Body Barrel /// Part 1 /// Episode: 87 | Forensic Files

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talk some true crime. [Music] in 1985. Hunters found a large metal drum in Allentown's Bear Brook State
Park. Then in 2000, the second drum was found by Cody. In all, four unidentified
victims, a woman, two girls related to her, and another girl were found inside. >> The two three-year-old little girl that
looks like like a brick has been used to, you know, smash her head in. Retired New Hampshire State Police
Detective John Cody vividly remembers the moment when he stumbled upon a rusty metal drum. Two bodies stuffed inside.
>> I took my flashlight and looked in and you could see there was something white
inside the plastic bag. So I peeled back a little of the plastic bag and that's when you could see that there was bones
in there. and Lisa. That's why investigators want to come back here to search the very
same spot in the spring where the bodies of a woman and three girls were found. They're also hoping all this media
coverage will help bring their loved ones forward. [Music] November 10, 1985. There is this little
town in New Hampshire called Allenstown. And in 85, the population was less than
4,000 people. In Allentown, we have the Bearbrook State Park. So on that November day, there's two brothers.
They're out hunting. This, of course, would be deer hunting season. And they're on the outskirts of the
Bearbrook State Park. >> You say, "Of course, like like you're the best hunter in the world."
>> I'm I'm constantly scouting. >> He's an avid hunter, people. This is off of a wooded trail which is off of
Everwood Drive. These two brothers spot a bunch of trash and amongst the trash is a tarp. The tarp is covering
something. So under the tarp they discover a barrel and it's lying on its side. This is one of those big 55gallon
metal drums. You know, I've seen pictures of this site and the barrel appears to be like a dark blue or maybe
even a black color. I'm sure everyone's familiar with these types of barrels. And the barrel that the hunters find,
it's sealed. >> Yeah. And the two brothers, they decide that they're going to investigate. So,
of course, they open up the barrel. Inside, they find trash bags. And inside one of those trash bags, they find
remains. These are human remains. So, technically, this barrel is found on private property. On this property,
there had once been a camp store that had operated for the parkgoers of Bearbrook State Park. This was called
the Bearbrook Store, but this small store burned in July of 1983. So now it's just a shell of the store that
remained. So on this private property, basically the whole place kind of looks like a dump in my opinion. has been
described as having a small burnt building which is was the store, a mobile home, a camper, several broken
down vehicles, several barrels and appliances that were scattered on the grounds of this property. Back then, the
Allenstown Police Department was run by Chief Norm Connor. >> And like you said, this is a very small
community. >> Yeah, small population. And so, of course, the police department is very
small and they certainly are limited as far as investigative resources goes. So,
Chief Connor brings in the state police to assist in the investigation. Back then, this may sound crazy today, but
back then, New Hampshire didn't even have a medical examiner's office. So, the remains were flown to Maine to be
examined. Once in Maine, what they discovered in regards to the human remains in the barrel was that they were
actually two sets of remains stuffed into the barrel wrapped in these trash bags. We now know that we have the
remains of two females. We have the remains of an adult woman and a young girl. The girl probably not even old
enough to be like a teenager. They do the tough work and they put together a sketch of the woman and a
sketch of the girl. They released these sketches to the media and to the public in hopes that someone would recognize
these two and put names to these bodies. Obviously, when you have a victim or victims, usually you have means of
identifying the victim. Sometimes you'll find identifiers with the body, you know, like a photo ID, credit card,
driver's license, something with a name and or a face on it, >> or you have family, friends, or
neighbors that can identify a body. So you start by making an identification to the victims and then once you have that
established, you can start investigation by interviewing the persons in in the victim's inner circle,
>> right? >> Usually that will provide you with, you know, the victim's timeline. You know,
who who were they last with, where were they last seen, what were they doing the
day they went missing. >> Yeah. Or in this case, did they have a husband or a boyfriend or, you know,
they normally look at that first. >> Yeah. You know, what were they planning to do? Do they have any enemies?
Unfortunately, we have a situation here where we have no identifiers. We have decomposed remains.
>> So, you're left with creating and releasing sketches. >> Yeah. Yeah. A sketch that you don't even
know how clear the sketch is. And this is also before the the technology that they had where they take the DNA to
reconstruct, you know, like a a drawing or an image of the person. So without victim's names and knowing very little
about these people, we have no inner circle to interview. Hell, we have we have no circle at all basically.
>> Right. >> One possibility being here that the remains are related. Um that the grown
woman could be the mother of the girl that was found with her. That was certainly a possibility and something
that investigators were considering as they try to put names to these bodies. >> So they don't know who these people are
or who the victims are. So, you'd think at some point they'd have to start looking in that area for possible
missing persons >> and maybe trying to connect the dots that way. >> Yeah. And that's one thing that they
were able to cover a lot of ground on. They they were able to eliminate persons as not being the identities of the
bodies found, >> right? >> However, of course, they were unable to actually identify the bodies. The
investigative efforts did not lead to answers and eventually the two bodies were released for burial. the Allenstown
police chief Connor. He organized a graveside service complete with a priest and a minister because they didn't know
what religion these these people could be. >> Um so, you know, we got to I give a
little applause there to the police chief for doing right by the people that that were found these unknown victims.
>> Yeah. But they might not have wanted a priest or a pastor or anybody, >> of course, but they didn't want to be in
a barrel either. >> Right. Right. >> Um so the the two were buried. um together in a single steel casket. Uh
and this was kind of a wellthoughtout plan as far as their burial goes because the thought was that if they ever needed
to exume the bodies, this would make that whole process a lot easier, >> right? >> They were buried in St. John Baptist
Cemetery and it's a local uh a local company, the Epson Memorials Service. They donated donated a granite stone
complete with a carved rose and a picture of a woman and a child holding hands. The reading on the stone is
pretty vague because again not knowing who these people are, but but it starts off saying, "Here lies the mortal
remains known only to God of a woman and a girl." >> All right, so we we know it's a woman
and we know it's a girl, but what else do we know? Do we know anything? >> Okay, so both are female victims.
They're both found November 10th, 1985. And we will refer to the grown woman as victim number one. So in 1985, this is
what we can tell you about victim number one. She was a Caucasian female approximately 23 to 33 years of age. She
was approximately 5'4 to 5'7 in tall. >> She was about 120 to 140 lb. She had shoulder length brown hair and she has
had some dental work done. She had three fillings and she is missing some of her
teeth. Investigators believe that she had been bludgeoned to death. She is listed as UP number 2174 with the
Nameless organization. Now, we have the girl as well and we will call her victim
number two. She too is >> and and for people that don't know what Namos is. >> Uh Namos is an organization where they
they try to identify uh the the remains unknown remains that are found and they keep a big catalog of those and they can
be accessed by somewhat by the public but mainly it's for uh law >> enfor law enforcement resources.
>> Yeah. So like Jane Does and John Doe's. >> Mhm. So the girl we'll call her victim
number two. She too is a Caucasian female believed to be between the ages of 5 and 11. She would have been
somewhere in the area of 4'2 in maybe 4'4 in tall and weighing 65 to 85 lb. She too had brown hair. Uh this is
believed to be collar length hair. Uh she has both of her ears pierced with two piercings each. So double pierced
ears. and she is listed as UP number 2173 with Namus. So, both were believed to have been bludgeoned to death. Both
were dismembered and basically basically they're stuffed into this barrel and thrown out like trash.
The investigation, as far as the investigation goes, let's let's go through this.
>> Mhm. >> I believe and I think that that you'll agree with me that police really did try
everything that they could think of um at the time. So, in the beginning of this investigation, the New Hampshire
State Police started off by sifting through missing people cases from the 70s and the 80s. Right. Okay. But of
course, they were unable to identify these bodies. In 1986, the New Hampshire State Police, they get a strong lead,
and they actually believed that this lead was going to solve the case. So, this is when they suspected two missing
people named Grace Reeb and her 5-year-old daughter Gracie as being the unidentified bodies in the barrel,
>> which would fit with the ages of the victims that we have. >> Yeah, it was a very strong lead, but
unfortunately the dental records proved that the unidentified remains were not those of Grace and her daughter Gracie.
>> In 1985 with a small town, you know, you'd assume this would be big news. Well, yes, of course it was. And that's
one thing that they used to try to help gather leads regarding the the identities of these two people. Uh they
they received hundreds of leads. >> Uh and they distributed composite drawings of the victims throughout the
northeastern part of the United States and actually all the way up into Quebec, Canada. Several people in Allentown said
that the unidentified adult woman resembled someone who had left town with several children a few years ago, but
this this actually proved to be a dead end as well because later this woman was found alive in Arizona with her
children. >> You would assume that there'd be a lot of dead ends in this case. >> Yeah. And and one of one more that we
run into here is out of a lot of those leads that the New Hampshire State Police received, there was a lead about
a mother and a daughter who had vanished from an Indian reservation in Maine, not
only did the descriptions match the victims found in the barrel, but also the time of their disappearance seemed
to match up perfectly with this whole case. Uh but here is just another case where the mother and the daughter were
actually located alive and they were found to be living just in some other town in Maine.
>> Um so >> and you would assume at this maybe not assume but you know it's 1985 so it's
more likely that we would have these you know mothers that were taking their kids
to get away from a maybe abusive husband or something >> and and maybe just didn't want to be
found. And sometimes people have little to no ties to where they live at all, you know, and maybe someone goes and
takes a job elsewhere and decides to up and move with their children and they have no parents local to notify that
we've moved. >> Yeah. Or maybe you get like a really good offer to move to Parts Unknown and
do a podcast, a local podcast there and maybe jump ship, you know. >> Well, we are selling uh plots of land in
Parts Unknown and they are filling up fast, so make sure you reserve yours today. use promo code garage.
>> But I wanted I know that these were all kind of deadend leads here, but we wanted to include these because I didn't
want it to make it sound like, you know, the police couldn't identify these people, so they just kind of sat around.
It it wasn't that case at all. You know, they're they're pouring through missing
person's cases. They're checking the databases that are available at the time, and they're going out and
physically looking for these people to to determine if if they match up or not. and again receiving leads and following
up on these leads. So I I see a situation here where we have a police chief of a very small police department.
I think he does the right thing by immediately bringing in the state the New Hampshire State Police.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Always always a good thing. >> Bring bring Yeah. Exactly. Bring in
these people that have the resources that have the funding and have the manpower or woman power to to do the
hard work. Well, here's what gets me is just imagine, you know, first of all, just go back to the hunters. Yeah.
>> Right. You're a hunter. >> You're just you're hanging out with your brother. Do you do people drink beer
when they hunt? >> I think some people do. >> Yeah. And don't I've been shooting and
stuff, but I I'm not a hunter myself, but So, you find this barrel. One, I don't think I'd have the guts to open
the damn thing. >> Yeah. you made a bit of a noise when when we we were going through the barrel
portion and I actually I had I had thought that we would say like like don't open up that barrel. You know what
I mean? Like cuz >> I don't know that I would like it. And actually I happened to I wanted to look
up what what hunting season they would be in >> in New Hampshire at that time, right?
>> To to actually verify that it was an actual hunting season because part of me
thought, well, is this strange? Because in some cases you do have the perpetrator of a crime is actually the
person that will later report >> right right that they found >> that they found the body. And so it was
actually hunting season. But it seemed a little strange to me that these guys are
just out and they're like, "Oh, >> we found a barrel. >> Check out that barrel over there. Let's
go uh let's let's go pop that baby open and see what's inside." >> Well, and I think what's weird about
that is that there there are cars to surround. There's, you know, old cars. There's trash. So, it's not like it's
just like this middle of a field and there's a barrel and we should open it. Like, it's it's kind of odd that they
decided we're going to open it, but that's creepy enough. And then imagine being the chief of police and this small
community and you're going, "Okay, now we got these two victims >> and uh you know, I think it becomes more
horrendous because one is a child and now but then you can't even start really the investigation because you can't even
figure out who they are." >> Mhm. I mean, there's so many different levels of horror here.
>> And I actually came across an interview with one of the brothers, one of the hunters that was out there that day that
discovered the barrel. >> And this is many years after the fact. And they they had said that they got
like some form of PTSD from finding this thing. That these guys were like avid outdoor guys. They were always hunting
and they found this thing and it really affected them big time. >> There's some things you can't unsee.
>> Yeah. And and the one the one brother said, you know, I you know, he said, I didn't return to the woods or to a
wooded area for almost 10 years because it just kind of he's he's like, I got afraid of what I might see out there or
what I might find or who might be out lurking in the in the woods. Well, and if you think with avid hunters that
there's possibly, you know, the hunters would have to deal with, you know, carcasses of animals. So maybe they
wouldn't be as affected by this, but it's probably takes on a whole different meaning or a whole different psych
there's some psychological thing there where this is human remains. This is not a deer.
>> Yeah. And you're right, it's something you can't unsee. It's probably something
that unfortunately creeps into your dreams at night over and over again. So, they make this discovery in 1985
and the leads are going dead >> there. You know, everything's a dead end and it seems like it's just going to
we're going to have to chalk it up and put it to the side and just say we don't even know who these victims are. We we
we don't even know what to do with this case and this is just going to be become
cold. >> Yeah. And you can tell by some of those leads that they were following that it
appears that I bet you these investigators thought several times that they had this thing solved or at least
had placed names to these to these remains. >> And unfortunately they were able never
able to do so. And actually not only that, the the bad part here though is they end up learning nothing new about
the female victims throughout the course of this investigation. Uh, and I really
do think they tried everything that they could think of. Um, from checking they they started doing other things too
where they were checking elementary schools in New Hampshire. You know, they're going to go out and look for a
situation where maybe there is a girl that was attending school one day and no longer was attending the next day.
>> Right. And for whatever reason just wasn't reported missing or the paperwork didn't get filed or or something.
>> Mhm. The other thing that they did, and this sounds extremely tedious to me, uh
they were checking medical records for every person um that was listed as missing uh or or persons that they could
find medical records for from everywhere from basically Cape Cod all the way out
to California and they find nothing in this as well. I mean, think about how long of a process that has to be.
>> That's a that's a task that I'd give you to do. cuz I don't think I'd want to do
that. >> So, after the case goes cold, we we have a new person enter the story. And this
is in 2000. There's a state police sergeant. His name is John Cody. And >> so 15 years later,
>> yes, he was assigned to take over the case. So back then, the state of New Hampshire did not have a cold case unit.
So what they would do is the state troopers would be assigned old cases. you know, you put fresh eyes to an old
case. So, John >> might have been a little bit of fun for the state troopers. >> Yeah. He
>> They're doing more like, you know, footwork, >> investigative type work. So, John Cody,
he decides that he is going to go down to the site where the body where the bodies in the barrel were found.
>> Uh he wants to see the location for himself and see if he can search out and maybe find some clues. I mean, it seems
like a fruitless effort to me because it's 15 years later, but I don't know what what, you know, the things that
John Cody knows. Uh, and who knows what he thinks he could find. >> I don't I don't think it's fruitless on
the fact that we, like we mentioned, there's it's almost a little bit of a junkyard down there.
>> So, I mean, there's possible clues around every corner. >> This is on May 9th, 2000. Officer Cody
goes to the location of the privately owned wooded lot that is near the trailer. This is near a trailer park and
it's also on the outskirts of the Bearbrook State Park. So, this is where the story is going to take a very
strange twist. While Officer Cody is examining the area, he located another barrel. This one is approximately 100
yards from the where the first barrel was found. >> Mhm. >> So, just about a football field away
from where he found the first barrel. So, we have this situation here, Captain. Right. We have the the cold
case state trooper. He's out there checking out this area. >> Mhm. >> He knows what was found in 1985,
>> right? >> He's fully aware. He's on the investigation and he's out there and he
spots an identical barrel >> and he knows what there were what was found in the barrel.
>> Yeah. And >> and so now we have a similar barrel not that far away. But again, it's been 15
years. >> Mhm. So, I mean there's, you know, the other question is as you're searching
this area, do you see any other kind of barrels and containers? You probably see
a bunch of stuff. Um, but this is very similar. And he's probably been looking at these pictures for a long time.
>> Mhm. >> And so what's going through his mind at that time? >> Yeah. Well, I I I would guess that he's
probably hoping to find clothing or maybe some type of murder weapon or or he's probably thinking that there were
may have be other things that were dumped at that same site along with those two first victims.
>> And this is different than when the hunters found the barrel because the hunters find a barrel and it's like,
well, you could open it up, it could be anything. >> But now you're in a situation as the
detective where there's kind of two possibilities. It's nothing or or it's more of the same
>> or it could be be evidence of towards the first victims that were found, >> right? This could be the smoking gun.
>> The big question would be, do you open up this barrel? >> That of course is the big question. But
one question that he must be asking himself too is, was this something that was searched in 1985? You know, how much
of this land and things on the land were searched in 1985? >> Yeah. Maybe they missed something.
>> Mhm. Uh, let's get into that right after this beer break. [Music] All right, and we're back. Cheers,
everybody. So, in 1985, two hunters discovered this first barrel with two sets of remains in it. And now
we have this situation in 2000 where police sergeant John Cody is back at the scene and he's looking for clues and
scoping out the area. What he discovers while he's there is he finds a second barrel. Opening it up, looking for
clues. Unfortunately, what he does find inside is the sets of two more remains. Now the question becomes, is this just a
dumping ground or is this connected to the first barrel? >> Yeah. And what they find inside is again
these are dismembered remains uh wrapped in plastic and these people were disposed of like trash just like the
first two. Uh but again we have a situation here where these are two unidentified bodies. What they do learn
and what they now know is as follows. The remains found were that of two young girls, both younger than the girl that
was found with the woman in 1985. >> So, we will call these two victims victim number three and victim number
four. Victim number three, or what some would call the middle child, is well, this is because she is younger than
victim number two, the girl found in 1985, and she is older than the girl that she is found with in 2000.
>> Mhm. She is believed to be 2 to four years of age. She is listed at 3' 10 in tall. Weight unknown. She had wavy brown
hair and a pronounced overbite. She is listed as UP number 2175 on Name. Now, victim number four is the youngest of
all of the victims. She is believed to be 1 to 3 years of age, 2'5 in tall. Her weight, too, is unknown. and she had
blonde wavy hair. She had a large gap in her upper front teeth and she is listed
as UP number 2176 on Namus. Both of these girls were Caucasian. They just like the first two victims were believed
to have been bludgeoned and they were again dismembered. >> 100% Caucasian. >> Um well, we'll we'll get into that. The
single steel casket idea is going to pay off a bit because in 2000 after the discovery of the new body barrel, this
led to the exumation of the woman and child found in 1985. This of course is going to be for multiple reasons, but
one of the things that they really want to do here is to set up a DNA comparison. Okay, so here is what we
have learned from the DNA testing. The testing found that the woman was biologically related to the oldest
child. This is victim number two, the girl that was found with the woman. >> Mhm.
>> It is also determined that the woman was biologically related to the youngest
girl found. This being victim number four. >> Yeah. The baby. >> So victim one is biologically related to
victim victims two and four. I believe when DNA was not so advanced originally, they could prove that the woman was
related in the sense that she was either the mother, the aunt, or possibly a sister to victims two and four. Of
course, science gets better and then they are later able to determine with further testing
>> that she is in fact maternally related to victims two and four. So, she is the
mother. Now we have this weird thing here though because there are all these people. But who is this unrelated middle
child? Victim number three is not maternally related to victim number one. But there is a possibility at the time
that she is related to the other girl victims. Meaning that she could have possibly the same father or maybe some
more distant type relative to the two. >> Right? So they can't say that she is related to the other girl victims for
sure, but they also cannot officially rule that out. >> With knowing the ages of these victims,
does that kind of pinpoint a time of when they were actually murdered? >> Yes. And this is kind of weird to me
because this is what the investigators are able to to say. And this is their statement as being and quote, "All four
victims were killed between 1980 and 1985 and possibly as early as 1977. Can't you kind of see the press
conference right there and that that being delivered? >> Uh between 80 and 85, but maybe 77.
>> So, let's touch on something real quick here. The the first two victims were described as having been found in trash
bags inside the 55gallon barrel. >> Victims three and four were described as having been found in plastic inside of
the second 55gallon barrel. But what I did find later was a statement where an off officer says, "We believe this
plastic to be trash bags as well, matching the trash bags from the first barrel." So maybe maybe that's their
connection. So most likely, I'm guessing after sitting there for an additional 15
years, just like, you know, the bodies were far more decomposed than the first two, these trash bags could have either
been cut up or maybe they deteriorated over time as well. And I know that might sound dumb because, you know, we're told
that plastic does not break down, and that is pretty much true. But there are a few types of bacteria that will in
fact break down plastic. Also, there's this thing that happens with sunlight over time that can create a situation
that will eventually begin to break down plastic. Did the murders take place somewhere and then were they put into
bags, transported, and just maybe happened to find, you know, happen stance that they happen to find these
barrels? >> Mhm. Because you're talking about a 55gallon barrel. They're probably
somewhat weight to them. >> Yeah. >> So, or did the murders take place somewhere else and then put in the
barrels and then transported to the scene in the barrels? >> Those are all very good questions. And
and one thing one theory that locals have brought up was that they had locals thought that this would have been
somebody that would have been local to the area or knew the area because the area where these barrels were found is
not like easily accessible from the highway or anything like that. It's not like somebody just pulled over and
dumped these things out and kept on going. >> And then you have the the other issue
because we talked about the trailer park that was close. >> Mhm. the the one of the issues there is,
you know, it is the 80s, late 70s, early 80s, and what kind of records were kept
on rentals there. >> Yeah. >> You know, somebody could have been renting, you know, and who would know
when somebody's coming and going >> or possibly somebody just shacked up with somebody for a brief period of time
and weren't technically listed as a tenant, >> right, on the lease. Yeah. >> So, we have this very weird situation,
right, Captain? We have four victims. Well, I don't even think Well, it's weird, but I think it's it's gruesome. I
mean, we got four bodies that were mutilated and put into a barrel. >> Mhm. >> Into two separate barrels, all with
unknown identities. But even more strange, there is one, you know, there there is not even anybody listed in any
database that matches this criteria. You would think that with the advancement of
DNA and all of the the items that were collected that you would know something about these victims and that maybe you
would have a young mother with two children listed in some database somewhere that you could link to at
least three of the four victims. Right. >> Right. You have a mother of two and you'd think that somebody at some point
would come forward and say that's possibly mine. U you know possibly my daughter. It's it's almost like these uh
it's almost like these four victims are the the forgotten. >> It's conceivable that if you could
identify any of these that victims that you would have some kind of leads to go off of, but then you have this other
girl victim that that is not related to the others that you know, you would think you would have a situation where
you have this woman and her two kids were last seen here or they were last living here,
>> right? And if we could identify her, right? or if we can identify any of them, then the question for me would be
asking the family, why didn't you report her missing? >> Right? Was she not your favorite
daughter? So, you just just figured all she went off and with somebody. And look, I know it's a different time, you
know, late 70s, early 80s, it's a different time. There was a lot of times that people, like I said, they ran away
from their abusive husbands. Rightfully so. Right. >> Right. But, but people still reported
children as missing. And and and I get what you're saying. And it is a little more believable that a that a mother and
a couple kids possibly go missing and something tragic happened to them. But then you throw this whole wrench in the
thing where you have this unidentified third girl who's not related to the others.
>> And so it's weird to have a situation where you basically have most of one family disappear, something tragic
happened to them, not reported missing, and then on top of that they're linked to this other victim who's not reported
missing as well. >> Right. That's what flipping blows my mind. You know what I mean? It's like,
you know, if it if this was your sister, you'd report her missing, >> right? If this was your girlfriend,
you'd report her missing, unless you're the one that put her in the these barrels, right? But but still, or maybe
maybe this person was a orphan. Maybe they're maybe this girl um didn't have family members. Maybe she was a runaway.
The thing that bothers me too on this is what if this what if the girl Okay, just
so just go down on this little rabbit hole with me. >> Mhm. >> But what if this girl was actually
abducted, you know, in the 60s, >> right? >> And then she was reported missing in the
60s and this person was groomed or was was captive. Oh, like a JC Duggard situation where it's where you take
somebody captive and you keep them as a family member or keep them in your home and then father children with with them,
>> right? And so now you have these these two children, right? >> Mhm. >> And and we know that they're connected
to um the oldest victim, but we have no record of them going missing. >> Yeah. So, as much as I I there's a part
of me that doesn't want to believe that there's I mean, look, we all have douchy
family members, right? >> But >> do you want me to list mine? >> I don't think we have enough time on
this show. Met some of his family members. Not Not the best of people. Um but it seems unlikely to me that nobody
would report this girl missing. >> Yeah. And you're doing exactly what everybody does once they review the
victim list here. your mind starts to run wild and you try to make sense of this whole situation. You kind of start
to come up with your own stories. Was this was this middle child somebody that the mother was babysitting? You know, or
was this an adopted kid? Um, you know, >> or or was it a kid that she was forced
to take care of? >> You know, some psycho kidnapped her when she was a kid or a teenager. And that's
what they should really be diving into. >> Were these people living with somebody?
Were they living with a man that did this to them? And was this man potentially >> not living, but I I would assume cap
they were captive. You know, they were taken captured by this guy that were kidnapped. This girl was kidnapped and
then she was probably forced to have these children and now there's this other child and she is having to raise
that child as well. >> Yeah. So there there's a question of where is the father? Why didn't he
report anybody missing? But the other thing too is then you have a situation where there has to be another mother
involved in this inner circle of victims that didn't report anybody missing too.
So there's so what we end up here with is a few answers as far as the DNA testing goes in their findings in 2000,
but we all we ultimately just get a whole bunch of more questions. Well, the other thing that they're able to do with
the DNA is to do the DNA rec, you know, uh, profile picks >> where they can take uh, and make an
image of the person based off of DNA. >> Yeah. And that advances some of the sketches that were released from 1985.
They they've further advanced them and put more likelihood and more likeness to to those sketches in 2000.
>> And the middle child, which we don't know if she is related or not. We can't rule that out. But to me, she looks like
uh possibly possibly Filipino or possibly some kind of Asian descent. >> Yeah. And there there are some
differences in her herd look compared to the others. Let's let's step aside though and go into some suspects because
in 2000 they did start coming up with some some suspicious people here. Uh the New Hampshire State Police started to
look at a serial killer. His name was John Edward Robinson uh as a being a suspect in this case.
>> Now, this does make some sense here because John Robinson was apprehended in June of 2000. So, less than one month
after the discovery of the second body barrel, he's apprehended. And we see this happen a lot where police apprehend
a serial killer and in some cases, if not most cases, they can be unaware that they even have a serial killer running
around at all. and then they arrest someone for an individual murder and then they quickly become aware that hey
this you know this guy's a serial killer and sometimes that means okay well now we need to figure out this guy's
movements. >> Was this his first arrest? I mean was he in jail during the times where these
barrels possibly would have been dumped? >> Um no he he would have been out um and
you know they want to figure out all the places that he would have lived all the
places that he would have worked. Does he travel for work? Does he travel a lot for fun? All of these things because it
always raises the question, if this guy was capable of killing a handful of people here, he's probably capable of
killing people elsewhere. Of course, >> what was his typical victim? >> Well, that that's the thing and that's
why I think that they they looked at him. So, Robinson was suspected of having killed eight or more people in
more than one state. Uh they have linked him to deaths in Kansas and Missouri. But the thing that I think landed him on
the suspect list was that he had a similar MMO that would fit this case. Robinson had been known to prey upon
single mothers and in some cases he was able to convince or at least attempted to try to convince the victim's
families, you know, the the mom and dad of the single mother that the victim had
moved away of their own will. making it look like, you know, he had written letters and sent them to moms and dads
stating that the the mother had taken a job elsewhere in another state of work. >> She was doing well. She didn't intend to
move back, you know. So, these parents have their daughter who's actually been out and been murdered and they think
that she's off and fine. And so, therefore, she's not reported as missing. >> Yeah. Yeah. note to self if some dope
writes you a letter saying, "Hey, uh, your daughter's with me and she's fine. She just don't want to come home
anymore, uh, that guy's a dope. Don't listen to him and, uh, do your due diligence." Well, just to go into how
manipulative this guy was, okay? Um, he there was a situation where he had killed a mother and he had convinced her
family that she had moved away and he needed to get rid of the lady's kid. So, what he did was he set up some fake
adoption and adopted the kid out to some other couple. The only good thing here is that these people thought it was a
legit adoption. Um, they weren't like some weirdos looking to illegally adopt a kid.
>> Well, and it's a very good thing that he didn't kill the kid. You know, it's >> Yeah. And that shows you why his MMO
matches this type of case. you know, they're looking for somebody that could make people disappear, go unreported.
Um, he is ultimately eventually ruled out of this case. Um, I'm guessing that they're able to figure out that he would
not have been in the area at the time of when they think that these barrels were
placed there. >> I'll post it I'll post a couple of his pictures online. I mean, this guy's
definitely a creepy looking dude. Has his giant glasses, you know. >> Mhm. Yeah. And one of one of the things
they call him they or refer to him as uh Robinson, they refer to him as the internet's first serial killer because
later in his killing career uh he he started using chat rooms to to you know hook up with these victims.
>> This other site also says uh they call him the internet slave master. >> Mhm.
>> Uh he's a creepy dude. I mean this is this is El Creo. This situation though definitely fits a lot of theories that
were going around at the time. Um, you know, of course, one of the theories was that this would be the work of a serial
killer or maybe even possibly an organized crime member. Uh, because we've seen throughout time that that
organized crime members seem to be pretty good at disposing of bodies. Um, some have believed that the killer was
someone local. discussed that because of the the highway situation and it being an area that wouldn't be familiar to
people outside of the town. Um, and of course there's also the theory, which is a very plausible theory in my opinion,
is that the victims could have been killed by a boyfriend or a husband. >> So, starting in 1985, this case quickly
became a cold case and then it gets reopened in 2000. Yeah. >> But then, you know, now it's 2017, it's
since have gone cold again. But we've noticed with a lot of these cold cases and a lot of these armchair
detectives as you know we're trying to be I guess uh or support the true crime community that people kind of get their
pet cases. >> Yeah. >> That they keep researching and and I know I think I I believe our Facebook
girl Aelia actually is really into this case. >> Yeah. There are a lot of people out
there that have followed this for the entirety of the case. We want to give a quick shout out to some very cool people
that have worked very hard on this case. If you watch some of the police press conferences, um you'll hear the
investigators say that they've been working with agencies in other states, right?
>> And sometimes they mention that they've been working with a local lady or local
amateur investigator. And I actually believe that they are talking about New Hampshire residents Ronda Randall and
Scott Maxwell. This is a brother and sister amateur investigative pair. And they have spent a minimum of 40 hours a
week on this case for the past 5 years. Wow. >> So, in doing our work >> that I mean that's a lot of dedication.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. I don't know how they have the means to do that, but
they've put in a lot of hard work on this case. So, in doing our research for this case, uh we used some of their hard
work as a primary source for us as well as the local agencies as well. Uh there have been been many great groups
involved in this investigation, but I wanted to make sure that we included Rhonda and Scott because I feel like
they have been a great source and a very positive force in this investigation and
they often get left out when police and media are, you know, kind of rolling through their credits.
>> Well, cheers to them. Yeah. What's their major theory? >> Uh they they have a few theories that
they review and we won't we won't have to go all the way into every one of them because you can kind of get the gist of
each. So to just put your toe into the rabbit hole. >> Yeah. So So let's go. This first theory
here is the drunken rage theory. >> So this theory is >> sounds like >> sounds like the captain throwing a beer
bottle at the garage wall. >> That is not true. That never >> has never happened.
>> Maybe once. >> Maybe last week. Uh so the drunken rage theory is a you know the woman with the
two kids is living in some sort of relationship with a man and a kid and in a drunken rage he ends up killing them
all. You know this is pretty much similar to the theory that is out there from before that they establish that the
midchild is not linked to the woman this being victim number one. This is just like the family annihilator theory that
a man annihilated his entire family. either he either a then committed suicide or b moved away and assumed a
new identity. Not reporting anybody as missing obviously. There's also the sexual predator theory. This is that a
sexual predator offers a needy family a place to stay and eventually molests or attempts to molest the children and then
kills to cover up this crime. >> Mhm. >> There is also the woman on the run theory which is kind of a two-parter. So
>> yeah, we kind of brought that up. You know, the a battered wife. >> Yeah. The thought here that that a woman
on the run with her two children runs into a situation that ends up being even more worse than what the situation she's
running from or a person they are running from catches up to them at some point. Uh, but as you can see, the
midchild, the one that's not connected to the woman, victim number one, this midchild throws a big wrench in a lot of
these different theories and certainly adds a variable that is not easily explained.
>> Rhonda and Scott, they uh uncovered some stuff that just doesn't seem like a law
enforcement uncovered about the owner of the private property. >> Yeah, remember we had said that the
barrels were actually found on private property that backs up to the state park, right? So the land owner's name is
Robert Callahan and Callahan lived on the land during some of the time that these barrels could have been placed
there. Uh so the thing here is though that Callahan spent time at the New Hampshire State Prison. This would be
from 1991 until 1996. He was in there >> until afterwards after the first barrel
was found. >> And he was in there for sexual assault of a minor. >> Oh, >> his >> red flag. and they revealed his court
transcripts to to figure out exactly what this means. They didn't go into specifics, but regarding those
transcripts, they were able to determine that during the course of that trial, he
admitted to molesting both girls and boys over a period of time. The other thing to consider here is the trailer
park that is nearby. You brought up the trailer park about possible people living there, right?
>> Uh people that might have been listed or not listed as living there. And I I do
want to say something that I heard from a now famous Ohio detective who turned author. And I'm not going to say her
name because I'm not sure how many people she intended for this statement to be heard by, but she had once said
that in some of these trailer parks, you can't swing a bat without hitting a sexual predator, which which makes you
think, you know, it >> Well, note to self, I will I'm not going to be living in a trailer park then.
>> And I'm moving out of mine immediately. Yeah, the where we're going to have to
move the garage out of our trailer park. Um, yeah, that's Well, but you would think because of the codes now where you
have to register and you can't be a certain distance, >> stuff like that. >> Times have certainly changed and that's
one thing that we see in this investigation as it goes on throughout the years. Anytime technological
advancements were made and could provide additional investigative tools, the new
the New Hampshire State Police and the FBI, they took advantage of new technology by applying it to this case,
running the necessary test and putting it to work. >> Yeah. The FBI doesn't mess around.
>> Well, they did this thing. This is some weird stuff here. >> Well, and and I would just like to say
it's to me just because of what happened with the the the case in Grove City and
the Columbus case. Uh and then the the case that's helping uh happening right now, the deli murders,
>> uh in Indiana, and now I believe the FBI is involved in that. >> Um you see now with more modern cases
because and probably because of technology that when the FBI gets involved, it gets solved quickly.
>> And so it's it's fascinating to me that the the FBI has been involved in this
case and they're not any further along. Well, and the thing is, and this is my understanding here, Captain, I could be
completely off base, but my understanding is for the FBI to get involved in a case, there has to
actually be a break in a federal crime. Somebody has to break a federal law. Now, one bit of a
>> murder is not >> well, but that's technically investigated by a state, >> right?
>> So, but the loophole in that situation is kidnapping is considered a federal crime. And therefore, you could, one
could argue that even if you are even being held captive for a second or two before you're murdered, that that's
technically kidnapping. Anytime a person is somewhere where they don't want to be
is technically kidnapping according to the definition. >> So like Oh, so like if you're at your
job, you don't want to be there. >> Well, is that can I call my boss is keeping me here?
>> You might be stretching. I just want to go to the garage and have a couple beers.
>> Let's talk about this isotope testing because this is this is yeah, this is some weird stuff.
>> Isotope. >> Yes, isotope. So, basically due to chemicals and pollutants that are in our
environment and I'm sure there are several other things that I don't understand nor could I explain uh that
are involved, but they can determine where someone may have lived basically by determining where they wouldn't have
lived. >> Right? >> Does that make sense? And I think a lot of this has to do with drinking water.
Um, and so here's the situation, right? They do this isotope testing. So for victim one and her two children, this
would be, you know, victim two and victim 4. They have a map of the United States showing that she could have been
from the Northeast and there is some of the Midwest on there and some of the West Coast as well.
>> But it basically, which sounds like I just named the entire United States. you
know, you basically pulled the uh well, they were probably dumped or probably murdered between 80, 85, maybe 76.
>> So, the thing here is though when you look at the map, it uh it really does eliminate a good 2/3 maybe 3/4 of the
United States. >> So, it does narrow it down quite a bit. >> They do have a separate map containing
some of the same testing results. This being for the third girl, victim number three, and the areas where she could
have lived or been from closely resemble that of the other victims. However, the
places she could have lived in the northeast are a lot smaller. Um, so, so some very interesting stuff here,
>> right? So, you basically make a circle of one, make a circle of the other, and
then there's probably going to be a section that's overlapping, and then you can really kind of focus there. Mhm. And
the other thing we see is like you touched on the advancement as far as the facial reconstructions go for the four
victims which have changed quite a bit over the years as well. >> Again, this is due to advancements in
technology. The most obvious in this situation would be victim number one. Remember we said that she was missing
some of her teeth, >> right? Well, that changed her appearance greatly because eventually they were
able to put together a facial reconstruction with what she would have looked like with teeth. Of course, you
know, this changes the appearance of the lower half of one's face almost entirely. Yeah. And originally, we have
evidence of blunt force trauma to the victim's heads, but the law enforcement is able to shine a little more light on
possibly what happened to these uh victims. >> Yeah. And that that's something that I
really question here because one thing that I've noticed that have changed in the the presentation of this
investigation in the last few years is that regarding the two younger girls, you know, they they originally stated
that they shared the same cause of death as the two older victims. Um, which we said originally was listed as being
bludgeoned. Um, but to be more precise, like the captain said, it's actually blunt force trauma to their heads. Now,
this the reason why I question this is I'm not certain if this was something that they weren't making well known at
the time or throughout the years or if it was something that they actually had to scientifically reconstruct and have
to spend a whole bunch of time on this situation to to determine that that was in fact the situation. I mean, we have
something that's very hard to investigate, first of all, when you don't know the victims and their names,
but on top of that, you have dismembered bodies that are found in these barrels that create all kinds of problems when
you're trying to forensically put this back together. >> Well, right. And then this case really
spans over 20 years. And so, the advancement of technology, you would think that you'd be leaps and bounds
above where you were at on doing an autopsy. Even if you don't think that the the original autopsies were bad, it
doesn't it makes a lot of sense to go back and do them again. I mean, back in, you know, 85, you know, most houses
didn't have computers. Now, people were walking around with computers in their pockets or on on their uh watches.
>> Mhm. Yeah. And I wonder if some of those autopsies contained speculation in them.
Um I know that it's supposed to just be reported fact. However, if you cannot make a proper determination, you can
leave what would be called an expert opinion. Now, when you exume those bodies many years later, again,
advancements in technology, maybe they're able to to actually determine that this is it.
>> What a frustrating case for law enforcement because not only do you you're trying to figure out what
happened to these individuals. Then you're also trying to find who is responsible for this, but you can't even
get the first part together. You can't even figure out who the actual victims are.
>> And this this goes on, like we said, we're going on almost uh >> over 30 years now.
>> Yeah. >> And and it's not for the lack of not trying, right? I mean, we see the
efforts that are being put forth. Uh this >> and efforts and and multiple decades.
>> Yeah. By several agencies, by multiple states, even armchair, you know, amateur
sleuths getting involved. Um, this is a case for for a case where you don't have
the identities of the victims. This is a case that's huge and it's it's spanned over the o over across the USA. You
know, looking for these people in every state, medical records, elementary schools, uh, everything that they could
do. >> You have the you have the first barrel in 1985, then the second barrel in 2000.
And if that's not strange enough, nothing none of this leads to to answers. >> Yeah, but this case is going to take a
twist in 2017. >> Yeah, it's this thing's going to bust wide open. Um, but I do >> and we we'll get to that tomorrow.
>> Yeah, because we're running out of time here, but I do have to throw this out
here, Captain. >> This is this is one of the strangest cases I've ever I've ever read about. It
might be the strangest case that we've reviewed so far. And we've we've reviewed some very strange and odd
cases. >> And yeah, and we'll dive into that tomorrow. And we'll dive in that. And we'll dive into that tomorrow. I
want to I want to thank everybody for uh all the feedback on the Brandon Lawson case. I did take it to some buddies of
mine. Everybody was asking for a update. I did take it to some some of my audio engineering buddies to look at. We just
couldn't really come up with anything clearer on this. >> What we found here, >> right? So, we're just kind of stuck at
this point. Maybe uh a as technology gets more advanced in that case that will help us out with that 911 call.
>> If you are looking for an update, you can go to our website trueimeg.com. There are a lot of people that have
posted things that they think that they're hearing what Brandon is saying, as well as theories that they think
that's going on. And interesting enough to me, a lot of the people chiming in seem to be from Texas that are able to
offer a little more insight as to the area that that case took place. >> And make sure you subscribe to the show,
make sure you tell a friend, and we'll see you guys here tomorrow. >> Until tomorrow, everybody, be good, be
kind, and don't flitter. Heat. Heat. [Music]

Body Barrel /// Part 1 /// Episode: 87

TrueCrimeGarage.com

In 1985 a 55 gallon barrel drum is found in a wooded area in Allenstown, New Hampshire. Inside are two decomposed female bodies. From the very start the investigation is an up hill struggle as the identity of the bodies is unknown. Usually this is reason enough to get into the garage, crack open a beer and the case file, but this case is one of the strangest we have seen yet. This investigation spans over 30 years, through several states and leads us to a man of many names. The body barrel found in New Hampshire is Pandora's box. Who knows what we will find? Join us in the garage for one of the strangest cases you have ever heard.

Beer of the week - Tweak Bourbon Barrel Aged StoutGarage Grade - 4 and a half bottle caps out of 5

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Bear Brook murders, focusing on four unidentified victims found in barrels and ongoing investigations.

Key points

Welcome to True Crime Garage. Hosts Nick and Captain introduce the show and the beer of the week.
The Discovery of the Barrel. In 1985, hunters found a metal drum in Bear Brook State Park containing human remains.
Unidentified Victims. Two bodies were found in the barrel, a woman and a young girl, both believed to be bludgeoned to death.
The Impact on the Hunters. The brothers who discovered the barrel experienced PTSD, affecting their relationship with nature.
Discovery of New Remains. In 2000, Officer John Cody discovers a second barrel containing two more sets of remains, raising new questions about the victims' identities.
DNA Testing Reveals Family Ties. DNA testing reveals that the woman found in 1985 is the mother of two of the victims found in 2000, complicating the case further.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

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