H.H. Holmes, Part 5 | Morbid | Forensic Files

hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morid it is the conclusion
to HH hes goodness that wasn't as epic as I thought it would sound I thought you
sounded epic that's why I said oh my goodness yeah we're finally at the conclusion here it's a doozy but don't
worry CU in the end this man gets what's coming to him hell [ __ ] yeah he does gets what's coming to him so when we
we're going to get right into it cuz this is a long one and I'm ready to go [ __ ] off about Jack the Ripper and
the dear boss letter again so let's go let's let's go down that path all over again go right down that path again so
I'm just going to catch you up really quick so this man has now killed Benjamin pitel and his
kids all them at least three of his kids he's definitely going to kill the lady he has sent their mother slfe around the
nation in Canada on a wild goose chase thinking her husband is alive all the while detective Gary from the insurance
company he defrauded with the murder of his supposed friend and business part partner has hired the Pinkerton
detective agency to help track him they are hot on his tail now and he has left Canada and come back to the States
they're going in where they are looking for him I'm not sure why he made that move but like glad he did yeah that was
stupid I'm really excited for the Pinkerton of it all I also really like saying Pinkerton Pinkerton you know yeah
I know but before we get into this whole thing we are going to quickly touch upon
why people think he's Jack the Ripper oh my goodness we're going to get that right out of the way right up front so
we can dive back into the story and finish it off with his execution because that's proper of course you that's the
way we do it it's the proper This Is How We Do It dos dos is house so let's talk about the theories
about him being Jack the Ripper let us they mostly so he has um an ancestor named Jeff mudget remember his name is
her Herman Webster mudget how could I forget uh Jeff is like his great great great great grandson you know like one
of those I'm not exact removed or something yeah and he firmly believes that HH Holmes is Jack H well you are
you're all over me right now I'm sorry I love you firmly believes that AJ Jes is Jack
the Ripper they are the same person he the the grandson yeah the great great great great grandson um he I mean he
he's a former attorney like he's a credible human like so far I have not seen him I have not seen anything about
him doing like anything you know nefarious bad or nefarious where you'd be like why are we believing this man um
but you know I don't know if I agree I'm not here to say for sure because I don't
know you don't know we don't know he doesn't know and I and I commend him for nobody knows there you go she literally
put up a finger to make me stop talking to say that I want you all to know that uh she said oh wait I didn't want the
moment to pass sometimes I I don't put up a finger to stop you and the moment passes yeah you know I get it yeah now
he presented a ton of evidence uh he did a TED Talk in Vancouver I think it was [ __ ] he presented a bunch of exhibits a
lot of them are pretty interesting um that's as far as I think they are as interesting one of the things he
presented was a letter confirmed to be written by HH Holmes to his lawyer and it was near 19 or 1888 and he was
talking about how much he wanted to go to London okay so he expressed interest in going to London I too have done the
same yeah there is that now there's also the fact that Scotland Yard believed according to witness reports that Jack
the Ripper was about 5'7 you know somewhere in his late 20s early mid-30s they believed he was a doctor you know a
very average build Holmes was exactly 5'7 he was technically a doctor though you know yeah I feel like 57 is also
like kind of on the shorter side yeah I think it's just like it's all pretty like you know average like nothing
stands out to me it's like oh that's him also I know that like I witness accounts
are you know a thing they're tough and I know that's really all we have to go on
in the Jack the Ripper case for these kind of things for what he looks like no surveillance unfort everyone needs to
remember and I hammered this idea in when we did the Jack the Ripper case there was no
lights when I say there was no lights in White Chapel I mean there was no lights
I mean go outside stand in the middle of the forest that's probably kind of as dark as as it was it was probably darker
so like I don't know if we can really look at like oh that man was 5' s like I don't know well that's also just so
that's such a specific measurement very if you could say like oh he was like I'm
5'6 so he was between my height and like 5'9 I'd say yeah like you know and even
that I'm like 5'9 I don't know what someone who 5'9 looks like no but you know what some well um no never mind I'm
dumb like JN is like 63 6'4 I only compare things in in Heights of John like I literally will look at somebody
I'll be like well they're almost close to John's height so they're probably around like that's the only way I can
distinguish anything I do that exact same thing in my own home I was measuring an area to put like a a raised
bed and in my head I said that's probably two jobs I do the same that's amazing and
for height I'm always like that's about one and a half jobs I do that all the time whenever people
in the in the six feet apart times one John apart one John apart that's that's literally what I would do I like could
John lay between me and that person I'm good if they can't I better move back it
reminds me of in Gilmore Girls when uh I can bring it back there all the time always either that or Sabrina when Logan
is talking about like measuring distance through Crow pogs cuz that's like a Yale
thing it's like this many Crow pogs to this thing I'm like this many Js shut up Logan so yeah you know there's
that so like sure again presented in a way where it says you know you put them all together and what do you got you put
them all together and they all say 5' seven they say about this age they say about this height range this weight
wears like whatever he was a doctor and then you say hey HH Holmes happens to be
5 foot7 and of that average child weight and all that must be him you know what I'll give it to you it's there that that
is true so I will absolutely say that you can't really sure I mean a lot of other people are too but like sure HH
Holmes is uh Scotland Yard also put together and he really laid his hat on this one and a lot of people really lay
their hats on this one um Scotland Yard put together a composite of all 13 credible and corroborated eyewitness
accounts of Jack the Ripper and what he looked like but again no lights and again no lights uh they put it into one
photo like composited it into one human that photo first of all when I look at it I'm like I don't know about that I
don't know about that when you showed it to me I I wasn't there in 18 I'm not there but I I too don't know about that
you you said in one of these that like people have 1800s faces like old time me faces that was not an old timey face
that man is from 2013 at the earliest it just did not speak to me but besides that because obviously you would look at
that and say well who gives a [ __ ] what you think this is reality right so that
photo when compared to HH Holmes's photo people think it's a great comparison okay and to which I say nah what because
I don't think it's a good comparison at all in my opinion um the lip bothers me a lot he has a very full bottom lip AJ
tomes' bottom lip was notably Fuller in fact it was something people talked about with him it was a distinguishing
characteristic to him that his bottom lip was a full bot bottom lip filler Queen filler Queen HH choles but Jack
the Ripper that composite photo of what he's supposed to looked like he has no lips and he certainly doesn't have a
full bottom lip and I'm telling you if we are if we are close enough and we are able to describe enough to say he is 5
fo s he is of this age he of this weight he has a mustache he has high cheekbones they would have seen that
full lip that would have been one of the things you would have heard in many of the descriptions was he had a full lip
and also wouldn't you think didn't he have like a special thing with his eyes AJ CH he had stubid Miss but that
wouldn't I don't think that would have really been relevant especially in the darkness back then because alra bid
misses is you can't uh really focus on someone oh okay okay it's like um it's really just a focusing thing got like
one eye might drift a little bit okay um so I don't know if anybody would have been close enough to him to see that
beside until they and they would have been dead yeah that makes sense but again and the other thing is that Holmes
had a very weak ass jawline yeah sucked like no jawline to be found at least in the photos that I've seen yeah shave
that beard and you're done for shave that and it's no good but the composite has a pretty strong jawline and it's
like that seems to be a and he has very high cheekbones I guess you could say holes does too but like again they're
not very I don't really I wouldn't sit there and be like wow look at those cheekbones you know I think he kind of
looks a little bit like a Bassin Hound he does a little bit a little droopy um and then there's the medical knowledge
thing we all know that medical knowledge is a hot debate when it comes to Jack the Ripper some people believe
wholeheartedly he had to have been a doctor or at least in the medical field other people believe by no means is that
even something we should be looking at and then there are other people who sit in the middle and they say I don't know
it could be that or he could have been a a butcher at the time because they had similar knowledge that's you that is me
um I'm on the side like I said I sit in that middle area but I would lean more towards he had at least some medical
knowledge but Theory surrounding homes being one and the same with Jack say that maybe Jack's crimes were actually
the beginning of Holmes's murderous career and he evolved into the homes that we know now I don't understand this
on any level and I've read a lot of these theories about this particular like issue here that like he must have
started as Jack the Ripper and then evolved into homes I don't get that like Jack was very
methodical from the jump was he Reckless sometimes yeah absolutely but he always
seemed to have a plan well that's what I was going to say even in his recklessness it's it was still slightly
organized yeah like it was Reckless the way he went about it but there was a plan in place and it's like he had he
like escalated as he went so to think this would have been homes's Beginnings make absolutely no sense to me it makes
sense to go the other way way around that right because Jack's murders were [ __ ] horrific like they you don't
start there and then end on poisoning people with gas no you would think that you would like work your way up to yeah
it doesn't make any sense to me and then people talk about the traveling like it
was pretty you know people could travel by boat pretty easily back then if you had the money to do it you find the ship
manifest I cannot find the ship manifest exist there are ship manifests allegedly
they are cited a lot but I can't find them that say a man named Holmes traveled from the US to London during
the time period that Jack was active this was also during the time period in 1988 early 1989 where you can't find
evidence of homes in Chicago or in the United States so that is an interesting things little hairy is weird that you
can't find a lot of evidence or a lot of stuff going on about him during that time in the United States I will give
that Credence at least but at the same time he was always running around everywhere so he could have even been in
Canada that's the things and he could have been using one of his like hund like his 40 aliases you know what I mean
exactly that they just actually didn't pick up on Holmes was also a very common name at the time that's probably why
Holmes chose it I think it still is so he could blend in with others be confused with others and that would
allow him to get by with all his schemes but the fact that there was a homes on a
ship to London while very compelling when you put it next to other things or if you want you know you're looking for
confirmation bias and you you want to confirm your theory I understand that's compelling I'm not throwing it away by
any means but I just don't think it proves anything really yeah I think it proves that there was a homes on that
ship but there was a lot of homes this so be any homes again the time period intriguing very intriguing the fact that
we can't find a lot about homes during that this small period of time intriguing but whatever and now we're
going to get to the thing that pisses me off the most uh one of the things that a
lot of people use um and Jeff mudget uses and again I'm not like Jeff mudget might be 100% right I am not saying he
is wrong I'm just saying I don't personally agree with this especially this one piece of the puzzle uh they
people like to look at the dear boss letter the Jack the Ripper dear boss letter
and handwriting analysis said that this letter was likely written by an American
because boss was not a um heavily used term slang term in England at the time it was used but it was used more on
America I was going to say maybe they just went abroad and thought they were fancy when they got back to London they
were like boss ex and they think it was written by the same person who wrote things that belonged to homes they
compared some of the handwriting analysis again I saw the comparisons I'm not wowed by the comp comparisons no
when you showed them to me I I wasn't either but they claimed that the handwriting analysis said that it was
like a 97% match or something wild if it is that's fascinating but I'm my eyes don't work right it's also cive and a
lot of people at that time period learned how to write cursive in a very similar manner yeah that's the thing now
I'm going to read you cuz we cuz I think we need to take a little trip back to the dear boss letter for a second cuz I
have a lot of reasons why this doesn't make sense that it was a CHS okay so the dear boss letter was this I'll read it
to you dear boss I keep on hearing the police have caught me but they won't fix me just yet I I've laughed when they
look so clever and talk about being on the right track that joke about leather apron gives me real fits I'm down on
hores and shant quit ripping them till I do get buckled Grand work the last job was I gave the lady no time to squeal
how can they catch me now I love my work and want to start again you will soon hear of me with my funny little games I
save some the proper red stuff in a ginger beer bottle over the last job to write with but it went thick Like Glue
and I can't use it red ink is fit enough I hope haha the next job I do I shall clip the lady's ears off and send to the
police officers just for Jolly wouldn't you keep this letter till I do a bit more work then give it out straight my
knife is nice and sharp I want to get to work right away if I get a chance good luck Yours Truly Jack the Ripper don't
mind me giving the trade name wasn't good enough to post this before I got all the red ink off my hands curse it no
luck yet they say I'm a doctor now haha so many things uh so many things yeah I went over in the Jack the Ripper
episodes about how this is not Jack the Ripper I when you were saying it I was like wait a second cuz I thought that we
had determined it was not yeah it's not this is not Jack the Ripper this is the like you know going from like the my
last job my funny little game the tones don't match and then the whole blood thing the whole blood thing I'm going to
get to that don't worry but that's it's and him giving himself the nickname it's
just like no no so the dear boss letter when you first hear it it could feel real on
first glance and I get that I thought it was real on first glance be especially because of the ear thing the ear thing
it was so this letter was turned into police on September 29th which was our before the double event and the murder
of Katherine edos who had their ear clipped off but the central news agency claims they received the letter on
September 27th and waited until the day of the murders to turn it into police so
there's conflicting ideas about when this letter actually came in if it came in on the day that it happened the day
or days before the dates are a little muddy there and I don't think we can trust them and another thing George Sims
was a journalist who wrote a weekly uh column and was heavily into the investigation of the White Chapel
murders and he said the dear boss letter and postcard were sent to a news agency
and not a paper like not a newspaper and not the cops a news agency sells stories
to papers and news outlets it's a hub like that's where you spread the story or the news to other
sources MH wouldn't someone just send the letter directly to the paper or the actual investigators why would they
choose a news agency Who would know to even do that mm I can tell you who someone who a news agency and he wrote
George Sims wrote the fact that the self- postcard proclaimed assassin sent this imitation blood besmeared
communication to the central news opens up a wide field for Theory how many among you my dear readers would have hit
upon the idea of the central news as a receptacle for your confidence you might have sent your joke to the telegraph the
times any morning or any evening paper but I will lay long odds that it would never have occurred to communicate with
a press agency curious is it not that this Maniac makes his communication to an agency which serves the entire press
it is an idea which might occur to a press man perhaps and even then it would probably only occur to someone connected
with the editorial Department of a newspaper someone who knew what the central news was and the place it filled
in its business of news Supply this proceeding on Jack's part part betrays an inner knowledge of the newspaper
world which is certainly surprising everything therefore points to the fact that the jist is professionally
connected with the press and if he is telling the truth and not fooling us then we brought are brought face to face
with the fact that the White Chapel murders have been committed by a practical journalist perhaps even a real
life editor which is absurd and at that I think I will leave it so he's like nah
by it's a very very valid point that is this 100% betrayed somebody with an inner idea of how the press and news
work and honestly in White Chapel especially at the time the lay person did not know that that was not something
that people were just going to know on the streets that postcard was also talking like it was sent before the
double event like I said but it was actually postmarked over 24 hours after it was done yeah so the ear thing it was
postmarked after that happened could have already known so it seems like whoever sent it tried to make it look
like it was before but that post mark betrays it mhm and again the dates are all confusing so that postmark is the
only real thing you can go off of and if you look at it it's after the double event fake news now also the coagulated
blood in the ginger bottle that's the whole thing that I'm like goes up my butt this is a medically minded person
HH Holmes is a medically minded person the real killer would not be shocked that blood coagulated in a ginger bottle
and it would obviously that would would be coagulated by the time you sat down to write that stupid [ __ ] letter if
you were keeping it from there it would be jelly in minutes and the real killer would know that and Holmes would also
know that regardless of his knowledge of medicine he did graduate from medical school he's done a [ __ ] ton of stuff he
knows what blood does he's seen it it's stupid so this letter WR in in in conclusion this is Fu stupid I just
broke for a second you you sure did in in in conion we just had to slap her real quick and she was like whoop okay
I'm back so his fake surprise and being like Oh I had to switch the red ink like
that's just over the top and dumb yeah like it's just not real one if we're claiming this is really Jack the Ripper
it doesn't even line up even if we don't know who that is we know he knows he's going to know what blood does he've seen
blood coagulate in front of him probably so it's really not shocking and then if
you're claiming this guy is HH Holmes who even wrote this letter that doesn't make sense and then if you're saying
that HH Holmes is Jack the Ripper and that this letter is real I'm sorry I cannot get behind that it's a it's a
girl by moment It's a Girl by moment for me and then the last thing that makes me
crazy is if HH Holmes was in fact the committer of the White Chapel murders he was Jack the [ __ ]
Ripper when that guy got ex when he was he had an execution date he knew he was gone I am I am headed off I'm Shuffling
off this Mortal coil I know this he started being wild like that man started telling tall tales and started being
like I have killed 4,000 people like he was just that's crazy all he wanted was to see in the papers what a [ __ ]
fiend he was and how he was a monster and he'll go down in history and B he [ __ ] loved it cuz he knew he was
going to die anyway so he wanted his legacy to be that he was a [ __ ] fiend and then he would about it and pull it
back if he was Jack the Ripper you think he would have just neglected to put that
in there like you think he would have just like like come on I don't see it like he would have omitted the [ __ ]
White Chapel murders out of his legacy me thinks not I don't think so I think he would have been like guys you think
this was wild you should extradite me over to London cuz I did some [ __ ] there
I think he would just be like let's go and he would have been able to live longer yeah and he would have been able
to talk about it more he would have [ __ ] loved to talk about you think he would have done all that and then not
talked about it no no no it's just not realistic girl bye it's just not realistic I don't see it so I wish you
had a gavel if you believe we have something that can sounds like a gavel right did that hurt though no it didn't
uh but so if you believe that they are one in the same I support your your uh freedom of thought Al says you're wrong
uh but you're wrong and I'm right that's the way it is just Capricorn things so there's that I'm wrong you're right and
that's it I don't think people are going to think I'm such an [ __ ] um what's you I was gonna say
breaking news Elena is an [ __ ] uh so let's get back to uh Herman Webster mudget get it
yeah so I just had to get through that we had to talk about it it was the elephant in the the room all that good
stuff he's not Jack the Ripper so let's talk about him as he is so this man has now again killed a bunch of people he's
come back from Canada we got the detectives on his Trail and staying in Canada definitely would have been a
better idea yeah um since neither the the Pinkerton agents or detective Gary from Fidelity mutual why will it never
not be funny cuz every time I hear Ronnie and Ben goooo tell about Gary from below deck
see and I just love detective Gary from Fidelity mutual it's it is the equivalent to Jake from sa F really is
what are you wearing Gary from Fidelity mutual well the thing is the Pinkerton agents and detective Gary neither one of
them had Authority in Canada oh that's so he he might not have even been extradited like I'm sure Canada like we
know Canada and they would have been like girl we'll help you out like Canada's kind but like you don't know
that would have been pretty [ __ ] ballsy yeah but the agents did make their way up there because they knew
Canada was kind and that they could get them on their side they said I'm coming up but this time the uh the agents
arrived in Toronto and Holmes and Georgiana had already left and were on their way to meet Carrie pitel in
ogdenburg New York where they had told her for the hundredth time she would be meeting her husband ha that and the and
I'm what I'm assuming is the end of her life that's all she heard it's she was I the amount of times that she was
shuffled somewhere and then told her husband would be there and then they were like yeah just kidding kills me I
know it's so sad but when Holmes and Georgiana arrived in New York he immediately let Carrie know uhoh this is
too small of a town for us to arrange a meeting and he said everyone is attending to everyone's business here so
he said my God you can go to Burlington Vermont that's where he'll be oh I [ __ ] love Burlington Vermont yeah and
he said he said there you can Ben it's a nice place it is but you're not going to
see Ben he has shuffled her everywhere she's come from Canada down to New York again and he's like Vermont and that
also shows like how in love with her husband she was that she was willing to go all these places cuz you would think
at some point she'd be like what the [ __ ] The Jig Is up but the love for her husband clearly kept her going and she
thinks that her kids might be with him too so she's just like all hope right now Holmes at this point had written a
letter to his um brother in New Hampshire oh right saying that he had had amnesia for eight years the eight
years since they had seen him I forgot about that like oops I just forgot everything and I would love to come back
home and you know just see all the things that I haven't seen it's like the episode of Full House where Michelle
falls off the horse yes that was a very intense episode true but somewhere between Canada and where he ends up in
Boston later we'll see he had heard yep he had heard that he was being tailed I just pulled on my ear uh to be like he
had heard it felt like softball something but I was like he heard with his ears I was like is that
where he does have like pretty gnarly ears but he heard with those big ears that he was being tailed for murder in
Chicago that's people had figured [ __ ] out but he didn't know by who he didn't
know the pinkertons were involved and he didn't know detective Gary was involved
and he didn't know when he just heard this rumor so in the week that followed Holmes continued this whole [ __ ] he
told Carrie Benjamin's husband or wife and Desi their 16-year-old daughter because now there's Desi the 16-year-old
daughter and Wharton is like a baby those are the only two left right the other three have been murdered by Holmes
um so she he tells Carrie and Desi their 16-year-old daughter that Benjamin was alive and well and is now oh no he's up
in Montreal again told them he's back in Canada I don't even know what I would [ __ ] do
at that point I I think I would are exactly losing it and they said that he so she he claimed that he went back up
there because he didn't feel it was safe to be in the US he thought he was going
to get caught so he was like waiting to reunite with his family and then he told
them you won't even know him he has a new set of teeth and is all fixed up nice so you won't know him at all he's
very anxious to see you he's such an evil [ __ ] so [ __ ] like no one really knows why he was continuing the scheme
at this point cuz he was enjoying it he'd already claimed the money for the insurance payout and he killed the three
pitel children so there was really no reason to continue this he could have just abandoned her and left like other
than she she did know a lot that's true but he would have been like who's going to believe you like what they've already
paid out the insurance thing like it's I truly believe he was just having a lot of fun emotionally torturing this family
that's so [ __ ] I believe you yeah now on November 5th I believe you on November 5th Holmes left Carrie pitel in
Burlington and he took $1,000 from George Gana his wife and he traveled to gilmon New Hampshire where he was from
where CLA is where his son Robert is now remember that he had sent the letter to
his brother um and he said so when he did this he told Georgiana that he needed the ,000 because he was traveling
to Kingston for a business meeting with an Associate from Chicago so he's just lying all over the place like a rug and
he said it was going to be silly boring stuff you know it would be better if Georgiana stayed behind yeah of course
you should definitely stay behind just hang tight so off he goes and apparently everyone must have bought the Amnesia
story right like right off the bat according to the Boston Globe Clara showered her long-lost husband in kisses
thrilled to have discovered him to be alive oh my God now when I read that I said yeah huh like do we do we remember
how she would walk around that place with black eyes like are we she really that psyched to see this [ __ ] right
now according to Adam Selzer those newspaper accounts were probably very embellished fake [ __ ] meaning Clara and
Holmes had not seen each other in like forever and the last time they had seen each other he was violent and he was
shitty and neglectful of their children child and her and then there was like some other communication where he wrote
to her and wanted full custody exactly he treated her like [ __ ] mhm so I doubt
she was immediately just like oh my God yes she was probably like [ __ ] so it's
much more likely that he gave them a very selective rundown of what he'd been doing in the years that he bit away he
definitely explained the bigamy as Amnesia related having you know I forgot that I was married oh my God so he told
them he was married again yeah he was like oops I got married again they were like excuse me and according to Holmes
it was only in the last two or so months that something had happened to cause his
memory to come back so that's why he wanted to return to his life as Herman Webster mudget totally now it's funny
because he speaks about this time very strangely for him when he wrote about it okay it's like emotion filled
strangely um about his return to New Hampshire he said here many changes had taken place even my initials that have
been deeply cut into one of the large Elm trees that grow so slowly had become obliterated this touched me deeply
seeming so much in keeping with what had been in reality had what had in reality occurred
to the name itself so he's saying like my name had been obliterated in reality and it was obliterated on that tree and
like that's a very like deep that is like this [ __ ] is getting nostalgic yeah it's like an
introspective way of speaking about it which is not very of him I would say or at least he usually does it falsely and
that seemed a little more real like I who I was and like I'm like but then you just continue to it's very weird no one
get could stop at that point I think yeah no one gets this though I don't get it he probably doesn't get it that much
maybe I think there is like something about going home you know like I think that made him introspective must have
and what's weird though too is no one knows why he really went back to New Hampshire do you think he loved his
parents I don't know or like it's not love but like whatever he felt don't know I really don't know I couldn't put
my finger on anything because nothing makes sense for him the only thing I can think of is that he like you were saying
he knows the the detectives are hot on his Trail for murder maybe he did just want to go home and say like have have a
couple more memories with his parents and Clara see that's [ __ ] weird or like he knew they were on his tail and
so he went back there and he was fully ready to become Herman Webster mudget again right and he was like maybe if I
leave Holmes behind I leave all these other aliases behind I leave Howard behind all this I'm Herman Webster
mudget I am my birth name like you know maybe that maybe this will keep me safe like they won't be able to track me and
if I convince everyone that I had Amnesia that nothing's happened in the eight years and we just start a new
right that maybe like I'll be able to avoid all this because maybe he was even planning on like the Amnesia story
selling it to himself over time truly you know yeah but then so we I said that and we said that and we're like that
makes a little sense we be say but he didn't stay long he left after only two days maybe he just couldn't take it on a
train for Boston no get out of here exactly but I'm like what were you doing like what was
was the plan that initially and you were like this isn't going to work maybe maybe like maybe you saw that [ __ ]
tree and you were like oh [ __ ] yeah change things maybe it gave him like maybe he was very introspective in that
moment he's like the name has been obliterated on the tree I can never come back to Herman Webster mudget so I just
need to like go forth I really am gone I really am HH ches the only thing I could
also think of so another thing like his child his first born was a son mhm and that was like [ __ ] huge
the day that so maybe he was like I must see my son one more time yeah I don't know cuz then remember he also wanted
the custody and we were like why did he want custody of his son like that doesn't make any sense it's very strange
I don't know it's very strange now before leaving New Hampshire after those two days Holmes sent a telegram to
Georgiana in New York you know his wife yeah telling her to meet him in Boston so before he even left he was already
like I'm out of here uh they met at a train station on November 13 and from there they checked into the Adams House
as Mr and Mrs hm Howell so he's right back to his own old [ __ ] the next day he checked them into a boarding
house in Boston because he was planning to stay longer now meanwhile unbeknown to homes detective Gary and the
Pinkerton followed him from New Hampshire to Boston once there they went straight to the Boston PD and spoke to
them about setting out to arrest homes for the Philadelphia insurance fraud unfortunately the Boston police Chief at
the time felt that the warrant from Philadelphia was not like super strong and he said I could probably get him but
I'm not going to be able to hold him with this okay so he was sicking ahead he was so Gary was like I got you and he
scrambled and got a second warrant from for Fort Worth Texas the one where Holmes was wanted for being a horse
thief and horse thevery is a big deal so this would strengthen the case to hold him in Boston I guess they could have
also tried to get a warrant from Chicago for the arson too but they didn't need to you would think that they would want
to I know November 17th 1894 Holmes left the boarding house to go for a nice little morning walk how'd that turn out
because he was so [ __ ] egotistical that he assumed that there was no way he was being tracked in Boston with his big
old mustache like everybody knows exactly you are [ __ ] what a Dumis and also if you were on the run and you had
committed all of those things don't you think the first [ __ ] thing You' do is shave your [ __ ] stupid mustache you
think that but he knew he knew under that there was nothing good I mean there usually isn't but while walking he was
suddenly and very quickly surrounded by three inspectors from the Boston police and one Pinkerton agent freeze
[ __ ] and they told him he was coming down to speak to them at the station I love it now at first Holmes
was like oh what what are you talking about acting shocked and very confused I've had Amnesia and he tried to talk
his way out of it like he always does but he quickly gave in when they were like we're not going away [ __ ] now
remember he had heard that he was being tailed and he had heard he was being tailed for murder in Chicago so at some
point he was like I I was figuring I was going to get caught at some point but he
assumed it was for murder and instead they're arresting him with a warrant for horse thievery so
when he goes to the station he's confronted by um another agent from Fidelity mutual named uh Forest Perry
see that's better Forest Perry from Fidelity mutual yeah it makes sense he confronts him for faking the death of
Benjamin pitel and he was like like oh good yeah absolutely so he like I'm technically not up for murder okay so he
just confessed he was like okay so he said quote um went to Philadelphia with pitel rented the house on callow Hill
Street and fitted it up with for both a bachelor's headquarters and a business office then stated that he went on to
New York where he met an old medical friend of his through him he obtained a body which would answer in every
description that of BF pitel the preparation of the body by burning one side with Benzene or other ignitable
fluid followed and the old clay pipe was placed dangerously near it so as to suggest a terrific explosion so he
admitted everything except for murdering Benjamin pitel he said oh no no we put a
a person there in his place but that person was already dead we're just we're just frauding Insurance that's all like
no murders here we just knew of a dead body locally yeah and he also said he was part of a band of conspirators that
included Benjamin himself and Carrie pitel and which I mean he kind of was and in
his first confession to Deputy superintendent hansum of the Boston police and John Cornish of the Pinkerton
detective agency he claimed that Benjamin pitel was still very much alive he said quote well I last saw him in
Detroit in the neighborhood of three weeks ago and he said he accompanied the children for a short time and then was
to hand them over to their father in Cincinnati that was the plan MH but when they got there he said pel had started
drinking heavily again and he just wasn't comfortable leaving the children with him wow this man wow this man who
had gassed those children to death this man is claiming their father who he murdered was such a was such an
alcoholic that he didn't feel comfortable leaving those children with him wow and he gassed those girls in a
trunk wow yeah and poisoned he lied about it yeah he poisoned them so a he said he had some discussions
with Benjamin and then he said he and Benjamin quote compromised there so he took one of them and I took the other
two to Chicago because I had business there you can have one I think you can handle one in your drunken super just
one just the boy but I'll take the others and he said thinking that it would not call anyone's attention so
quick if he traveled with the boy alone as if there were three what sense thank you for saying the exact like what yeah
exactly holes probably Ed his confession would like pretty much answer all the lingering questions they had I mean he
he did the thing that really stupid murderers do where he prepares an answer for every single question that could
come up but it's so hyper prepared and rehears that you're like that's not possibly have all these answers right
but he thought it was going to make up you know people are going to Now understand his International and
Interstate travels like all that but I think he finally overestimated his abilities to [ __ ] around and not find
out because within a day of his confession they' moved a fresh body in a trunk from
New York to Philadelphia and the coroner pointed out that the body in the apartment had been laid out flat which
would have been which wouldn't have been possible if the man had been dead for some time so they did a little
experiment yeah they did where they said okay so you brought that body from here
to here in a trunk you said that body that was supposed to be Benjamin pel's like double okay how'd you lay it flat
how'd you do that like that doesn't make any sense and that's just such a classic
like well I thought I was smarter and they also said they said first of all it wouldn't have laid flat if it was in
like any position and they said definitely not if it was in a trunk for a long period of time right and they
said it would have shown marks of where it had been doubled up uhhuh so no such marks were on the body and holm's
confession didn't hold up under any of this of course he couldn't explain any of this of course not yeah so
investigators immediately said that b the body found was really that of P C and not of someone else so the claim of
such a like this was truly a like gruesome insurance fraud scheme even if you take away the murder like it's just
gruesome no matter what so headlines were going crazy and within days it was blowing up all over the place after just
two days of being arrested in Boston Pinkerton agents arrested Carrie pitel in Burlington Vermont she was probably
like what the [ __ ] and then she was just there waiting for Benjamin of course yeah she was brought to Boston and she
was interrogated by hansam and Cornish the P the Boston cop and the Pinkerton detective and she wasn't super
forthcoming unfortunately well she was probably scared she sure was like you said she was involved in a scheme and
she was trying to protect her husband who she still believed was alive so she lied and denied any knowledge of a fraud
scheme which only made her look more complic than she complicit than she even was in reality based on all this and
Holmes's confession detectives confirmed that they believed quote the missing man
Benjamin pitel is dead and that he met his death at the hands of homes so although she may have had some knowledge
of the scheme to defraud the insurance company detectives were pretty sure pretty quick that Carrie pitel didn't
play a part in the actual crime okay um they said she probably only knew of the Swindle after her husband was supposed
to be dead Y and police were pretty confident that she definitely wasn't directly involved in it she hadn't had
her hands in it but they said there is someone else who seems to have their hands in this jeepa how the lawyer oh my
God I forgot about jeepta that nefarious unscrupulous lawyer is it jeepta how or Jeep dah how no it's jeepa
how gotcha um he was arrested at his home in St Louis St Louis um on November 20th and the warrant charged him with
being a fugitive from Justice wolf he released a statement saying I do not believe that a fraud has been committed
I believe the body identified by pel's 15-year-old daughter was that of her father the marks of identification were
perfect as to how pelm his death I cannot say but if a fraud has been committed I'm anxious to have it
investigated liar liar pants on fire and his immediately arson was another charge
because his pants lit right on fire yep um on November 19th a Philadelphia Grand
jurry indicted Holmes and how for cons iracy to cheat and defraud the Fidelity mutual company you don't want to be
doing that the indictment also added a third conspirator onto it Charles A pitel who's that again who that is is no
one investigators made an oopsie who that is is no one and Charles aitel girl has no
name it's just one of Benjamin's aliases so so they didn't realize that yet and they literally indicted a dead man's
Alias for his own murder wolf.com I just love who that is is no one so there's that there's the that of it all so
there's that the following day they were extradited to Philadelphia to stand trial so Holmes killed Benjamin pitel so
that meant correct he couldn't have left the three missing children with their father no so now the question became
where the kid where the [ __ ] are Alice Nelly and Howard pitel yeah so the missing pitel
children are definitely like top priority right now but now they're also looking into like the Nationwide crime
spree like an international crime spree that was shocking them at this point in Chicago a bunch of people came forward
and identified Holmes as a man they'd once known by many other names before he had run out on them before paying for
anything that he had put on credit and in Texas people stly suddenly started connecting their loved ones Minnie and
Nanny Williams with this man and were stressing the [ __ ] out they they were like something terrible has happened
here and in the time since she' gone missing several private detectives were sent from CH Texas to Chicago in search
of Nanny Williams Because her trunk had sat unclaimed at the Wells Fargo office for months and then was returned to her
aunt so in Texas which shocked them all and none of them could get a hold of her
the Chicago Tribune reported it is certain Nanny Williams did come to Chicago but whether she was murdered is
a point that can only be cleared up when her sister Minnie is brought to light by
the time SES reached Philadelphia on the 21st of November he started talking about mini too because they were
bringing her up right according to the Philadelphia police detective Thomas Crawford one of the uh somebody who was
transporting homes from Boston to Philadelphia talk he said he talked a lot I was just going to say imagine
being that guy oh my God and you just have to hear him he's told the bizarre story about um Nanny Williams like how
she had died he told like several different stories about that and under hypnosis Crawford this police detective
relayed the story that he had heard from homes oh that's crazy yeah he said he went to CH Chicago with his first wife
and there fell in with a young typewriter named Minnie Williams for whom he secured furnished apartment
the girl was often visited by her elder sister the younger however was jealous of Holmes and one day knocked her on the
head and killed her when Holmes returned and found the dead body in the rooms he
took it and put it in a trunk together with a lot of stones and sank it in the lake the younger sister having property
in Texas he and pel took the property off her hands and furnished her with money to go to Europe where she is now
nope so again claiming that Minnie was jealous of Nanny and and homes killed Nanny and a jealous rage by beating her
over the head with a stool leaving her in the bed then helped holes put her in the trunk sink her to the bottom of the
lake and then he she signed over the deed to the Texas properties to homes in pitel and then they gave her a little
money and off she went to Europe to live out the rest of her days that's what he's claiming the story he spun about
Millie Minnie killing her sister at a jealous rage just like was not anything anybody was going to believe it wasn't
hdden with anyone which is good cuz that's also so [ __ ] that he killed the both of them and was like the young one
was just jealous of the older one so he she beat her with a stool and this was also further cemented in by the hordes
of people who after he was arrested wanted to tell reporters about their interactions with homes many of them had
met holes and Minnie Williams in Chicago but the problem was that they both they
were known as different names and in some cases the women they thought was Minnie Williams was actually Georgiana
yolks oh [ __ ] but he was like introducing her saying this is Minnie and she was like yeah it's me Minnie he
also had another known associate named Kate derky who he didn't kill and he would it was also her sometimes that he
would say was mini the [ __ ] and and these women were just like yep it's me that's the thing like what now
eventually enough stories had come forward to allow investigators to conclude that Minnie was also missing
and had in fact not been seen by anyone since she was last spotted with her sister in Chicago in mid December
1893 now in the year that followed after this Holmes's story about Minnie and Nanny Williams changed a billion times
he never told the same story twice in some they're both alive they're both dead many had gone into hiding after
killing her sister but then sometimes he would say I'd only told that story for fun because this Crawford guy was super
gullible and I wanted to see if he'd he'd believe it but regardless of what he would say it was always that mini
killed her sister then fled to Chicago and he hadn't seen her since that was what he would like go back to always so
stupid so Holmes spent the winter of 1895 in jail and journalists were talking to anyone who had even come in
slight contact with him in his travels meanwhile detective Frank guire from the Philadelphia police had set out from
Philadelphia to track his movements before his arrest so that they could figure out maybe where they missing pit
cell children along his path by then investigators had learned a ton more about homes and they learned that he had
what like dozens and dozens of aliases at the time that he had moved from one hotel to the other to a boarding house
to renting house like they were learning all this [ __ ] as it's happening I'm just
picturing them connecting the red lines and just having the wall become a red line yes literally and now with all of
this they're trying to find these kids and it's becoming so complicated that it must have been so frustrating
and just like imagine how desperate they felt yes and Guy began retracing Holmes's steps and he's checking in with
every hotel along the way every boarding house every Alias he's falling up on just trying to find these kids must been
exhausting everyone now Holmes was no help and his stories were becoming more and more inconsistent they were changing
he would just lie he would pull it back but then in his possession they found a small tin and that small tin had a bunch
of letters that the children had written their mother Carrie pitel oh no and she
had written them too and he had never sent them and he had never given them her letters and using the dates and
locations reference in the letters guire was able to trace a pretty accurate route of homes his travels with the kids
from Indianapolis to Canada holy [ __ ] so they used those letters from the kids um
and in a town outside Cincinnati they talked to a bunch of like shopkeepers and they showed them a photograph of the
man identified as homes and they were like yep we know that guy and then they said he was traveling in the company of
a young boy who was later identified as Howard pitel got him well and also a hotel clerk in
Cincinnati identified hommes as the man who checked in with two girls but he didn't remember seeing a boy but
remember he killed Howard first MH in each new location guy would hear another story homes would
arrive with children rented a house or apartment for a really short period of time and then he would leave and go to
another one this story finally changed in July 1895 because guire traveled all the way
up to Toronto following the trail now he worked with the Toronto police force and
he uh they helped him Trace holes' steps all along the city along the way he got
more and more positive identifications from eyewitnesses um people would see homes Georgiana and
Nelly and Alice from hotel managers at the Walker house um where they said the girls were staying the Palmer House
where he stayed with Georgiana and through this investigation he finally learned that Holmes had in expressed
interest in buying or renting a house in several of the locations he was in in Toronto yep so he went around to every
real estate agent that he found in the area [ __ ] and like just asked if they Rec elected ever renting a house about
that time to a man who maybe only stayed there a few days and who represented that he wanted this house for his
widowed sister because that's the story he was hearing but the fact that he would only need it for a few days would
be so memorable exactly so after doing this only for a couple of days he finally found an agent who rented a
house on the outskirts of Toronto to a man who only stayed there for a little bit and matched the description so guire
and the Toronto detectives arrived at at this house and now an older couple was living there with their adult son oh God
so the detectives were like hey uh we have reason to believe that two young girls were murdered in this house and
their bodies might be buried somewhere on the property can we like look do you mind if we look God you imagine not
[ __ ] knock on your door well apparently the owners weren't like crazy shocked they go that accounts for that
pile of loose dirt under the main building you didn't want to call anybody about that Jesus Christ so the couple's
older son helped them and they got under the house and began digging but the space was really small and it was really
difficult to move around in so it was slow this process and eventually they had to stop because investigators
determined it was not a house rented by HH homes what so there was just some random loose dirt in their
house no that was not Co [ __ ] you now while guy was retracing Holmes's who whoa thr your pupsy across the room
chica I just said my Psy sliding across the desk you were playing like air hockey with it all the time I went to go
like move it cuz I thought it was falling off and then I almost made it fall off so you launched it so I
launched it into the sun now while guy was retracing all the movements in Canada Holmes was on trial in
Philadelphia for conspiring to defraud the Fidelity mutual life Association of $10,000 by producing a dead body and
representing it to be the corpse of Benjamin fpip so that that's what he's on to type all that uh Holmes plad
guilty to the fraud charges but when asked he said he would refuse to say to the district attorney or Philadelphia
investigators where those children were he was not going to tell them of course so they took him to County Prison now
several days went by guire is still up in Canada talking to every real estate agent ever and finally comes across
another one several days later and it was for a house on Vincent Street rented by a name matching and you might
remember that street I remember Vincent Street and the man who rented it matched
Holmes's description so on the morning of July 15th guire and his associates arrive at the house they speak to the
next door neighbor and the next door neighbor says yeah I saw Holmes's picture in the papers and he was
definitely the one who rented this house for his widowed sister mhm and the neighbor also said yeah I didn't get a
good look at the girls but he definitely had two girls with him I could and he said I won't identify them as the two
girls cuz I didn't get a good enough look but he said ah also before he left town like shortly before he asked me to
borrow a a shovel oh I forgot about that guy was like okay cool and so he went to
the owner of the house the one who rented it to homes and they positively identified homes as the man who' rented
it and they said by all means search that house no problem here so guy and the other detectives went into the
basement and it didn't take long before they found a spot of ground in the southwest corner of the room that was
definitely recently Disturbed they began digging like pretty easily it was moving
away and guy said and after going down about one foot a horrible stench arose so they were convinced this is it so guy
began digging with his hands like ripping out dirt and they were able to unearth a tomb they said the deeper we
dug the more horrible the odor became and when we reached the depth of 3 feet we discovered what appeared to be the
bone of the forearm of a human being thank god with the help of The Undertaker the local Undertaker BD
Humphrey BD Humphrey the local Undertaker he should be yeah absolutely no other career path I will not question
that ever BD Humphrey for life ever um guire and the detectives were able to unearth the two bodies in the basement
they were very decomposed and were actually a little bit injured from being exed as well cuz it was not like a a
very put together ex Exum but I'm glad that they were able to be located so that they could actually be
put to rest and they were able to be um put into two separate coffins which is good they weren't just dumped in one
thing that's good um yeah it's really sad but um with the B so badly decomposed that's going to be a problem
but enough that they were able to put two and two together um the children's remains were taken to the morg for
examination and guire sent um a telegram to the district attorney Grant letting him know that he should definitely
proceed with murder murder charges against HH holes yikes unfortunately the remains of Howard pitel the third child
were never discovered oh and people believe that he was probably scattered or buried on the property where he was
actually murdered oh that's terrible now after the bodies of Alice and Nelly were
uncovered Holmes's guilty plea in the fraud case became kind of a problem because the girls had been killed in
Canada so homes would need to be extradited to Toronto in order to stand trial for the murders and once he'd
learned of the discovery Holmes claimed he was traveling at the time that the girls were killed and he couldn't have
possibly done it which Georgiana verified I don't really like her yeah I'm not a fan now instead Holmes said
the pitel children were killed by a man named Hatch is that your Alter Ego he described this man as a mythical sort of
person and I'm like I'm sure he was mythical because he doesn't exist um in a very disreputable character Mr hatch
was apparently a friend of many Williams according to him isn't everybody and he'd reluctantly given the girls to this
man during a stop in Buffalo you wouldn't leave them with their father but you gave them to a random dis
reputable mythical man named Hatch yeah and he had instructed hatch to take them
with Minnie to Europe everybody's just hanging out in Europe going to Europe totally see he is
obsessed with Europe I will say that uh when superintendent of police Lyndon heard this statement he replied that man
Holmes is the most infernal liar I have ever been brought in contact with his willingness to plead guilty to the
charge of conspiracy led us to think that something must be back of the case so the discovery of the two bodies
pretty much confirmed to all the news outlets and the public that HH Holmes was definitely a multiple murderer at
the time it was not known as a serial killer MH within days of that Discovery newspapers went wild around the country
in Chicago investigators and citizens started digging around the rubble of the castle because remember it had burned
not all the way down but part of it had but they were thinking they would find bones of victims and they were going to
try to attack [ __ ] Chicago was looking for evidence of Minnie and Nanny's remains at the C at the castle and on
July 19th two detectives who were looking through the ashes that were technically used to be the basement um
they found an old stove and when they looked in the Firebox of the stove they discovered a quantity of charged um
charred human remains and a Watch chain forly owned and worn by many Williams wow so he had burned their bodies in the
stove that's terrible at the time of the whole crime spree and the arrest and all
that newspapers like especially like the Metropolitan papers were not held to like very high standards yeah I could
see that um there was a lot of competition among them they wanted to be the one with the most readers so this
would definitely lead to some leaning towards like tabloid kind of reporting um and they were a little bit more
willing to exaggerate and fabricate you know what's sad so many still around today do the same thing like how often
do you find fake [ __ ] when you're researching and you're like why does no other article say that yeah it's like
what now Holmes knew this and he almost was kind of like eager to play along with it of course he would give
outrageous statements contradictory statements like things that would like make him like the most bloodthirsty
ruthless killer leaving bodies all across the country like that's another reason why I don't think he would have
left out that he was Jack the Ripper I think this would have been the time he would have been like by the way you know
those crazy murders in White Chapel yeah seems like a big part to skip but a lot
of papers did operate the way they should on fact um but they would definitely still kind of like
sensationalize the whole thing cuzz how can you not when Julia and pearl Connor's disappearances were connected
to homes finally in the summer of 8 1895 the Chicago Chronicle had this to say have two more victims of murder been
added to the long list to Holmes's credit Mrs LL Connor and her daughter are now supposed to have been killed by
the swindler Holmes is said to have coerced the woman to deceive her husband and to Aid his General schemes of V
villainy Mrs Connor then lived with Holmes but they quarreled frequently and she threatened to expose him she
disappeared in the fall of 1893 with her daughter and friends believe that they have been removed by homes where the
woman could not possibly appear against him it's so factual but it's just the way they presented is very Sensational
yeah cuz like we don't know why he did it like we don't know that she threatened to expose him we don't know
any of that you added that in as like drama and how like how would you even prove that why would you write that if
you can't prove it like because it just sounds more like but meanwhile investigators in Philadelphia Toronto
and Chicago and every other city that Holmes had been spending a ton of time in they were connecting the dots between
unsolved crimes in their cities and this guy yep slowly unraveling this whole complex crime spree that he had been on
for eight years at this point it's [ __ ] wild soon there was a connection made between Holmes and emilene
srand um and they were able to attribute her disappearance to him investigators reporters had also been digging into
Holmes's personal history and that's where they learned about his fascination with dissection and chemistry and
obviously those personality traits added with the crimes it's a recipe for just a
wild Tale Now Holmes was indicted in early September 1895 for the murder of Benjamin pitel he entered a plea of not
guilty and when the judge asked how will you be tried Holmes said by God in my country which meant he want at a jury
trial mhm uh in the time between the indictment and the trial Holmes took a lot of advantage of the public he
manipulated the hell out of people I can see that in early October he published his own supposed autobiography entitled
Holmes's Own Story queue up Ashley Simpson exactly the book was an alleged chronological history of Holmes's life
all the way to incarceration it was just bizarre all the way through some of it's real for
sure do you think he was losing it at the end no I don't think he was losing it I think he was very much together I
think he was just a [ __ ] up human being I think he was enjoying it this is all he wanted was to be something right
now the trial began October 28th and from the start it was pretty clear that Holmes's defense attorneys were uh out
of their league in fact although they had previously agreed to the trial date set
by the judge when the day came his Council made quote one of the most desperate fights for postponement ever
witnessed in a criminal trial holy [ __ ] like I really have plans that day I can't do it I can't move my
meeting please screaming give me a r check damn it and it got so outrageous I guess that the judge apparently
threatens sanctions against the lawyers he said if they leave the court they will be punished as lawyers are punished
for Disobedience said cancel your [ __ ] plans we're doing a trial they weren't able to uh withdraw the case for
that day but they didn't technically have to participate either and they didn't oh no they just sat quietly and
let Holmes basically act as his own defense attorney they literally sat in the room and were
like I don't know what to say they were like we don't really know how to defend this man so uh if the real Slim Shady
would please stand up you know what that guy said sanctions that's the only reason I'm here so I'm just going to sit
here now in his opening statement district attorney George Graham laid out his case and he told the jury quote he
would prove that Holmes had killed each of the four pels who were not alive to be called as Witnesses and that he had
tried to kill the rest of them too he presented a very strong case he used a lot of witness testimony and anyone
surviving in the family those who had seen homes with Benjamin and the children before they all disappeared
they all came up to say something Holmes on the other hand just kind of like made
outrageous claims about the prosecutor attempting to prevent him from seeing his quote unquote wife Georgiana yeah it
was all very prevented performative it was not helpful for him at all Eugene Smith the man who'd gone to the patent
laboratory that day to speak about his inventions and ended up finding pel's body he was called to testify and on the
stands on the stand Holmes grilled him about Benjamin pel's drinking habits and other subjects that he couldn't know
anything about like he he didn't know him he's like I just know I had a patent he was so he sitting there grilling him
being like well he's a drinker you know that and he's like I literally don't know that I don't know this man I
thought his last name was Perry so like no I did not know this man I didn't actually even know his name and he's
asking him all these details and he's like my guy I don't know this man all I know of him is the couple of
conversations I would have with him and he was not drunk so like I cannot confirm that got nothing for you then
Holmes just demanded that all the witnesses be removed from the courtroom and the judge was like happen overruled
like he was literally just like uh no no so on the third day Holmes's second confession was read aloud for the jury
because remember he has like 85 and in this one he claimed that the body was Benjamin pitel but Benjamin pitel had
died as the result of suicide the confession was followed by what was likely the most damning testimony of the
trial it was given by Carrie and Desi pitel oh that must have been horrific she positively identified homes as the
man who conspired with her husband and dragged her around the nation in search of her children and she spent hours on
the stand and it was just like heartbreaking she identified the unsent letters found as being from her kids the
New York Harold reported quote her appearance spoke of deep poverty it was as if all her motion emotions were dead
she seemed incapable of suffering or feeling anym when she looked at homes she seemed not to even see him like she
was just I mean she had been through it at that point and then to have all those
[ __ ] letters to read when she lost all children I can't even fathom that and all of the letters were just like
why aren't you writing to us like and she's like they thought I wasn't writing to them that's like to know that they
were in Poison them against me at the end right they died thinking I wasn't I didn't care about them that poor woman I
don't know how she went on after she was a very powerful witness for the prosecution um and when they put her
against homes it definitely helped out as well after several days of testimony and tons of crazy media reports the
things that made holes such a successful criminal like such a successful killer and conman and frauder his ability to
lie confidently have no remorse and just so unbelievable amounts of chaos everywhere he went they were kind of
taking a toll on the jury like the jury was feeling it I could see that he had told so many versions of the same story
and he had made such a complicated and incoherent set of stories and lies that they were kind of just like uh at the
end of it like they don't even know what to think it must have been so hard to follow yeah so in the end they were much
more inclined to believe the prosecution than they were to believe his [ __ ] they were like I don't even know what to
do with this a like clean from beginning to end and they were like you're just bizarre I no like but you've confused me
and he probably seemed like a madman at that point oh yeah and on the final day of the case Graham presented his closing
arguments and he just wrapped up the evidence and all the testimony and Holmes in his defense attor or his whole
team they just had the same weak arguments you know the mysterious Strangers Like hatch taking the children
to Europe and Benjamin pitel committing suicide all of this was supposed to put in reasonable dep
it wasn't necessarily painting homes as innocent it was really just putting Reasonable Doubt and it wasn't even good
reasonable doubt they were just like I don't know I still think he's shitty so judges are supposed to remain pretty
impartial but how' that go but this judge pretty much let his opinion be known at the end I feel like they all
kind of do at the end yeah and he sent the jury out saying this I will say that it is such a remarkable story that it
proves the truth of the old saying that truth is Stranger Than Fiction for if the story which Mrs pitel told upon the
stand be true and there seems to be no reason to doubt it no novel that was ever written contains a story as
thrilling is that which was told here upon the stand concerning the manner in which this man lured her AC around the
country in a deceptive and fruitless hunt after her dead husband which is like awful at the end he should have
literally been like wait wa wait he should have Dro G you are now to dismiss right get out of here go go on
get go on so the jury returned to the courtroom at 900 p.m. that evening I know I said p.m. that evening that's
annoying uh I wasn't even going to yell at 9.m um I was just like they'd be working over time um this is what's
funny so they returned a verdict guilty yes and it was later learned that they spent all night in that jury room like
the The Liberation room they didn't come out until 9 p.m. but the jury actually had made their decision like right away
they walked they were like we're all thinking it and they were all like hell yeah and then they were like but you
know what we just needed to like keep up appearances and we also wanted to eat dinner n hours so we sat in there and
pretended it was this big long thing but they all knew damn they were just having
a pizza party he just had a pizza potty uh after the trial a lot of them said when they were asked by reporters what
convinced them of his guilt he said that he just seemed to know too much about how to kill a man with chloroform
that'll do it and it's like yeah yeah yeah I would say so now when this was read out loud Holmes was shocked well
because he's a narcissist he had spent his whole life conning manipulating lying and getting away with it and now
he's done done flaw on November 30th he went back to the courtroom for the sentencing phase and his defense
attorneys attempted to argue for a new trial date again that is that the only thing they argued for yeah they said
that Holmes had to act as his own defense for much of the trial and He was largely unpr prepared and it's like
that's you also were largely unprepared and judge Arnold overruled and he said it is not within the power of persons
accused to say when they will be willing to when they will be willing to be tried
or to defeat a trial by dilor dilatory motions and practices such as were resorted to in this case so he's like
[ __ ] off he's like I'm not giving you time to make a better case for yourself and so he said so he literally looked at
them went no and then he looked at home homes and said you will be hanged by the
neck until dead so bye uh Holmes's defense lawyers obviously went about the appeal process and they said they will
go to the highest court if necessary and then they said this is literally my favorite thing they said I shall enter
at once upon the preparation of papers for an appeal when I shall have them ready it is impossible to tell but no
time will be lost I love that like I will get those papers done to stop you from being killed I will do it at some
time but I cannot say when don't worry though I'm going to do it at some point hang tight no pun intended I will get
there I don't know when don't hold me to it like it's literally just like what that's like me a phone call you can't
say like next week like just give something don't overcommit they were literally like we are going to set about
at once doing that but I don't know when I'll finish so I think they were air signs think they they were like oh Works
yucky that door open I don't want a deadline no and they were like well your client's going to be hang though and
they were like I hope we get there in time but no I will not commit to that I kind of love it like wow don't ever
commit to anything no so the appeal did go through it finally came on February 3rd um and George Graham and Holmes's
defense team were in the S Supreme Court of Pennsylvania I'm surprised they were
like yeah we'll entertain this they made it so H's defense argued that a lot of the testimony used to convict Holmes and
this is quite a stretch I was like wow you guys did do your homework they pull musle they said that it came from his
wife Georgiana yoke which would make it privileged testimony that shouldn't have
been admissible in court but I I bet they found a couple rols this was very overruled by judge Arnold who said on
the ground that a prior marriage nullified the union between Holmes and yoke it wouldn't it does not not
privileged because they're not husband and wife I also love that he was like a prior Union I'm like how about several
prior unions it's just like o yeah you tried guess that bigamy came back to bite you my guy like that didn't help
does and after hearing arguments on both sides the court cided with the prosecution and said that Georgiana
quote did say that she had gone through a marriage ceremony with this man but she does not say that she is his wife
she merely says that she was imposed upon you know what I think she was was she was imposed she remains to be
imposed upon yeah girl so the Supreme Court decided to uphold the conviction of course and the death sentence and he
had no other appeals and a date of May 7th 1896 was set for his execution D in the meantime Holmes was now going um
away from the whole I Didn't Do It thing and he's now just enthusiastically embracing his villain role he's like you
know what I've officially entered my villain ARA he sure has and between his conviction and execution he
confessed to a ton of crimes including at least 100 more murders uh but not the Jack the Ripper ones he would he would
scale it I thank you that's the thing he's throwing that [ __ ] up to like 200 and something but he's not going to
include the White Chapel Noah no it doesn't make sense he later would scale it back but then he'd pump it up again
scale it back so you don't know just depending on like the direction of the wind and I guess a confession was
Commission mentioned by the Hurst Corporation in April 1896 titled the most awful story of modern times told by
the fiend in human shape I don't know if I would want to hear the most awful story told by the fiend who wrote it
that's a really good way of describing an [ __ ] though a fiend in human shape I I do like that I like that um he gave
detailed accounts in this confession of the murders of Julia and pearl Connor emiline srand Minnie and Nanny Williams
the whole pitel family um and then he added 18 more murders onto that which everybody was like oh [ __ ] okay he
really did that but unfortunately those other 18 are questionable because uh at least two of the people he claimed to
have murdered Kate derky and Robert leok they were still alive they were found to
be alive stop it and fine stop it so I knew it so this [ __ ] he was saying the murdered people are still
alive he was definitely going to claim the Jack the Ripper RS if it had ever been planted in his head hundo I tell
you right now if somebody came to him during this [ __ ] and said hey did you hear about that Jack the Ripper
murderers what do you think about it nobody knows who did it he would have been like that was me he would have
literally been like it me everybody he just didn't nobody planted that seed in his head yeah but Holmes was apparently
paid $7,500 for that confession and the [ __ ] was he going to do with the money he got sentenced to
hang girl you literally just said my next sentence Oh [ __ ] that was perfect no don't be sorry that was like right
here like that's why I was like thank you you literally just said exactly what I was going to we been doing that I
think that happened in one of the last episodes too or maybe the rewatcher that's been happening a lot lately it
has cuz literally my next thing was going to be why he chose to do that I don't know he was scheduled to die in a
month so I don't know what that money would have done for him but maybe it was kind of just like a [ __ ] you like here's
this money you can't spend yeah like okay I guess I'll just take it but then did georgana get it I don't think so cuz
she's not his real wife damn I hope I hope um what's the first one CLA Clara I hope she got it CL and
there's also Mera with Lucy Chicago they split it I hope like I hope it was like
the end of The Other Woman and they all went on vacation together they all went on vacation together I know um so the
other thing is Holmes is like very over the toop about his remorse in these confessions like he does show like very
theatrical remorse you know like laughable in a way so he might have been trying to salvage some kind of
empathetic reaction you know what I mean like I don't know okay I don't think so
though I think he just liked doing it yeah just like for the drama but on the morning of May 7th 1896 wait a second is
that today oh my God is it is that today today the 7th it's the eth oh okay and weird and weird and weird because I have
my next case that I'm covering May 7th uh plays a date in my case and I was like oh weird like I'm writing that a
couple days before ooh that's weird I literally wrote in my notes like weird I'm writing this a couple days before I
was writing this end part yesterday on and I didn't even realize that's weird that's really weird that's so [ __ ]
weird oh [ __ ] so it was like however many years from yesterday that yeah cuz I was writing my thing on May 6th and
the the May 7th thing came up and I was like oh [ __ ] tomorrow wow that's weird
weird tourist season is creepy chil I think it's tourist season anyway well on the morning of May 7th 1896 he was Tak
taken from his cell at the county prison and he was led to the Gallows goodbye he
denied denied denied now having killed Benjamin pitel and the children and he insisted he only ever killed two women
lies and I love that he's just like guys I just killed a couple women let's calm
down here up do we really think that this is necessary I just killed some women remove this tie from my neck it
was just a couple of broads just a couple of bronze everybody like oh my God uh when asked if he had anything to
say before he was going to hang oh what did this idiot said he said gentlemen of
course I have very few words to say in fact I would make no statement at this time except that by not speaking I would
appear to acquas in life and my execution I only want to say that the extent of my wrongdoings in taking human
life consisted in the deaths of two women they having died at my hands as a result of criminal operations I wish to
also State however so that there will be no misunderstanding Hereafter I am not guilty of taking the life of any of the
pitel family the three children or father Benjamin fitel of whose death I am now convicted and for which I am
today to be hanged that is all he ended that [ __ ] with that is all I would have been like that is
all no wrong that's all he he Miranda priestle it yep that's all that's all and then the hood was placed over his
head and the lever was pulled at 1012 a.m. the door open he dropped 5T oops that was to break his neck did not do
that oh karma's a [ __ ] huh Adam Seltzer writes there were contortions for a minute the body spun the legs Swang as
though he was trying to break the Rope the fingers opened and closed two Spectators fainted after a few minutes
the body settled [ __ ] ultimately 15 minutes would pass before the physician felt comfortable declaring him dead
wowza and then he wasn't cut down for another 15 minutes so he stayed in that new for 30 minutes
yep uh pretty gross and when he was removed from The Gallows they immediately put him into a coffin that
coffin was placed in cement which then had more cement poured over on top of it and it was placed in a vault at Holy
Cross Cemetery just outside of Philadelphia city limits why the [ __ ] would they bury him in Holy Cross
Cemetery it was his request for the cement to be poured over his coffin as well because he was worried that it
would be desecrated or things stolen after he was interred which I say oh the irony I think that's how you use that
word cuz he was 100% constantly stealing from the dead and using dead bodies and
desecrating Graves and [ __ ] up like and he's like I don't want that like he's literally like I know how this
works I don't want to be [ __ ] [ __ ] and they had to do it I can't believe he was buried in a [ __ ] Church Cemetery
yeah I'd be like he's the actual devil yeah before he was executed Carrie pel's lawyer Thomas fake I think it is um he
thought that when he died that he would leave a portion of his assets to the pitel family because he he was like I
thought he was going to leave Benjamin's stuff to her it's betting on a lot well
that's what I was like you think this man that killed several people including three of her children was like you know
what maybe I should leave for I'm like Thomas you ever play craps cuz I don't I I don't know if you'd be great
Thomas I don't think you should like crap you shouldn't enter a casino Thomas don't you a betting man you are not well
I'm feeling lucky today yeah like so once his body was placed in the vault the report the uh lawyer found out and
told the reporters I've been given to understand that Holmes died intestate which means died without a will in place
oh right although I did believe that he would leave a will devising the one-third interest in whatever estate he
had to Mrs pitel I fear now that he did not make provision for the Widow of the man he yesterday denied killing and
unless he had given instructions to his attorney as to the matter of restitution
I will have to proceed upon different lines which also just proves to you right there he's claiming he didn't kill
Benjamin and that he never would have hurt those kids and that he loves the pitel family why didn't he leave the
money to her yeah exactly so he frauded her that's like come on even in death yeah it's like no come on SO a few years
after his execution Georgiana yoke married a man by the name of Chapman and just kind of f it away I bet she did uh
yeah just whoop bye you know what though I I was saying things like oh I don't know about her but he was beating Clara
I'm sure he beating her as well and I should have thought of that no but it's I mean it's all very convoluted and you
don't know what's going on here but I exactly there was probably a lot of factors involved in here and that's why
I say you know what Georgiana bye yeah go live go live the rest of the life see you never just by go exist right uh
murder murder homes oh God I would change my last name in the beginning she was kind of like just backing his claims
of Innocence because I'm sure she didn't want to believe it and again was probably scared of him and after he died
she went back to teaching primary school in Minnesota uh she eventually became the principal of more than 33
unorganized schools which I'm not sure what that means Lucy the daughter followed in her mother's footsteps and
then together later the two of them became Red Cross supporters and volunteers during the first World War
hell yeah so good for them that's awesome after his arrest Clara mudget I love it we got like Clara
mudget homes Georgiana yeah and then Georgiana didn't get it so Clara mudget actually was able to avoid actually
speaking to the press or anything and lived out the rest of her life in Tilton and their son Robert left New Hampshire
and eventually became city manager of Orlando Florida until he died in 1956 wow yeah
not that long ago well it was but but like not in the grand scheme of things um and investigators and reporters have
always tried to link him to more crimes like you know unsolved murders more frauds cases all that they haven't
really been able to connect anything really like hard to him I feel like we can though I feel like we can I feel
like it's going to come we're going to hit more I feel like we don't know the extent of what he's done I could see
that I really feel that way I'm much more interested in the Jack the Ripper case and finding that out but I think
that this is also a very interesting one and I think if people really give it it's due diligence I think we could
learn more probably um but um in August of 1896 way back then the Murder Castle mysteriously caught fire again and it
burned to the ground interesting yep so it's gone and I think now there's like a
post office on its uh where it was before like park there or something I think it's a post office so I think it's
just like an innocuous post office sitting there the post office is the worst it is so it kind of like you know
what the Vibes are not great so there's that I wonder if there's any reports of it being haunted at all that was
actually the next thing I wanted to look into and I think I might look into it a
little bit to just be like yeah just be like a fun little like look back on it to see if anybody has any things about
it um but that is the tale of HH h Herman Webster mudget and now good job I'm going to
sleep 9 night good night Dam that was crazy shout out to you shout out to Dave yeah that was a complex shout out to Mya
and Clara shout out to them oofy shout out to them and poor Minnie and Nanny Williams I know and all the PO all of
them it's just really sad Pearl yeah feel bad for Carrie feel bad for everybody that [ __ ] is gone now I know
I wonder what ever happened to Carrie yeah I know didn't find anything she probably just she was probably get me
the hell out of here oh God but wow that was terrible in conclusion he is not Jack the Ripper that's wild um yeah so
you guys have been wanting that one for uh five years I'd say and I've been waiting for the time I just knew it was
going to be a a real deep dive so I wanted to give it the time it required yeah he was from New Hampshire right
yeah my um next case that is occurring is also in New Hampshire W that's weird weird and I didn't plan for that yeah
that's really weird and it's also kind of fun that he was caught in Boston cuz I was like bye [ __ ] I don't love that
our city was like that's true that's true I just don't like that he had his feet on my ground but and it was also
our city who was like that sounds great to arrest him I'm so I'm like fully down
with that but you're going to have to get me another warrant so I can keep that [ __ ] so we can extradite his ass
Boston just saying Boston was like M do your job okay be Town well as always folks we hope you
keep listening and we hope you keep it we but not so weird that you're like Elena and you have to revisit the dear
boss letter for another time and then you also have to cover this in five parts because wow she's so crazy guys
I'm probably going to revisit it again with some other case she says probably but she means
definitely [Music] forever Jessie and the Rippers yeah waa full circle bye-bye [Music]

In the final chapter of our coverage of H.H.Holmes, we talk about the theories connecting him to Jack the Ripper, his final days on the run and a trial and execution that has gone down in history.

Thank you to Dave White for research assistance.

References Boston Daily Globe. 1895. "At Burlington." Boston Daily Globe, August 8: 7.

—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.

—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.

—. 1895. "Hard and Selfish." Boston Daily Globe, August 7: 5.

—. 1894. "In the toils." Boston Daily Globe, November 18: 1.

—. 1895. "Mother's Love." Boston Daily Globe, August 6: 5.

Chicago Chronicle. 1895. "Tells of one crime." Chicago Chronicle, July 30: 2.

—. 1895. "Trail of the fiend." Chicago Chronicle, July 21: 1.

Chicago Tribune. 1894. "Spins his own web." Chacgo Tribune, November 22: 1.

—. 1895. "Holmes recognized in Toronto." Chcago Tribune, July 17: 12.

Daily Boston Globe. 1895. "Good Fisherman." Daily Boston Globe, August 9: 4.

Galveston Daily News. 1894. "Two Texas Girls." Galveston Daily News, November 22: 1. Geyer, Frank P. 1896. The Holmes-Pitezel Case: A History of the Greatest Crime of the Century and of the Search for the Missing Pitezel Children. Philadelphia, PA: Publishers' Union.

Kerns, Rebecca, Tiffany Lewis, and Cailtin McClure. 2012. Herman Webster Mudgett: Dr. H.H. Holmes or Beast of Chicago. Lecture, Radford, VA: Department of Psychology, Radford University.

Larson, Erik. 2003. Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America. New York, NY: Crown Publishers.

Mudgett, Herman W. 1895. Holmes' Own Story. Philadelphia, PA: Burke and McFetridge Company.

New York Times. 1895. "A boy Holmes' first victim." New York Times, July 31: 3.

—. 1896. "Appeal of murderer Holmes." New York Times, February 4: 8.

—. 1895. "Claims an alibi." New York Times, July 17: 1.

—. 1896. "Holmes cool to the end." New York Times, May 8: 1.

—. 1895. "Holmes enters a plea of guilty." New York Times, May 29: 1.

—. 1896. "Holmes in a ton of cement." New York Times, May 9: 1.

—. 1895. "Holmes sentenced to die." New York Times, December 1: 13.

—. 1894. "May be charged with murder." New York Times, November 19: 2.

—. 1895. "The Williams girls' fate." New York Times, July 21: 10.

Philadelphia Inquirer. 1894. "Cause of death a mystery." Philadelphia Inquirer, September 6: 6.

—. 1896. "Holmes' chronology." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 12: 18.

—. 1896. "Holmes Confesses 27 murders." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 26: 1.

Philadelphia Times. 1894. "All looking for Pitezel." Philadelphia Times, November 21: 1.

—. 1894. "Perry's Peculiar Death." Philadelphia Times, September 5: 3.

Selzer, Adam. 2017. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch. 1894. "Arrested Again." St. Louis Post-Dispatch, July 29: 8.

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Brief Summary

HH Holmes' criminal saga concludes with his capture, trial, and execution, while theories linking him to Jack the Ripper are examined.

Key points

The Pinkerton Agency Joins the Hunt. Detective Gary hires the Pinkerton agency to track down a murderer.
Theories Connecting Holmes and Ripper. Exploring theories that HH Holmes might be Jack the Ripper.
The Fake Letter. The postmark reveals the letter's true timeline, undermining its credibility.
Holmes' Manipulation. Holmes emotionally tortures his family while claiming his husband is alive.
The Arrest. Holmes is arrested for horse thievery, not murder, surprising him.
Gruesome Insurance Fraud Scheme. Holmes' confession leads to shocking discoveries about his crimes and the missing children.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I don't understand this on any level!

Frustration about the theory connecting Jack the Ripper and HH Holmes.

11:18WatchMay 23, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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