Shaker Heights - Episode 2: The Weird Kid in School | Forensic Files

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[Music] [Music] % welcome to Shaker Heights episode 2 the weird kid in school in the early morning hours of
Friday September 14th 1990 16-year-old Lisa prit was stabbed to death in Shaker Heights in an upper
class suburb on the east side of Cleveland her body was discovered behind a mansion owned by the dford
family the murder occurred the day her boyfriend Dan dford was released from a mental institution no murder weapon was
found at the scene within 24 hours the detectives had interviewed the dford family and come up
with few solid leads in the days after the murder friends of Dan dford met up at the home of classmate Katherine
Schultz to discuss the ongoing mystery following this meeting several of Dan's friends went to the police
station with a startling claim a young man named Kevin young had been overheard stating he wanted to kill Lisa because
he was jealous of Dan dford this podcast presents the case as it unfolded for Shaker Heights police
detectives the interviews you are about to hear are taken from actual police reports and recounted by
actors as the story unfolds ask yourself who do you think killed Lisa puit this is detective Richard melany with
the Shaker Heights Police Department statement in interview by one Jonathan Andrew George
Jonathan I Know Dan from band I've known him since about 8th grade we've been friends since then until now I've known
Lisa since I was in 10th Grade and I've known Kevin since I was in ninth grade Dan and Lisa have been going out for a
couple months now Kevin supposedly has liked Lisa for a long time now most girls blow Kevin off because he seems
kind of weird we were at a rabic at Shaker Square me and Shane McGee we were standing by Shane's car talking with
Kevin and we were talking about Dan dford and Kevin young said something like I'd hate to be Dan because he
doesn't get any play and me and Shane McGee both laughed Kevin was like why are you guys laughing and we were both
like because Dan gets a lot of play from girls and Kevin young said well he's not
getting any from Lisa puit and I said yes he is he's sleeping with her and Kevin just freaked he was like that
[ __ ] that [ __ ] I hate him I'm going to kill him I want her dead and then he stormed off and left me in Shane
McGee later that night I was talking to Kevin young again and he was saying that
women were good for nothing except screwing them and throwing them away and how there's really no point in them me
and Shane McGee we were both like Okay Kevin right we stayed at Arabica a little while longer and talked to some
friends there and then me and Shane both left could you describe Kevin young physically and where he lives if you
know he's about 6 feet tall about 160 170 lb blonde blue-eyed listens to heavy metal Metallica and Anthrax he basically
doesn't like like the world doesn't like black Jews Polish people basically a typical Aryan supremacist type person
he's usually a lot of talk he says things about people but then he's friends with them he talks about people
behind their backs it's very hard for Kevin to get a girlfriend because his views on everything are really strange
he'll be infatuated with a person in ninth grade he was infatuated with a girl named Marissa delinsky and she was
going out with a friend of mine named Brett Hurst and we were in Canada and he was threatening that he would commit
suicide unless Marissa broke up with Brett and went out with him Jeff Patty and Hans Bonner are both band directors
at the high school and they were both there and knew about him threatening this and took his sleeping pills from
him that was basically all I remember about that Kevin does not get along with his parents none of us his friends
understand why his parents are great he's a heavy drinker he drinks by himself he likes to get drunk and wander
off by himself he lives across the street from the high school in a white house with a swimming pool in the
backyard don't know the address or the street did you ever see Kevin young act in a violent manner not sure I like
didn't hang around him a lot the only time he came over was at parties I'd say I don't know do you know if Kevin young
abuses any kind of drugs I don't think so I've never used them with him or seen him use them do you think Kevin young
would be capable of killing someone yes why just basically because of how he does talk and he can become very
aggressive I've never seen him get into a fight like with another guy but because of his basic hate for women
because they spurn him because of the conversations that me and my friends have about him the strange things he
says and does did Kevin young ever talk to you about sex and his views on sex he
always wanted to get laid it rarely happened like the only time was with Jackie hail and that was like it he
hates [ __ ] he he truly hates them anything that's not straight he's like no he doesn't like it I have actually
seen him get aggressive he once wanted to beat up a guy who was bisexual but he couldn't find him did he ever State he
wanted to have sex with Lisa puit not that I can remember do you know a male by the name of Ken Workman yes is he a
friend of Kevin Young's yes I think so whenever I go up to Arabica me and Kevin would go outside
to see who was out there and if Tex was out there he would always go over there and say hey hi how you doing what's
going on is Tex a nickname for Ken Workman yes did you discuss with anyone who you thought could be capable of
killing Lisa puit when you heard of her murder yes Kevin young and Dan's father why Dan's father Dan and Dan's
father don't get along at all Dan's father through Dan's friends is known as a very crazy man this is also viewed by
his sister sister Debbie and most of her friends Dan just got out of Cleveland Clinic and the reason that he came down
to us is that one night he was reading a book and Dan's father came in and caught
him reading it and flipped and that was the day before he got sent to the clinic
why would you think that Dan's father would be capable of killing Lisa puit it was as soon as I heard she was dead I
was thinking of who would have done it and I thought Dan wouldn't have done it but Dan's father would have done it but
I Ruled that out last night when I found out that Dan's father sent him outside to find out who was screaming how did
you hear about Dan's father sending Dan outside through Shane McGee then I called Dan's house and his sister told
me the same thing I asked people who knew Dan and why he wasn't sent away and they basically said the same
thing to your knowledge did danford's Father have anything against Lisa puit not as far as I know when did these
threats against Dan dford and Lisa puit take place June of 1990 do you know if Kevin young would
carry any type of weapon I think he had a knife a knife that's it did you ever see him with a knife once or twice yeah
I'd come downstairs and he'd have it out and say look at this and I'd say oh yeah
whatever I think it was a switchblade or a lock knife I guess it was standard black or brown I can't remember is there
anything else that you wish to add to the statement there was a person he talked to uh Pete mannon I think he's 7
or 18 he's a senior at Shaker Pete was the only one who could really stand Kevin they talked a lot and Pete tried
to get Kevin a girlfriend tried to make him not so much a loser tried to get him
to go out this interview with Jonathan George was important to detectives because
George's statement implicates three men as possible suspects for the murder of Lisa
puit while taking the attention of his friend Dan there was another young man who knew
Lisa would be sneaking over to visit Dan late the night that she was killed his name was Ken Workman known simply as Tex
to friends police asked Dan dford a few questions about him that day so on Thursday September 13th 1990
I'll start off with the with the phone calls I had Becca Boatright called once at about 8:30 and I invited her over and
then she told me she was tired and was going to go to sleep so during the conversation she also spoke to a text
Workman and one or both of us maybe mentioned that Lisa might be coming over I also spoke to Chris Jones and invited
him over and he called back and told me he was too tired and was going to go to sleep I don't remember the times on
either one of those calls but both were right before 10 p.m. a Tex Workman came over it was
sometime before 900 p.m. and he and I were sitting outside when Lisa puit came over at about 900 p.m. and left 5 or 10
minutes later while they were both there Tex and I joked about cutting Lisa Pit's
hair to my knowledge however there was no physical contact between Tex and Lisa then I walked Lisa to her car she left
and I went back to Tex Workman I think he was in need of cigarettes I gave him some money and at approximately 10 p.m.
he left on my bicycle for Shaker Square I went inside and came out again probably 11:00 p.m. to find Tex waiting
with a pack of cigarettes and he told me that he wasn't going to sleep over I let
him keep the change for Rapid fair and and gave him some of the cigarettes and I then went inside and watch the
news did you see Tech workmen leave your residence after you gave them the cigarettes and if so which direction did
he go I I saw him turned to exit the backyard via the driveway uh to the best of your knowledge describe what he was
wearing he was wearing either a white pair of tennis shoes or a pair of airw walk Viper High Toops I'm not certain
what else he was wearing have you ever known Ken Workman to take the bus back to his house no but
he definitely he's definitely taken the rapid to my knowledge anyway did you have contact whatsoever with Ken Workman
from the time you were brought to Shaker Heights Police station at approximately
3:00 a.m. on September 14th 1990 until noon on that same date no approximately how far does Ken Workman live from
Shaker Square between one and three blocks but I I can't say for certain uh to your
knowledge what is the relationship between Ken Workman and and Kevin young such as are they close friends or not no
they're they're not close friends but I don't believe they've ever been like hostile towards each other or anything
like that when Ken Workman returned from Shaker Square to give you the cigarettes
were your parents aware that you had returned to your house or did you mention it to them at any
time no they to my knowledge anyway they didn't know and I didn't mention it to them is there anything else that you
wish to ask to this statement well yeah I I I guess I just like to reassure you that I'll I'll tell
you any new information when I remember it but I just really have nothing else to say
[Music] now more friends of Dan dford arrived at the Shaker Heights Police station to
give statements similar to Jonathan georgees that they had overheard Kevin young say he wanted to murder Lisa prit
the police learned that Kevin was due to leave town that Sunday to begin classes
at Ohio State University armed with the statements from multiple teenagers the detective secured a search warrant for
the young family home affidavit for search warrant of young residents Kevin young son of Jay Tober
young Jr does reside on Anway Road Shaker Heights Ohio this warrant states that Kevin young
knew Lisa puit and her boyfriend Daniel driver that in June of 1990 at arabica coffee house at Shaker Square Cleveland
Ohio Kevin young stated in the presence of several Shaker Heights High School students that he desired to kill Lisa pu
and Dan dford that Kevin young was seen at araba Coffee House Cleveland Ohio on the
evening of September member 13th 1990 and learned from Kenny James Workman that Daniel driver was home from medical
treatment that at the time and in the presence of witnesses Kevin young became emotionally distraught crying
uncontrollably and appeared angry intermittently that Kevin young was observed walking in the Shaker Heights
area toward South Woodland Road at approximately 11:00 p.m. that evening that on September 14th 1990 Kevin young
argued with friends about the homicide indicating facts known at this time only to investigative authorities including
preliminary findings from the kyoga County coroner's office that the victim was not raped and further that Kevin
young through reliable information is said to be an unstable individual inordinately jealous of male female
relationships and is known to carry a switchblade or lock knife it is necessary to conduct this search in the
night because this request is made at 11:45 p.m. on September 15th 1990 and that Kevin young is known to be leaving
for Ohio State University on September 16th 1990 and that evidence sought is subject to destruction if not retrieved
at [Music] once while Detectives searched the young family home Kevin young was formally
interviewed by police detectives this interview occurred after midnight that Saturday
night I knew Dan and Lisa from band earlier this year and I got to be friends with Dan's sister later on in
March I got to be friends with Dan that's about the time I got to be friends with Lisa I got to know her I I
wasn't really good friends with her that's how I know them Thursday morning I don't remember much I remember hanging
out at Arabica until about 4:00 p.m. it might have been later than that time really meant nothing to me at the time I
went back around 7:00 p.m. or 8 p.m. I waited until Tex got off work we sat there for a few minutes the two of us
went to the shack he mentioned a potential robot usen party at the dford house I'm almost positive that he
mentioned that Lisa and Chris Jones were going over to the driver's house at4 to
11:00 p.m. we paid our checks left the shack and headed our separate ways I went home I got there a few minutes
after 11:00 I tried to go to bed at around4 to 12 and did not sleep well that night now we're at Friday at 8:30
in the morning my mom woke me up and told me that text was at the door and wanted to talk to me my mom already knew
what happened to Lisa text told me that Lisa had been murdered and raped that night He also mentioned stab wounds I
met up with Tex again slightly before noon at Arabica it was there that he got hysterical he was worried about people
thinking that he did it because he'd left his knife at the dford house also when Tex mentioned the murders he told
me that Lisa was found in the backyard of the dford house Friday around noon Tex and I left for Arabica and headed
for the shack it was there that he was accusing Dan dford of Lisa's murder he was threatening to kill Dan if he found
out that Dan killed Lisa he also asked me to mention to the police if I was questioned where I was with him Thursday
night I told him I would tell the police we left the shack at4 to 11: as happened
he also told me he was worried because he had no alibi he said he left the dri's house at 11:15 p.m. that evening
he told me that the bus ran an hour late or it took an hour caught a bus at 12:15
a.m. and arrived home at 12:30 a.m. Friday afternoon before Debbie got in town text was a wreck he was smoking
like a fiend very scared and like I said accusing Dan dord Deb got in around 1:15
p.m. in the afternoon having caught the rapid going eastbound on the Green Road line for a while she was convinced as
well that her brother had killed his girlfriend Lisa she had also heard rumors that Lisa had been raped prior to
being murdered and thought that her brother Seaman was in Lisa I don't know what else to say after the 5:00 news
came on it was pretty obvious to everyone that Dan had not done it I ran into text again at Arabica briefly I was
on my way to Coventry so I only stayed a little while he was then blaming a stranger that none of us know that was I
think the last time I saw him Friday he mentioned that he had been called in for
questioning at least once as for today I spent just about all day with Ken mitsumoto and had very little contact
with Tex I did see him tonight at the shack with Debbie and a lady named Becky I think her last name is Meyers Tex
mentioned that he'd been called in four times now that brings us to when I was called in for questioning I'm really
worried that teex did this I I hope it's not true but if he did this for me because of a crush I had on Lisa back
around the time of the Germany trip this will be on my conscience forever I have
nothing more to say before giving this statement were you advised of your constitutional
rights and did you fully understand them I was so vised and I understood them are
you at the present time under the influence of any alcohol or drugs I am not the male you relate to as Tex what
is his full name his name is Ken Workman you state that when your mother woke you
up on Friday morning September 14th 1990 at 8:30 a.m. that she had already heard
about the death of Lisa puit how did she know this a friend had called called her
I don't remember who but I could ask her so that I understand you correctly Ken Workman advised you on the morning of
September 14th 1990 to make sure you told the police that you were with him until 10:45 p.m. the previous evening is
that correct that's true did Ken Workman ask you to tell the police any other information relative to him he did not
you stated when you saw Ken Workman at araba at about noon on September 14th 1990 that he was hysterical could you
explain what you mean he was worried that people would think he killed Lisa he mentioned a knife of his that he
thought was in the df's house he was also saying that he was convinced that Dan dford killed Lisa when we went to
the shack at about noon probably earlier he was smoking a lot of cigarettes chain
smoking after a while we both kind of burst into tears Tex told me I was the best friend he had ever had have you
ever known Ken Workman to carry a knife I cannot say for sure but I'm almost positive that he has carried a knife on
occasion when you met Ken Workman at araba later on later on in the evening of Thursday September 13th 1990 Did You
observe him to be riding a bicycle I did not see him with or riding a bicycle that night to the best of my
recollection on the same evening September 13th 1990 you stated he left Arabica and went to the shack with Ken
Workman did he have a bike with him then I did not see a bike so that I understand you correctly when you walked
from Arabica to the shack Ken Workman also walked he walked with me from Arabica to The Shack on September 13th
1990 when you left the shack and walked home which route did you follow Shaker Boulevard to Van Aken north of Arabica
from Van Akin I I took a left at the traffic intersection onto drexmore from drexmore I took Woodbury I took Woodbury
to Anway Road where Anway school is and then I went around the school oval to there did you ever have sexual
intercourse with Lisa puit I did not to your knowledge do you know anyone who did Dan told me that he did I'm
pretty sure that Dan was her first that's the way he described it to me did Dan dford or anyone else invite you or
ask you to come over to the dford house in the late evening hours of September 13th
1990 nobody invited me did Ken Workman tell you what time he got home after he left the driver's house he said 12:30
a.m. how did he say he got home he said he took the bus he also said it didn't come for an hour did he tell you where
he caught the bus and where where it let him off he did not is there anything you
wish to add to your statement feel like crap and I really need some sleep nothing of value was found during
the search of the young family home they had no confession no murder weapon no bloody clothes and Kevin's father
alibied him they were playing video games at the time Lisa was murdered [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Music] 2023 next the detectiv sat down with texts to see what he had to say about
Kevin young I went home and called Dan and asked him if it would be all right if I
came over he told me to come on over I got some money from my mom and I waited for the rapid and went and got off
Shaker Boulevard and Lee and went to dance house and just talked it was about 15 minutes until his parents came home
they had been shopping I think and I remember I had to helped them carrying groceries they asked me how I was doing
cuz I hadn't seen them in a long time I think Dan was on the phone so I went out
in the back and smoked a cigarette then he came out we was just talking about some dude at the hospital he was at who
was weird then he got a telephone call again and I just sat back outside and he went in to get it then he came back out
and Lisa puit came over and she said I could stay for 15 minutes cuz her dad was waiting for her in the car so Dan
was showing her his haircut and uh asked her if she wanted hers cut and was playing around and then he went around
the corner I don't know what they did Dan came back around and she left I guess we just sat there and he played
his guitar and then he said that his parents were expecting me to leave around 10 p.m. but I could stay if I
wanted to without his parents knowing so he told me to take the bike and go get him a pack of cigarettes so I took his
bike and went up to the gas station at Shaker Square which is right behind arcca then I went over to Rebecca and
sat down there I was talking to Kevin young and Stan rer he just got off work and came over and sat down and Kevin was
all messed up then he was crying about some kid named Manny or something like that because he went over to Iraq he
just kept crying and saying wish Manny was here I wish Manny was here Stan called his dad to come get him maybe
like five or 10 minutes later his dad came to pick him up then Kevin was crying he just kept crying saying
something about Manny and I told him to shut up then we left and I went up Shaker Boulevard and he went the other
way I think it was down south woodland or something right before I got to Dan house I stopped at like a little field
thing and I used the bathroom in the field then I got back on Dan's Bike and went to his house then I got there and I
gave him his cigarettes and he said Chris Jones was coming over and Lisa puit and they were coming over at like
12:30 a.m. and he asked me if I wanted to stay and talk to them I told him no I was just going to go home I gave him his
bikee and he put it in the garage and he went back in and I left I went to the rapid stop and just sat there until it
was around 12: midnight and I called my mom and asked her to call the rapid and see what time they were supposed to come
and then I gave her the phone number to call me back at the pay phone and after I got off the phone with her I sat down
by the rapid tracks and then the rapid came I don't remember how long it was then I got on and the rapid driver said
something like like it was running late and he was sorry I didn't say nothing to
him until I got to Shaker Square I just told him to take it easy and then I went
home and I got home and told my mom that I wasn't staying at Dan's because I didn't feel right about it called Deb
dford at college and we talked about how we missed each other I got off the phone
with her and went to sleep the next day I had to get up early cuz I uh had to go
to school and get my work permit so I got to school I went to Mr V's office and some lady told me he was with some
girl who got murdered parents or something it was the lady who was the secretary for the office she told me
that and I told her I was just going to go to one of my friends houses until he came back and she said go ahead I went
to Dan dordz I seen all the police and I thought maybe he commit suicide or something so I started up the driveway
but halfway up the drive these two policemen stopped and asked me what I was doing and I said I had come to see
Dan and they told me he wasn't home I asked them what was going on and they told me to go watch watch the news the
one policeman asked me my name and where I went to school and what I was doing out of school so then I went back to
school and went to Mr anand's office and asked him if he knew what was going on and then he said a girl was murdered
over there and I asked him the name of who was killed and he didn't say anything I left his office and I started
back to V's office and I asked this girl who was killed and she said Lisa pu it and I
went to Mr V's office and asked Michelle vaton who died and she said Lisa Pro it and
she was crying and I went in and got my work permit from Mr vlah and then I went to
Kevin Young's house to tell him his mom answered the door and she wouldn't let me in cuz she didn't know who I was I
told her it was really important she asked me if it had anything to do with Lisa's death and I told her yeah and
asked her if she told Kevin and she said no I asked her if she wanted me to tell
him and she said yeah she went up and woke Kevin up and and then me and him went downstairs to the pool table I told
him that Lisa had been killed and he was like all right and he said he'd meet at ARCA at
around 4 p.m. and then I went to see if Jeremy Webster was at school so I could talk to
him he wasn't outside the school or anything and then I started walking back and I seen Clark Pope and some other guy
and Clark was going crazy because of Lisa I got sick of hearing him so I walked home I think I went in arcca to
see if anybody was there and there was nobody in there so I left then I went home then I called the police station to
see if Dan was here or if any of his parents were here and somebody let Dan's dad on the phone and I told him Deb was
coming back then officer molan told me to come down and make a statement and I asked him if I could come in around 4M
because I was waiting for Deb to come in I got off the phone with him and I went
to the rapid and just sat there and Kevin came over he got to arcca a lot sooner than 4M then we was sitting there
for a while and we got some coffee at the shack and then we seen Jerry Eisenberg and Ken mitsumoto get off one
of the Rapids so we went outside and Kevin talked to them and I walked away Kevin came back and said they were going
to a bank or something then we walked over to ARCA and I think it was Dave bran again I talked to and he asked me
how I was doing and I said all right and then he asked me something else but I can't remember what it was I left and
went back to the rapid stop and waited for Deb and she finally got off then we went back to my house and then I told
Deb I had to go to the police station and my mom wanted to come with me but I wouldn't let her we both left my house
and went to ARCA and then we got a ride from some guy named Bob to the police station I got to the police station and
that's it before giving this statement you are advised of your constitutional rights did you fully understand them yes
are you presently under the influence of any alcohol or drugs no was your mother
aware that you were planning on spending the night at danford's house yes when did you tell your mother that you're
planning on staying at danford's house when I called Danny he said something about it and I said I wasn't sure do you
know what time these Arrangements were made I don't know it was when I called Dan at his house to see when I could
come over have you stayed at the driver's house before when Debbie was not home not when Deb wasn't home can
you estimate how many nights you stayed at the df's house when Debbie was home a lot the last month before she
went to college I stayed there almost every night were Debbie dford parents aware you were staying there no you
stated that you took Dan's Bike and rode it to to Shaker Square to buy cigarettes
for Dan dford in yourself on Thursday September 13th 1990 at approximately 10 p.m. is that correct yes describe the
bicycle that you rode to Shaker Square it was a blue mountain bike is that a men's or ladies bike it was a men's bike
what brand of cigarettes did you buy Mal BR regular box just one pack after you purchased the cigarettes you went to
Arabica is that correct yes while you're at Arabica how did you secure the bike and
where I didn't I just laid it up by the window at ARCA in the back so I could see it how long approximately did you
talk to Stan Kramer on that evening or how long was he sitting with you maybe like
15 maybe like 10 or 15 minutes did you work at a rabbit at all that night no while at of Raba did you mention to
Kevin young and Stan Kramer that there was going to be a robot tusen party at Dan dford house that evening I didn't
say there was going to be I said there might be cuz that's what Dad said before he went in the hospital he said the day
he got out he was going to have a robo party what did you tell Kevin young and Stan Kramer about who was coming over to
danford's house that evening I don't remember telling them anything what did you know about anything that was going
to happen at dford house that evening all I knew was that Lisa and Chris were coming over have you ever attended a
Robison party at danford's yes how many times did this occur only once what was in your opinion the result
of the people who drank robotussin at this party that is the effect of the robotussin on them and how did it affect
their actions they just went crazy Dan told me that it makes them feel strong and said something about some kind of
trans they go into when they get into this trance whoever they see at the end of this hallway they do whatever they
can to get them out of the hallway they kill if they have to sometimes they just knock the person
out of the hallway that's what he said would you explain what this hallway means he said one day that everybody's
got a hall way and when you take robus and it brings you back to your hallway and it's like if you take it you see a
hallway it's like a mild form of acid have you ever done robotussin and if so what was the effect of it yes I fell
asleep have you ever seen Dan dford under the influence of robertsen the only time I seen him he
was just coming down from it I never seen him when he was in the middle of not coming down from it what was his
conditions at that time and how did he act he just sits there and stared like he was asleep but had his eyes open when
was this robot tusin party and who was all there it was after I got out of rehab and before he went into the psych
ward Rebecca Boatright Andrea Conrad Jim Hannah me Dan and Deb was there Dan messenger was there too that's everybody
to the best of your knowledge did Dan D have a robosen party last Thursday night
I don't think he did on Thursday evening September 13th 1990 after you brought after you bought the pack of cigarettes
and went to Arabica did you leave araba with anyone and go over to the shack no I left with Kevin and I went
down to Shaker Boulevard and he went down South Woodland when you left arabika to return
to the dford house with the cigarettes which route did you take I went down Shaker Boulevard to Lee and then down
Lee prior to read in the dford house you stated you stopped in a vacant lot a few
doors from the dford house is is that correct yes was that to urinate yes approximately how far into the lot
did you go I put Dan's Bike down where the entrance is and I walked a couple steps
in did you take the bike into the lot and if so how far I just took the bike to like the edge of the lot where it was
in the grassy area like a couple feet after you finish urinating and returned to the dford house how did you make him
aware that you had returned I was throwing rocks at his bedroom window did he indicate to you that he
had heard you throwing the rocks at his window no he never said did he come outside to meet you yes I was standing
over by the garage and he came out and told me to go around back and then he came out the back with the door with his
dog and I told him I wasn't going to stay what did you do with the bike just gave it to him and he put it in the
garage did you physically see Dan dford put his bike in the garage yes was the garage open at the time or did he have
to open the door the garage was part way up it wasn't all the way up when you left
dford house and walked to the rapid what route did you take Lee to Shaker Boulevard did you stay on the sidewalk
on the west side of Lee Road all the way to Shaker Boulevard or did you exit the
sidewalk at any point no when you arrived at the Rapid station at Shaker and Lee was it was anyone else there did
you encounter anyone that you knew while walking from the driver's house to the rapid no when you finally got on the
rapid was there anyone else on the rapid no describe the rapid driver that you had a conversation with big black guy
with a beard where did you exit the rapid Shaker Square right by The Shack on your way walking from the rapid stop
to your apartment building did you see anyone that that you knew no when you arrived home who was there my mom and
her fiance boyfriend Rob Cornell did you have a conversation with them I just told my mom I didn't want to stay at
dance tonight approximately what time did you call Debbie dford from your apartment probably around 12:30 a.m. Did
you dial her direct at a residence at Ohio University yes when you called did she
answer the phone directly or did someone else pick it up first one of her friends
picked it up first did you know her name no how long did you talk to Debbie dford
about 30 minutes after that you went to sleep yes did you leave your apartment at any time between the time you spoke
to Debbie dord on the morning of September 14th 1990 no on September 14th 1990 when you first learned of the death
of Lisa puit did you hear or did somebody tell you how she was murdered somebody had told me she was hit with
something did anyone tell you that she had been stabbed no did anybody tell you that she had been raped no I heard that
on the news what time did you hear that on the news at noon when you went to Kevin Young's house on the morning of
September 14th 1990 approximately what time did you get there probably like 9 or 9:30 a.m. something like that at that
time when you advis Kevin young of the death of Lisa puit did you tell him that she had been stabbed and raped no are
you absolutely sure of that yes during the same conversation with Kevin young at approximately 9 or 9:30 a.m. did you
tell Kevin that you thought Dan dford had done it yes why did he say that because on the news they said they had
found her in his backyard and she was supposed to come over and see him so what made you think that even though you
heard where she was found that D drier would be capable of or want to murder Lisa puit I just thought if he did Robo
that night that he might have I don't know do you know for a fact and did you see
Dan dord consume any robotussin on the evening of September 13th 1990 or of the early morning hours of
September 14th 1990 no did you make the statement to Kevin young that you were afraid that if
Dan dord did it he might have used a knife of yours that was left at the dford house yes what kind of knife is
this it's a butterfly I left it in Deb's room and she told me that she took it with her when did she tell you this I
asked her what happened to it as soon as she came home and she said she took it to college with her did you tell Kevin
young to tell the police that you were with him until 10:45 p.m. the previous evening yes I told him that while I was
at the shack why so he wouldn't forget to tell you guys that I was with him so he wouldn't get in trouble and I
wouldn't get in trouble did you make a statement to Kevin young that on the evening of September 13th
1990 that Dan dord told Lisa pu it that he wanted to cut her hair and he wanted you to hold her down while he did it he
was just playing around when he said it did he make that statement yeah did he have a pair of scissors in his hands
when he made that statement No he had Clippers in his hand did you ever attempt or have sexual
intercourse with a it no on Saturday September 15th 1990 in the evening hours were you at the dford
home yes I think it was from maybe about 11: until 12:30 a.m. did anything happen
between the times at the dford house that got you angry or made you lose your temper yes Deb's dad was just getting on
my nerves and me and Deb left the house he was nitpicking at Deb and it was just
kind of getting on my nerves on Friday night Deb seene kind of like a flashlight in the bushes and I got
pissed off and went down to the street to see what it was but I didn't see anything since the murder of Lisa puit
have you threatened to kill anyone yes who when I thought it was Dan and I went down the street on Friday night I was
going to do the same thing to them as whoever did that to Lisa from the time you heard about Lisa pu's death until
right now have you had any contact with Lisa's parents I had some contact with some lady that was there with Lisa's mom
and I told her if Lisa had any Diaries or any journals or anything to turn them into the police because they might have
some information what did she say she asked me my name and said okay did this woman tell you that Lisa did in
fact have a diary no how would you describe your relationship with Kevin young we're friends until he like starts
going nuts would you consider him to be your best friend sometimes would you relate to me what you told me previously
about the information you had on David Branan David told me that he was on the street that night and he was walking and
a cop asked him what he was doing on the street and he said nothing and that he walked a girl home and the cop took his
name and everything then told Deb that he had his knife on him that night and last night he showed it to us me and Deb
Deb asked him if he still had his knife and he said yeah pulled it out of his pocket describe this knife for me it's
just had brass knuckles and the knife pops out of the side approximately how long is this knife about two and a half
three inches long just the blade how long is the blade on your butterfly knife that you described about six in
did you ever have any kind of relationship with Lisa puit or did you want to no to both questions when you
boarded the rapid at Shaker in Lee that night shortly after midnight on September 14th 1990 do you remember what
the sign said on the rapid the sign said Shaker Square the butterfly knife that you described as
yours where is it now it's in Athens Ohio it's been there since the 6th of September what kind of handle does it
have metal it's got holes drilled in the handle to your knowledge why would Debbie dford take your knife to college
with her cuz I gave it to her so wouldn't cause me no trouble what kind of trouble just by carrying it because
I'm on probation for truancy and running away and stuff prior to getting on the rapid shortly after midnight on the 14th
of September 199 90 did you see the same rapid driver before and if so where going the opposite way while I was
sitting on the tracks waiting to go to Shaker Square he passed me up going eastbound and then came back Westbound
and picked me up during the day Friday September 14th 1990 did you have any contact with any school teacher
counselor or teachers other than getting your work permit from Mr Val Mr anandale
I think I called him earlier day to see if there was anything else going on I think I called him once and Deb called
him once is there anything else that you wish to add to your statement No but I just remember Dave B tried to sell me a
stolen gun about two weeks ago by this time Shaker Heights detectives must have known that someone
was lying to them everyone was pointing fingers at everyone else everyone who knew that Lisa puit
was going to be at danford's the night she was murdered seemed to have an alibi as Loose as aliis could be so who was
lying Dan dford Tex or was it Kevin young like Dan's friends wanted the police to
believe just when it couldn't get any more complicated in walk's 18-year-old Stanley
Kramer Stan could you date starting from Thursday September 13th 1990 the approximate time you went to work at
Arabica that evening and relate to me as best as you can recall the events of the
evening which relate to you of who you may have seen who you may have talked to and anything that you can remember about
that evening okay Scoops closes about 10: and after we closed I usually do the mopping at about 10:15 p.m. when I was
mopping I I noticed Kevin young was sitting at a table right by Scoops he was emotionally depressed it looked like
he was crying and singing songs I know some of the songs that he was singing I've heard him when I was younger I
continued mopping for about 5 to 10 more minutes and I saw Kenny Workman come in
and sit with Kevin so I wasn't as worried as I was when I saw Kevin from the first time about what was wrong I
pretty much finished up at about I'd say about 10:30 p.m. and that's when I clocked out and I decided to join Kevin
and Kenny at the table the conversation up was Kevin was upset because a friend of his I don't remember the name at all
was in a rock I don't know if he was living or dead but Kevin was like hallucinating wanting him to walk
through the araba door so Kevin could give him a hug say hello how have you been and so forth I called my dad at
about roughly 10: p.m. I went to get a pack of cigarettes for at about 10:35 p.m. and when I got back I sat down and
smoked one cigarette which takes me roughly 5 minutes I got up and called my dad roughly 10:40 p.m. to come and give
me a ride home I went back to the table and the same conversation was up at the table that was when I left I have no
awareness of what they were talking about at all my dad got to the back of Arabica at about 10:45 p.m. which is
when I say goodbye to Kevin and Kenny yeah Kevin and Kenny um I went outside to get into the car my dad asked me to
go in and get him a Coke came back in Kevin and Kenny were walking out the front door to go home which from my
knowledge is where they were going um um Kenny was riding Dan dford bike which he
had to return that evening and when me and my father pulled out of the driveway I tried to get him the coke I saw Kevin
young walking up a street I think it was drexmore alone and it looked like he was
headed home what did you do after that I had a lot of studying to do that evening
and I went home I watched a little bit of the news just to get caught up on current events like I usually do I went
upstairs to do my homework it was a rough day and I had a little bit of homework to do so I did have a little
bit to drink a few beers after I finished my homework I pretty much crashed I went to sleep got ready for
school the next day when you were at a Raba with text Workman and Kevin Young on Thursday night did you hear any
conversation about a possible party at danford's that night no I did not were you aware from the conversation between
Tex and Kevin young that Dan dford was back in town um we all knew from that day Kenny was in school that day I'm
almost positive he was that was the day that Kenny did drop out but I do know for a fact that we all knew that Dan was
back in town when did you first learn that Dan dford was back in town it was roughly in
between the hour of 12:00 noon and 1:00 p.m. Thursday noon go ahead and explain the same thing
you said before okay um I was uh I don't have a sixth seventh eth period so Alexi
ratcheson a friend of mine that graduated in ' 89 was up at the school he's usually up there just driving
around I asked him if he would drive me up to the gas station to pick up a pack of smokes he did so and when I came back
we usually park right outside the science wing of the school I looked out the window and I saw what I thought was
Danny dford which I didn't know at first and I called his name and it was Dany and he walked over to the car and we we
just reunited started to talk and I saw him throughout the rest of the afternoon
until about 400 p.m. which I had to go home to go to work who's the friend of yours and what was his name Alexi
ratcheson Alexi Alexi that night out of Raba when you left with your dad you state you saw Kevin young walking up
Drex more towards Shaker Heights is that correct yes did you see Tex Warman leave
um I did not see him leave I knew where his bike was parked it was parked right outside the window of where we were
sitting and the bike was gone so I figured they must have left and any time were you aware that Kevin and Tech
workmen had left araba and walked over to a place called the shack I have no awareness of it do you
know where the shack is yes where where is that it's the rapid transits restaurant right on Shaker Boulevard in
Shaker Square what hours did you work at AR rabaca on Thursday night from my knowledge it was 5:00 p.m. to close
which is at 10: p.m. which I stated earlier how well do you know Kevin young I know him pretty well I used to
play Little League baseball with him when we were both younger and we had missed each other for a while after the
team ended that summer he went back to school and I went back to school I was still in the middle school at the time
when I got up to uh I think the 8th grade I when I started going up to the high school to see other friends of mine
I met back up with Kevin and we started talking and just getting caught back up so I've known him roughly well since
about the 8th grade which is since I'm a senior would be 1995 I mean 1985 that's what I
figure Des Des for me Kevin young as you know him what what do you know about him
he had a normal Teenage life did what most teenagers do drink go to parties on the weekend from what I remember he did
quite well in school he wasn't one of the types to slack off that much with the school workor cuz he was really
concerned with his life when he got out of school he just graduated in the year of 1990 from the Shaker Heights High
School and he's a part of my group at Shaker Square araba lately um what I've been hearing
what me and Kevin been doing which was maybe about once or twice is drinking which seems like Kevin is having
somewhat of an alcoholic problem which somewhat scares me with Kevin because I know Kevin quite well and he was really
interested in baseball and he started smoking and drinking which surprised me that Kevin would do something like that
that heavily could you describe for me what you know in regards to any relationship between Kevin young and
Lisa puit okay I have known that for the last two years Kevin has had a crush I don't know if you want to say crush on
Lisa uh he really was not to distract you go ahead and describe the relationship between Kevin and
Lisa um last two years Kevin has been in marching band with Lisa and they were pretty close and sming band is pretty
much a big family um to my knowledge Kevin has had a crush on Lisa for the last two years and when his knowledge
came about Dan dford going out with Lisa he was very angry distracted about Dan going out with Lisa not him did he tell
you that or is that just from behavior that you observe I have heard that from Danny dford Kenny Workman and once from
Kevin young could you identify the members and kids you are referring to when you say your group yes um in the
group are Kenny Workman Kevin young Ken mamoto Jerry Eisenberg Jud ozgood Gina massina if that's her last name um
another one I'm just thinking of now is John Hannan and Alexi breson at least until he started working at Arab and
there are few more that just don't go to Shaker Heights High School so they're usually not there all the time how well
do you know Kenny Workman since Kenny's come to Shaker Heights High School as a freshman which
was last year I've known him quite well we're both pretty much the same we're crazy we're both crazy well in the means
of doing the usual things that we would do in the Arabica Group which which is drink and every once in a while just
party go down to Coventry look for fights um we were crazy one evening and we became Blood Brothers so I pretty
much say that me and Kenny Workman or to me Tex are darn close describe Tex what
what kind of a person he is um Tex when he came up to the high school he looked like he wasn't as enthusiastic as a
normal teen is for high school he was like different he really did not want to be there it's like high school wasn't
for him um I mean that I'm used to it with our group but people normally don't like high school that had to be there
was a literal dislike he stayed in school he didn't go most of the time we did a lot of cutting at the end of
second semester of last year I dropped out of school which I really stopped going to the high school it was maybe
about I dropped out of the Shaker Heights High School High School wasn't for me I was a junior at the time I
don't know I just didn't like school I came back up every once in a while until I got a job at Universal printing which
my dad owns and was coming up to the school and when Tex or any of the group was cutting I'd be joining them which
most of the time I did see Kenny Workman after the last year this summer I was on
vacation most of the summer so I didn't really see him that much him and Debbie dford had been together which has been a
weird relationship they've broken up I think about three times times and now they're engaged to get married which
really confuses me I mean I'm glad that they are but I don't see how both parties are really wanting to do that
but this year I went back to school I enrolled again for some reason they put me up as a senior and I'm happy about
that Kenny was clicked in as freshman at the Shaker Heights High School he failed
last year we were doing the same thing pretty much at the beginning of this year um we were both caught smoking
outside the school which is in the rule book it illegal and we were both suspended for 3 days which my parents
didn't know about so hopefully they won't hear from this Kenny after being suspended he went into Richard blah one
of the he's assistant principal and was talking to him and he asked if he would tell that Mr vlah would tell Kenny's mom
that he really does not want to be in school cuz Kenny's mom is one of those kinds of moms that don't really want to
listen to the sun they just think it's coming out of their mouth because they're sick of school but after Richard
VW Mr VW I mean talked to Kenny's mom they got the paper signed and Kenny dropped out of school after that a big
change came in Kenny he got a full-time job he started dressing nice he was like
really getting his life back in order but he didn't know what he was going to do we didn't know if he was going to
become a druggie to just a regular bomb and the farthest away was actually get a
full-time job and actually look good which he is now that's pretty much all the knowledge I know up to Lisa's death
could you describe what you know about robatas and cough syrup in terms of how it fits in with your group of friends
the only people I know that have taken robot usin to get a high are Kenny Workman Danny dford I think I'm almost
positive that Dany and Kenny were the two that found that it did something to you um those are the only two people I'm
really positively sure about trying it to the best of your knowledge how many times have either Danny or Kenny
tried robotussin well me for one have known him to walk around when he has problems when he doesn't want to go home
he just walks around a lot just to get stuff off his chest he just he doesn't want to really go home at his house his
mom is the caring kind and she'll ask what's wrong he doesn't really want to tell anyone about it except someone from
the group but if we're not there for him or if there's something else up or if we're having a phone conversation he
just won't bring it up with us I have known him to walk around a few times by himself
have you ever had any knowledge of him sneaking out of his house without his parents knowing
it I know he is 18 and if his rules are the same as mine he doesn't really have to well since he graduated I don't think
he has to worry about sneaking out I don't think he has a curfew on the night of September 13th
1990 when you returned home from work from Arabica did you leave your house after you got home for any reason no I
did not were your parents awake when you retired for the evening on September 13th 1990 no they roughly went to bed at
about 11:30 p.m. and I was still up studying was anybody else in your household up at the time no when you
said you were studying and had a few beers to drink that night do you have an idea how many beers you had roughly six
to eight do you or do any of your friends that we have mentioned so far or maybe some of them we haven't regularly
or not regularly carry any typee of weapon from my knowledge Tex had a butterfly which Debbie drer took to
college with her when she left about a week ago she took it to College because Tex really had no need for it um Ken
mamoto has a switchblade would any of this be used against you know one of friends no no okay cuz I have one myself
which I lost it was a butterfly knife I showed it to someone and like walked over to him around the car and I came
back back and forgot to retrieve it so I haven't seen it for roughly 2 to 3 weeks
so and that's pretty much it out of the group do you know who has your butterfly no idea at all from my
knowledge it could be on someone's dresser to someone actually giving it back to me and me putting it in my room
without me knowing where I put it do you have any direct knowledge or have you ever heard of Lisa puit sneaking out of
her house to go see Dan dford or anybody else no I know of no past or I don't even know why she did it this evening
Lisa is not the kind of girl that would sneak out she has a foreign exchange student at her house that's the second
reason why I wouldn't think that she would sneak out unless it was very important to see Dan that evening so
that I understand you correctly you didn't really know Lisa puit well is that correct not as well as other people
you wouldn't have any idea who Lisa puit might confide in as far as a female friend
not off the top of my head not any of her really close friends did you ever meet her parents no I was planning on
going over there this weekend but there were too many people over there and I didn't go over there I'd rather it be a
few and round of people over there do you have any knowledge of the feelings or either Mr dford or miss dford on how
they felt about Dan going out with Lisa puit that they had both approved of it but I'm really wondering about Mr dford
from my knowledge he supposedly had a crush on Lisa I don't know how long it's been but he's really supposedly liked
her I mean it's a rumor it's not straight facts I didn't hear it from Dan or Dan's father but he has had a crush
on her and she has been going over from what I know she has been going over to the Dyer's house to see if Dan's home
yet hear of any messages from Dan as where Dan was he can't write out to people of the family from I mean if
friend of mine was in there and they cannot right accept a family members can you tell me who you heard this from
about Mr dford having a crush on Lisa I'm not sure the girl's first name but hiy Warren who just heard it from Abby
Wilson mcferson she is a senior at the high school and she is in the yearbook hie mcferson
Abby Abby is this a rumor that you heard prior to Lisa's death or after her death after I only heard it this
afternoon on my way to the funeral from hiy and she did not want me to repeat it
to anyone for reasons of she didn't want it to slip out which I have no idea why
because I know I'd heard on behalf of the other kids at Shaker we want whoever did this behind
bars is there anything else you can think of that you've heard thought saw or otherwise in the last few days that
might be a value or interest to us in trying to figure out what happened to Lisa puit thought of what could have
happened in my mind from hearing the knowledge of a possible linking Lisa Dan's father and Dan and Dan's father
were supposedly out the evening Lisa's incident happened they were both in the same room and they both heard a scream
this is from what I know for a fact or at least from the papers Dan's father told Dan to go out and see what happened
if he can see anything at all Dan came back didn't hear or see anything um and you pretty much know the whole thing
after after that he went back after the police were called they went out they didn't see anything Dan went back out
looked for his bike looked around found Lisa's bike came back out to the police and that's when the body was found I
don't know if Dan's father and him were still in the same room that Dan's father
might have told Dan that look you're going to be looked at as to being a suspect in this because Lisa was heading
over here I'll say that you were me and you were in the same room talking or whatever and that's when we heard it
from what I can think I don't know if it could possibly happen but that might have never happened Dan's father might
have heard Dan talking on the phone to Lisa and met her outside before she actually got to the house that's really
off the top of my head that possibly could have happened which the skid marks on the sidewalk could explain the corner
ones as maybe his father maybe walking around the corner or surprising her and then skitting to a halt saying oh hello
and then walking towards the house Mr dord possibly thinking about it or riding a bike still turning around again
abruptly and having to slam on the brakes again to describe the other ones on leer Road I heard there were two skid
marks one on South Woodland and one on Lee is that true whatever I I could picture Mr dford doing something like
that I don't want to say it because I like Mrs dford rumors from Debbie dford and Danny dford they consider their
father a Hitler which really having the full meaning of why they call him this or why the nickname came up but he was
like strict he was one of the stricter parents around the neighborhood with the kids were you aware or have you heard
halisa was supposed to meet Dan that evening or how she was supposed to let him know she was there the only way I
could figure is the way we always do it is when girlfriends sneak out or boyfriend sneak out the parents are up
in bed the one is waiting by his window to in the family room they have a TV room which looks out there's a window
along the side there's a fence because you're aware of that from looking around she could have easily parked her bike
right there and knocked on the window do anything like that I mean through those
windows I know that you can't really hear anything if the TV's playing because I've been in there waiting for
Dan this weekend when I was going over to visit him to see what he was doing I couldn't hear the cars when the TV was
playing if that can be of any help to you guys I just thought about [Music] that
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Shaker Heights - Episode 2: The Weird Kid in School

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

In the early morning hours of Friday, September 14, 1990, 16 year old Lisa Pruett was stabbed to death in Shaker Heights. This is a 6 part true crime series. The bulk of the story comes from actual police interviews. As the story unfolds, ask yourself, who do you think killed Lisa Pruett?Directed and produced by True Crime Garage. Co-produced by The Philosophy of Crime and narration written by James Renner

A BIG Thank You to all of our voice actors!Jordan Bonaparte - www.NightTimePodcast.com (http://www.nighttimepodcast.com/) Tyler Allen - www.MindsofMadnessPodcast.com (http://www.mindsofmadnesspodcast.com/) Jessica Bettencourt - True Crime Garage & Scene of the Crime Podcasts Mike Bussing - Executive Producer of Truth & Justice with Bob RuffBob Ruff - www.TruthandJusticePod.com (http://www.truthandjusticepod.com/) Tim Pilleri - www.CrawlSpace-Media.com (http://www.crawlspace-media.com/) Aaron H - www.GenWhyPod.com (http://www.genwhypod.com/) & www.FramedPod.com (http://www.framedpod.com/) Maggie Freleng - www.MaggieFreleng.com (http://www.maggiefreleng.com/) Bill Huffman - My Passion Case and Who killed Podcasts - www.SloBurnMedia.com (http://www.sloburnmedia.com/) Morgan - The Captain & Morgan Podcast Jessica Yuan - www.AsianMadnessPod.Podbean.com (http://www.asianmadnesspod.podbean.com/) Melissa Lee - Victimology PodcastScotty Boombox - www.ScottyBoombox.com (http://www.scottyboombox.com/) Jesse P Pollock - Author of “Death on the Devil’s Teeth” & “The Acid King”James Renner - www.PhilosophyOfCrime.com (http://www.philosophyofcrime.com/)

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Brief Summary

The episode investigates the murder of Lisa Puit, focusing on suspects Dan Dford and Kevin Young amid conflicting alibis and motives.

Key points

The Murder of Lisa Puit. 16-year-old Lisa Puit was stabbed to death in Shaker Heights, Ohio, in 1990.
Kevin Young's Threat. Kevin Young expressed jealousy and a desire to kill Lisa Puit, raising suspicions.
Tex Workman's Alibi. Tex Workman claims he was with Dan Dford the night Lisa was murdered.
Emotional Turmoil. Kevin expresses deep sadness over a friend's absence, revealing his emotional state.
The Night of the Murder. Details emerge about the events leading up to Lisa's tragic death.
Threats in Anger. The witness admits to threatening someone in anger after Lisa's murder.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I want her dead.

Kevin Young's chilling statement about Lisa Puit.

4:14WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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