Johnny Gosch /// Part 1 /// 57 | Forensic Files

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like your G all right Captain that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair cuz the garage door
is closing get your beer let's talk some true [Music] crime this is true crime garage and this
is the case of Johnny [Music] gosh um in 1982 my son was uh delivering his Sunday morning
newspapers and a man approached him asking directions there were witnesses that saw the man heard the man saw the
car the license plate number all of it and Johnny was afraid he told the other kids there's something wrong with
this guy wrong with this guy and so he left the area and started walking towards where he would be doing
his route at that point a second man came out from between a big clump of trees and two
houses followed my son down the street followed my son down the street and around the
corner at which time that car had had left the area went around the whole block came back up right where Johnny
turned well the second man following him stayed back away so Johnny probably didn't even know he was being
followed probably didn't even know he was being [Music] [Applause] followed and then shortly
thereafter somebody jumped out of the Back Seat Johnny was shot with something we don't know if it was a type of stun
gun a taser we don't know what it was but he was shot with something and dropped to the ground and the reason we
know this is there was a young man in his bedroom that was right there on the street that corner he heard some noise
outside and he looked out he saw all this happen and then somebody from the back seat that had jumped out grabbed
Johnny's feet the man that had been foll following on foot grabbed him under his
arms they threw him in the back seat of the car then they ran the stop sign heading left towards the interstate but
they went only a few blocks where they pulled in and there was a van waiting with a motor running and they
transferred Johnny's body to the van and then all the cars left the [Music] city
tonight in the garage we are talking about the child abduction of young Johnny gsh way back from 1982 this is
one of the most famous child abduction cases of all time this took place in Iowa you know it's right up there with
uh some other very famous ones Elizabeth Smart Beverly Potts Steven stainer Adam
Walsh you know ones that we hear about from time to time in the news that keep get cycling back to us yeah I've never
actually heard of this case until um a friend of mine and several listeners were suggesting through Netflix there
was a documentary called uh who took Johnny and uh with the um you know around the same time the Amanda Knox
documentary was kind of blowing up and everybody was checking that out so I kind of went for that one first and then
stumbled upon this uh who took Johnny Johnny gsh was born November 12 1969 his parents' names were John Senior and
noren gosh this was noren's second marriage her her first marriage she was married when she was pretty young she
had two kids with her first husband and a girl and a boy and unfortunately norine's husband was diagnosed with an
uncurable cancer and he passed away a few years later noren meets John gosh and they get married and after a couple
of years they have a baby boy and this is little Johnny gosh Johnny grew up in a very nice neighborhood in West De
Moine Iowa this was normal good people living normal good lives in Middle America America it's a a tale almost as
old as time right Johnny was a working man he had a paper route in his neighborhood delivering the newspaper
Johnny was a paper boy for the De Moine register and Tribune he had his route for about a year or so and in this time
he was able to enjoy some of the fruits of his labor as he saved up his money and purchased a dirt bike this
originally was the whole reason for starting up the newspaper route uh and he got his dirt bike and well there's
not too many jobs that you can get before you know 16 to you know 16 to 18 so this is definitely something that
especially back in the 80s and '90s even they had paper boys uh a job that I did
myself it was a great way to uh get some cash you know so you can buy some things
and the only problem with it is that most of the paper routes you had to do every day mhm yeah Monday through Sunday
and Sunday being the big day you know that's when you know I had a paper route as well and it seemed like you know
Monday and Tuesday you could burn through your paper route real quick you could do it in about 10 15 minutes if
you were on bike uh but the route I had it seemed like every single door uh received the Sunday paper uh where not
as many people received it during the week and I know that uh we have some younger listeners going no well nobody
buys a newspaper well back then uh most people did and most people had it delivered to their house
especially on the weekend yeah and you you probably were doing your paper route in the '90s like me and this is you know
a decade before that Johnny's doing the paper route so there's probably even a bigger load as far as the Sunday papers
go and somehow Johnny was able to save up enough money from his paper route for a dirt bike it would have taken I don't
know what kind of paper route he had but my paper route I would have had to done
it for 30 years to purchase a dirt bike yeah but he had his for about a year he had a purchased the dirt bike and this
is something that he enjoyed riding and he would go riding with his older half brother they' go out in the fields and
go riding um but this leads us up to our story here because on September 5th 1982
this is a Sunday at 5:30 a.m. Joe goshh That's the older half brother that we spoke about was leaving his home he was
heading to his job at the village in this was located in West de Mo mhm before leaving Joe knocked on Johnny's
bedroom door and asked if he was getting up to start his route Johnny replied yes
Joe knowing his little brother was up he decided it was time for him to leave his
house he left on his motorcycle and he went off to work Johnny left the house to deliver papers with his dog Gretchen
this is like a little Deshawn weener dog type type of dog you know those little great dogs not really great for scaring
anybody off but uh great company you know to walk with you on your paper route and since it was Sunday route um
now what Norine claims is that the husband helped Johnny out every day for the 13 months that he had a paper route
now what I'm wondering is one did he only help them help him out on the Sundays so would it be that he helped
them out every Sunday uh you know because my parents would help me out sometimes on Sundays most of the time
during the week since it is a lighter load you would do it by yourself yeah you're exactly right on the Sundays you
would have to make different preparations for your Sundays because like we said everybody seems to get the
paper on Sundays and the paper is about four times the size of of a weekday paper so you have quite a combersome
load to to figure out now uh I I'm a little confused by that too Captain because I've seen a few interviews with
noren where she says that you know every day John Senior went with John help theer but then I've seen other
interviews where he she says you know on the weekends would go with with Johnny um well the way it worked in in my
household was that they would help maybe on the weekend cuz even Saturdays were a
little bit more um but back then it was probably just the same route Monday through Saturday and then on Sunday
bigger when with people just getting the Sunday paper but to break down how this
works you know you have to wake up early this truck comes and delivers your papers into a bundle then you're going
to have to take the papers out of this bundle either either put a rubber band around them or put them in a bag and so
uh when we start talking about The Story You're going to hear about how he had to
go collect the bundle and that's kind of how he starts his route look maybe he maybe Johnny was just thinking you know
my dad's helping me out I'm you know 13 years old now I can I can do this route by myself and just just decided not to
wake him or maybe he called to him and he just didn't wake up and thought nah I'll just do it myself well the
confusing thing here too is back then um some newspapers delivered in the evening
um you know it's very typical to have an evening newspaper back in the early 80s
so I don't know if during the week if it was an evening only paper and then on the weekend there was a Morning Edition
uh it sounds to me like there was you know obviously a Morning Edition on this Sunday so maybe John Senior only woke
woke up to help with the early morning uh papers you know because in the evening time you'd be delivering when
it's still light out but I think you're right Captain I think it's a situation where uh Little Johnny decided that you
know I'm I'm I'm a man now I've got a dirt bikee you know I got I've had this job for over a year I don't need my dad
to come and help me with my paper out I know what I'm doing I got my little dog Gretch in and and on Sundays at least he
took a a red wagon with him this is probably to carry all the help carry all the newspapers behind it him um and so
he he gets his dog he's got his Red Wagon that he would take with him and uh he use the wagon as we said to load up
the papers and pull them beside him and Gretchen would go with him house to house and they would do the paper route
well for whatever reason he did not wake up his father this morning this day Johnny went out alone so Johnny left the
house around 5:45 a.m. and we know this because his neighbor reported having heard Johnny pulling the wagon through
his yard this was a typical shortcut that Johnny would take regularly he knew instead of you know instead of walking
all the way up to the corner you know going on the sidewalk and then just to make a left you could just cut
diagonally through this guy's yard and and shorten your trip a little bit and this was a man named Lawrence hedin who
lived at 101 45th Street he reported to police that he heard Johnny cutting through the yard around 550 a a.
mhm this shortcut would get Johnny to Ashworth Road where he would then go to the corner of Ashworth in 42nd Street
this is where he would collect his papers so apparently the big truck as you said would come by and drop several
large stacks of newspapers and then the carriers uh would all kind of meet at this corner you know whether it be by
plan or or by similar time because you know the the guy the truck usually drops the papers about the same time every day
and you would meet there and you would do just what the captain described you would you would bag them up or you would
put them in a you know wrap them with a rubber band and then you would start your route and some people do this as
they go so you can just toss it into your wagon and as you go you roll them but the nice thing is that they're
dropping off all the packages of the papers uh and and one group so then you're going to have paper boys that see
each other and they they can be a account for each other as well and that brings us to our first eyewitness we
have Mike this is another paper boy he can see Johnny walking and pulling his wagon Johnny is traveling East on
Ashworth walking toward Mike Mike is at the corner of Ashworth in 42nd Street remember this is where the truck drops
the newspapers for the carriers to collect Mike sees a car traveling west on Ashworth opposite direction as Johnny
uh the car stops and backs up to where John Johny is and Mike observes Johnny talking to the driver after they are
done talking Johnny continues East and then the car makes a uturn and turns around on Ashworth now heading East
toward the paper drop location the car stops where the boys are collecting their newspapers and the driver he he's
asking for directions there is an adult near the corner yeah but this is what's weird
anyways cuz you you just stopped and asked Johnny so so what did Johnny say we don't know but we're assuming we can
assume that Johnny didn't give him directions or didn't know the answer to this question therefore that's the why
the guy is doing a U-turn and now he's now in a group of uh boys Collective mhm and there is an adult there his name is
John Rossi uh Johnny asked Mr Rossy to help the man and then the man gets in his car and he takes off it's at this
time that eyewitnesses are going to get their vehicle description and they describe the car as a two-tone blue
twodo Ford Fairmont Johnny is now walking down 42nd Street this is when Mike sees a man it's been reported that
he said a tall man or a large man step out from between some houses and start walking in the same direction as Johnny
but this man's walking you know a ways behind Johnny almost like he's following him yeah like he's the trailer mhm So
This Tall or large man he's actually on the opposite side of the street as Johnny but he's going to cross over the
street and end up on the same side and now following Johnny uh Johnny then passes two other carriers they are on
the opposite side of the street traveling in the other direction the boys exchange hello hell but these two
boys for whatever reason they do not seem to notice the tall or large man on foot following
Johnny Johnny turns down Mart Street uh this is where PJ Smith is in bed uh his house is across the street on markart
from where he believe where everyone believes that Johnny would have last been standing or walking last M PJ Smith
he hears the sound of a car door closing or slamming uh this causes him to you know to lay up in bed and and and he
sees uh what he describes as a silver and black Ford Fairmont vehicle and this is probably right around uh Sunrise I
believe so now this car races off uh ignoring a stop sign and it turns left and Mr Smith can see the unattended
wagon Johnny gosh's wagon sitting by the sidewalk not too long after after that two carriers walk by and they see the
wagon as well but they do not see Johnny gosh anywhere right and then the wagon there's still his dog Gretchen correct
yeah yeah so uh now that is an account there are several different accounts of of what occurred that morning that led
up to The Disappearance of Johnny uh we have multiple eyewitnesses one an adult a few uh of these young boys that are
that are out doing their newspaper routes um and they've told these stories to the police and that's collectively
The best scenario the best uh eyewitness accounts that we could piece together that would sound or form more like a
police report now I do think in all fairness that we should also report noren gosh's version of this same story
now I do want to point out that there are some a lot of similarities but there are also some slight differences um now
one thing that we've been privy to and you can find this on the internet um there are many many interviews out there
with norin gosh and she is happy to tell Johnny's story over and over again that's why we get these different
versions of what took place that morning yeah well the question then becomes is it is it a new version because a lot of
the versions that she is giving she's given versions based off of eyewitness testimony right or or people coming
towards her and saying hey this is what I saw that day and so yeah okay her story in 1982 is going to be different
in 1985 her story in 1987 is going to be different if more more people keep remembering stuff and then obviously
just the way she ends up telling it sometimes youd leave something out you know uh if you're doing so many
interviews I mean the one thing you can say is that this altered this lady's life and she really worked really hard
to try to get Justice or some closure or or anything for her son so that's she she did her job as far as doing a ton of
interviews the problem with that though is there becomes these gray areas I guess that would be the best way to say
it yeah you're very right Johnny's mother noren would be Johnny's loudest and in an unwavering voice uh she would
be willing to keep his case alive forever and for at least as long as she's on this planet right uh noren has
a very similar yet a little bit different version of the abduction and I've tried to piece it together best as
I could given her interviews over the years all right so let's get to that right after this quick beer break this
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cheers yeah so we are going to go through noren's version and as the captain had said that she has given many
interviews throughout the year so this might not be altering versions it may just be updated versions uh but noren's
version is pretty much the same leading up to the point of Where the boys gathered at the papers and I'll recap
that real quick this is Johnny wakes up and he leaves the house without his father takes his little dog in his wagon
he makes the shortcut through the neighbor's yard and we know this from his older half brother mhm and when he
when he's making his way to the point where he's going to collect his newspapers a car stops a vehicle stops
and the driver is seen talking to Johnny now Johnny continues on after talking to
the driver meets up with the other carry carriers and he's collecting his papers
and this is where the story gets a little different in noren's version the the man then pulls up to the corner
where the boys are collecting their newspapers and the man shuts off the car's engine
he opens up the passenger door and he gets out and with slurred speech he is asking about he doesn't actually get out
he just puts his feet down on the pavement so he's not fully standing up he's just kind of got the legs out of
the vehicle right and with slurred speech he is asking about directions to 86th Street uh this is when Johnny turns
to Mike and says I've got my papers loaded in the wagon I'm scared I'm getting out of here I'm going home yeah
there's something creepy he had this uh you know feeling inside I think about this guy that there was some evil doing
going on now before I get some hate mail saying no noren said that uh Johnny said
this uh if you go back and you watch multiple interviews what she says that Johnny says changes a little bit every
time the reason why I believe that that's the situation here Captain she's hearing this secondhand from people that
not they're not adults these are these are young boys that are out very early in the morning doing their newspaper
right and they also don't know that something important is going to happen that day they think that this is just a
regular day right you don't remember everything that somebody says verbatim unless you think it's something
important and so Johnny basically says something to the effect of this guy's kind of creepy right and I'm I'm going
to go about my business or I'm going home yeah he might have said like Captain creepy pants I mean who knows
regardless this is where Johnny continues down he's collected his papers now he's going to continue towards his
paper R yeah because he has a job to do I mean you have kind of a deadline people expect their papers at a certain
time yeah and once uh Johnny starts to head down the street the other boys they start to some of them start to leave as
well this is when Mike he's one of the other paper boys M he sees the man uh getting back into his car or or pulling
his legs into the car and getting back into the driver's seat uh he turns on the engine and he clicks the dome light
three times mhm uh Mike looks down the street to see Johnny heading down the street walking away from Mike and Mike
sees a tall man he says about 6' three yeah uh come out from some bushes and begin walking down the street after
Johnny now let's let's dive into this just a little bit I've often wondered about this and it's been discussed by
many many people if there were two people involved or if there weren't two people there if
it was only the driver in his car or if there was a man on foot and and if the man on foot had anything to do with
Johnny's disappearance at all noren suspects that the clicking of the dome light was some kind of signal to Signal
this man to come out or start walking after Johnny mhm I think that's a reasonable assumption I think it's a
reasonable assumption and and I can go along with that but I'm going to throw it on the 50/50 table because here
here's one thing that I kept thinking about when when reading this account over and over again now remember in
those old cars my my first car was a 1986 Buick so probably not too much newer probably not too much newer than a
than the vehicle that this person was driving he was driving a late 7 early 80s vehicle uhhuh now one thing in the
dome light you know how like the dome light has three modes it's either off on or it's on when the car door is open
yeah and you know how like when you're in in the car and if it's dark you never really know if forward is turning it
from car door to on or to to off right so if you were trying to just simply turn off the dome light so it wouldn't
turn on when your car door opens sometimes you would you would you would flick it on on and then you would flick
it back to car mode and then you would flick it off M and sometimes with these old Vehicles it would cause the light to
go on off on and then off well yeah I'm picking up what you're putting down you see what I'm saying there I part of me
wondered if this guy is alone and if he's not actually signaling another villain that that he's simply just
trying to turn off his car dome light because he's going to go do something bad and he might not want his face scen
or or less chance of there being light on him at this point and maybe it was just him figuring out how to turn the
dome light off and it it wasn't signaling anybody at all well we know that we know that uh Johnny saw him we
know that Mike saw him and then we also know that the adult saw him um John Rossy I believe is his name again now
why is this adult out there the adult the adult is out there because he's helping his kid with his route so the
adult is out there to pick up the papers sometimes you'd have this happen I had my best friend had a paper route I did
my paper out probably 80% of the time without my parents' help my friend on the other hand his parents would collect
the papers help roll him and then wake him up so he's kind of Lucky in that fashion he's one of those privileged
kids with the paper yeah he's privilege but but um but this adult's account is in my eyes makes a lot of sense because
this adult is a lawyer himself yeah and he gives a little he puts in his two cents about the uh the
man that he saw in the car you know the the the boy Mike and some of the other kids had said referenced slurred speech
right uh so your immediate thought is well was this guy drunk you know was he hammered is he intoxicated yeah and uh
Mike Rossy the adult he believed he didn't believe that the guy was intoxicated he actually states that uh
the guy seemed pretty alert almost hyperactive and kind of like ready to ready to go um it didn't seem sleepy at
all but again we have an adult waking up early probably waking up early a bunch of times and then you got a bunch of
early teenager kids waking up this is a lot harder for them to wake up and get their brains processing now one thing
that he did throw in about the description of the guy Mike Rossy he says that the guy John Rossy right oh
sorry John Rossy I'm confusing the boy with with the adult thank you uh but John Rossi says that the suspect or the
person that stopped to ask for directions he also didn't appear like he had just rolled out of bed which which
John Rossy thought was weird at the time uh because most adults you you get up it's very early it's 5 5:45 6:00 in the
morning even though that it's a weekend you know you're going to look you may look like you just rolled out of bed
this guy seemed like he had either been up all night or you been up for some time heck I look like I just rolled out
of bed at 9:00 at night you know that's 247 so 247 that's anyways yes so then what
happens next okay so now Johnny is he's walking down the street and this is at the point where the The Tall Man Who uh
is said to be about 6' three comes walking out from the bushes and he's walking from he's walking behind Johnny
now I've Al also often wondered about this 6' three reference is your only frame of reference for putting a a
height on this guy is it is it in reference to how tall Johnny is because Johnny was a tall kid I mean in my
opinion he was he was only 12 12 years old and yet he's 5' S at the time so I think that I think that a vehicle uh
somebody driving that did not know Johnny that saw him on the side of the road especially when it's dark just at
off a reference by height I would actually think that Johnny would be older personally that's what I would
think that maybe that this guy's actually about instead of 12 or that he's more likely to be about 15 um so I
don't know if they came up with the height of 6'3 as a reference to how much taller he would have been than Johnny uh
he's 6'3 so that's that's roughly what we got 8 inches there so are they saying uh he's about half a foot to a foot
taller than Johnny um anyway that's the height that they come up with now at some point this is where Johnny he's
walking down the street and he goes down down another Street he makes and this is
out of Mike's site uh this is where Johnny Goes to Mar Street and Mike hears a car door slam uhhuh he hears the car
door slam shut and then the same vehicle that the boys had seen earlier yeah the
blue the blue twoone blue for two door yep Mike sees that car speed off turning left and heading toward the interstate
and now this all roughly takes place in about a they say 12 minute time period let's
say 10 to 15 minutes and my firsthand account of being a paper boy I mean Not only was I a paper boy but I was a
honorary paper boy I had a special bag and everything he had a special helmet that he wore yeah that was to schol um
but the thing is is it was odd if you'd see I mean you'd see the the big truck come out drop off the papers as a
carrier for The Columbus Dispatch and that's pretty much it and I I I was by Major roads but you normally like on the
courts that I was delivering papers on you normally would never see a car some mornings you would see nothing at all
you wouldn't even see a a light turn on in a house sometimes yeah I mean it was is kind of strange so the fact I you
know I believe that this this was probably one of the only cars in the vicinity so I do believe this is the
suspect that we're looking at um there are some other things about norin story right so there uh she would
later make reference to uh the fact that she believes that Johnny was shot or struck by something uh that that uh
eyewitness had seen Johnny on the ground and then he's picked up by two men and and placed in the back of of a vehicle
right the blue vehicle we could assume and the vehicle drives off now keep in mind and now this is this account is
coming from an individual that kind of wakes up when they hear a scuffle and kind of looks out the window we have a
strange situation here and I think that the the one eyewitness that we discussed
earlier Mr uh PJ Smith that I think he just because of the lighting at the time and because he's looking out a window he
describes the vehicle that he sees as two-tone but it's a it's a um well not two-tone it's a silver and black car
right where a light blue and dark blue car may appear to be silver and black if it's not under a a street light uh or if
it's sitting in the dark um like I said there the the sunrise has probably not happened yet there's probably not a
bunch of Sun at this point and keep in mind the boys are saying we saw the exact same car of the guy that was
talking to us we saw that exact same car speed off and make a left and head towards the
interstate now yeah then the other the other statement she makes and and I don't know where she's getting this
information from is that then this car speeds off and then meets up with a van a white van and then they basically take
Johnny out of the car and put him into the white van like a cargo van again there's a reason why we call these
creeper Vans yeah you know it's like time and time again oh what was he driving a creeper van but let's keep in
mind here this is what I I try to keep in mind that all of the eyewitnesses from the statements recorded way back in
September of 1982 none of them mention seeing Johnny on the ground none of them mentioned seeing two men throwing his
body into a vehicle and again none of them mentioned seeing a white van or a van of any sort and what we're talking
about when you first arrived in the garage was we were talking about the trailer and I was telling you well first
of all you you knocked on me because it was a little too uh uh stranger things but uh I meant that as a compliment Oh I
thought it was a knock on me uh I was wearing my special helmet so uh but what happened with the first trailer I I wish
I took an original interview from like the mid 80s it was done on like one of those old giant home recorder things but
the audio was so bad I just couldn't use it and so then I found a new test you know basically telling the same story of
how he got abducted and it was was it was off and one of the things that was way different was that he was tased or
shot by something M and again I I don't know how common tasers were at that time
I'm assuming not that popular not as popular as they are today obviously but the the second account and the account
that you will hear in the trailer that's from 2016 you know and that's you know I
can't find a lot of accounts where they talk about this um being shocked or even
put into this cargo van the creeper van part of me wonders if that's a theory um
you know and sometimes these theories manifest into something that that you just start to believe yourself at some
point but I do believe that Johnny might have been difficult to get into a vehicle he was 5' s he was an active
young boy and uh and the other thing too is if his words were exactly any form of
of of the conversations that we have heard uh back at the paper at the paper pickup
right he already had a heightened sense of awareness at this time he's already he he's on his game because he's already
he's either frightened or he's been or he said this guy's a weirdo you know and usually I tell you what man at that time
of day at 6:00 in the morning it's still it's still dark out you encounter a weirdo you're you're on your game you're
yeah I mean it's creepy man it's you know last night I was uh you know talking to my friend pretty late and I
saw a jogger mhm you know and and it kind of freaked me out a little bit it's because you don't expect to see anything
or anybody why are you jogging yeah yeah did did you carry any kind of protection
with you on your paper r i mean I had my helmet yeah your special helmet that you
just just take the brunt of the force being no it varied I mean sometimes I'd walk on the route and and and but most
of the time I was using like my BMX you know my I had a mongoose expert you you had a badass bike very jealous of that
bike I saved up from a paper route you know some people use their money wisely and I bought a mongoose expert and uh
and I'd ride around and like it it would freak you out sometimes the the thing that would scare me the most is when you
go to toss the paper and the front door would open it happened to open at the same time oh God it oh it's the mo I
mean you almost piss yourself right there on the spot I used to do like a little contest with myself I would tie
myself and and I would constantly try to beat like uh if it was Monday I was trying to beat last Monday's time you
were like the CrossFit of the paper boys you know time in your workout but I had
I did have a little weapon because on on rare occasion I would get the dog chasing my bike uhhuh situation and uh I
never had to use it thank God cuz I don't know that I would be able to do it if I had to but uh I had one of those
little souvenir baseball bats you remember those things you get at the baseball game I had Columbus Clippers
ring your bell yeah I I think think I had a either Clipper one or maybe Cincinnati Reds or something but it's
about a about a foot long maybe 14 Ines maybe it was the Indians go tribe you could have cracked somebody in the head
with that let's not talk about the baseball bats on people's heads because after The Walking Dead I mean I'm just
I'm having nightmares man it was pure torture let's get back to the case yes so what ends up happening now Johnny's
gone okay and what happens on these paper routes back then I don't know how they work today like today if my
newspaper doesn't show up and yes I do still get the newspaper on the weekend old school yeah well I like I like the
way it feels in my hand uh so that's what she said when my newspaper doesn't show up I just call the the dispatch's
customer service and I wait 45 minutes before I get to speak to somebody well because of all these situations I mean
starting way back in in 82 with Johnny gosh I mean like we talked about one of the most famous abduction cases in
history it's a paper boy now like I said we were you know I was doing the the papers in the I don't know mid 90s I'm
guessing um but shortly after that it it became non-existent and now they give the routes to adults and they're all car
routes at least in in Columbus yeah so but but what I'm saying is back then you didn't call customer service to report
your paper missing and even when you and I did our paper routes uh most of the time most of the time they would just
call your house or your parents and say uh guess what the captain didn't show up
with the paper today uh I didn't see that kid with his funny helmet he must be in the garage talking to himself yeah
um he's recording it so but back then so Johnny's parents start receiving phone calls that hey our newspaper has not
shown up and so John Senior he just believes that Johnny's running late oh oh my boy's out there for the first time
on his own he's probably running late yeah well cuz at this point you know Big John we'll call him Big John um he wakes
up he's getting calls hey and they're probably not mean calls I mean this is 82 people are a little bit nicer back
then but it's like hey I haven't got my paper yet and so he probably thought oh crap you know little Johnny went out by
himself so now I'm going to go look for him so he goes out on his route and now my route was basically a short Court uh
a little longer court and then a very long court but you know for my parents to come out and find me it maybe 10
minutes at most so yeah so so Johnny come Big John goes out to look out for little John can't find him rushes back
home and immediately he calls the police and he States look there's something must be wrong cuz you know W people to
get their papers but I can't find him anywhere I thought that he found the wagon that he spotted the wagon with the
newspapers and it and that's when he knew that something was wrong that that kind of tipped him off um yeah I don't
don't have that in my notes but that I mean that totally and and you know I watched the documentary which is amazing
documentary I think if anybody gets a chance and if you want to dive into this uh uh case more that's definitely I mean
we're going to cover it more obviously but that's a good place to start um but yeah so but there the not only is the
wagon there but the dog is there and the papers are there yeah yeah and and you're right he goes he goes home
immediately he wakes up Norine or or norine's already up and he tells her call the police Johnny's missing mhm uh
noren calls the police and she says by her account that it was approximately 45 minutes before the police arrive uh to
take a report and back then unfortunately they had a 72-hour waiting period when a when a teenager would
specifically a teenager would go missing I I would imagine hopefully they would have better procedure if it's a
threeyear old or 5year old but but laws were different and because of situations
like these laws have been changed or had to be changed the other thing that uh noren does which is interesting is she
calls the district manager of the paper route because every like route like I I had a guy that I had to uh report to if
something was you know if somebody you know if somebody called my house and they're missing the paper uh they could
also call the dispatch to complain but it would go to my district manager so she ends up calling the district manager
explaining like look we can't find Johnny she gets the numbers of the boys on the different paper routes um they
get a good model of the car you know the the man talking to the boys uh so she starts collecting and this is pretty
quick afterwards I mean we're talking about within an hour or two let's say to be safe she's now collecting eyewitness
accounts because she doesn't have anything to report to the police and she's getting these eyewitness accounts
from the other paper boys right and and like we said it's about 45 minutes from the time that they call the police that
they arrive they take the report from the parents and at some point they are asked well has he ever run away before
right and they almost word it in a way that that sounds like he's probably run away before and he's run away again this
time um and Norine and and John Big John say you know well he's never run away at
all including this time and and fairness to the cops though this is something that you would think that you need to
ask well and this this is one thing that we talked about when we covered the West
Memphis 3 you know there were so many people in the uh uh Paradise Lost documentaries that got angry and upset
with John Mark buers because he seemed to throw out there that oh my son was on this this prescribed drug and he
happened to not take it today right and really what we pointed out there is what
we're going to point out here there are certain questions that the police are trained to ask given certain situations
and in a missing person's case or when a person is being reported as such a police officer is he's he or she is
trained to ask are they on any medications right have they ever run away before so what happens is sometimes
this is very off-putting to the parents and what I think happened here is I think we've seen norin okay she's a take
no prisoners kind of person I really I really as far as her being a crusader for Johnny I Champion her and I and I
like the cut of her jib and I think what has happened here is I think when she was asked has your son ever run away
before I think Norine probably gave the officer the business and this really kind of ticked off the police department
yeah but but she doesn't give like the crazy business I mean you you hear sometimes in interviews get a little
animated but in no way shape or form is is she like um a disrespectful person she seems very respectful from people
and obviously she might be a little hysterical cuz her boy is gone but uh she seems very respectful I just mean
she's a person looking for help and I don't think she believes she was receiving it at that time no [ __ ] right
yeah and and like you had said she goes into action mode on her own and big joh goes into action mode on his own they
they go into parental we are in charge we're going to find our child mode and the other thing here too is after the
police take the report they don't come back for several hours later uh to talk with the the parents again and this is
when noren and Big John are collecting this information they've even started organizing their own searches by this
time because basic basically now what's happening is they're talking to all these paper Boys on their routes they're
talking to the customers of their their child that haven't received their paper the whole community in in in essence is
worried you got the cops in there looking at you saying hey he probably just ran away which makes zero sense
zero sense you're exactly right go ahead okay cuz one think about it this way I mean his little I you know maybe he
wasn't in love with this little um wet red wagon he had right but he was using it as a tool but it's just like my
mongoo expert there's no way in hell I'm leaving that bike behind so but here's what we got we have a wagon we got
papers this kid for 13 months was super responsible with his paper out we don't have any uh accounts that we know of of
neglect or lacad isical attitude towards his business mhm and then we have his dog that's the biggest part of this
you're exactly right if you don't like your dog you're not taking the dog on the paper route you're not just doing
that for the fun of it you're doing it cuz you you know you love your dog and you want hey I'll just take my dog with
me right he was a part of the paper he or she Gretchen she's a part of the paper route um and I think you're
exactly right Captain I think that I understand the 72-hour waiting period back then more kids ran away than than
currently whatever but when you see when you see the circumstance when you see the empty when you see the wagon sitting
there full of papers see the dog left behind that doesn't that doesn't scream runaway well we have two pieces of EV
evidence that really important we have this mysterious man that we have multiple eyewitnesses accounts of seeing
this mysterious man and this m not mysterious car but it's a whatever it's this car we got the the eyewitness
accounts of that and then we have the scene where Johnny left all his stuff by all those accounts there's nothing to me
that points in the direction of runaway no this this screams um a potential dangerous abduction that that he
probably went somewhere unwillingly that and not only is this man seen and spotted twice he spotted twice both
times speaking directly to Johnny gosh well and then he speeds away and just the creep factor I mean so let's let's
go through the description of this uh of this guy so uh the from the eyewitness accounts this is what we were able to
piece together the suspect is 5' n approximately 5'9 175 lbs he had dark eyes dark eyebrows appeared to be in his
early to mid 40s uh black hair which was combed back uh he had a black mustache and it's also reported that he either
had a heavy beard or unshaven appearance uh and he also may have appeared to be be Latin um may have been driving a
two-tone blue car um real dark top and light blue bottom midsize vehicle approximately 1979 to 1981 model uh
clean inside and out no vinyl top plush interior and here's one thing that's very helpful is the Iowa license plate
mhm the other thing that's interesting about that Iowa plate is Norine claims to have had
a partial plate you know partial plate number right um I would love to see that on a website somewhere but that's not
been given in any of the the interviews or the documentaries that I know of do you want to talk about the search party
yeah so like we talked about before I mean um Norine is now calling in Big John is talking to a lot of the the
neighborhood and they basically get together about 20 people or over 20 people mhm uh anywhere from let's say 30
to 50 people right let's just do a bigger range 30 to 50 people show up at this park and they're going to search
they're starting a search party for Johnny well the sheriff shows up right yeah and the sheriff shows up and this
guy is going to play a bigger factor in the story as we go yeah we'll get into him more later but but as far as this is
concerned this is sheriff police chief Orville Clooney shows up to the uh police chief sorry I said uh sherff
police chief um Captain uh police chief douche snazzle is what we'll call him but basically he shows up stands up on a
picnic table and says hey everybody go home this kid is nothing but a damn runaway mhm Now 23 people of this bigger
group show up at the front lawn of the gosh's house and and say and they're standing outside and they said uh oh you
know they're pissed off cuz they're like wait a second we thought you wanted our
help and they said well yeah yeah we did want you we did want your help what the
hell is going on and they they're like well you know police uh Chief Captain duch snazzle told us to go home he's
just a runaway another thing that norne did that I thought was interesting because the FBI at this point A lot of
times now you'll see missing kid the FBI shows up right away so that the FBI never showed up so um noren calls the
FBI to agents came out to the home uh they explained to her hey uh we we know the case we know what's happening but uh
we will not be entering the case and that you need to prove to us that the child is in some sort of danger the
police chief doesn't want our help so again small community here's we have um a police
chief that is now assuming it's a runaway all the evidence points to that doesn't make any goddamn sense right mhm
and and all so not only do we we're going to assume he's a runaway but we don't want the help of the FBI and there
was a police officer that's on the documentary uh and this is a retired officer obviously he's an older
gentleman and I should go ahead before I bash him too much I should commend him for actually coming forward and talking
about the case for what what he could offer um because a lot of people seems like that were involved in the police
department at the time don't want to talk about this case uh so it seems like there was a lot of bad stuff going you
know kind of a trickle down effect and look I mean I'm not you know this police chief um might not be an awful person he
just might have made some mistakes he probably is but go ahead but but sometimes you know people get in a in a
um they get in a position of power and they try to control things and they try to do the things their way and that's
not always in the up and up and the more power they get more they take advantage
of situations or maybe they even get lazy and they don't want to do their job well the the police officer that I'm
talking about the retired officer that was in the documentary uh and this this is as of
like 2015 the documentary came out I don't know when the interview was conducted but I assuming it would have
been 2014 or early 2015 well they they are actually working on that documentary for like four or five years so they were
involved in this documentary for a long time but but regardless this case is over 30 years old so we're talking at
the time of this interview had to have been 25 years or later after the crime and the police retired police officer
says simply we didn't he's explaining why they didn't investigate and and his answer is we didn't have a crime scene
MH now I I just have such a hard time with that because we the the whole damn place is a crime scene you know the from
from the from the minute that Johnny is seen talking to that unknown person in the vehicle when he's off by himself to
the point where he gets to pick up his newspapers to where they find his wagon full of newspapers M that's all a crime
scene yeah yeah I totally agree with that yeah I mean and and and it baffles me where they go well there's there's no
crime scene again Your Wagon is left with your papers and your dog again now if you take away that dog to me MH and
it's just the wagon with some papers I might I might start leaning more to your side of oh there's no crime scene but
you know what boy is going to leave their dog behind I mean give me a break okay so that is the the general
story of the abduction uh you know eyewitness accounts noren's accounts Big John's accounts um and then we have you
know within the next few years there are a few weird and strange happenings that
occur and actually we'll get into those in more detail later because yeah the part two it's a part of the grander
scheme of things uh but there's somebody that we do have to introduce uh before the end of this episode and that is a
man by the name of Paul Basi yeah now this is a guy a young man that comes forward and when I say young man he's
actually a man when he comes forward he's not uh he's not Johnny's age at the time of Johnny's disappearance and what
years do come forward this is 9 years after uh Johnny is abducted okay um Paul bas1 yeah he comes forward and he says
that um well I you know and this is how he's described he's a he's a guy that's sitting in jail right and he's in jail
for um sex offender child molestation charges of his own um now we should phrase that appropriately he apparently
he improperly touched his cousin who and uh so there was something that was going
on there but Basi was 17 at the time that he was he was arrested for this uh so it does seem a little strange that he
would still be in jail for it 9 years later right regardless he gets in contact with his
um lawyer with his attorney and he's telling the attorney about um some strange things of his childhood right
and he was involved in uh in kind of the sex slave business if you will right um
well and this is at this time uh people you know and they talk about this in the
documentary too is a lot of these investigators and stuff didn't even know what the word pedop pedophile was MH and
he tells his attorney all these these stories about this child sex ring and he was at these these parties where people
would have sex with children or children would do things with these adults and some of these adults are are figureheads
of the community some of them are people of Power are politicians and police Chiefs and um now this is this is taking
place in omah Hall Nebraska yeah and remember Johnny goshh was abducted in De Moy Iowa yeah uh so this is across the
the straight the state line there um but the thing that further makes this these allegations even Wilder
right is he says I was involved in the Abduction of Johnny gsh and he says that which like we said again this is
extremely popular case in that area in the Midwest and in our area we're part of the Midwest but the other thing that
makes this really strange is he talks about you know he has a like a personality disorder and maybe has
multiple personalities and he can and almost summons these and you can see it time and time again where he will lay
his head on the table when he's talking and going over these events and then he kind of summons you know altered
Personality yeah and I don't know if I believe any of that [ __ ] but well let's
get into that in a minute let's talk about the abduction again so this is Paul baz's uh involvement according to
Paul he says that uh he was used uh to kind of lure uh Johnny because at the time Paul would have been only a few
years older than Johnny yeah and this might have made it easier to get him in the vehicle or to draw him close if you
needed to do something to him yeah Paul said that not only was his job to lure Johnny uh near the vehicle or to talk to
the other men involved but at some point his job was to hold down Johnny gosh in
the back seat of this vehicle and chloroform him you know that's where you take the the the the the rag or whatever
and you stuff it over the person's face and you hold it there until they they fall asleep um well the the fumes are
what makes them pass out yeah and he says that this was his job in the um in the process now this would go along
somewhat with noren's version uh that we we would hear later of the vehicle of the car pulling up and to the creeper
van to the creeper van and then then the body going from the car to the creeper van mhm and then would assume that it
would be limp at that you know Johnny's body would be limp at that point because
uh you know of the the rag and and and know the fixation right is that what happen well no cuz that that would mean
he would be completely dead yeah yeah so but but he's knocked him out with the fumes the fumes yeah yeah and mobilizes
him so the story seems plausible but it's also very crazy right and where well what's his motive for talking about this
I mean I you know is cuz sometimes there's that you know you tell us some information and we'll let you go early
you know but actually this is implementing you in something way bigger than what you're in jail for in the
beginning yeah and I here's the problem I can't really I can't come up with a motive for
why he would come forward with this because he does not get out of jail early uh for for the crime he committed
um he does end up being involved in a lawsuit in a civil lawsuit right uh now this is for his claims against the uh
Larry King Lawrence E King uh who was involved with the Franklin Credit Union yeah now this is this is a much bigger
story than what we can fit into the end of this episode but but the gist of it is that the the Franklin Credit Union
right they get raided because there's information that comes out that there's all kinds of illegal activity going on
and around the Franklin Credit Union yeah money laundering and money laundering embezzlement there's missing
funds well and then also what happens with uh credit unions or any banks is that normally the larger entities have
Auditors uh one of my good friends Jeff uh which just text me two minutes ago said he listens to the show now which is
pretty cool but he travels the country auditing these different banks so a lot of times in these audit situations they
start finding all these crazy discrepancies so now they're figuring out okay well we got all this money
going to all these places and based off of you know investigation that's you know purely financial and are you and
the up and up in the financial institute it uncovers this holy hell of you know to me it's just almost you know demonic
almost you know as far as what was going on with these higher ups yeah so benasi
and a few others claim that the Frankland Credit Union and Larry King specifically and now let's call him
Lawrence Lawrence King so we don't confuse him with the with the great the great interviewer from CNN that
everybody knows about it's not the same guy Lawrence King yeah so this is Lawrence King Lawrence King very bad
Larry King from CNN very good okay so Lawrence King he is involved in using this organization that's called boy town
and he's also using some other child organizations but but basically boy toown is a place that uh boy Town it
sounds like a boy band you would send it does you would send young young men young boys to this place and they would
have activities for them to do and things like that there's probably summer camps involved this could be for
troubled youths this could be for uh persons that uh maybe they don't have the traditional Family Life at home kind
of like a big brother program or something exactly and it sounds like uh Lawrence King and some of the people
involved in his ring they were using this as a way to uh don't even say it we know what
they were doing bunch of weirdos right right so they're they're having these parties um and they're taking these boys
and these young uh girls and they're taking advantage of them to on trips into places and giving them money and
and in in return they're expecting the worst thing you can think of right and yeah so this so we know that this kid is
involved or at least he's making claims that he was involved in this Scandal which uh this Scandal is pretty broken
wide open it's pretty factual that this Scandal happened mhm uh so it's not just
claims I mean I think the way you made it sound was that these boys are just claiming that this happened there's
there's tons of factual evidence that Pro proves that this happened so there is now some more weight to um Paul's uh
Basi claims MH and what what takes place here too is this is this is when he comes out that I was involved with the
Johnny gosh abduction and he says that the reason for this is that this ring uh this child sex slave ring they liked to
uh abduct clean kids um these weren't were involved and that Johny was one of these
KS and that on occasions they auction these these youths off to these perverted people whether it be people
from the states or from overseas um so basically what Paul's saying is that since he's been to these
parties since he's been taken advantage of before that he's just not you know he's not worth much to um these
individuals and so some of the guys the higher ups guys with a little more money
like we said they put a price tag I'll pay you know 10,000 bucks 5,000 bucks whatever the dollar amount is is for a
new kid um that's never been taken advantage of before now Paul also claims that he can prove that that he was with
Johnny gsh um and he says this because he can there's some identifiers on the young boy right and one is a birth mark
on Johnny's chest in his chest area now this we should point out though you know
that some of the interviews and things that you hear will say that this definitively proves that Paul Basi knew
Johnny goshh that that his story is true but we should point out that that birth
mark was was heavily publicized it was something that everybody that knew anything about the case knew of this
this U birth yeah and it's weird I mean let's just talk about this birth mark for for example because when we end up
talking about the pictures that may or may not be Johnny gsh uh they talk about can you see this birth mark it's kind of
a dis discoloration mhm it's not like this very noticeable it's just kind of a different
coloration it's not like a gorbage off uh very right prominent yeah it's more of just kind of a maybe a little bit of
a darker um tone and in this one area around his shoulder shoulder and chest area he also says that there was a scar
on Johnny's tongue um and noren confirms that he would have had a scar on his tongue yeah cuz he bit through his
tongue when he was younger again now that one wasn't publicized for any knowledge that I have of that exactly as
well as a burn scar on Johnny's leg on one of his legs and Norine confirms that he would have had a burn scar as well
and again this one is not publicized either right um and the the final thing that he says is that Johnny would
stammer his speech would stammer when he was upset or scared um he also describes
he he talks about the abductor uh he names him he says his name was Amelio yeah um and he would go on to say that
Johnny would have been Johnny was purchased by a guy that lived in Colorado right again so what we have
right now is we have Paul's claims uh one I think backed up a little bit about the Lawrence King
Scandal you know there's some credibil credibility there now we got these weird marks the the the birth mark which again
maybe he knew about from the publicity we have the birth mark we got the the scar on his tongue from cutting through
his tongue when Johnny gsh was younger and then we got this burn mark on his leg now um norin is saying okay well he
there's some things that he should not know about and then he talks about this whole scenario so we got two right MH
he's batting you know pretty good right now and he starts talking about this connection about he's bought and he's
they're going to take him to Colorado now again they're kind of thinking well this guy is a little crazy
he's he's summonsing other personalities during interviews yeah you had said earlier
personality uh but but multiple personalities is what he was they thought he may have had yeah
and he would like summons them it's really strange and I don't know how much I buy that or how much attention he was
looking for again the the you know Paul did some bad things himself you know you
know to family members and there's other claims or whatever and now you have this
whole ring that he's possibly involved again I think it's a situation where he was a victim and and now they're making
him victimize people you know there this ring of people so now he starts making these claims about somebody hiring um
you know they want hiring people to capture Johnny so that so he you know uh this this gentleman will be able to be
the first one to take advantage of Johnny and he's making claims in Colorado well when they go out and have
Paul show him where this place was it's this Ranch that was owned by like a prison guard or somebody correct and
this is where it gets really strange for me he talks about behind the back underneath like the porch or something
there's this opening and he said that's where we'd put the kids well not only is
there a opening that this guy talks about this like secret doorway there are these tunnels that are dug underneath
this property and then when you go into these tunnels and you look up into these
floorboards you know underneath this building yeah there are child names you can talk into the mic that's what you
got do I like talking to you yeah you got to talk in the mic so the beautiful people can hear your Nas drone yeah so
we in the we're in the underneath the house there's the these tunnels or holes dug out and they almost look like fox
holes to me you know like what they they say in the in in war you know you're down this
Foxhole but a war Fox and this is where you would I imagine that if if you thought the authorities were coming or
if there was somebody coming to the house that you would place a group of children under there so you could
conceal them and your secret wouldn't be out uh but as you were saying that there's there's names or or initials
yeah child initial again we don't know what it is I mean all we can go based off of is Paul's
claims and that's some crazy [ __ ] to just make up out of nowhere yeah yeah I want to offer my opinion on his claims
so badly but I feel like we got so much more to get into before before we can do
that okay keep going well we should also mention the in 1992 a show that we've talked about a lot on here is the famous
show America's Most Wanted hosted by John Walsh now John Walsh actually knew noren and John gosh uh they had met
through the investigation of of finding Johnny and they along with other parents
were involved uh in the founding of the uh Missing the the foundation for missing and exploited children right uh
which we've the True Crime garage has made our made our little donation and we'll do so again in the future but John
Walsh features this case on his show now by the time that he's able to feature it
92 the reason why they wanted to this is the anniversary of the 10-year anniversary of the Abduction of Johnny
gosh right and they're able to present Paul benasi story during the same episode because he's already come
forward at this time now the strange thing here I mean as if Paul Basi story isn't couldn't get any stranger he he
has all these strange claims and all these strange things that he's saying but then he says and his actions I mean
the actions of summoning you know I'm going to summons a different personality is is kind of bizarre well and the
person alties some of them they have names and ages and and things that they've experienced that other
personalities have not experienced which is wild but anyway uh he's talking about
and not that I don't believe that that is a real thing that people probably do suffer from not saying that I don't
believe that that's real at all I'm just saying it just kind of seems hokey and the documentary and then you
know diving into it more and seeing other interviews with Paul it seems a little hokey when he's doing it if you
have multiple personalities have each one of them go to iTunes and give us a fstar review um but Paul Basi he's
telling his story and he's saying that not only that are there kids that are in this program in this sex slave ring
right uh but some of them they brand them and there's a specific brand and it looks like a like a symbol like an X
with maybe you know some kind of U or anchor type shape underneath the X um and he describes
this but this the thing that I can't get over here Captain is that after after the story comes out on America's Most
Wanted you know you know these kind of shows they they show you a phone number at the end and if you have any
information you can call this number and you will be you can be kept Anonymous and yeah they're hoping to get
information about The Disappearance of Johnny goshh what ends up happening is they get phone calls from kids and young
adults that are saying yeah I was in that program yeah The Branding I was I was trapped these people did terrible
things to me and I have The Branding on my arm or leg right yeah yeah and and here's what's interesting to me so when
we think about Paul again not much motive there's nothing he's not going to get much out of just lying to the
authorities about some uh random kid in a different town going missing has not much to gain mhm other than maybe some
clarity and some some uh weight lifted off of him and maybe he wants to change around his life right so first of all he
talks about the abduction he talks about these characteristics that all seems legit he talks about this stuff with
Lawrence King that all seems to check out he talks about the guy that uh hired the guy ailio ailio ailio to take him to
Colorado they take they take Paul to Colorado and guess what he shows you this underground place where there's
people kids names or initials carved in the walls and now he starts telling you about this branding that sounds even
stranger what is he talking about he said there's this ring and all these kids come forward again another a
factual thing that he he says something and then there's proof to back it up mhm
do I believe Paul bonas's claims I believe some of them and like you said there's he he he States something and
then boom there's there's something that backs up and this happens time and time
again there where we don't have proof to back something up is when he discusses the Abduction of Johnny goshh um there
is a situation where you know the the the police uh from De Mo they go to Omaha Nebraska and they interview um Paul
baz's family his siblings and and they ask him to they want to figure out where his whereabouts were at the time of
Johnny's disappearance now all of his family members say that he was he was there in Nebraska well yeah mainly the
his siblings yeah and there's a couple things we should point out here um it's not a terrible stretch to believe that
somebody could have been in Nebraska and Iowa in the same day that is certainly possible um the other thing is the
police did interview his siblings about 10 years after the fact um so that's pretty hard to remember where somebody
was on a specific day uh 10 years earlier um so that you know you can give Paul the benefit of the doubt there but
where where I have the problem with the Johnny gsh portion of his story yeah is there's nothing that leads anywhere
there's no amelo there's no person to go to and there's no car there's there's nothing he can point to other than the
fact that other than him saying I was in the back of this vehicle and my job was
to chloroform the kid and then we put the kid into a van and there's there's several issues I have with that one it's
been reported by multiple eyewitnesses this is a two-door car this isn't a four-door car that presents some
obstacle with with his story uh the other thing is he you can't lead us to amelo you can't tell us who alelo is is
alelo a code name is it is the it the Guy's real name I mean somebody said he could have been Latin uh said he had
slurred speech maybe he didn't have slurred speech it was just an accent or don't you think the lawyer um John Rossy
would would know that it was some kind of accent you know You' think he would know possibly I yeah I could agree with
that but again what I'm getting at here Captain is there's no he can't lead us to the vehicle he can't lead us to
Amelia yeah but he was also a kid at the time yeah he would have been uh 15 16 years old yeah yeah but that's a
freaking kid and 10 years later I mean you know the difference between the captain when he was 15 and 25 was a huge
difference but what I'm what I'm getting at here and the other thing the other problem I have with some of the Paul
Basi story is that his lawyer says that he spoke and this is when the lawyer finds out about Paul's multiple
personalities right he says you know uh I spoke to this psychiatrist that was leaving um psychologist psychiatrist
whichever one it is um we'll just say both so I'm covered either way too many drinks but uh he speaks to to this
gentleman who's leaving uh the the jail where Paul Basi is telling these stories
and he says to him you know is he telling you all these wild stories and and the the man says yes um however you
know these aren't lies he's he's incapable of lying he's a multiple personality and he rather than lying
he's going to switch to a personality that was there that experienced that situation and he's going to tell you the
story well regardless of how many personalities are housed in one body at a time I can tell
you from personal experience that every day I'm surrounded by multiple personalities and it just so happens
that it's only one per person but I guarantee you if I lined up 10 of those people there's a liar in one of the at
that group yeah I understand that but but the the thing is the reason why he is going into these multiple
personalities is to deal with trauma you know because of the trauma because of this ring that he was involved in and
because he was a victim of Lawrence King and and others that's why he's going into these multiple personalities as a
way as a defense mechanism this is this is what I'm guessing I haven't really read up on it that's what I'm guessing
so one I mean yes he he's victimized people but him himself is uh Paul himself is a victim okay so we need to
treat him as such and and treat him with some uh gentle kindness right for the stuff that was done wrong to him here's
the thing though he he mentions scars that weren't publicized norin believes him that's I I feel strong about that
also there's T time and time again what he is saying that sounds so crazy gets backed up so you're saying
okay five things he says gets backed up but this one he's lying about okay then tell me how how did he know about these
scars well I would like to witness the conversation where those scars are discussed was was he led was was was the
discussion LED in a way that he could could pick up on this here's the thing I do want to point out I firmly believe
that Paul benasi is a victim of some sort I truly believe that something terrible happened to him when he was a
young when he was young and I believe I don't know know much about multiple personalities and I'm not going to
pretend to what I can see on his face and in his demeanor he clearly to me shows signs of of PTSD where where he
has he has suffered some form of trauma and it's probably in the form of sex sexual abuse at the hands of adults and
probably terrorized and I believe that he he is a victim and he he has trauma um I I don't know I just wonder if if
coming up with you asked for a motive on bringing Johnny gosh into this whole discussion by Paul Bazi and I just
wonder is was he telling this story about Lawrence C king or Lawrence E King over and over again and nobody's
believing him was he telling this story about this child sex ring and nobody wanted to hear it and then all of a
sudden I bring up Johnny gosh and oh how the ears have opened oh how the microphones have swarmed to me and now I
have a platform to discuss what's really going on right and I just L you in well
again I mean I think that I I think if you want to know the truth then you have to go to the source of when he's talking
about these scars and how he knows these scars how how he knows this information
about the scars you know because because the thing too is that you when I first heard this I thought well what if I mean
look if this kid is involved and you know he's just kind of used Goods I mean that's what he says like they just
that's his own words you're exactly right they they're not really interested in me because I have already been Tak
advantage of and that wasn't the thrill there's bigger money and taking advantage of these these kids uh you
know for the first time it it's [ __ ] disgusting okay first of all but um what your French is not very good so I pardon
it it's [ __ ] it I mean when you're talking about this this stuff is disgusting you know and this and these
to me are the closest thing that we have uh on this Earth to Demons this is a to
me um you know whether you believe in heaven or hell and God and all that stuff to me this is a satanic action I
mean uh this this that's a demon action uh to to abuse kids like that and uh you
know I I'm not you know a you know proponent for the death penalty but you know I I would like to you know take a
baseball bat to a lot of these guys' heads you know uh but anyways maybe he just got confused they
actually abducted a different kid you know but again the scars and norin saying now again this is
a mother is she just hearing stuff that she wants to hear and making connections
uh where there aren't connections I don't know the other strange thing though to me Captain in this whole
investigation is that the police that and I mean specifically the de Mo Iowa police that were involved in the uh
disappearance of of Johnny gosh um involved in the investigation I don't even know if we
can call it an investigation on their and didn't seem like they were putting much effort into it at the time no for I
mean look a couple hours in they're they're telling the community that this kid a runaway but no freaking evidence
to back that up nine or 10 years later whatever I don't care how long it is they never at any point they go and
interview Paul bonas's siblings and determine by their recol ction that that he could not have been in the area of of
Johnny goshh at the time of The Disappearance however they never speak to Paul benasi right I I can't wrap my
head around that thing man why wouldn't you talk to this guy even if he's completely wrong you know and in a lot
of murder cases and a lot of missing persons cases there will be some wacko that walks off of the street into the
police department says hello my name is bluy blug and I have information about this thing or yeah or I mean or look at
the John B ramsy case I mean you got a guy overseas claiming he did it and when police are doing their job in detectives
are working hard to try to solve a case they might know that a person is batshit
crazy but they will sit down and talk to them anyway why because you never know what they are going to say you never
know something in there could be factual something there could be a clue in there
somewhere something to follow up on and again we just see little to no effort on
the part of the police to look into The Disappearance of a young boy of a 12-year-old dude that's out delivering
newspapers that was a part of his community that had that grew and he grew up in a nice area we're not talking
about you know time and time again we hear about some poor young African-American boy that got handed a
raw deal you know this that's not the case here this is a kid in a nice neighborhood that you expect to get
every break right and they didn't even do they didn't even do it there um for whatever reason well I think some of
that comes into play with this corrup police chief you know and there's a lot more stuff that comes out about him and
we can talk about that in the part two but that becomes like a black eye a little stain on your department and so
maybe it was just you know and and plus I mean you have this uh mother doing her
due diligence you know and and she's put in the time and the effort not only that
but now noren and and Big John or or or working overtime working extra jobs they're paying for a private
investigator and and there was some conflict uh between the police chief and the gosh family about that so I mean
some of it I think is just you know uh people need to take a good slice of Humble Pie you know sometimes and
remember what your damn job is that's Serve and Protect you know that's your job M you know sometimes you just you
know rise above be better like I said last week be be more human you know and that and I just think that they they
dropped the ball multiple times in this case I mean from the get-go you don't tell the community that he's a runaway
assume the worse and then and then go searching and and lift up every Rock do everything you can cuz it's a it's a
freaking child give them a chance okay we have got to cover this in another show because this is just the tip of the
iceberg here there's so much more to talk about there's so many different elements to this case there's some other
weird strange wacky things um some of them true some of them may not be true but there's so much more to discuss
regarding The Disappearance of Johnny gsh the child sex ring uh the gosh family the police department it goes on
and on and on I'm just going to say it in part one and I'll say it again in part two a lot of the stuff that we're
going to bring up we're bringing it up you know as far as knowledge and information and then obviously there's
some entertainment value of all that that that a lot of the stuff that we're bringing up is not necessarily because
we believe in it you know we're just we're going but we're going to present as many things as we can yeah it should
all be reported and did you do your job this week do we have any uh recommended reading I did my job my friend and do
your job this week we are recommending the Franklin cover up this is a story about child abuse Satanism and murder in
Nebraska and this is by John de Camp John de Camp who is that that is the attorney that worked with Paul Bazi and
that interviewed him and he this was his way of getting the story out to the masses so if you want to learn more
about the Franklin coverup the Franklin Credit Union and Lawrence King and all that strange going on there it's the
Franklin coverup child abuse Satanism and murder in Nebraska by John DeCamp you can pick that up by going to our
website true Crim garage.com click on the recommended page and we have our recommended books there and thank you
guys so much much for listening thanks so much for telling a friend the growth of this show has been amazing hopefully
we can get it to you know multiple shows a week pretty soon uh cuz we love you crazy Freaks and actually I think we're
going to do two shows in the garage next week right yeah well I wasn't going to tell them about the Little Hen we'll see
you back here next week for do shows in the garage and until next time be good be kind and don't Litter don't litter on
your JY [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
thought it was an Eco move few worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iic must be a
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prices book a service instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us
so much more than just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today

Johnny Gosch ////// 57

TrueCrimeGarage.com

Etan Patz, Jacob Wetterling, Beverly Potts, Steven Stayner, Adam Walsh and Elizabeth Smart few if any are more famous than the child abduction of Johnny Gosch. It's a typical horror story but this time the boogeyman is real and we don't know his name. Young Johnny lives in a wonderful neighborhood in West Des Moines, Iowa. He comes from a great family. He has a paper route and he saves his money. Recently he purchased the dirt bike he had always wanted. On Sunday, September 5, 1982 Johnny got up early to hit the pavement and deliver the Sunday newspaper just like he did every weekend. He went down to the corner and picked up the papers. He said hi to some of the other boys who were prepping for their morning routes. A vehicle stops and asks Johnny for directions and just like that 12 year old Johnny Gosch is gone! But this story is far from over. Join us in the garage for suds and speculation as we discuss the disappearance of young Johnny Gosch.

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Brief Summary

The episode discusses the 1982 abduction of Johnny Gosh, eyewitness accounts, police response, and Paul Benassi's controversial claims.

Key points

The Case of Johnny Gosh. Explore the chilling details of one of America's most famous child abduction cases.
Johnny's Encounter with Danger. Johnny feels uneasy after speaking to a strange driver, leading to a tense moment.
The Mysterious Tall Man. A tall man is seen following Johnny, raising the stakes of the situation.
Eyewitness Accounts. Conflicting eyewitness accounts emerge about the events surrounding Johnny's disappearance.
Eyewitness Accounts. Multiple eyewitnesses report seeing a mysterious man speaking to Johnny before his disappearance.
The Search for Johnny Gosh. As the community rallies to find Johnny, police dismiss the case as a runaway.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

This is one of the most famous child abduction cases of all time.

Introducing the case of Johnny Gosh.

7:34WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

70/ 100High tension

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