The Ted Murders ////// 64 | Forensic Files

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around grab a chair grab a sixpack of beers and let's talk some true cry this is true crime
garage and this is the case of the Ted [Music] murders [Music] [Music] it was October of
1974 I was a pharmacy student at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City I was at a city park waiting for a bus to
take me back up to campus the bus was late I was getting frustrated and then this tan Volkswagon drove by very slowly
cute driver kind of looked at me as he went past and then he stopped and backed up and leaned over and rolled down the
passenger window and asked me where I was going I told him I was going up to the U and he said me too hop in so I
opened the door and got in the first thing that I noticed was the inside passenger door handle was
missing and he leaned over and pulled the door shut but I wasn't alarmed I figured college kid call car Things fall
off he looked like a college student he was dressed nice had a green pullover sweater on nice
flx light-hearted we just had the normal conversation that strangers would have I
told him my name's Rhonda and I'm a pharmacy student what are you studying he told me his name was Ted and he was a
law student in a just a couple of blocks he turned a way that wasn't the normal route to the university and I asked him
about that and he he was very polite and asked my permission if it would be all right if he took a little detour he told
me he had to run an errand up by the zoo and I told him that would be fine I didn't care I thought I would still be
home faster than if I had waited for the bus and then we went right on pass the zoo and I said hey I thought we were
taking me to the zoo and he said no I said near the zoo that road goes over the hill and drops down into parley's
Canyon which is the main highway back into the city nothing's g off we're just having
fun we get to the bottom of that Canyon we should have turned right to go towards campus and instead he turned
left and started driving up another Canyon and as he's driving he's kind of looking at parking places and side roads
the conversation started to go weird then because he stopped talking to me and I'm still trying to make idle
conversation and and I'm thinking that he's probably looking for a place to pull off in park and wants to make out
and I don't know him and I'm not really a make out person but he's still a cute law student and I don't want to offend
him and I don't want to embarrass myself so I'm thinking of how do I get out of this
situation and then he pulled into a parking place and and parked the car and turned it
off and then he turned into the car seat so he's kind of facing me and he leaned
in really close I thought he was going to kiss me instead he said very quietly do you know what I'm going going to kill
you I'm going to kill you and he put his hands on my throat and started squeezing my first thought was it has to
be some kind of a joke this guy's got a weirdest sense of humor but that was just maybe a fraction of a second
because I realized he was squeezing too tightly he was serious and I was in trouble and there's no door
handle we had a little small battle in the car but I went unconscious I did as much of a fight as
you can put up when you're running out of air I'm going to die thought I was going to die right
there in the car but he had other other [Music] plans [Music] 1974 in the great state of Washington we
have a situation here big-time situation women are being attacked some are disappearing and some are found dead we
have about six or seven women ranging in age from 18 to 22 years old who are attacked now these are not all the same
deal here one woman is attacked in her sleep she's sleeping in a house that she shares with several other roommates
she's attacked in abducted from her bed and this is in the uh University of Washington area there's a 19-year-old
that disappears from The Evergreen State College an 18-year-old that disappears from Central Washington State College
campus one night and April 74 and then there's a 22-year-old uh her name is Kathy Parks she disappears from Oregon
State University and Corvalis Oregon so just to mention a few of them so these these young women are disappearing
appearing from different college campuses and other areas and no one really suspects that these things are
connected right some young adults change gears on a dime and move away so you know some of these people they're not
really missing right away right and maybe there's really not a lot of great explanations for this but they are
disappearing and now there are a few detectives that do think that these cases could be connected or something
bigger is going on something being related but of course no one is going to connect the Kathy Park disappearance
from Oregon State but that is all going to change very quickly here because we're going to talk about a place called
Lake samamish all right the lake samamish is a beautiful state park located 8 miles east of Seattle in King
County it's a big Park it's about five it's 512 Acres uh and it has quite a bit of Waterfront access with boat launches
and of course hiking and picnicking uh and when you look up Lake samamish on Wikipedia The they list three major
events as occurring at lak samamish now the first one they list is a pirates vers Vikings massive water balloon fight
which is held annually sounds like a lot of fun uh and then not a lot of fun for
the other events because the next event they list is wife killer Randy Roth drowned his fourth wife Cynthia at Lake
samamish and then uh this event um so continuing on back to 1974 said lake samamish is a beautiful
state par state park with all of that fresh water and of course it's going to be very busy in the warm months of
Summer with plenty of young adults looking for fun in the sun but July 14th 1974 the state park was extremely busy
they estimate that there were about 40,000 to 50,000 people there that day now part of that was due to several
large businesses holding their company picnic picnics on that Sunday afternoon but most most of that is because of the
great weather it was 90° temperature that day plenty of sunshine so around noon a young man described as about 25
years of age with blondish hair approached a pretty 22-year-old woman the woman's name is Mary osmer uh she
was over in a grassy area this is near one of those company picnics that were going on the stranger said hi and asked
Mary for her help he was wearing blue jeans a white T-shirt and his arm was in a sling he is asking for help with his
sailboat he needs to load it onto his car but of course he's unable to because of his arm right and to get a visual I
mean think about Silence of the Lambs when Buffalo Bill uh was moving that um couch and he asked the lady for help so
so she agrees to go help him he he seems like somebody that seems like a good person and might be in need of help and
they walk over together to his vehicle oh and he has a bum arm right so and he's got a little VW Bug uh but the
problem that here is she immediately notices Mary notices that there's no sailboat and uh he says well the
sailboat well and how many bugs could tow a sailboat well depends on how big the boat it's a small boat that you he
wants to loaded up on top of the vehicle oh okay more like a kayak yeah okay so he says that you know the boat is it's
up at my parents place which is we just got to drive up the hill here and pick it up and she she's a little worried
about this situation had the boat been there she probably would have helped the guy right um but because the boat's not
there she's not very eager to leave the group that she's with and she mentions that she's already running late she
she's supposed to be meeting her parents around uh 12 1220 that day and so she's
already running l for that so she kind of politely backs out of helping the man and the man she says is polite and he
thanks her and apologizes that the boat wasn't right there with the vehicle and he even walks her about halfway back to
that grassy area where they were um this VW Bug's going to become very important
as we will see later um but another of the young adults that was there that day enjoying the beautiful weather was
23-year-old Janice uh she's a thin petite 5ot tall with long straight blond hair MH um she rode
to the lake that day by herself uh and she rode her bike she had a yellow tiger 10-speed bike uh and at the beach she
was she was once she was there you know she gets there gets her things out puts her bike away and she goes down to the
beach area they have plenty of Waterfront as we had mentioned and she's going to throw out her towel and strip
down to the bikini and start sunning you know like everybody else is doing on that 90° day sunbathing right so about
this time a uh stranger now described as wearing white shoes a white t-shirt and
shorts but again his arm is in a sling walks to the beach and he goes up to janot he's probably wearing Jorts he
asks if she would help him load his sailboat but this time he immediately states that the boat is not at the
vehicle it's at his parents house which is up the hill in isqua now the girl says
Janice she says real quick though isn't this how it normally happens though when
somebody asks for a favor like it always turns it always turns into something bigger yeah it's a small favor at first
I just need you to help me get this boat on to my car all you got to do is lift it up and then all of a sudden there's
all these different obstacles but by the way we got to go to my parents house and
then you know it's going to be in the basement so we got to get it out of the basement and Janice is very nice you
know she says well I'm from isqua so no big deal I will help you uh with this boat I understand we're going to have to
take your vehicle and drive up the hill and and find the the this is a hand handsome gent right uh yeah well
actually and that's exactly what Mary oser says the the first woman that was approached that we know of she's she
commented that he was uh she found him to be attractive and that's why he she agreed to help him mhm I guess ugly
people don't get helped according to Mary um sorry sorry about that I nobody helps
me with anything nobody's held a door for me ever you got a nice jib don't worry about it so Janice agrees to help
this young man and um she does State you know I rode my bicycle to the beach so if we're going to take your car
somewhere I'm hoping that I can your you know put the bike in your car or we hav
it wait up I'm sorry I was just thinking about that stupid movie you know 40-year-old vir yeah you got a big trunk
cuz I'm going to put my bike in it sorry it's insensitive now the park is extremely busy that day right right
40,000 maybe small City basically yeah that's there a ton of people there that day and so you can imagine that the
beach is a little crowded and Janice being a very attractive young woman wearing a bikini sitting there
sunbathing of course some people are going going to take notice to this and because the beach is so crowded there
are people sitting and lying rather close to one another so some of the other people on the beach they overhear
this conversation and they're witnessing you know this interaction between these
two strangers and during this interaction several people you know kind of eased dropping notice that they the
two introduce one another and you know she says my name is Janice and the stranger says uh my name is Ted um and
then ask her for the help well about 12:30 so this is very quickly after this strange man approached Mary you know
this is within 15 to 20 minutes after she had denied him the help of the sailboat and now he's already moved on
to the next woman and he's he's receiving help from her seemingly because she's getting up collecting her
belongings she's asked about her bicycle and now about 12:30 Mary osar she sees the man that she spoke to uh who
introduced himself as Ted to Janice right she sees the two of them walking together and Janice has her bicycle with
her right now they go off and we don't we don't know where they go uh to this date we still don't exactly know where
they went but there are a few things that we would later be able to surmise what probably took
place this Ted person took Janice somewhere and in the course of of getting there or once there he Unleashed
a sneak attack on her uh probably using a crowbar to strike her over the head right and then he would tie her up uh
maybe even use handcuffs but he was able to control her in a way that he would be
physically leaving her uh alive whether she's unconscious or or just knocked out
or or or bound right and and held captive somewhere we don't know but we do know that he left her somewhere and
she was alive when this took place now around 3:00 this afternoon so we're just talking about two and a half hours
later Diane Watson is near a concession stand this is one that is closest to an East they have you know multiple
restrooms at this uh Park and this is closest to one of the Eastern restrooms now she notices another young woman this
this is Denise nasland now Denise is at the beach with her boyfriend and another
couple uh Diane also notices a young man in his mid 20s and this young man is staring at her and this is like an
intense stair you know the kind of stare that you you not only notice it but you
can kind of feel it um I I don't get those seconds later the young man is asking Diane if she would help him load
his sailboat onto his car now Diane would later say that the man sounded embarrassed uh probably because
he was you know a man asking a woman for help but he he did also have his arm in
the sling now Diane does decline helping the man at approximately 400 p.m. another young woman is approached by The
Stranger with wearing the arms sling this time he asked Lori Adams if she would help him launch his boat you know
he's changing his what he you know his needs now would you help me launched the boat now she quickly declines well he he
already got the boat now he's bring it back he has to launch it at 4:30 this man approaches
18-year-old she's 5' 4 in tall this Denise nassin uhuh now Denise had an argument with her boyfriend earlier she
was there with her boyfriend and another couple and she's now off sitting by herself this is near that East
concession stand that we spoke of Denise leaves with the young man that approached her this is witnessed by a
Seattle Police Department employee so this is these are all things that we know happened right but but Denise was
there with her boyfriend correct and so they they get in a fight because you know men are stupid and we ruin fun
events well and they're also young people you know young people argue about nothing sometimes yeah and then uh I
don't know anything about arguing about nothing I don't know what you're talking
about um so then she gets in a fight with her boyfriend and then she's left with this uh Ted guy yeah yeah so
earlier this Diane she noticed the guy that approached her and um she sees this other young woman sitting over by that
East concession stand now this is when uh another this is the Seattle Police Department employee notices the young
man going up to Denise and sees the two of them leaving together they're leaving
the area together now Denise is never seen alive again after this situation mhm so what we know now is that these
two women both disappeared both of them about the same age and we know that this
quote unquote Ted person who is walking around introducing himself as Ted asking
for help with his sailboat he's approached multiple women um time and time again and he's received two offers
for help and both of the young ladies that help him they're not going to be seen again the rest of that day or or
ever again live what we can figure out here is this Ted person had taken Janice somewhere and
kept her somewhere alive probably knocked out probably bound and then later he brought Denise to the same
location what took place after this is a little uncertain but we know we will know from later attacks and later things
that we will see in the case of the Ted murders that he probably attacked both of them and terrorized them together and
separately uh this was a person that would would would rape women as he terrorized them
and we have a situation here where we now have two people being held captive and being terrorized together one of
them is going to witness the other one being killed right in front of them right and that in itself is some kind of
form of mental torture I mean that's horrific well and you're talking about a stist of the highest level here um
someone that that extremely enjoys the the panic and the terror uh that he's instilling into others oh yeah and the
control for days and days the people in the community the law enforcement they are looking for these two young women
they they've gone missing they've disappeared now it is not until September of 74 this is you know roughly
less than 2 months later a hunter stumbles upon some human remains this is about a mile from the lake
samamish uh the FBI is called in for these to investigate and the FBI the FBI would spend days and days there I I
believe they spent like nine or 10 days there searching the area and what they end up coming up with in the end is that
they find most of the bones of the two victims this being the two women that young women that were missing um they do
not find Janice's skull uh but they find most of her her remains uh they find women's clothing that is unrelated to
the two victims and they also find some bones of an unknown female victim and of
course they find a crowbar and that's why I had suggested earlier that maybe a crowbar was used in an attack to knock
out the the women or to or to beat the women right but this will all go back to those earlier investigations of the
disappearing women from the different camp college campuses and this is going to lead to something here and it's going
to give the police a break so to speak and it's also going to give the community it's going to open up the eyes
of the people in the community and we'll get into that right after this beer this
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hp.com garage canva presents a true crime of design in the office Maya spots something unusual in the presentation
what's this it was an off-brand font her coworker explains I added the font I thought it was fun it was not Maya Sol
it with canva open up canva one click and the font is on brand easy stay on brand and solve font crimes at canva.com
the home for every [Music] brand welcome back to our studio where we have a special guest with us today
Tuan Sam from Froot Loops tan Sam welcome it's my pleasure to be here oh and um it's Fruit Loops just so you know
uh fruit fruit yeah fruit no it's Fruit Loops the same way you say Studio that's not how we see it fro
Loops find the loopy side break and we're back cheers everybody cheers so we're talking about
the Ted murders and how does this whole lake shamish thing fall into place with what we were talking about earlier well
we have a community where we have different young women being attacked some of of them are disappearing from
campuses around the area and as we said the community doesn't really know that there's something going on here where
there's links to these different cases however the eyes are opened after this attack at Lake samamish on that day
where there's 40 to 50,000 people and two beautiful young women go missing and they're missing for days and days and
weeks and weeks and about two months later their their remains are found by the FBI yeah again a lot of people you
have two pretty ladies that go missing and but we have this odd character that was seen talking to the ladies and
that's what's interesting about this we we we now have a community that knows something is going on and we know that
we have someone that is capable of not only killing people but capable of taking two women at the same place at
the same time and and pulling that off somehow but on top of that we had these detectives that thought that there might
be something going on but they have no leads right Captain they have nothing to go on because in most of these cases
there's either no Witnesses or there's no bodies that are being found and now well until the yeah until the lake um
now we have remains that have been found and on top of that we have witnesses and
we have something for the police to work with we have a lead here now somebody is
going around a young man that appears to be in his mid 20s maybe 25 and they have several descriptions of
him he's going around and he's talking to multiple women these are descriptions that are that are coming forth from
women that were present that day as well as onlookers and other beachgoers and people that were at the park that saw
this person going up to these different women and not only that but you also have women that actually talk to him
talk to this man named Ted they're going to help this man so you're going to get
a better eyewitness account of those events than just some onlooker that saw this guy from 50 ft away and the police
do something very interesting here um they do a call to action to the community and because they realize that
there are so many people at the park that day and they have a couple bits of information they have this one thing
where the guy is using the name Ted well that very well could be a fake name uh you actually I would assume that it
would be a fake name and I believe that they probably did too as well um but there's nothing wrong with fake names
but on top of that they have a vehicle description from Mary osmer who walked over to the vehicle and said no I can't
help you um and she saw the same guy she saw him walking off with Janice a just a
half an hour later yeah and the vehicle is a uh VW Bug but it odd color tan well
it it some people call it a tan and other times it's been referred to as a bronze color um so still odd though I
mean that's not the typical when I think VW Bug I'm thinking red or yell yellow for some reason uh but what the police
do is they're going to reach out to everybody in the community using uh their media sources and they're going to
say you know what we want anybody that took photos that day you know maybe you saw something and you have something to
report but if you didn't see anything and you happen to take a bunch of photos that day bring us all of your photos and
we would like to look through them why because what they're trying to see here is they they know what kind of vehicle
they're looking for and they know roughly where the vehicle was parked so they want to they're going to scour
through all these pictures and they're going to try to see if they can spot the vehicle because they're hoping maybe
they can get a picture of the man standing near the vehicle yeah or the license plate
exactly but the other thing that we're going to have here in the investigation is we are learning about body dumping
and this is the FBI as well and what they learn from this situation is that in slightly less than 2 months time the
bodies that had been dumped there they had not only fully decomposed to that of skeleton remains but the man calling
himself also had one other thing on his side animals had scattered The Remains all over the Hillside and some of this
was pretty good distances as well remember we said it took them over a week to find everything that they they
ended up compiling at the end and that ended up being the remains of two I'm sorry two identified persons one ident
Uniden ified victim as well as the possible murder weapon the Crowbar right not full remains of a third victim but
you know just I think fragments it was you know but then one of the victims was missing the skull which is very odd as
well mhm but I wonder if the cops I wonder if the FBI just assume that because these victims were found in the
wilderness if maybe that animal just went off with it I mean I know that's a little gory and graphic but that was
their they they had actually figured that out um they there were probably markings on some of the bones that would
indicate such activity taking place and they really kind of just surmised that whoever dumped them just left the bodies
there and walked away from them and whatever had happened to the bodies during The Deco decomposition process
was that animals had scattered these pieces uh throughout the hillside the other interesting thing to me is that
the law enforcement FBI or the cops they also you know not only looking through these pictures hoping to get license
plate or a visual of this man um they also were compiling a list of guys named Ted and not just assuming again that if
uh that that this you know perpetrator used Alias well and that's where the investigation took a big spin where
before they were just investigating these r random attacks that were taking place at different college campuses but
the reason that they're able to make a link to this lake samamish is that the the victimology here you have victims
that they look similar they're all of the same age they're College age girls they're young attractive women this
would be this person's victim type and so that's why they end up starting to call this case the Ted murders because
that's the only thing they have to go off of is this person introducing himself as Ted and at the time too we
have to discuss you know we have the FBI and we have persons involved in the FBI
that are used to investigating these type of cases these serial murder cases and one thing they start discussing
amongst themselves is why would this individual if he is linked to these attacks at Lake samamish why would he
jump make the leap from these seemingly very successful murders that he's done where there's no Witnesses where there
may not even be a body found there's no evidence no leads here's someone that seems to be very good at what they're
doing and now all of a sudden he's putting himself and doing this double event which is extremely risky Behavior
yeah like we said uh 40 to 50,000 people and then you're taking two victims you know it's very it's very
like you said risky Behavior to get get in CAU if the other crimes are connected
to this and for decades people would speculate about this and they would wonder you know why make this leap was
this something that this Ted person set out to do that day was he did he wake up
with the plan of going and taking two women uh and putting them together and terrorizing them at the same time or did
he just go to this event and you know you know his um sickness his addiction for murder did it come to the surface
and he just couldn't control himself and one thing that I heard brought up which
is interesting you know a lot of these they say sometimes these serial killers try to one up each other um that there's
like some of them that kind of compete or that they read and study other serial killers and there's things that they
want to mimic or or do better than than what they've seen other k killers do now
Jack the Ripper did a double event uh back in his day and uh there's even been some this is off the subject here but
there's even been some it's weird to call it an event he did a double murder yeah and and in Jack's situation he he
the thought is that he killed one woman on one side of town and then very quickly went to the other side of town
and killed another woman there's been an interesting Theory that's come out within the last year or two that
speculates that Jack the Ripper was actually two people working together that were both linked close to the case
and being in investigated at the time and maybe that they came up with this idea that okay you kill you one half a
Jack Ripper go to this side of town and kill this girl and then you're there at the scene of the crime so you're you're
almost a witness to this event right so you cannot be a suspect in the other killing that took place on the other
side of town that's committed by the other right one half of Jack the Ripper right you know uh this situation though
I don't I don't know that this was the Ted person trying to outdo Jack the Ripper or if this was something that he
read about and fantasized about doing that that's regarded as actually that's the number one theory is that this was
something that he he wanted to up the stakes that this was something that he wanted to do that he always desired to
take two victims at the same time well yeah if you're getting some Sensation from one murder then you know up up the
antie get double The Sensation from a double murder yeah and they they suspect that he always wanted to kill one victim
in front of the other victim um I'm going to go off on my own little thing here I think what what I see out of this
character is I think I see someone that's just outright addicted to the act of capturing the women and terrorizing
them and murdering them and I think it's it's like a drug to this person and I think what happened was he went there
that day with the expectation of abducting one victim and maybe leaving afterwards uh however I think once he
got there and there's so many people there's so many gorgeous young women that are his victim type and I think
that he got there and he he couldn't it's like a kid in the candy store he couldn't pick out just one uh I mean not
only that we see him going up to woman after woman after woman after woman I mean he went up to eight or nine
different ladies that day and he ends up taking two I think he just really wanted
to kill them all you know too many victims and he wanted he there were too many to choose from so he would allow
himself to well un fairness he has to find somebody that's willing to help him mhm and as I said he approached woman
after woman and he allowed himself to who's to say that had he not reached whatever level of gratification that he
was hoping to reach or that high that he was chasing when he went there to the Park that morning who's to say that
after two that if he hadn't reached that high that there wouldn't have been three
or four that same day the King County Police they're finally armed with a detailed description of their suspect as
well as his car they start posting Flyers throughout the Seattle area and a composite sketch was printed in Regional
newspapers and broadcast on local television stations now the tips start coming in and they don't just come in I
mean they are pouring in the police are receiving approximately 200 tips per day
because of the composite sketch as well as the information about the vehicle and
what had taken place at the park that day now amongst sprinkled into those uh sprinkled into those tips are a few that
we have to bring up okay there's one really interesting one first of all it's a uh University of Washington psychology
Professor all right so this tip number one Yep this professor calls in the tip and says you know what have a student at
at the University of Washington and he's kind of an oddball and he's in my class
and he has a VW Bug and he looks like the sketch that I'm seeing on the news and his name is Theodore Bundy and
here's tip number two so sprinkled in with all those other tips we have a lady by the name of Anne Rule now she comes
forward and says the same thing you know I work with this guy at this crisis hotline he's he's my partner which is
weird because he's a very nice guy and we're friends um we're not yeah this is a a crisc crisc Hotline Crisis Hotline
yeah well wow it's too early um no but it's a it's basically like a suicide call-in you know if if you're feeling
like you're going to commit suicide you call in so so it's it's odd that okay one well we know it's Ted we know
there's a guy named Ted so that he has that going against him uh we also but it's he has a bug but could you imagine
if you're working this basically a suicide hotline and you're working with this guy named Ted and you hear about
these horrific murders how how much that would play with your psyche where well why would he
be helping people not die if but just to go murder people well and think about this too from Anne rues perspective when
do you think that most of those crisis phone calls come in they the majority of them are probably coming in in the late
evening nighttime so picture this she is alone with this Ted person this Theodore
Bundy and yeah they actually lock you in they're working side by side Manning the
phones together for all hours of the night and not only that they she said we're we're friends you know we've gone
to lunch together yeah he's a Charming guy yeah she's a little bit older at the time and she she's doing that to just
kind of be a good person and donate her time but the the crisis hotline what they would do is they would pair these
older adults with uh college students that wanted to donate their time as well uh whether they're trying to gain
experience for things I mean we're seeing looks good on the resume this person if he M matches up if he's the
same Theodore Bundy this is somebody that is obviously taking psychology classes at uh Washington University do
we have a third tip the third tip is and I'm I'm going to give a fake name here because this person I I know their real
name and you can if you look on let's use the captain that's a good fake name well well I have a fake name for it uh
but here's my little warning to everybody if you want to you can go out and you can find her real name if that's
that important to you this person would go on later to write a book and she did not use her real name in the book so I
don't think it's fair for me to use her real name here so uh her her fake name is Liz Kendall now Liz Kendall she says
that uh I have a kind of on and off again boyfriend and his name is Ted Bundy and he matches the description as
well as he drives the vehicle that that was said to be at the park that day um and she says she does she she outwardly
says to the detective on the phone I don't suspect that he's the Killer I I don't think he's capable of anything
like that but well there I mean she's having a a sexual intimate relationship with this individual
so one would hope that you know you don't pick the worst Partners in the world like that yeah and what happens is
you know she says she doesn't think it's actually him that he he couldn't kill anybody he's too nice of a guy to do
anything like that but because he looks so much like the drawing and because he has the same or similar V
she felt compelled to call in the tip right he looks like the drawing he has the car and it's the same name
um this is this is the mine um Bender for me could you imagine a guy in the Seattle Washington area
named Ted guy's a little down on his luck right his name is Ted handsome man and he has a tan VW Bug and then
this report comes out but but you're not the killer you don't have anything to do with it you're
just saying supposed story hypothetically how many teds and not even a tan VW VW Bug but just any Ted
with a bug in that area what the heck their brain was going through at the time like people constantly just like oh
there's Ted with his bug just giving you the dirtiest looks and you're just like
this wasn't me it wasn't me so I know what's going on right now okay we have listeners sitting at home they're in
their car they're on the subway they're at work and they're going wait a second we're talking about these murders that
took place at the lake we're talking about murders and disappearances that took place at places at these different
campuses and now we got three people three people that call in and they but we have hundreds and hundreds of tips
but three that are saying specifically Theodore Bundy and of course we can look back 40 years later and go well no [ __ ]
Sherlock uh why didn't you start piecing this together right the problem like the
captain said is we have over 200 tips coming in per day and now Robert Keele who was one of the lead investigators
for the FBI at the time on the Ted murder's case in his defense in their defense years later he writes in his
book The the specifics of what they were dealing with at the time so by the time
of n by June of 1975 here's what they're dealing with this is you know less than
a year after the lake shamish murders okay they're dealing with 3,500 sus 3,500 suspect names gathered
throughout June of 1975 and those are just teds well not entirely those are just suspects that have been called in
whether whether they're a suspect because a detective has put them on the list or because a tipster called it in
and put them on the list or maybe another Police Department said hey we got this suspicious guy his name's not
Ted but 3500 people that's a lot of people to sift through now on top of that here's some other things that
they're looking at in this case they have 5,000 mental patients that were released between the years of 1964 and
1974 we also have 41,000 registered owners of Vault say that again the the mental patients there are 5,000 mental
patients released between the years of 1964 and 1974 so that's a decade's time yeah yeah 5,000 would be a lot if we
said it was 10 months or 12 months but but it's over the course of a DEC or if it's just all one day yeah yeah just
open up the doors all right see you guys later um everybody's better there's 41,000 registered owners of
Volkswagen 41,000 people very popular car back then you also my mother had one you also have 300 Campus vendors at the
University of Washington you have 2,162 guests that stay at a nearby Hotel uh of Lake shamish of that weekend right
so that those are people that came into the area and then left right so again if
we if we uh take away the attacks and the murders that were happening on the college campuses and just look at this
as a you know just a individual isolated event or murder I just use your word um
then if if we just isolate it then this could just be a commuter and where they coming from they they could be coming
from 6 hours away 12 hours away who knows and I think if you're talking about that they only had 200 tips come
in total and one or two of them are of this Theodore Bundy person that matches the description with the with the this
college student basically that they would probably put that together a lot sooner than what they had however we're
talking about as far as tips go a needle and a hay stack mhm okay so well actually like a few needles yeah a h
stack but it's still all pointing to the same guy I guess now there are some officers that do follow up on these uh
Ted uh tips that are coming in the Ted tips um so but what they find and and I will fault them a little bit on this I
won't fault them for the needle and the hay stack but I'll fault them for this they very Loosely look into this
situation they basically look into the background of this Theodore Bundy and they they come up with the idea that
it's very unlik that a cleancut law student with no adult criminal record would be the perpetrator of this
horrible horrible crime I mean we're not talking about stealing something from the local market this is a double murder
with the potential of a third victim uh this is the worst of the worst yeah well I like you said I mean
profiling wise I think they viewed it as somebody that was taking their killings
to the next level and that's one of the reasons why the FBI started to encapsulate the other murders into this
event and so to just think that okay if again if these murders are not connected it's still the first time this
guy commits a crime that you know is a double murder that seems like a far jump I can see see the logic behind that
thought yeah a lot of the the more uh schooled detectives in the the FBI they do think that most these crimes are
linked um not all of them there's not a lot of evidence pointing towards that though and the other thing when we're
talking about numbers and statistics here another thing that they have to deal with is amongst those college
campuses where these women disappeared we're talking about different college campuses right there's over 1500 people
that transferred within that time period out of those schools so you know one could think when when a detective or a
FBI agent is looking for somebody that did something out of character that's absolutely horor
most people the normal behavior is to run as far away from that as possible and so of course they're going to look
at anybody that transferred during those time periods has to be a suspect and has
to find themselves on that suspect list whether it be just for one of the cases or all of them well we have some
connections you know like you were saying the the the more I I it wouldn't be experienced because it could just be
an intellect thing that started seeing that there were connections I mean all female victims all roughly around the
same age uh most had um evidence of binding on the hands M uh strangulation probably in most of the cases well but
again that a lot of these bodies they've not found and oh right right one thing you
one thing you do have on your side that helps you link them is the short time frame this is all taking place in the
year of 1974 yeah yeah I mean that's that's pretty quick um so we talked about you know running as far away a
normal person would run as far away from their bad Deeds as possible uh what we do see here is in August of 1974 this is
just one month after the double event uh Ted Theodore bunny well that's Theodore
Bundy uh he gets accepted to the University of Utah and he moves to Salt Lake City and during this transfer
process for Mr Bundy the the police the King County police and the FBI going through they're experiencing something
new for the first time okay not only do they have a very complicated investigation this is this is what
they're realizing they're realizing that you know what all this paperwork and all
these tips following up on all these tips categorizing them and putting them into some kind of order that makes sense
is a whole another job on itself the paperwork portion in the recordkeeping actually became more cumbersome than the
actual investigation why because guess what if I'm a if I get a good tip well I need to I need to go and look through
the other tips and see if I can match that up with anything well we're getting 200 tips a day how do I sift through
thousands and thousands of tips to see if that if it matches up with anything else yeah and now with today's
technology we could take all those tips and we could put them into computer system and we could have the computer
find those uh you know similarities there uh back in 75 this didn't happen right well what they come up with is
they come up with a pretty intricate uh cataloging system that involves 3x5 index cards and I won't get into the
whole intricacies of this this system that they come up with you don't want to like True Crime dork it out real quick
but but they three hours later and then what they did they come up with a way that it's easier for the detectives and
for the persons receiving the tips to categorize them and to link them together in a much more efficient way
uh one good idea that the FBI comes up with is that we need to come up with our 100 best teds okay so whether your name
is the captain or whether your name is Nick or whether your name is Ted If you fit certain criteria you could end up
being labeled as one of the 100 best teds and we'll we'll start narrowing it down from there and the reason being is
because you've got to conduct this investigation with a certain amount of haste because you you expect at some
point your suspect could flee could end up in prison for something else he could
just go away and make it harder for you to have an investigation to complete your investigation and find him so
they've got to figure out how they can speed this process up which I mean this is all interesting like the the search
for this guy to be on the other side of things normally when we see a documentary um it's based off the you
know how the serial killer grew up and his his uh relationship between him and his mother and stuff like
that to me and then also once we it becomes a Hollywood movie then it like we we glorify these people and we
glamorize them and it's oh they're so great um I I prefer when you know there should be more documentaries on the
actual investigation to find this person because that science and and some of it
it's just by happen stance or luck but but to me that's super fascinating well and what they the reason being too
Captain is that they would use these methods they were like coming up with these methods as they you know as they
were working the case you know they'd go home every night and go well how can we
make this work better how can we make this more efficient and they came up with this whole process well and there's
lives on the line I mean they're they're you know innocent you know you know let's by all counts just assume they're
sweet people and and and females n n thess so I mean so you know these detectives are going that we need to
solve this we need to get closer to solving this or there will be more victims yeah and but some of this
process is still used today when you have a huge investigation this is kind of the birthplace of these type types of
Investigations so the best way to kind of describe this whole situation that they set up their whole tactic here is
think of a giant spreadsheet right and you could have listed on it uh a hundred different guys okay and on this spread
sheet you're going to have different criteria and some of those guys will check a certain number of those boxes
well the more boxes that you check the higher your name is up on this 100 best teds list and their thought was that
they could put three detectives in charge of the 100 best TS and that those three detectives working that list over
the course of one year should either be able to find the suspect M or clear all 100 names so
they've now put themselves on a on a deadline for finding this Ted and the way that you could work yourself up and
be higher on the list is having more checks on those different criteria you know who actually has the name Ted or
was was this person known to use the Alias Ted does this person have a VW Bug do they have access to a VW Bug how
close do they fit the description are they height weight a things of that nature how many tips are coming in with
this person's name was he on the list because of a detective because of the FBI because of a tip that came in all
these different things will factor in to figure out how high and How likely you are to be the actual Ted that they are
seeking while the King County Police Department and the FBI are putting together their list of the 100 be best
teds we have our Ted Bundy that they are actually looking for who is now located
in Salt Lake City now there's another event that's going to take place this is in the late afternoon of November 8th
Ted Bundy approached an 18-year-old telephone operator her name is Carol Donan and this is at one of those malls
this is at the Fashion Place Mall in Murray Utah R Ted identified himself as officer rosand of the Murray Police
Department he told Carol Duran that someone had attempted to break into her vehicle now he's asked her to go with
him back to the police department because he needs to take an official report of the incident and that she
might even be able to identify the person that they believe they have in custody for the attempted Breakin she
agrees to go with him um and to go file this complaint now on this trip she does
point out to uh this officer rosand that he is not going the right direction direction that that he was driving you
know completely wrong direction to the police department uh during this time she is starting to get weary and she's
starting to question who this person that she's act absolutely with well and and it's not clear but I don't think
he's dressed as a police officer no he he's he's a um he's in street clothes correct and she asked to for him to
provide some form of identification she should have done that before she got in the car she said that he and she gets in
the bug right yeah you're off duty police officer driving a a bug okay I think she just thought he might have
been some kind of detective and uh she asked for this identification she says that he does kind of quickly flash a
badge uh and she does say that the badge looked pretty suspect and when she started to get nervous and when she
started to get visibly it was one of those uh star badges that just say Sheriff yeah you can just buy it at the
uh the local General Store there Buck yeah um but she says once she becomes visibly nervous and she is thinking
about getting out of this vehicle he tries to handcuff her he and what What's Happening Now Captain he's attacking her
and during this scuffle that's taking place in the vehicle he slaps a handcuff on her and he's got one wrist handcuffed
right he's trying to get the handc on the other wrist what takes place is he accidentally puts the handcuffs both
cuffs on the same wrist he thinks that he's got her where he wants her well she's able to she's able to continue the
struggle and she later gets out of the out of the vehicle and escapes this person that she was told was a police
officer now you would think having abducted this woman pretending to be a cop and then in a scuffle inside the car
and she escapes and she's even got a bit of evidence with her because she's got the the handcuffs around her wrist now
right so she has something of yours you would think that this this person would then say you know what I've had enough
for one day this didn't go well for me I I have somebody that can identify me we
got into an altercation this is problematic for me especially knowing the history that this
person has however we're talking about somebody that cannot that probably cannot control themselves or their
desires right the urge so Ted Bundy then remembers that he knows that there is a
production going on you know a theater production at a high school now this is only about 19 miles away now who are we
talking about here we're talking about Ted Bundy we're talking about a person that loves to drive really we're no but
we're talking about somebody that loves to drive and loves to troll and loves to
kind of hunt for these victims whether it be a person you know that he's going to use a ruse to obtain or if it's
somebody that he's going to seek out uh but this is somebody that is is always on the prow yeah he's constantly coming
up with these cons and these schemes of how can I find new victims well for whatever reason he had seen either seen
a um he had got a hold of a brochure for one of these high school theater Productions right and this Pops in his
head immediately you know this potential victim just escaped now I need to go find a new victim I I I got to I got to
reach this high this climax that I've been looking for that I set out for so now I need a new victim so I'm going to
drive 19 miles away he drives to the vont high school now this is where the theater production is just letting out
and there's again this is a situation where we have a lot of people at the high school this is a high-risk
situation for this the suspect and when he's there he is going don't have to call him the suspect anymore Ted
right you're right right sorry this suspect like we don't know who he is it's Ted well Ted is later seen he seen
pacing at the rear of the at the parking lot that's behind the theater portion of
the school yeah so he's seen by multiple people being back there now while he's there he's again approaching different
people and he's asking them you know he's telling them that he's a police officer and that he he's still going
with it yeah and that he he's there's things going on with these vehicles and he needs you to come over and identify
this car or he needs you to come over and speak with him at some point we do not know exactly how but outside of the
auditorium he is able to lure Deborah Jean Kent she's only 17 years old she's a student at the V vont high school and
he lures her and he takes her now she's never seen again right and we don't know if there was a con you know
or if if it was just him grabbing her you know physically removing her and we we can surmise that yeah that you're
exactly right one of two things happened he either tricked her or he may have just panicked and just grabbed somebody
and took off now a lot of people would your first thought is well how do you make this jump
immediately from Carol Donan to this 17-year-old girl at the high school that's 19 mil away well the the body of
Debbie of Deborah Kent has never been found MH however what they do find in the parking lot excuse me of the high
school they find a small key well what is that key that key when you put it into the handcuffs that were on Carol
Don wrist it opens up the handcuffs so we know that the same person that took Carol D took this 17-year-old girl yeah
well that's I mean that's some fascinating [ __ ] right there yeah well the thing is what we're seeing here
again Captain is what in my opinion is a guy that's absolutely addicted to this form of behavior addicted to these acts
and these events these terrible events what what are we seeing we're seeing the same thing that we saw at
Lake shamish where he cannot stop himself cannot control himself he's he's already at risk of getting caught
because the potential victim gets away and rather than coming down off of that high he's got to go immediately to where
he knows there's a large group of people and seek out a new victim putting himself bigger risk of getting caught
he's even seen walking and talking to people in the parking lot right less than 30 40 minutes he's already
attacking a new victim and what we're going to see here too Captain is repeated Behavior so what happened when
things started getting hot in the state of Washington well all of a sudden this Ted Bundy had to transfer to Utah to go
to school in Utah he didn't need to transfer to go to Utah he he transferred because there's he's seeing drawings of
himself on the news and in the newspaper people were even calling in and identifying him by name to the police it
got hot there so he fled well he's going to remain in Utah however he's going to
start driving quite a big distance to achieve this high that he's always seeking he's going to drive out to the
state of Colorado and in 1975 he's going to attempt and abduct and attack and kill about five or six
women in the state of Colorado in 1975 now this is all going to come to a head because in 1975 August 16th Ted
Bundy is arrested now I want to go ahead and throw out there everybody's going to
go well we know this story Nick no I don't think that everybody does because this is often reported as something as
little as it was a routine traffic stop and isn't that how you've always heard it reported yeah yeah I've heard it
pretty common reported that way multiple times and this is what I get very upset
about almost like the cops got lucky exactly well that's not what took place that's not what took place at all well
speak the truth my well and here's the other thing that I want to let me just kind of dive into this called True Crime
garage one thing that I get very angry about when we talk about Ted Bundy is there's there's a few things that always
come up you know people say well you know he had a rough childhood well that's actually not the truth you know a
lot of people will say well that his his mother was pretending to be sister we differ on that you got to let me vent
for a little bit the the thought here is that his mother was pretending to be his sister
because she had him out of wedlock at a young age and that's something that you didn't do back then so then his
grandparents become his parents and that they're going to he's going to grow up believing this for all of his childhood
life and that's absolutely not the truth his mother and him moved away from the grandparents home when he was about six
or seven so maybe this took place but if it did it only took place for the very early stage of his life and how did he
know pretty quickly into his life that his mother was not his sister and was in fact his mother was because when they
moved to Washington she got remarried and he was raised by her and his stepfather from a young age and th and
her and his stepfather had four children so they he he had a more quote unquote normal childhood than most would agree
with the other thing too is that there's this thought that his grandfather fathered him with his mother and that is
absolutely there's no truth to that at all that's at best it's just a bad neighborhood rumor that may have come up
I don't know where it came along I I think it probably came along through the well there's some validity to this
because one of Ted Bundy's lawyers heard these claims and their um office then investigated it and he says on record
that he feels like he had enough evidence to prove it but he didn't have the Smoking Gun to say yes for certain
that Ted Bundy's uh grandfather was his father I'm glad you brought that up because I had wondered always wondered
where that rumor or that story originated from and maybe that's the birthplace of it um but but from what
I've everything that I've seen well because afterwards H sight it was like how how did this sicko happen you know
everybody wanted to find these reasons oh was porno you know porno you know his addiction to porno or maybe he was
dropped when he was a baby they were trying to find all these answers and I think that's where it came from well
maybe it's like a birth defect or you know some sort of um incest well yeah Society wants answers you don't believe
nobody wants to believe that a young good-looking somewhat seemingly successful college student uh law
student is going to go on and murder as many women as he possibly can right um but
from everything that I've seen is that his mother had an on again off again relationship uh with this man for for
many years and he fathered Ted Bundy and Ted got his last name from his eventual
stepfather however the his real father didn't want to have kids didn't want to have a didn't want to settle down and
get married and this I don't have the the man's name in front of me but it sounds like this is something that he
did uh more than once uh throughout his lifetime um but but the real reason for my venting here is that I believe things
like that are over sensationalized you know that they they almost Champion the killer when they when you see the
biographies and when you see the documentaries on Ted Bundy both of those things usually come up about his mother
pretending to be his sister and they they kind of gloss over it and give the impression that that took place over the
course of his entire childhood and that's just not the case now the thing that that makes me angry is that when
something good and something positive actually happens in a story like this they don't spend any time on it and this
is what I'm talking about I'm talking about the apprehension of Ted Bundy this took place in the sub in a
suburb of Salt Lake City this is in Granger now this is just good oldfashioned police work and this is the
stuff that should be championed when we're talking about stories like this we have officer Haywood now who is he he's
just a local cop but he's a he's damn good at his job right my hat is off to officer Haywood here because well you
know he might have been a slouch but did this one thing good well I believe that
especially if you're in a smaller town like this that it is very important to your job as a police officer that you
know your town and that you know your Town's people and you know what's going on and in and around your town now he's
sitting there at the end of his shift and he's filling out his police log for the day and his paperwork anything you
know whatever they do at the end of their shift and during the course of this while he's sitting there he sees
this bug this VW pass him more than once and he this is not a vehicle that he recognizes from the town right in the
neighborhood so immediately he's on lert you know when you when you see somebody
come into your town that you don't recognize the vehicle this is good oldfashioned police work and what's
going on in this area is there is a home that is very close by where the the officer is parked and he's filling out
his paperwork now who is this home belong to this belongs to people that he knows that are on vacation they're away
and the home is only being occupied by the two older teenage daughters now he sees this V VW Bug almost you know more
than once almost like like a shark circling its prey where it he he believes that that this vehicle has an
interest in that home right and so now he's he's very curious about this vehicle so using his cop car
he's going to approach the vehicle and attempt to do a routine traffic stop M well the car does not want to pull over
and this turns into a bit of a Chase but it's not like it's not like a super crazy you know like you see on TV cops
Chase right wasn't an OJ Chase but but the the person in the car clearly doesn't want to be pulled over
eventually he's pulled over and during the course of which the officer Haywood Mak several observations the first thing
that he notices is that the the front seat of the VW Bug is not it's not like secured it's not it's not screwed in
which is which is extremely rare that's odd yeah and so he starts to question the driver and he wants to know you know
what's what's your backstory who are you and why are you here and the person driving the vehicle explains that his
name is Ted Bundy and that he's a law student in college and that uh he was just in town and he was he was in town
to see a movie um well what movie were you seeing and he was seeing the Towering Inferno is what Ted Bundy says
well the officer says he knows his town the local theater is not showing that movie so again he's on high alert he's
not believing anything that this guy says and he wants to search the vehicle once he searches the vehicle he finds
what he believes is a burglar kit and inside this kit there's there's more other things here but you he sees panty
hose uh a flashlight a ski mask handcuffs a crowbar an ice pick uh and he also finds quite a bit of gas
receipts and now that he has the car open he's also notic noticed that the door latch handle is missing from the
passenger side door right which is odd as well and this Ted Bundy that he pulled over is dressed all in black
well here's some strange things here he's thinking to himself well a young a young handsome college man who should be
at College trying to pick up a woman instead he's in the middle of this suburb driving around in the middle of
the night dressed all in black this doesn't make sense to me and this is where uh Ted Bundy is picked up and
apprehended and he's arrested on suspicion of burglary and he he would be asked by the officer what are these
items for and he says well you know I I'm a skier so that's why I have a ski mask um right well what's what's the
handcuffs for you know uh well I'm a law student and I use these in class to when
we give our presentations uh so Mr Bunny got has excuse answer for everything uh
but regardless of his answers he finds himself behind bars all right so now we got Ted Bundy and jail and there's so
much more to talk about this so we're going to have to do that in another part yeah I think that covers Us for the Ted
murders portion of this case uh little recommended reading for you today I want to recommend the Bundy murders a
comprehensive history this is by Kevin M solivan uh I really like this book this
book came out just a few years ago but one thing that we're always searching for you know it's like you know it's
kind of like Jack the river there's a hundred books out there right Ted Bundy there's there's so many books out there
and to be honest with you there's only probably a handful maybe 10 that are good that are great books out there this
is definitely so uh the reason why this one's so good is it just came out a few years ago and at first my initial
thought was oh great another Bundy book this this Kevin M Sullivan just wants to
make a name for himself by telling the same old story that's been told 100 times that's not the case there's plenty
of new information in this book so if you've read other Bundy books this is one that you'll want to pick up uh
plenty of new information he does a really good job of taking later confessions and later discuss with Bundy
things that would happen much further down the line and piecing them together with with the things that were missing
from the investigations uh and he he's completing the story if you yeah looking back on it hindsight yeah so that's the
Bundy murders a a comprehensive history by Kevin M Sullivan you can pick that up
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The Ted Murders ////// 64

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1974 Washington State- Young beautiful ladies were disappearing at several college campuses. Some were last seen walking on campus, returning home and one unfortunate woman was snatched in the middle of the night as she slept in her bed. Of course women disappearing is a problem but no one seemed to understand just how big of a problem the Pacific Northwest was experiencing. Well the eyes of the entire community were opened wide in July of 1974 when the abductor of young women struck at the Lake Sammamish State Park. The park was extremely busy that day as temperatures reached ninety degrees and several large companies hosted their company and family picnics. It is estimated between forty and fifty thousand people visited the park for fun in the sun on that warm July Sunday. One of the attendees was not a person at all but merely the devil all dressed up like a young man. Two of the young ladies near the beach were fooled by the devil and lured to their deaths. This week we are hot on the trail of Ted Bundy as we talk about what investigators were calling the Ted Murders

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Ted murders, focusing on Bundy's abductions and capture in 1974-75.

Key points

A True Crime of Design. Maya uncovers an unusual font in a presentation, leading to a Canva solution.
The Ted Murders Begin. A chilling encounter in 1974 where a young woman is approached by Ted.
The Disappearance of Denise. Denise is last seen leaving with a man named Ted, never to be seen again.
Discovery of Remains. A hunter finds human remains near Lake Samamish, leading to an FBI investigation.
The Ted Murders. The investigation links multiple disappearances to a man named Ted, raising alarms in the community.
Eyewitness Accounts. Witnesses provide descriptions of the suspect, leading to a composite sketch.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'm going to kill you.

A chilling moment when Ted reveals his true intentions.

8:57WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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