Episode 727: Stars over Whitechapel with Special Guest Aliza Kelly | Forensic Files

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. I'm Aliza. And this is a very special Morbid.
Hey-o. Hey-o. We have Aliza Kelly on the podcast again. >> Yay! Yay! So excited to be here. So excited to be
here with you both. >> It is always a treat when you're here. We always have so much fun. It is always
so fascinating. >> was just going to say we're [laughter] having a pizza party. We have pizza. We
have buffalo dip somewhere that we didn't even take out yet. Yeah, I know. We'll revisit that after. Okay. Okay.
You guys might remember Aliza was on the show we did Stars Over Salem. And Aliza
gave us all of the insights on everybody's charts that was involved in that whole hysteria. We went deep into
it. Go revisit that episode cuz it's fascinating. We were just like jaws on the floor the whole time. We just
relistened to some of that and I was like, "Damn, that was a good episode." It's so fun. And today we're going to be
doing Stars Over Whitechapel. Which is Elena's magnum opus. Yeah, this is what I've been waiting for. Yes. Yes. Yep.
And as I was saying before we started here, I think that this might be the thing that solves it.
>> I think so. It could be. It's not working from all the other systems, right? It's been over
100 It's like 140 years. >> Yeah. Almost, right? >> Exactly. And that's the thing cuz a lot
of people think that they figured this out. A lot of people think that this has been solved.
>> Insert Elena's rant. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And the thing is, I don't If you didn't
listen to our episode with Tobias Forge, >> Our very first one. Yeah. No, no, our
second one. Sorry. Our most recent one where we talked about Skalita. I go on a pretty sizable rant
>> [laughter] >> about why they did not figure out who Jack the Ripper is with this
quote-unquote DNA. So what we're going to do right now is I'm going to insert I'm not going to. Mikey's going to
insert that clip of me explaining why the DNA is not solving this case. It is not solved. It is not Aaron Kosminski.
Not I don't believe it at least. So here's the rant just to remind you guys. So, here's the thing.
I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper. Not one part of me thinks it. In fact, um there's many reasons for that.
The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me and it's the same person
bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info.
Uh that shawl that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming is found was found at
Catherine Eddowes' crime scene. Um one, they have no way of knowing that. The only way of knowing that would be if it
was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found at um on and around her at the crime scene that is
well documented and it is nowhere. There is nowhere that says there's like an 8-ft long, really expensive shawl that
might actually even be a table runner found on her person. Nowhere. So if we don't have that,
then how do we know that this thing is hers and how do we know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your
answer. We don't. So there's a big giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. Uh I
don't think it was found at the crime scene. I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think she would have
held on to that kind of shawl. >> [music] >> I mean, there's all kinds of stories of
her selling, you know, shoes earlier in the day and selling anything that was on
her. Uh it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole
thing is that uh Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who is said to have taken the shawl from the crime scene, a
supposed blood-soaked shawl he took from the crime scene. One, that would have been a immense risk to do that. And two,
I think we all need to remember what I said a thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series, we can't really
comprehend how dark these crime scenes were. There was no light. We're going by candlelight. You're telling me that this
man plucked a blood-soaked shawl from a crime scene and just brought it home for
his wife? I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact that Amos Simpson was a metro cop. He was a metropolitan police
officer. Mitre Square where Catherine Eddowes was found, that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being
there and even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene. So that gives me pause. The DNA.
The DNA, we don't even know what it is. It might be blood. It might be semen. They have no definitive answer for that.
So that 100% match, I don't believe. They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. And also, there is
no evidence of him leaving semen at scenes. Of course he can depart from his pattern. Of course that's happened
before. I am fully willing to admit that and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along
with it. But the fact that he never did this and there was never evidence of any
classic sexual assault or rape at any of these scenes, it was really violence and mutilation.
It doesn't really fit with the pattern. And once again, I'm willing to admit that a pattern can be broken if you give
me other evidence to tell me that that's so. I just don't see it here. The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's
what they're not telling you in any of these things. This is not straight-up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA. It can
eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect absolute. Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can
also be the person. This is can be thousands of people. Thousands of people in London can match this DNA.
So that's not good enough for me. That's not identifying. That is you can eliminate. And also, just to put a pin
on this, the researcher who has put this forward is Russell Edwards. Uh he doesn't have
a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really. Um I'm good I will of course give benefit of the doubt if
he can provide more evidence, but he also claimed once and so did his team that they found
um a victim of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett. Uh
and his family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors. And it
was really [ __ ] up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett and they
hadn't. Uh so that upsets me. That makes me question it. Of course, one massive,
monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life.
So if he can provide more evidence that says this is a 100% DNA match, which I don't believe he can, then I'm willing
to listen to it. But no, Aaron Kosminski is not Jack the Ripper. Mic drop. >> [laughter]
>> So that's why In conclusion I need the copy and paste file of that. I need to also just like
insert the [laughter] rant. And various other audio moments. >> We'll play it for you after this because
I I was pretty hyped up during that. I was like, let me explain Rightfully [laughter] so. It makes sense.
Everything you said makes sense. Yeah, cuz I think it's recently like surfaced again and recent I'm pretty sure like
Australia heard about it recently. I like that this random news station in Australia reported that it's been
solved. And so it's gone around TikTok, all over the place. I'm getting tagged in it, which I appreciate so much that
you guys tag me in anything Jack the Ripper related. Keep doing that. Love it. >> Oh yeah. Uh but I figured I should
probably let you know that cuz everyone's like, "What do you think about it?" I'm like, "Let me tell you
what I think about it." [laughter] Well, this is very interesting because I it's
reminding me of one of the astrology phenomenon that comes up periodically, which is that there's always, you know,
every so often at with some sort of cadence, there's some big exposé on, "Oh my god, astrology is wrong." Yep. There
is the signs have moved. They are not where they were >> Yep. 1,500 years ago. Like all of these silly
astrologers haven't considered the precession of the equinox. And every time I get tagged and there was a big
one in the New York Times that came out and people were like, "Well, what do you
think of this?" And I'm like, "It's the same It's the same article from three years ago.
>> [laughter] >> They do and they keep not talking to any astrologers and they keep sort of like
regurgitating it and then the headlines are always breaking news. >> And that's exactly what it is. It's not
a thing. And it's like and you get why that like the headline would be grabbing. It's
like, "Wow, we figured like It's clickbait. We've we've broken this wide open." And it's like, "Whoa." Yeah. So I
mean, I when I first saw all the headlines that were like, "DNA has solved Jack the Ripper case." I was
like, "Fuck yeah. Let's go." >> Yeah. And then I read it and I said, >> I said, "Get the And then I looked up
who did it and I said, "Oh, wait." [laughter] This guy again. Yeah, this guy. I've
seen his name before. So just so you guys know, I don't think it's been solved. I think we I think we can solve
it. Tonight. I think we're going to solve it tonight. Yes, personally. So stay tuned for this.
>> [laughter] >> And that the next clickbait is Jack the Ripper solved through astrology.
[laughter] Solved by astrology. We just combined the two. >> [laughter] >> Eat your hat, New York Times.
A new article that can go everywhere. [laughter] Combining the two [ __ ] articles.
So yeah, this is I'm really excited to talk about this. Everybody who listens to Morbid knows how obsessed I am with
the Jack the Ripper case and that I think I officially became a ripperologist during our research of it.
I think actually one of our listeners, and I don't know if I've mentioned this, sent me a pin that says Ripperologist.
>> And it's on one of your jackets. >> on my favorite leather jacket that I wear all the time. So, thank you for
that if you sent it. >> Also made I actually multiple people made you a certificate, right?
>> them, yes. I need to buy I need to print them out and put them up on the Just put
them everywhere. Like a like Harvard, you know, doctorates and everything. [laughter] I'll just put them up.
Well, next to your letter. >> Yeah. My the the framed hello letter. Yeah, see? Perfect. We got to display it
all. >> It's a little spot. Yeah, love it. That would Hey, that would give me some
motivation. There you go. Um but yeah, so we love this case is just fascinating. It's the and I'll say it
again, it's the number one unsolved case unsolved case in the world. I mean it's
it really is. And it fit with so many There's so many canonical victims for this one. It's so brutal. The I mean the
in-fighting between the police departments. It's got everything and Yeah, you have it all. You really do.
Yeah. So, I think what we'll do is we'll probably just we're going to start going
through the five canonical victims Mary Ann Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes, and
Mary Jane Kelly, which is the crescendo. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think it it's definitely
Mary Jane Kelly is considered the last canonical victim. And a lot of people will say like they think that it kept
going. I don't think it kept going. No, I think we talked about that on our original coverage. Where do you go from
from there? That's the thing. Yeah, that's it. It makes sense that it would end there. Mhm. You know? Yes. Yeah.
Though, depending on who you might have think was Jack the Ripper, that could change.
>> Yes. >> Okay, well, see I'm already excited. >> [laughter] >> I'm already excited for this.
>> Maybe you just change your approach. >> Ooh, okay. >> Okay. >> Maybe you switch it up. I like that.
>> Yeah. You've had enough of that kind of brutality. Now you go into more of a like a new one. Psychological. Yeah.
Maybe maybe. Try something new. Dip your toe in a different pond. See, maybe this
is it. Maybe astrology is going to solve this. I mean it's a different angle. It's a different angle.
>> see it come from this angle a lot. >> [laughter] >> No, it hasn't to be honest. If we're going to pretend
mitochondrial DNA is solving this, then why not astrology? Astrology is more >> [laughter]
>> is more definitive for identifying things than mitochondrial DNA is. So, I think so.
>> [laughter] >> There you go. All right, so who who are we going to start with?
>> So, let's start with Mary Ann Nichols, Polly Nichols. >> Our first canonical victim.
>> So, I should note, you know, and this is similar to what we had also acknowledge
with Salem, is that we don't have a lot of time. And in astrology, the best way to
calculate a birth chart is date, time, and location. So, we are missing that very critical time piece, which is going
to tell us rising sign. It's going to show us which houses all of these different planets fall in.
The houses show us sort of the themes of life. They also can help us understand timing. So, we're missing that piece.
So, in a lot of the in the majority of the birth charts that we're going to pull, unless we had a very specific hour
for something, we're going to look at the planets and the relationships that the planets are making. We're not going
to be able to discern the rising sign from these. That makes sense. Yeah. So, Mary Ann Nichols was born August 26,
1845 in London, England. She is was. Is. Is. Yeah. I always say is with a chart because
the chart is still living. I was Yeah. I just listened to the episode where you went over that and I was like that is I
love that concept so much. Like it goes on. And another really interesting thing is that and we'll
probably see this in some of our in in some of these characters today is that when somebody comes back into the
zeitgeist or the collective psyche, their chart is being activated. >> Right. So, we'll often see that like
even albums that are released after an artist's death or something, you'll look and you'll be like, oh, they're having
their third or fourth Saturn return at that time. Like their chart is still being activated and still experiencing
the passage of time and energy to it. >> That's so wild. That's really existential. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's
really beautiful also. >> it. It's it's a really cool way of exploring legacy. And a lot of these,
you know, Mary Ann Nichols, Polly Nichols as the first person who was murdered in in the
canonical five, the first victim of this, um there are so many interesting things that
I say this thing called tank, which means there are no coincidences. I like that. I love that. This is this is a
case of tank. Okay. So, she was is a Virgo sun and a Gemini moon. So, these are two Mercurial ruled
placements. Um both Virgo and Gemini report to the planet Mercury, which is communication,
it's language, it's storytelling, it's our understanding of things. So, you know,
not knowing all of her chart without that time of birth, what we can sort of discern here is that she was smart. She
was interested in things. She was curious. Um she was somebody who also was very
discerning. She was she had the sort of extrovert, introvert, in and out kind of quality to
her where she could be sort of like very blabber-mouthy, say the wrong thing at the very wrong time, but then also could
pull it back and be like, wait, but I have to get my life together. I got to get organized. So, there was this sort
of like back and forth quality. And it was all very about much about her communication and being understood. Now,
the reason that this is incredibly fascinating is because number one, she's not the only person
who is a Virgo sun and Gemini moon here. Interesting. Wow. And the other piece of
this is that she was murdered when the sun was in Virgo and the moon was in Gemini. Shut up. Wow.
Oh, that's weird. Yeah. There are no coincidences. Like it's like what are the odds of that?
She truly establishes this story, not just in her birth chart and who she is, but also in
in the chart of her death. And the chart of her death is also the chart of the first murder. It's the chart that
establishes the Jack the Ripper story. Wow. So, these two like it's almost like, you
know, and this is obviously a little out there for some people, but it's almost like we don't have Jack the Ripper if we
didn't have Polly Nichols. And it's almost like perhaps there was something about her Mhm. and their
encounter in particular Mhm. that set off this killing spree that this person went on.
>> Right. Because how else could it be that this person I mean she was murdered just
a few days before her or after her birthday. She was murdered on August 31st, 1888. She was born on August 26th,
just a few days after her 43rd birthday. While she was having her so her solar return, her birthday, and her lunar
return. The moon was in her sign. Wow. So, very very interesting to sort of establish and set the scene with this
person in this context on this night. That's really interesting. >> fascinating.
>> Like again, that just the odds of that Yes. don't compute. >> Like that's astronomical.
>> Something you said too like when you first started talking about her that she's a Gemini moon and then a Virgo
sun. And you were saying like other people in this case are that and how it's like I really have to get my life
together and like that kind of thing. Something we talked about when we when we originally covered the Jack the
Ripper case was that so many of these women were at a point in their lives where they were really trying to get
their lives together. And they were like just about to get there. So, it is interesting that you brought that up.
And that it's a key theme now in the astrology, too, like in their charts. >> Right.
>> And if we see astrology, so like what I I love so much about this is that we have her chart and then we have her
death chart, but that death chart is also a beginning chart. Her death chart is the beginning of the Jack the Ripper
murders. So, it is the end and it's like this path this passageway, this portal,
this threshold happening and ending in a beginning. Um and it's almost like the qualities
that she had, especially in that essence of like kind of stumbling and then picking
herself back up and then stumbling and picking herself back up almost is the story of perhaps even the murderer
himself. Wow. Like maybe there is some mirroring that happens here. >> There's some reflection. There's some
reflection here because if that was her story, she got murdered under a sky that
was very similar to the sky she was born under, that it's almost like the perfect
storm Right. of this person sort of being like, you know what? [ __ ] it. Yeah. Like this we're we're doing it.
This is what's happening. Wow. That gives me like chills. >> It's really so eerie. It's so eerie.
Yeah. And it describes Polly as a person. That whole like picking yourself up, falling like her whole life cuz we
went into it a little on our episode. Her whole life was like trying to pick herself back up.
>> Right. A hundred different times and like something knocking her back down. And it was from when like when she was
younger. Yeah, it was just her story. >> It was just her story. >> Yeah. Yeah. Another interesting thing is
that she was born with Saturn in Aquarius. And on the night of her murder and and during this time, throughout the
murders actually, Saturn is in Leo. So, Aquarius and Leo are opposite signs. So,
when she was murdered, she was going through her Saturn opposition. And so this is sort of like the the flip
side of your Saturn return. Okay. >> This is Saturn represents responsibilities and rules. It's this
very sort of like tough daddy energy. So when you go through the grim reaper It is your planet. [laughter]
It is. And when you go through your Saturn return there's this sort of reckoning of
the rules, right? Like growing up and maturing and becoming who you're supposed to be. Your Saturn opposition
is kind of when you're also facing similar circumstances, right? You're sort of like looking at your life and
looking at your choices. Not to say this should have been >> [laughter] >> how she had to reconcile it by any
means, but you know, 140 years after these tragedies occurred, we can also sort of think of of the fact that we're
talking about these people in a destiny fated legacy storied way, which is certainly not the case for so
many people who lost their lives in Whitechapel at this time, right? These people
have were really important for us continuing to tell their stories as archetypes and as as symbols
>> Yeah. of what it was like to live in these conditions at this time and be so sort of like beat down by all of the
forces that were working against you. Oh yeah. I mean, when you go into this time
period in Whitechapel in particular >> awful. >> That's why there were times when we were
covering this and Ash was like, "Oh my god, I got to stop out of this for a little while."
>> know. >> dismal and so dreary and gloomy and there was just like it felt it felt like there was no end in
sight to just like the the dreariness of it, you know what I mean? Like everyone was struggling.
>> Everything was dirty and just like dark and everybody was trying to make their
way, but like there was no way out. >> just drinking their problems away. >> is hell. It literally is hell and he
feels it feels like he swept in here and just became a personification of it. Right. Yeah. And also, you know, in in
this really weird way we can talk about that now you know, from the luxury of these lovely couches, but also recall
what it was like to be in those conditions where if there wasn't Polly Nichols getting murdered under the same
sun and moon that she was born under then we wouldn't be talking about it. You know, we wouldn't be talking about
what it was like to live in that time. No, we wouldn't even probably wouldn't even know what it felt like to live in
Whitechapel at that time or know any of that. >> Not at all, no. So it really is interesting.
>> Very So it's a really interesting start. >> It is. I also want to call out another
signature that we're going to see throughout all of this, which is really profound. And I I have goosebumps
looking at this and I hope that I can convey this to you when I share it, which is that
during this time, 1888 from 1888 until the early 1890s, we had a very rare astrological occurrence
happening, which is that we had a conjunction between Neptune and Pluto. So just as a, you know,
just a sort of we have not had this since and we will not have it again until almost the year 2400.
>> Wow. Until the 2390s. Holy [ __ ] >> So this does not have this doesn't happen in most people's lifetimes.
Holy >> [clears throat] >> yeah. This is a very unique thing to happen and to encounter. If this was
happening in our lifetime, astrologers would not even know what to do with themselves. It's so wild. Because
Neptune has a cycle and orbit of 165 years. Pluto has an orbit of 248 years. So for them to link up takes a really
really long time because they are such These are the two furthest celestial bodies we track in astrology.
>> Yeah, that makes sense. Neptune represents illusion, delusion, fantasy um it's it's mystery.
>> Mhm. It's mist, quite literally. It's it's things dissolving. It's things disappearing. And Pluto is the
underworld. It is death. >> [laughter] >> It is big deep transformation. And Neptune, this misty elusive
mysterious eerie sort of like enchanted supernatural energy combined with Pluto's own darkness and heaviness and
supernatural This is Whitechapel. This is just set the tone. This is actually This is like
mind-boggling. >> Especially when you go into like the mystery and the like even just miss I
was just going to say even just the miss is all you think [laughter] of. When you
think of Whitechapel, you think of the misty and dark dark Yep. Like full of death
and full of pain and full of like [laughter] struggling and mystery. And then we're still here talking about the
mystery. And that's the enduring Yes, that is the legacy of it, right? And then Pluto, which is death. death Like
mystery haze death. Yes. Like holy [ __ ] >> That's actually That's actually insane.
It's insane. That's wild. >> And so like we really need to just point out how insane it is that we'll never
experience that. We never have and like most people won't. But that's crazy to me that it's not going to happen again
for that long. It's not going to happen again, you know, for many many many versions of our
grandchildren. Like it's such a specific circumstance. And this case has that energy.
>> That one-of-a-kind >> Yeah. thing to it because it's like we've seen so many awful cases since
then, obviously. But this one has stuck in everyone's mind as like the most fascinating one, the most enduring one,
the most brutal one, the one that everybody just like obsessed like it becomes everybody's hyper fixation. And
it's like, "But there's many more that are also brutal cases. Why is this the one?"
>> You know what it is? I I feel like part of this being the one is that it feels
like lore. It feels like legend. It does. And I feel like that's like the Neptune role of it all. The Neptune and
there's also something Yeah, there's something paranormal about it. There cuz that was honestly like one of the things
That was one of the theories people had. Was was this a vampire? Was this a ghost? Was this somebody supernatural?
Even my kid thinks he's a vampire. He says I do. But it was one of those things people
talked about. He has to be a ghost. How can he get in there and get out there so
quickly? Like how was he never seen by anybody? Like it it has a paranormal aspect to it.
>> It absolutely does. Another thing that's interesting about this is that Neptune
represents the camera. It represents the lens. And one of the things in my research
around this that I kept having to be jump scared by at 2:00 in the morning are the photos. Oh.
of of these people >> the autopsy photos, the crime scene photo of Mary Jane Kelly.
>> Yeah. I saw those in high school for the first time and those will remain in your
brain forever once you see them. >> Exactly. And that is Neptune, the camera lens. And then Pluto, the death and the
legacy and that sort of joining forces. And I think that is one of the reasons also that this case is
is so enduring. Is that we have just enough technology and documentation to be able to not just say like and it was
brutal, but be like Look how brutal even by our like overexposed video game standards, this is [ __ ] up. Yeah, like
when you describe the Mary Jane Kelly crime scene your mind can't even conjure what that photo is going to show you cuz
that photo you're like, "That's a person in that bed?" Like it's and you describe
it, you know that he disfigured her to the point of not even knowing that that's a person on the bed. And you can
describe it as much as you want, but that picture will haunt you for the rest of your life if you look at it. And like
you said, it's just enough technology that we got those photos. >> I was just going to say like they're
some of the first crime scene photos we have. Exactly. Exactly. So this was occurring in the
sign of Gemini which is also very interesting. >> you're back. That happened with the with
the Salem witch trials, too. >> Well, and I think that we might have talked about
way back then a year ago how Uranus is moving into Gemini. We're even closer to that now than we
were then. But I think what's interesting about that is, you know, we talk about charts being
living and breathing entities. And we have this Neptune Pluto conjunction in early degrees of Gemini, which is
where Uranus is going. Uranus is often considered the planet Uranus is innovation,
breakthroughs, discoveries, shocking things. It's also often considered the planet of astrology. So I think we are
going to solve it through astrology. Oh boom. That is my thesis. >> [laughter] >> I'm for this.
>> But even for those who push back and say, "But what about the What about the DNA? What about the science, honey?
Honey, some things Some things we need the ancient texts for." >> Yes, and we don't have the right DNA
here, everybody. We don't have that. We got to move to the adjacent thing here. Got to keep pivoting. Got to keep
pivoting. And hey, if we maybe we can use the astrology to confirm the mitochondrial DNA because that's all
it's used for. It's not used to identify. I say it again. But maybe this is what it or maybe it's
going to con- it's going to confirm what I say that that's not which is Aaron Kosminski is not the killer. There's a
few more things that I want to just mention because this chart is again the birth chart of these murders, right? So
this is maybe the most important chart that we have. That's something wild. Um her death chart, our beginning of a
story chart. So Jupiter was in Scorpio during this time. It was in its final degrees of
Scorpio at this time of her death. It was at 28°. Mars, the planet that is often considered the most violent
planet, is also in Scorpio. Mars is like war. War. I was going to say, doesn't that represent Yeah. There's Yeah,
there's like a also a knife is one of the images associated with Mars. Like it is truly like it's like a blade, a
weapon is is one of its associations. >> Okay. Mars and Jupiter conjunct, both in
Scorpio. Mars at 22°, Jupiter 28°. Also, it just to sort of like contextualize Jupiter in Scorpio.
Jupiter is the planet of expansion. It enhances whatever where wherever it is. And Scorpio is associated with
the sort of like our own shadow. Mhm. Our own darkness. Yeah. So, my working theory, right, is that
there's something around Polly Nichols that triggers this impulse Okay. >> in in our murderer, right?
>> Okay. And that is triggered by Jupiter in Scorpio conjunct Mars in Scorpio It's
It's like rage energy. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And Well, she was a real like she stood her ground. Like she like Polly
Nichols was like not taking [ __ ] >> Right. Yes. So, maybe that was one of the things that set him off potentially.
Something that all every single victim has in common is that they all had their throat slashed, right? They all couldn't
talk. >> Yeah, they took away their voice. >> things that is defining about her as a
Virgo sun, Gemini moon is her communication. I was just going to say, yeah. And that is also embedded in this
chart as a sun in Virgo and a Gemini moon. And then also with that Neptune, Pluto Gemini signature. So, something
that I then proceeded to do for the rest of these, especially for our suspects, is to look to see
where is that conjunction activating their chart. Okay. Because to me, like that's a
really interesting piece of information. >> It's a consistent thing. That was And
it's And it's something that a lot of people talked about because nobody heard a lot during this. And it's, you know,
this was in the middle of the night. You're going to hear someone scream, you know, like it's pretty quiet out there.
No one would hear a lot of things. And it's because he would immediately slash their throats. He would immediately
silence them from behind or whatever he would do. So, it's like that really was his first priority.
>> First priority is to silence them. And that silencing to me, especially if we
think of this triggering him somehow, her triggering him, this energy triggering him, is like maybe that's a
clue, right? Is something about like speech and vocalization. Doesn't want to hear it. Doesn't want to hear it.
Doesn't want to And maybe he was silenced, right? Like maybe there is some sort of like a deep psychological
trigger that has driven him to this point of insanity of like no one's talking. >> Yeah, I don't want to hear you talk.
>> to hear it. Yeah. I could easily be like we could go right back to like the trope of the
overbearing, you know, mother. >> It's It's literally right in my head. Maybe he had a mother who, you know,
never stopped. >> That's interesting because there are some suspects with big mother issues.
Yeah. Big mommy energy. Cuz you think about like these are like sex motivated crimes. It's like sex workers and that
kind of thing. The Oedipus of it all. Exactly. I feel like he could have like an Ed Gein type mom figure that
>> Yes. was kind of overbearing, overly possibly over religious, possibly overbearing about like sexuality.
Something shaming. Like it feels like that's part of or was constantly talking about women such as our canonical five
who happened to be sex workers. Guarantee you he heard in part of his life horrible things about these kind of
women. >> Yeah. And so he felt some kind of rage against them. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then being like the little
[ __ ] he is >> Exactly. >> goes to like the people who are the most helpless, right?
>> Yes. And decides to do Or I mean, maybe his mom was a white chapel sex >> I was thinking. And he was getting
revenge, you know? Because that also just really lends itself to to the theory that he did have a medical
background because this is somebody that maybe came from a situation that wasn't
so great. >> Yeah. You know, like his mom was struggling to get by and maybe they
didn't have a good relationship. He got out of there and these women reminded him.
>> Yeah, and he wanted to strike back. >> Yeah. And he hated that. So, that's where it came from. Yeah. Yeah. It's a
possibility. >> There's There's all of this like I just I think I spent so much time with this
chart cuz I'm like this is it, right? Like if we're going to find something, it's going to be here, right here in how
it started in its origin story. >> And you build a law. The villain origin story. Literally. Is this chart.
>> Yeah. This I'm going to I'll give this to you to add to your collection of things to add to
>> [laughter] >> I'm like I'll frame it. Yeah, no. It's It is the villain origin story chart.
>> It really is. So, then we have victim number two. We have Annie Chapman. Dark
Annie. >> And this was about a month later. Or no, this was not a month later. This is another case of a birthday
correspondence. There was a lot of those. Yeah, they were quick succession. >> when we were talking about it
originally, I was like, "Oh my god, it's always right around their birthdays Yeah, it is. Yeah, cuz this was right in
September. So, Annie Chapman was born September 25th and she was killed September 8th.
>> Yeah. So, this was another situation of this was right after a birthday, this
was about to celebrate a birthday. I mean, I don't know who's like actually having like a Annie's celebration.
>> [laughter] >> Like who's doing pin the tail on the donkey here? But I am. I love a birth I love a
birthday. But again, killed under a Virgo sun. So, she is a Libra sun with a Virgo moon.
And she was killed under the exact flip of it. >> Okay. >> She was killed under a Virgo sun with a
Libra moon. Right. So, this is another one of those like very tank, eerie sort of mirroring
>> things that is happening. Complete opposites. What are the odds? Yeah. So, Annie
a different energy, a different kind of a character astrologically, a different birth chart profile. I mean,
similarities. They're born for sure, you know, in the same types of conditions. They're 5 years apart.
But with her Libra sun and her Virgo moon, we're seeing someone who is diplomatic. We're seeing someone who is
is very actively sort of like trying to, you know, harmonize, make things good, make things better for herself. Mhm. I I
She has a Virgo moon and every Virgo moon I have ever met is so hard on themselves. Yeah. Every Virgo moon I
have ever met is very and could be very self-deprecating. >> Mhm. And when I was reading about sort
of her circumstances and what was leading up to this night, September 8th, when she's murdered, it seems like it
was just like one of those like she's just like can't get a break. She can't catch a
break, right? >> No, which is such a theme in this. Such a theme. And this feeling of just like I
in her case, I think that she was a little bit more there was a little more giving up Okay.
in her situation. >> I think so. She She had kind of become her nickname. Her nickname was Dark Annie. And it was cuz
she drank a lot and she got like pretty gnarly when she drank. And I think she tried to get away from that and then it
sounds like she just kind of leaned into it a little bit. She had lost a lot by the by the end of her life. She had She
was very like skilled in a lot of ways. Like she crocheted, I believe. She like did a lot of like that kind of stuff and
she was able to like sell that stuff for a little while. And she tried to lean back on that, but it just wouldn't work
out for her. Something would happen that would knock her off, you know, the right
path or that path. And then she would just end up back here. So, I feel like there it happened
so many times that it does feel like she started just leaning into the Dark Annie
kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, it you know, the these sort of signatures in her chart
to me, it sort of it it's very It's sad because I get the sense that she really wanted to live a different and better
life. >> She really did. And she was Like we have some other characters who kind of are
just like, "No, this is my This is my vibe. This is my story." Yeah, like coping in a way. Honestly, even Polly
more, right? Polly is more just like, "This is my Yeah, here we are. Like you love me,
hate me." It's white chapel. It's white. Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. What are you going to do?
But with this one with this person, I think that like she was really sort of at the end of her rope. Yeah.
Absolutely. She was interestingly at the time of her death going through her Jupiter return. She has Jupiter in
Scorpio in her chart. That only happens every 12 years. For our lovely listeners, don't think
that when you have your Jupiter return, you're going to end up being slain by Yeah, don't think that.
>> [laughter] >> an unsolved Jack the Ripper. But in her case, you know, again, I'm
thinking of it of like why these people, why are these our archetypes? Why are these the people who are telling the
story? Why are these the people that we're still telling their story all of this time later? And for her, like there
for all of them, there's a legacy piece in this. And I think part of this legacy
piece was for her just like, "This is the end of the line." Yeah. She That she reached the end of the line of many,
many decades of of tragedy and suffering. Yeah. And trying to better it. >> Yeah. Her Jupiter return being in
Scorpio, I feel like it's so significant because that's a pretty dark placement for Jupiter, right? It can be. I mean,
it's It's certainly is, you know, something to as a reference point for our Jupiter in Scorpio is that we had
Jupiter in Scorpio during most recently during the Me Too era. Mhm. So, it was sort of during this this big reveal of
all of the abuses and power dynamics and the way that people were abusing the hierarchy and the systems and taking
advantage of women was when the last time that we culturally experienced Jupiter in Scorpio. Right. There is a
deep correlation to sex and sexuality, to shame, to darkness, to to things that we don't talk about. I mean, like Harvey
Weinstein is to me, like and his that big exposure around him eww is him is Jupiter in Scorpio. He is the essence of
Jupiter in Scorpio to me. >> Okay. You know. >> [clears throat] >> So, that feels so significant. Yeah,
that really does. >> when she died, you know. >> Absolutely. And her death was an intensified version of what we had
experienced with Polly, right? Mhm. We she had her throat cut. Mhm. She had her abdomen opened. Her uterus removed.
>> Intestines placed over her shoulder. Mhm. Um the removal What do you think about the
removal of the organs? And why couldn't they find them? >> That's the thing. Because Do you think
he took them? Yeah, I was going to say I think he's got trophies. >> had them because I that from hell letter
it you know, it's it's highly hotly contested of whether that's real or not, but that it did come with a piece of a
human kidney. And it was tested and it was a human kidney. So, who knows it could have been her kidney.
>> And [clears throat] I think he was probably planning on doing more of that kind of [ __ ] with it. But I think he
just ran out of time or he decided it wasn't He said, you know, like that can't keep
doing this or he or he just thought it was a little too close of a call. Like he like he had gone a step too far and
he was risking He almost BTK'd it. Exactly. He didn't want to BTK it. He didn't want to just like give the disk
and be like, "No, it's fine." Yeah. You can't face me I think he kept them. I think he kept them as trophies.
Interesting that the the intestines were thrown over her shoulder. I always found
that really interesting. That does feel >> Feels intentional. Yeah. You don't just
whip intestines over someone's shoulder. It's not easy to do. Like that's you unra- like intestines aren't just like
willy-nilly in you. You got to like take them out and do that. >> Kind of unravel them.
That's not by chance. Was she one of the I remember one of the particular victims
really carried like every article of clothing that they had. Was she one of those?
>> of them did. I know Catherine Eddowes was one of those that had a lot of It almost feels like, "Here, throw this
over your shoulder, too, while you're at it." Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I think um
Yeah, I think she I mean, they all of them had many layers of clothing cuz it's also freezing cuz it was like and
they just carried everything on them at all times kind of thing. And they would like, you know, collect things as they
went. >> Well, they didn't have a permanent place to stay, so they just had to sell stuff,
too. Like if you have a lot of layers, you can sell a layer and get some money. Yeah. But yeah, it always seemed to me
there was a message there for sure. It was almost like it was definitely taunting.
>> Well, I think that that's when for me I started to have that trigger of like the Black Dahlia. Mhm. Is the display.
Yeah. It's very theatrical. >> Which also happened during Jupiter in Scorpio. Really?
>> Yes. Oh, I just got all full warm moment. That's that's crazy. >> a coincidence. Not only that, but Saturn
was in Leo for both of them, too. So, Saturn and Jupiter, which are both considered like the head honchos of
astrology. It's like the two daddies. You I say Jupiter is casino daddy. >> Yeah. It's [laughter] like the Yeah.
It's like you go Yeah, expands. You go into Vegas with him. He's like dripping in gold.
>> that. Ladies on either arm. [laughter] And then I Saturn is the casino owner.
Oh, okay. Walking around. He's tapping people out. A little more quiet. Dealing with the mafia, with whoever it is.
>> Teaching a lesson. Exactly. Killing people in the back, right? Like So, you have sort of the external and
the internal parts of this system. >> I love thinking about it like that. That's actually really helpful to
learning astrology. >> It really is. I like that. But both of these were in the same
placements. And what are the odds of that? I mean, >> Yeah, what are the significance? There
must be a mathematician out there who can quickly generate that for us, but it it's very unlikely. It's very rare,
right? >> That's crazy. It only happens a few times a century. It feels significant.
Yeah. It does, for sure. They're square. That's the aspect they're making. So, Jupiter in Scorpio, as we said, it's
like, you know, there's the shame piece, the exposing, the darkness. Saturn in Leo, Leo is the performative you know,
theatrical Yeah. Mhm. sort of look at me energy. And to be in the spotlight Yeah,
to me at this point, we know that Jack the Ripper wants attention. >> Oh, yeah. But this is not something that
he's doing and trying to conceal. Right. He's concealing his identity, certainly.
But he doesn't want people to catch him in the act. >> No. He has some goals of these
encounters. >> wants to hear about it after. >> Yes. Yeah, but he's not he's not hiding
bodies. Yeah. No. He's Intestines on display. And he's getting more and more on display as these women
are killed. And he's getting bolder and bolder as he goes, too. Yeah. >> [music]
>> So, this is an this is an interesting one because this is also the last one that we have with Jupiter in Scorpio.
Jupiter's about to switch. Okay. Signs. Okay. >> think that this and that's my working
theory for why things really get wild. Oh, okay. >> Okay. That's interesting. So, next we have
Elizabeth Stride. Long Liz. Long Liz. Long Liz. They And they they don't know why. Yeah. They don't She's Long Liz.
Long Liz. Maybe she's tall. Maybe. They also said that she had a long face. Maybe.
Just something something long. The nicknames were [laughter] wild back then. They were. They're all they're all
like bullies. They were all pretty mean. Yeah, they were roast, for sure. I don't
want to know what my nickname would [laughter] have been back then. I don't want an 1888 Whitechapel name.
I'm sure there's a generator out there somewhere. >> [laughter] >> Wait, if it's not now, there is. We did
We need that generator. That's so funny. >> [laughter] >> So, um Elizabeth was a Sagittarius sun
um an Aquarius moon and she had a bunch of planets in Aquarius, actually. She had
>> She Yes, she was born in She was a Swedish woman. Mhm. Um she had Mars in Aquarius. She had Neptune in Aquarius.
The moon was in Aquarius. Jupiter was in Aquarius. She had the sun in Sagittarius. She was
a talker. Mhm. She was philosophical. Mhm. She was sort of, you know, she was unconventional. She was weird. She was
someone who did things differently. >> Right. Um so, it makes sense that she She's one of those that I feel like is
in the situation, but is also kind of like "Where else would I be?" You know, like
Yeah. I Here I have found myself in Whitechapel. It is a long way from Kansas. But like
I'm doing the thing here. Because she originally in Sweden, I believe, she was the one who registered as a sex worker
in Sweden so she could do it legally. Oh, [ __ ] >> to like check in and get checked and
stuff. So, she did it like Yeah, like this is the job I'm doing. That feels very Aquarius energy. Like I can do this
and like people should be able to do that. >> it official. And concerned with like the
world at large. So, it it does seem like she's just kind of like, "Yeah, this is
what I do." >> I'm owning it. >> Yeah. Put me on the list. Like I'm going to do this legally. And what I also, you
know, going back to that um to the sort of like the communication and the talking and then the silencing
thing. Like here's another example of of another female archetype who has like a very
ballsy chart. >> Yeah. A bold nature. Yeah. And who is it who stands up for herself and knows how
to defend herself and knows how to protect herself. Like sure, she is certainly a victim not just of this
murder, but like of the world and society and the circumstances. But she also was tough. Yeah, in fact, on the on
the night she died, one of the witnesses heard like one of the witnesses who saw
her walking with a man or saw her talking with a man heard this other person say to her, "You would say
anything but your prayers." And [laughter] like and she laughed. I love that. So, that's literally her.
Like she just reflected I mean, not to mention she has my mom's birthday. So, November 27th,
1843. My mom's not from here. >> [laughter] >> I feel like exact date, exact date, time, and location. Yeah.
>> [laughter] >> No, but my mom is a November 27 Sag. So, I know the energy. Okay.
>> I know [laughter] that energy. It it is. My grandma used to say that when my mom
was a little girl, she would like follow her from room to room talking. Like go into the bathroom talking. My mom She
goes to the basement. Like anywhere my grandma was going, my mom was following talking talking.
>> Yes. So, that really fits her. Yeah. You would say anything but your prayers.
Yeah. He's He's just like, "Damn, you're just talking." >> [laughter] >> And she was also when she was found, she
had a flower She had flowers in her hand. She had coins in her hand. Yeah, she had a lot
of things on her. But she was like in the process She was like doing things. >> Yeah. She was like talking, chatting,
doing things, busy. >> Oh, yeah. She was not just like wandering down the streets. Nope. You
know. She was in the mix. >> She was in the mix. >> For sure. She And it wasn't even, you
know, in for Whitechapel, it wasn't even that late. >> No, 1:00 a.m. I think it was she was
found. Yeah. >> sure. >> Yeah, that's I mean, that's just popping off in Whitechapel. That's the beginning
of the night. Yeah, happy hour. That's the pregame. That's when she was found, so this was way before.
>> Yeah. So, in this case, she had her throat cut, but no additional mutilation happened.
>> I think she it was interrupted, I'm pretty sure. Well, and then you think about the timing. It's like maybe
somebody was coming around the corner, you know. >> It's too early for him to be out doing
this. And he did it in kind of an open space. >> Right. I 100% think that this was
interrupted. Because of what happens with the next one. Yep. He had a vision. He did. Um
and I think he had a story that he wanted to tell with this. >> Oh, yeah. And this to me feels sort of
like a oh, [ __ ] you know, like never I got to this didn't work out. This wasn't
what I isn't this isn't the vision I had. I have to keep moving. That's why I think he had a double event next because
I think he was wanted to get it done. Yes. And this chart is interesting because it's as I mentioned, it's the
first one where Jupiter switches into Sagittarius. >> Okay. Now, Jupiter is in its domicile in
Sagittarius, which means that's where Jupiter loves to be the most. Our most recent reference of Jupiter in
Sagittarius is when COVID started spreading. >> Oh, [ __ ] It's [laughter] I think my
Jupiter is in Sagittarius. We'll discuss. Okay. Oh, no. Can't wait [laughter] to get to
that. >> It's it's this sort of like it's it's bigger. It's enhancing. It's amplifying.
It's taking that energy and at on this day, on September 30th, Jupiter was making an exact opposition to Neptune,
which is locked in with Pluto. It's that Neptune Pluto signature, which is Oh, [ __ ] in all of these charts, you
know, that was that's a very long-lasting signature because those planets move so slowly. So, all of these
charts, all of these death charts have that. And Jupiter, which is the magnifying energy,
was magnifying that signature of mystery, of murder, of sort of the intensity and the volume.
Like it literally was turning up the volume on this. And I think that and again, we're back to volume, we're back
to speech, we're back to sort of vocalization. I think that Elizabeth Stride was very much sort of I mean,
they're all very wrong place, wrong time, but this is one where it's like maybe we didn't have to have two that
night. Yeah. I think that he I think there there could have just been one. Mhm. Yep. But we have a casualty of a
casualty. >> a missed opportunity in his eyes. >> Yeah. So, yeah, that's that's our scene with
with this death chart, which is the same death chart because we don't have the exact time to the second or to
the fourth victim, which is Catherine Eddowes. >> our girl, our girl who is of is getting
talked about a lot recently. >> she had a shawl. Supposedly that's her shawl. It wasn't, though.
>> think so. Well, guess who has a Gemini moon? Catherine Eddowes. Okay. >> Yeah, so she is part of the signature.
She's part of the story that we're telling with the Neptune and the Pluto in Gemini. Because Polly had one, too,
right? >> Yes, and that was the death chart, the first chart has a Gemini moon. So, Catherine also was is a is an Aries.
She was born on April 14th, 1842. And she was born under a Pluto sun conjunction. So, when she was born,
Pluto was in Aries, her sun was in Aries, and we talked about Pluto being death, right? We talked about Pluto
being this like mysterious, underworld, intense force. But when I see something like that in a
chart, I think that this is a legacy that lives on. To have your sun connected with a force
like Pluto, of course you're going to be remembered for how you die, you know. Cuz that's
life and death all in one house. >> Yes. And Aries is a fire sign. We have another firecracker here. We have
another feisty woman. Not going to put up with your [ __ ] not going to be silenced.
>> Unless you do it immediately. I think she also has a temper. Yeah, she does. And the dude, I think she the guy that
she was with at the time or like hanging around with, literally told her that night like be careful, don't become
another victim of the Whitechapel Slasher or whatever they were calling him at that point. And she was like, oh,
I'm not worried about that. Literally said like [ __ ] that. She was just like, nope, don't care.
That freaks me out. Mhm. Cuz when someone says something like that, you don't want it to be prophetic.
>> Yeah, you don't want that to live on. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the worst prophecy you could give. You definitely
don't. But yeah, this is this is another strong, fiery individual who is doing her thing, not
taking any [ __ ] knows how to defend herself, knows how to take care of herself. Um definitely would know how to
stand up for herself. >> Yeah. That's a trigger for him, for sure. 100%. Because of the fact that all
of the I mean, we're on the fourth victim and they all have this in common so far. It's just absolutely a trigger
for him. Yes. And then this, you know, is is so interesting to me because this is the case where we have her story
living on, right? The shawl comes from this. Yep. The kidney Yep. what the next sort of incident that
we'll talk about is comes from this chronologically. Um then also this is where there's graffiti on the wall Yeah.
that I think is incredibly compelling. Mhm. And one of our characters, the the captain,
Oh, no, Sir Charles Warren. >> We're talking about Warren. Sir Charles Warren, the head of the London
Metropolitan Police, Mhm. has it scrubbed before any crime scene photos are taken.
Interesting. So, I don't have that text here, but I maybe you we could also pull it up, but it's
anti-Semitic surprise. >> Yep. Yep. [laughter] Surprise. Spoiler alert. Um but to me, the reason that all of these
pieces are so interesting with this person, with this death case, with this death chart, is the legacy bit of it.
This is when to me, our Jack the Ripper is being like, "Notice me. Yeah. Pay attention to me.
>> Oh, yeah. Throat cut, abdo- abdomen mutilated, left kidney removed, >> Mhm. uh parts of the uterus removed, our
first instance of facial mutilation. >> Right. And this is someone who's not taking any
[ __ ] >> No. This is also someone who in their chart has that sun Pluto conjunction of
I'm going to be remembered for how I die. Yeah. And I am going to tell a story that exists long after I am gone.
You know what's even weirder is she got arrested that night. And when they asked
her to write her name down, she wrote nothing. Spooky. Isn't that weird? For like
somebody who's going to be remembered for how they died, they wrote nothing as their name. And just like you're like
you're so close to not being nothing, but to being be being removed removed from existence.
Like physically. I hate that so much. My arms are fully chilling so badly. But she's something.
>> She is. And we're still talking about her. And all of I mean, so much evidence
comes from this particular murder. Right. Not the shawl. The alleged shawl comes
from this murder. But this one this one's also really intricate, too, like how he removed
things. Like he took her kidney and he removed it from the renal capsule, which is like a very thin lining to take and
then he did it like very delicately. And again, this is one of those things where
she was killed in a place that was darker than dark. Like her particular place that she was killed, I think was
it Mitre Square, I believe, or something. She was right out in the open. She was and she was in an alleyway
and it was like dark, dark, dark. And she had just passed a police officer. She said something like like good
evening, old [ __ ] or something to him. Like she said something like that. That's my girl. That's my Aries sun,
Gemini moon girl. And she's just waltzing past a police officer and then he does it in an alleyway in the pitch
blackness faster than you can imagine. And he's being so delicate to slice through a
renal capsule to remove a kidney. You have to know. You have to know. about the body. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. You have to know that you need to be delicate with that. >> You have to. Yeah. And I think she had
her uterus removed, too. Like there was so many things here that he did so fast.
Yeah. >> And it's interesting cuz it was a partial removal, so it's like did he not
have time to finish it? >> Yeah, I mean, he was doing a lot, you know. Yeah. Yeah, and the facial
mutilation, Mhm. you know, also we have images of it. Yeah. Also horrifying. Also jump scares for me in my research.
Mhm. It's hardcore. It is. It is really intense. And you wonder, too, with that one because again, he's like escalating.
And cuz the other ones didn't have the extensive facial mutilation. It's like we go here and then to go from here, we
obviously have somebody in between, but to go to Mary Kelly, it's like he was on that path.
>> on that path. of just making them not a person anymore. >> Right. And I think that was like the
message here. Was he was slowly making them not a person. >> Well, maybe that's really where the
intestines thrown over the shoulder comes in with the second woman who was killed. It's like that's where he
started. Like you're not a person. It's almost like animalistic. >> Yeah, cuz he makes it almost like a like
you said, like he's making it almost like a part of her clothing, you know, like Right. something strange. Like
let's just flip them over her shoulder cuz that's and that's not something human. And then it just continues to
escalate. >> Yeah, that's why I think there is there is some personal vendetta in connection to sex
workers. >> Yeah, because it's a humiliation ritual. >> them slowly but surely not recognizable
as human beings because that's how he saw them. But he just did it slowly as he went.
Yes. >> Which is so [ __ ] up. >> Yes. And so what do you think about the graffiti that was here?
That always kind of confounded me. I feel like it was unrelated. >> I remember talking about that and that
was our consensus was that it was unrelated. And I think that's also part of why Charles Warren got rid of it or
ordered it to be washed off cuz I think he knew as well that it would be connected.
>> Because it's also like would he really have had the time to do everything he did to mutilate her and then again in
the pitch black yeah write that on the wall. >> Yeah. My my initial instinct was that it was
unrelated. >> Mhm. But then the letter comes right after. So if we think of the letter if we do
say that that was an authentic communication which I think it is. I feel like it probably
>> The From Hell letter? Yeah. I think the From Hell letter is my favorite part of
this whole story. >> with the From Hell letter. I mean it's so spooky girl coded. It's
>> [laughter] >> terrifying. It's so terrifying. But the reason that I sort of paused on it
because because it's anti-Semitic it's like like what business like why are we throwing this you know subplot into the
story right? What does it have to do with this? Exactly. But then to have the letter right after to me there is this
piece of communication that's happening and then going back to the astrology that communication signature right? That
these women aren't talking but I have something to say. And I want to be heard. I want to be
seen not for you to find out who I am. >> Or maybe he did. >> I mean he really starts to get pretty
bold dicey. Right. And then he reaches out to the media. It's like that he is testing the waters.
If that graffiti was there and he saw it and that sparked an idea. Like that was
like oh Let's do it here. >> Cuz then the communication started. So it's like he almost saw that and was
like wait I can communicate. That's interesting. Like I can communicate not just through this and what I'm doing cuz
obviously what I'm doing I'm communicating in some way but people aren't getting it. Like no one's getting
it. >> No one's getting the writing on the wall. >> I and he literally is like I'm seeing
the writing on the wall maybe I should send a letter. Maybe I should communicate with words.
>> Right. Right. If this is here. You know. Yeah and maybe also cuz obviously he was
paying attention to how the investigation was going. Yes. >> So he also saw that the that that was
scrubbed off. So he's also thinking oh words matter. They have meaning. >> to take them seriously.
>> are this is something that I can incorporate into into this storytelling because that's I mean he's telling some
sicko story here in this and that's what he wants to convey. >> Right. So yeah this is this one is really
a notable one because of how much evidence both real and alleged evidence and then
also missing evidence is coming out of it. And then the next thing that I have is
the From Hell letter. >> Yep. So that's October 16th 1888. And this is sent to George
Yeah cuz he was a Lusk that's what it was. I try I tragically don't have a birthday for him other than that he was
born in 1839 was the year he was born. So he is the a builder and a decorator. Could you imagine that existing in
>> [laughter] >> Okay. He's got a dreary vibe. >> [laughter] >> Edward Gorey-esque.
Um the chairman of but he becomes the chairman of the Whitechapel vigilance vigilance
So he is like you know what I got to take matters into my own hands. >> Neighborhood watch let's go. Love. We
love a neighborhood watch. And he receives this letter. This package a parcel if you will. Truly a parcel.
>> October 16th 1888 um that has the most iconic haunting letter ever. And also a kidney. And also a kidney.
>> little piece of a kidney. Fantastic. That's that right there I'm like I just I don't
see how you can't think that's authentic. Like yeah. >> also tested the kidney and were able to
determine it was human and it was female and it was likely from the left side. Which Catherine Eddowes' kidney was on
the left side. >> Which is crazy that they could do that back then. I know I know I'm like keep going.
>> Right. >> [laughter] >> You can't find this man. You're doing great work. >> [laughter]
>> Yeah. So this letter is is everything to me because it also you know it we don't have again the exact time but
it arrived in the afternoon. So we are able to kind of play with the time a little bit between 3:00 and 6:00 p.m.
So with that in mind it's very possible that that signature that Neptune Pluto signature in Gemini could have been like
distinctly at one of the big angles of this right? I have it a little bit after 4:00 p.m. and that puts it at the what's
the point is called the IC which is the base of your chart which I literally refer to as your villain origin story.
And that also would mean that the moon in Pisces is right on the ascendant. Pisces is ruled by Neptune so it's
creating mystery right? It's it's continuing this yes this dreamy puzzle pieces and it's also adding to the
drama. Something that I always think about and that I think often gets overlooked with Pisces and Neptunian
placements is that they have this sort of like glamour and mystique to them. So there was an aestheticism [laughter] to
it. There was a lot of intentionality about the presentation the parcel the kidney the kidney being in in a spirit.
And the fact that he was saying he tried to eat some of it. So he was upping that
like I'm nasty >> [laughter] >> like he was like oh also I'm a cannibal. And unless you didn't think that I was
[laughter] twisted. Are you scared I'm also a cannibal so it's like he's upping it. Yes. Yeah. So
this also this chart also puts Mars right at the midheaven. Mars again being violence war knives.
You know I grow things. >> [laughter] >> So this this From Hell letter is is truly from hell. Yeah. It is truly truly
from the bowels of hell. And this is also like determination right? So he's determined to make a name for himself
when he sends this letter. Yes. Yeah. And it makes sense again with the addition of like recognize me. In
addition with the with the Hannibal-esque like I ate it you know with a fine canty.
Yeah. You know like that's the vibe like he's getting theatrical he's upping his ante he's trying to be
he's try and the aesthetic of it all he's like I'm now a cannibal. Just like he's he's
laying that out as like it's oh and I ate it. I had a fried up and ate it. I fried it up it was delicious.
Here's the rest. For you. For you try. Why do you think that he sent it to this like
citizen >> [laughter] >> this this vigilante citizen? I think because the police commissioner just
wasn't getting it. And the I mean that's like the whole reason that the vigilante
came to be is because the police commissioner wasn't really getting it so she needed to start figuring this out
and I think whoever Jack the Ripper is recognized that and was like oh well this guy's going to spread the good word
that I'm a cannibal that that I have this kidney that I'm this like deviant man. You know. I think so too.
Yeah it's it's so interesting to me you know the timing of it too it's two weeks
after the last murder and then we still have a ways to go. You know it's kind of
the halfway point between the two most gruesome and final murders. So what was going on? What was he doing?
He was writing letters he was eating kidney he was doing something with these organs I think. Experiments maybe. I you
wonder what he cuz I I also wonder I'm like Elizabeth Stride was supposed to be Catherine
Eddowes. Like that's clear. So it's like did he always have five in mind? Was there always this you know extra
or was it always supposed to be four? Is there some significance to four instead
of five since I don't think he had intentionally went for five. I think he got [ __ ] up. Five went so off the
[ __ ] rails. That's why like I think maybe he initially wanted four and cuz also that makes kind of the most sense
the with the way he escalates if you take Elizabeth Stride out of it. Right. It kind of
pause almost because there was an interruption. He didn't get to go. Like the the intestines over the
shoulder like that's that's escalation. And then you go to Catherine Eddowes and it's
way more escalation. There's the facial mutilation there's the removal of more organs there's lacerations everywhere. I
believe her I think her genitals were like severely lacerated. He went like really frenzied in that one. And then he
goes about a hundred steps higher with Mary Jane Kelly. >> Yeah. And it's like I do wonder if it
was supposed to be four. And that they were looking at the significance of the five and everything, but there was
always a significance of four, maybe. I wonder if he also and like you know, if we were to talk about
Don't let me talk about ghosts because I always end up siding with the ghosts. Now Jack the Ripper is is [laughter] not
a ghost. So I'm not So I'm not siding with him, but I also am wondering if maybe he really wanted
to get caught. Yeah. >> Before this the final one. Mhm. And he was really also being tortured. Mhm.
Mentally. Yeah. Because there's enough of a pause and there's enough of an outreach where he could also be just
like losing his damn mind. I mean clearly this is like a very unwell person. >> Disturbed individual.
>> so many suspects that did end up going into asylums at the time that everything
abruptly stopped. So I think you could be onto something there. >> Valid. Yeah, and it's kind of like it's
a cry for help. He's like I'm a cannibal, too. >> Yeah, like I'm really really bad.
I really need help. >> Like I'm eating these organs. >> YEAH. SOMEONE COME find me. Yeah. It's
like I think there was like we did a case of like the lipstick the lipstick killer, yeah.
>> And he literally wrote on the wall like for the love of God, please find me or I
won't stop. And it and it kind of feels all similar in a way. Yeah. It's like you could go either way with it where
like he really went to lengths to not be caught. But then also that pause and then the frenzy at the end. You're like
what did happen? >> Well, I feel like there is like such a dichotomous nature to whoever this is.
Absolutely. >> Of it's like I want to get caught. No, I don't. >> Gemini. I want to get caught. No, I don't.
Probably. So many killers are. They are. We'll see. You know, but so many rappers
are, too. So There are good [laughter] So many podcast hosts are. I love a Gemini.
>> Who doesn't love a Gemini? Thank you. Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's you know, it also then makes
me think that it's another point for that he could have done the graffiti, though. Yeah. Of like maybe if I'm
anti-Semitic, they'll pay attention. >> Yeah, like I could I'll make myself the worst person I can possibly be. An
anti-Semitic cannibal killer. That'll do it. >> But then I also on like the flip side of
it, I do think he views these women as like subterranean. Yeah. I don't think he views them as people that it's like
as people, period. >> like look, I'm a bad guy. I think he's like I'm not a bad guy. Like I'm taking
out the trash. I think that's literally how he views it as like they're >> he can't decide. people, so like why do
you all even care? Maybe he can't decide, though. Maybe it's yes, they're trash and yes, I'm disposing of them and
I'm a great guy because I'm you know, taking them off the streets. And then on the flip side of that, maybe he's also
like but I'm a killer and I ate these kidneys and I'm doing all these [ __ ] up things that I can't stop myself.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that letter definitely feels more just like look how twisted I am.
Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And you wonder if like he started this with that like cuz I there's that
personal thing that I feel is there that like somebody in his life made him The mother or the mother role. Yeah, like
somebody in his life, like a wife, a girlfriend, a mother, like some woman in his life made him hate, like in his
mind, made him hate these women. >> Yes. And I wonder if he started with Polly thinking like this is my like
journey I'm going to take. I'm going to get this out. I'm going to I'm going to teach these women a lesson kind of
thing. And then he saw and I think to him he was like, well, no one will give a [ __ ] because who gives a [ __ ] about
these women in his mind. And then he saw that people did give a [ __ ] about this
and that it was causing such a stir and he slowly started falling into that like
wait a second, like getting that ego and getting that like people are scared of me. So then now I'm like was he like he
was we know he's a little [ __ ] but it's like was he even more of a little [ __ ] than we thought he was?
>> I mean probably. >> everybody like suddenly fearing him and being like Jack the Ripper, you know,
like and all of a sudden he's like [ __ ] like I have power I didn't have before
and that's why it kept escalating. Well, when you think about the circumstances of of Whitechapel and living there at
the time and nobody really had power. Nobody had word or exactly. So now he finally
has it. >> Yeah, he's like he's got everybody like eating his words. >> the shadows, which is also then going
back to that signature of Neptune and Pluto that we have in all of these murders. It's like because Pluto is also
power, right? It's it is power. So yeah, you have power, but nobody knows who the
[ __ ] you are. >> Yeah, right. And you're a little [ __ ] So like So do you have power? Like
really? You don't even Nobody even knows who you are. And you're attacking people
in like the dead of night on on dark street corners. And immediately cutting their throats.
>> cutting their throats. It's like so you're you're a little [ __ ] Little [ __ ] At the end of the day. L B. It's
true. Jack the Ripper is a little [ __ ] He is a little [ __ ] You heard it here
first. >> Yeah, I think it is important to to call it like it is because >> Yeah. this you know, he has become so
mythological. >> Mhm. And like he's gotten like sexy and >> cuz like people turn him into this like
It's a supernatural thing. >> that's just like looming around with a cape and a top hat.
>> there's like a sex worker sex energy and it's I don't think he was I don't think
he was with like a cape and a top hat. Like I don't think cuz also he would sit and I think actually I think on the
Tobias episode he pointed this out. He would stick out like a sore thumb in Whitechapel walking around in a [ __ ]
cape and a That's so funny. They'd be like it's probably that weirdo. They'd be like it's probably that [laughter]
weird old guy over there. With the cape like the top hat guy. Maybe [laughter] this rich guy that's
walking in here. Right, this [ __ ] murder moved to town. Yeah, it's like no, I think he probably looked like
>> in. He might be a little a dirty like like everyone else there. So it's like it's so weird how it's
become like this sexualized version of him of like look at this like caped figure and it's like But that's like the
Neptune Scorpio Like even like like somebody sent us this from it's like a little like the visitor's guide that you
get on the tour in Whitechapel. And even there hot silhouette. He's like this big
looming figure. And it's like that's not what he looked like. I know it. Yeah. Drawn tiny. We
will not see a top hat on that man. If he was to materialize in front of us right now, no top hat to be seen. Yeah.
No cape to be seen. >> Ew, I hope he does not materialize. I hope he doesn't, either. You know what?
Bring it. Show yourself. >> Let's talk to him right now. You want some more outspoken women?
We're right here. >> [laughter] >> We'll outnumber you. Yeah, yeah. It's not Whitechapel. This is New England.
And we have a Mikey in here, so we're going to kick [laughter] your ass. But he's like yeah.
And we're like wait, no. And he's like I'm going to go home now. >> [laughter] >> Canadian.
I'm not ready for this. >> [laughter] >> That's so funny. I love it. >> So nobody
catches him. No. And unfortunately >> [laughter] >> for all of this time. This is just a
funny one, but there was a saucy Jack letter. Do you remember the saucy Jack letter? That wasn't real, though. It was
an interesting one, though, cuz I think that one mentioned the double event. >> So it was So I remember that one I was a
little iffy on the on the Cuz it wasn't released that there was a double event yet when it was written. So that's an
interesting one. >> But it also could have just been somebody who like lived in that
particular area. >> somebody definitely did write that, you know. But yeah. Or one of these like
silly police officers who Yeah, let's send a letter to the top boys. They were kooky police officers. And there wasn't
a lot going on aside from this, which you would think this would be enough, but >> Yeah, it was just a bunch of dudes
entertainment. It was a lot of the same. A lot of the same misery. Same old, same
old. So Mary Jane Kelly. She is the youngest of the victims. She's She was 25 when she died. We know
her birth year. She was born in 1863. Her situation is very different than all the others. She is young. She was
murdered indoors. She was murdered in her home. Very upsetting. Um in the room she was renting. Um she also was
completely like brutalized I mean she She evaporated. She wasn't even She yeah. can
There was nothing holding her together anymore. >> a human form in the crime scene photo.
Yeah. I mean and like pieces of her were placed in different places in the room.
Her face was hacked apart, like her thighs are you can see just bone. Yeah. He like hacked it right to the
bone, like I can't imagine how long this took. It said it said over two hours. >> It had to have taken so long. And how
did he not calm in the middle of that? You know what I mean? Like how are you frenzied
for two hours? I think almost I think he was How did he not How did he not lose steam? See, I think he was frenzied in
the beginning and I think cuz it it takes a lot to cut into a person. Like it just does. There's a lot there's a
different layers of a human being take a lot. >> Layers of skin, muscles, tendons, bones,
And I think he was frenzied and I think he was frenzied when he went at her face. I think he was frenzied when he
went like at the when he was hacking away. >> And when he killed her. And then I think
he had a moment of like stopping for a second, breathing, and then meticulously cutting off her breasts, chopping away
at her thighs. Like I think he took a breath and then got meticulous about it. >> It's also possible
that he thought he was going to get found Yeah. in this process. >> So he was just doing this.
>> Doing the most he could. >> literally buying time being like, well, I guess I'll just keep going because no
one's coming yet. >> Yeah, I I wasn't considering that um in the in preparing these charts, but
as we've talked about it, you know, like I think that it taking this long of time and you could
argue well, he was indoors, so like he had the luxury of time. >> Yeah. But there was still like coming
and going. And this was also happening like, you know, in the early hours. Yeah.
>> So there was some movement. >> leave for work and get out to do their [ __ ] >> happening at like, you know, 5:00 a.m.
>> Yeah. Sun was starting to come up, you know, it's not the middle of winter yet,
right? We still have a sun that rises pretty early, right? >> That's true. He also, I think he
I I'm pretty sure there was like a fireplace in the room, and I think he like made the fire like blazing, too.
>> Yes. Like the fire was blazing. >> So it's like come look in here. >> think he was drawing attention to it,
which he could that could be drawing attention to him while he's in there, or drawing attention to the scene after the
fact. >> Yeah, maybe it was one of the last things he did. >> Yeah, but it's definitely drawing
attention. That was a blazing fire. >> Yes. That she definitely didn't set. So this is This is the chart where This is
the only murder that takes place during Scorpio season. And Scorpio season is is that veil
between worlds season. Um Halloween occurs during Scorpio season. It's end of October into November. Um and we've
talked about Scorpio energy represented in the other planets, but it's, you know, it's that life and death and power
and intensity. So this Scorpio season sort of backdrop here, I think, gives it this really
eerie, dark, psychological tone. We also have um the sun in the same place where Jupiter and Mars were when this
whole thing started. So there is a sort of like this full circle, yeah. This this
conclusion that's happening here, too. >> And I wrote a note. I'm seeing crazy Jupiter. So Jupiter now is, you know, is
at 10° of Sagittarius, and we talked about this sort of, you know, this amplification and this magnification.
And I think that that growth and that dynamism that was happening here in terms of the way that he was doing and
the extent of the violence was also him getting crazier. I mean, obviously. But the reason that I bring that up is
because something is changing in him, too. You know what I mean? It's not just like,
"Oh, I'm learning how to do this and I like what I'm doing, so let me like up the ante for the next one." It's
also like he is absolutely unraveling. Yeah, like where where do you go from here?
Sagittarius is known to like have a sense of escapism, right? And then Jupiter's going to expand that, so maybe
he's trying to escape from himself, and that's why he wants to get caught here. >> to get caught. He 100% wants to get
caught. >> to get out of this cycle. He took his time here. He wasn't frenzied through
this whole thing because he placed like organs under her head. He like placed some under her legs. So
like he was He's just going nuts. >> scene. Like he was And like with this one, too, which is interesting, he took
her heart. Like just her heart. Took it and never found it. Took it from the scene, they
never found her heart. And for her for the organ to be the heart that he takes this time That's so significant.
>> Like that's their significance. What do you think about that? >> Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I mean, in
medical astrology, the heart is associated with Leo. Um Saturn is in Leo in this chart in all of these. We had
Saturn in Leo. And there is this very much of, you know, this energy of ego and sort of
making your mark. I mean, I think it's very performative. I think it's very much about sort of like, "And now I take
your heart." And like this is your life force. Your life force. And like this is
the testament of like taking something from you that is like also symbolic of love and symbolic of
affection and connection, but it's like I'm taking everything away from you. >> Yes. Take it to Take your heart is to
take your ability to be alive. >> Yeah, your vitality. Makes you everything. >> Yes. To take what makes you human.
And this, I suppose, could go cuz I'm thinking about it and I'm like, okay, if this is like a medical person,
I think it is. Which I believe it is, but I wonder, too, like at that time what they considered the like the life
force. >> Humanity of you? Your brain or your heart? Yes. And to me, it feels like
maybe like I think now they look at it more like your brain is probably what makes you human. When you're brain dead,
nothing else can really happen. But back then, I wonder if it was a little more like romanticized where it's
like the heart is the thing that makes you human. And like in the beginning, we were saying how
like he looks at these women, I think, as subhuman, not human. And I think he was making sure that everyone else saw
them that way. This is his like magnum opus of like, "See, she doesn't even have a heart. She's not even human.
Like that's what makes you love, that's what makes you kind, that's what makes you a good person, and I took it. She
doesn't even have that." Yeah. Like it feels so significant. >> loving. She's not worth remembering.
>> She doesn't even have a heart. In in his Which means And it's also Yeah, it's
also very much sort of like, "I am in charge of you. >> Yep. I own you." >> I I have this now, and I always will.
>> Yeah. And I wonder if it's like that, and that makes me think, too, that whoever it was that he was thinking of
when he killed these women was in his mind cruel and unloving, which could be a mother, could be a
wife, could be a I mean, it could be a sister. It could be anybody that he saw as this person that was close to him.
>> prominent female, for sure. >> Yeah. I think I think you're definitely on to something with that. Uh the moon
was also in Capricorn on this on this night, November 9th, 1888. >> Tai. >> Well, moon in Capricorn, and, you know,
I don't want to this For anyone who has a moon in Capricorn who's listening, you are not Jack the
Ripper, so don't don't [laughter] personalize this. This This is about him. Not you.
But the moon is considered to be in a very compromised place in Capricorn. Um Capricorn, you know, the moon represents
the mother. Mhm. And the moon is is how we take care of ourselves, how we're taken care of. It's in its
domicile, it's in its home base in the sign of Cancer. It's very nurturing, loving, maternal, supportive. Capricorn,
it's opposite sign, which is also connected to the south node of past lives. So another indication that this
is something historic that he's replaying here. But the moon in Capricorn is like
mommy issues 101. Because that's like >> This man has mommy issues. He absolutely
does. >> That's like your mom being your biggest critic. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And of course, you know, we still have uh And also you being heartless Mhm. literally
>> [laughter] >> Yeah. about your mom. Because Capricorn is ruled by Saturn, and it is um it it's
it does not have time for emotions. It does not want to be sweet and tender. It wants to [laughter] It's rules. It's
rigid. Yeah, it's by the book. It's by the book. So >> Which is also like maybe that's why his
like mom probably was somebody who was against sex work. It was wrong. It was against the book like in in her mind.
And maybe that's why he felt this way. >> it could be that, or it could be I mean,
in astrology and all spirituality, opposites are the same, you know? To be so against sex work is to be a sex
worker, right? It's like it it ultimately like sort of it's its own tail, right?
And I think that a moon in Capricorn, you know, if we were to do this sort of psychological analysis of it, it's
it's feeling like you weren't loved. So to me, this would indicate more of maybe a mother who was out, you know,
using her body with a lot of men, doing something that, you know, wasn't neglectful to her
children, to this Jack the Ripper. >> It does feel that way. Like just not connected. And I'm saying using her body
kind of almost in a channeling sort of way of as I'm thinking of how he would be perceiving it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So then to mutilate these bodies and to rip them apart and to take
apart the bodies, it's like you >> that you have. >> Yeah. It's like I I'm deconstructing
this. Who is my mother? Who is the body of my mother? I I 100% think that that is what it is,
that his mother was likely sex worker and was not around or something of that cuz I mean, you look at a lot of
unfortunately, the Canonical Five especially, or any of the ones that aren't the Canonical Five, but have been
mentioned in the Whitechapel murder file, they have a sim like there's a sad path
of like sound a lot of them in the past. >> kids, and they'll do their best to try
to be there, but then they end up on the streets again and having to do this, and
they end up like not seeing their kids, or they do see their kids, and they have
these like strange relationships, but they're always trying to get back to that like mother role of like being
there, and it's just not attainable. >> So it is a thing that happened so often there, and so often in Whitechapel in
that time period, >> And so much so that it would be rooted in the history of it.
>> Yeah, it wouldn't be shocking that this could be a younger guy like in his 20s,
you know, who had a mother or has a mother who was going through a similar thing. And could still be on the streets
right now doing that. Like who knows? >> And we haven't brought up the fact that
all of these women are also alcoholics. >> All of them. And they all have nicknames
like associated with their alcoholism. And even on the nights of their death, you know,
many of them are drunk. Many of them were seen drunk. They were in jail because they were drunk that night. In
And this time and in this place it's like those lifestyles coexist, right? It's it's difficult to get out of the
situation when you also are struggling with addiction and then you also have to sort of work
in a field that allows you to have and enables your addiction and you know, addiction, right? An addiction is going
to make you very very difficult for you to be a good mom. It's very hard to be present for your kid and I'm sure that
it's even worse than that. I'm sure that this Jack the Ripper was also probably like sexually abused. He could have been
sexually abused by his mother, you know? I'm sure it's the darkest and most horrific version of the story because
these are the darkest and most horrific ways of expressing that, you know, and processing that pain. And wasn't the I'm
I think the kidney, the From Hell kidney, was in some sort of was in the mind. It was in a spirit. So it's like
was was that true? I mean that's also preserving it. You know, alcohol is part of that. Like alcohol is part of
this whole thing. Alcohol has to be part of it. It really does. I think we're solving
it, guys. We are. We're in process. We're figuring this out. So that's our that's that's our last spitfire lady yes
of which they were all were we remember them all. We have names for them all which is pretty interesting and
you know, cool I guess. Okay. And the astrology just makes so much sense. It really does and it's
it really is that whole like there are no coincidences. The odds of most of this stuff is
astronomical. >> [music] [music] >> So then we get into our funny cast of characters.
We have Sir Charles Warren, Sir Charles Warren, the head of the London Metropolitan
Police came in in that role in 1886, left in 1888. Not long. Not long. >> [laughter]
>> So he was a an Aquarius sun and an Aries moon and the first thing that I jotted down
when I was looking at his chart was that oh he hates being told what to do. And he has a temper and he looks out for
himself and he is not an easy person to collaborate with. Yeah. And you know, we
have some other placements as well that are interesting here. He was he has a Saturn in
Sagittarius. He has his Jupiter in Scorpio which means his Jupiter return was happening
during this time. And like coinciding with Jupiter. He also the first murder which is sort
of you know, the birth chart of these murders coincided with his south node of fate and destiny.
So there was this between having a Jupiter return in Scorpio which is you know, it happens every 12 years and
it's supposed to be a very auspicious time. We typically consider it this time of like luck and abundance and good
things coming in. There were a lot of things that were happening all at the same time.
Bloody Sunday happened just a year before November 13th, 1887 which you know, he was sort of the he called for
that police brutality that was taking place then. So he had previously been thought of as this sort of like more
progressive guy. He was an archaeologist. He was an academic. And then suddenly he becomes this like
tough guy. Yeah and and that's not like what his skills were. >> [laughter] >> That's not what he was good at. So it's
almost like and this happens in astrology. It's like if you're going down the wrong path, the universe is
going to like push you back on the other. He ended up going back into more academic work.
And into better suited for it. Yes. So yeah, I thought that that was so interesting because he was you know,
he's someone who was kind of like he wasn't in he wasn't doing the right kind of work for
being this Aquarius sun of like oh let's go and explore Palestine and think about
like these different regions of the world. The first picture that you see when you Google him is like him you
know, in some exotic location with like the colonial apparel on. And that's honestly the vibe
that he gives anyways. When you look at a picture of him, you're like what are you doing? What are you doing here?
You got a big old mustache. What are you doing? Yes. >> [laughter] >> Yes. And not this cuz you're not
>> [laughter] >> I mean it's your right the him [clears throat] having that graffiti
cleaned off before they could even come and take a picture of it right there. He
was like oh come on. This isn't nice. Hey don't say that. Come on. You got to keep you got to take
a picture of it, my guy. Like he messed up. That's not how a crime scene works. And he didn't even realize that that was
going to make him look bad too. Like he wasn't even thinking that way cuz he's just not good at it. Yeah.
Yeah, this was this was not his skill set. So he resigned literally on the day of the last murder
which is another tank, another there are no coincidences. Very interesting. But you know, with having the head of
the police department resigning at this time, I think it also speaks to just like the chaos and the kookiness
of the investigation at this time. It's just like you know what? It's like you're all the way in. [laughter] We're
not doing it anymore. We're so deep. And now somebody else just has to take this on from from this. And that also
it's like the looking out for yourself thing. Like my guy. Like you're really in the thick of like
something horrible happening in this community and you're like you know what? I don't want the criticism.
I can't take it. I've had enough. I've had enough. Every man for himself. That's enough
bossing me around. >> [laughter] >> Do it yourself. Figure it out. Bones. He said no. I don't want to deal
with this anymore. Yeah and and ultimately like better for him. But it's interesting that that was his Jupiter
return. You know, his Jupiter return was like I'm in the wrong place. I'm in the
wrong field. And for us that kind of like sucks because his self-actualization journey
means that we don't know who Jack the Ripper is and probably if we had somebody who was like a little more
locked in like some of these some of the people who came in later on. Exactly. A little more of your passion.
>> [laughter] >> A little more of your mission, your dharma if you will. What you're good at.
Go with your skill set. And then we have Donald Swanson. So he was in charge of overseeing the
Jack Ripper murders. Him and Robert Anderson who is like probably the funniest character here.
Out to lunch. Literally. He was in Switzerland for most of the murders. And then he was on
vacation again. I have one more family vacation left. I was just >> [laughter] >> going to say.
He was like you'll be utilizing that. He was like they said if I don't use it, I
lose it. So I'm I'm going to go. I'll be in Sweden. Like damn. So the two of them together I
sort of see them like they work together. They were sort of passing the torch back and forth when when Robert
Anderson was out, you know. Out of office on, >> [laughter] >> Donald Swanson was coming in. So Donald
Swanson, a Leo sun, a Capricorn moon. So Robert Anderson, a Gemini sun and a Virgo moon.
So it's that reverse of something that we've already started to see. Yes. Gemini and Virgo.
So what's kind of interesting cuz I was musing on this one in particular where I
was like okay, well we know that this is these are important placements for the murder's chart, right? The chart of the
murder, Polly Nichols chart, she was the reverse of it. So what does it mean? He also had
Neptune and Pluto directly on his sun. So that's signature that we're tracking through all of this. Like he was being
activated. I'm like is he the murderer? >> [laughter] >> That's why he keeps dipping to Sweden.
But he does something interesting in the case which is that he obviously he and Swanson feel
shame for not finding him. So they are the ones who bring in Aaron. They're the ones who start talking about
Polish Jews. And that whole narrative really begins under their watch. And to me, you know, when we go back to
the story of communication and storytelling which is the signature of this chart and this whole narrative,
it's like this is how you tell a story, right? You find a scapegoat. Also. And this is not to say that you know, I
don't want to completely rule out Aaron Kaminski. Is that his name? Kaminski. Because there's some really interesting
things we have to look at in his chart. Some really like like your where our heads are going to explode when we see
his chart. I'm scared. And the relationship between Robert Anderson's chart and his chart. Mhm. So,
a little spoiler, a little tease, if you will, of what could come. But, he establishes him and but then Swanson
doubles down on it and writes in like the margins of like it was him. Like, ooh. Yeah, like his deathbed, like
>> Yeah. Right. He's like, he did it. He did it. And I think it's Is it Swanson?
Swanson took [clears throat] really like detailed, intricate like research notes
>> Okay. on this case. Like, he went deep. >> And he is a Moon in Capricorn. Oh, so he
is >> There you go. >> [laughter] >> So, that's why. A Leo Sun, Capricorn Moon. >> Oh, there you go. He's kind of destined
for his role. Yeah, in this all. >> Yes. He was very serious. >> Right. He was very serious about his
work, his job. He was very serious about picking up the slack, I think, for Robert Anderson.
Um but ultimately was there were details that he got twisted at the end. >> Yeah. He was also
>> Well, he was also the person who I wrote it here in my notes, he believed it to
be Kosminski. But, the death details that he has around him don't add up. >> Mhm. He's When he says that it's
Kosminski he already And he's like, but Kosminski died a long time ago. He ha- He hadn't died yet.
>> Yeah. So, He was conflating him with So, he was conflating him with another Polish Jew in the area whose name was
Aaron David Cohen, potentially, but then Cohen was sort of the anglicized version
of more Polish name. And at some point their files were actually Two Aarons become
Yes, exactly. >> [laughter] >> When Aarons collide. Gemini. Yeah. More Gemini energy. Gemini
is the twins, right? So, there was this sort of like conflating and he's we're we're looking to these two people to
sort of be like, well, you have all these notes. What do you think, guys? Yeah. What's
your finding? And they can't even get the names right for these people. Yeah. And to me, then this also goes back to
the undercurrent of then the sort of subplot of the anti-Semitism in Whitechapel. Yep.
>> And this makes that graffiti to me really important as a detail of just even time and place.
>> Oh, for sure. >> Where we have anti-Semitism here in this community and it's building and we also we all know
where things go in Europe >> Exactly. Not long after that. >> That's right. So, it's an important
detail. >> are moving in. And then we have a unsolved case and we have these immigrants in the community who
are also going into insane asylums. >> Yeah. Maybe for good reasons, maybe for medium reasons, but whatever it is, it's
very easy to be like It was them. Yeah. And they're dead and locked up, so don't
worry. It's done. Case closed. >> Nobody else talk about it anymore. You can all sleep soundly. Yes. And that
happens now. Oh, yeah. It happens now where police will rush in It happens less, luckily, now, but like these big
cases will happen and they'll rush to pin it on someone. West Memphis 3 is a key one. Yeah. Where he said himself
>> back for those stars. >> we should do those stars, for sure. Where it was like three eight-year-olds
who got murdered, so of course the community is up in arms. Wants this solved, wants to find out who did it.
They found the first three kids they could pin it on Yeah. And we're like, so it's fine. They did it. Don't worry
about it. >> Now they're locked up. Is this the Is this the Damien Echols case? Yeah. That
story is crazy and the the police chief they they asked him He had zero evidence
to arrest them and he they asked him at a press conference. Yeah, the satanic panic.
>> lies and like false testimonies. >> asked him on a scale of zero to 10, how tight is your case? And he said, 11.
>> Yeah. And it's like he didn't have a shred of evidence against these kids. >> With no physical evidence whatsoever.
>> Sometimes police departments feel like they need to put out that like, we are
so confident about this, so everyone else should be. >> Mhm. And it's it's so stop talking about
it. >> Yeah, in fact, we did this with >> have any more questions. >> Richard Speck. We just co- We just
covered that case. They had nothing. They had no leads, absolutely not a shred of evidence, but they came out to
the people in the press and said, we're super confident that we have we have we have so many leads, leads up the butt.
We are >> We know what we're doing. Because it's embarrassing for the police You know,
there's a lot of It's your job. >> Yeah. It's your job. And in the public can build to a crescendo of chaos.
>> there's not a lot of understanding. There's not a lot of room for that. Yeah. So, I think that was part of this
is they were like It's fine. He's in an asylum. He's who you thought he was. He's an immigrant.
What Didn't we all know that? Like, that kind of thing. So, it just pleases everybody. Like, shut up. It's fine. We
did our job. We figured out who the bad guy was. Like, the end. >> Yeah. So, maybe let's look at at Aaron's
chart here. >> We need I'm so excited. I just have our brain rocked. Especially because
Aaron is a Virgo Sun, Gemini Moon. And that is >> [laughter] >> what Polly was. Whoa. That's everything.
>> the Sun and Moon were at the first murder. Whoa. That >> [laughter] >> Hello. Wow.
>> Hello. Wow. That's damn Damn. Okay, tell us more. What else could I say? >> [laughter]
>> That's it. You're like, I already Case closed. You're like, that's it. Case closed. You don't need the mitochondria
No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. [laughter] Um So, you know, it's interesting
because obviously he has a very important He was born September 11th. Maybe a tank, I don't know. September
11th, 1865 um in somewhere I can't pronounce, Poland. >> [laughter] >> Płock, Poland. Poland. There you go.
>> Bear with me. Um and he I wrote it Basically, I just wrote all over this, has the same Sun and Moon as Molly
Nichols and the same Sun and Moon as the birth chart for her death and for the first murder. That's so weird. That's
>> So, what? Yeah, like what does that mean? What does that mean? >> Again, that's crazy coincidental.
>> He also had Jupiter in Sagittarius. And Jupiter at the last murder, when we said that Jupiter in Sagittarius was
that big crazy energy, it was exact to his. The exact degree. >> Exact degree. The final degree. Damn.
There's 30 degrees in each. >> Yeah, zero to 29. That That's weird. I'm just like, that's
weird. >> And not only that, but remember a Gemini Moon and especially his is at 8 degrees, it
was exactly conjunct the Neptune Pluto signature. Yep. That is this distinctive signature of the
>> So, he is fully like It's like those Yeah, those puzzle pieces that just Yeah. He just locks in.
>> He locks in. Um And the person who >> Ripper Aaron? The person who I know. I The person who accused him,
Anderson, right? >> Anderson was the one who first, I think, came up with it and then Swanson kind of
outed him. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, Swanson wrote it in the margins. >> like, it was him. He's like, hell yeah.
Yeah. Kosminski. Who's hell yeah, brother. So, he Remember, he is the reverse of
that. Right. So, he also it's like they're these mirror images. So, they're sort of circling each other. Like, so
entwined and that. Yeah, that's pretty wild. So, it's really interesting to me. >> Yeah.
>> Because So, he's a very easy scapegoat, right? Let's Let's hold the how the chart shows up as
something significant that we can't ignore. And then also recognize that he was nonviolent.
He matches the description of somebody who could do this cuz he was a mentally ill local man, but he did not have a
history of any you know, he does not have a history of violence towards women. He doesn't have a history of
violence in general. Um he was very frail. One of the issues that one of his mental illness
expressions was he refused to eat. So, there's reports of him weighing like 98 lb.
>> Yeah. He's not going to be frenzied for 2 hours in a room. >> do it. >> There's no way. He was a I think he was
a barber at one point, which back then barbers did have anatomical knowledge, but
>> degree, though. >> degree and when you add the frail- frailty in it. He also I Well, here's
another piece of the communication is that he basically only spoke Yiddish. Oh. >> He did not speak English.
>> would not be able to write those letters. >> Be Yeah. And the communication from them
>> Yeah, these ladies to go into dark alleys with him. Yeah, right. That's true. But, that's another communication
narrative of this story. >> Yes. So, it's interesting because we have this person who I you know
is kind of a a perfect storm for someone that we can pin it on, right? But, then we also have
the shawl that keeps coming back. Like, the New York Times article about astrology not being real keeps coming
back. This shawl and this evidence, which I know we have we put your insert in here already,
>> [laughter] >> but the fact that like this we can't seem to divorce We can't get
away from it. >> Yeah. this suspect from the from this murder and but my in my heart, like,
it's not him. >> Yeah. It just doesn't make sense. I think it's because he's the one I think
Swanson putting that little footnote in there and it being such like a weird little like, it was him.
>> Right. I think that was the thing that just like you can like a hang a hat on
that really easily, you know what I mean? Cuz that's the one that like endures >> Right.
>> as the name. Yeah. But the fact that it was conflated with another name, first
of all, they didn't even know who they were talking about there. So, we don't even know if he meant this Kosminski.
>> have meant the other guy in town. >> Yeah, and they were like really old and like writing memoirs and they were like,
you know, >> like, Oh, we'll give you the the big the big ending by the book. >> There was a couple of Aarons in there,
why not? Well, maybe the whole him fitting so perfectly into the puzzle piece is just you're going to be a part
of this forever, even if you're not the Yeah. >> person who did this. Your name is going
to be associated with it. >> that is your destiny. >> Yeah. Yeah, you're part of it.
>> Your destiny is to be another piece of the story. He is part of the story whether or not he is Jack the Ripper.
Exactly. And I think that when we look at him in this story and him and Polly Nichols, you know, having the same sun
and moon, Mhm. the the the the suspect, the alleged murderer, and the first victim, and then the sun and the moon
being in those same points on the first murder, it's like of course he would get
swept up in the energy of this. >> Yeah. Yeah, he's part of the energy of this. >> Yes, he is.
>> Whether he And he's also part of the zeitgeist of that moment. >> Yeah. Right. Mhm.
And him having a Jupiter return um at the, you know, at the moment of this final most brutal and horrific
murder, is that a tank? You know, is there no coincidences about that? And then suddenly it's like, well, we're going to
direct the attention over here. But also in his life, he was falling apart, too.
>> Yeah. Right? In his own >> a different way. >> potentially separate life. His mental
illness was getting worse. He wasn't eating. He had to move back in with his family.
>> Yeah. He was put in an asylum. Mhm. So, it's to me it's just it's like sliding
>> Yeah. Yeah. He was put into an asylum in 1891. Um and he was listed as a suspect in
1894. So, he wasn't even initially listed as a suspect. So, to me what I think is also
interesting, it's like these years go by. We have, you know, uh five plus years now. And we have
a person and I don't think that they had an astrologer working with them at this
time. They probably should have. >> They should have. >> have a person who is the chart for the
murder. Mhm. So, it's like, well, here it is. Yeah, throw it all on him. >> This is this is the same. And again,
it's so easy to do with someone who's been put in an asylum to just be like, well, he did it. Yes.
>> why it stopped there. >> it stopped. And it's over and everyone you can go back to your normal lives.
>> And it seemed and it's like that narrative fits to a degree where you're just like, well, of course nothing else
happened after this. He's in an asylum. It stopped. But it's like, babe, I don't
think you would have kept going anyway. Well, he was also getting ready to leave. That was the finale. I think that
was it. That was the crescendo. That was the apex. That was the finale. That was
Elfine and he was going to be done with it. >> Yeah. It's like, so I don't think that
people will say like that's, well, obviously he was in an asylum. That's why he couldn't do anything else. And
it's like he wasn't going to. >> No, that wasn't the plan. >> Like that was it. He he had done his
master plan. Who knows if he started a whole different series of something somewhere else later or if that was it.
>> Right. >> And he either killed himself, he got caught doing something else, like
whatever. But I don't think he was going to keep going the same way he was. >> Well, he also didn't get put into an
asylum for another 3 years. So, So, it didn't stop him. Cuz he he was doing these in quick succession.
>> would have had to have been completely mad at that point at the end of the Mary Jane Kelly murders. So, it
wouldn't have taken 3 years for him to end up Yeah. >> I think that it could have been someone
who had a similar profile to him. You know, it could have been another local lunatic, obviously. But like it's not I
don't think that it's based on even just the physical description and what the manifestations of his mental illness
were, I don't think it could have physically been him. You need to have the strength, stamina to do that. All of
the above. >> And again, the knowledge, the patience, a steady hand. Yeah. >> They had all these things.
>> Yeah. But now my favorite um person on the case comes in. So, my favorite is Abberline.
>> Yes. Do you like Abberline, too? I I love him. Remember, we talked a whole bunch about him.
>> Yes. So, Abberline comes in and is like, step aside. I got this guy. >> him. Oh, yeah.
So, um you know why you love Abberline? He's a Capricorn. >> Oh. >> [laughter] >> Of course he's got this. Of course he
does. And of course he says, step aside. >> shut the hell up, everybody. I got This
is a solo [laughter] investigation now. So, he's a Capricorn. This solo investigation.
>> [laughter] >> He's a Capricorn sun and he's an Aries moon. Oh. >> But this rocked me.
So, his moon and Pluto, which, you know, we've talked about Pluto, are conjunct in his chart.
So, moon in Aries, Pluto in Aries in his chart. And when I was jotting down, you
know, when I was just sort of musing on this, I wrote very strong connection to women.
And he if this energy could almost express itself as wanting to be like an Avenger the hero for women. Oh, yeah.
And then as I was, you know, pulling up his bio and understanding his role, I found that he was raised by a single
mom. >> Yep. Wow, yeah. And I >> I I got goosebumps because I was like, oh my gosh, he understood the humanity
of this case >> Yeah. in a way that some of these other >> They did not. guys just like
they were thinking about their own ego, they were thinking about their vacation days.
>> [laughter] >> They were just not locked in. They weren't locked in. But he was locked in
and something that also was an interesting testament to that was the fact that he would patrol the streets
himself and also with his, you know, with other police officers that he would sort of put in charge of that. And they
would give women money to go into shelters for the night and to have beds so that while they didn't know what was
going on, that they could be safe in the middle of the night. So, he was like actively trying to protect
>> for women, like literally. So, if I were to like cast this, we would make this
sort of the the hero sort of mirror image to the Jack the Ripper >> Oh, yeah. who hates women. Right. Who is
the antithesis of that. >> Yeah. Who hates women. So, it's to me like seeing that moon Pluto in Aries
signature and then he also has the sun conjunct Saturn both in Capricorn in his chart. Very serious, very committed.
Also, you know, if I were to see this in a chart of just anybody now, I would say
like, oh, you were the you had to be the parent of your household. You know, you
were probably very you had to grow up really fast and take on a lot of responsibilities. That obviously checks
out for his upbringing. You know, his dad died when he was young and his he was raised by his single mom, right? So,
he had to figure out how to take matters into his own hands. >> Take on his father's role or something.
>> Take on the father's role and he kind of, you know, in this story of all of these different inspectors, sort of
became the only one who who really I feel like was sensitive to the conditions. And he believed that George
Chapman was Mhm. Jack the Ripper. Okay. And George Chapman, who we have his chart,
>> Okay. who is a serial who is a serial killer, >> Mhm. hates women. Ding ding ding.
>> Boom. >> [laughter] >> And like you said that was his finale, but maybe he started doing stuff else
there. >> have done something else. That was >> Cuz I don't think after that you're
going to stop killing entirely. >> No, I don't think he was. have fun with that, you know.
>> There's definitely something something there. But yeah, I think I think he maybe switched to a different
place or he switched to a different >> method. [clears throat] >> MO, you know. So, George Chapman, um who was
uh who was executed for the murders that he ended up being convicted for. Um which was three women who were his
mistresses. And he basically, you know, he would poison them to death. Um but he was also very, very violent.
And he was very physically abusive to all of the women. But he was a womanizer. He had lots of relationships
and women around him and he was jumping from one marriage to the next and making
women call themselves his wife and then he was bringing other women home. And it's like basically he was trying to
have a harem. Um And he was a serial killer, right? So, he was born on December 14th, 1865,
making him a Sagittarius. And also meaning that he was connected to, as well, that Jupiter in Sagittarius energy
that we saw building, right? That crescendo of energy. This his sun in Sagittarius is
going to be amplified by Jupiter. And Sagittarius is the opposite of Gemini. And we had that Neptune Pluto Gemini
signature. So, he's also directly locked in, too. So, to me, I think that he fits
in to this puzzle as well. >> definitely. >> And he has a moon in Scorpio and a Saturn conjunction to his moon in
Scorpio. My note here is he hates women. >> Yeah, he does. Just in the way that we
talked about the moon and Capricorn being really harsh and sort of like having no emotions, the moon in Scorpio
is also it's considered to be in its fall in this placement. It is like a dark energy.
>> Uh yeah, there's shame. There's weird sex stuff. There's weird power stuff. There's weird probably Oedipus things.
Wanting to have sex with your own mother things, you know? Like there's very a very dark and complicated relationship
with women to any of our moon in Scorpio people listening I'm not talking about you I'm talking
about a serial killer perfect set of circumstances also not to mention that there's a meme that lists
the the astrological signs of like all of the most iconic serial killers and they're all mutable signs they're all
Virgos Gemini Sagittarius or Pisces Oh damn because you have to have that sort of like changeability duality yes
of course we also have Aaron who is a Virgo sun so he would also fit that bill as well
it's interesting because like one of the things that I that I remember being like
against him that people were like no it's not him is they were like he's not going to do these brutal eviscerations
and then switch to poisoning his wives like those are two different MO's and it's like maybe he is because he was
done here and also or he looked at those canonical five that's what I was thinking those are sex
workers so he's going to rip them apart and make them not human anymore his wives he treats them horribly but they
get a step up and they get with him they get the more like you know higher class
way of dying and he also gets to watch them die slowly and even more to your point
there are the sex workers who he just totally brutalizes there are the mistresses that he poisons and
brutalizes and then there are his wives that he just physically abuses just there is a hierarchy there is a
hierarchy he is literally treating them how he kills these people which even like lends itself to to the fact that he
went into this with a plan and that's why maybe there really was just supposed to be four and he's methodical in the
way that he planned this whole thing Yeah I think I believe he went in thinking he was going to get four it's
almost like different projects for him Yeah and I think that once I mean where do you go after that last murder Yeah
that's the thing you're not just going to go do that again And there is the sort of there is
the same sort of like precise sort of you know he's dosing them there is this obsession with detail and the
anatomy and the body there's a clinical nature to it He was a barber I think at one point I think he was also a barber
which back then barbers did have anatomical knowledge that was a it's like barber surgeon is what they
were like a barber surgeon >> [laughter] >> like the barber pole that's like the red
pole and white pole the red is because they used to hang bloody rags outside and it looked like that pole so that's a
representation of that Yeah Yeah I think it was like an artery and a vein I think is also what
it is Okay yeah that makes perfect sense Yeah So So I mean maybe maybe I would say that of all of these
suspects the strongest yes and also because we have Aberline Frederick Aberline who is like
the women avenger and he's the one who says I know someone who hates women And I know someone like as someone who
loves women I've decided that he loves women he's but I feel it I feel it right and he like and he's giving money
to the women we don't hear about any other character doing that you have to be a lovely [clears throat] person and
think about the time period back then of like those women were not respected by many people at all and this is a high
enforcement like exactly this is a high standing man in society like helping them you know
Did we just solve that that his last name Why didn't I notice that >> Annie Chapman That's his
anglicized name His real last name is Klosowski >> [laughter] >> Which is pretty close to Kosminski real
close to Kosminski Yeah So could these have just been like could there be a lot of like clerical which
would be so mercury Gemini Virgo coded that also of that moment and that happens all the
time in cases like this especially the ones that we talk about that take forever to get solved nine out of 10
times there is a clerical error That [ __ ] everything up and they figured it out wow that's really fascinating
actually I got to look even further into George Chapman and we got to like Guys we're
about to do eight more pretty sure When he died he had no remorse he had no remorse he never was like he didn't say
any last words he didn't say any last words and also think of that he didn't say any
last words and we have storytelling and words as like a piece here so the only thing I mean there's a lot of things
that would weaken this case but one of them is that I do feel like in those murders
in 1888 in those five like there was just such a desire to be caught I can't shake that feeling that whoever which
would make me feel like whoever it was could have just like off themselves right after you know and the reason we
don't know who it is yeah is is just somebody who just like couldn't deal with with the insanity
that they were going through which obviously they had to be Because why did it stop you could say it
stopped because it switched yeah cuz then he went to poisoning right they could have
Just try a little bit of everything see what his favorite is poisons it's like like I said little
projects little projects wow might be George Chapman guys I mean I think it could be
That was fascinating you're so good you are so good my astrology idol I'm sitting here like I got to get this good
>> [laughter] >> Wild >> Well I mean this is it's a real treat this to solve a 150 year old murder
on on this beautiful couch with these beautiful >> [laughter] >> people That's what we're doing here today That
was so cool that was insane thank you so much for that I think we just solved it
now I need to look into George Chapman and I need to make it we got to make a real case Yeah Yeah we got to get on the
Australian wire so we got to get with our clickbait Yeah Forget the shawl look at the charts The
shawl doesn't exist [laughter] What are you talking about >> runner I'm pretty sure stop
>> [laughter] >> Well weirdos we have more stuff upcoming with Elisa we're actually about to
record something entirely different but it's going to be a little while before that comes out so keep your eyes peeled
So before we let you go is there anything you want to plug I would love for you all to listen to my podcast
it's called horoscope weekly episodes come out every Monday and every Wednesday our Monday episodes are
horoscopes for every single sign and they also talk about the astrology weather of the week ahead and there's a
theme of the week that we work with and then the Wednesday episodes are where we
learn astrology we talk about how astrology impacts our lives we go into things like moon signs and the houses
and Saturn and you know you can you can do all of this you can solve cases too and that's the plug listen to horoscope
weekly and solve murders >> [laughter] >> Honeys we leave you with that So we hope you keep listening
>> And we hope you keep It weird But not so weird that you're [music] Jack the Ripper Yeah not that weird
>> [laughter] >> Don't be that weird >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
[music] [music] [music]

Today we are joined by our friend Aliza Kelly, host of Horoscope Weekly: Astrology with Aliza Kelly, to take a cosmic deep dive into one of history’s most chilling mysteries: The Whitechapel Murders.

We explore what the stars might reveal about the shadowy figure who terrorized Victorian London. Could astrology shed light on the motive of the crimes? The psychology of the killer? Or even help narrow down which of the many suspects might have fit the Ripper’s celestial profile?

From the eerie fog of Whitechapel to the astrological markers seen repeated in the charts of key figures in this prolific case, this episode blends true crime and the metaphysical in a way only Morbid and Aliza can.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from https://www.purple-planet.com Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

Astrology reveals connections between Jack the Ripper's victims and suspects, challenging recent DNA claims about the case's resolution.

Key points

Jack the Ripper DNA Debate. Elena passionately argues against the recent claims that DNA has solved the Ripper case.
Polly's Struggles. Polly's life was a constant battle to pick herself back up.
Astrological Significance. The rare conjunction of Neptune and Pluto during this time is unprecedented.
Dark Annie's Life. Annie Chapman, known as Dark Annie, struggled with her circumstances leading to her tragic end.
A Bold Woman's Last Moments. Elizabeth Stride's defiance in the face of danger.
The Intricacies of Murder. The discussion reveals the meticulous nature of the killer's actions, highlighting the gruesome details of the murders.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Eat your hat, New York Times.

Elena humorously challenges a major publication's claims about the Ripper case.

9:38WatchNov 20, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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