These Damned Hands /// Part 2 /// 479 | Forensic Files

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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick join me in this guy for we are off to see the lizard here is the captain it's good to
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garage.com and that is as they say enough of the business everyone gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
talk some true [Music] crime where we left off yesterday we have a man named Leopold Dion who was
arrested on May 207th and despite having any real evidence against this guy in the case of
the four missing youth we are going to hold this man because he is picked up on a parole violation which means he's
going to sit there and he's going to wait until he either talks or we can build a case against this guy he very
quickly becomes Prime Suspect number one in this case like we're saying this is a
really good strategy because we have four children that have gone missing but we have no crime scene we have no
eyewitnesses of seeing these uh individuals get into a car with anybody we have no sign of a struggle we don't
have items of these four individuals that were left behind somewhere so there's no crime scene really so he's
arrested in sitting in a jail cell for about 2 weeks when on June 12th the body of guy lanwick was found by accident by
a hunter the boy was buried in a shallow grave the cause of death homicide manner
of death homicide by strangulation so Leopold Dion was starting to crack as the pressure just
kept growing and growing to the point that eventually he breaks and he tells the investigators that he was in fact
responsible for the boys having gone missing and he led the police to the three remaining bodies on July 5th two
of the victims were buried together this is the two that went missing together Allan and Michael they were buried in
the same grave and this was basically right next to the grave of the last to go missing Perry Marquee this earned
Leopold Dion the moniker of the monster of Pont Rouge this whole thing moves along rather quickly doesn't it Captain
mhm here like we've already seen in other cases is a person that spends most of his adult life in prison because as
soon as he gets out he reoffends and then he goes back in so the cycle can start all over again then he is out
probably never should have been released to begin with but he is and then within
a matter of months not years he is not even out for a single year and he is on the prow and what did his long stint in
prison teach him well if I'm going to rape I better kill and I better make sure that they are dead because what got
me busted at least twice if not more MH the person I attacked became the Numero Uno witness in the case and the province
built a case against me so the best witness is a dead witness and the best victim is a dead victim and also because
of his health history as a as a kid being in isolation for what they said 11 years or so I mean this guy has spent
probably more time locked up or in isolation than he's spent in the Free World now once he has made up his mind
what kind of victim he desires what fantasies he wants to act out with his victim and he has decided it is in his
best interest to kill the victim and after he is satisfied he is out trolling and once he offends again he is doing so
in Rapid succession he likely was out there every weekend during that 40-day period in which he procured four victims
he likely was even out there weekends before he was successful in his mission well and we see multiple times in these
cases where the addiction is stronger grows stronger and so there's less time in between victims yeah yeah he probably
started with the very Basics like we've seen in other cases where do I find the victim type
that I'm looking for and how do I abduct them without being noticed or drawing attention to myself yeah what's my ruse
and how do I kill them and then where do I put them After figuring out most if not all of this task likely spending the
most time on the where do I locate and go unnoticed portion he worked on practicing his
ruse you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar oh I will befriend them and offer them something
this is probably rehearsed time and time again the first boy he approached likely
did not go with him so he tried and tried again and once it worked he did it again and then he needed a victim more
often and then the next victim he needed sooner than the last but I also wonder since he wasn't out of prison for that
long maybe it was hard for him to get a weapon that he could use so he wouldn't have to be nice to capture these
individuals so there is little to report on regarding Leopold's adult life because most of that time was spent in
prison and then he gets out and Masters his craft but thank God he has picked up
before he reached Green River Killer speed and numbers right and after he leads the investigators to the three
bodies this guy is facing a jury by the end of the month I love Swift Justice and an efficient system and in this
instance boom we have it later in the month of July this is 1963 the same year what question for you do you think
that's because he is confessing I mean we saw you know pretty quick justice as far as
you know the the states are concerned with the Chris Watts case but that's also because he was compliant with law
enforcement and he was giving them information so same thing here obviously a different country correct I think it's
a multitude of reasons I think you're you've honed in on the number one reason that he has confessed in some roundabout
way yeah so you're not putting together you're not forced as a prosecution to put together such an extensive case
andless you're worried about a technicality or something shifting during the course of the trial but I
also think it has to do with the time period because when we've reviewed cases from the 60s and even the
70s the wheels of Justice seem to move a little faster back then right less [ __ ] yeah there's a lot more to sift
through these days and that's that probably makes us a better society and possibly a better system overall in the
in the at the end of the day well also more scientific evidence the other situation that we're dealing with here
I'm not going to pretend to understand current day Canadian law let alone 1963 Canadian law well good thing I'm an
expert on it right they did handle things obviously a little different than we do now later in the month of July
1963 several persons testify to the facts of the case of course we have the parent and Friends of the victims
testified to help piece together a timeline of events for when each of our victims went missing for the jury one
person that testified was David derome of Pont Rouge he said that on May 5th the day the last boy went missing he was
driving out on a country road now this road ran along inside a bunch of his father's property we're talking about a
big piece of property here here while driving he spotted a black vehicle parked at an old abandoned farmhouse on
his dad's property mhm knowing that no one was really to be there he jotted down the license plate number on a pack
of cigarettes he meant to then later ask his father about the vehicle but before
he managed to do so he started to see the news about the missing kids and then the arrest so he gave this information
to the police this plate number came back to of course Leopold Dion police believed that this abandoned Farmhouse
was somehow connected to the killings maybe this is where he intended to take the boys or did in fact take them there
and maybe maybe he even killed one or two of the boys at this location yeah that makes a lot of sense but by far the
most damning testimony at the hearing was that of the monster himself Leopold Dion at his murder trial described in
minute detail how he allowed each boy to say a prayer before he killed them this
was in an extraordinary 2 and 1/2 hours of testimony when Dion described the crimes in horrific detail what a
horrible piece of [ __ ] I mean all by the way you're going to die so say a prayer
the basics he said he picked up the boys on three separate spring weekends posing
as a magazine photographer then he killed them when they refused to submit to his demands
his only defense of course was Insanity heck he led the investigators to three of the missing kids concealed buried
bodies if you are not the one who put them there then you better have a really good story and some strong evidence to
back that [ __ ] up here are some of the more dramatic moments and statements of
ld's testimony he said quote I have always always said to all who have questioned me that at the moment when I
committed these crimes at the time when I killed these little children I was not
aware of it in the depths of myself now part of his confusion SL testimony was as
follows quote these two damned hands of mine have killed four little saints what
has happened to me today is not my fault I am 43 years of age and I haven't lived
yet I killed them I do not know why I say it to the whole world society could perhaps think it is satisfied with what
it has done and with what it's going to do to me perhaps the fact that Society will be satisfied will relieve many they
want to strangle me during my life let them strangle me all right let's examine this testimony in Greater detail now
that we have all of those theatrics out of the way Leopold Dion said he told all
four boys that he was a photographer for an American Magazine he picked them up in his car and then drove them out into
the country about 25 miles away there were 60 police on hand at the trial you heard me correctly 660 police officers
spread inside the courtroom and barricading the outside as well they kept LD handcuffed to two
officers for most of the trial so he's got one arm handcuff to one police officer
one arm handcuffed to another police officer they were taking no chances during this whole situation it was said
that these two officers were two of the largest men on the force at the time see
that that'd be my problem they would attach me to this [ __ ] and then I look over and he'd probably have a boner
and he's like probably rubbing he he probably was rubbing their hands every now and then Captain we finally found a
perfect job for you yeah just it's called a paper weight but you're going to act just like a paper weight but for
a prisoner now ld's testimony numbed the courtroom and left the relatives of the
victims crying out loud in the court he described how he sexually attacked and strangled guy linwick he said he did it
because he didn't want the kid to tell anyone because then he would have to go back to the
penitentiary he said he told him to say his prayers because he said said he didn't want to keep him from going to
heaven he said I told the boy I had no choice in the matter the boy said if I let him go that he promised he would not
tell but even if he meant it at the time a little boy cannot be depended on Dion
said he gave the boy two minutes to pray and afterward he strangled the boy by squeezing as tight as he could as to not
to drag it out any longer than necessary Dion said he met the two boy victims Allan and Michael and convinced
them to go with him after showing them his camera he had them POS for some pictures now for my understanding here
Captain the camera that he used in his ruse he never even had any film for this camera so the entire time that he's
doing all of this and manipulating people he's he's acting he's just acting the entire time yeah but don't you
understand how that works if you're a fake photographer that you have to take fake pictures that's the way it works
that's right this is where that abandoned Farmhouse comes into play that is where he took these two kids Dion
said that he often slept there himself during this 40 days uh of death and destruction he took the two boys up to
an attic room in The Farmhouse now at some point while he's attempting to do whatever it is that he wants to do with
the victims he says that he heard a car outside mhm he said he looks out the window he said that he saw a family they
appeared to him to be looking for a place to picnic so they parked their car and now this is where Dion almost
gets caught right but he goes outside he tells the people that hey this is private property and you got to leave
right and so not knowing any better they do he said that he went back into the Farmhouse and had the boys again pretend
to pose for the fake pictures he decided he wanted to separate the boys that it would be easy to manipulate them control
them and ultimately kill them if they were separate so he told one of them to go out to the car and listen to the
radio he then tied the other boy to the bed during his testimony Dion was asked asked if he knew what he was going to do
to the boys to which Dion replied very well it's all premeditated yeah yeah so when the boy was told by Dion what he
wanted to do with the boy the Boy refused so he said Michael was told he was going to be killed so Michael began
to pray out loud he said a Hail Mary and the act of contrition both again out loud and said that that is what made
this whole thing so terrible Dion said the boy never struggled and he died like a little angel he then went to the other
boy and then he told him if you want to go to heaven then you pray too he then strangled him as well he then said that
he buried both bodies in the same grave in a clearing in the Deep Woods so it seems like during this whole time period
like do we have any idea where like Leo old was actually staying or was he just cruising around and living in his
vehicle I think he was staying you know where he could and that might be involve
the vehicle but it sounds like most of the time at least during this Killing Spree he was sleeping in that abandoned
Farmhouse this is kind of out in the middle of nowhere right and he could especially if he could conceal his
vehicle no one would even really know that he would be there later on during that 40 days this would be on May 26
Dion said that he went to go swimming at Wolf's Cove and that is how he first interacted with Perry the fourth victim
he said he used the same Mo as he used in the previous attacks and he got the boy out into an isolated area this again
probably that Farmhouse and and he tried to force the boy to undress and the boy resisted and
fought him so hard that Dion said he had to pull a knife on the kid but even after threatening him with the knife
Dion said there was just no way that he could stab the boy so he he's trying to get him to comply
the boy won't he can't bring himself to physically stab the boy so he then says that he bit the kid to force him to
comply and then pray and then Dion said he put a cord around the boy's neck and strangled him he's a real piece of [ __ ]
he went on to testify to say that his fourth victim he said he had the heart of a lion the poor little one he was
then asked if he had any regrets to which Dion replied many then he went on to say maybe if the boys would have
consented to the sexual acts they would not have died but I'm really not sure they did show the jury a makeshift garat
that Leopold Dion fashioned from a piece of wire with a nail at each end to hold
on to so he could tighten it mhm at the trial one psychiatrist described Leopold
Dion as a quote sexual monster with a human face Max Haynes of Saskatchewan's newspaper The Leader Post called Leopold
Dion a human time bomb I mean to be fair I mean he might have a human face but it's it is a ugly human
face and it was the leader post that featured a fantastic article titled these two damned hands Leopold Dion
condemned sex Slayer the article reads Society has little reason to be satisfied with what it has done to
Leopold in the past Society put this man in prison for life in 1940 for rape Society let him out 16 years later
Society put him back into prison for homosexual relations with a boy 6 years later Society let him out again this
time Leopold Dion raped and strangled four boys and this time Society is ending this shade society's
self-destructive agent was the institution of parole when it works parole is Progressive and desirable when
it bungles miserably it is intolerable a parole system which gives second and third chances to irredeemable criminal
perverts such as Leopold Dion seems itself almost Beyond Redemption soft sentences General prison instead of
segregated institutions for sexual Psychopaths and careless parole how careless Society is with its own safety
how many other creatures are there free or jailed who may one day say as Leopold
Dion said the these two damn hands of mine have killed four little saints what has happened to me today is not my fault
of course it was not the fault of the lost and misbegotten Maniac it was [Music]
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that [Music] [Music] cheers mates and if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs you can
find our old episodes there available everywhere Apple podcast Stitcher Sirius XM app and and every episode is also on
Spotify so check that out as well Captain it took the jury only two minutes to return the verdict after
Leopold Dion testified for well over two hours and you know somebody complain that they had wh why did we even come
back here and sit down right why is this taking so long yeah we could have just sat there yeah I'm
hungry it was announced that they would not be discussing why it was decided that Leopold Dion was granted parole in
the first place during the trial and even after the trial basically what was said is that the parole board has final
say so they have exclusive jurisdiction in those matters but this again look what what we could do is go hey do you
want to let out of prison yes okay well we're going to we're going to chop your dingy off we we we're going to guarantee
no more rapes now the guy says well no now I want to keep my dinghy we go okay well we're going to keep you in prison
that's what we're going to do in December of 1963 he was convicted of one of the
boy's murders this was for 13-year-old Perry Marquee now criminal lawyer guy bertran defended Dion at his trial and
to me it looks like bertran really did the best that he possibly could given that his client confessed to the murders
LED detectives to three of the four bodies and had an extensive violent criminal past we talked about this
before leading the investigators to a body or bodies is always incredibly important to these cases and to the
investigation and prosecution because what it says is we've seen time and time again where a killer or a suspected
killer will confess to a murder but then later recant that confession right what
you can't take back later is the fact that you actually LED them to the deceased person's remains yeah or your
knowledge about the crime Dion was in the end given a death sentence to be executed by way of hanging the old drop
and swing method we so Leopold was sentenced to hang but we are far from done my friends because while awaiting
his date with the hangman Dion requested an interview with Quebec prison Governor
Jean Lorin in the governor's office this was on Wednesday May 27th 1964 during this interview using what
was described at the time as a crudely fashioned knife Leopold attacked the governor stabbing him several times and
then using this man as a human shield as he made his way out of the prison from the interview room he
managed to make it out of the prison but not further than 200 ft from the Prison
Walls where two City policemen jumped him and clubbed him to the point of unconsciousness with the revolver butts
his pathway from the governor's office was marked with the trail blood it was later revealed that Dion concealed a
letter opener under his clothing mhm it was an old-fashioned uh letter opener stabbing early reports said that the
governor was in critical condition the governor was stabbed a total of seven times by Dion but later recovered from
his wounds despite all of this his death sentence was then later commuted to a life sentence in prison this of course
was met with a storm of protest in 1972 at the age of 52 that's because I wanted
to see the son of a [ __ ] hang they wanted to put him in the middle of the town and watch his legs dingle dangle
you know that that would have been Justice for the town I mean not only is he a monster that killed these four boys
then he goes and attacks the governor I mean this this guy is an animal in 1972 at the age of 52 Leopold Dion was
attacked by deranged prisoner and convicted killer Norman champagne and Beat to Death champagne was 29 at the
time mhm prison officials said Dion was attacked as he entered his cell after attending a therapy session in another
part of the prison an autopsy revealed that Dion died instantly from several blows to the skull from a metal bar
there are some more detailed information that came out years later in yeah you wonder if uh Lio pole was threatening
him in any way well this guy has an interesting story and I think we're going to go down this interesting Road
here so it said that on the night that of Dion's death sh campaign went into the prison yard for exercises and
managed to smuggle in a 14in metal bar that weighed about three lbs or more yeah Pilates yeah this was used for
weightlifting and Norman champagne later told the investigating agency that he himself was actually
Lawrence of Arabia and that he killed Dion on orders he received in his dreams he said quote I was I was scared of Dion
in one of my dreams Lawrence told me I had to kill the desert monster before he killed me I did it and I don't regret it
I'm liberated now from the desert monster champagne said in his dreams Lawrence of Arabia told him you are me
living in the 20th century champagne was in prison serving a life sentence himself for the rape and murder of a
Quebec woman from uh 1969 well yeah that that so is nuts but good thing that he killed the monster of
the desert well Max Haynes who we referenced earlier writer Max Haynes in a March 6th 1982 article titled Justice
was dealt in a deadly way in which he cites according to officials Leopold Dion was hated by his
fellow prison ERS Until the End one guard at the Maximum Security Prison said that in prisons inmates hate rapist
and child molesters as well as stool pigeons with the passion oddly enough when Leopold was at his M murder trial
years before his attorney claimed that Leopold was insane so basically it was an insanity defense yeah the man that
killed Leopold Dion Norman champagne was later found to be criminally responsible
but then was later ruled to not be guilty by way of insanity well it's weird with it's weird with leople as
well because on off the record this week we did a two-parts update on the fifth nail and
and in that case you have this horrific murderer that victim blames left and right and
here you know he's at least not victim blaming he's not saying you know he he he he tells you
these damn hands killed these angels and and the there was nothing that these kids did
wrong so it it's it's a whole different psychology of killer almost yeah and he's on the stand at least he's trying
to paint a picture of he couldn't control himself I killed these kids and I don't know why these damned hands
almost that they're his hands are cursed and have a mind of his own and he has no
control over right which is [ __ ] but it's a lot better for the victim's families to hear stuff like that other
than you know some of these other killers that go well you know that they they were asking for it or they did AB c
and d and that's what led me to want to kill them it's their fault well and what's weird in this case too I mean
there's always these these unique intricate pieces inside of these larger stories that I find absolutely
fascinating and one Leopold Dion probably should have never been left let out to begin with yeah I agree and then
we have all of this tragedy that is brought about by him being paroled he's sent to prison again and there's never
it's really difficult right these are hard hard lessons to learn it's like we were learning it the hard way they would
say because we let him out we sentence him to death and later commute that back to a life
sentence then we have a convicted killer a piece of [ __ ] who is already in prison
he convi he kills Leopold and they have the same defense for why they killed it works out in Norman
champagne's favor but Norman champagne is another hard lesson learned because he's a guy too that they
continue to want to reform right and let him out and he is every bit as violent as leopo Dion well the insanity of these
individuals the maliciousness the violence the there you they're almost demonic they're inhumane right they're
all these things but we keep trying to have this system that is Humane you know oh well we we have the death penalty but
when we when we do it we don't we now we just inject you you know we don't want to make it too
violent and and I just wonder if I'm going to say something and maybe you'll get it and maybe people out there will
get it but it's it's kind of like the Joker and Batman right the Joker is playing by a
different set of rules than Batman is and that's almost the way I feel about our justice
system is The Killers they're playing by a whole different set of rules and we're
still trying to we're trying to hold up some kind of rule set if that makes any sense and so it's like okay yeah we'll
put you in jail but now now we're going to let you out because our our systems too LAX and then we see what happens
time and time again well this is something we've been preaching here in the garage since we started was that
there there needs to be a distinct difference an understood difference between violent offenders and
non-violent offenders because in a lot of cases you have people being pushed out of prisons because of they're
overpopulated there's not enough room for all of these people yeah there's too much [ __ ] and I'm not afraid of a
nonviolent offender that's that's not who I'm afraid of that's not who Society is afraid of right the person that rips
families apart and rips communities apart is the violent offender now this Norman champagne I
said he's a rather fascinating story he has a rather fascinating history but this is to go along to show that it was
it was the same mistake repeated with the guy that killed the guy that you made the mistakes with to
begin with right so Norman champagne he ends up creating some kind of working relationship if you will with
the famous newsman he's now famous newsman but at the time was not his name is Claude puyer the legend began to take
shape on June 11 1973 during a 10-hour hostage crisis at Montreal's maximum security Psychiatric Hospital okay so
he's in prison already for killing a woman in 1969 then he kills Leopold Dion inside
the prison now this man is involved in a 10-hour hostage crisis inside Norman champagne was armed with scissors and
holding three three employees against their will he wanted his freedom and he wanted to see if Claude puyer the
newsman he was a radio reporter at the time then only 34 years old he wanted to see this man and speak
with him and have him Aid him in his freedom that he was seeking the radio reporter Claude he
exchanged himself for the three hostages and then he drives this mad man away in a highly visible radio car you
know so that at some point police can stop this madness from going on right puyer later reported that champagne
wanted him to drive him back to the desert oh yeah cuz he has to kill well he's Lawrence of Arabia right in his
mind and in fact he ended up going to see his mother and then his sister and that's where police were able to
recapture this Psychopathic murderer before he could make it to his next plan stop which was he was asking the
reporter to take him to the uh Montreal bus station so he's locked up once again
and this is what is completely bizarre Captain an escape attempt a hostage crisis two murders under this guy's belt
and what do they do they parole Norman champagne oh my God they release him from the psychiatric Institute where
they are housing him um because he's he's cured got' be stupid then you have this news article Norman champagne at
this point in our timeline Captain he is 44 years of age they're calling him a convicted murderer and I couldn't figure
out where this came from prizewinning artist so apparently he's quite the artist but he and two other people were
arrested on November 19th and this would have been in the early 80s I think it was
1982 after police foiled a plot to kidnap two female employees from a McDonald's restaurant and hold them for
ransom and possibly kill one of them if the money wasn't paid the police found out about this plot through a man named
Jean jacqu Roshan originally he was supposed to be one of the people involved in this whole
hostage situation he was going to be an accomplice he ended up contacting the authorities when he discovered that the
Mastermind this Norman champagne was planning on probably killing one of the hostages anyway right he's like wait a
second I was just in this for some money now now there's going to be an actual murder involved no I'm I'm not only only
am I out but I am outing you and the others as well yeah because he's insane what ended up happening was this Roshan
was so messed up with the whole situation that he ended up committing suicide not long before the police were
able to track down this group and arrest them now police said that the crime champagne plan to commit they called it
one of the most serious in the criminal code and they described the evidence against champagne in this case as quote
revolting and repugnant along with passports the three criminals were going to use to escape to Brazil after the
kidnapping police seized weapons and a video cassette that was to be used to make the ransom demands to the
McDonald's chief Executives the video shows Norman champagne in a in flowing robes and a turban his eyes shielded by
Amber tinted glasses styling and profil while Johan strauss's blue danu plays in
the background and you can see shots of a McDonald's restaurant golden arches champagne is heard talking about the
profits of the McDonald's chain and saying quote McDonald's exploits its employees McDonald's is an exploiter
that we can use to get rich the scene on the video then changes to show in your show is a McDonald's and
not a mcdow's the scene then changes to show champagne holding an axe and now he's saying I am Lawrence of
Arabia I'd like you to meet my partner the axe I am declaring war on McDonald's champagne goes on to say that he will
decapitate one of the hostages he says quote I'm going to take out her heart put it on a skewer roast it and then put
it between two small buns champagne then says and I can do worse today I can't go back into society
I've tried I have tried counseling but there is nothing to be done I've been inside too long the only thing that's
left is the axe and and by him having those two buns so we're we're stating that he's not on a keto diet so oddly
enough just like Leopold Dion this Maniac was somehow released back into [Music]
society I want to thank everybody so much for joining us here in the garage joining us every week to dive into these
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week we are going to double down on the recommendations that's right we got two for you this week the first
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Record again next week with a conversation with true crime author and historian Harold sheor Harold is the
author of this week's recommended reading his new book Maniac the bath school disaster and the birth of the
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that

These Damned Hands /// Part 2 /// 479

Part 2 of 2

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This week we go up to Canada to explore some older cases from the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties. All of the cases are centered around two main perpetrators. Our story starts off with several missing persons cases. Join us as we take a look at some fascinating crime stories that you likely have yet to hear.

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Brief Summary

Leopold Dion murdered four boys in the 1960s, confessed, and faced trial, revealing systemic failures in the parole system.

Key points

Leopold Dion's Arrest. Leopold Dion becomes the prime suspect in the case of four missing youths.
Chilling Testimony. Dion describes in detail how he killed the boys, leaving the courtroom in shock.
Society's Failure. The trial reveals the failures of the parole system that allowed Dion to reoffend.
The Verdict. The jury took only two minutes to return the verdict after a lengthy testimony.
Leopold Dion's Attack. While awaiting execution, Dion attacked the prison governor with a knife.
Dion's Death. Leopold Dion was killed by a fellow inmate in prison.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I have always said... I was not aware of it in the depths of myself.

Dion's defense during the trial.

14:02WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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