WM3 & Adnan Syed /// Off The Record /// Episode #21 | Forensic Files

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] it's your fault Captain your fault it's
your birthday listen to this it's my fault but it's your birthday it's your fault
because last week we talked about West Memphis 3 and I said I was not going to do this because we as you mentioned we
cover a new case every week we it's tough to look at other cases while we're looking at next week's case right MH and
but we could look back on cases there's there's a lot of parts of cases we've talked about in private well what I mean
is your fault is that we talked West Memphis 3 it got me it got me intrigued again and
I think I tried to log it to see how much distraction was involved but I think I did six or seven hours of uh
reading and and uh trying trying to prove me wrong no no no just shuffling around on the internet of of just but
you King any kind of thing of of of the case um not necessarily the theory that we discussed last week but um the cool
thing though is I received a lot of email from people with high Praise of saying hey love that you talked about
West Memphis 3 again and the from the comments I got I gather we could talk about West Memphis 3 on off the Record
every week and everybody would be just completely fine with it yeah and I thought I was heated but uh one of my
friends said nah that's that's a captain on a three MH and I said okay well I'm going to start taking it up to
six well what I wanted to do real quick though uh sign know on the west Memphis 3 I had a source and I don't I don't
know if this is a credible Source um but somebody I've talked to several times about different cases they explain to me
that they know for a fact that Jason is working on an angle and he said that if you listen to the end of Bob ruff's
coverage of West Memphis 3 that they talk about a new lead mhm and that this lead is being worked on by the West
Memphis 3's team right and that um so there is some movement on that now I didn't listen to the whole series um
with Bob Ruff good buddy of ours just I I haven't had the time well it's a commitment it's a commitment because
it's like our show it's twice a week um so it's it's heavy lifting for us who are trying to look at other cases for
you know for our show so yeah that's interesting that you say that because that was my understanding as well was
that Jason Baldwin is actively involved in the investigation that he is so angered about being accused of something
that he says he did not do that he wants to write and correct this because ultimately he did plead guilty to it you
know so and he's not fine with that that's not sitting well with him so he's actively involved uh with the case in
the investigation we say case we we all have to keep in mind it's not a real case as far as far as law enforcement's
concerned but then from my understanding Damian that doesn't mean that it won't change though well it could right right
and here's what I mean by that if they could follow some leads I mean this makes their case harder to solve but
that doesn't make it impossible and I could totally see there's a lot of times that they get rid of a charge mhm and so
it's very possible this plea deal that they took they get rid of well and in my understanding Eckles who we noted as not
being involved in further investigation into this case it's my understanding that his involve that he is involved in
a way and that is he's for these um kind of Innocence projects and um stopping the death penalty kind of thing the
source told me that it's the whole team and now this kind of excludes Jesse Miss
Kelly because he just doesn't want to be involved with anything which is fine I totally understand that but from this
Source it's the whole team uh kind of spearheaded by Jason but Damien is involved but he's just not going to be
public about they're just not going to be as public which is probably smart which is fine with me but again I don't
feel bad for my anger towards them or towards the lack of effort that that I've seen what the hell you shouldn't be
you I don't think that you should be who cares you got you got a little worked up
it's a it's a touchy subject well but it actually makes me feel better when I hear that they are working on it because
then I know if one of these individuals Jason or Damian heard my show they they know where I'm coming from they know
where my frustration lies they have this same frustration so hey maybe one day they they would talk to me well and you
know what's interesting is that I actually none of the feedback I got was anything other than praise for talking
about the case again um so but the way that I liken to what I think went down last week I think that the the teenagers
you know now adults that have become known as The West Memphis 3 I think they were kind of collateral damage for the
captain because you like so many other people are just angry that there are three innocent 8-year-old boys that were
killed and it doesn't feel like there's been any justice and the problem is sometimes when you get angered and angry
about something like that you got to take that hostility somewhere and you don't always know where to go with it
and I think the West Memphis 3 guys were a little bit of collateral damage because there was no just there's been
no justice is what it feels like at the end of the day the collateral damage actually falls on the three boys that
were murdered and what I mean by that is that's the first Injustice and then if you wrongfully uh commit these three
boys you say that they commit the crime and then they get put in jail that's Injustice and then the fact that they
have to take a deal because one of them's on death row and they can't just wait it out I mean it's hard to you know
I believe Jason Baldwin would have waited out I said to my friend I would wait it out I would not lie I would not
tell you that I did something I didn't do screw that that's not going to happen that's that's the way I feel so that
there there's an injustice by them being in prison but then there's an injustice
cuz they have to claim that they did it they get to say okay I plead guilty but but I'm going to retain my in my
innocence so that's an injustice but then the Injustice is too because of all that time spent and all that energy
spent to try to get them out of jail we didn't spend as much time as we should have to try to catch the real
killer and then that that Injustice then falls again on the backs of three eight-year-old boys yeah and and I think
as got me pissed off as far as Jason Goes I'm with you I think he would have waited it out I think the problem there
it's a it's a chess game and the problem is that there's other there's two other
individuals that are in prison as well so when when you're being approached with this opportunity and let's let's
look at it like that it we have to it's an opportunity to get out of prison but you have to shame your own
name to do so the thing is it's a tough decision to make to sit there and go you
know what no I'm going to be a hard ass and I'm just going to stick to my guns and I'm going to wait this thing out and
I'm going to do what I think is right what I believe is right by my principles the problem with that though is I got
two other guys one of them on death row that I have to consider uh yeah you have
to consider but the other it was a package deal you know it was kind of an All or Nothing thing right but the
here's here's what makes it even more difficult is Jason Baldwin knows how their investigation's going he knows how
much money is being poured into this investigation cuz when they go back to trial they have to have all their tees
crossed all their eyes dotted right and he knew how the investigation was going right okay so if you know it's
going pretty well and maybe it takes another year maybe it takes two years what do you care because you're going to
get more and more information to write the wrong M and not only does it write your wrong it brings Justice for these
8y old boys do you so I mean I said it before but people said to me um during text you know a lot of times people
listen to the show Friends will listen to the show they'll text me back and forth and uh oh you weren't that heated
to them I say [ __ ] you no I'm just joking um but they were saying oh you would you
would have taken the deal mhm and I just want it I mean that's and that's what I
feel now I'm not in jail I'm not in prison and I don't have that chance to prove that that's what I believe I'd do
and I and I can't say that I'd 100% do that because I'm not in that situation you know it's yeah I I could give you my
opinion but I don't think it would hold any weight for many reasons one like you
said never been in that situation hope and pray never are in that situation then number two from whose perspective
do you do you decide that you're going to make that decision you know are you Damian who's sitting in a different cell
elsewhere are you Jason you know what I mean there's three different guys three different angles to take that from right
right and I I'm talking more from the angle of Jason I think he was adamant that he was not going to take a deal
again what falls on him heavily is one of his best friends now but you're talking this is years and years pass so
he's not your best friend anymore and then also you could argue that you know there could be some resentfulness there
could be some anger towards him that I hung out with this guy and this is what got me charged mhm so I think that has
to put a play into it but again but if I'm on a death row that's that's way different you know
and and and look I see why they did what they did but it's it's nice to hear if if what this birdie is telling me is
true it's nice to hear that they haven't given up the fight where most people could you could argue yes we said that
we're going to we're going to try to research this we're going to investigate it we're going to get to the bottom of
this we're going to bring Justice for these three little boys you could say that in your documentary but your
comeback after that is well we took this deal and because we did that there's nothing really we can
do and you can make that statement a couple times and people will probably get off your back and and people will
also sympathize with the fact that yeah you're in jail for life and they gave you an opportunity to walk out of jail
that day probably would take it myself right mhm so uh it's nice to hear that they're not giving up even though it's a
bigger uphill battle now right but it's nice to hear that and I hope it's true well that's uh no I think we here look
I'm not done talking about this yet this shut your face this is what happens this
is It's your fault you shut your stupid mouth all right so it sounds like you had a conversation with a little birdie
um and do you have any details or suspicions of of what here's what I think okay from listening to everything that's
going on with it and keeping up with the case my mind wonders where what is this
new possible angle what is this new possible lead mhm and I could Wonder several different things is it do you
think that it's somebody that was close to one of the victims or close to one of
the suspects that has now gotten involved or is revealing more information and they're able to uh work
that angle and work that lead do you think it's actually new information or do you suspect that it might be uh a
person that could have or should have been under suspicion before but was never in the well-known group of
characters that we know about well when you look at Wes of Memphis it it really points it uh pretty bad at Terry hops
points of guilt at Terry hops Now you listen to some of the the interviews that Terry has done after
that they're interesting um they're I don't know if they're people claim that there's physical evidence to
prove that he was there I don't believe that is the case I know that the found a
hair in between shoelaces on the boy's shoes mhm um like one hair uh that could have came from could
have been on the shoelace before the boys ended up there there's a lot of eyewitnesses that saw him um that day at
multiple times um and then all the weird stuff that really came to light with him
was years and years later mhm coming from his ex-wife which I'm just going to say this
Pamela Hobbs she's a little crazy well so no I mean she's there's there's something going on with her and to be
married to somebody for so long and then all of the sudden all these bad things come to light and it's like you see it
all the time people get divorced then all of a sudden well I was married to the devil well you were married to him
for how long and that you're okay with that mhm but then all of a sudden it you turn you know what I mean and these are
the tough thing is there's so much emotion here so these are the same individuals uh whether it's Terry Hobbs
whether it's whatever parent there's so many of the parents that when they thought the West Memphis 3 were guilty
it was they're guilty and I hope they burn in hell mhm right and then once they think it's somebody else you know
Mark buers once everybody thought maybe it was Mark buers then they were like Mike Mark buers did
it and I hope he burns in hell and when once that passed then it was like oh Terry Hobbs did it I hope he burns in
hell you know it's like so I think people are very quick to jump from one Theory to another
theory and I don't know if it's a casted characters I think there's something weird about Vicky Hutchinson's son's um
accounts of the events and knowing that there was eyewitnesses that saw multiple eyewitnesses that saw um young
men of color leaving the woods and then we have a bloody man of color at the restaurant and do they have a lead to
let us know who that was you know so I think I like to answer your question I have no clue but it wouldn't
surprise me if it if it was a lead out of left field that they never even thought about right right or here's the
other thought what if they're able to discredit somebody's Alibi let's say somebody that they looked at way back in
1993 had an alibi and then all of a sudden that alibi doesn't really exist and somehow somebody's able to prove
that right you know we talked about that when uh false aliis people provide them
all the time you know people that should be that probably are guilty of something
provide a false Alibi and the troubling thing and I don't want to put this on law enforcement's shoulders but here
here's been my thought and this doesn't go for across the board you know this doesn't mean every individual in law
enforcement works this way it just like we've said time and time again there are
people that are good at their jobs and there are people that are bad at their jobs and in every line of work across
the whole entire world yeah we're proof of that right so you just wonder when you have so many people that were talked
to and so many people that were interviewed and one of the questions that was a part of their questionnaire
you know they had these questions that the um the lead detective gell that he came up with and he's like look every
person you talk to you're going to ask them at least these questions plus any other questions you can think of that
that come up out of the answers they give you to these questions and one of those questions
would imply that they you know where were you at the time of the murders you know so here's the thing if you
interview 200 300 people and you ask them where they were at the time of the murders you may have an alibi for 90% of
those people let's say 10% are going to give you the old I was sitting at home watching TV because that's what people
do and and and you're alone doing that you have nobody to prove that you were there watching TV but what I'm getting
at is if you have all of these aliis hundreds of them essentially they need to be followed up on and I don't know
that we can believe that all of them were thoroughly followed up on there's probably a couple people in there one
might be a suspect one might be the killer that has claimed to have been somewhere and it's either a flimsy Alibi
the one that that they can't discredit or can't prove well even in like the Callahan files I don't want to jump off
what you're saying too much but it's the same thing with aliis as far as eyewitnesses because we don't H you know
we have a rough time frame of when we think those boys were M murdered but if you go back and find out that okay so uh
eyewitness a b c and d are correct but maybe gnf or whatever is not so maybe maybe May that brings uh maybe we can
narrow down the window of when we think the boys went missing mhm and the one issue is that it's just so
far um we're so far removed now from 1993 but again could it be somebody that watched one of these documentaries that
went they said I said what that's not what I said right that's not what I meant or whatever it was let me reach
out to these people and clear the air and say hey this this is what said this is what I actually said and yeah it's
it's interesting and and the thing that's so weird about this one is looking at it is there some evidence
against Terry Hobs yes is there some evidence against Mark buers yes was there some evidence against the West
Memphis 3 yes it's almost you know having watched portions of those trials you almost think that there's as
flimsy as a verdict guilty verdict as those were yeah I mean you could have you could have probably convicted Mark
buers you could have probably convicted Terry Hobbs you could have you could picked you could have picked somebody at
random in that neighborhood and convicted them M if you wanted if if the bar that was set is those two trials
that got convictions then you you could have picked anybody at random well again
I think the other thing that makes this very difficult for investigators is the wounds are those are those postmortem
wounds or they not and depending on what answer you get from which expert quote unquote expert it will lead you down
different rabbit holes mhm and so it's really become becomes what you believe but not just in 1993 but in today's
society I see it all the time with people they they come up with the idea they take a hard and fast you know
stance on something and they don't waver mhm and that needs to stop you know in my mind if we want to grow as a society
if we want to get the answers to some of these cases you have to open up your mind mhm well this expert's saying this
maybe it's that this expert saying this maybe it's that we now we need to go down both rabbit holes you the other
thing that's crazy too is you know we when we talked about this case and covered it we talked about how there was
a um a list that was provided to law enforcement and I think there was going off of memory 10 11 maybe 12 names 10 to
12 people on this list that the one investigator the one detective gave to the police department and said talk to
these 10 or 12 people I believe the Killer is on this list and that's Damen eckl's name was on that list I believe
Jason Baldwin was on there as well but most of the people on that list were all teenager types wearing black shirts long
hair you know you guys that guys and girls that looked like the West Memphis 3 right just
because you listen to Ministry or 9in Nails doesn't make you a murderer I mean it makes you cool because you have some
good taste in music but doesn't make you a murderer the thing that I've often wondered though Captain
is could could that person could that detective have been right that I believe the killer's name is on this list that
I'm providing you I don't know who the Killer is on this list but I believe that their name is on here I think
that's irresponsible no I I agree 100% but I'm I'm just looking at it as an armchair detective person that has holds
no responsibility with law enforcement as somebody that likes to just think through these puzzles and I I've
wondered it's it's an interesting thing to ponder what if the name was on that list but it's not one of the three three
that was convicted right you know I don't think I don't believe Jesse Miss Kelly's name was listed there um or
could it have been one of the West Memphis 3 along with other people listed on that list it's it's an interesting
thing to kind of it's an interesting soccer ball to kick around I think okay so I'm I want to take a point from this
case and go into another case okay okay and follow me on this this is my issue when you when you when you're
closed-minded and you come you need to have these people answer questions a certain way to get to your ending
because you established an ending and and this is where it gets very messy because if they just there's no
hours in between they just said Jesse Miss Kelly talk right and they don't lead him
anywhere mhm what does he say we don't know because they led him well well he does give a partial confession before
they really start steering it in the direction that they want right right but again we have this Gap in time there's
not there wasn't a confession like hey this guy wants to come in don't talk to him don't ask him any questions hit
record and let's go right there's this Gap we don't know what was said we have no clue I have a lot of
good guesses I think yeah but what I'm saying is so once they hit record we're steering the conversation they were
steering the conversation before they hit record and and the same thing with Vicki Hutchinson's son Aaron Hutchinson
what did they say to him before they hit record and that that that creates a narrative once you create that narrative
because they have their ending so and and and this is something that happened in serial
you have this guy Jay that is supposedly quote unquote confessing to a crime or confessing to be involved in a crime in
some manner right we have conversations that happen that we don't have any record of so we
don't know what was talked about and what we do know is that law enforcement had a cell phone ping diagram and they
had to make his story make sense with this ping diagram right so now we have law enforcement that has the ending
that's their proof that's their physical proof that's something that they can go
to the jury and say we have this physical proof you have to follow this physical
proof but his story has to make sense with that physical proof and we know cell phone ping you know cell phone ping
technology it's a lot of horseshit right it's a lot of maybe it pinged at the closest Tower maybe it
pings at a farther away Tower right it's not definitive Definitive proof so what
we have is this thing that the cops at the time thought was definitive proof so now they need to make Jay's story make
sense with that so much so that they're knocking on the desk MH just like stuff that they did with Jesse Miss
Kelly and then it makes Jay look more and more and more and more like a liar every time and one of my issues with
that has always been when people go Jay's a liar yes he's a liar there's proof that he's lying but what we also
have in that case in the serial case it's proof of law enforcement forcing his hand to say what they want him to
say mhm so does that actually make him a liar you see what I mean oh yeah like yes technically he is lying but he's
lying because they're telling him to lie mhm and that changes the whole shade of the case
because if we go in again no Communications before just hit record tell us what happened and we have that
on record and then if we have it on record later that the cops are knocking on Windows and stuff to make him change
his answers or we don't think that's what happened Jay go back and tell us again mhm then at least we have the
first story and then we can start with that and then based off that first story how much is he changing and is he
changing because J is a liar or is he changing because law enforcement is forcing his hand MH this is something
that you know I would debate all the time at crime con that's if you haven't gone to Crime con you just need to go
just just get in the old station wagon because drive right into town set up shop for about three nights call Bigfoot
he'll drive you come party with the extra extra Chrispy Colonel yeah hang out with the extra crispy Colonel no but
what I find so fascinating about about that is it changes the whole shade of a case and so if I could tell you that all
the lies that Jay told just hypothetically if I said to you all the lies that Jay told about the
timeline where it happened what happened what time all that stuff you know what car it was where they all that stuff was
forced by the hand of the cops but we have initial statement from him that's actually true and he was
still involved in this murder and Adon was still involved in the murder mhm that would
change a lot of these points of interest of the case that people talk about and debate about and discuss and and we'll
never know that though so uh that always leaves doubt so if somebody asks me do I
think Jay's a liar well yeah cuz we have proof of it right right we know he's a liar that's not even a
right that's not even a debate but why is he and who is forc in his hand what's the motivation yeah and and look I like
to ponder these things but I want to ponder these things because there's injustices you know Heyman Lee it's
injust that we don't know we have a man that's accused we have a man that was tried poorly we have a man in jail for
the crime but we don't know and and that's uh again another case where I think law enforcement start going down
rabbit holes before they actually did all their due due diligence you know right well and then the other problem
though too is there's a lot of pressure to solve these cases and then when you're handed something even if you had
to encourage the confession even if you had to push it along and steer the confession in certain ways it's tough it
would be tough even for me for most people I think to be handed some type of a confession and and go well okay I I
don't know if it's 100% right but I feel like it's telling me what we the gist of
what we need to know no I think they need to go the opposite I think the problem with law
enforcement and it's just this is their job right but I think the problem with law enforcement or even just Society in
General is the truth has become something that nobody gives a [ __ ] about anymore for the most point I mean you
hear all the time people say well that's my truth that's called opinion you dumb
piece of [ __ ] when somebody says to me well hey man this is my thoughts These are My Views it's my truth no dumbass
that's called opinion right what I'm interested in is truths you see what I mean and I think
with these law enforcement guys you get this confession start on the opposite side I don't know if I believe Jay okay
I'm going to go in there and Grill him and I'm try I'm going to try to get him to confess that what he's telling me is
[ __ ] see what I'm saying and if he doesn't break on that end then when the floodgates do
open just sit back let it happen you know what I mean well and not in every case I understand you know in a perfect
world yes I would agree 100% with that the the current system that we have is that's not their job it's it's okay I've
I've found a guy a suspect that I cannot rule out and I have evidence to say he is the guy he is the killer here you go
prosecutor this is your case no no no no but hold on and both of these cases Jesse Miss Kell Kelly at first is not
one of the killers right right right noon Sayad case Jay is confessing and telling you somebody else
is the murderer that's when it becomes serious because now you have to attack this
person you have to try to get them to confess that what they're saying is [ __ ] because you have another man's
life on the line it's different if you bring in Daman eckol or you bring in Adon and you go hey you want to confess
yes I do officer I killed them I'm the murderer okay you're at that point it's hard to get a confession we know that
right M at that point that person saying that I think you go okay well explain this and all the stuff that they're
going to tell you is going to be damning and damning and damning and and it's going to build your evidence build your
evidence but what I'm saying is in both of these cases we have these confessions
happening that are involving other individuals and at first the cops are just going that's it we got it that's
the break and and yes maybe it's not their their job now but it should always be their job no but what I mean by that
is their jobs to investigate and to make arrest what I'm getting at is that there
there's a prosecutor a judge a jury and a defense attorney that that's their job
that's their portion of what's going on you know they we don't arrest somebody and then they're marched right into
prison and left there for the rest of their life after the police slapped the cuffs on them no I understand that so
but but but but okay if that's all they're supposed to do right the other stuff is the prosecutor the other stuff
is the defense attorney the other stuff is the jury the other stuff is the judge
if that's their job and the police are just supposed to collect the information then why in both these cases
are the are the cops leading the witnesses why are they taking down confessions that they're altering why
are they discussing the cases for hours and hours on length before they hit record cuz by your definition that's not
their job their job is to just collect collect the data present it to these The Well of course yeah their
their job's not to manufacture evidence it's to collect evidence I didn't say that they're right I say that they're
right I'm talking in in the grand scheme of things as far as the Law and Order relationship goes no no I understand
that but what I'm saying is we need to put back into this idea that there is a truth and let's get to that that will
lead us to everything else but also when you have confessions that are coming against other
individuals don't lead those don't don't fabricate those statements that's it's another man's life you see what I'm
saying it's just different yeah I'm not I'm not arguing with you everybody agrees that the confessions in both
situations are completely wrong and there's nobody arguing that and anybody that would argue that is I mean I
wouldn't murder some field I wouldn't murder somebody but if somebody falsely confessed and put me involved in a crime
oh man I'd start thinking about murder a lot you know I mean can you imagine you're just sitting at your
house one day cops come knocking on your door hey what are you doing here officer
oh you're under arrest for the murder of you know what I mean MH can you imagine it's like my worst
nightmare well okay so and then that's what makes being aggressive towards the West Memphis
3 uncomfortable you know because if if we are to believe that there was an injustice done then that means that
those three guys that spent a lot of their life in prison were innocent therefore they are victims too in this
whole situation and back to the uh confession you know when we talk about Jesse Miss Kelly's con quote unquote
confession the weird thing here is you know Jay's situation and Jesse are different in the aspect
of you know just who they are their personality right so where we have Jay who sits down and might you know
everybody can be easily manipulated there's just people that are easily manipulated and then there are those
that are not I don't know Jay well enough to give you a bearing on to have a bearing on what his personality is but
as far as Jesse Melly goes the weird thing with him is you can almost get him to start off
the confession without even leading him at all and what I mean mean by that is everybody that that has spoke toward his
character before he was arrested and before he was tried for this had always said Jesse was the type of dude that he
liked to help out he he would always want to help in any situation right okay so we bring in this guy this kid to be
clear we bring in this kid and what have we told him before we sit down and you you saidwell what would it what would it
sound like if without saying a word to this guy we just hit record what what what would he say yeah and the thing is
with Jesse mcell I don't know that we could have an idea of what it would be because I get the feeling like if you
just told him and I'm sure this is let's say this was the bare minimum that they
told him I think it would still steer his thoughts and his words from the get-go all you have to do is say hey we
brought you in because we think you know something we know that you know Damen Eckles and and Jason Baldwin but
right there you're steering the that's what I mean that's what I'm getting at with him with his personality that's all
it takes we think somebody should have stopped at some point and said you know what
gentlemen I don't think this boy is all there I think you know he's only operating on
like three cylinders right and I think I think they should have but again what happens is they're
just trying to get their arrest we gota if we get their arrest it goes away right nobody's going to be hounding us
anymore you know what I mean yeah but you you we do have to keep in mind and and look it's completely wrong it's
irresponsible every there's there's not enough words to say about it the problem
is though that there are people out there that you cannot convince that somebody would confess to
something that they didn't do [Music] don't don't that it's a lot easier to confess that somebody else did
something no but you know what I mean right but in both these instances the person confessing has some form of
involvement okay so what what I'm getting at and this is this is just a scientific fact that there are people
out there that that so this is what we call real truth right there are people out there that cannot be convinced
otherwise that that people wouldn't confess to something that they didn't do which is just not true that if they gave
some form of confession whether you like it or not they had some form of involvement which I think at the first
crime con there was a interrogation room when they put you through the ringer yeah and they wanted to kind of prove to
you hey we could talk you into telling you us that you did something yeah that you didn't do it's a whole different
world though I mean you go in there and and you're you're less than human that's
just that is the the way it works I mean once you get in those cuffs you are less
than human and you have to protect yourself if you're in law enforcement so you can't I
mean I think they're for the most part just doing what other individuals would but man once you got those cuffs on you
and once they get a little little jacket on you little little pants that you don't like it
matches but it's uncomfortable scratches the privates but what I'm saying is once
you take you from that room now I know that these guys weren't in their confession rooms all
the time that way but there's a lot of individuals that they arrest put you in cuffs they put you in a room they let
you sit there for a couple hours you know sweat it out there's there's a lot of people that would
confess to something that they didn't do oh yeah and then and again it's just what but I just find
that with these two cases two huge cases um the similarity there and really I mean if you could
just figure out if Jesse Melly is telling the truth or if he's not you you solve that part of the the case and same
way with Jay you know we know that he's a liar yes but if we could but if we just hit record from the beginning what
would he what would he have said and then people always say to me well but Jay CH changed his story multiple times
well was that Jay changing the story or was that the cops going back and saying we
need this to happen instead of this to happen we need you to be in this area hey uh Jay we know that that's not true
because of the cell phone pings well maybe the cell phone pings were wrong and the problem is with with the problem
with Jesse Miss Kelly is he's just he wasn't smart enough to I mean he thought he was going to get
money so he could buy a truck I I don't think he was smart enough to I think anybody on the other side
could they could have probably said Jesse did you do it yes I did Jesse we know you didn't do it that's right I
didn't do it I think that's how that would have went well if he's innocent then his curse is being helpful you know
it's it's his curse is trying to do the right thing even even though you didn't have any involvement you know if if he
is innocent right but I I just I'd really like to hear what Jay story was from the
beginning cuz I just think that would change things would change possibly everything mhm and then
also I think here's the other issue too is how many people say you you ask what this new piece of evidence is what this
new lead is it probably is an old lead that they just didn't follow because they spent so much time falling this
other [ __ ] it's just like when with the Adon Sayad case I'm trying to constantly
say that so we can stay on track but with that case you have somebody that is dating the victim that
she was supposed to see that day work at a place he never worked and established his own
Alibi and was that not looked at because you have this liar in your chair willing
to say anything as long as you point him in that direction well going off of memory here I thought they looked at the
the uh time cards from from that shift that he worked that's what they tell you well well no no but but what I'm getting
at is the individual had it he had a time card right right every time card that that
individual ever used was electronic except for that one day when he worked in a location he never worked and it was
handwritten and it was signed no eyewitnesses no eyewitnesses but one a supervisor the problem with that
supervisor dating his mother conflict of interest well but the other the other thing
though too it's my understanding he would have had some um he he wasn't just a my understanding
he wasn't just a low-level employee that he was a manager or supervisor himself meaning that look okay if my alibi is a
time card but I'm also in charge or I have access to alter that information that alibi is
not so great you know what I mean right and in my eyes it's not nothing you know
it's wait a second you have the ability to create this H I'm just going to go with the idea that you did create it now
let let's get some eyewitnesses if you did work in this location there would have been multiple eyewitnesses that
would have remembered you because you never worked there they would have said who's the new guy you know what I mean
well he could have even been there that day and but not for the length of time that he stated exactly you know so
exactly right so on your birthday you are exactly right It's Tricky but here's here's you know you you keep going to ad
on I keep going back to West Memphis 3 he but we're just we're having fun so listen to this this is something that
that drives me crazy and I can't imagine like you know how when you when you think you've looked at a case a dozen
times and you're like well there's nothing else I can learn about this situation right and you keep learning
though so the last time I looked at at West Memphis 3 uh and I can't remember if it was something I came across or
read somewhere or however I've stumbled upon this I did the the just the fact that there were two Jason Baldwins
living in that same area at the same time blew my mind completely not because Jason Baldwin's a you know an extremely
unique name it's just the fact that okay you have all these officers and investigators out talking canvasing the
talking to everybody in the neighborhood talking to people in daman's neighborhood so on and so forth and any
statement where you take the name Jason Baldwin down in your notes were they specifically asking the individual
that's giving them information which Jason Baldwin are you talking about right are you talking about Jason
Baldwin a or Jason Baldwin B because it gets very confusing when you have two guys with the same name and I say funny
thing I only I mean funny in a in a weird way right right but you know we I mentioned that questionnaire that gell
came up with for the officers to ask everybody gel is such a character when they you know what's weird too is you're
going to steer me down a different path um there's like there's a lot of people that are extremely angry at gel I don't
know what it is I'm not saying I like the cut of his jib or anything like that no he's a bad cut I mean I I right but I
have a hard time like hating him for some reason like you know like FY Malik easy to hate I don't know what it is
about gell that that I don't find myself hating him well first of all ease up on
the dead son uh second of all he's dead put a little respect on his name um here's the
problem with gel is um he thinks he's the smartest man in the room and he thinks he knows
everything and that's the problem with them that's why when you know uh on a scale of 1 to 10 how good is your case
11 right you're a [ __ ] Son Well I use [ __ ] I like some interviews I've seen with him uh you know 10 years later 15
years later where he says stuff like I if I could go back in time and change one thing in my career it would be I
should have never said he's it was just dumb that I said that he said it like something that popped in his head and he
was just excited that they made an arrest and he and he did a dumb thing yeah and look I mean the here's the
thing it's like you said a lot of these individuals will watch that and go well he's kind of a pop his ass and all this
stuff here's what here's what we do know about Kel is he was trying he was doing
the best he could I believe right again maybe with some blinders on no you're right but who's
doing the best he could because there's three boys that died yeah three 8-year-old boys we're not talking you
know it's just there there's a reason why there's children cases that people skip they don't listen to those well
keep in mind what what did we say on our show um it was like 18 19 21 days after
the murders before he received the autopsy back right like and and he was asking them time and time again hey I
need this information so we can investigate this case is getting colder and colder by the day yeah can you
imagine these are the individuals that had to go and pull them out of the water and he's then told hey um we can't give
you the autopsy just yet when it's done we'll give it to you and then he even has to come back like two weeks into the
investigation and say to the corner to the medical examiner and say well if you can't give us the autopsy at this time
can you at least answer these questions question for me and the the medical examiner is like well can you submit
them in writing and I'll get them back to you and it's like [ __ ] gel was playing with with two arms tied behind
his back now I do fault him quite a bit for the Miss Kelly confession I mean he he he played that kid like a fiddle
and um I was in Texas for the last week so fiddle is in my vocab uh shoot what was I saying okay so
we talked about Jason Baldwin there being two of them oh yeah the questionnaire the questionnaire so when
Damian was asked those same questions one of the questions was who do you think did this or who do you think would
know who did this something along those lines I don't know Verbatim what it was but his answer his answer was Jason
Baldwin which is weird because is that a is is that Damen Eckles being funny and
being like Oh jokingly I I I know my best friend's Innocent but I'm going to bring up his name just to be a jackass
right or or or does he know that you're questioning both of us anyways and at this point I'm tired of you questioning
us so no but the rumor is that the other Jason Baldwin he had had run-ins with Damien had had run-ins with that dude
and and he was kind of a known to be a violent dude uh and he was can you imagine he
was like a big bu if Jason Baldwin was responsible for the murders but it was the other Jason Baldwin right the big
bully Jason Baldwin and it's the younger Jason Baldwin that solves the case ooh all right my my head just exploded I
can't I can't do anything else I'm G shotgun this beer all right well happy birthday God you're old extra crispy
everybody thinks you sound like an old fat man and look me up online I'm I'm quite fit fit like a fiddle that's right
he's actually fit as a fiddle he's very he's as fit as a fiddle very trim follow us on Instagram so you can
see the very trim crisp crispy konel extra [Music] [Applause] crispy

WM3 & Adnan Syed /// Off The Record /// Episode #21savage Recorded: 9-17-2018 It's Nic's Birthday. We talk West Memphis 3 and Adnan Syed. www.truecrimegarage.com #truecrime #truecrimepodcast #wm3 #adnansyed #crimejunkie #law&crime

Brief Summary

Hosts discuss updates on the West Memphis 3 case, focusing on Jason Baldwin's involvement and the emotional toll of the unresolved murders.

Key points

West Memphis 3 Discussion. The hosts reflect on the West Memphis 3 case and its ongoing implications.
Jason Baldwin's Involvement. Discussion about Jason Baldwin's active role in the investigation and his frustrations.
Injustice of the Case. Exploration of the injustices faced by the West Memphis 3 and the murdered boys.
The Killer's Name on the List?. A discussion unfolds about whether the killer's name might be on a list of suspects.
Confessions and Manipulation. The conversation dives into how confessions can be manipulated by law enforcement.
The Pressure to Solve Cases. The pressure on law enforcement to solve cases can lead to unethical practices.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's a touchy subject.

5:11WatchJan 29, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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