Jack the Ripper | Part 3 | Episode 346 | Morbid: A True Crime Podcast | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is morbid [Music] yeah we are on we are on part three of
the Jack the Ripper series and I'm questioning your psyche at this point yeah this has been a this has been the
longest research I've done really because I started much earlier than I normally do with research yeah because I
knew it was going to be a very daunting very intricate kind of thing uh but I feel like I have been in White Chapel in
the 1800s for literally like months at this point you essentially have Elena has um a whole casual 40 pages between
Parts one and three yeah and I'm nowhere near done and so yeah like yeah I'm only
on the double event here I'm not even through I've not even through all of the cases here you got like more like Drew
is a Capricorn but I'm like no you're not because like you are just done oh you're not you are just like the epitome
of a cap like every part of Capricorn energy like you have all of it yeah I really uh I really like I lean into my
sign really hard I don't even mean to it it really is who I am it's that that [ __ ] that solar system that was
happening when the the whatever configuration it was in when I was born it was real powerful in that moment
because I got every ounce of it was intense well you also have Virgo in your chart which I think only makes you a
more important person when it comes to work so yeah listen to me look at you I know a couple signs you're like I know
some stuff about astrology I drink things and I know things there you go oh I miss Game of Thrones speaking of I
miss Game of Thrones imagine if they redid the last season imagine imagine if they just like said oops we were kidding
imagine if they made it good at the end that'd be fun that'd be awesome speaking
of good shows though like actually good shows I just started and I realized I'm very behind the curve because what I
didn't realize was that this show that I'm about to talk about peaky blinders in case you were wondering it came out
in like 2013. yeah I was still in any school still happening yeah they just like really draw out those Seasons I
didn't realize that until recently either that's funny that you brought that up I had no idea and I know I've
been wanting to watch it since 2013 but it's been one of those that I'm like yeah I'll watch that and then I just
haven't but last night we were like oh all of our shows are kind of like floating just floating or like they're
week to week and we've already like you know because we we only have a precious few moments to watch shows at night when
the kids are asleep so we're like What do we do let's make a choice pick right and last night John was like should we
start another one and I was like peaky blinders let's do it there you go and we did it and I realized that not only is
this show [ __ ] awesome and I'm so excited to be completely entrenched in it but two it takes place around the
same time period of this in the same place yeah like only like 30 or 40 years after yeah it's not that far off and
it's like definitely got the vibe and I was watching it last night being like I cannot escape this I am just not helping
myself at all like no escapism for me oh I am like an escape artist when it comes
to like walking away from I have to like in order to sleep in like function I have to it wasn't great on my on my uh
on your my dreams last night wasn't great because it was very like intertwined with like the Catherine
Meadows one that I'm going to talk about today and it was a lot I can't research
at night anymore yeah it's hard like for that reason and I you know me I'm like a
very like spiritual like spiritual lady so if I get weird dreams that throws me off for like my whole day and then you
know I'll just like start crying in the middle of the day for no reason I will say that um if you have no other reason
to watch it watch it for Killian Murphy okay uh that's what I was in it for there you go the time period of course
and Killian Murphy we're like big selling points to me of course and they they gave they gave me everything I
needed I've been like a Killian Murphy had since like 28 Days Later which I realized came out when Ash was like five
in that yeah took me for a ride which means that you I think I was like six so you were 16. so 16 year old Elena was
standing Philly and Murphy that would like because now I like obviously we're 10 years apart always like that's how
the time works that is how time works it's funny because I don't feel that far away from you in age anymore so hearing
that like you were 16 when I was six I'm like that doesn't line up no and when you get older the time difference
doesn't it's not that big yeah like how like like yeah older dudes and older ladies can date younger dudes and ladies
exactly later on in life and it's not so weird but yeah it's just like the time difference just doesn't make as much of
a difference because you're not as like in such a different form of your life anymore exactly we're both in like very
I mean even still we're not very different but like very similar faces exactly and that's our life and that is
our life everyone so go watch peaky blinders if you haven't if you have which I know a lot of you have because I
tweeted about it like the uh when I was watching it and everybody was like oh my
God I love that show people are obsessed I'm here I'm ready to talk to you about
it and I'm excited to be here so I just started Desperate Housewives so we're in
different places I mean I don't even I think it I think Desperate Housewives came out when I was
probably like five probably so it's funny to watch now it's also like sometimes you're like oh you could say
that back then yeah there's always that but that show is good I never watched that it's original I don't think you
would like it yeah never really was something I wanted to watch but I'm glad you are thanks I'm glad you're watching
peaky blinders all right thank you that's something I do want to eventually watch I'm just not there yet there you
go yeah and that's our TV schedule that's our TV sketch guys so I'm excited to watch peaky blinders with you guys
hopefully somebody else I think a couple people are like I'm gonna start it too now and I was like hell yeah let's all
started together be in this together let's go for it uh it's basically just gonna get me until stranger things too
like it's one of those like I needed a good show that was gonna get me back to the next stranger thing because that is
gonna take like years to come out right I don't know I don't know how it usually
works though that is but we'll see it's like I need it now I'm in a place of freaking
I just feel alone in the world without and I feel like yeah you're not alone with you for Euphoria I know that
because a lot of people watch that oh no I mean I feel alone in the world it's not here like yeah we're all alone I was
gonna say you're suffering together we are so immensely so there you go all right
uh this is uh uh we're gonna get we're gonna get into it today she says yeah I yep I do because these this is
gonna get rougher and rougher from here on out it's gonna get like so bad yeah so bad it's been really bad it has
it's getting so bad I mean one of these is one of the most horrific scenes I've ever read about I'm glad that I'm not
going into this blindly I can't imagine going into the case having no idea exactly yeah even even so
um I think when you hear details you're gonna be like oh oh that's already happened oh for sure and I can see that
coming up yeah next this is a rough one and um the next one we'll talk about in part four is of course the the very
Infamous Mary Jane Kelly scene which I think a lot of people have seen that photograph
I forgot that that photograph existed until all of a sudden I was like oh that is a real thing and that's a real person
and that's the real thing that happened tucked into like the back of your head and then you remember yeah so we'll be
talking about um Mary Jane Kelly in part four but today we're going to be talking about the
double event which is when he killed twice in one night very close to each other we're gonna talk about it I have a
lot of theories I have a lot of questions I have a lot of like hmm so let's get into it let's do it shall we
we shall so we just the last time we when we left you we were talking about how uh John or Jack Pfizer leather apron
he had been brought in but he had been cleared had like multiple Alibis and he said I didn't come forward when when my
name was first brought up I went on the run because I thought people were going to hang me without even wondering
whether I actually did it or not because the media had like put it out way too soon which Fair because it probably
would have happened because there were several times when people thought that police were bringing in a suspect of
Jack which at this point he's just called The White Chapel murderer or the mutilation series they were calling it
he isn't even Jack yet he hasn't even named himself yet well I haven't even got there oh know we haven't even gotten
to the letters because they haven't come yet this part or next part it's going to
be next part okay uh but that's when we're going to talk about the letters him naming himself like the whether we
think it's a hoax or not those letters the different suspects the different theories the different ins and outs and
and also Mary Jane Kelly uh but for this one leather apron's been cleared but the
last victim was Annie Chapman and White Chapel has lost their Collective [ __ ] after this I mean it was Annie Chapman's
murder was horrifying there are still some discrepancies as to her time of death though that were kind of
complicating the investigation because at this point they're just trying to get anything they can because they know that
see these are connected right they don't know when the next one's gonna hit they're trying to stop it before it hits
and they don't have a lot to work with so Dr Phillips Dr Bagster Phillips our guy our guy uh he had stated that when
he saw Annie Chapman 6 30 a.m he believed that she had been dead for about two hours okay
but if we put that next to the witness accounts that morning it doesn't really make sense so someone must have been off
um that so there was a man named John Richardson who lived at 29 hambury street where the murder occurred and the
body was discovered outside in that yard and he said he came out into the yard at
4 45 a.m and he did not see a body now if you walked out into that yard she was right there you weren't gonna definitely
see her Albert cadosh heard someone yell no we talked about him at 5 25 a.m and then at 5 28 a.m he said he heard
someone fall against the fence between his yard at 27 Hanbury Street and 29 Hanbury but then we have Mrs Elizabeth
Long's witness account she was the first one that I talked about in the last episode that she saw Annie Chapman with
a man who quote looked like a foreigner in a deer stalker hat we were like what does that mean I'm like what exactly
does that mean Elizabeth uh but that was at 5 30 a.m huh so remember Albert kadosh said at 5 25 he heard no right he
heard someone fall at 5 28 and now Elizabeth Long sang at 5 30 30 two minutes later she sees Annie Chapman
just talking to this guy that floor even going into the yard that is the problem
with eyewitness accounts exactly so Dr Phillips estimate of death is already shot to ship if he came at 6 30 and said
she was already dead two hours ago but an hour ago she was talking to someone or was she so that doesn't make any
sense and also now we have to question how Mrs long could have seen her at all like have she really seen her because
who's off here is it Albert kadosh which I I'm thinking Albert might be the one that's off I think Elizabeth long did
see her oh you think and I think she saw her at that time because she did mention
something about hearing the clock chime okay again she could be off she couldn't
walk off because Albert may have just been off by 15 minutes because that's not that crazy to think about that like
he was like oh it was five you know 20 whatever when I heard it maybe he heard the clock chime too and he got the wrong
like amount of Chimes maybe he looked at something and thought it was this time I
feel like he's a little more off than Elizabeth alone I could see that because Elizabeth long was like very adamant
right the clock chimed 5 30 I heard it I looked at her I know that's her she was
talking to this guy and it's a little different too because she's probably like out and about going somewhere and
we can assume maybe she had to be there at a certain time exactly whereas he's coming home and just kind of like is at
home yeah he doesn't have I don't think he had anything that he was like really thinking about doing so she was on her
way to the markets like the spitalfield market so she actually had somewhere that she had to be so I think time was
more of like at the essence to her now of course nailing time of death is hard even today so there are a lot of factors
and back then it was just like way jankier they just like threw a dart on a dartboard of times they were like sure
this works but Dr Phillips did acknowledge that the massive blood loss paired with the cold air that morning
she was killed definitely could have [ __ ] up his estimate too so he wasn't sitting there saying like two hours for
sure he was just saying that I think he was like within two hours I think and he
was saying all of those elements could have [ __ ] up my estimate I am not holding myself to it so not even he was
holding himself to it okay but still it didn't really help with the investigation that much and besides
besides all this there was this weird Obsession for a bit where police were assuming this killer was an escaped
inmate from an asylum I could see why they would think that because of the brutality but why else
see and that's the thing so it's weird to me it's wild to me actually that they assumed that at any point that this
person was insane because the care and the meticulousness with which these murders were carried out does not ring
as someone in the throes of insanity or someone who is not a sane clinically person could do it rings to me very evil
and very focused uh and like know which what they're doing it doesn't calculate it yeah it doesn't feel like somebody
escaped from an asylum this had the Metropolitan Police Force concentrating for a long period of time
on escaped or recently released Asylum patients and to me it feels like a massive waste of time I think that was
like real dumb also just really using people like that escape goats oh yeah that was like it was a very low hanging
fruit yeah and they went like really hard at it for a while and I was like guys you gotta stop yeah it's not there
right it's not there this is like a way this is not a careless person so then this crazy Theory popped up and
I just had to talk about it because I was like what this is called the American doctor
Theory now this Theory came about when the coroner which this coroner in particular that I'm going to talk about
when Baxter was not a medical doctor so he was not Dr Wen Baxter he was a voted in coroner he mentioned during Annie
Chapman's inquest on September 26 1888 that he believed and I quote it was someone who had considerable anatomical
knowledge and skill there were no meaningless cuts the organ has been taken away by one who knew where to find
it what difficulties he would have could have to contend against and how he should use his knife so as to abstract
the organ without injury to it no unskilled person could know where to find it or have recognized it when it
was found which I agree but he Then followed this up by saying he knew and believed that there was a
market for these types of organs the black market and he relayed a story that recently the sub-curator recently at
that point uh the sub-curator of the pathological Museum told him that a few months earlier an American had called
him up on the phone and asked him if he could buy some specimens because he said
he was writing a paper that was about to be published and he was going to be sending he wanted to like send specimens
to some of these places the curator was like no we can't do that we're not in that business and this American who's
like they're claiming was a doctor medical student said he would pay a ton of money for them and he had already
made this request to another institution apparently he said now when Baxter then
suggested on the record that maybe someone had heard about this random American who was allegedly requesting to
buy specimens from the pathological museum for a pretty penny at that in that this person who heard this took it
upon themselves to procure some of those specimens to sell to him because heard you can make a lot of money I'm gonna
get some of these okay I'm sorry no my good sir that does not no no no no no I was like okay nope and he said this
on the record which of course is gonna get everybody like going crazy this doesn't make any sense
oh no no in so no no no no in response to this the Lancet which was a weekly medical journal published um that they
like published details of the cases but they were the only ones who would publish details because they were a
medical journal uh they published a warning and they were very dissatisfied with Baxter's Theory they said quote in
our opinion a grave error in judgment was made by the coroner's informant in this respect the public mind which also
can I just say this is so relevant to now like when you read this you're like wow we haven't changed yeah the public
mind ever too ready to cast much uh excuse me ever too ready to cast mud at legitimate research
hmm will heartily fail to be excited to a pitch of animosity against anatomists and curators which may take a long while
to subside yeah it's still we're still working on it still doing that and what is equally deplorable the Revelation
thus made by the coroner which so dramatically startled the public last Wednesday evening May probably lead to a
diversion from the real track of the murderer and thus defeat rather than serve the ends of Justice we believe the
story to be highly improbable although it may have a small basis of fact which will require the exercise of much common
sense to separate from The Sensational fiction that surrounds it so essentially it was a both [ __ ] theory he
repeated this story he had no proof of this there was no like it was ridiculous he just wanted to say something it just
didn't make sense to me nothing about these we talk about how you know these things were taken out meticulously and
very carefully sure but that's a lot of [ __ ] work to go through through to get when you could technically if you're
really just looking for organs to harvest it's like find somebody who's like at that point people were like
dying on the streets it's like guys you're that doesn't make sense they're doing he's doing it too quickly and in
two obvious places and leaving them in the mid like in the middle of the street why would he be doing that wouldn't he
take them back somewhere right move them out of the way to not get caught well they need to keep doing this if you
wanted to make more money would he not just take all of the organs or like as many as he can that's the thing it's
like I don't know I don't know about this that doesn't end here it makes no sense to me he didn't take an organ from
everybody he didn't not from everybody still that that also doesn't make sense it doesn't as soon as they heard that a
uterus was taken it was like this must be for the black market and it's like no I don't think so yeah also I don't know
how like so he takes this uterus what's he doing with it right you can't just throw it like on ice and be like well
maybe someone will buy this like they can't use that what do you think they're using that for like it doesn't make
anything do you think that the real murderer took the uterus and like kept it that's what nobody understands do you
think nobody knows it could have been a trophy for him I think it seems like a lot of Easter trophies and do you think
like you know how like people will buy all of these do you think he kept it in like an oddity like a jar formalin or
something right yeah I mean it's it's a very high possibility or that he just tossed it somewhere and like just never
had to take it just took it to take it to [ __ ] with people who really knows that's the worst part of this now after
Annie Chapman there was a three-week lull so people started to get lulls into a sense of false security that was until
September 29th 1888. at 1am Lewis dim Schultz I believe it's DM Schultz I think actually Lewis diem
Schultz was coming back from work and he was taking a horse and carriage he was the steward of the international working
men's educational Club I think I mentioned it in part one at some point on the other side of the duck Fields
yard court around 40 Berner Street so the duckfield's yard was like this big Courtyard that there was all kinds
of things around it and one of these was that that club um he was cutting through duckfield's
yard and his horse wouldn't walk anymore and appeared scared it was like pulling
to one side clearly trying to avoid something and it was Pitch Black there wasn't one light in this car Courtyard
so it is literally the blackest black his horse isn't walking anymore and he's like what the [ __ ] is this animals know
so he lights a match and he and he sees a bundle in front of him on the ground he thought it was just like a tarp that
was rolled up so I think what it said was he took like um the whip that he had was for the horse because the worst and
he just like poked it but was like uh I don't really know what this is yeah but he jumps down he sees a woman lying on
the ground next to the wall of the club but he can barely see so he went into the club to grab a candle and two other
men came out with him to go look back at who was on the ground when they all lit
matches to see they lifted her shoulders and head and she was completely limp when they held the lights to her they
found that this woman had her throat violently slashed there was blood all over the ground and pavement beneath her
they estimated about two quarts wow had flowed towards the door of the club beneath her hair was completely matted
with blood and mud she was holding a packet of breath fresheners in one hand and her I guess her hand was like still
a little clenched around it there was actually a myth that she was holding grapes in her right hand but that's not
true no grapes were found on oh I remember that for some reason I remember that piece yeah and there's a reason for
that because I think people there's a there's a sighting where like she was eating grapes okay so I think that
became something but that is a no report it's a no Coroner's report I remember when I wrote my silly paper for high
school like saying something about or like reading something about this yes because and you probably would have
written it because it's it yeah stated in a lot of sources as like this is in the report it's not oh man it is not in
the report It's So Random I know it's really frustrating when that happens because you're like what the [ __ ] yeah
and actually before I even go any further let me tell you because I found a couple of other books for you guys to
read how many books do you have at this point I am on seven okay so the newest one I found was uh Jack the Ripper
Scotland Yard investigates by Stuart P Evans and Donald rumbolow Donald rumbolow also did the complete Jack the
Ripper which is another book that I recommend uh the other one that I found was Jack the Ripper the definitive case
book by Richard Whittington Egan that one's really good because it kind of doesn't give you a blow by blow of the
case it goes into the different theories and the different like myths and the different things it kind of gives you a
more like um abstract a look at the case which is really interesting and fun so I
definitely recommend those and um I've been linking the other ones like the hidden lives of Jack the Ripper's
victims by Robert Hume the Ripper code by Thomas tuffel Jack the Ripper in the case for Scotland Yard suspect by Robert
house and um the five by uh Hallie Ruben hold they're all really good they're all
tell like they all have different pieces of the puzzle so I highly recommend you
go read all of them because they're amazing and again I will link all of these summer reading brought to you by
Elena Summer Reading uh so no grapes no grapes she was wearing a long black coat
with red and white flowers pinned to it um trimmed the whole thing was trimmed with fur and um she was wearing a black
skirt a black bonnet and a like checkered neck scarf that was pulled very tightly around her neck but they
said that they thought she pulled it very tightly and then maybe it got slightly tightened when you know she was
attacked but they didn't think it was like he tied something around her neck like he didn't choke her with it or
anything now they got a police officer immediately of course and soon there was a crowd gathered around her our boy Dr
Bagster Phillips was at it again he declared that she was still warm and had likely just been killed now everyone in
the club and everyone who was outside from the club got searched they got interviewed their homes were searched
they were probably not psyched about that but like you're in the wrong place at the wrong time my dudes I don't know
what to tell you no one was found to have bloods on blood on their hands or their clothing and nothing was found out
of the ordinance which is like great but also just a [ __ ] bummer because you're like oh I know you're like he
wasn't just someone running back into the club can you imagine if it was just one of them he just walked back into the
club crazy now on October 1st 1888 she was identified as Elizabeth stride who sometimes went by Annie Fitzgerald I
know that is a totally different name that is just another one that you went by an alias is an alias baby she was
known around the area to be constantly arrested for being drunk and disorderly as of late she's climbing yeah you know
Elizabeth had many nicknames aside from Annie Fitzgerald she was known as long Liz long Liz likely now this is
interesting because I didn't realize that this was a thing but I guess like people with the last name stride that
was like a running joke at the time that they call them like long whatever because you're stressed right yeah yeah
which I'm like wow how funny hilarious uh but other people because it was like a whole thing where people were
like is it that or is it because she had like a long face was she and she wasn't
that tall so it doesn't make sense maybe that was why though yeah it could have been like a funny like long lose over
here right uh but she was also known as mother gum because she always had breath
mints no because when she laughed which was often because she was known to be very jovial and very sweet she showcased
um kind of a gummy Mouse because she was missing several teeth including such dicks I know people were real dicks uh
she was missing her two front teeths so you know people are dicks people have always been dicks it's just trolls be
trolling but it seems to me like a lot of these women even when people were like dicks they just kind of like took
it and stride and we're just like yeah [ __ ] off and would just like go about their business the UK yeah like they
they water off a duck's back yeah like they just they know how to joke yeah and they know how to let jokes roll because
they're cheeky they are they're cheeky and we [ __ ] love that's so sensitive like we love them some people can take
in they know how to do it yeah they really do yes um my stepmom is like British and her
mom was like actually like lived in Britain yeah her name was Cleo and she was the coolest [ __ ] lady and she
would just like read you but like in the funniest way yeah like and you know that
it's like it was silly yeah you can you can take it because it's funny all in good fun and it's all in good fun
everybody just roasts each other it's wonderful so like we we see you we love you uh so who was Elizabeth who was
Mother gum who is is Annie Fitzgerald who were they oh me so we're talking about Elizabeth stride here she was
originally named Elizabeth Gustav's daughter she was born November 27 1843 in store I might say lots of these
things wrong because it is in Sweden uh stora tumla head in Sweden I think that she might be a Capricorn get it girl let
me double check she was one of four kids with an older sister Anna Christina and
two brothers Carl Bernhard and svant um her father was Gustav Erickson which is why her last name was goofstuff
daughter makes sense um were you ragittarius there you go you were close yeah her mother was beta Carl's daughter
and they lived on a farm all everyone was expected to work on this Farm kids included from a very early age they grew
potatoes other vegetables you know it was a pretty it was like a nice little farm but yeah not very lucrative not
very easy work so it was tough growing up they literally kept the kids home from
school to work on the farm like they were expected to just work on the farm oh man and in that time it just that was
the way it was just that important to make sure that they were making money from the
farm because that was all they had yeah so especially especially the girls they were definitely not considered at
that time worth going to school if they could work at home it was just the way it was now when she was 17 she took off
to start her own life in the city of Gothenburg she was known as a very kind and very respectable girl who didn't get
into any trouble she was also known to always have her Bible with her because that is one thing growing up they went
to church they could I think the what I read in the hidden lives of Jack the Ripper's victims was that like the only
thing she really didn't know how to read was her Bible like that was it now um people really liked her and they
really got along with her she settled in pretty well and by February of that year
she had gotten work as a domestic servant for Lars Frederick olafson and his wife it was a super nice environment
she took care of their kids she did work around the house she worked for them for
three years everything was great no complaints at all then out of nowhere with no notice and no hint of
displeasure she just walked out something had to have happened and that's why I'm like what happened there
yeah what's the T something happened there of course now she had to go find somewhere to stay because she no longer
had a nice nice roof over her head and she walked out of a nice home so it's like what happened there we're missing a
piece of that puzzle and I don't I don't know if we'll ever get it and it's interesting too that because it's like
you know your mind goes to like certain places but she had been there for three years and then all of a sudden something
like did something hit come to a head or right what happened here I'm I would I would like to know but I don't know if
we'll ever find out now uh she ended up getting a room in on like a street that was in not a great area of course
because that's really all she could afford at the time they were yeah yeah August 1864 her mother at only 54 years
old died of a respiratory illness could have been TB could have been anything we
don't know but she was young and she so she's devastated of course she took to the area she was Finding
herself living in and she took to the streets as a sex worker because she had no other options and often that is what
we find in these situations they had no other option and I wonder if she like had lost some Faith you know for sure a
lot of them were hopeless at the time that they were killed and I had been hopeless for a long time unfortunately
this was like a really sad time that was not a lot of Hope and there was not a lot of like positive stuff to look at
now this is interesting again from the hidden lives of Jack the Ripper's victims I found out that she was
registered in the Gothenburg police files as a quote prostitute interestingly in Sweden this
registration wasn't like they registered her to like arrest her this she registered as one that meant she was
legally allowed to be a sex worker and would not be arrested for it in the 1800s in Sweden yeah the Swedish
government figured it was better to just control and regulate what was going on imagine that now it wasn't all it wasn't
great I will say that it sounds great like it sounds like oh wow Progressive but like it I don't know uh they
basically they were just trying to stop because at the time the spread of disease was very random and especially
like in the spread of illnesses like sexually transmitted illnesses so they figured instead of criminalize it
they were just going to try to keep it under control so they registered sex workers and
allowed them to work but just wanted to be made aware of any health concerns which sounds fine each worker was
described in the register and other information was put in their file aside from like diseases or illnesses other
health information Elizabeth was 21 at the time she was labeled as female prostitute number 97. which like wow and
described as being slight build blue eyes brown hair a straight nose and other random information okay this
sounds again like I said very Progressive way to look at sex work but it wasn't especially for like 18
whatever 1860s um but it wasn't just as simple as that she was also not allowed to be outside
in public until after 11 pm oh so you with with that like little dollop of progressiveness you're like wait what
what was that what like yeah like at all yeah like she couldn't be like she could
not work out in public until after 11 p.m all right now she had to also go twice a week to the doctor to be
examined and had to like make sure that nothing was happening which like that's the good part of it yeah exactly they're
seeing her and others there's beneficial things here but it's like a little too controlling now at one point when she
was young she gave birth to a stillborn child from an unknown father this was devastating for her obviously and she
had just lost her mother I mean I think she was only 21 years old at the time when that happened but she went back to
the street life and was in and out of the hospital with sexually transmitted illnesses several times over the next
few months and maybe a couple of years now in November 1865 she ended up being taken off the register by the police and
this would really only happen if they like moved died so if something big happened now this one was for a positive
thing it was she got another job as a domestic servant for Carl Wenzel uh Wisner and his young wife Maria
so she only stayed there for a few months though she ended up leaving when Maria informed her that she was pregnant
I don't know if it was because she didn't want to take care of a baby she just wanted to be a domestic servant
just lost she just lost a baby maybe she just wasn't ready um but at this point she did find out that
she got a little money from her Dead Mother's estate okay so this was her chance she was like I'm gonna get far
away from this shittiness in Sweden and I'm going to London oh no because everyone The Grass Is
Always Greener oh yeah no she worked briefly in the West End in London which we discussed at one point was like kind
of the upper class Elite she liked it like she was Finding work as a domestic servant she liked it but I think um I
don't know if I mentioned it in the Mary uh the Polly Nichols one but Paulie Nichols was struggling with the fact
that when she was a domestic servant they paid you three months out so for the first three months you didn't get
paid and then you got paid the back three months okay so if you could stick it out for those three months cool
you're getting a big check but most of these people are taking this job with no money to their name they can't afford
that right so it's like kind of this terrible cycle of like people can't deal with the three months of no pay right
like what are you supposed to do and that was just how it was there like that's just that was like standard that
like you didn't get paid for the first I don't know if it was like your probationary period maybe oh probably
and like that like I'm 90-day probationary that makes perfect sense I think that's kind of how it went but
like you don't get paid and that's tougher back then especially when like nothing like these people are coming in
there with not anything to rub together but they could live in the house and they could live in the house and I think
they could eat but it was like still and a lot of them were very reliant on alcohol at the time because they're
struggling yeah I think that has a lot to do with it yeah no and I think a lot of them just want to be able to like
have you know people want their own money you know like you don't want to have to rely on someone for three months
so a lot of people dealt with it but some people couldn't and she was struggling with this like this three
month period um because that's not how it was done in Sweden and she didn't know that this is
how it was going to be oh so Elizabeth split from this like domestic servants job in the West End found her way to a
known Swedish Parish in the area because she figured I could meet some people that I can go to their Church yeah it'll
feel like home but without all the stresses right right so it worked for her for a while and she was staying in
lodging houses and trying to make her way she had gotten herself a small job making and cleaning bed linens for the
lodging house which a lot of these women did as well they would sometimes be able
to like clean the floors clean the kitchen cook at the lodging houses change the beds you know do the laundry
and them doing that was like okay you get your free night stay like you worked it was like a workhouse without being a
workhouse so she got herself that small job it seemed to be working out a little
bit this is when she became known as long Liz right that's when people started calling her that
um it's again I guess it was a common nickname for people with that surname but like what it's so weird like all
right now around this time is when she like it was right before she was being called long Liz that she met John Thomas
stride he was a carpenter from the Isle of shepi Kent he was said to be a short unattractive man who was abrasive and
loud so it's like okay the short abrasive and Loud all right I guess so I love the
word abrasive abrasive is a great word to describe a lot of people because you feel it yeah abrasive is like a feeling
you know what I mean it really is it's a it's abrasive like I feel like I know who he is yeah like I know exactly who
this short unattractive abrasive myth is yeah but you know Liz was taken I suppose she was taken with this short
unattractive man who was abrasive and Loud okay now they married March 7th 1869 they moved into the East End into a
lodging house and together so hot not so hot but you know and they opened up a coffee shop together because he was
already I think yeah right see we're getting there and he was already kind of like in that business he he wanted to
open up his own coffee place and this was an East India Dock Road in Poplar I would love to open up a coffee place
yeah this sounds like it would be awesome it wasn't um it wasn't working out and they
actually moved a couple of times the coffee shop location because like one would fail and they just moved to
another one they just weren't getting enough customers yeah it just wasn't happening and I don't think they were
like super on it when it came to the business stuff but the the third one that they opened was at 178 Poplar High
Street next to the docks they were scraping by at this point John was a carpenter so during the day he was
working and Elizabeth was uh managing the shop but she was taking more time at pubs and just drinking than managing the
shop because she was like I don't feel like sitting here again vibing she's got places to go she's on the move a lot of
these women by the way guys she's a sag so Sagittarius you know we like to be all around and all over the place
because I'm massaged Rising oh I was like you're a Gemini I am but they say that the older you get the more you
start to align with your Rising oh look at that and I I do feel that way actually because well there you go yeah
a lot of these women that became victims of Jack the Ripper it seemed like they were just not they
could have gone a lot of places if life had given them any card to work with I think that's a perfect way of putting it
because I feel like they all were not content to sit and just rot they wanted more and they wanted to go go but they
just life was just kicking them kicking them kicking them every single time a way to
get there yeah it just kind of was like banging their heads against a brick wall
and I feel the more you read about them the more you're like damn I'm sorry yeah
like [ __ ] like it's just like a [ __ ] was not great um but again she was this is alcohol
tends to play a very heavy role in all these people's lives I think just because escapism and just to get and to
get away from the terrible terribleness that was surrounding them um but again she didn't really want to
sit and manage the shop she was known around all the pubs and around the locals to be fun sweet she was really
funny uh just like she was known back in Sweden she was the same girl people at the blackanese pub um black and his head
Pub excuse me were the ones to name her mother gum and that was because she laughed a lot yeah and when she would
laugh they were like mother gum like man but I think they didn't get it I think it was just like she probably thought it
was like whatever like get [ __ ] yeah in 1874 the coffee coffee shop was actually almost just closed down but
instead it changed hands so they were able to give it over to someone else they were kind of running it into the
ground so another businessman just took over I know because that actually when you said it was near the docks I was
like oh great looking you would think yeah but I think they were just kind of running it needed somebody there yeah be
a good location they just like washed their hands of it yeah now March 21st 1877 there was a police report where she
was seen in the Thames magistrates Court in Stepney and then ordered to enter popular workhouse
that usually means you got in trouble and that was your punishment often to avoid jail people would take on hard
labor at workhouses to pay their debts to society so jail without going to jail yeah but we don't
know what she did yeah we don't know exactly what she did there I'm assuming as most of the time there
was probably some kind of like disorderly intoxication and that kind of thing because they were always getting
in trouble for that because like people just like need to chill out yeah just like calm down whatever just let her
live just like so again she's vibing she's just so in some it was September 3rd 1878 that she got herself into a
scam that was like kind of reprehensible to be quite honest for not a great look for
her yeah not a great moment in her life that kind of carries out okay now a steamer Ship by the name of Princess
Alice on this day collided with another ship a ship named by well Castle on the Thames river and it sank oh somewhere
between 600 and 700 people died in this tragedy it was a huge tragedy there was a collection put together where people
could donate to the families who had lost loved ones in the ship she pretended to be a survivor of the
accident and that her husband and two of her what she said were nine children were killed in the accident
and she claimed she had seven other kids to take care of now oh she even claimed
that those two front teeth that she didn't have were kicked out by another passenger who was desperately trying to
save themselves in the accident okay and she said she managed to survive by climbing the ship's Mass to safety
what about the seven kids though how'd they get out that's the thing you never see those seven kids she did not have
seven kids like where are your kids at um it didn't work because people were like where are those seven kids and she
was like about that and they were like yeah you don't have that like that's and they were like you are not listed on the
Manifest anywhere neither is anyone with that many kids and no one lost a husband
and two children and or people did but like no one by the name of you right right so it didn't make sense okie dokie
she did unfortunately use this story over and over and over and she like you know it's she's I think she's
desperate I was gonna say it's reprehensible but it's also completely born out of desperation and you know
like if we were in that position we don't know what we would yeah I mean like Eat to Live to survive bad to Pro
to play off a tragedy like that absolutely it's bad and I'm not gonna sit here and give her any credit on that
no at all it's like and again nobody's perfect no victim is perfect no they don't have to be perfect no matter what
they didn't deserve what they got it doesn't just because you're not perfect and you did some [ __ ] in your life
doesn't mean in any way you deserve to end where you ended nobody's perfect you live and you learn it po but he's
nerfect yep you know we're in different places entirely there you go I love you so much
foreign but it's true though it's true it's one I will say at least she wasn't like
working like as a domestic servant and like making that money and then being like hey by the way like I died in a
ship crash and I didn't die but everybody else did money like she didn't have anything no and it's again it's a
shitty thing it was a bad use of her time it was a bad right decision she made a lot of these women made some bad
decisions because when the system is working against you that's when you make bad decisions exactly and you don't even
need to justify all of them everyone makes bad decisions and sometimes they're unjustified oh girl we could do
a whole last podcast about the bad decisions in my life that I've made like we've all been there everybody's been
there so it's like we don't need to sit here and be like but you know it's like no she made a shitty choice and she had
to live with it but again by no means does it give anybody any justification to harm her that's not like a you know
so it's like we don't have to pretend they were perfect people that just like didn't do anything bad in their lives
everybody's shitty right in some way and it's like yeah like people will come like right into us and they're like
listen when you cover me on the podcast like if you ever do something don't say that I lit up a room I said I didn't
nobody still say it you probably did but you know what they did a lot of great things they had a lot of a lot of people
who loved them they they wanted to do better and they just couldn't they're in bad circumstances but this is a bad this
is a bad decision that she made and she did use this over and over again and she
used it sometimes she'd say she'd just tell people if they asked like where's your husband oh he died in a in the uh
accident and you know like she'd say like oh I lost these teeth like in that accident or you know my kids died in
that accident like just it was usually to try to like get ahead a little bit Yeah but it never really worked she just
really clung to that story okay but she learned early in life how to sew and tailor and she would sometimes use
those skills to earn money too but it was just never consistent that's the problem back then it just was never
consistent money now she was always known by friends to carry sewing equipment and this was just in case the
opportunity arose that she could use her skills okay she always had buttons Thimbles a needle and some thread on her
she was like really cute she was just ready to jump into action a seamstress so you could you can see that she
Elizabeth was ready to make legitimate money she just needed the opportunity to do it by 1881 she and John stride had
moved into a lodging home at 69 Usher Road in Beau this was very cramped they didn't have it to themselves they had to
share with several of the other families she began drinking very heavily around this time
John on the other hand was very religious in the idea of drinking horrified him oh she left around
Christmas leaving their house and John because they just couldn't it wasn't working he was like getting angry that
she was drinking it became a constant source of fighting well he's abrasive too so yeah and she's probably getting
to break up as well exactly it's not good you're in a cramped place now she became sick around this time and was
admitted to White Chapel workhouse infirmary Aunt Baker's Row for bronchitis and exhaustion now after a
week she was made to go to White Chapel workhouse she struggled that they were like hey
recover from your bronchitis and your exhaustion for one week and then get to work yeah like not even just like start
sewing again like go like tie the [ __ ] ship things together and have your hands bleed all over like you
feeling good okay get in there go go Crush now she was so she went to White Chapel
workhouse she struggled in and out of these kind of situations not really finding work to rely on so like the
other victims she was in these workhouses and lodging homes and Casual Awards constantly just over and over
again um and John would give her money every now and then but then they were still
estranged and he was in bad Health too so now everything's starting to kind of Crash she's not even getting that
because he ends up dying like very shortly after this and meanwhile while they're not
together like a strange she's still claiming that he died in that ship sinking so she moved into a lodging
house at 32 flower and Dean Street which we mentioned in part one is one of the worst areas flower and Dean Street is
that one of those like Infamous like ah I love that flower flowering Street yeah
like can you name it something like that can keep me away from it exactly in 1884
John did end up dying of heart disease by this time she had turned back to the streets and back to sex work to make
money finding herself absolutely desperate and without options she got herself caught a few times then she
would have to work off the demerits and workhouses now this is when I came across
some in one of the sources and I cannot remember which one it was they mentioned
something about like you know had to walk hours a day on a giant treadmill and I was like I'm sorry what I looked
it up that was like a thing they did back then to prisoners they would have them work like a treadmill was the name
for this big [ __ ] contraption that worked on like a mill wheel and it was literally a treadmill that or like
almost like a step treadmill like almost like a master yeah that you just they would make prisoners walk for hours
to make this Mill Run so that they could like make flour and [ __ ] for just to like be like useful the second semester
will get you snatched real quick and it was literally like eight hours a day though no yeah no isn't that why I do
the StairMaster for like 15 minutes and I'm like I literally will never be the same again I look at a StairMaster and I
heave I bet I can't imagine yeah I can't imagine that's horrific it just blew when I saw that I was like whoa I I like
you know what I'll even put a thing in the show no don't blink to it because you guys just need to do your research
it's a wild rabbit hole to go down I was like what is the world you would be like
Skin and Bones yeah I mean you have a dump truck but like exactly now around this time again
people really like Elizabeth I like Elizabeth regardless of some bad choices Elizabeth was a very likable person I
mean the likable people like that I know sometimes do make boundaries yeah everybody does we're humans and you know
what she was someone who would try to help you if she could and she was very jovial very like happy she was very
goofy she was always laughing even when she was sad she just was always someone that like people were like you know what
she was just fun to be around even when she was a like bummed out you just didn't feel it okay so it's like damn
Elizabeth right this is when she started seeing a dock worker by the name of Michael kidney
they stayed at lodging houses together on Dorset Street another really bad street I remember that uh it was it was
along what was called The Wicked quarter mile oh and not Wicked like that's wicked cool kid yeah we're not in Boston
it was wicked uh like Something Wicked This Way Comes now at the lodging house they made friends and had a kind of
community there so like you know now it's becoming like a thing where like we stay at the same lodging houses and like
me and Michael were doing this thing you know sweet she worked in the kitchen sometimes she was a good cook so people
liked her cooking she was like just getting her feel here and at this point I'm like come on I know
you can do it Elizabeth frustrating but she just didn't get the chance would they let I don't you might not know this
off the top of your head but like could a woman work in a restaurant at that point in time like as a chef I think it
was basically like bar made you know it was like I don't think you were gonna be
hired as a chef but I don't know that you wish that she could get hired like to cook for a family yeah that's the
thing like she was decent at it so it's like if with more practice and more just
doing it she I think she could have like really found her way but they were eventually able to get some money
together to move into a room together on Devonshire Street um but they were really happy together
they were not yeah Michael kidney is a a [ __ ] [ __ ] him so she was drinking heavily again and started
um taking to the street again to get some extra money kind of just falling back into that life because it was a
life she had known she felt comfortable with it and she it's a guaranteed way it's a guarantee they all said it at one
point that it was just quick they would disassociate and they got their money and they would go which is
horrifying to think about for real now he assaulted her one night because he found out that she was got she had gone
back to sex work and he was pissed so one night when she got home he is so like physically assaulted her
um and he was pissed that she was drinking pissed that she was on the streets and meanwhile
he was an abusive drunk was an abusive drunk so he's mad that she's drinking and he's like you're a
piece of [ __ ] drunk and it's like yes so you're a piece of [ __ ] drone right and
then she he's pissed and I'm like well she doesn't have any opportunities [ __ ] like what do you want
you're sitting around drinking the money away You're a shitty [ __ ] too like come on so she had enough after she like
assaulted her and she left so on March 21st 1886 she went to live at Poplar Union Workhouse and was sent to the
infirmary because she was in extremely bad condition she was not doing well it was probably like all the drinking
like exactly and it was just like the life she was having to leave yeah now she did go back to kidneys several times
it was one of those very toxic moments each time it got worse and worse he was more and more abusive but she needed a
roof over her head a lot so she was willing to put up with it that's so sad which is really sad she was brought
before the Thames magistrates Court eight times between 87 and 88 one year uh it was all for drunken disorderly
stuff so she was really going through it the year before she was killed she was going through it and like we said that
seems to be the case it's like yeah you get and it's just so sad because every single one so far has had this little
piece of Hope where like oh you could turn it around yeah but life just doesn't want them no exactly and it's
like right here is where like she was at her worst she was back to sex work which
she was not happy doing she wasn't cooking she wasn't uh like Michael kidney and her were back and forth but
every time it was is abuse abuse abuse she's just in a terrible Place September 20th of 1988 she was walking in White
Chapel and she met a woman named Catherine Lane and her friend Elizabeth Tanner when she started talking to
Catherine she was like oh this is Elizabeth and Elizabeth Tanner was like oh I'm the manager of the lodging house
on flower and Dean Street and she was like if you want to stay there like I'll help you out because she heard her story
and she was like wow like you have a terribly abusive partner like I'm gonna try to help you out okay so she told her
you can stay there she was like you need to do some laundry you need to clean I'll pay you a small
amount and you can stay for a roof over your head which was huge and she was like I can also help out in the kitchen
okay she was like cool perfect this is great okay so they got along really well things were going well she got she's a
few days into this new job this new lodging situation Elizabeth Tanner was really liking stride she said she got
along with her she would have been happy to have her there for longer and on September 29th 1888 they went drinking
together at the Queen's head Pub around 6 30 p.m which it's like they must have really liked each other like she's the
deputy of this lodging house so usually they're like manager of lodging out she's not like going drinking with the
tenants exactly a lot of times they were dicks and it's like sometimes they were
cool and it seems like if the two of them are getting along so well like must have been a nice relationship well it's
like at that point too it's like maybe she could have found herself like co-managing this place exactly now
people from the lodging house remember her coming back around 7pm so after having that drink with Elizabeth Tanner
and then getting ready to leave again and by 7 30 a few of them witnessed her in the kitchen they said she appeared to
be in good spirits was happy she was openingly readying herself to walk the streets that evening so she was saying
I'm gonna make a few I'm gonna make some money yeah now Witnesses saw her with several different men slash possibly
clients throughout the evening before 11 pm a couple of men saw her speaking to a
man they described as wearing a jacket that had white flowers pinned to it they both called him clerkley looking like he
looked like you know what color means I think it's like you look like a clerk I guess he had a dark mustache I don't
know if it's just like okay because I saw this and I was like that's a strange description but somebody else describes
a man that way too the two men saw the this man and her leaving the bricklayers arms in um which is a uh Pub the
bricklayer's arms in settle Street together and they were like kissing each other and hugging okay so like seemed
very close yeah more witnesses saw Elizabeth with this man and they were both going towards Commercial Street
or Commercial Road excuse me at 11 45 PM William Marshall a witness reported he saw Elizabeth quote kissing and carrying
on with a man he described as a clerk looking man this man was described as having a
sailor's hat on and they were walking towards duckfield's court near the international workman's educational Club
already I don't know if you remember that I do he heard this man saying to her you would say anything but your
prayers oh and she laughed so I think he was being like cheeky like you would say
anything about your prayers and she was like haha cheeky but duckfield's yard like we said is next to that club which
was hopping late at night but the yard itself was gated off in Pitch Black it was a just it was described as a place
you would have to grope your way through to get to the other side of where the gate was and that's the thing like I
don't even think we can actually grasp how [ __ ] dark it is I cannot I cannot grasp the concept of how dark this is
because I'm like picturing it and every now and again I'm like a street light and I'm like none no and I panic when
like the lights go off and there's no source of light and you have to like find a light switch nope that is a real
Panic moment for me I don't like like heavy heavy Darkness I don't like the sound of Darkness yeah it's so thinking
of that outside when it's dangerous and you know there's like tons of people who
are just gonna stab you around and like rob you yeah and like possibly rape you like they're just everywhere what like I
don't want that dude I used to have to walk through the common like from the uh Salon that I used to work at to where I
would park and I would be so [ __ ] terrified and that place is lit exactly like fully lit fully lit but like still
scary at night exactly now so they were walking towards there um a few minutes later they were seen they believe that
this is the same guy seen at a green grocery shop who was uh the grocer was Matthew Packer it was on Burner Street
he told I guess what happened in there was the guy walked up to the grocer Matthew Packer and was like
um like get her whatever she wants okay so she was like and she was like I want some grapes and he was like what kind of
grapes would you like we have this grape or this grape she asked for a certain kind of grave she said I want cotton
candy he brought it there you go and he bought her the grapes Packer said he believed this man was about 35 years old
everything seemed fine according to him now police Constable William Smith saw Elizabeth around 12 30 a.m near
duckfield's yard with a man he said was about 28 years old which is like a very specific number
wearing a dark coat and a deer stalker's cap so a different man different man but
if you remember that deer stalkers I do Annie Chapman was talking to a man with a deer stalker's cap you might be like
whoa but dear stalker's hats were very common then so it's not but we know still weird but we know that she
switched uh there's a different man because the previous man had a sailor's cat exactly I'm paying attention there
you go see you're on it I'm on it now he was also carrying a package that was wrapped in newspaper apparently
that other man was carrying a package there was there was a few like there's different sources that say because I
think also Witnesses confuse themselves in these situations but there is there is a package in newspaper that comes up
every now and then in these which makes you wonder is that where his he's keeping his tools exactly Allah Albert
Fish exactly what does he does he walk around with them and that's how he walks around with them because no one would
question somebody with a package craft a newspaper especially back then right why
would anyone care I had never picked up like I've listened to so much coverage about this case but I'd never come up
with that before yeah you don't know yeah we don't know but it would make a lot yeah it's not a weird thing to think
is you walking around with like a six to eight inch knife in his pocket yeah it's
like either it's in his pocket in a sheath of some Court sort but like it would be it would make more sense if he
was just walking around with it in a newspaper package right because No One's Gonna blink at that right and he can
walk away still holding the package and No One's Gonna think and if anything it looks less suspicious because you're
just everybody's walking around holding [ __ ] right now a few minutes later she
was spotted on Fair close street with a man who people said was about five foot seven and was wearing a long black coat
that went to his ankles okay this witness heard her say No not tonight some other night okay that particular
one it is reported in everything but some people some ripperologists out there they believe that that was not her
and it's just because when you put it together with everything it seems like that may have been somebody who they
thought was her but not sure worth noting exactly uh then that brings us to 12 45 a.m when Israel Schwartz was on
his way home he saw a man about five foot five he said he looked to be about 30 years old he looked to be a little
drunk a little tipsy entering and he was in the entrance of duckfield's yard he had kind of like a round face he said
he had brown hair a small brown mustache he was wearing all dark clothing like black shirt black pants black hat black
everything he was a goth he was uh in the police report from October 19th 1888 it states this and I quote so Israel
Schwartz stated at this hour on turning onto into Berner street from Commercial Road and having got as far as the
Gateway where the murder was committed he saw a man stop to speak to a woman who was standing in the Gateway the man
tried to pull the woman into the street but he turned her round and threw her down on the footway and the woman
screamed three times but not very loudly on Crossing to the opposite side of the
street he saw a second man standing lighting his pipe the man who threw the woman down called out apparently to the
man on the opposite side of the road lipsky that's what he yelled and then Schwartz walked away
but finding that he was followed by the second man the one with the pipe he was lighting he ran so far as the railway
Arch but the man did not follow so far Schwartz cannot say whether the two men were together or known to each other
upon being taken to the mortuary Schwartz identified the body as that of the woman he had seen and he thus
describes the first man who threw the woman down aged about 30 height five foot five complexion fare hair dark
small brown mustache full face broad-shouldered dressed in a dark jacket and trousers black cap with a
peek and he had nothing in his hands all right now this was interesting to me because lipsky what does that mean you
you asked me that the reason I looked away from you is because I was Googling it well don't worry because I'm going to
tell you about it oh good so now according to casebook.org which I linked in part one I believe in the show notes
but I'll do it again here there was an article posted in ripperologist magazine which I did not know was a thing but
apparently it's like a very big periodical in the ripperology space love to hear it this um this article was
written by Robert McLaughlin and in it he talks about what this lip ski could mean
I was curious myself in this article really it made me think so I recommend reading this entire article and again
I'm going to post the link to it in the show notes but basically it's a discussion about what exactly lipsky
means and if that is even what Israel Schwartz said like maybe he was mistaken like maybe heard it wrong yeah maybe or
excuse me not what he said but what he heard yeah so the year prior in 1887 this is very interesting on Burner
Street which was very close to the scene a man named Israel lipsky oh [ __ ] murdered a woman who is in the same
lodging house as he was staying her name was Miriam Angel and he murdered her by
pouring nitric acid down her throat Jesus it's a wild story and I I went into it for like an hour I'm going to
cover that story in more detail by itself because it deserves an entire episode but he confessed to it and was
hanged on August 20 22nd 1887 seven damn this was only a year earlier so did lipsky start to mean murder well so his
real his real surname was actually lebowsk but he changed it when he arrived in London a lot of people did
that no one really knows why he was Jewish and since anti-Semitism was rampant around this time yeah you would
mentioned people think like maybe he thought it sounded less Jewish lipsky but it was a massive case that was
everywhere in all the papers and people had it on their minds for sure now one possibility for this was that this man
shouted lipsky at his friend across the street and meant it as like a verb almost according to the complete Jack
the Ripper by Donald rumbola which again I really love uh men would often say these things during to their like during
arguments with their wives like domestic disputes they'd say things like I'll White Chapel you after these murders
yeah oh my God it was very common thing in London I guess at the time people would take events and use them as like
verbs kind of thing I guess we kind of still do that to this day yeah and I guess then it was just like a little
more like prominent gratuitous I suppose but uh so maybe this man was trying to harm Elizabeth and yelled lipsky like
I'm gonna lipstick you or possibly he was hurling an insult to Israel Schwartz again anti-Semitism was
rampant and maybe he saw Israel looking their way and not minding his own business and he yelled lipsky the name
of a really Infamous Jewish murderer at Schwartz as an insult because that it I mean like especially at this time during
the Jack the Ripper murders Jewish people were being they were in danger at this point like people so him yelling
that would have been like a threat and it could have definitely been an insult and Israel Schwartz himself was like he
could have looked at me and been like I think you're Jewish and I'm just gonna yell this nasty insult to you like to
get him to go away right so that could be something that in which all of these are horrifying so far to use lipsky as a
verb first of all and then to just like hurl and anti you know Semitic like basic like insult at somebody right or
this was something I had wondered this next one and I was glad to see it questioned in that article as well
because my initial thought was that maybe he wasn't saying lipsky at all maybe he was saying Lizzy or something
like that oh her name is Elizabeth she was called Liz sometimes it seems to me when I read this incident I read the
report it felt personal to me this man was dragging her out on the street right and that doesn't feel jacked to me it
very it feels very domestic violence to me Michael kidney perhaps the guy that she was with that was abusive was he
trying to get her to go back home with him somewhere and she was refusing because again he's dragging her into the
middle of the street he's not dragging her into an alley yeah and because when she was refusing this man pushed her to
the ground oh and I don't know it just feels weirdly personal that feels domestic violency I absolutely agree
yeah she also didn't call out for help like I feel like she would have had a stranger been assaulting her she
screamed but it even says not very loudly and no specific and that like help me scream right and that pain that
scream that she did let out could have just been like in pain yeah it could have just been like a completely
involuntary right yell that she just fell down to the ground like you said in pain and maybe he yelled Lizzy or
something like that yeah or even yelled lipsky at her like who knows like But Lizzy to me seems like it's like an
interesting thought at the very least I agree and Robert McLaughlin in that article also said that so I was glad to
see somebody else thought that but all to say the lipsky incident happened at 12 45 a.m and by 1am she was dead Okay
so this was 15 minutes later right he's dead now the Matthew Packer statement which was the one that um he was the
grocer at the green grocer they came in he was like oh give her all the grapes she would like that statement fell apart
as well oh he had originally said he saw nothing and no one's strange but now he
was claiming the grape story now that a reward was being offered and um the police were not offering a reward
they're refusing to which I understand they were like hesitant to do that because they were worried people would
do these things private citizens were offering rewards and like media was um also her post-mortem showed that she
did not have any grape in her system oh and his statement is like buy her any grape she wants and she was like I want
those grapes and was like all excited when you were explaining that I was like I've never really met anybody that was
like that stoked about grapes yeah I mean it was London in 1888 so I think grapes were like that would have been a
great thing to get for her I mean that I don't think she's eating that's great so
I think grapes would have been like holy [ __ ] I can have some fresh grapes like
sure because she probably didn't have the money to buy them herself that's true you know so that wasn't too crazy
for me it was just more like that guy that grape story along with the the myth of her holding on to like a
bunch of grapes in her hands yeah it's just a little bit over the years like the weirdest things
get added to things like this it's weird by itself the whole thing to it the whole thing is weird without the grapes
I promise you no Dr George Phillips and Dr Blackwell were tasked with her post-mortem examination the cause of
death was listed as violent Hemorrhage from Severance of blood vessels in the neck by a sharp instrument she was not
mutilated any further and they believed that this was because Jack the Ripper was interrupted
it says and this is a quote from the autopsy the right hand was lying on the chest and was smeared inside and out
with blood it was quite open the left hand was lying on the ground and was partially closed and it contained a
small packet of Cassius wrapped in tissue paper those are breath mints now there were no rings or marks of rings on
her fingers the appearance of the face was quote Placid and the mouth was slightly open there was a Czech scar
checkered scarf silk scarf around her neck and the bow of which was turned to the left side and pulled tightly there
was a long incision in the neck which exactly corresponded with the lower border of the scarf the lower edge of
the scarf was slightly frayed as if by a sharp knife the incision on the neck commenced on the left side 2.5 inches
below the angle of the jaw and almost in a direct line with it it nearly severed
the vessels on that side also what's interesting is there's a lot of times in the Jack the Ripper cases
where his knife must be extraordinarily sharp because it frays fabric that it's next to oh wow that cut happens in a lot
of these so that to me says it's like a very sharp knife which a medical examiner which I'm just saying
now the next day the Star newspaper reported quote a man when passing through Church Lane at about half past
one saw a man sitting on a doorstep and wiping his hands as everyone is on the lookout for the murderer the man looked
at the stranger with a certain amount of Suspicion whereupon he tried to conceal
his face he's described as a man who wore a short jacket and a sailor's hat if you remember William Marshall the
random witness saw Elizabeth stride with a man wearing a sailor hat as well oh honey I remember oh you remember
that's just a little interesting thing didn't really get followed up on all right now next day Michael kidney
appeared at the police station himself oh did he drunk as hell and told them if he was the policeman on beat when
Elizabeth's body was found he would kill himself what okay Michael like wow I'd be like you didn't have to
come here to say that yeah they were just like thank you okay have a good day I suppose cool of you to profess yeah he
was having a real moment now here I don't know if I buy Elizabeth stride as a ripper victim oh is where is
is my ending thing here her injuries were done according to Dr Phillips in seconds that throat cut he said could
have taken less than five seconds boom done the throat was quick and he said it was done with a blunter
more beveled knife so that the side of it could have been sharp like razor sharp but it was blunted at the top he
believed ah so not a pointed sharp six to eight inch knife that was very clear in the other killings so
this is strange to me that he would use a different knife right and it just I don't know nothing I know that
like he could have been interrupted and I that's why I'm not saying that I that she's definitely not a ripper victim
because maybe he was interrupted maybe somebody came maybe it was um the first guy Lewis when he was on
his um with his horse and cart and maybe the horse coming into the yard scared Turtle ran away yep and then we have a
this is the double event So within I mean so close to this one he goes crazy on another Buzz maybe he did maybe
because he didn't get to that is the that's the thing that a lot of people hang on to that that must be why
Catherine Meadows was so brutalized but then at the same time uh we're talking about White Chapel yeah and it's like I
don't know Elizabeth to me I'm like I don't know I I wonder if she was killed by Elizabeth strive was killed by
someone she knew you think I don't know I'm not saying it's definitely it but to
me it feels a little more like it I don't know if she I would definitively Place her in the canonical five I don't
know if I would keep her I know she's in there but I don't know about that one I'll have to get back to you after I
read the 602 books that you recommended yeah there you go get get all your reading in and then you let me know okay
sounds good talk to you in a few years I'm not I'm not super alone in this feeling there are people who don't
believe that she's a stride is one of them um but I you know I'm just saying I think it's a little strange I guess here
are Catherine eddos and then you can tell me so 1 30 a.m after the Elizabeth stride Elizabeth stride has been found
the scene has been cleared at 1 30 a.m um police Constable for the city police Edward Watkins was walking his beat and
he walked directly through miter Square in aldgate nothing was out of the ordinary this is his regular beat that
he would just you know because they would that that beat they would take is like the same path you know things were
you know as chaotic as they normally would be at this time couldn't see and all that kind of [ __ ] yeah all that fun
stuff um but 14 minutes later 14 minutes later he Loops back around to walk that same
beat again this time when he passed through he immediately saw a woman lying on her back on the ground he had just
walked through this right he used his Lantern for light and when he's shown it over her it was clear that she had been
brutally murdered her clothing was intentionally and aggressively cut open to expose her entire body like cut open
she was soaked from head to toe in blood her torso had been eviscerated cut open
from rectum to sternum yes I said rectum to sternum and not growing to sternum her intestines were slashed and cut a
two foot piece of intestines were laid on the ground cut out of her body and laid on the ground but next to her
between her body and her arm another larger piece of the intestines was draped over her right shoulder
and if you remember Annie Chapman same thing draped over the shoulder a Clear Connection there now she had a
deep laceration across her throat and her face was slashed several times the killer had also cut through part of her
right ear like cut it off he had just walked like this guy had just walked through here and now he
loops around not 15 minutes later and this kind of damage was already done that is insane like that's the thing
it's not like he walked through and he found Elizabeth's stride with her throat cut something that could have happened
within seconds right this is like Andy making your surgery but like not for surgery when you find out what he did
like this alone is outrageous when you find out the details here I have no idea how he did all this in that time it's in
truly was like is Jack the Ripper a person I know he seems like a phantom and I can't imagine what this guy must
have felt like the patrolman he must have been like an alternate reality you want you loop back around and you're
like what how like how did this happen like how did I miss this the first time around yeah so she was killed in a
corner by an alley and looking at a surveyor map of the murder site I saw that there was literally like two lamps
in the entire Square just two lamps one was across the street but far away and one was around the corner and probably
would have been like no help for lighting purposes where she was and next to her were three empty homes and across
the way like literally across the street was the home of Patrol um police Constable Richard Pierce who
was asleep in his home at the time of the murder and could have seen it from his bedroom window stop if he looked out
his bedroom and if you look at the surveyors map I'll see if we can post it you can see it was right there
which again makes you wonder like did somebody know that that's the thing I wonder if they knew that he lived there
and they did that to be like wake up right out your door yeah like look out your window I just did it right under
your your bedroom window exactly and I think that was part of it now nearby was a warehouse kearly in tongs where night
Watchman and former Metropolitan Police Force officer named George James Morris was sweeping uh Watkins ran in there and
told him there was another woman in the Square he said she was cut to pieces and
that her intestines were tossed quote in a heap over her shoulder and that he was
like I need help I could come yeah I think he like the direct quotas he read in there was like for God's sake man
help me and he was like what I don't know what you need going on now Morris followed him out and upon seeing the
body he whistled for help himself he told Watkins he had not seen or heard anything and that his Warehouse door had
been open while he swept for the last few minutes that's crazy um and two police officers showed up
after their call for assistance one of them was PC James Harvey Harvey showed up and he was shocked not
only just at the scene in front of him but because he he had actually walked to miter square at 1 40.
and had seen nothing what he had seen nothing at all this she was found at 145 right he had walked
there at 1 45 minutes nothing at all Harvey was there like literally there five minutes before and saw nothing and
he was adamant I saw nothing here what the [ __ ] dude now according to Jack the
Ripper Scotland Yard investigates this would mean Harvey was literally within yards while Jack was murdering this
woman and heard nothing and heard nothing you would think too that he like he would have heard even like us like a
phone yeah yeah or like I think he just he severs that windpipe so click the quick that it's just he can but for him
to do it in the dark he does this [ __ ] in the dark and he's meticulous that's the other thing the fact that he's doing
this in the dark and this is a kind of a crude question to ask but do organs make
a lot of noise when they're being taken out of the body like I would think that like when you take somebody's intestines
out and slump them over their shoulder that that would make some kind of noise it would that's the thing because also
like the the mesentery was cut often times off of these intestines the message is what attaches it to the
abdomen so it's like thick rough piece of skin almost like that it's you have to when we would do an autopsy part of
it is you remove the bowels and you would start at the bottom of the intestines and you would basically Flay
away that mesentery so you could pull the intestines out otherwise you're tearing and ripping them away from that
mesentery so for him to be able to plop some next to her and also fling some above her
shoulder right he had to take that sharp blade and he had to know to cut that mesentery I didn't know it was there and
if you do it find it and this is very this is going to sound crude but it's just reality you know how when you are
like um when you're cutting wrapping paper and your scissors you get that nice side it just Glides the way we
would do it is you once you get that one cut on the mesentery you can pull the intestines and glide that blade across
it and pull them all out until you get to the end okay and yeah so it's for him to know to do that
because otherwise it would take him a lot longer because he'd be ripping and pulling you'd hear that and it's hard
it's not easy to do like a lot of times when we would do an autopsy if you were gonna you not use a blade because there
were some autopsy technicians that just preferred to use their hands for a lot of things that's a red flag it just is
the way it is a red flag there's some things that are easier to use your hands because you don't want to get a blade
lost somewhere and cut yourself like because sometimes you're just like blindly having to cut you don't have to
go like super into detail anymore I'm an empath and I can feel all of this but sometimes they would use their hands to
rip something away from something else and it makes a very clear sound a squish sound at the very least I said number
two it takes bit I mean I worked with like big guys it takes them muscle to get right and that's them in a well-lit
area with a very easy leverage of leaning over a table while we have like you know yeah this guy is doing it on
the ground could you do this have you done this what the can you do this like rip things away with your hands can you
do the um like take it from the mezzanine the mezzanine not the balcony let's go see a movie yeah the uh cutting
the mesentery away from the the intestines and like removing the bowels was is one of the things they do like
when you first start working there at least where I work it's like that's your like hey you're new you get to do the
bowels and it's like oh thank you because it's like once you learn how to do it it becomes very second nature they
make you do it at first because it's I mean it's it's like one of the more foul jobs of of all the evisceration jobs
that's kind of like when I worked at a pizza place and they made us eat an anchovy for uh it's the exact same it's
exactly like that it's because you like same deal yeah it's the I know and all these I I this is gonna be really gross
but hi we're in Jack Ripper and I'm an autopsy technician so it's going to get weird in a lot of reports they keep it
that weird I'll keep it that weird yeah they they mentioned the intestines obviously that's a very important thing
that it was ripped out that it was over her shoulder in a lot of them they mention like and there was like fecal
matter like you know on the intestine like they they do it like it's like this is a strange thing and I'm like well
that's where it is like I'm like if you pull someone's intestines out that's gonna be there like this isn't a weird
thing yeah we all poop that's really not something to note it's just like that's
where the poop goes yeah so I just think it's so weird I'm like you don't have to
do that no you just said that that's rude we know what intestines have inside of them I don't need to know yeah it's
like he didn't do that on purpose so it was just part of the that's actually probably like wouldn't have wanted to do
that on purpose don't they tell you like don't cut the poop pipe don't cut the poop pipe kid but that you know that is
just that part the ripping out the intestines so [ __ ] quickly and doing it with such like ease
and with no and not even just doing that if he just did that I'd be impressed but
he does a [ __ ] ton of other stuff in this small period of time with no light either right and it's really wild but to
my point then there would have been a noise there would have been a noise exactly so I think there would have been
noises of some kind even just like you know it's like it's gooey in there like things make sloshing noises that's what
I was picturing to be on limping noises there's ripping noises in fact one of the no you just one more thing uh keep
it to yourself honey when you remove the pelvic block or the um or you know the thoracic block whatever you're removing
um when you are able to get it away from the sides of the body it makes a suction
noise oh and that was always called like the noise of Victory because it means that you you are able to actually lift
the block out because it's hard work it's like hard to get that that noise I just made was actually involuntary I'm
not kidding it just came out that was the noise of victory for me because I terrified you I don't even want an
autopsy anymore yeah I'm gonna put in my will to not autopsy me it's a good thing
I promise it was probably my fault don't autopsy it was probably my fault I like
that so yeah Wild now Dr Frederick Gordon Brown the city surgeon was called to the scene at 2 18 a.m he noted that
she appeared to have not been raped and she was still very warm now is can I ask
how would they even know if she had been raped because he slashed her from growing yeah I know from
buttocks to everywhere yeah to sternum and yeah I don't know I'm going to be honest with that one I don't know what
they were using as a a yardstick there but but I'll hey Dr Brown said no they all said none of them appeared to have
been sexually assaulted okay but yeah but they were sexually mutilated but they were sexual that's
the thing and they all obviously are like they were very much sexually mutilated they just weren't like raped
in the like you know uh I don't even know how you would say that during the actual sense of the word rape I suppose
sure um well and realistically he wouldn't have had time no everyone else that he
did that's the thing he definitely wouldn't have now a few police constables looked around the scene and
around the body and right next to the body some buttons from boots a metal button a thimble and a mustard tin with
two Pawn tickets were in it were found one of the tickets was signed with the surname Kelly
and at this point they were like we don't know who this person is so this is the only clue we have now she was
brought to Golden Lane Mortuary and she was stripped and washed now obviously she was not identified right away
because she had no identification on her so the press the Press published the details of what they found in her
pockets okay um because they were thinking you know hopefully somebody will be like oh I
know that yeah who carried that or like the pawn shop would be like cheap oh that's what this is
um in in the paper so they all included all of this which along with wearing they said she was wearing basically
everything that she owned on her body at the time oh she probably had to and she
was also carrying pretty much everything she owned at the time so they wrote this
that this was in her pockets and on her person a piece of string a common white handkerchief with a red border a
matchbox with cotton on it a white linen pocket containing a white bone handle table knife very blunt with no blood on
it two short clay pipes a red cigarette case with red metal fittings a check pocket containing five pieces of soap a
small tin box containing tea and sugar a portion of a pair of spectacles a three
Corner check handkerchief and a large white linen pocket containing a small comb a red Mitten and a ball of worsted
don't know what that is yeah I'll look it up she was also wearing like I said a ton of clothing many many layers she was
wearing a black fur trimmed jacket with an apron tied over the whole thing a chin skirt with three flounces a brown
Lindsay dress bodice with a black velvet collar a gray Petticoat a green alpaca skirt an old blue skirt with a red
flounce a white Calico chemise a men's white vest with buttons down the front men's lace-up boots a neck handkerchief
and a black straw Bonnet that was lined and trimmed with green and black velvet most of it had been cut right through
and was Bloody on all the edges which then again tells you how sharp that sharp was to cut through all of it and
not with a blunt top because you would need a sharp knife to get that cut right so then again that kind of uh helps your
point yeah because why is he switching knives right like he wouldn't kill one person with a beveled edge knife knife
like a blunt knife and then just switch knives for somebody else yeah I don't think so either that doesn't make sense
by the way worsted is a high quality type of wool yarn oh that's good to know thank you no problem now with these
details um that were published a man named John Kelly came forward saying he believed it may have been the woman that
he had been living with for seven years and he said her name is Catherine eddos she also went by Kate since we have been
together for this long sometimes people call her Miss Kelly oh so Catherine was born April 14 1842 in
grazley Green in the West Midlands she was one of 11 children her parents were Catherine and George eddos her mother
was a cook at the peacock Inn and her father was a tin plate varnisher at the old Hall works I looked this up because
I was like what's a TIN plate varnisher my God I just went on down like a rabbit
hole I was about this morning yeah Alina was like so last night I looked this thing
up and then I found and I was like we haven't had coffee can't stop we'll stop I cannot So eventually because I was
looking this up and he eventually moved the family to London because they were bringing in stamping machines to take
over the human tin jobs at the old Hall like some of the jobs so I was like what
so tin plate workers made beautiful tin products actually like when you see those beautiful trays or plates with
intricate designs all over them from the Victorian era oh pretty like painted designs that she does and like painted
designs on like gold leaf and such like that that's what it was so George was described as a varnisher and I found
that this meant he worked in the area where the beautiful product would come to him he would apply several coats of
varnish to it stove dry after each coat for varying periods of time until it was
all set then it would move to painters and and all that good stuff to do like the gold leaf and all that very cool
interesting jobs they were yeah it was just very interesting that is cool the stamping portion was like dangerous as
[ __ ] too like doing the stamp outs because it was like they were doing these tiny cutouts and if your finger
was in there you could like rip your finger off yeah so that was interesting so in 1848 the
family had moved to London where he could get a new job in the same kind of industry they actually moved to burmanzi
which is funny considering I just covered the Bermondsey horror recently uh four more children were born to
George and Catherine but only two survived uh Catherine attended a school called down gate charity School
specifically created to train poor children to just be able to get by and stay off the streets oh it wasn't a
school where she would learn to you know be something great or get out of her situation it was teaching her to have
the skills she could use to just keep her head above water uh because she was a girl she wasn't
taught math or anything that was actually going to Aid her in any kind of business venture no she was just taught
sewing in the Bible of his essentially like at this point it's like don't you want to create more jobs yeah it's like
girls can do it I promise you like look around you'll have maybe give them a shot deaths to investigate
now she was Catherine was Tiny adorable with curly or auburn hair and apparently
a sweet and lovely human um everyone called her chick because she was so tiny oh she loved to sing this
singing voice was something she carried into adulthood and people commented on her beautiful voice her entire life Wow
when Catherine was 13 her mother died of tuberculosis and 13 years old and her father died two years later oh man yeah
unfortunately this meant the younger siblings were all split up and put into workhouses and schools like the ones
Catherine was attending the older siblings were trying to make sure their siblings were you know could keep
basically just get good work stay out of trouble like they were trying to become
the parents they were her older siblings were able to get her Catherine in with her aunt Elizabeth and Uncle William who
was her father's brother oh good uh they were happy to take her in they were like
we're gonna get her work as like a domestic servant or something in Wolverhampton she was kind she was sweet
she acted as a surrogate and this is Aunt Elizabeth acting like a surrogate mother for Catherine like it was all
great good um and she was in a nice clean living space living in a nice home there were
opportunities the home was on bilston street and everyone around the community came to know and really love Catherine
she was Restless though she wasn't the kind of gal to just settle into a boring job and be content she was definitely
destined to do something more but was obviously just not given every opportunity to do it and it feels like
that is really the thing with a lot of these women I've said it before it's the theme throughout they're Restless
they're not content to just sit nope now around this time when she was 16 she met
a man named Thomas Conway he was from Kill Giver Lewisburg County Mayo in Ireland and he was older than her and a
soldier in the Royal Irish regiment they took a liking to each other but nothing
blossomed until later no she got a job at her father's old place of work at Old Hall she was a scourer which meant she
was there just to sweep and mop up after the workers she was fired very quickly for allegedly stealing allegedly
allegedly this was all it took her aunt and uncle kicked her out of the house oh
man yeah so I don't know how much how allegedly it was it feels like there might have been some uh might have known
that that happened but you know she moved in with another Uncle Thomas eddos in Birmingham and she lasted even less
time there and ended up moving back to Wolverhampton with her grandfather who got her a job as a tin Stamper so really
staying in that Tim business they loved him they loved him and tin in that family so basically she was the only she
was only going to be using um she was there to use the machine to emboss the design on stuff like I talked
about earlier the kind of dangerous job yeah literally only a couple of weeks later she quit and went back to
Birmingham well it was probably a lot yeah this is where she moved in with none other than her old Crush Thomas
Conway oh my goodness the flame at this time he had been pensioned from the military because he had gotten sick
but he was healthier now so now the two of them got together and they started traveling all over together he made and
sold chat books which were tiny little versions of literature and poetry books um they were usually hand bound and
comprised to like of many different source is from the inside other than this they started making money creating
Gallows ballads what is that they wrote and printed songs and poems about murderers who were about to be hanged oh
[ __ ] that's so very ironic so they traveled to different jails and literally sold these to people watching
a public execution and apparently they made some good money at it wow and there were a lot of hangings at this time so
it was like the couple were not officially married but Catherine went by Catherine Conway and would describe
Thomas as her husband okay she seemed very in love oh the couple was very intense and Catherine got TC tattooed on
her forearm and blue ink are you [ __ ] me I love it she was a rebel they had two children two daughters
named Annie and Catherine Anne I didn't even realize sorry that tattoos Could Happen yeah it was like a thing yeah
back then now in 1866 they actually did a Gallows ballad for her cousin Christopher Charles Robinson who was
hanged for murdering his fiancee in Cold Blood oh in 1868 they had a son named Thomas in this same year they outlawed
public executions which completely took away the need for Gallows ballads and boom source of income done depleted gone
they moved to Surrey around this time and she took up work as a laundress this is when things got bad the family
was in and out of workhouses now around these times and money was not coming in at all August 1873 while living in St
George's workhouse Catherine had another baby boy named Alfred George things went
from bad to worse things were Bleak now in both Thomas and Catherine were drinking heavily oh no it seemed the
only way to cope with the horrid times that they were living in but Thomas was an [ __ ] when he drank the real Thomas
came out and he was violent and would beat Catherine when he was drunk oh no yeah they broke up and he kept Thomas
and Alfred George and she took Annie and Catherine so they split the kids okay she asked if she could live with the um
her aunt Elizabeth and Uncle William again for the time being but they said absolutely not because you [ __ ] up
hard when you were living with us and you're not coming back okay a legend very uh tough love she was on the
streets now in London and she was and I think the kids were kind of like staying
with friends a lot of the time yeah uh her kids had like very you know um they had very uh conflicting things
to say one one of them felt one way about her and the other one felt the other way okay and those were her two
daughters yeah but they were with friends a lot I don't think they were with Catherine all that much now she was
on the Streets of London now she was drinking even more heavily and this was really the beginning of the end so she
began getting arrested for drunk and disorderly Behavior a lot and started sex work as a means of getting even just
enough money to put a roof over her head it's kind of unfortunately a similar tale to a lot of the victims it was
during this time that she found herself chatting with a man at spittlefield's Market his name was John Kelly yeah and
he had recently become a widow he was he had lost his wife he was kind he was sweet and he just wanted to make her
happy okay he was also sober great and the reason he was sober was he just didn't think it was worth spending money
on alcohol because he was like I don't have a lot so I'm not going to spend it on alcohol for this well that's the
thing right he was like and he said I'm working my ass off for precious little I'm not gonna waste it on drinks that
was his whole thing mom sadly she was still kind of telling people her name was Kate Conway even when people started
seeing her and John Kelly together and people would be like oh Mrs Kelly and she was like it's Conway and it was like
eek but I think she was really in love with Thomas Conway toxic situation and when they had spent years together
children together and you can't help who you love and I think she was just not willing to give up that relationship
like the idea of it again yeah well and I mean she was newly with this Adams man
so she's probably like I'm not like no yeah she basically she would answer to Kelly
sometimes but she would kind of flip back and forth like she would answer which again a lot of these women too and
a lot of people back then had a lot of aliases they were going by so I think that was just another way to have
different names too right so she was also suffering from Bright's disease what is that now we would call it
nephritis and it's an inflammation of the nephrons and the glomeruli which help the kidneys produce urine they're
part of the kidneys so she would have probably been suffering from a lot of symptoms associated with it including
shortness of breath back and flank pain fluid retention in her hands and her face it would have been like kind of
tough huh like exhaustion yeah so she I had no idea that one of them was suffering from that so she's sick now
that's just interesting hold on to that for me until later I mean put it in my back pocket put it in your back pocket
so they moved in together at 55 flower and Dean Street at Cooney's lodging house I was gonna say it was rough she
wore everything she owned because things were always being stolen and she was worried that something I hope she wasn't
too hot I think it was pretty well this was um kind of the beginning of fall at this point I suppose like into summer
warm and not too hot now that's again that's why she was found with so many layers because she was wearing them all
now the deputy of the 55 flowering Dean Street Place Frederick William Wilkinson
said that Catherine was quote a very jolly women woman she was described as a very jolly Woman by a lot of people very
jovial and confirm he confirmed that she and John Kelly lived like they were married later he would be the one to
give John Kelly an airtight Alibi for being at the lodging home at night the evening that Catherine was murdered he
was like no he was here all night no and I don't think you would have done it again they drifted together they drifted
like together and Solo in and out of workhouses and lodging houses sometimes they would be staying together sometimes
they wouldn't they would spend a lot of time apart but just drift back together again or as John described it later
quote be thrown together a lot she would often beg and borrow money from her daughters who were now grown they
resented it having been part of the downward spiral that she had taken when they were young so that was a difficult
relationship that she was navigating in the summer of 1888 they were comp they were common law married at this point
yeah and it only takes like 10 years right I think it's less isn't it like seven is oh I think I think it is yeah
seven because they were together seven years so that makes sense um it was this summer in 1888 that they
walked 40 miles together with tons of other workers from London to Kent to do hop picking which would be used to make
beer this was like a huge job a lot of people from London and White Chapel did this they would go do the Hop picking
and they would make some extra money you know this was a nice reprieve from the horrific air and conditions that they
were living in in the city that 40 mile walk was a nice retrieve exactly everything exactly it's true but this
was the first time that they were apparently together like together together all the time and could not
Escape each other and they were not getting along that great well I was gonna say maybe that's why they weren't
together together so much exactly so they ended up they did it they they made a little money not a lot ended up coming
back they left September 27th without a lot to show for it but you know they split up the night they arrived back at
London didn't split up like break up they just kind of like went their separate ways exactly John Kelly went to
stay at the lodging house on flower and Dean Street and Catherine ended up having to go to a couple of work houses
and do manual labor for her stays apparently September 28th she told the manager of Mile and workhouse quote I
have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the White Chapel murderer I think I know him
oh and they were just like okay like they were like who is he he's like she's like I don't know and then they were
like be careful not to become a victim of him out there and she said oh no fear of that oh no and this was on September
28th that's wild and I'm sorry what day was she and this was basically this was the day before so and she was like oh no
fear of that how strange is that and there's a couple other things that like like weird lineups like yeah because I
think um I want to say it was Annie Chapman that was talking in the kitchen of a lodging house about how scary it
was and it was yeah now September 29th um John Kelly and Catherine met for breakfast they had breakfast together
kind of went their own separate ways but they planned to meet back up later that
day uh when they did see each other again it was around 2PM Catherine said she was going to try to go to Bermondsey
to see her daughter Annie and ask for money and she told John that she would be back
in White Chapel around 4pm and we can meet up then I don't know how that went but she certainly wasn't rolling back
into White Chapel at 4 pm in good condition she was seen on something that they called prostitutes Island oh man
and where a lot of women would stand on to try to solicit clients I suppose she was very drunk at this time and
according to the hidden lives of Jack the Ripper victims she was in many sources say and Reports say she was
pretending to do an imitation of a fire engine okay interesting tidbit I found um there was this blog and I will link
to this Vlog because it was really good it was called the history girls blog spot
um if this is at least an interesting explanation for what Catherine was actually going through when she they
said she was doing in drunken impersonation of a fire engine this is just like a take on it because I was
like what is that yeah what is a drunken imitation of a fire engine even like do
you want me to do one like what would it be but would would it sound like that back
then well I don't know what a fire engine sounds like back then that's what I mean I don't know what fire engines
sounded like back then I don't know so I don't know if that would be even because
that's what I thought of like was she making siren noises yeah but I'm like is that what they sounded like back then I
don't even know I assume they would have some kind of well I don't know they would but I just
don't know if it would sound like they did now now this is interesting according to the writer of this blog who
I believe is named Lori but I'm not positive um she posited that maybe due to her
kidney issues which would have left her short of breath maybe she was huffing and puffing like a steam engine fire
trucks were run that way back then by the way and she either ended up going with it because she was getting a laugh
from people who thought she was doing some kind of impersonation and she actually didn't mean to be causing a
scene or maybe she was just drunk and completely out of control and just making a lot of noise but any like there
is a possibility that she was sick and suffering which makes the story even a little different instead of just being
like what she was doing an impersonation of a fire engine it's like maybe she was
just like not able to breathe yeah and people took that as like that's funny what are you doing and she's like oh I'm
being a fire engine like maybe it had to do with her being sick I could have this
just was like it was basically like a very empathetic possible point of view to share and I
just thought it was like a very interesting one it was one that was looking at her as less of just a drunk
you know person person of the night yeah and instead of making her a human who was suffering and maybe was just going
with it or maybe she was just [ __ ] hilarious exactly it's it's just like basically I've kept seeing the fire
engine imitation thing and I was like well I don't know what that looks like one and then two I was like I just I
think that's like a different point of view and it's just interesting because you won't know but it's just something
to think about right and it again reminds you to look at her as somebody who was suffering so I'll link that blog
because I think it's an interesting blog and I wanted to get hit well and it's nice that somebody took the time to like
consider a different point of view right yeah and she didn't say like I know this
she was like yeah you just don't know this right no we got to look at the fact that she did have this kidney disease so
she was arrested that night at 8 30 p.m when a police Constable named George Simmons and another one named Lewis
Robinson found her on the ground on aldgate High Street and she was out cold okay uh they tried to pick her up and
she just like slumped back over which also could have been hand in hand again with her illness yeah she was buried
yeah I was going to say she was shit-faced here this was definitely not the illness but you know not good yeah
so she was taken to Bishops Gate Police Station very intoxicated at this time they asked her her name and she replied
nothing okay which okay she was put in a cell to sober up because they would just
put you in assault wait for a while and be like you good and then just let you out girl they still do it's the drunk
tank but everyone who interacted with her at the station that night said she smelled very strongly of drink and could
not stand up on her own at all so she was in a bad way that night I love that they just say a drink of drink at 12 15
a.m she woke up and they heard her singing softly to herself in like this beautiful voice and that's just what she
would do she would sing softly to herself around 12 30 a.m she said hey when are you gonna let me out of here oh
I wish they had it they said when you're able to take care of yourself we'll let
you out of here so around 1am they let her out she told them before they left she left they were like we need to know
your name address she said her name was Marianne Kelly okay and that she lived at six fashion Street in spitalfields
okay so PC George Hutt let her leave and when she did she turned and said good night old [ __ ] that's iconic there are
reports that she was still drunk at this time but they just figured she couldn't
go anywhere at all to get more drinks so they're really supposed to go home oh she said like just like if they had just
kept longer she would have been probably around it's really sad but this is interesting she did say and
this is in the official reports everywhere you read this it's she did say I shall get a damned fine hiding
when I get home and George Hutt replied which I was like okay George he wrote and serve you right
you have no right to get drunk [ __ ] off which that's that wasn't even like the but that's like [ __ ] you George
but also I'm like so was John Kelly abusing her maybe like was that I'm like who are you
talking about or was she just drunk and she was thinking she was going home to Thomas Conway oh yeah maybe she was like
oh like because they did say she was very drunk when she was leave or they believed she was still so maybe she
was still drunk at thinking like back to when she lived with Thomas Conway and like I'm gonna get home and he's gonna
hurt me or was it possible that she was thinking about going back to the workhouse and like maybe somebody there
like yeah I don't know Sarah would be upset that she was like that and yeah just a very strange comment I thought
considering John Kelly by all accounts was not said to be an abuser hmm I mean were there a lot of accounts
though I guess everybody who knew him was like I didn't know them to get into those kind of fights and usually he
didn't have a lot of privacy if you were going to get into an abusive fight it was going to be around like eight other
families in a room yeah so so I don't know for sure none of us do but it's a very strange comment I just thought it
was weird I mean a lot of people were hitting their wives back then they were that's the thing and I'm like was this
just like a normal comment to make probably but like and then also he didn't like that she dreamed because he
didn't drink exactly so maybe that was it I don't know now it was just interesting so at 1 35 she was spotted
by Witnesses Joseph Levy and Harry uh Harry Harris at the corner of Duke Street and church passage which was an
Avenue that led into miter Square that's where she would later be found she was talking to a man according to
them very closely she had her hand on his chest uh he was said to be medium builds about five foot seven in
somewhere in the area of 30 years old he was fair complected with a mustache we heard this in a lot of the other ones he
was wearing a grayish jacket with a red scarf or neck handkerchief and a gray cloth hat with a peek heard that before
too this is a hat that's almost like a scally cap like almost like a peaky blender hat but it's got like a little
more height to it okay like almost like a Newsboy cap I guess you would say like
one of those yeah yeah you know yep um I'm sure I'm like is that I want that yeah you're right now Levy said that he
when he they passed by them Levy had said he said to Harris look there I don't like going home by myself when I
see those characters about right like he was really cool he later said he was like I wasn't nervous or like thinking
they were gonna hurt me he just figured seeing a man and a woman seemingly chatting closely in a dark alley at
almost 2 am probably meant they were not up to any anything wholesome yeah so he
was like that's all I was saying I didn't think they were threatening in any way either one of them 1 45 a.m only
about 10 minutes later she was discovered ravaged and disemboweled on the street in the dark
now while removing her clothing doctors found a piece of her ear when it dropped
out of her the fabric of her clothing just dropped on the ground oh yeah Dr Brown performed the autopsy but pres um
but present to observe the whole thing was Dr George William sakera Dr Phillips and Dr William Sanders
now when he began the examination he noticed that both eyelids had been sliced open like vertically uh the left
one had a quarter inch slice through the lower lid and the right was sliced all the way through there was also a very
deep laceration that began at the bridge of her nose and extended across her right cheek to her jaw it had cut down
to the bone in her face wow the tip of her nose was sliced off and her upper lip was also cut in half down to the gum
which was sliced underneath it her mouth was sliced at the right side of it up into her cheek and both of her cheeks
underneath her eyes had little triangular Cuts with the that the skin flapped over okay like very deliberate
Cuts triangles under her eyes which was not seen in any other ones no now the cut to the abdomen that completely
eviscerated her was Jagged and described as zigzagged but from a sketch I saw in
Scotland Yard investigates it looks to me like more of an attempt to avoid slicing the belly button in half and why
would you not want to do that so this is what so here's the thing the cut extends
from the breastbone down to the groin pelvic bone and it takes a quick detour from its straight path when it hits that
navel and I'm just speaking from my experience with eviscerating but when we would start the eviscerations
and begin with the why shaped incision we would intentionally divert the cut around the belly button before bringing
it back down to the pelvic area it was just a thing we did to not split the navel in half okay that's all to me this
indicates that it could possibly some be someone who has performed an autopsy before and their muscle memory causes
them to eviscerate like that because they've been doing it like that I know this is murder and not a clinical
evisceration but if they are used to doing that it may just be habit like if I'm going to cut a body open this is how
I do it just doesn't even think about it just whoop takes that detour I would never just I would never my I don't
think my brain would let me after hundreds of autopsies cut straight down through that navel yeah it would be an
automatic detour around that navel yeah so that was interesting to me seeing that because I was like wait a second
that's how I cut and I that's and that's just how I've been taught to cut right and was he taught to cut like that
yeah I'm obviously as you're saying this I'm just trying to figure out who this guy is yes now the report even says that
the cut was straight down to within a quarter of an inch from the navel and then went horizontal and around the left
side of the navel before coming back around and going straight back down again leaving that navel untouched yeah
I think they said um in one of the books I saw it was like on a tongue of skin they called it sure now to make me even
more suspicious that this was someone with at least a medical background they had removed her left kidney cleanly
like that's also weird because she had kidney problems exactly they had sliced through the renal capsule and removed it
the renal capsule is like this thin layer that this like encapsulating the kidney okay Dr Brown said he believed
this was definitely someone with knowledge of anatomy and direct and dissection because they had to know
where the kidney was located first of all which I don't know where the [ __ ] my
kidneys it's not easy to find when you open from the front because their their kidneys are closer to closer to the back
yeah and so there when you open from the front you got to look for them they're not just right there for you to see like
they're not just like hanging above something are they like in the middle are they toward your lower back they're
towards the lower right and it's they're not easy to find and part of her uterus
was also removed against another uterus removed and take the killer took these two things with them in part of the
uterus yeah like I guess he he took most of the uterus but it wasn't as clean as
the other one was but the kidney was clean they had cut it at the right vessel they they had removed it in a way
that wasn't just torn out of the body she had kidney disease was this someone who knew who she was knew she had a
kidney disease and did that to kind of doctor yeah also her liver had been stabbed her
vagina and rectum had been lacerated and stabbed the killer had sliced to the right thigh
up to the labia and separated that as well to create one big flap of skin the pancreas and spleen were also lacerated
and stabbed and like the others she had died from the Hemorrhage of the several severed carotid artery and everything
else was done postmortem and so so you said the pancreas the spleen and the liver and the liver because you first
said the liver so I thought oh is this somebody that knows her no she's a heavy drinker and grabbing the liver to put
that out there but the pancreas spleen I mean it all works together it's all kind
of yeah one big happy family in there so it's like you're gonna but it's just and
I don't know if those were like frenzied stabs but yeah no matter what she he took the kidney he took the uterus he
sliced off her ear only part of her ear came out of her clothing would her kidneys have looked different because
they they would have had like a shriveled kind of appearance and pale so again you wonder if it's like this guy
has some kind of like Anatomy null definitely has some kind of anatomy knowledge but then also like
some kind of Interest too yeah and like he would want that kidney for something exactly because that's because I'm like
okay so did he know that she had a kidney problem or when he opened her up because he has this Medical knowledge
then he realized she did and he just wanted that kidney and it's like where is the light coming from how are you
seeing this [ __ ] how are you finding that [ __ ] kidney in her body in a matter of under 15
minutes and the only thing that you can think of is a lantern but like but nobody saw anybody with a lantern and is
he holding the lantern in one hand while also using or is he placing it somewhere
like she this is done on the ground obviously so is that why he well he does the windpipe thing to
silence them but also to like kill them quickly maybe to put their his Lantern on them question mark I don't know
that's possibly are fetched but it's just like what the [ __ ] is this guy he has to have some light there's no way
that he's doing this without like oh hell no so what what would be a light source back then other than Elena just a
lantern right that's all you would have or like a match which like that doesn't make that makes even less sense yeah so
it's like what the [ __ ] like was he he must have just placed it down on her or
on next to her right but that's not even a lot of light like that's a a lot of work to do in very dim light and very
quickly well in this I was just gonna say the speed at which he did it would make you think that he's somebody who's
done this for a while and that he the the thing is it's like he went in there with a with a plan he went in
there looking for a kidney it seems to me because it's like I don't think he's just opening up and being like because
he's gonna be the first thing that jumps out of you because again we said they're
closer to your back exactly through the front he's gonna have to like sorry but dig well no he that he is and it's also
in our it's in a capsule of its own it's not out there and like sliced and sliced
it open without you know and I I just don't think he would have just randomly dug in there
and somehow found the renal capsule and then decided to open it up and take a kidney no it doesn't make a lot of that
you don't have a lot of time he had to have been going in there with a plan I'm getting the kidney up so then we're back
too because I I had said maybe he just saw that her kidneys were messed up so no that wasn't I feel like he had a plan
that he was going in there for a kidney I feel I don't know why but he went in there for a reason there's I just don't
feel like the kidney would be the thing you'd rip out first it just doesn't but then it's like me
yeah like I'm I want to think that he must have known her medical history yeah but then
like like how did he know that she was going to be there when she was you know what I mean well that's the other was he
following her it's like but then you would think if he was following her that night and she did end up in jail he
probably would have given up and started walking home well then there's also the
fact that um there were a few Witnesses who said that John Kelly told them that he heard
that she was in jail that she had been arrested that night and he was like oh she'll be out by the morning
so he I word around town was that she had gotten arrested so maybe someone waited outside that jail for yeah
because I'm sorry was this close by the jail that's where she was discovered yeah
so she hadn't walked like crazy far because I think it was only like a few minute walk this is a [ __ ] stump I
kid it's there's so I it's because it's a fascinating case because her in particular I do feel like he knew her
earlier of her medical history but then it's also the case of like because the kidney thing is just weird he also
escalates each time that's the other that's the other reason I don't believe Elizabeth's stride is part of the series
and if she was then that was not his intention was just to do that right because if you look at it it goes from
you know Pauline um polymerian Nichols was the first one she was ravaged for sure but then Annie Chapman had the
intestines then we get to Catherine eddos who is ravaged and then the last one we're gonna get to is the crescendo
so to me it felt like it was like he was ratcheting it up a notch each time intentionally yeah and this was I don't
know but it's just really wild to me and like I said in all of these cases the mutilation is done postmortem he's
he kills them right away with that severed one pipe how quickly would they die from a severed windpipe very quickly
very quickly yeah like because you would just not be able to breathe okay so that
would and then uh like bleeding out because he would sever those carotid arteries and boom very exactly at least
at least they were not alive for any of the mutilation but during the examination they also found the apron
that she was wearing on top of everything that like one layer um it had been cut through with a knife
and part of it was missing like part of like there was a piece of fabric that wasn't there
so soon after this Constable Alfred long found the missing sliced apron piece on
ghoulston Street which was only about a 10 minute walk from the murder scene the
piece of apron also appeared to have blood on it but not just on it it appeared that someone had wiped blood
onto it possibly from a bloody knife oh like like he had maybe taken it and smeared like taking it to use to clean
the knife upon further inspection this is interesting and this points back to the anti-Semitism kind of thing that was
going on he found writing in chalk right next to where they found this apron like down a
passageway and it looked like it had been just written in chalk like very recently
um and it said and I quote the Jews are not the men that will be blamed for nothing
the Jews are not the men that will will be blamed for nothing which to me is someone trying to make it seem like to
blame it on Jewish people like this is somebody who's trying to make it look like a Jewish person wrote that like
we're not going to believe Elaine for anything yeah and it's just very what's and why I point this out is one to point
out the anti-Semitism that was going on here and how they were really trying to pin this on a Jewish person
um just for being Jewish like no other reason and regardless of who did this or what it meant it was evidence because it
was found right next to the apron and it seemed to be very recently put there right now A City detective Daniel Halsey
stayed with the writing and stated to the other officers unseen that he would remain there and he was like until it
gets lighter outside then we'll try to take a photograph of it because it's evidence no it rained it rained
stupidity is what it rained oh okay Sir Charles Warren showed up a little before
5 a.m and told them it had to be erased from the wall immediately because people
would see it and it would be dangerous for people and he was not willing to wait even less than an hour for light to
come he was like why can't you just keep people away from the area dude Halsey begged him to wait until late so they
could photograph it but before destroying it and he was like I'll stay here with it we can even cover it like
if you want like just we have to keep it here so we can get it in evidence like you can't just write it down we need
photograph of it yeah well and then like I mean handwriting analysis back then like I don't know but at least you could
like have him write that thing and look at it because as we'll see some letters come in later I know and so Sir Charles
Warren was like no they're gonna wreck this house they're gonna Riot no like we're not doing it now this was not a
house it was a like huge apartment building and this was in like a Stairway leading to the apartment building they
wouldn't have torn this place down no and even like in complete Jack the Ripper the rumbola one he says the same
thing he's like that was [ __ ] like that was a [ __ ] excuse for him to use and
so Halsey was like come on man and then Halsey and the other officer suggested why don't we just rub out the word Jews
on here so that it's not but you know it's not immediately igniting anything like why don't we rub that out or cover
it everything else stays we take a picture but please dude and he said absolutely not and in fact according to
the acting commissioner of the city police Major Smith he said that Sir Charles Warren erased the entire piece
of writing himself before they were able to get any picture of it don't know what that was about do you
only learn about him in criminal justice school because of this case or other cases as well there's so many other K
like you learn about like Bloody Sunday and you learn about like he was head of the you know the Metropolitan Police
Force he kind of turned it very militarized which was like a whole thing so not the best so it's like eek but by
this time acting ahead of the CID Robert Anderson Our Little Switzerland buddy who's on holiday does he come back he
does okay he was forced to return back to London from Paris where he had traveled to be closer during his doctor
mandated holiday and he literally landed in Paris the night of the double event oh [ __ ] so they were like you need to
come home and he was like oh [ __ ] so the Home Secretary told him I hold you solely responsible for solving these
murders hey guys he said and I quote I hold myself responsible to take all legitimate means to find him so he was
like I will do my best but I will do my best and in response to this because now
he's feeling a lot of pressure and he's feeling a lot of like oh [ __ ] Anderson
suggested that any sex worker found outside after midnight should be arrested or they should be told that
they will not be protected by police if they remain outside okay which I was like uh no luckily everyone was like
dude yeah chill I said just to be clear I was like okay okay like I wasn't like okay yeah great good idea no everybody
was like I think you need to go back on vacation like calm down you're like why why are we punishing the sex workers for
getting murdered for getting murdered are you joking right now but just to eat and get a roof over there like maybe we
could create some jobs for them but that didn't happen they were like no let's not do that no never
um so this is what it brings us to and this is where we'll end up kind of ending it on this episode I don't think
it's long enough the letters I'm going to briefly touch upon them in this part and then we will
talk about them more in the next one for some reason ever ever since I've known about Jack the Ripper which obviously
you like introduced me to this case I have always found the letters to be one of the most fascinating Parts they're
fascinating I mean like from hell that's come on like okay yeah because you tried
you tried now even back in the 1800s people were writing hoax letters and being dicks in the middle of a murder
investigation it was just we are people are always gonna people unfortunately those are always gonna troll the trolls
of back then but there are some letters very few that seemed like they have they
could be real so one that I think might be the real deal is the dear boss letter
yes now this was sent right before the double event right before it was sent before it it
was sent to the central news agency in London on September 28 1888 so this was two days before two or one day excuse me
one day before one day two day one day before this is like Drunk History it was dated on the letter September 25th like
he had written it on September 25th and the details make me think it could be real it was given to police by a
reporter Thomas John bowling so this is what it says Dear boss I keep on hearing
the police have caught me but they won't fix me just yet I just I have laughed when they look so clever and talk about
being on the right track that joke about leather apron gave me real fits I'm down
on [ __ ] and I shan't quit ripping them till I do get buckled Grand work the last job was I gave the lady no time to
squeal how can they catch me now I love my work and want to start again you will
soon hear of me with the funny little games I saved some of the proper red stuff in a ginger beer bottle over the
last job to write with but it went thick Like Glue and I can't use it red ink is
fit enough I hope ha ha the next job I and then this is where like I was like whoa the next job I do I shall clip the
lady's ears off and send them to police officers just for Jolly wouldn't you keep this letter till I do a bit more
work then give it out straight my knife is nice and sharp I want to get to work right away if I get a chance
good luck Yours Truly Jack the Ripper don't mind me giving the trade name wasn't good enough to post this before I
got all the red ink off my hands curse it no luck yet they say I am a doctor now haha
hmm he said I shall clip the lady's ears off and he clipped a lady's ear off he didn't he didn't send them but I don't
know if it's because he maybe he couldn't find time they were stuck in and here's another thing they were stuck
in her clothing they didn't find them until they it fell out of her clothes maybe he was searching for them and
couldn't find them and had to hurt people and had to get out of there before he could grab it but it's weird
to me that he cut her ear off yeah and this was written before that happened I think this one this one is definitely
real very weird and this letter was posted in the media because the police were desperate at the time I think it
would have been a lot better to hold this one close to the chest and see if another communication came in without
the Press involved but hey I'm not part of the metropolitan police force in 1888
proudly spoken you know Sir Charles Warren was he thought that this should be put in the
Press I just don't agree now another communication was sent posted October 1st 1888 8. so it was meant to seem like
it was written right after the double event like literally within 12 hours it was a postcard that looked like the
original letter but had what appeared to be blood smeared all over it this one said I was not codding dear boss when I
gave you the tip you'll hear about Saucy Jack's work tomorrow double event this time number one squealed a bit couldn't
finish straight off had not time to get ears for police thanks for keeping last letter back till I got to work again
Jack the Ripper what do you think about this one that one if it is truly sent the day after the
event then it I don't really know because it was posted in the in the media what this but like some of the
details right so they could have I think this one's like Saucy Jack I don't know about that one
he's like a silly guy when it comes when it comes to his writing I mean yeah he's
Saucy but like I don't know if he would refer to himself as Saucy Jack that one I don't feel interesting but I
don't feel completely I will just do it and it's it's the kind of thing where it's like I don't know because the event
it was already it was already there so it's hard to say it's really hard I could see it being him and I could also
see why it wouldn't be him exactly that one I feel like I'm like very in the middle I'm on the fence with that one
the deer boss one I feel pretty is pretty compelling the dear boss one I've always been like yes Jack I'm like I'm a
dear boss truther I think I like I feel pretty I feel pretty right and the letter that still captivates
those who read this case is definitely the from Hell letter yep it was a letter not received by the central news agency
instead this one was sent to the head of the White Chapel vigilance committee George Lusk
the letter was sent from hell and it contained part of a kidney I think that one was real
that one I'm gonna go with was real and we are going to talk about it in part three
part four oh part four part 65 whichever one we are on we hope we're gonna cover it yeah we're
gonna cover it on the next one and and I think we'll be done after the next part
I'm pretty sure I am not so sure all right get me out here all right folks we uh hope that you keep listening
and we hope you keep it weird but also whether you do an episode of Jack the Ripper that lasts 218 things two two at
hours and 18 minutes sorry I said 218. you sure did you sure did [Music]

Jack the Ripper Part three will cover what is known as, “the double event.” Both Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes were found killed on this September night. Both women shared a lot in common with the previous two victims. They’d struggled through pretty much their entire lives just to make ends meet and then were met with this as their end. In this part we’ll start to entertain the theory that Jack perhaps had some kind of medical background and you’ll see just why one might think so once you dive into the episode! Hold onto your butts!

Check out these great books on the case:

Jack the Ripper and The Case For Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect by Robert House

The Complete Jack the Ripper by Donald Rumbelow

The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper by Hallie Rubenhold

The Hidden Lives of Jack the Ripper's Victims by Robert Hume

The Ripper Code by Thomas Toughill

Jack the Ripper: Scotland Yard Investigates by Stewart Evans & Donald Rumbelow

Jack the Ripper: The definitive Casebook by Richard Whittington-Eagan

Also check out these sites on the case:

JackTheRipper.org

Casebook: Jack The Ripper

History blog mentioned in the episode:

The History Girls

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Brief Summary

The episode details the Jack the Ripper double event, focusing on victims Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes, and discusses their lives and the infamous letters from the killer.

Key points

Upcoming Horrific Details. Ash hints at the disturbing details to come in the Jack the Ripper series.
The Discovery of Elizabeth Stride. Lewis Diem Schultz discovers a woman with her throat violently slashed in a dark courtyard.
Elizabeth Stride's Life. Elizabeth Stride, known for her jovial nature, faced hardships leading to her tragic fate.
Long Liz's Journey Begins. Elizabeth, known as Long Liz, navigates life in the East End, taking on various jobs.
A Toxic Relationship. Elizabeth's relationship with Michael Kidney becomes abusive, leading her back to sex work.
A Disturbing Incident. Israel Schwartz witnesses a man assaulting a woman in the street.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is gonna get rougher and rougher from here on out.

Ash warns about the upcoming content.

7:28WatchJan 3, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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