These Damned Hands /// Part 2 /// 479 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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garage.com and that is as they say enough of the business everyone gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's
talk some true crime [Music] where we left off yesterday we have a man named Leopold Dion who was arrested
on May 27th and despite having any real evidence against this guy in the case of the four missing youths
we are going to hold this man because he is picked up on a parole violation which
means he's going to sit there and he's going to wait until he either talks or we can build a case against this guy he
very quickly becomes Prime Suspect number one in this case like we're saying this is a really good strategy
because we have four children that have gone missing but we have no crime scene we have no eyewitnesses of seeing these
uh individuals get into a car with anybody we have no sign of a struggle we don't have items of these four
individuals that were left behind somewhere so there's no crime scene really so he's arrested in sitting in a
jail cell for about two weeks when on June 12th the body of guy luckenwick was found by accident by a hunter the boy
was buried in a shallow grave the cause of death homicide manner of death homicide by strangulation
so Leopold Dion was starting to crack as the pressure just kept growing and growing to the point that eventually he
breaks and he tells the investigators that he was in fact responsible for the boys having Gone Missing and he led the
police to the three remaining bodies on July 5th two of the victims were buried together this is the two that went
missing together Alan and Michael they were buried in the same grave and this was basically right next to the grave of
the last to go missing Perry Marquis this earned Leopold Dion the moniker of the monster of Ponte Rouge this whole
thing moves along rather quickly doesn't it captain here like we've already seen in other
cases is a person that spends most of his adult life in prison because as soon as he gets out he reoffends and then he
goes back in so the cycle can start all over again then he is out probably never should
have been released to begin with but he is and then within a matter of months not years he is not even out for a
single year and he is on the prowl and what did his long stint in prison teach him
well if I'm going to rape I better kill I better make sure that they are dead because what got me busted at least
twice if not more the person I attacked became the Numero Uno witness in the case and the province built a case
against me so the best witness is a dead witness and the best victim is a dead victim and also because of his health
history as a as a kid being in isolation for what they said 11 years or so I mean
this guy has spent probably more time locked up or in isolation than he's spent in the Free World now once he has
made up his mind what kind of victim he desires what fantasies he wants to act out with his victim and he has decided
it is in his best interest to kill the victim after he is satisfied he is out trolling and once he offends again he is
doing so in Rapid succession he likely was out there every weekend during that 40-day period in which he procured four
victims he likely was even out there weekends before he was successful in his mission well and we've seen multiple
times in these cases where the addiction is stronger grow is stronger and so there's less time in between victims
yeah he probably started with the very Basics like we've seen in other cases where do I find the victim type that I'm
looking for and how do I abduct them without being noticed or drawing attention to myself yeah what's my ruse
and how do I kill them and then where do I put them After figuring out most if not all of this task likely spending the
most time on the where do I locate and go a notice portion he worked on practicing his ruse
you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar oh I will befriend
them and offer them something this is probably rehearsed time and time again the first boy he approached likely did
not go with him so he tried and tried again and once it worked he did it again and then he needed a victim more often
and then the next victim he needed sooner than the last but I also wonder since he wasn't out of prison for that
long maybe it was hard for him to get a weapon that he could use so he wouldn't have to be nice to capture
these individuals so there is little to report on regarding Leopold's adult life
because most of that time was spent in prison and then he gets out and Masters his craft but thank God he has picked up
before he reached Green River Killer speed in numbers right and after he leads the investigators to the three
bodies this guy is facing a jury by the end of the month I love Swift Justice and an efficient system and in this
instance boom we have it later in the month of July this is 1963 the same year well question for you do you think
that's because he is confessing I mean we saw you know pretty quick justice as far as
you know the the states are concerned with the Chris Watts case but that's also because he was compliant with law
enforcement and he was giving them information so same thing here obviously a different country correct I think it's
a multitude of reasons I think you're you've honed in on the number one reason that he has confessed in some roundabout
way yeah so you're not putting together you're not forced as a prosecution to put together such an extensive case
unless you're worried about a technicality or something shifting during the course of the trial but I
also think it has to do with the time period because when we've reviewed cases from the 60s and even the 70s
the wheels of Justice seem to move a little faster back then right less [ __ ] yeah there's a lot more to sift
through these days and that's that probably makes us a better society and possibly a better system overall in the
in the at the end of the day well also more scientific evidence the other situation that we're dealing with here
I'm not going to pretend to understand current day Canadian law let alone 1963 Canadian law a good thing I'm an expert
on it right they did handle things obviously a little different than we do now later in the month of July 1963
several persons testified to the facts of the case of course we have the parents and Friends of the victims
testified to help piece together a timeline of events for when each of our victims went missing for the jury
one person that testified was David derome of Pont Rouge he said that on May 5th the day the last boy went missing he
was driving out on a country road now this road ran alongside a bunch of his father's property we're talking about a
big piece of property here while driving he spotted a black vehicle parked at an old
abandoned farmhouse on his dad's property knowing that no one was really to be there
he jotted down the license plate number on a pack of cigarettes he meant to then
later ask his father about the vehicle but before he managed to do so he started to see the news about the
missing kids and then the arrest so he gave this information to the police this plate number came back to of course
Leopold Dion police believe that this abandoned Farmhouse was somehow connected to the killings maybe this is
where he intended to take the boys or did in fact take them there and maybe maybe he even killed one or two of the
boys at this location yeah that makes a lot of sense but by far the most damning
testimony at the hearing was that of the monster himself Leopold Dion at his murder trial described in my new detail
how he allowed each boy to say a prayer before he killed them this was in an extraordinary two and a half hours of
testimony when Dion described the crimes in horrific detail I'm a horrible piece
of [ __ ] I mean oh by the way you're gonna die so say a prayer the basics he said he picked up the boys on three
separate spring weekends posing as a magazine photographer then he killed them when they refused to
submit to his demands his only defense of course was Insanity heck he led the investigators to three
of the missing kids concealed buried bodies if you are not the one who put them there then you better have a really
good story and some strong evidence to back that [ __ ] up here are some of the more dramatic
moments and statements of ld's testimony he said quote I have always said to all
who have questioned me that at the moment when I committed these crimes at the time when I killed these little
children I was not aware of it in the depths of myself now part of his confusion slash
testimony was as follows quote these two damned hands of mine have killed four little saints what has
happened to me today is not my fault I am 43 years of age and I haven't lived yet
I killed them I do not know why I say it to the whole world society could perhaps
think it is satisfied with what it has done and with what it's going to do to me
perhaps the fact that Society will be satisfied will relieve many they want to strangle me during my life
let them strangle me all right let's examine this testimony in Greater detail now that we have all of those
theatrics out of the way Leopold Dion said he told all four boys that he was a photographer for an
American Magazine he picked them up in his car and then drove them out into the country about 25
miles away there were 60 police on hand at the trial you heard me correctly 66-0 police officers spread inside the
courtroom and barricading the outside as well they kept L.D handcuffed to two officers
for most of the trial so he's got one arm handcuffed to one police officer one armed handcuffed to another police
officer they were taking no chances during this whole situation it was said that these two officers were two of the
largest men on the force at the time see them that'd be my problem they would attach me to this [ __ ] and then I'd
look over and he'd probably have a boner and he's like probably rubbing he you know he probably was rubbing their hands
every now and then Captain we finally found a perfect job for you yeah just it's called a paperweight but you're
gonna act just like a paperweight but for a prisoner now ld's testimony numbed the courtroom and left the relatives of
the victims crying out loud in the court he described how he sexually attacked and strangled guy luckenwick he said he
did it because he didn't want the kid to tell anyone because then he would have to go back to the penitentiary
he said he told him to say his prayers because he said he didn't want to keep him from going to heaven
he said I told the boy I had no choice in the matter the boy said if I let him go that he promised he would not tell
but even if he meant it at the time a little boy cannot be dependent on Dion said he gave the boy two minutes to
pray and afterward he strangled the boy by squeezing as tight as he could as to not to drag it out any longer than
necessary Dion said he met the two boy victims Alan and Michael and convinced them to
go with him after showing them his camera he had them pose for some pictures now
from my understanding here Captain the camera that he used in his ruse he never even had any film for this
camera so the entire time that he's doing all of this and manipulating people he's he's acting he's just acting
the entire time yeah but don't you understand how that works if you're a fake photographer
that you have to take fake pictures that's the way it works that's right this is where that abandoned Farmhouse
comes into play that is where he took these two kids Dion said that he often slept there
himself during this 40 days of death and destruction he took the two boys up to an attic room
in The Farmhouse now at some point while he's attempting to do whatever it is that he wants to do with the victims he
says that he heard a car outside he said he looks out the window he said that he saw a family they appeared to
him to be looking for a place to picnic so they parked their car and now this is where Dion almost gets
caught right but he goes outside he tells the people that hey this is private property and you gotta leave
right and so not knowing any better they do he said that he went back into the Farmhouse and had the boys again pretend
to pose for the fake pictures he decided he wanted to separate the boys that it would be easy to manipulate
them control them and ultimately kill them if they were separate so he told one of them to go
out to the car and listen to the radio he then tied the other boy to the bed during his testimony Dion was asked if
he knew what he was going to do to the boys to which Dion replied very well so we saw premeditated yeah
so when the boy was told by Dion what he wanted to do with the boy the Boy refused
so he said Michael was told he was going to be killed so Michael began to pray out loud he said a Hail Mary and the act
of contrition both again out loud and Dion said that that is what made this whole thing so terrible Dion said the
boy never struggled and he died like a little angel he then went to the other boy and then
he told him if you want to go to heaven then you pray too he then strangled him as well
he then said that he buried both bodies in the same grave in a clearing in the Deep Woods so it seems like during this
whole time period like do we have any idea where like Leopold was actually staying or was he just cruising around
and living in his vehicle I think he was staying you know where he could and that
might be involve the vehicle but it sounds like most of the time at least during this Killing Spree he was
sleeping in that abandoned Farmhouse this is kind of out in the middle of nowhere right and he could especially if
he could conceal his vehicle no one would even really know that he would be there
later on during that 40 days this would be on May 26th Dion said that he went to go swimming at Wolf's Cove
and that is how he first interacted with Perry the fourth victim he said he used the same Mo as he used
in the previous attacks and he got the boy out into an isolated area this again probably that farmhouse
and he tried to force the boy to undress and the boy resisted and fought him so hard that Dion said he had to pull a
knife on the kid but even after threatening him with the knife Dion said there was just no way that he could stab
the boy so he he's trying to get him to comply the boy won't he can't bring himself to
physically stab the boy so he then says that he bit the kid to force him to comply and then pray
and then Dion said he put a cord around the boy's neck and strangled him he's a real piece of [ __ ] he went on to testify
to say that his fourth victim he said he had the heart of a lion the poor little
one he was then asked if he had any regrets to which Dion replied many then he went on to say maybe if the boys
would have consented to the sexual acts they would not have died but I'm really not sure
they did show the jury a makeshift garage that Leopold Dion fashioned from a piece of wire with a nail at each end
to hold on to so he could tighten it at the trial one psychiatrist described Leopold Dion
as a quote sexual monster with a human face Max Haynes of Saskatchewan's newspaper
The Leader Post called Leopold Dion a human time bomb I mean to be fair I mean he might have a
human face but it is an ugly human face and it was the leader post that featured
a fantastic article titled these two damned hands Leopold Dion condemned sex Slayer the article reads Society has
little reason to be satisfied with what it has done to Leopold in the past Society put this man in prison for life
in 1940 for rape Society let him out 16 years later Society put him back in a prison for
homosexual relations with a boy six years later Society let him out again this time Leopold Dion raped and
strangled four boys and this time Society is ending this charade society's self-destructive agent
was the institution of parole when it works parole is Progressive and desirable what it bungles miserably it
is intolerable a parole system which gives second and third chances to irredeemable criminal
perverts such as Leopold Dion seems itself almost Beyond Redemption soft sentences General prison instead of
segregated institutions for sexual Psychopaths and careless parole how careless Society is with its own safety
how many other creatures are there free or jailed who may one day say as Leopold
Dion said these two damn hands of mine have killed four little saints what has happened to me today is not my
fault of course it was not the fault of the lost and misbegotten Maniac it was ours
[Music] foreign [Music] cheers mates and if you need more True Crime garage for your ear balls you can
find our old episodes they're available everywhere Apple podcast Stitcher Sirius
XM app and every episode is also on Spotify so check that out as well Captain it took the jury only two
minutes to return the verdict after Leopold Dion testified for well over two hours and you know somebody complained
that that well why did we even come back here and sit down hey why is this taking
so long yeah we could have just sat there yeah I'm hungry it was announced that they would not be
discussing why it was decided that Leopold Dion was granted parole in the first place during the trial and even
after the trial basically what was said is that the parole board has final say so they have exclusive jurisdiction in
those matters but this again look what what we could do is go hey do you want to let out of prison yes
okay well we're gonna we're gonna chop your dinghy off we we we're going to guarantee no more rapes now the guy says
well now I know I want to keep my dinghy we go okay well we're going to keep you
in prison that's what we're going to do in December of 1963 he was convicted of one of the boys murders this was for 13
year old Perry Marquis now criminal lawyer guy Bertrand defended Dion at his trial and to me it looks like Bertrand
really did the best that he possibly could given that his client confessed to the murders LED detectives to three of
the four bodies and had an extensive violent criminal past we've talked about this before leading the investigators to
a body or bodies is always incredibly important to these cases and to the investigation and prosecution because
what it says is we've seen time and time again where a killer or a suspected killer will confess to a murder
but then later recant that confession right what you can't take back later is the fact that you actually LED them to
the deceased person's remains yeah or your knowledge about the crime Dion was in the end given a death sentence to be
executed by way of hanging the old drop and swing method we so Leopold was sentenced to hang but we are far from
done my friends because while awaiting his date with the hangman Dion requested an interview with Quebec
prison Governor Jean latoran in the governor's office this was on Wednesday May 27 1964.
during this interview using what was described at the time as a crudely fashioned knife Leopold attacked the
governor stabbing him several times and then using this man as a human shield as he made his way out of the prison
from the interview room he managed to make it out of the prison but not further than 200 feet from the Prison
Walls where two City policemen jumped him and clubbed him to the point of unconsciousness with the revolver butts
his pathway from the governor's office was marked with the trail blood it was later revealed that Dion concealed a
letter opener under his clothing it was an old-fashioned letter opener stabbing early reports said that the governor was
in critical condition the governor was stabbed a total of seven times by Dion but later recovered from his wounds
despite all of this his death sentence was then later commuted to a life sentence in prison this of course was
met with a storm of protests in 1972 at the age of 52. that's because I wanted to see the son of a [ __ ] hang they
wanted to put him in the middle of the town and watch his legs dingle dangle you know that
that would have been Justice for the town I mean not only is he a monster that killed these four boys and he goes
and attacks the governor I mean this this guy is an animal in 1972 at the age of 52 Leopold Dion was attacked by
deranged prisoner and convicted killer Norman champagne and Beat to Death champagne was 29 at the time
prison officials said Dion was attacked as he entered his cell after attending a
therapy session in another part of the prison an autopsy revealed that Dion died instantly from several blows to the
skull from a metal bar there are some more detailed information that came out years later yeah you
wonder if uh Leopold was threatening him in any way well this guy has an interesting story
and I think we're gonna go down this interesting Road here so it said that on the night that of Dion's death champagne
went into the prison yard for exercises and managed to smuggle in a 14-inch metal bar that weighed about three
pounds or more yeah Pilates yeah this was used for weight lifting and Norman champagne later told the
investigating agency that he himself was actually Lawrence of Arabia and that he killed Dion on orders
he received in his dreams he said quote I was I was scared of Dion and one of my
dreams Lawrence told me I had to kill the desert monster before he killed me I did it and I don't regret it I'm
liberated now from the desert monster champagne said in his dreams Lawrence of Arabia told him you are me living in the
20th century Champaign was in prison serving a life sentence himself for the rape and murder
of a Quebec woman from 1969. well yeah that that SOB is nuts but good thing that he killed the
monster of the desert well Max Haynes who we referenced earlier writer Max Haynes
in a March 6 1982 article titled Justice was dealt in a deadly way in which he cites according to officials
Leopold Dion was hated by his fellow prisoners until the end one guard at the Maximum Security Prison
said that in prisons inmates hate rapists and child molesters as well as stool pigeons
with the passion oddly enough when Leopold was at his murder trial years before his attorney
claimed that Leopold was insane so basically it was an insanity defense yeah the man that killed Leopold Dion Norman
champagne was later found to be criminally responsible but then was later ruled to not be guilty by way of
insanity well it's weird but it's weird with Leopold as well because on off the record this week we did uh
two parts update on the fifth now and and in that case you have this horrific murderer
that victim blames left and right and here you know he's at least not victim blaming
he's not saying you know he he he he tells you these damn hands killed these angels
and and the there was nothing that these kids did wrong so it is it's a whole different
psychology of killer almost yeah and he's on the stand at least he's trying to paint a picture of he couldn't
control himself I killed these kids and I don't know why right these damned hands almost that their his hands are
cursed and have a mind of his own and he has no control over right which is [ __ ] but it's a lot better for the
victims families to hear stuff like that other than you know some of these other killers
that go well you know that they they were asking for it or they did a b c and d and that's what led me to want to kill
them it's their fault well and what's weird in this case too I mean there's always these these unique intricate
pieces inside of these larger stories that I find absolutely fascinating and one Leopold Dion probably should have
never been left let out to begin with yeah I agree and then we have all of this tragedy that is brought about by
him being paroled he sent to prison again and there's never it's really difficult
right these are hard hard lessons to learn it's like we were learning it the hard way they would say because we let
them out and we sentence him to death and later commute that back to a life sentence
then we have a convicted killer a piece of [ __ ] who is already in prison he can
he kills Leopold and they have the same defense for why they killed it works out in Norman champaign's favor
but Norman champagne is another hard lesson learned because he's a guy too that they continue to
want to reform and let him out and he is every bit as violent as Leopold Dion well the
insanity of these individuals the maliciousness the violence the they're you know they're almost demonic
they're inhumane right they're all these things but we keep trying to have this system
that is Humane you know oh well we we have the death penalty but when we when we do it we
don't we now we just inject you you know we don't want to make it too violent and and I just wonder if
I want to say something and maybe you'll get it and maybe people out there will get it but it's it's kind of like the
Joker and Batman right The Joker is playing by a different set of rules than Batman is
and that's almost the way I feel about our justice system is The Killers they're playing by a
whole different set of rules and we're still trying to we're trying to hold up some kind of
rule set if that makes any sense and so it's like okay yeah we'll put you in jail but now now we're going to let you
out because our our system's too Lacks and then we see what happens time and time again well this is something we've
been preaching here in the garage since we started was it there there needs to be a distinct difference
an understood difference between violent offenders and non-violent offenders because in a lot of cases you have
people being pushed out of prisons because of they're overpopulated there's not enough room for all these people
yeah there's too much [ __ ] and I'm not afraid of a non-violent offender that's that's not who I'm afraid of
that's not who Society is afraid of right the person that rips families apart and rips communities apart is the
violent offender now this Norman champagne I said he's a rather fascinating story he has a rather
fascinating history but this is to go along to show that it was it was the same mistake repeated
with the guy that killed the guy that you made the mistakes with to begin with right so Norman champagne
he ends up creating some kind of a working relationship if you will with the famous News man he's a now famous
newsman but at the time was not his name is Claude poyer the legend began to take
shape on June 11 1973 during a 10-hour hostage crisis at Montreal's maximum security Psychiatric Hospital okay so
he's in prison already for killing a woman in 1969 then he kills Leopold Dion inside the prison now this man is
involved in a 10-hour hostage crisis inside Norman champagne was armed with scissors and holding three of three
employees against their will he wanted his freedom and he wanted to see if Claude poyer the
newsman he was a radio reporter at the time then only 34 years old he wanted to see this man and speak with
him and have him Aid him in his freedom that he was seeking the radio reporter Claude he exchanged
himself for the three hostages and then he drives this madman away in a highly visible radio car you know so
that at some point police can stop this madness from going on right poyer later reported that champagne wanted him to
drive him back to the desert oh yeah because he has to kill well he's Lawrence of Arabia right in his mind and
in fact he ended up going to see his mother and then his sister and that's where police were able to recapture this
Psychopathic murderer before he could make it to his next plan stop which was he was asking the reporter to take him
to the Montreal bus station so he's locked up once again and this is what is completely bizarre
captain an escape attempt a hostage crisis two murders under this guy's belt and what
do they do they parole Norman champagne oh my God they release him from the psychiatric Institute where they are
housing him because he's he's cured you gotta be stupid then you have this news article Norman
champagne at this point in our timeline Captain he is 44 years of age they're calling him a convicted murderer and I
couldn't figure out where this came from prize-winning artist so apparently he's quite the artist but
he and two other people were arrested on November 19th and this would have been in the early 80s I think it was 1982.
after police foiled a plot to kidnap two female employees from a McDonald's restaurant and hold them for ransom and
possibly kill one of them if the money wasn't paid the police found out about this plot through a man named Jean
Jacques Roshan originally he was supposed to be one of the people involved in this whole
hostage situation he was going to be an accomplice he ended up contacting the authorities
when he discovered that the Mastermind this Norman Champaign was planning on probably killing one of the hostages
anyway right he's like wait a second I was just in this for some money now now there's going to be an actual murder
involved no I'm I'm not only only am I out but I am outing you and the others as well yeah because he's insane what
ended up happening was this Roshan was so messed up with the whole situation that he ended up committing suicide not
long before the police were able to track down this group and arrest them now police said that the crime champagne
planned to commit they called it one of the most serious in the criminal code and
they described the evidence against champagne in this case as quote revolting and repugnant along with
passports the three criminals were going to use to escape to Brazil after the kidnapping police seized weapons and a
video cassette that was to be used to make the ransom demands to the McDonald's Chief Executives the video
shows Norman champagne in a in flowing robes and a turban his eyes shielded by Amber tinted glasses styling and profile
Johann strauss's Blue Danube plays in the background and you can see shots of a McDonald's
restaurant golden arches champagne is heard talking about the prophets of the McDonald's chain and saying quote
McDonald's exploits its employees McDonald's is an exploiter that we can use to get rich
the scene on the video then changes to show in your show is a McDonald's and not a McDowell's
the scene then changes to show champagne holding an ax and now he's saying I am Lawrence of
Arabia I'd like you to meet my partner the ax I am declaring war on McDonald's Champaign goes on to say that he will
decapitate one of the hostages he says quote I'm going to take out her heart put it on a skewer roast it and
then put it between two small buns champagne then says and I can do worse today I can't go back into society I've
tried I have tried counseling but there is nothing to be done I've been inside too long the only thing that's left is
the ax why and and by him having those two buns so we're we're stating that he's not
on a keto diet so oddly enough just like Leopold Dion this Maniac was somehow released back into society
[Music] I want to thank everybody so much for joining us here in the garage joining us
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author of this week's recommended reading his new book Maniac the bath school disaster and the birth of the
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These Damned Hands /// Part 2 /// 479

Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

This week we go up to Canada to explore some older cases from the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties. All of the cases are centered around two main perpetrators. Our story starts off with several missing persons cases. Join us as we take a look at some fascinating crime stories that you likely have yet to hear.

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Brief Summary

Leopold Dion, a child killer, confesses to murdering four boys, leading to his trial and eventual death in prison.

Key points

Leopold Dion's Chilling Confession. Dion describes how he allowed each boy to pray before killing them, revealing his twisted mindset.
Swift Justice for a Monster. The jury takes only two minutes to return a verdict after Dion's lengthy testimony.
Norman Champagne's Chilling Confession. Norman Champagne claimed he killed Dion on orders from his dreams, saying he felt liberated.
A Gruesome Kidnapping Plot. Norman Champagne threatened to kill a hostage in a bizarre ransom scheme against McDonald's.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

These two damned hands of mine have killed four little saints.

Dion's haunting admission during his trial.

13:16WatchNov 8, 2022

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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