The Atlanta Child Murders ////// 56 | Forensic Files

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some true [Music] crime [Music] [Music] this is true crime garage and this is the case of the
Atlanta child murders [Music] our special segment tonight is a fresh look at the series of murders in
[Music] Atlanta Aaron Jackson junr was among the youngest only 9 years old Luby Jeter was
14 Timothy Hill 13 Patrick Bazar 11 for almost 2 years the bodies have kept coming out of Atlanta's rivers and woods
and week after week police speak of sorrow and sympathy but not a solution this is just a tragic har night M that
we're going through we're not in a position today to make an arrest there are cases in history that have gone on
much longer than this has at police Task Force Headquarters there are 27 faces on
the wall 26 murdered one missing the killer there is a handful of sketches no one the same no one certain to be the
person police want almost a year after the task force was set up police can't answer who or why they don't know how or
where or even how many of the black victims may have been killed by the same person one investigator says even if the
killer walked in the door and confessed there is not enough evidence now to convict him a half dozen of the cases
may be isolated unrelated homicides the victims found near home killed perhaps by family or friends but somewhere in
the city of Atlanta there is a person who was killed 15 or 20 boys and young men the district attorney keeps a chart
on the wall with names of the dead and room for more with my theory the uh person is not abducted not kidnapped not
snatched off the street at that particular time but is willingly going with somebody for something at least at
the instance they get in the car they're going to make some money or they going to meet somebody that they're going
starting off willingly like many victims JoJo Bell 15 was a child of the streets
always in need of money he worked for his supper once in a while at the seafood carry out and always asked the
owner to give him a ride home he went walk speed tonight because because of the killing you know he's he's a joke
about it you know he's I a let the kill the kid snatch to snatch me but someone did somebody
did Bell had been a basketball buddy of Timothy Hill Hill spent his last known night at The sey Shack on gry Street the
home of a 63y old homosexual called Uncle Tom none of the victims has been found sexually abused but the obvious
question intrigues investigators Mickey McIntosh one of the adults killed hung around the same carry out where JoJo
Bell worked you know I have seen gay come down and see Mickey in the car with you know G uh it it be dressed all up
and stuff they'll come by here and sometime look for Atlanta's safety commissioner will say only what he
doesn't know where we are in the investigation right now is we do not know the person or person that are
responsible therefore we do not have the motive the killer seems to taunt police
and read press clippings after a well publicized but fudal search along a road in an outling County the next child
strangled with a rope was dumped there and when a Suburban police official criticized Atlanta's investigation a
child choked to death was left just inside that official's county line after a press report that police had found
fibers on some of the bodies six of the last seven victims have been dropped into rivers all stripped to their
undershorts or less possibly to wash away evidence NBC News has learned in some cases the synthetic fibers were
found on victim's clothing hanging in closets at home indicating those children may have visited their killer
at times before their death but authorities have had this secret evidence for weeks and it still has not
led to the killer police are undermanned and there is grumbling in the ranks one
patrolman is quoted they don't tell us anything it seems like they don't trust us the murder investigation is being run
by 103 person Task Force One official concedes it's not even certain what to tell the cop on the beat to look for the
investigation seems beset by friction and frustration we're going to Sol the cases that's our resolve the only
unanswered question right now is when meanwhile at this Cemetery the dead Bell Hill Macintosh are being buried faster
than the cemetery can supply grave markers with their names sadly some officials concede Atlanta is unlikely to
catch the killer unless he keeps on killing I will say that there's a better chance to catch him if he doesn't
[Music] stop [Music] tonight we are talking about the Atlanta child murders this is a series of
murders that took place in the great city of Atlanta Georgia way back in 1979 was when the first victim was found and
it carried all the way until 1981 it spaned about 2 years uh unfortunately saw a lot of victims in this case um
some you know there's some debate on on uh if all of the victims belong in this case or if they're actually individual
cases but depending on the source that you check out you could see a number as high as 28 victims this was a case that
uh gripped the city of Atlanta in fear um there was there were curfews there was everything that they could do to try
to bring to apprehend this killer and to stop to stop the killings yeah there was
a special task force set up by the police department so there was a and then the FBI was involved um and also
they set up this thing called The Guardian Angels which was a volunteer group mainly of like older teens and and
and uh males in their 20s and they were kind of known as like the rougher kids but these kids were then taken to the
streets trying to get any information leads uh some way of identifying a suspect because they had a lot of you
know um sketches made of you know when somebody thought they saw a suspect or but we're talking about I mean one would
be a black man one would be a white man one would be a Mexican man sometimes there would be two men um sometimes two
men so it was they didn't have very much of a solid lead at all well and on top of that too here the the citizens
forming their own task force the reason that this happens is that they start to not believe in their own police force at
some point at some point the victim number gets to be so high that they don't think that the police can solve
this some of the people thought maybe the police did not want to solve this and we'll get into that more uh as we
get into this case yeah and we also had there was rumors that the the people that they thought were suspects possibly
were wearing police uniforms and so I think that's why these task force were set up by the communities
the first victim that is is attributed to this case is Edward hope Smith uh he was a 14-year-old boy who was last seen
July 20th 1979 he was leaving a skating rink uh he was found 8 days later at nisy Lake Drive and the cause of his
death was a 22 caliber shotgun to the upper back remarkably on the same day police investig investigators found the
body of Alfred Evans a 13-year-old boy who was last seen July 25th Alfred was last known to have been walking to a
theater Alfred Evans his cause of death was listed as undetermined unfortunately
and I'm and I'm a little uncertain as to why or to the particulars of this but Alfred's body would remain unidentified
for about 14 months and this of course certainly does not help the investigation through March of 1980 four
more children disappeared this further complicating the investigation the first was Milton Harvey age 14 he was last
seen September 4th 1979 he disappeared he was out running an errand he was going to the bank for
his mother uh he was writing a yellow 10-speed bike now the bike was found a week later in Atlanta but there still
was no sign of the boy he eventually was found November 5th so this is about 2 months later he's found in a wooded area
in the neighboring city of East Point Milton Harvey had been dead about 1 month when found and of course there had
been quite a bit of decomposition that had taken place so his cause of death was listed as undetermined as well
detectives would not immediately connect Milton Harvey's death to that of the first two boys because his body was
found outside of the area the second was Yousef Bell he was last seen October 21st when he went to
the store to buy snuff for a neighbor mhm later a witness would tell the police cheing tobacco for people that
don't know what snuff is later a witness would tell the police that she saw Yousef getting into a blue car yousef's
body was found on November 8th by a School Janitor looking for a place to urinate his body was found in the crawl
space of an abandoned Elementary School building nearby the boy's home right so the so the janitor was going to go pee
in the crawl space he was going to go pee inside an abandoned building way in the cross space it's maybe he felt like
he needed some privacy I don't know seems like a strange situation to me but that's who found the boy's body now keep
in mind this abandoned Elementary School building was near the boy's home and because the boy's body was found indoors
and not outside in wooded areas like the earlier found victims his case was not immediately connected to the others as
well yeah the boy was found wearing the clothing that he was last scen wearing and he had been hit over the head twice
and his cause of death was strangulation the third was Angel lanir this is a 12-year-old female this is the
first girl victim that we would see lanir had disappeared on May 4th I'm sorry March 4th
1980 she left her house around 400 p.m. wearing a denim outfit and she was last seen at a friend's house watching TV she
is found 6 days later in a wooded area and she had been stabbed to death now there are some conflicting stories here
I saw a couple of uh sources here and I do want to point this out couple sources
that said that she was stabbed to death and a couple sources that said she had been stabbed but cause of death was
strangulation yeah this is going to be a repeating cycle that you'll see uh different reports for each victim mhm
she was wearing the same clothes in which she had left home but there was something different here something very
different a pair of white panties had been stuffed in her mouth and her hands were bound with electrical tape yeah and
they believe that those panties did not belong to her correct they were not hers
so this is March 10th 1980 now here's something kind of strange here Captain right we have Angel
laner who's found March 10th 1980 and she's found it in the wooded area near Campbellton Road and Willowbrook Road so
about a year later the body of Jeffrey Lamar matys is found in the same location but the crazy thing here is
matthys disappeared on March 11th this is just one day after they found the body of lanir so you know he he took
took the girl he dumps her in a location and then she's found and the very next day he's out abducting another victim
and they would they would find this victim in the same area so whomever did this takes two victims within a week of
one another and dumps the bodies in the same location now I have to wonder how long until he returned to the site of
where he left Angel's body and then he's back there again dumping another body and this is right after the police were
there this is taunting it's it's no doubt in my mind that the killer he he felt like he could not be caught and
that his armor was so strong that they would never catch up to him mhm so Jeffrey matys was an 11-year-old boy he
disappeared when he went to run an erand for his mother he was wearing gray jogging pants brown shoes and a white
and green shirt a girl said that she had seen Jeffrey get into a car with a light-skinned man and a dark skinned man
so here we go the first report of seeing two possible uh Killers or abductors from the way you're reporting it seems
like this is the first time that anybody's been seen yeah this is any line we have a vehicle that was was
spotted ear the blue vehicle and then we have uh now these two suspects and now he's seen getting in the vehicle with
with two people and this vehicle is blue as well this is a he's seen getting into
a car no description of the vehicle just a a brief description of each man now these two men could have had nothing to
do with this case it could have just been a car that he happened to get into on May 18th a 14-year-old boy his name
is Eric Middlebrooks uh he answers the phone and then he leaves in a hurry on his
bicycle his body is found very quickly it's found the next day along with his bike now here's a Twist here he's found
in the rear garage of an Atlanta bar uh next door is the Georgia Department of offender
Rehabilitation he has stab wounds on his chest and his arms these are like small
stab wounds and he died of blunt force trauma to the Head his his pockets in his pants were pulled inside out yeah
see uh it seems like again with a lot of these victims I mean a lot of times people think well if there is a killer
then there he's killing uh his victims all in the same manner and in this case you kind of see this mostly repeating
theme of strangulation but not always again in this case uh not lining up with the strangulation either but again like
you said that there was this taunting you know effect going on so maybe it was because um there was something in the
paper that made him decide well I'm going to leave a victim out in the open yeah and this is one that I actually
thought when when reviewing this case I wasn't convinced that all of the victims
listed were part of the same case I thought that there were a few that might be individual cases this is one that I
thought could have been an individual case um but this is one where they will find evidence to be able to link this to
some of of the other cases the reason why I thought this was an individual case is this this young man he had um
some run-ins with some thuggish people he had uh he had testified in court against some people uh against like a a
young gang of kids um and I think it was initially thought that that was yeah retaliation for testifying and EXA and
exactly he's found in a different situation he's not found in a wooded area on June 9th 12-year-old Christopher
Richardson he is last seen going to a public swimming pool he's last seen wearing blue shorts a light blue shirt
and blue tennis shoes and he is found the the following January with yet another boy who was killed and his name
was Earl Terell on June 22nd 7-year-old latan Wilson disappeared from her parents apartment this is the second
girl victim that we're seeing here according to a witness she appeared to have been abducted by two men one of
whom was seen climbing into the apartment Window and then holding Wilson in his arms as he spoke to the other man
in the parking lot on October 18th Wilson's body was found in a fenced in area at the end of verbina Street in
Atlanta by by then the body had been skeletonized and so again we seeing a situation where there no cause of death
could be established the next day June 23rd 10-year-old Aaron wheat disappeared after having been seen near
a local grocery store getting into a blue Chevrolet mhm with either one or two African-American men the witness's
description of the car matched a description of a similar car implicated in an earlier case this was the Jeffrey
matthys disappearance at 6: p.m. the victim was seen at a shopping center the following day wha's body was found under
a bridge the official cause of death was iation from a broken neck suffered in a
fall in July of 1980 two more children Anthony Carter and Earl Terell were murdered we talked about Terell he was
found with uh with Christopher Richardson's body between August and November of 1980 five more killings took
place there were no known victims during the month of December all of the victims
were African American children between the ages of 7 and 14 and most had been exfix the murders continued into 1981
the first known victim in the new year was lubi Gater uh who disappeared January 3rd he had been last seen in the
area of Stewart Lakewood Shopping Center in southwest Atlanta geeter's body was found on February 5th in a wooded area
this was just Jeter what's that it's pronounced Jeter oh thank you just like dere dere Jeter but spelled differently
uh so so Jeter this his body is found 70 feet from Van diver road which runs off
of Campton road which remember this is where two earlier victims had been found Jeter's friend Terry Pew also went
missing in January now an anonymous caller called and told police where to find Pew's body they found Pew's body in
Rockdale County so we have another jurisdiction to throw into the mix here Terry was last seen at the crystal
that's Crystal with the K restaurant on January 22nd Terry frequented a place called The Omni uh this is also a place
that a couple of the other victims were known to have hang to hang out it was like kind of a Teenage spot to go to uh
Patrick balazar would be another victim and he hung out at the Omni as well Patrick was
11 and he was last seen in the evening hours on Courtland Street this was February 6th and his body was found
February 14th behind the corporate Square Office Park this is in deal deal County did I say that right yeah I think
that's correct that's pretty close uh but again another jurisic enjoy the hate mail yeah he was found fully clothed uh
although his clothing was unbuttoned and the cause of his death was expiation due
to leature in February of 1981 an Atlanta newspaper ran an article stating that the matching fibers that matching fibers
were found on two of the victim's bodies this was a big turning point in our case
because the killer just like we talked about last week our killer is reading the newspaper he's watching the news and
he's reacting and adapting what he is doing to go against the investigation now there's one thing I do
want to touch on here real quick Captain you know that some in some circles and I've heard it said uh several times and
I think this this is a common misconception amongst the general public and you hear this from time to time that
serial killers want to be caught maybe not on the surface but somewhere deep down inside that they want to be caught
and that is why they end up getting caught in the end so here's the thing he's adapting right
so go ahead and believe that they want to be caught if that makes you feel safer but but the absolute truth is no
no they don't they don't want to be caught the majority of them do not want to be caught there there have been a few
there's one I and don't ask me his name right now but what's his name there's one serial killer I can remember that
turned himself in um and you know so there there might be a few that want to be caught but but the majority of them
do not want to be caught at all because this is their drug killing and all that is involved in in the in the ritual for
them this is it's their what gets them high you know the sexual assaults involved the rape or the just act of
kidnapping the terror on the person's face the look in the in their eye when they're strangling them it's this is all
part of their of their game the it's little graphic for me but right but those those are the things that that I
think that's assuming a lot going yeah I think that's I think that's what we assume I think especially in this case
too A lot of people will say that these aren't connected um there you know they're not
connected because the different deaths and that a serial killer would kill somebody the same way over and over and
over there would be no uh inconsist which we've seen time and time again that that's normally not true either
well I don't know that it's assuming a whole lot of stuff because I mean again time after time in these cases we see
the killer adapting his techniques to elude detection you know he is this guy is now dumping his victims in the river
and leaving them in only a pair of shorts or nude so that there are little to no hairs fibers pet hair anything on
the bodies yeah they the the police end up talking about these fibers and therefore then it's like well now I got
to change up my game how can I dump the bodies without there being fibers on them I'll dump them into the water yeah
and and even if I do happen to still leave fibers animal hair pet you know yeah it's hair a lot of evidence the the
water should be washing this away but there there's uh conflicting reports on this anyways because there's multiple
times that the news um in the 1979 and 1980 they're talking about that uh the majority of these victims were sexually
abused and then later on uh it's really hard to find any talk about sexual abuse
and any of the reports after you know 81 MH uh and as we said after this report comes out in in February of 1981 now the
new victims are being dumped into the rivers uh in March there were four more murders that took place uh this included
Eddie Duncan he's the first adult victim um in April there was Larry Rogers was murdered and there were two more adults
John Porter and Jimmy Ray Payne well and that's again if you assume that all these victims are part of the whole
Atlanta child murders and then after that we have William Barrett he went missing May 16th 1981 his body was found
close to his home and this is the last victim added to I'm sorry the last victim added to this list that I'm aware
of is Nathaniel C who is 27 years old so we're seeing all kinds of different activity here right if if we're to
believe that they're all connected and it's a really tough thing to go through because there are so many victims in
such a short amount of time you know if we assume that all 28 are connected depending on what report you're going
with um that's 28 victims that they find within a 2-year period it's becomes this
crazy list and so you know sorry that we have to go through that morbid uh list but uh this also is the reason why they
spawn uh they spawned a book called the list and if you dive into this case more
you're going to see that as a reference point over and over that's called the list uh we'll talk more about this case
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from our beer break cheers everybody cheers we've already gone through the victims in the Atlanta child murders
case and earlier we touched upon the idea that the the locals the civilians had set up their own task force because
they weren't really believing in the police efforts and didn't trust the police to to finish the job right but
they had we've already are seeing multiple jurisdictions multiple agencies working together to try to solve this
case yeah the FBI is involved at this point as well the FBI gets involved as well as the BCI units they come in and
they're trying to figure out how to apprehend this person that is killing off the youth in Atlanta mhm now there's
a couple problems here though they they come up with some different ideas and we'll touch on those in a minute what
what I do want to get into right now is the super cops so enter the super cops uh these this was an idea that they
would grab some of the detectives and police officers that were involved in some of the most notorious cases in the
United States they would get them together for a meeting they would present them with the victims much like
we just did earlier and they would asked the super cops to as a group form several opinions about the case yeah
kind of a profiling session yes uh so what who were the super cops these were people that were involved in the most
notorious cases uh they were looking for officers and detectives who had handled
one or two or sorry one of two different types of Serial cases the first being detectives who did not know that a
series of murders had taken place before the offender was caught the second being
detectives who were already pursuing serial cases but did not know who the killer was and here is a list of the
members making up the task force that was the Super cops we have Captain Sydney Smith and detective David milon
these were two guys that investigated the sexually sadistic Killers Dean coral and Elmer Wayne Henley who killed 17
people and buried their bodies in a boat storage building in Texas mhm next we have detective Frank Brun he was one of
the detectives in the famous John Wayne gasy case from near Chicago gasy killed 27 young men and buried their bodies in
his crawl space and some in the yard as well we also have inspector Joseph barelli uh and we've actually discussed
him on this show he investigated the famous Son of Sam case in New York City and of course you know he he was the one
that was out shooting couples that were sitting in their cars we have Lieutenant
Ed H Henderson and detective Philip saruchi from Los Angeles and Bellingham Washington they investigated the
Hillside Strangler case we also have inspector Jeff BR he investigated the zebra killings in San Francisco which
were committed by African-American religious extremists and last but not least we have Lieutenant Frank Chase and
detective Robert Keele from the Ted Bundy murder cases now the super cops as said they were presented with with the
cases and with the crimes and they were asked to come up with they had three objectives all right the first was to
give an opinion on how many murders were connected the second objective was to provide a criminal profile and the third
to give a plan for apprehension now let's talk about the first objective murders connected the
super cops believed that at least 23 of the 27 murders that they had reviewed were connected and committed by the same
person okay and using this they they they're going off of the idea that they had animal hairs and fibers linking nine
of the victims so there was not much debate over those nine right yeah but then we had a lot of the victims that
ended up in the water mhm so that could uh you know deter some of the evidence so I I think that's what they're going
off of is we got nine that we can link so then we can probably link some of the ones that went into the water as well
you're exactly right we have the nine that were were linked by fibers or animal hairs or both um and then we have
other victim that were found with some of those victims or near those victims uh and again as mention or they also had
relationships to the other victims and then we start seeing the victims showing up in the rivers so this is the uh this
is the killer adapting to the investigation and they believe that these are all linked as well so that
bumps up the number quite a bit they did say that they could not and would not rule out the other four murders uh all
27 could have been the work of one serial killer but they felt very strongly about the 23 mhm the second
objective was to create a criminal profile now nobody it's hard to find somebody that's willing to take
responsibility for this okay uh there was a theory going out there in the beginning of this case and and it was
going on until these super cops got involved now this theory was that these crimes were committed by a white racist
group mhm by white racist person or persons or an occult uh and they used these theories thinking with the thought
that somebody or someone's they were working together to eliminate African-American youths in the
community to create this all kinds of fear yeah well I I I don't think fear would be the type right motive I think
what if it was a white supremacist group what they're trying trying to do is create one fear but outrage and then
basically what you want to cause is aace war well the first thing that the super
cops come up with and they're not very far into the presentation that they all seem to agree that the Atlanta child
murders were more likely committed by an African-American male in his 20s and they yeah okay and they were going they
have some theories on this all right let's hear these these genius theories okay very ining but uh some of the
killings had victims disappearing and or were last seen in areas popular with young African-American males MH um and
affixation affixation was being the predominant method of death and this does not logically fit the white racist
Theory these were not terrorist murders this was committed by somebody a young African-American male in his 20s whose
method of operation reflected a personality with a need for Hands-On activity with each victim before and
after death this would be a killer that had the ability to move about freely he would have to have had relationships in
the community and he needed his presence in the area he he so he could be in the
area on any given day that he would choose and it it would not be considered anything out of the ordinary he was
somebody that could walk amongst the people and not not stand out the super cops also believed that the killer was
taking victims that had no idea that they were in danger asphixiation is the most likely cause of death in most of
the cases and in those cases there are no signs of struggle this most likely points out that the killer was
strangling them by surprise or they were drowsy he was he was doing something to
create to so they would let their guard down uh and that he'd be able to surprise wouldn't they have a toxicology
report that was the first thing that the super cops asked of the Atlanta police Department that they wanted to see if
there were toxic toxicology reports done on the victims they were not provided with this the super cops did stick with
this Theory though they were saying that it was most likely that he was using drugs or alcohol to induce this
drowsiness and that he could quickly and and well and what we hear from the one uh I believe he's a
detective in the trailer is he says that he believes that the that these victims
are going with uh the suspect willingly so there is no like struggle there's no like hey get in the car I got a gun that
so so again going with the super cop Theory yeah and then once that they were drugged or drowsy that he could then
quickly suffocate the children or the victims um and one thing that they're pointing out here is just like that
other detective said that you just spoke about that for somebody to be able to do
this for a killer to be able to do this this would mean he would have had to have patience and a plan and it meant
that the killer would have spent considerable time with each victim from the initial point of contact to the
induction of the state of drowsiness and then to the eventual murder to accomplish all of this meant that the
killer was deceptive and that the victims trusted him they also believed that the killer would have had something
that the young victims would have wanted and that this would be how he would lure
them into his trap money money or something you're exactly right I mean all these victims were coming from poor
areas yeah and they thought that the Killer's line of approach was most likely an offer of a short-term job to
make quick money mhm and they also noted that this is something that they had seen in their previous cases and that
this is a typical serial killer Lure to the young victims the killer may have looked like a role model or a big
brother type figure he is able to get his victims that range in age from 9 years old to 28 years old old under his
complete control mhm and what added to his ability to attract each one of those boys was that they were exact clones of
the murder of the murderer himself of what he thought of his own self-image he looked thought walked and talked just
like the victims and that would be what would appeal to the victims the most he identified with his victims so well that
his victims probably never were afraid of him he would have presented himself as educated well integrated into the
community and always having a good job his victims because they were young they were unable to see through his mask of
superficiality so the killer has the ability to mingle across a spectrum of Elementary boys teenage victims and
young adults that would lead you to expect to find the killers comfortable in each of those atmospheres he was or
probably still is a volunteer or employee of a boys of some type of boy club you know like the Boy Scouts of
America or the YMCA or so on yeah or after school program and he very well likely might have been a volunteer
substitute teacher or vendor in an elementary school he may have frequented boy prostitutes or been involved in the
gay scene he is not likely to have been an out ofthe closet homosexual in fact he might have been known to hate
homosexuals in some circles and be superficially heterosexual in his own family then there was the need for total
possession of the victims by engaging in postmortem activities with them he had a
sex drive that embraced necrophiliac Tendencies and a willingness to spend considerable amount of time with the
victims after their death mhm and he was also leaving the victims nude or close to nude imposing them in sexually
degrading manner as the police began to look more and more inept this gave him a
feeling of superiority he wanted the police to feel psychologically like he really felt helpless and controlled they
also knew that the killer was very aware of the environment and sensitive to the
nature of the police pursuit and clever enough to modify his methods of movement
and he and the people that he prayed on again we talk about the changing of victim dump sites from mainly land to
Rivers was the response to the publicity of his crimes this also shows his ability to monitor the police
investigation through public resources how the police tracked him mainly with the what they were doing with the bodies
they were Examining The Remains and they're looking for these similar fibers and this was very very important to him
and then he chose to leave the victims in rivers and this would diminish these chances greatly he did not want to get
caught ever the killer was engaging in postmortem activities with the victim should have led investigators to check
out individuals who had worked no matter how briefly in the death death service field or were applicants for places like
funeral homes or the medical examiner's office that was their lengthy uh profile
of the killer but when it breaks down when you break it down to Simplicity what they're talking about is an
African-American male who can go into these neighborhoods and be almost unseen because he fits into the neighborhoods
people don't expect to you know a white racist person could stand out and might be more noticeable if there's children
getting into his vehicle but they want to point out that his his race and his age and they also talk about some of the
things of his personality they talk about he could be a volunteer or somebody that would work with children
or work inside of communities somebody that would be trusted someone that the victims would go along with willingly
and not ever suspect that they're in danger now I think this is a fantastic profile but of course I've been able to
see it Through The Eyes of somebody that's seen the case solved now at the time the local police decided that they
did not want to release this profile they wanted to keep this to themselves whether they believe the profile or not
I don't know but what they did continue to do is allow the public to believe that it was a white racist person or
white racist group or or the ult that was involved in these child killings their third objective was to come up
with a plan for apprehension now we do have to give credit to the Atlanta police force because they already had a
plan that they decided that they wanted to run it by the super cops to see if the super cops agreed with this plan and
if they thought that it would work the reason being it was going to be a very expensive plan to execute now their plan
was they now know that the killer wants to dump the bodies in the rivers well they have two rivers to be concerned
with they have the uh the South River and the chattah the chattah huchi river yep so they have what they have bridges
that they want to Monitor and they want to monitor these Bridges around the clock because they believe if they can
catch the person red-handed on the bridge with the body in his car or leaving the bridge after a body is
dumped then they've got their guy right yeah or possibly start to deter him from
dumping the bodies into the river so they have a but go ahead both of those rivers are gigantic so yeah to assume
that uh one that a killer is just dumping the body above a bridge I think is silly for one CU I mean there's a
million entrance points to that River MH and so so the fact that we go okay we're
going to go with these two locations this is what we believe we believe because of the fibers and what what you
haven't been talking about is the fibers that they believe that they have on these victims come from a vehicle
possibly a trunk or something so that's why their uh the Atlanta cops want to hone
in on these Bridges but I still think it's it's asinine because why would you stop on these major roads on these major
Bridges to dump off a body it doesn't make a lot of sense to me well what their plan's going to entail is that
they have 11 bridges that they want to monitor MH and they estimate that each one of these Bridges it's going to take
about five persons to monitor these Bridges because they need to put one person on each end of the bridge to
record who goes on and who leaves they also need somebody in the middle of the bridge or below the bridge to monitor
the water to see if there's a splash noise heard uh this would be them the killer dropping the body into the water
right they also needed two persons to send out Nets because if they need to prove that it's a body that was dumped
you know that it wasn't just somebody throwing a brick into the river um so what their plan was was as soon soon as
a splash was heard that officer or patrolman he would then make a call out to the to the persons with Nets they
would they would deploy the Nets and then the persons on each end of the bridge would be responsible for
monitoring and recording who the person was that left the bridge or had most recently arrived on the bridge and the
reason why this is going to be so expensive we talked about five officers per Bridge 11 Bridges and now you're
talking about guys working in 8h hour shifts so they can watch these Bridges around the clock now what is the math on
that that's like 165 guys just for a 24 hour shift to monitor 11 Bridges mhm to me this is not the best use of tax
dollars that's a good thought too because you don't know how long how many days in a row are you going to have to
monitor these Bridges it could go on for days or weeks and we saw at one point in
this case that there was a month or so without even with with no victims right um but they do catch a break uh this is
during a stake out of the bridges on May 22nd 1981 um they one of the officers hears a
splash beneath a bridge um another officer notes that a white 1970 Chevrolet station wagon had turned
around and drove back across the bridge after going up to the bridge it stopped turned around and came back two police
officers later then stopped this station wagon this would be about a half a mile
from the bridge the driver turns out to be 23-year old old Wayne Williams now they stop him they question
him where are you going what are you doing he claims that he is he has an appointment uh for an audition he is a
uh music promoter and a photographer kind like a talent scout basically and he's got an addition with an audition
with a girl named Cheryl Johnson she was trying to be a singer um and Williams claimed that she had lived in a nearby
town but police could not find any record of this person or the actual appointment yeah he also claims that he
didn't turn around on the bridge he claims that he turned around he actually went across the bridge and then actually
further down turned around they claim he turned around on the bridge he claimed that never happened two days later on
May 24th the nude body of Nathaniel Carter who was 27 years old he's one of the victims that we spoke about earlier
was found floating uh down the river this was about a few miles from the bridge where the police had heard the
Splash and had seen the suspicious vehicle and stopped Williams but here's where it starts getting pretty muddy is
because there's actually four W four eyewitnesses maybe more eyewitnesses that believe that they saw Nathaniel
alive the day after they stopped Williams on the bridge so this would be on May 23rd Williams is stopped on the
22nd right so basically this would make their suspicion n and void because he never dumped this body on that day the
other issue with this and this is where it gets more muddy is they believe they don't know how long Nathaniel was in the
water and it could have been up to 2 weeks based on the evidence that they found they couldn't tell maybe he's been
in the water for a few days maybe a few weeks mhm and so now you get these very crazy opposing uh accounts because if
people did see him a well then Williams is not your guy but also if they did see
him alive then how how is it not clear how long he was in the water because he would would have only been in the water
two days at that point right and but they do have in their defense on their side they have that Williams Wayne
Williams was the only person that was stopped on their their monitoring of these bridges yeah but how many weeks
were they monitoring these Bridges it was several weeks I believe it was four weeks yeah so you got four weeks and you
got nothing's happening how many cops were we talking about in a 24-hour shift 165 so 165 and and 24 hours you don't
pull over anybody suspicious then you pull over this young 23-year-old black black boy basically mhm and and because
he turned around he turned around somewhere whether it was on the bridge or if it was a little further down from
the bridge I think that's why they pulled him over I don't think I who knows if they heard
Splash yeah it it's been called the splash hurt around the world um and but regardless they pull over Williams but
the problem that we have with this is yeah you hear a splash who who you don't know that that's Nathaniel yes they find
Nathaniel but the two opposing accounts are one he's been in the water for weeks
so weeks before you heard a splash that happened two weeks ago that's either the
account or the other account is that Nathaniel was actually live the day after M and so there would be no splash
at all unless unless the one eyewitness account is completely wrong it's not one
it's at least four at least four and and and different reports that I've seen has
said four credible eight total now that's a lot of eyewitnesses when when Williams is
pulled over um the officers notice a 24in nylon is in his vehicle um and this this would
be what they would say would be the um murder weapon in several of these cases mhm and again we talk about how the
attack may have went down um these were attacks where there didn't seem to be any type of Defense wounds on some of
these victims some of the victims didn't even appear to have reached up to defend
themselves to pull whatever it was from their neck that was choking them um and they they believe that this when you
took that that nylon cord that they found uh that when you would lay it across the neck of some of these victims
that that it would match up perfectly in size yeah I now I don't know the science
on that I don't know what changes with the neck after death occurs or yeah but then when they go to trial they don't
bring this up as the murder murder weapon yeah and another thing because when they go to trial they basically say
we do not have the murder weapon yeah and the other thing that that makes Williams look bad but again something
that they cannot use in in court is that he does fail a polygraph examination um now we're we have to
Circle back to well okay first of all he's a music promoter so we know he's lying uh it's kind of like a lawyer
right how do you know they're lying their mouths are moving their lips are moving yeah so it's I think it's the
same thing the other problem too is that you know these profiles these super cops
as you call them they say that the that the perpetrator would be having um you know killing these victims and taking
them places and take and these these victims would have to go back to Williams's house now one one would think
so right and and the only fiber that matches is this carpet fiber correct that could be in thousands of houses but
therefore it's either a transfer Williams is transferring this carpet from Williams onto the victim or the
victim ends up in William's house now how is it likely William's mother is what she's a teacher mhm and what's his
father is um I think he's a teacher or something I think he is a teacher yes yeah so two
Educators and he has to get these uh these kids into his house uh whether they're murdered beforehand or after
hand and you're going to tell me that they have no suspicion of this doesn't make a lot of logical sense sense to me
you're exactly right you you are exactly right but the but with the fibers okay so we have fibers from a carpet from the
Williams residen MH uh was found to match those that were found on two of the victims additional fibers from the
williams' home their vehicles and their dog were later matched to fibers discovered on other victim yeah but
matched is uh they're using that word pretty Loosely because when they first found the dog fibers they claimed that
it was from a Siberian Husky mhm but then once they got Williams He what does Williams has he he has a German Shepherd
so therefore they said okay well yeah well this pretty much matches a Siberian Husky but we're going to it also matches
a ger German Shepherd well what range are you going I mean it it matches a dog we know it's dog hair close enough I
mean that's what it seems like to me you don't make a you don't make uh a report
that you have dog hairs and it's this breed and then later on say well it's all it could be this other breed as well
well and then you have your four eyewitnesses that say that they saw Nathaniel Carter alive the next day on
the 23rd however there was an eyewitness that said that they had seen Nathaniel Carter holding hands with Wayne Williams
on the night of the 22nd that's the night that police believe he was killed and then dumped in the river and this
eyewitness account is a little fuzzy anyways because I I believe the first account was that he was holding hands
with a white male and then later on that recanted to no it would be Williams Because Williams was a lighter skinned
black man and so it was like oh I kind of got that wrong well again in this case we have tons of eyewitness reports
seeing white man white man with a black man we also have this report coming out too that I saw him with a white man uh
two white men and one of the white men had a a visible scar on his right cheek SL um jaw area and does and this is a
eyewitness account that comes o comes out more and more and more okay Williams has no scar on his right cheek so are
these people just misidentifying everything but I thought he had a some type of birth mark on his right
cheek I I don't know if you look at the picture I don't see it myself that may have been confused for a uh for a scar
um it should be pointed out the vehicle that he's pulled over uh the night of when they believed that Williams was
dumping the body was actually his parents' vehicle he was living with his parents at the time and they had a
station wagon which they recently just received because before that they had a blue vehicle which we have the accounts
the eyewitnesses saying they saw a blue vehicle and what makes this kind of interesting as far as the Williams
scenario goes is during this whole time they have this blue Ford I can't remember what it's called but it's
constantly breaking down so they're constantly getting new rental cars um and because he's like upper
middle class we're not upper middle class I'd just say middle class right uh even so much so that the detectives when
they were like okay now here's our number one suspect even when they went to the house the first thing was oh jeez
this is a nice place it was very shocking for the detectives but all these cars that
they're giving them majority of the time are forwards so all of them would have the same lining in the trunk normally
the same lighting lining and you know where your feet go um but they have records of all that and that was
presented in the trial as well uh unfortunately for Williams a lot of that um does not exonerate him yeah and it
it's interesting because having access to so many different Vehicles probably helped him elude detection for so long I
mean you you get confusing reports all we saw this car oh we saw that car with the next victim and so on and so forth
that goes that helps Williams carry out these crimes and go undetected furthermore you know he's driving his
parents car the night that he's pulled over but he also had his own vehicle as well so we see an additional vehicle
that he had access to yeah and I I and a lot of the stuff that I read they don't
talk much about that it just seems like it's pretty maybe that vehicle isn't working in working order too I mean he
is you know basically doing some freelance photography and VI I think videography as well uh but primarily
he's like a this like kind of a loser music promoter you know a fast talker trying to make uh something big happen
you know talked about how you know we have this group and we want to model them after the Jackson 5
well I got this group too I want to model it after the Beatles the bestselling group of all time so he's
he's kind of a fast talker well speaking of of the the uh the music promoter uh one thing that they noticed after the
case Okay this was after the fact um they noticed that on several telephone polls around where kids were last seen
or had gone missing from uh there was a sign posted on some of these telephone polls and it read I'm going to read it
just as it reads okay the sign said can you sing or play an instrument if you are between the ages if you are between
11 and 21 male or female and you would like to become a professional Entertainer you can apply for positions
with professional recording acts no experience is necessary training is provided all interviews private and free
for more information call between 300 p.m. and 700 p.m. and then it gives a a 10-digit phone number there uh
44 code right which is his parents house I presume and well yeah the the number was for Wayne Williams yeah now here's
another issue with this whole thing though because Wayne Williams claims that yes we were a talent scout we are
looking for talent and that when these murders were taking place that they actually contacted the the special task
force that they set up just to go over these murders and explain to them what they were doing mhm
so again that's something that wasn't brought up on trial either yeah it is strange though how
much the and I'm not saying that he's guilty because he matches the profile presented by the super cops but it is
strange how much he does match that profile right I mean he he's the right age he's the right race uh he has the
right involvement in the community uh some of his freelance work as a photographer was taking school pictures
so he was familiar with those those environments and those that age group of kids um and then the other thing they
said with the possible offer of a short-term job for quick money uh we see these these signs posted on the
telephone polls where it's offering you know if you want to get involved and become a musician or an Entertainer a
professional Entertainer call me at this number yeah that's the problem I have with it is again the number he's using
to have them call is his parents number both being Educators themselves and I just don't think that you know I'm I'm
sure there's a lot of teachers that by the end of the year they're tired of their brat students but uh nobody's
going to stand by why you're going to let your son murder these these kids right so that doesn't make a lot of
sense to me and also you hire these super cops and they just so happen to come up with a profile that it's a young
black male and this fits a better narrative for him because if it is if it is a a racist white guy or a racist
white group then we got a we got a whole another issue right well of course um but that's what I believe that's what
the community wanted it to be in the end and that's why you saw the uprising of these uh civilian groups that were
coming up with their own task force um I I got to give the my hat is off to the super cops I believe that they were on
to something and I believe that in the end the right guy was apprehended now how many of these cases was he involved
in I can't say well technically so what happened is he went to trial they they convicted him of two of the murders two
of the adult murders yeah none of them being children and um zero there I mean they didn't have the the murder weapon
uh I mean almost little to no evidence at all he gets tried for those he's sentenced to two life terms in prison
and then what they do with the other cases they just close them yeah they they closed the majority if not all of
the cases and attributed all the crimes to Wayne Williams but we do have to address the
elephant in the room right Captain there one doesn't have to look very far to see
you can see and hear and read multiple interviews with Wayne Williams where he's proclaiming his innocence to this
very day yeah and normally this is something that I mean this is something that happens by a lot of suspects and
murder cases this one's a little different though because in 1986 Spin Magazine runs an article mhm in 1985
they get a tip from the group Guardian Angels this is a group that was pretty successful they would take um citizens
of normally urban areas they'd be walking in the streets getting information uh and basically keeping
Street crime down to a minimum they contact Spin Magazine saying hey by the way we have some information for you
that the prosecutors got it wrong we think that these murders or at least majority of these murders were um
racially related and they were done by the clue clu clux Clan mhm so Spin Magazine wants to know more about this
they set uh Barry Michael Cooper which did the first uh published story on crack cocaine and Bob
keading um and he did a story on the live a scandal they go down to Atlanta and they investigate these uh claims now
the tip was that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation was actually at the time uh that they were looking into Williams
or before Williams they had this parallel investigation so you had the Child Murders happening but there's a a
parallel investigation into the clan being involved not in all the murders but being involved in one murder with a
small town boy and if that was true they believe that that one murder connected them to
another 14 mhm so where does this all come from it comes from informance the first informant would talk about his
relationship with Charles T Sanders Charles T Sanders was a known Clansman he was uh connected with the New Order
of the clu CLS Clan one day this inform it his name was BJ Jones uh was out with
Charles Sanders and uh Jeter one of the boys that went missing actually hit Sanders car with a go-kart this pissed
off Sanders he said I am going to get that black bastard and I'm going to choke him to death with my and I'm not
going to say it um didn't think much of it the Charles Sanders also was running his mouth to
this informant this BJ Jones basically talking all this stuff about how you know they're going to they're killing
these children he wanted to uh recruit him into the clan because Jones had some experience with bombs and explosives he
just thought that Sanders was just running off of the mouth well once Jeter came up missing
this BJ Jones then submits this stuff to the police saying look I was with I was
with him the day that his car was hit and then uh then he made these remarks the next time that we we uh saw Jeter
and then Jeter shows up dead now when Joe when Jeter shows up dead uh his gal his galal are missing his lower pelvic
area and both feet are also missing yeah he he was the boy that he would have been about 14 or 15 years old he
wouldn't have had a driver's license so it makes sense that he was in a go-kart uh he he hits uh Sanders vehicle and uh
he was the one that disappeared on January 3rd and his body wasn't found until February 5th this was in a wooded
area uh he was last seen in the area of Stewart Lakewood Shopping Center in southwest Atlanta right and we have an
eyewitness claiming that she's saw Jeter get into a car with a tall white male with a scar on his face scar on his neck
I believe yeah yeah scar on his face or his neck that's roughly the the eyewitness testimony well this would
come into play because now we have this parallel investigation into the clan and
now we have somebody to Target we have Charles T Sanders now his family the Sanders family there's at least five
members five known members that are involved in the clu clux Clan multiple charges multiple
convictions to these members and their family everything from child molestation murder assault battery drunk driving
these are just not great people uh also charges with narcotics uh Charles Sanders was a known uh that his business
was narcotics basically so the the main suspect is Charles Sanders the Brother Don Sanders
uh there's also like I believe a Terry Sanders and then we have a Carlton Sanders the Carlton Sanders is the dad
he's a tall white man people would describe him a sunk in jaw but he has a scar on the right side of his neck
Carlon Carlton Sanders was charged with over 35 counts of child molestation he was acquitted on those charges but um
you know this family overall is just connected to some evil stuff so you make threats to somebody saying that you're
going to choke somebody to death um and then they end up dead dead by strangulation but missing body parts
yeah and on top of that as you said the the the father matching the description roughly of what the one eyewitness says
is the last person you know he he had seen he or she had seen him getting into the vehicle with a person matching that
description um now how does this tie them to any of the other victims well remember we had said that um that Jeter
he had frequented a place called The Omni um this would be a place that several of the other victims were have
known to have hung out as well as his body was found 70 ft North from vindver Road uh which runs off of Campton road
which was where two of the earlier victims were found another piece of evidence is that they have actually a
tape recorded phone conversation with Sanders talking about wanting to buy guns and grenades and things like that
because basically they were tapping his phone and all this basically proves is the mo the motive if we kill
these little black children and we can create a race war and and and if that's their motive well
we kind of know that there's that's their motive because they're also collecting weapons at the same point
right and not only collecting weapons but he is urging and encouraging other clan members to arm them eles into to
create these arsenals and and um because he even says that if there were to be a
race war I believe he even puts a date on it and says that this this will happen sometime in 1981 so you better
gear up and be prepared uh because you're going to be involved in this and and one one wonders if they were
preparing to come forward and say hey we're responsible for these murders or if they were being or if they were
prepared that they were going to get busted so some some odd things in the JoJo Bell case was that JoJo Bell runs
in tells his friend hey look there was this white man and a black man they wanted me get in their
car um you know he thought it was a little sketchy he told his friend he ended up leaving that night his friend
saw him missing on the Evening News uh JoJo Bell's work the captain and Peg I believe that's his work or a place
that he would do odd chores for for a little bit of pay or maybe even just dinner they get a call the following
evening and the assistant manager answers the phone and on the other line it says this is Jojo and they're about
to kill me and I'm about dead and they're about to kill me Jerry they're about to kill me then the phone went
dead now again in this report he's he is stating they yeah it's not saying he he's saying they and again it doesn't go
along with what the super cops were saying they were saying that uh this would take somebody that had patience
and had a plan and that the the victims most likely at no time would suspect that they were going to be in
danger and then uh nine days after JoJo um goes missing that t Timothy Hill JoJo's best friend goes missing as well
they get another uh um mysterious phone call to this cap Captain Peg restaurant and this one is
from a woman sounding white and uh somewhere maybe in her 30s she says uh her man is dangerous she says JoJo Bell
was different from the other kids who had been murdered because she liked him and she was trying to have him release
she said do not call the police um because if they did that this person would kill her too now she just
says she's talking more singular her man her man is dangerous and heck for all we know these
could just be prank phone calls um but you know again these are things in the trial of uh Wayne Williams that are not
brought to light at this point the parallel investigation into the clu hooks Clan or just members uh especially
the investigation to the Sanders family it's full-blown all out wiretapping and they have a conversation basically what
they're trying to do is find something that's a little more concrete we know that they're buying weapons we have
these um this informant that said that um he heard Sanders Charles Sanders threatened this boy um Jeter that ends
up missing or went missing and then found dead so they're ramping up this investigation they get this phone call I
could read it to you all but it's in the article the spin article if you want to
check that out uh I'll try to put a link or something in in the show description but basically it's not
Charles Sanders talking it's Terry Sanders and Donald Sanders and back and forth through this conversation Donald
Sanders basically uh you know is trying to what are you up to tonight oh not much okay well I might swing by okay
well I'll see you later and then the one guy goes you're going to go look at for
another bow he's like yeah I'm going to go I'll go look around uh for another kid and scope out some areas now this is
very to me credible and very damaging MH to again is Wayne Williams responsible for all of them I would say no 100%
certain I believe he's not uh is he responsible for a couple of them possibly I I don't know at this point
because this becomes so muddy and murky it's like you don't know what to believe
what is up now and what is down and I'm not really for sure Robert Keele he was the author of
The Riverman book he was also a member of the super cop unit that we had talked about earlier he was involved in the Ted
Bundy investigation later on in the um Green River Killer investigation but he was one of the super cops that they
brought in to be involved in the three objectives that we talked about you know were all of these cases linked now he
did have a a big complaint that he didn't care for when they were being presented their information he did say
that there was a lot lacking uh as far as the information that they were provided to determine if all of these
cases were connected they basically received a a bit of a limited timeline with a
victimology uh talking about the deaths of each one of these victims well we talked about the co toxicology report
not being uh submitted to them as well right that was one of the things the super cops had asked about was the
toxicology because they did believe that some of these or all these victims may have been drugged or alcohol used on
them they couldn't prove that without having the toxicology results and furthermore actually Robert keple
believes that maybe that a toxicology wouldn't have even been done on some of these cases furthermore he goes on to
say that in one of the cases the one that I had brought up that I thought was probably not connected but then the
police later say well there's fibers that match some of these other victims uh we had talked about the the victim
that was found uh in a garage with his with his pockets pulled out right um and one thing that Keele had asked in this
situation was well can we see we need to be able to see these fibers we need to have uh the the actual reports on these
fibers because one thing that the super cops had questioned were is there a chance that these fibers are so generic
that anybody could have them in their homes or anybody could have them in their cars and the captain brought up
one in one thing that was really interesting earlier about uh Wayne Williams's parents having multiple
Vehicles whether it be rentals or because they were replacing vehicles or whatnot and we know Wayne Williams drove
a separate vehicle as well um we're seeing all these fibers and they're saying that those are all linked but we
also talking about multiple Vehicles well also what how are they linked I mean like everything with DNA or Fiber
analysis it's always linked to a percentage oh one out of a 100 I mean if you break down what the percentage is if
if it's these fibers are found in 25% of the homes in Atlanta well now you got this huge uh Spectrum um but basically
the other conclusion too is that the you know the vice president at the time uh pushes the prosecution and and and
Atlanta's police force pushes the prosecution saying if you're not going to rush this trial uh with Wayne
Williams we're going to replace you and then then the defense is thrown under the bus because not only are we going to
be tried for these two murders that William Williams then gets found guilty of but we're going to allow information
into all these other deaths so you're talking about thousands and thousands of pieces of evidence on a trial that's
going to be rushed so um because of the spin article it was reopened uh then it was closed and they
put him back in his box now I I think the point of all this is I don't know if this I'm not sitting here saying well it
has to be this Charles T Sanders but if you have this investigation you know it seems like
sometimes uh law enforcement government or whatever it is they're not interested
in the truth you know they're just try they're trying to mop up this bad problem you know but they're mopping it
up with a wet mop right you know you're just pushing the water around and at the
end of the day if he if if Wayne Williams didn't do this then you got an innocent man sitting imprisoned mhm
right so that that's the first flaw but also um the community has a right to know and the parents of the victims and
majority of them now after these articles like this after these other informants come out the parents of the
victim say look we don't buy this Wayne Williams Theory anymore and it's not fair to them for them to not ever know
the truth but the truth of the matter is that most of the time law enforcement government officials the vice president
of United States they don't give a [ __ ] about you and it's not because you're white and it's not because you're black
it's because you're poor mhm so even if this happened to a group of poor white kids it' be the same thing
as a poverty thing and I think uh it's it's a shame that we're not any I don't think we're anywhere
further from solving this thing than they were in 1981 well I mean okay so here's the
thing think about this so too we have Robert Keele who who was pointing out clear clear holes in the investigation
and yet this Police Department this police force flew in all these super cops from different states and different
cities and paid them and put them up in in nice hotels and asked them to stay in
their city for a handful of days and and meanwhile they present them with with Swiss chees likee information yeah or
they put their you know it's like hey uh fight this fight oh by the way we're going to put your hands behind your back
yeah and they're they're like okay well if the super cops are willing to put their stamp on it that 20 23 out of 27
murders are connected then all we got to do is find the guy that does the next murder and if we can link him to more
than one then we probably found our guy right the other interesting thing here too is they presented a completely
different profile than what the public was already working off of the public was working off the profile that it was
a white supremist or it was a group of white supremist right and when when these people were when these super cops
were flown into Atlanta and paid to be there and they offered this very extensive profile that goes against
everything that was already the the original thought well also then they're told that we don't want to release that
profile why did they not want to release that profile did the Atlanta police force know something that they did not
present to the super cops um right yeah yeah you know well that's the thing is you can only present uh your profile of
the evidence that of what you are given now the the apprehensive the plan for apprehension it did lead to Wayne
Williams do I believe that he was involved in some of these deaths yes I do because there are there are some
things you know like the carpet fibers from his home uh I think that those are going to be different than the the
fibers that we talk about from the vehicles well there's it's very flimsy evidence at best but but the the if you
do dive into the the fiber evidence it it is more likely it points into the direction of him but that is on just a
couple of them yeah there well and then one of the victims there was two human hairs found on them and they have tested
those since then and they cannot rule out Wayne Williams on that one particular victim yeah that that one's
weird though because um they actually believed initially when they found that th that those two hairs were of a
Caucasian male but then they found out well actually it's a very small percent that
would also match with an African male right and that very small percentage is like 2% you're you're exactly right it
it would rule out like 97 or 98% of African males males but Wayne Williams falls into that 2% to that very small
percentage and I it's maybe it's a little more than 2% but it's not it's not 5% is it possible though that that
part of the reason that this case was so tough and that why we saw 28 victims or
that that there were two killers working in a similar area um probably killing with two completely different MOS but
this would definitely you would definitely think this would throw the police off and the other thing that
makes it hard to believe that Wayne Williams would have done all this we're talking about 27 or 28 victims super
cops say maybe 23 of them that's a lot of victims in like a 24mon time period That's I mean that's a lot of rap rapid
action I mean you you almost would be doing nothing other than killing and covering up the crimes you know in
certain situations well and I think sometimes knowledge hurts you I think Mo most of the time knowledge helps you I
think in this case it kind of hurts people because they do this thing where they go oh well the killer the killer
must be reading the paper the killer must be following what the cops are doing because now the Killer is throwing
the bodies into the river and there's a possibility if they aren't linked if less of them are linked right maybe
there's only three or four that are the same then you know or or maybe just the ones that were found in the river are
connected MH it necessarily doesn't mean it's the same person and then just in this case with the whole um the clue
clux clan um connection yes you made these threats and maybe uh Charles Sanders carried out
out these threats on one victim that just happened to know three or four of the other victims right but it is very
possible now that's when you just get into this crazy world but no so it's very possible that Wayne Williams is
responsible for two of them and then this Sanders guy is responsible for one or two of them and then there's just
somebody else uh you know all this things come out about the KKK afterwards there were a couple things that did come
out against Wayne Williams after the fact uh one being that a police officer would later say that at one of the crime
scenes Wayne Williams had stopped by uh and offer to photograph the body for the
medical examiner's office that he was a freelance photographer and that he would
do this to help out with the investigation there's it's also suspected that he was that he um may
have signed up to try to help search for one of the victims and then in a third case there was an eyewitness that had
reported seeing Wayne Williams in his vehicle attending uh the funeral of one of the victims yeah that's very odd uh
again I mean I think uh it's weird because if you watch an interview with Wayne Williams he doesn't seem like that
bad of a guy he just seems very uh slick you know he seems like uh yeah he's slippery isn't he yeah well he seems
like you know he's you know he's hot [ __ ] or something but uh this whole case in general is frustrating cuz won uh the
victims they didn't they didn't get to live um a meaningful life they didn't get the opportunity to do something
productive with their life um and the other sad thing is that there's no real answers I mean you have a guy behind
bars but there's no real answers and we we really need to start pushing for the you know truth that's what we should
push you know it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong you know uh you know just
find the truth and while the captain and I might not agree on if Wayne Williams was connected or if he was responsible
or how many of these murders he was responsible for I think one thing we can agree that we uh that one thing we do
agree on is that uh it was irresponsible of law enforcement to close all of those
other cases just because you had a conviction on two of them well what that what the law enforcement did was they
told the parents of those victims and the families of those victims you are nothing more than a number that's the
statement that they made to me and I and I think that's uhu absolutely wrong because white or black it doesn't matter
and and frankly I get tired of people going around and identifying as such I'm a white male or I'm a black male or
female or whatever at the end of the day we are a human race and we should start
acting like it thank you Captain I'm so inspired right now oh right I'm just I'm
I just sometimes these cases just piss me off and and I try to just be light and Airy but God it pisses me off well
you want to hear something else that's going to piss you off my my we have to do a show next week my recommended
reading for this week Captain's going to hate this I'm going to recommend a book
that I recommended before Oh my God just do your job Yep this is one that I recommended way back when probably on
our third or fourth episode but reason why I'm recommending it again is because it is on my very short list of True
Crime books that I keep returning to that that multiple times in my lifetime I've read this thing four times and I
went back to it when we started looking into this case for this week and that is
by the author and detective Robert Keele that we talked about in this case uh and
his book The River Man Ted Bundy and I hunt for the Green River Killer the reason why I keep going back to this
book is because it's it's by an investigator one that was involved in some of the biggest most notorious
crimes in this country uh it involved the Ted Bundy case it involved the Green River case he was also one of the super
cops in this case and it discusses the uh the Michigan the Oakland County Child Murders as well um this is one of my
favorite true crime books of all time you can pick it up by going to our website true Crim garage.com click on
the recommended page and look for the River Band Ted Bundy and I hunt for the Green River Killer and you can get
anything through Amazon so go to True Crime garage.com click on our Amazon Banner you can buy anything and they
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last year has been amazing thanks for telling a friend thanks for the support uh and big exciting things coming up for
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The Atlanta Child Murders ////// 56

TrueCrimeGarage.com

In Atlanta, Georgia over a two year period between the summer of 1979 through the spring of 1981 there was a killer striking with an unheard of frequency. At least 28 African-American children and young adults were killed. This series of murders is sometimes called the Atlanta Child Murders. When it comes to criminal investigations we often hear how "it's not like it is on tv" yet this case was different, very different because it truly was a lot like how you would see a case work out on tv. The Atlanta Murders has all of the necessary attributes of a really good mystery and movie like investigative drama. An unknown person or persons is killing a major cities African-American youth sometimes at the rate of two or three a month and remains undetected despite the police's best efforts. The FBI and BCI units are called in. They even assembled a group of "Super Cops" from all over the country to come to Atlanta and lend their expertise. When the killer is finally caught it turns out to be one of the cities' own, a native. Then years after Wayne Williams is convicted of the murders some would come forward and wonder just how guilty is he and was he in fact responsible for all of the murders?

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Atlanta child murders, focusing on victims, Wayne Williams, and police investigations, highlighting systemic failures and community distrust.

Key points

Atlanta Child Murders. A series of tragic murders gripped Atlanta from 1979 to 1981, leaving many questions unanswered.
Community Task Forces Formed. Citizens began to doubt the police's ability to solve the murders, leading to community action.
Victim Profiles. The victims were predominantly young African American children, raising concerns about safety in the community.
The Super Cops. A task force of elite detectives is formed to tackle the Atlanta child murders.
Victim Patterns. The super cops identify patterns among the victims, linking at least 23 murders to one killer.
The Killer's Awareness. The killer modified his methods to evade police, showing a keen awareness of his surroundings.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

The killer seems to taunt police and read press clippings.

Discussion on the killer's behavior.

7:34WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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