Brittany Phillips /// Part 2 /// 733 | Forensic Files

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[Music] cry [Music] detective Jeff Felton worked this case from day one from minute one we talked
about him a couple of times on episode one he said many times that he brought this case home with him staring at the
case File all night long looking at it from all sort of different angles he and his colleagues conducted canvases
interviews and even publicity campaigns for this unsolved murder case now early on Maggie Britney's mother expressed
great satisfaction with this investigation she even posted on her blog quote I am lucky our detectives
followed the typical profile someone she knew old boyfriends all males who had contact public service
or might have had her address end quote of course they had to look at classmates
like you talked about in part one Captain co-workers former co-workers men who lived in the apartment complex and
so on so this is not an easy task this is not something that you're going to be able to do in over the course of a day
or a week this is a huge task by about a year out about a year after the murder Maggie says that police had executed
numerous search warrants and interviewed a lot of people for this case eventually
detective Felton became very frustrated with the case mainly because all of this
work all of this investigation failed to flush out a suspect right the investigators started to believe that
maybe the killer was someone that Britney didn't know and that was why it was so hard to connect perpetrator to
victim when the murderer doesn't know the victim it almost makes the case so much more complicated yes you see it
once or twice a week it feels like these days in the news where there's some 30 40 25-year-old Cold Case homicide that
they say oh we solved it based off of DNA the guy wasn't even in the file or we we still don't know exactly how this
man knew her yeah and we're not kidding ourselves sometimes these investigations
are just not thorough and sometimes they just don't work the case as hard as they
should I would say the majority of these cases they're worked hard they do their
due diligence but because the victim didn't know their murderer it becomes like a very complicated riddle and so
like you said some of these individuals their names were never in the file when you have a situation where you start to
think or have reason to believe that maybe the victim did not know the attacker then you go okay we probably
should be putting together a profile of the killer that's exactly what Tulsa PD did in this case and they released a
portion of that profile of the killer to the public it's it's pretty generic but
stay with me here everybody so their profile reads as follows someone who was a night out okay that makes some sense
here because it's definitely a possibility when the police are working under the idea that this attack took
place between 1 p.m. on the 27th and their statement is sometime in the early morning hours of the 28th right so this
is a third shift attacker if you will also possibly someone who traveled Interstate 35 Interstate 44 or I40
roadways around Tulsa often now this I'm wondering if this has to do with the proximity of the apartment complex to
those interstates they did say it could be somebody with anger issues and possibly sexual problems or
irregularities someone who possibly worked as a public service provider such as a cable installer Gas Company
employee phone company worker and so on and we talked about that with to me here
Captain when it when I see an investigation like this where the social Circle doesn't seem to flush out a a
suspect or point to anybody we've covered these kind of cases before I feel like this is somebody that
has some kind of ties to this apartment complex it's it could be a resident could be a vendor or worst case scenario
for your investigation it might just be some complete stranger who knows you know what the type of victim I'm looking
for is a young woman they got a lot of those young women young single women living alone in that big apartment
complex over there yeah and then it makes you wonder and this might be a leap but you got a lot of students that
go to that Community College that live there somebody that works at the college hears hey well you know a lot of the
students live in this apartment complex again well I know what type of victim I'm looking for go there KJ RH news
reported that tulso homicide detective Vic ragal he was one of the individuals working on Britney's case as well he
seemed to firmly believe that Britney's killer was some type of stalker so his words from the good detective says quote
whoever murdered her that night more than likely had seen her before and knew that she lived in that apartment end
quote now I know it sounds like I'm talking on both sides of my face here with this investigation
but he's not necessarily that Britney knew her attack he's simply saying that if it were to be a stalker it is his
belief from what he's seen in the investigation that the person that murdered her that night had seen her
before and knew that she lived in that apartment that does he may not have even known her name but saw her and decided
you know what that's the hunter that's my prey and and I might watch her for a little bit to to get a little Intel
about her her lifestyle her comings and goings her routines yeah and he's not saying that this individual stocked her
for a long period of time or even make contact with her I think the term stalker maybe confuses people a little
bit but I think like you said you you have a guy installing cable next door and sees her and then just keeps an eye
out on her or follows her home one night well and when you have a potential stranger on Stranger crime like this
homicide with a sexual assault not only do you do a profile of the killer but you do the old pervert Roundup and so we
can see here in our examination of this investigation that they did their due diligence uh the detective came up with
276 suspects who who either lived in the apartment complex or near this apartment
complex these were sex offenders and you know what that is right that's a lot of
perverts mhm the old pervert Roundup at one time it was just it was just the Pervert Roundup and then it had happened
for so many years and times that it it's old hat I think I think in episode 12 we
said pervert Roundup and ever since then it's been the old yeah maybe you can answer answer this question for me cuz I
wasn't clear in my research it seems like the the Tulsa Police Department they're the ones
that did the profile is there any indication that they reach out to the FBI in this case so the Tulsa Police dep
department they released the profile my guess would be that yes that a local they probably sent somebody from the
local branch to review the case file review what their findings were the evidence and such and and a lot of times
what you will see is I love when people call in another agency to get other eyes
two heads are better than one especially in homicide investigations and a lot of times you
know we paint this picture like the FBI is so much smarter than the local detectives a lot of times what I've
found in these cases Captain is the FBI is confirming what the suspicions of the
detectives already had you know they're they're back they're finding a lot of the same things here now back to these
sex offenders there's varying degrees of the sex offenders they're not going to all be violent individuals and
to clear that up we have the detectives words who says quote I'm talking thefts of women women's underwear I'm talking
peeping Toms I'm talking rapes So within that 26 276 people there's varying degrees of of what kind of gross crimes
these these guys have been a part of well I think this is a true statement when it's a sexually motivated crime
those individuals seem to escalate over time yeah a lot of times they will start
off as a Peeping Tom or and then graduate to breaking into the home or apartment and stealing something of the
the woman's and and as you said it sometimes they don't escalate and other times they do here's this is so smart
here so continuing on here all the men that we just talked about the 276 were investigated they police talked to all
of them the detective Jeff Felton he engineered the creation of a searchable database just for this case right so
this is so police can track the leads the tips Persons of Interest and DNA rule outs we're going to have them
approaching people and we'll get into DNA here in a minute with this case but here's the thing that I wanted to
underline that was so smart by these detectives remember a couple years back when we talked to uh an FBI agent who
specialized in sexual assaults and and sexually motivated murders he said that a lot of
times rapist get picked up on burglary charges because they're they're unsuccessful in the rape they get they
get the police are called or homeowner puts up a fight or pulls a gun on them and they just simply get arrested for
being in the home they broke into the home snuck into the home that's what they get caught for but because they
didn't sexually assault anybody or get to even the portion of the crime where crimes where they're attempting to do so
they get labeled as a burglar MH well well these detectives are saying we we went through reports regularly looking
not just for rapists and sex offenders at looking for burglars who were arrested in the area in the middle they
they're in the home or residents at odd hours the middle of the night question so you said there was 270 some during
the Pervert Roundup is that including possibly these break in uh these robbers or is the robbers on top of the Pervert
Roundup this these are additions to the list so from my understanding the 276 is
simply you punch in proximity to this apartment and figure out how many sex offenders live in a certain mile radius
from there that's your 276 now think about that for a second 276 plus I don't know how many more
people they added to that but look I'm quick to call out when somebody's a piece of [ __ ] I'm quick to call somebody
a douche canoe you got to tip your hat though to these investigators one you did the Pervert Roundup and then like
you said we know that it's a crime that escalates so the people that possibly broke into houses maybe they were there
to do something more nefarious so we're going to look at them too but to question all those individuals to track
down all those individuals that's a task so my hat's off to them and if anybody's out there
going whoa that's an alarming number of sex offenders in that area we we need to
be clear here we do not know how large of a scale they were looking at their words detectives words were that lived
in that apartment complex or near that apartment complex near to the detectives could mean a quarter of a mile or it
could mean within 10 miles or we don't really know exactly how far they fanned out uh in their search now
one thing police did have on their side Captain was DNA it's 2004 when this case
goes down the DNA analysis was readily available at that time obviously the investigators thank OJ for that they're
going to decide that DNA was going to be their best evidence and they wanted to use it for elimination purposes and we
already touched on that a little bit by informing everyone that they had a DAT one of the criteria on their database
was DNA rule outs okay so this person is on our list for reasons a b and c were they cleared by DNA y yay or nay and so
really what this is going to amount to is remember they found that seamen stain on Britney's bedding and the blood
droplet on the wall the two samples are consistent meaning they came from the same person so this DNA male DNA profile
is entered into codus but they find no matches they get no matches so this means now basically we're going to do a
DNA drag net we're just going to start asking everybody that that's name is in the case File or on this database to
submit their DNA which reportedly there were only a few people that declined which will immediately raise red flags
but it it sounds like they took the DNA of many many individuals there was another angle that they were going to be
working here as well Captain this this comes about in August of 2005 they put together a $5,000 reward with this
reward fund for information whether any tips came in only the police know that's
not information that they've released to us or to the public in 2007 we get tsop PD they decide a new
angle on this investigation right they're going to hit us with some new information asking the public for help
detective Felton at this time is still leading the investigation so he goes public with photos of a pillowcase that
was found in Britney's apartment the detective is saying we believe that it's possibility that this pillowcase
belonged to the killer that they brought it with them to the scene for one reason
or another now to be clear they suspected this because it did not match any of her other Linens or bedding but
she's also 18 years old we've you know everybody can remember their first apartment A lot of times you're just
getting things and items from wherever you can a lot of hand-me-downs so there's nothing about
this pillowcase that is specific enough to tell us that it's a direct specific connection to the attacker or killer
other than it's just simply a pillowcase of unknown Origins right the key here Captain is the
detective in charge thinks that this could be a potential lead and he tells the media look sometimes
burglars maybe we have somebody that was attempting to break into cars or apartments and steal things and may not
have gone out that night with the intention of sexually assaulting and killing someone but maybe they brought
this with them because as we know burglars will sometimes they use things like a pillowcase to grab items and and
carry them with them when they're fleeing from a scene yeah and like we know she got home a little later did
they go out when it was dark they're hey what better place to break in what better place to go look into
break into cars than apartment complex cuz there's a bunch of cars and and they're all in one location and so he's
out and about looking to commit a crime like that and sees Britney come home and
goes well now now my motivation has changed well and there was no label or brand
name for this this pillowcase but it was uni does that mean that the the individual cutout the label well I don't
know why there was no label or brand name I'm I'm assuming that there would have been a label at one time did it did
it fall fall off or was it purposely removed I can't say but what I can say is that the detective believed that the
pillowcase was unique enough that maybe somebody would recognize it and be able to
identify where it came from or or who it may have belonged to unfortunately that that was 2007 and as
we know all these years later pillowcase idea good idea but it it failed to bring
forth any information but but this is like what you were saying about hey we did the Pervert Roundup okay that that
happens in most cases okay we're going to go a step further let's let's look into individuals that were caught
breaking into a house and then this pillowcase idea these are they're not just sitting around hoping
that leads come to them they're working every angle that they can think of it it
shows the level of one in intelligence um you know sophistication and their their due diligence you know I
know we use that word a lot but you know they're looking at this case in every angle and here too is a bit of a concern
for the family and I would think for detectives as well and this is something that Britney's mother Maggie learned so
she learns and I don't have specific details but her words are I was horrified that years after my daughter's
murder I found out that several sketchy incidents occurred at the Glenn Eagles apartment complex and she references a
specific time she says whatever these incidents were went down about eight months before her daughter
Britney moved in and no one told her or Britney about these situations and then to expand on that
and go a little further out she's saying also after my daughter was murder murdered I
learned that they weren't telling any of the new people moving in the new tenants
moving in that a murder and unsolved murder had taken place in this apartment complex well that's not just a need to
know situation for people moving in for their own safety it's also a need to know for if you see something say
something you know if you hear if you get told something or you hear a rumor or there's some guy lurking in the
parking lot night after night it could have prevented new information to reaching
police or getting reported sometimes people don't know how serious something can be because they are unaware that
something serious really serious happened in that same location right um but shout out to Maggie she doesn't give
up this this woman is a fighter very smart very brave and leading the charge as you will see to get Justice for her
daughter a young woman who she described as her best friend she ends up putting up some Billboards
advertising and asking for information in her daughter's case and she did this with the help of a
company called Lamar Outdoor Advertising which oddly enough Captain we we were lucky enough to put up a billboard in
Ohio and that is the company same company that we used I don't know how many Billboard companies there are but
shout out to Lamar company because it's my understanding that they helped her as
far as a lot of the financials go with with putting up these Billboards in this same
Year Maggie decides to take things up a notch all right Crank It Up to 11 so in 2007 this is after the thir anniversary
of the murder Maggie launched her Caravan To Catch a killer a national campaign to
generate tips on her daughter's case and to help save other people's daughters so she got a Rav 4 SUV custom wrapped in
multiple large scale photos of Britney and information about the unsolved murder and tipline phone number all
wrapped around this SUV and bright pink and purple colors which she says were her daughter's favorite colors and also
deliberately eye-catching and her goal was like look this case has been in the media at the local level I put up these
billboards with the help of the good people at Lamar we're still not getting anywhere my daughter's case has not gone
National I'm going to put it all over this Rav 4 and I'm going to drive this vehicle to different states through
different cities and see if anybody sees something somewhere because who knows if
if you have somebody that was just working in the area maybe maybe they're not there permanently they just happen
to be working in the area for a week several months or what have you they may other than that may have little ties to
the City of Tulsa so during the what is what's coming up to 20 years since the murder yeah her mother has
traveled the country she she says that she's put as much as 300,000 miles that she's traveled and during that time of
course talking to people about about about Britney so it's driving all over the country and that's one of the ways
that we became aware of this still unsolved homicide was last year one of the trips that the Caravan
made from Oklahoma was to Orlando Florida to last year's crime con where Maggie put all of the case information
that she could on broch shores and passed them out to the True Crime podcasters at crime
conon last year let's jump back to the fifth anniversary here Captain because this was a a significant report this
again from kjrh news that we referenced earlier this is 2009 now and it reads it's been five years since Tulsa college
student Britney Phillips was brutally murdered inside her apartment and still the case remains unsolved in the past 5
years DNA from the crime scene has been checked against thousands of potential Suspects but there have been no matches
investigators now suspect Britney may not have known her attacker police labeled the murder a sex crime
suspecting that some unknown man targeted her raped her and murdered her Maggie Britney's mother told Tulsa
World that she never expected her daughter's case to remain unsolved at the 5-year Mark however she still had
faith in the efforts put in by the also police department she said quote they have turned over every stone they have
done everything they could do to keep it from becoming a cold case and that is what scares me I'm starting to realize
we may never solve this case end quote so as we just heard the investigators they're testing the crime scene DNA
against ultimately thousands of potential suspects according to that report most of these were just men who
lived or worked in the area but several were men who were very promising suspects two of these were brothers who
lived nearby and had been interested in her and now it's unclear what that means
but that's the information we have then there was a guy whom Britney had blocked
from her phone and email this was a security guard in her apartment complex whom Britney had gone on a single date
with I I'm take I'm sorting it out here captain that this date may not have gone
very well because ultimately she ends up blocking him from her phone and from email he was one of the individuals that
refused to give a DNA sample by the way now police obtained a search warrant to collect a buckle swab so if if you're
not going to give it to us willingly if we got enough on you we might be able to
get a judge to sign off on a document stating that you are required by by law to give us your DNA and they get this
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for you [Music] all right we are back cheers mates onward and upwards cheers to you Colonel cheers to
you captain now when we started off episode one I had made the statement that this is a bit of a messy case and I
said I think that most will agree with me when we get into some of the details here's to me where the details start
making this what I would refer to as a messy case so they're getting all this DNA ruling
people out getting search warrants to mandate that somebody has to give their DNA but one thing
is of course the Public's going to assume you have a rape murder case where the DNA came from but they never
publicly addressed exactly what the source was of the suspect DNA that they are using for comparison right we know
that it came from some bedding well not just bedding but also the the blood evidence exactly exactly
we know it came from the bedding and from the blood on the wall but this this is going to become very important as as
we continue on here so this is where I want to highlight Britney's mother Maggie here a little bit and the good
work that she's not only done for her daughter and attempts to get Justice for her daughter
but this she's thinking on the large scale here she's she's attempting to solve other cases too or help police to
solve other cases as well for other people's people's daughters so around the same time Maggie's very vocal about
her concerns that the killer had likely killed before or since and has slipped through the cracks
of the justice system somehow yeah what we're looking at is a serial killer she starts pushing
for legislation to allow Oklahoma Police to obtain DNA upon felony arrest so at the time you know we we know that this
is something that is going on and happening pretty regularly in in certain States and in certain jurisdictions but
not every state in back then it was not happening in Oklahoma so she is at the front of the line pushing for this
legislation well we see that not all the times but again she became uh activist for her daughter and then in turn became
an activist for every victim exactly that that's exactly right now it does take it did take a good amount of time
unfortunately the law did eventually pass in 2016 after Maggie was working this for so many years and now she's
pushing and helping others to make sure that this legislation will become a similar law in
other states she she says it should be something that we should be doing in all 50 states yeah I agree because because
people move and look criminals find out oh well heck man if I get caught breaking into one of these places and I
get arrested on a felony then they get my DNA boom now I'm connected to these other rapes possibly other
murders if I move to a state that doesn't do that because like we said good chances
are she didn't know the individual that killed her so if if I'm you know a murderer
and I'm committing other crimes I'm going well let me go to a state where they can't collect my DNA now we're
going to start talking about forensic genealogy okay so we have as you said the DNA samples according to law
enforcement in this case a comparison of 3,000 is the number that they have stated to the
public okay so three ,000 that's that's a crazy amount of people but this as you
said Captain this is this is everyone they could think of even people she went to high school
with people that she went college with in Florida and then the Pervert Roundup as
you said so they said that they obtained DNA samples from upwards of 2,000 men in
a square mile of Britney's Apartment 250 from what he called viable suspect that I'm guessing that's the sex
offender list the um and at the end of the day they're saying that the number Rose to about 3,000 men that they tested
this DNA against and due to all these efforts they're confused and completely mindblown that this did not lead them to
the killer that the killer had never been caught using this DNA Dragnet that they were doing so in 2018 the tulso PD
Cold Case detective his name is Eddie Majors he took the same physical evidence in the case that they had been
using the Seaman stain on the sheets and the blood on the wall and used it to create SNP DNA profile of the suspected
killer you've heard us talk about this before if you're a longtime listener sometimes it's referred to as snapshot
DNA this is when they're going to they take parabon Nano Labs is really great at doing this it's it's what they call a
phenotype so they create a phenotype image of the suspect based it's a computer generated image based on what
his genetic makeup indicated the killer would look like so this includes things like skin color hair and eye color face
shape freckling and so on now it cannot determine n age obviously facial hair weight or other variables but we've seen
this in the hammer Slayer case from Aurora we've seen this in in in many cases they do this phenotyping for
Britney's case they get the snapshot DNA image and the imag is of a blonde young
man with green or blue eyes and a pointy chin also a little background here saying that the suspect the killer was
primarily of northern European ancestry Maggie wrapped her car again this time in the image of that
suspect and many tips were getting called in now naming the person saying oh I know who who somebody that looks
just like that I know somebody that kind of fits the profile and looks a lot like
that image that you have here well see that seems again like and I I feel like I sound like a broken record but here's
law enforcement and a case doing every angle that they can and then because of their work and because
of going the extra mile now we have new leads hey go look into this individual so did anything come up of them looking
into these leads yes and actually they as said people were naming this person and what this ultimately leads them
to is an individual they ask him for DNA he agrees to DNA they get a buckle swab
and they find out it's a match his DNA matched the DNA that they had been looking for all this time so
this is a he's referred to as a Green County man and for reasons that will soon be clear to everyone he's not
named okay it's determined that he was the boyfriend of Britney's best friend at the time of her
murder the friend Britney's friend and her boyfriend lived in Collinsville and not in
Tulsa they came over for a a visit they stayed over and during that time Britney allowed them to stay in her
bedroom sleep in her bedroom I'll take the couch you guys are the guests sleep in the
bedroom this after interviewing this young young man they figure out that he and his girlfriend they had sex in that
bed while they stayed there MH and he says that's how the Seaman was on the sheets I don't have any clue how there
would be a small drop of my blood on a wall he did reference that that he thought maybe he had had a bloody nose
keep in mind he's being interviewed and asked about this 14 years after the murder and I'm sure that law enforcement
because like we said this detective unit is they're not ones to just stop stop their investigation so I'm
sure that once they talk to him they end up talking to his one-time girlfriend to
confirm some of what he was saying yeah and I don't know this this status of their relationship they could still be
together for all we know but because the man is not named but here's here's where
my mind goes to we spent so much time and I believe rightfully so on all the efforts of the detectives and how
thorough of an investigation they were doing meanwhile we find out 14 years later the DNA they were looking for the
whole time matches Britney's best friend's boyfriend that this guy is two degrees from the from the murder victim
right and so then it that makes me question the thoroughness of the investigation look people do slip
through the CRA the cracks um yeah but if you're a detective you're getting this information from the the medical
examiners right and and so because there's a misstep at basically step one then everything that you look into I mean
could you imagine the frustration we rounded up all these people and and we're eliminating these
people and and did they test the right guy and and for whatever reason he was scared scared and gave him their D he
the guy was scared gave his DNA and when it comes back oh you don't match he was
going oh thank God and and then he's probably wondering well how come I didn't match well because they didn't
get the right sample and again this this goes back to the rape kit why wasn't there a rape kit done
because again like you said every angle because you know and I'm not trying to throw [ __ ]
you know at Britney or anything else but you have a a single female let's just I
I'll just put myself in this situation if I was single and I was dating multiple people or talking to different
people there's a possibility that you would find you know evidence of multiple individuals being
in my bed does that make sense so it doesn't even have to be that she she let she shared her her bed and that's how
they found this this evidence you know it could have been somebody else that she was seeing and then let's just say
it was you know remember how she was talking to her old high school boyfriend what if they became intimate
and then the detectives tested that sample and went well it matches this guy that she's been seeing and then they
could put a case together against him and boom this guy was locked away for the rest of his life because they didn't
collect the correct sample exactly you're exactly right the short of it is the DNA evidence that they were using
this entire time to lead them to the suspect to find the guy the killer was wrong and so it led them to the wrong
man and it also begs the question why on Earth did Tulsa PD prioritize the cement sample on the
bedding rather than a rape kit taken from Britney's body at autopsy it doesn't make any damn sense well and
then think about this Captain th this is the nightmare of the situation this new DNA Prof they they
come up with a new DNA profile we'll get into that here in a minute but this the
old one uhuh when you're using that one and it's the wrong one mhm and you've tested up to 3,000 people per their
words there's a chance you may have tested the real killer and he didn't match well that's what I said yeah and
then and but could you imagine also just because of people not doing their job correctly then the the
mother of the victim of the raped murdered victim is driving around with this image on her car
thinking that this is the image of the Killer and then once they once they get a
match it's a a story that's pretty you know easy to eliminate him why didn't you do again I
mean this is just ridiculous I mean and I hate to like because this sounds disgusting but it's like what if you
found multiple you know samples of seen around the room it's like okay what those don't
matter the what matters is that we know that she was strangled is there DNA on her body is there touch
DNA is there again why wasn't there a rape kit done well H hang on a second now we we can sit here and be as enraged
as we want to be and inv vent as long as we want but they answer that so in 20 22 that they're going to address that
issue and what they're saying is the reason why we prioritized the Seaman sample found on the bedding was that the
they were unable to obtain a sufficient amount of DNA from the genal swabs taken
from the body at autopsy and so technology obviously is getting better as this case is getting colder and now
they are able to prioritize DNA that they that they weren't looking at back in 2004 and 2005
Unfortunately they went down all these wrong roads 3,000 of them mind you uh in the meantime and once technology had
caught up to where they could use other samples who knows how long it sat unknown that they should be using the
other DNA yeah to be fair to them yeah now what we do know is they are using other DNA that they that that is of The
Killers it does not match it doesn't match the individual that we just discussed at length right um so he is
not the killer um the the other thing too but what what tipped them off was not just the story you know they're
detectives they're not just going to believe oh you were there and had sex with your girlfriend that's convenient
right no they put together and in the timeline they said that he he physically could not have been in that location
remember they lived out of town and he had there were multiple um persons backing up an alibi for that
individual and so you you start to look at this and you can't have two things that are both factual that are are
giving you different results right you can't have DNA that puts him at the scene as the killer but also a million
reasons why he physically could not have been there in the time that she was killed right and and to also uh defend I
I know now I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth but also to defend law enforcement they found Seaman and they
found a drop of blood so what's the chances of that happening you know so and we are allowed
to talk out of both sides of our face that's why we typically do two episodes do you want to hear one of the
strangest things this is one of the stranger things that we've come across in any case so we'll get back to the DNA
here in a minute last year there is this strange new evidence that comes about all of a sudden in this case
and it comes from a what what's my favorite thing in in these cold cases what is it a letter this comes
from a letter oh no I thought you were going to do transfer evidence oh oh yeah that's my other favorite thing transfer
evidence letter okay yeah letter is your number one favorite yeah any case with a
letter we'll cover remember the kids grew up in Florida remember Mom and Dad were married in Florida they move around
a little bit and Mom and Dad separate mhm Britney was not particularly close with her father it sounds like he was
estrange from the family it sounds like Britney made efforts to keep a relationship with her
father she he had sent a birthday card the father received it and never really did anything with this so to be clear
it's actually a a it was a birthday card to her grandfather she mailed it to her
dad for him to give to his dad right makes sense I believe the way The Story Goes is he placed it in a box or in a
drawer or a closet or somewhere and forgot all about it he's he hears that his daughter's been killed he's upset
and he's got this card he never he just kind of tucked it away somewhere and then in his grief forgot all about it
all these years go by and he's he finds this letter and opens it up and the card
is in Britney's handwriting saying I love you happy birthday sorry if this arrives late love Britney very short
sweet message to his father whose birthday would have been September 14th the card did arrive late but what's
remarkable about this and when Dad finds this card and gives it to Maggie remember Maggie is the champion
here in the story she's the one that's going to find and get Justice for her daughter she sees this card realizes
it's her daughter's handwriting saying that it's you know it's a dress from Britney and everything her eyes about
pop out of her head when she sees the envelope the envelope the white postage office stamp
so anybody that's used one of those Pitney bows or the where you pay for a service or you
buy a digitized stamp rather than put an actual stamp on it they'll be familiar with this so this is a a machine made
the postage stamp well it puts a date on those and the reason why this is significant is
the postal stamp is dated September 29th and we don't have a date or time of death but this
is technically two days after it's believed that Britney was killed and murdered so the the purchase of this
stamp is September 29th and then when it gets stamped again going through the mail it's it's marked as September 29th
so it appears based off of that information that this letter was mailed 2 days after she was killed now could it
have gotten stuck on a conveyor belt maybe but the problem with that part is this stamp was paid for somebody paid
for this stamp on the 29th so the conveyor belt thing doesn't hold a whole lot of
water what okay so what this could indicate is did she did she give this card to somebody and say oh by the way
oh friend you're going to the post office tomorrow tomorrow or later today could you take this for me and they just
didn't get around to it for a couple days it's it's hard to say because this information is coming out 2023 and she's
killed in 20 in 2004 so 19 years later maybe somebody just forgot but the other thing that could point to remember what
did the medical examiner say that he noticed when he when he walked into the bedroom where she was killed and where
the body was found somebody had taken the time to place towels over top of the victim mhm we
know the psychology of that is some form of remorse and typically that only happens when perpetrator knows the
victim cares for the victim would this person have cared enough to mail the letter the
card it's all very strange well and like you said it could be also something very simple did she go
to the post office and they stamped it and she put it in the Box herself and then it got stuck on the side of the
box I mean there's a drop box at our post office and and I know things can get stuck or
they kind of go down the wrong shoot and they fall out of whatever bag is supposed to collect them I know it's
happened to us many times when we're shipping out orders so is it just something as simple as
that um but very very St strange you also have to wonder is there any chance they got the time of death
wrong you know we well they basing that on science well they got this sample wrong so and somebody pointed out to me
that look A lot of times these you can purchase these this postage at kiosk and a lot of these kiosk are often times
located on college campuses right I would told that pickup time for the for the mail there was early
afternoon I don't know it's I can't really wrap my head around this whole idea but it it is very strange that we
are told that she was killed late the 27th early the 28th and this this postage is purchased the 29th but now
that we have the right sample hope hopefully they can go back they they have the samples I mean
they got 3,000 samples to test against so start taking you know some other leads that you got and other information
you got from those interviews and and start testing you know the people that were on top of your list to begin
with and then again we can go back if those tests don't match we can go back through the genealogy route too so I
think this is like you said I mean I hate to get people's hopes up but I think well this is just a matter of
time before this individual is caught and I would not be surprised if this person is a is come to find that they're
a serial killer and they're actually responsible for for multiple deaths yeah and that goes back to what Maggie
suspicions were and now that we know that they were chasing the wrong DNA for all that time you could have a situation
where yes they they have attacked and killed since if they hadn't before Britney maybe since Britney as well and
I I'm with you Captain I feel like this new evidence the proper evidence that they're now testing is going to lead to
an arrest and a conviction as we said already Maggie was recently at crime Con in Orlando in September 2023 there to
raise awareness for her daughter's case that's where we met her and agreed to I I told Maggie to her face we we will be
covering your daughter's case as as soon as we can and look she's becoming more and more frustrated as the 20th
anniversary of her daughter's death approaches and that will be later this year unfortunately we wanted to do as
much as we could to help spread the word about this still unsolved case and keep
in mind at the local level and Oklahoma there's also still to this day a misconception that the case has been
solved because you know it's blasted on the news at some point that they found a DNA
match right and thank God that they didn't name this individual because I mean even just being accused of
something that heinous um had to take a toll on that individual and to expand on that profile
a little bit you know once in a while I like to do a little garage profile I think that there's some things that are
probably pretty spoton with their profile even as generic as it is but they're generic for a reason the most
logical explanation to me I think that the killer watch was watching her now for
how long of was that I don't know but it also I've reviewed a lot of information
that it seems to be that the the police believe that and they're not just pulling stuff
out of thin air that they they must have some reason to believe this that that it seems most likely to
them that she did not know her killer and they they seem to be hardcore on this theory that he was lying in weight
of her he was waiting for her either I I don't know necessarily that that means that he was already in the apartment MH
but she comes home it's late at night she's got to climb up those stairs all the way to that apart
he could have ambushed her anywhere or pushed his way into an apartment let's not forget Richard
Ramirez the nightstalker two of his victims one of them survived thank God but two of his victims he simply spotted
the woman driving home and decided to follow her and watches her get out of her car she goes into her house where
she shares with a roommate and had not had enough time to close the garage door behind her and he just
simply went in after her and I know of other cases as well where somebody follows somebody from a
parking lot and pushes their way in or somebody goes up to their apartment door opens up the door and has items in their
hands to put down goes to put them down on the countertop hasn't closed the door behind
them and turns around and see somebody standing in the doorway yeah I think this this person has some tie there's
some tie to this apartment complex to this individual either they lived there they had worked there uh or did work
there as some type of vender or this was a hunting ground for some kind of sexual
predator some kind of sex offender as of November of 2023 so leading up to late last year
unfortunately Tulsa had a horrifying backlog of untested rape kits these some of these
dating back as far as the early 90s from my understanding Captain late last year
November of 2023 the crime lab started testing these untested kits so they started with a
number of over 3,000 untested and now have tested close to 1,500 of those rape kits so it will be very
interesting to see whether the material sorry it will be very interesting to see
if the new DNA the correct DNA that they are using in Britney's case if it could
match any of those kits as they keep testing them and if anybody has any information do we have a way
that I mean first of all you should call law enforcement but but is there another place that they could reach out
to we have a we have a few different ways for you to submit a tip in this case and I do want to point out Maggie
her mother says look there's no tip that is too small there is no silly tips so don't think that you're you're being
silly don't be embarrassed if you think you have any information at all they want to hear from you there's a homicide
tip line 9187 98 8477 or you can email homicide at cityoftulsa.org there's a Crim Stoppers
number if you want to be anonymous 91 18596 cops CS again no tip is too small if you have
information please reach out to Tulsa PD using any of those methods [Music] you could be anywhere in the world but
you're here so that makes you our friend also means you probably need therapy but
we want to thank you so much for listening thanks for telling a friend Colonel do we have any recommended
reading for the beautiful beautiful listeners we do this is going to be more of a recommended reading for those that
want to do a deep dive or followup on this case I'm recommending that everybody go to Britney Phillips murder.
net her family and all the people that are advocating for her and for her family and her mother put together an
amazing website that is devoted to getting this case solved and it's filled with information about this case and
it's it's rare you know you and I we've covered so many cases here Captain but it's rare to see this type of website
devoted to to a case so I recommend that everybody go and check it out again that's Britney Phillips murder. net and
see how you can get involved see if you can help and I I I feel very good about this case because I think after all
these years that we might have a little light at the end of the tunnel here and I think we're getting closer to that
light so I hope all of you join us by going to this website and check it out you can find that recommendation and
many more on our recommended page on our website True Crime garage.com and if you'd like to hang out with us live
we're going to be at crime con UK and crime con USA crimecon USA is going to take place in Nashville and kmec con UK
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garage until next week be good be kind don't you [Music] litter [Music]

Brittany Phillips /// Part 2 /// 733

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Tulsa, Oklahoma - In late September of 2004 someone attacked 18 year old Brittany Phillips in her apartment. Dr. Maggie Zingman, Brittany’s mother has led the charge looking for answers and justice for her daughter. In 2007 Maggie began the Caravan to Catch a Killer. Still to this day, almost 20 years later Maggie continues to fight for her daughter and best friend. Have information about Brittany Phillips’ murder? Contact authorities. All information matters! Homicide Tip Line: 1-918-798-8477 / Email homicide@cityoftulsa.org

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the unsolved murder of Britney Phillips and her mother's advocacy for justice amid investigative challenges.

Key points

Weight Loss and Genetics. Up to 70% of your weight is determined by genetics, not just willpower.
Maggie's Fight for Justice. Maggie learns about past incidents at the apartment complex after her daughter's murder.
Maggie's Campaign for Justice. Maggie launches a national campaign to generate tips on her daughter's unsolved case.
Five Years Later: No Leads. Despite extensive DNA testing, Britney's case remains unsolved five years after her murder.
New DNA Technology Unveils Suspect. A new DNA profile leads to a match with Britney's best friend's boyfriend.
Strange New Evidence. A letter surfaces with a postage date two days after the victim's death, raising questions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You're actually fighting your biology, don't do it alone.

Discussing weight loss and genetics.

0:12WatchJan 23, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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