he was never charged he was just
arrested taken in and let go immediately and they are back to square one and very
shortly after this there is going to be what is known as the double event the double event the double event and
Robert Anderson is still not going to be home for it honey you gotta come home Switzerland is nice but it's time to
wrap it up yeah like yeah what we'll see is he eventually he travels to Paris to
be closer to the stuff and then yet he doesn't eventually come home I'm like get out of Paris buddy you gotta come
down to London yeah come home Doctors Orders schmachter's orders you gotta come back no your mental health is
important so it is but like this is pretty big it is and it's your dream baby you gotta like [ __ ] or get off the
pot leave for your mental health I get that or totally stay and ruin it yeah it's like when this is happening like a
lot of people are counting on the police so they get it together here yeah but yeah that is the story of Annie Chapman
that that one I mean they're all horrifically sad but that one just like from start to finish like and I feel
like a lot of times in these stories too you get these little little glimmers of
hope where they kind of start to get it together like even Paulie went back and stayed with her husband for a little bit
and things were okay okay yeah and then it just went to [ __ ] again yeah it's a
lot of Ebbs like you said Ebbs and flows of happy sad happy sad not even happy really just like content sad content sad
and it's like there really never gets to happiness any word I don't know if there
really was happiness if you like actually I do know there was no happiness if you were poor yeah there
was really which is really [ __ ] up Society is the worst yeah it's pretty rough
uh next one you were gonna talk about the double event I'm gonna get into that we'll get into more of the police
shenanigans um maybe we'll talk about ghosts some more because why the hell not and
because if you have ghosts then you have everything exactly and if um we and we and we hope that you keep
listening yeah please do there's a lot more to come with this and we hope you keep it weird but that's where they
forget to say what at the end of your show again like I just did because wow that's really happening a lot lately and
I'm concerned for my brain's uh health [Music] laughs foreign [Music]

Jack the Ripper part two brings us the absolutely horrifying murder of Annie Chapman. Annie’s story, much like the rest of the women who were killed, is incredibly devastating. She was struggling with sobriety when she landed on the shady streets in Spitalfields in the East end and was having a terrible time trying to find work to just get by. Robert Anderson, the head of the criminal investigations department was still on vacation, Sir Charles Warren’s ego stepped on the scene and they were not even one step closer to uncovering the culprits identity.

Check out these great books on the case:

Jack the Ripper and The Case For Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect by Robert House

The Complete Jack the Ripper by Donald Rumbelow

The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper by Hallie Rubenhold

The Hidden Lives of Jack the Ripper's Victims by Robert Hume

The Ripper Code by Thomas Toughill

Also check out these sites on the case:

JackTheRipper.org

Casebook: Jack The Ripper

Connect with Wondery http://wondery.com/shows http://facebook.com/WonderyMedia http://twitter.com/WonderyMedia http://instagram.com/WonderyMedia

Brief Summary

This episode details Annie Chapman's murder and the chaotic police investigation during the Jack the Ripper case.

Key points

The Ten Bells Pub's Significance. The last place Annie Chapman was seen alive, a haunting reminder of the past.
Sir Charles Warren's Leadership. A look into the troubled tenure of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner during the Ripper murders.
Coroner's Frustration. The coroner expresses anger at the lack of information from witnesses.
Emotional Breakdown. Annie's brother suffers a breakdown after identifying her body.
Family Struggles. Annie's family faces financial ruin and personal tragedies after her father's death.
Annie's Struggles with Sobriety. Annie's battle with addiction worsens as she becomes pregnant and struggles to stay sober.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

He sliced and diced our dreams to pieces.

Quoting lyrics from a song about Jack the Ripper.

7:25WatchJan 2, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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