Who Crucified the Pastor ////// 298 | Forensic Files

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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime as many as 1,000 people packed into an
Oklahoma Church Monday to say goodbye to a prominent member of the state's religious community Pastor Carol Daniels
was found dead inside a small town Church late last month apparently the victim of a violent attack Daniel
suffered dashes to her neck and throat plus stab wounds to other parts of her body Daniels traveled to the church
every Sunday to deliver a sermon those who knew her are remembering the good she did in the community she's always
been the same person every time you saw her always very sweet uh just always love God love people just the sweetest
person you ever wanted to know always supportive always love people always willing you know to jump in and Tackle
you know a task um always want to help help people that was just her vision her mission was always going to help someone
along the way during Monday's service mourners were asked to pray for whoever took Daniel's life some say the person
responsible would have benefited from spending some time with the pastor there's absolutely no logic other than
that person didn't know the Lord Jesus Christ and if they had sat down and spent some time with Pastor Daniels they
would have come to know him and maybe made some other decisions a $10,000 reward has been offered for information
leading to an arrest and conviction in the Ed Donahue the Associated [Music] Press mother and Pastor Carol Daniels
lived in Oklahoma City Oklahoma her son Alvin describes Carol as a loving mother
someone who was always joking and always taking care of her family she was an extremely giving mother in person back
in 2009 pastor Carol Daniels was 61 years old on Sunday August 23rd she got in her car and drove 60 miles or so
Southwest to anad Darko Oklahoma this was her routine for about four or five years every week on Sundays driving 60
mil to Christ holy Sanctified Church in a rundown area of anad Darko she drove to the church to preach or if no one was
there she would stay and pray anad Darko Oklahoma is described as a small town that in 2009 was economically
depressed about a half mile from the church is a neighborhood that was described as quote a pretty high crime
area troubled by drugs including cracked cocaine and also having a large transient population now on the other
hand we have this beautiful person we have Pastor Carol Fay Daniels who is a Beacon of light described as a champion
for the helpless and the Hopeless there to serve God and the community she kept the doors open each Sunday morning
waiting there with open arms sometimes she would go out into the streets offering food and Goodwill to those who
needed it most ask anyone in the small town Pastor Daniels was loved yeah but it was a pretty small congregation right
well Christ's holy Sanctified church was a tiny Church it it was a small aging white building with a big black cross on
the front now they did have a marquee outside which listed the worship times as well as Pastor Daniel's name in a
simple message that said God loves you now on August 23rd 2009 Pastor Daniels after making the long drive to the
church she was seen at 10:00 a.m. outside of the church yeah and she won't be discovered until about
11:40 because retired Bishop silky Wilson Jr and his wife are going to arrive at the church now they get a
little scared so they don't go into the church and they call law enforcement and
then law enforcement is going to find the pastor so the way that this works is the bishop Wilson and his wife they
arrive around 11:40 a.m. at the church okay and this is a fairly regular meeting it didn't take place every
Sunday day but this was a fairly regular thing for Bishop Wilson to meet Pastor Daniels at the church right okay so they
pull up everything seems normal and they get to the front door the problem is the
front door is locked well this is highly unusual um Pastor I'm sorry Bishop Wilson couldn't recall another occasion
where he arrived and the door was locked so he uses his Cane to knock on the door
but there's no answer and Bishop Wilson said that the church was too quiet as if no one was home and
this was confusing to him and his wife because Pastor Daniel's car was out front now he said that they shouted they
tapped on the Windows they even drove around the building hitting the car horn and still they got no response from
anyone inside the church yeah I mean I think that this seems a little off but think about it you go to a small church
it's a small building you know that your friend is supposed to be there you knock
there's no answer and her car's there that's all you need to really get spooked right mhm well this is also not
a great area uh I want to point that out they have a pretty low murder rate uh for that time in that that town but this
is not a great area uh this is kind of a rundown side of town and there's to put it as as politely as I
can there's there's some sketchy people in this neighborhood okay so what happens here is he has his wife alert
the Police now according to the incident report the call that went out was for a
welfare check at the church and regarding Pastor Daniels so at approximately 12: noon officer Ashley
bur was dispatched to 305 Northeast First Street upon arriving at 12:02 p.m. he met with the reporting party Bishop
Wilson and his wife mhm some of you may have noticed the very fast response time
we should note that the police station is less than one city block from the church officer burus entered the
building from the side door once inside he discovered the brutalized body of Pastor Daniels the officer immediately
called for back up and within minutes officer burus and two other officers cleared the building and and secured the
scene due to the heinous nature of the crime the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations were called in five
officers waited outside the church guarding the scene until the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations arrived
on the scene now the state Bureau of Investigation the lead agency in the case tried to pull fingerprints or
uncover even a shred of DNA evidence at the scene they got neither what was the early information that came out about
the investigation well so there there were some details that were very publicly known very early on in the
investigation and these come from statements of people working the case and people around the case so first we
have Cherokee Ballard is the state medical examiner office spokeswoman who said quote a preliminary autopsy deemed
Daniel's death a homicide caused by multiple sharp force injuries Carol Daniels suffered numerous gashes to her
neck and throat as well as a stab wounds to her chest back stomach and hands her
body had been quote staged in an unnatural position and then we have Dr William Manion forensic pathologist said
Carol Daniels appeared to have been left in the form of a cross with both arms outstretched at her sides her head was
nearly decapitated by the force of deep stabs to her neck and throat according to local newspapers and
their sources the body of Carol Daniels was staged behind the church altar Daniel's clothing had been removed
possibly to hide evidence or as some kind of trophy from the grizzly scene investigators say her killer
methodically sprayed a dissolving chemical around her body in an effort to destroy DNA evidence evidence at the
crime scene and then district attorney Brett Burns said I've prosecuted over 50 murders this is the most horrific crime
scene I've ever witnessed so I mean it sounds like it's premeditated if they're bringing some kind of cleaning solution
well what's not clear there is it could have been something that was found inside the church itself yeah very true
um and then I do want to offer up one final statement this is from Jessica Brown state of Investigation spokeswoman
which going forward just to save time we will we will say OSBI uh she said authorities do not have
any suspects and are offering a $110,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction she says right now
we have more questions than answers the few answers we do have we want to hold on to that might help us in the long run
Pastor Carol Daniels Funeral Services were held August 3rd 31st in Oklahoma City and as you heard in the trailer
there there was like a thousand people turned out for uh her funeral services her son Alvin Daniels said quote all my
mother wanted to do was preach and her funeral would be another chance for her to spread the word of God so any first
thoughts there Captain regarding the early information that came out after the discovery of this horrific murder
well even though it's a small congreg the problem here with such a public figure is these pastors are hired to do
funerals they're hired to do weddings they normally councel marriage counsel people outside their congregation and
then you take a typical congregation let's say it only holds let's say 100 people but the congregation could be 500
people or if you think about the congregation members that only show up on E Easter or just Christmas now you're
talking about uh a thousand people M so and then you mentioned earlier this is not a great area so churches are known
to take collections that evidence by taking the clothes the cleaning of the body or the cleaning
solution M and the manner in which her body is found to me lends it to to be a a murder for a reason mhm but then her
being a pastor and it being a church you also wonder is this um is the motive a burglary gone bad yeah I mean really
when you start to think about this you could have a a bevy of motives here and I want to be clear I've never been to
anad Darko it it could be the most fabulous place in the world I'm simply going off of what was stated in the
newspapers thecal local newspapers at the time I've been to Oklahoma City great City uh but they were saying that
this part of town is a high crime uh rate area and like you pointed out there you wonder do we have a situation where
this is either a premeditated murder by somebody that knew her and and wanted her killed for whatever reason or two
could this have just been somebody looking to to make an easy robbery and I say easy robbery
because the way that they describe this scenario and the way that Pastor Carol Daniels went about her business is that
she would arrive at the church and the the church's front door is unlocked and the doors are open to the public come in
you know seek if you're seeking worship if you're seeking prayer if you're seeking advice from the great Pastor
whatever our doors are open to you all walks of life do we have anything that we think is possible pieces of evidence
well we have a bunch of really interesting things here some of it being evidence and some of it being
speculation but before we get into that I want to point out something that that we've already covered is what the the
investigators were saying at the time that right now we have more questions than we do have answers and answers that
we have want to hold on to for now because they could help us in the long run and that's where I think that
there's some of this questionable movements and behaviors that we should bring up here um you know cuz I've seen
on some message boards and some websites where there is some speculation and people that that in a roundabout way
suggest that they find The Bishop's story a little strange that just finding the locked door door trying to get some
kind of response from inside the church that this put him on high alert enough that he has his wife contact the local
police M so I I think we should dive into that real quick because what we have here is uh Bishop Wilson is an
elderly gentleman we already said he's using a cane at the time some people have questioned when the police arrive
at the scene Okay so we have the front door that's locked right but we know from the incident report that the
responding officer entered the church through a side door now it's unclear on how the officer gained access to and
through that side door because some people have suggested well why wouldn't the bishop and his wife have tried the
side door you know hinting that it could have been unlocked right and we don't know
from the incident report 100% if they found that door to be unlocked or or here's the other scenario there may
have been obvious signs that somebody broke into that side door right and so not only would the officer be able to
access the building from that side door but that would also scare the the good bishop and his wife to say you know
we're not we're not 20 years old honey and I'm not packing heat maybe we shouldn't head in there we don't know
what we're walking into right so I think we should clearly point that out I've also o found one bit of interesting
thought and I and I'm I'm going to say that this is speculation regarding the side door because I couldn't find other
stories to back this up One Source said that the door was removed as as evidence that at some
point the investigators took that door off the hinges and made it evidence and the speculation being that if this would
have been some type of hate crime or some kind kind of satanic related crime that there may have been something drawn
or painted on that door and therefore they removed it because that's something only the killer would know but part of
my speculation on this is going a bit of the other direction I wonder if the door
was simply broken into but again that was something that the killer would know that one the door
was broken into and and the possible method of breaking into that door as well and that could be another good
reason for removing it one thing that we didn't get to yet either Captain is okay
so you have what the papers are calling the posing of the body and we know that the we know that Pastor Daniels was stri
nude the clothing her clothing was not found at the scene we know that a cleaning agent or some type of cleaning
solution chemicals were dumped on the body but on top of of that some of her hair was
burned and some of the articles that you read will state that it was completely burned off that they burned off her hair
if you read the autopsy they burn off a good majority of her hair but she still had hair when she was found mm so here's
one it's very strange it is very strange it's what I'm getting at here is it seems like we have a situation where
she's brutally attacked and I'm not going to go through the autopsy uh from top to bottom in this
situation just trust me in my words when I say this was a vicious attack and I think the captain was getting to
something there that that could very likely be correct that this could be premeditated and it could be somebody
that either wanted to seek revenge against the good pastor or had it out for her for some reason that if when we
talk about Overkill if you want to go find find the autopsy and read it yourself you can
what you will find there is obvious signs of Overkill and then on top of that the killer took the time to confuse
the scene to do things at the scene of the crime and had some time there they didn't just flee they didn't kill and
flee whoever did this they stayed with the body for a little bit of time all right well let's go over the situation
it's T-shirt time the cabs are here this is what doesn't make any sense to me if
that door has some kind of drawing on it maybe some symbolism then is the taking of the
clothes is that symbolism is the burning of the hair some kind of symbolism mhm the way the body is laid out is that
some kind of symbolism we we've seen this in other cases where the neck the neck injuries are so deep and almost
cause causes decapitation is are all these things some kind of symbolism okay so I do have
some possible evidence but I also have some really good thoughts on all of that what do you want to hit first well let's
start with the evidence and we'll just keep those in the back of our thoughts okay so first we have a possible
eyewitness a man claimed he saw the murder suspect leaving the church this is Robert Richardson said he was across
the street from the church in anad Darko where the murder took place Robert said
quote this guy was coming out he was covered in blood he had a ski mask on he had a knife in his hand and it was
dripping blood Richardson said that he was at a car wash so there's a car wash across
the street from this church MH and this is where he says that he was when he saw
the man emerge from the Christ holy Sanctified church he said it wasn't until a few hours later that he found
out what had actually happened he said quote a friend of mine said pastor Daniels got killed and that just hurt me
to my heart that was my pastor Richardson said Richardson said he didn't immediately go to police right
away because he was drinking at the time when he saw the man and he didn't want police to question his credibility
however Richardson said he eventually went to police and investigators and told them what had happened and they
questioned him it's reported that Robert Richardson is homeless and was possibly
living behind that actual car wash at the time right neighbors said he makes a living doing odd jobs around town
Richardson says his story is the truth but there are contradictions in Richardson's story does he have
a a good look at this individual does does he think it's a female or male does he think it's a a white man or black man
well that's where we have some problems with Richardson's story so he was interviewed by local news by multiple
local news stations right and in these published reports he gives a different story right so in one report he says
that the blood soaked suspect was black and baldheaded but then he tells news9 that
the suspect was wearing a ski mask so you wouldn't be able to tell one or the other if the suspect had hair or not
that's that's the my pet peeve is When somebodys U this one time in college we had this guy that came up and he was
yelling at us because we're partying and he said look uh I got some friends over
and uh and we're having a conversation downstairs and we're trying to sleep and it was like which one is it right it
can't be both at the same time well I I tell you what I don't believe Robert Richardson's story but I do this makes
you suspicious of him right well I do like the cut of his jib because it was presented to him that they're like hey
there's contradictions in these stories that you're saying and he says if anyone
doesn't want to believe me they can just go about their business so here's here's the big
problem with his statement not only do they not match up but what I just read from our portions Tak from a news story
in that particular news story it almost makes it sound like he gave this statement to police later that day the
day of the murder or the night of the murder or maybe even the next day but the problem with that is we know this
now to not be true so this does not add to the credibility of this gentleman it just takes away from it so not only it
does his story is it different depending on who he's talking to but he didn't immediately go to police at any time and
I know we have his statement saying hey I was drinking but from the information that I could find he didn't go to Police
from anywhere until 7 days to as many as 11 days after the murder M another reason why the story is changing because
he might just not remember well and it's it's difficult to narrow down exactly when he went to police because both the
anad Darko police and OSBI they refused to comment publicly on Mr Richardson's statement or if they
even spoke with him at all so the first time I could find Mr Richardson popping up in the media was already after the
reward money was announced which was initially $110,000 and one week later was bumped
up to $115,000 MH so you can take that for what you will that's likely not evidence second police did recover video
surveillance footage from a convenience store adjacent to the church this footage shows Pastor Daniel's driving up
in front of the church on Broadway to park her car at 10:00 a.m. mhm now back in 2009 police were pretty tight lipped
about what was on or not on that camera footage for the record this is footage from two cameras both keep in mind a
distance away but one captures kind of a side view of the front of the church and
the other camera is facing the other direction now the third possible thing we could talk about in relationship to
evidence is the murder weapon We Know by the autopsy findings that the murder was
committed using sharp force so very likely a knife and judging by the report I read likely a large one mhm this knife
was not found at this the scene so no murder weapon left at the scene what they did find was a large knife reported
to be 6 to 10 in in length recovered from across the street from the church at that car wash that we've already
mentioned now unfortunately we now know that this knife was eliminated so this this knife
was not the murder weapon I don't know what cleared that knife but it's been publicly stated that that was eliminated
as Mur right but this goes along with the reports that this is a rough area when you're finding knives randomly at
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mates and before we get into it too much here here Captain a belated birthday a happy belated birthday to you there's a
cheers all right through the glass happy 420 man while we're on the topic of items that were not found at the crime
scene we have to keep in mind that someone stripped Carol Daniels after killing her the pastor's clothes were
taken from the scene so some have suggested that this could mean one or two of the following that either one
this was a sexually motivated crime two the clothing was taken as a trophy this would be possibly because the offender
is a serial killer or maybe a Satanist and three the clothing was taken to eliminate evidence and or
confuse the crime scene yeah it just seems like with the cleaning solution that maybe the clothes were taken to get
rid of evidence I think that's the most likely scenario regarding sexually motivated crime there was no there was
no sexual assault believed to have taken place during the commission of this murder and I understand that it doesn't
have to that does not have to occur for it to be a sexually motivated crime but I'm with you Captain it seems to me if
they're going to go to if the Killer is going to go to the lengths of spending time at the crime scene to remove the
victim's clothing then they're very likely doing that to eliminate evidence and or infus the crime scene now
regarding the report of the body being posed according to investigators working the case there are only three reasons
Pastor Daniel's body would have been posed in such a way one it was a crime of sexual fantasy slf frustration this
is the most common reason to find a body posed sexual fantasy or to give the killer sexual pleasure two it was done
out of anger and retaliation where someone does does this to get back at the victim and to further degrade them
even after death three it was done with the intention of confusing investigators
to make the scene look like one thing when it's actually about something else knowing which can give
investigators insight to the killer it is a key piece of evidence only the killer would know which would be
critical during interrogation now online sleuther some have added a fourth possibility Pastor Daniels was
killed as a religious statement and her body was posed to serve as some kind of biblical
Tableau the interesting thing here is out of all of those scenarios we have we have some that line
up with the possibilities in regards to removing the clothing as well MH and one
of those being to confuse the investigators to confuse the crime scene and I think that could be exactly what
we have here but I think what we what we've not got into is a fifth possibility okay so we have an expert
who who was active in this case and he has written dozens of books on the many facets of homicides including an 800
page text that is widely known as the quote Bible of homicide investigations in fact copies of this sits on detective
desk Across the Nation this is a very popular um textbook now this expert wouldn't talk specifically about Pastor
Daniel's case but did discuss some of the clues left at the scene and regarding the posing of her body he says
quote if the body was posed I can State unequivocally it's extremely rare circumstances he says less than 1% of
all homicides present sexually posed victims so keeping that in mind it seems more likely that maybe she wasn't posed
at all that the body may have just been in that manner left in that manner for whatever reason just by happen stance
and that people have speculated that she was posed and I think that's that's probably a pretty good conclusion to
come to in this without knowing for certain because you would have a situation where we have a a murdered
Pastor found inside of a church and if she's found lying on her back with her arms spread out it may seem that
somebody put her in that manner when after undressing her and in uh doing you know confusing the crime scene that she
was just left that way that it was not intentional the way that she was found yeah it's it it's weird and and this
door I mean this perpetrator this uh manure soaked Wing maggot did he did he do a drawing on the door or not do we
well we don't know and to be honest with you I don't I could not confirm if that
story is in fact true that they the investigators actually removed the door so without being able to confirm that I
wanted to make sure we included it because I find it to be interesting an interesting portion of the investigation
if it did occur but without knowing that they even right without even knowing that it did happen it it's tough to
speculate why they would have would have removed it yeah and you would think at some point maybe they would even release
the drawing to see if anybody recognize that kind of artwork anywhere but you would think that if there's some kind of
satanic drawing that that leans all the other evidence towards that but again is that to throw people
off the scent or is that some legitimate piece of evidence we should be looking at well my whole thing regarding that
door is I lean toward the thought if it was removed that it was removed because of the method of how they they got in
through the door the killer got in through the door less likely than a drawing because I think that this this
investigation has had it's it's it's been a roller coaster ride there are times when it pops back into the media
and it seems to be a very active investigation I think that at some point if there was a drawing they would say
there was a drawing they wouldn't tell us what the drawing was or you know go into detail about it but I think they
could clear that up because we have the investigators publicly speculating on to
as to the reasons why the clothing was removed and if the body was ped so if there was some type of drawing or
graffiti that was left on that door I think they would know why the clothing was removed and the motivation behind
the murder and maybe the Breakin altogether do you feel that the removing of the clothes is more towards removing
of evidence 100% like less sexual right 100% I I think that the the clothing was
removed because of evidence I think there's a a decent chance that if a large knife was used in the commission
of this murder we've talked about this many times before a knife is a dangerous weapon not only for the victim but for
the offender because a lot of times the offender will injure themselves in the course of the attack as well well if if
they if they bled onto her clothes or suspected that they may have they removing those clothes would be key then
dumping the the chemical agent on the body to to further degrade any possible evidence and then the burning of the
hair it it's almost to me seems to be very clearly somebody taking a lot of effort to to cover up the crime and and
and to hide evidence because if you kind of picture this you what I try to do sometimes is picture how I think this
could have went down so let's pretend that the door the side door was in fact somebody broke into it right it's very
likely that if somebody went in there with the intention of murder whether it be for revenge or religious purposes or
whatever if they went in there to the church with the purpose of murder or robbery that led to
murder uhuh we know that the front door was found locked it's very likely we know that that she arrived at at her
normal time it's very likely she would have entered the church through that front door the bishop was expecting to
find the front door unlocked it was only when he found it locked that he was alerted that something might be going on
I then think that he noticed that the side door was obvious L broken into and I think what could have happened here is
we may have an a killer that knew she would be alone in the church at that time and broke into the church earlier
much like we had the uh Missy beavers case where the the killer broke into the church before the victim arrives right
she's now in the church the offender attacks her kills her locks the front door to buy time to to do all these
other methods of the clothing the cleaning agent the burning of the hair to remove evidence from the crime scene
well again you go back to the knife being dangerous to the victim but also dangerous to the murderer so if the
murderer bleeds onto the victim's clothes then that would give reason to remove the clothes and it would give
reason to remove the panties and I'm I'm going to stick on that for going to come
back to that but also maybe there was blood and the hair therefore you dump a cleaning agent you then burn the hair
now you're trying to burn evidence because I would say the removing of the clothes is to cover
evidence but the fact that her underwear was taken to me that leans sexual that this guy's going to go home
and you know become a sausage milker but the the braw and panties being taken to
me well that's that's certainly a possibility I mean BTK there there are other individuals that that do that
exact thing because you like I said I mean but we don't know what they're trying to cover up right we don't know
why they're taking the clothes because it's possible that they bled on her or or whatever and then just
thought well if I'm going to take the clothes to cover up evidence I take all the clothes right and and potentially
confuse the crime scene yeah you know confuse the investigators as to what it is that they're actually looking at and
I think that whoever did this from from the evidence that's been made public yeah if that was their
intention they did a good job because it doesn't appear that that well as of 2009
I will say it didn't appear that the investigators at the time had a clear understanding of what the motive was
behind this murder yeah and one thing I do want to point out though too is that Carol
Daniels she put up one hell of a fight one hell of a struggle she was fighting for her life and defended herself to the
best of her ability and I say that because I think that that's where the offender that the
killer may have thought that there's a there's a u potential for a lot lot of evidence that they could have left
behind because the struggle was so was such such a tough one and so you you wonder where you go okay is this just
some really sick individual that's going to take all of the clothing for whatever
purposes later mhm or is this someone that's just really careful that in that moment is able to be overly cautious
I've already risk risked further detection by staying here longer to remove this piece and that piece why not
just take it all so I don't have to get home and and worry what they're going to
find at the crime scene yeah which makes you think that it's premeditation and if
there premeditation then it's somebody that she knew again we see that a lot of times
when there's a knife involved and especially like take the OJ Simpson trial or the OJ Simpson case and almost
decapitation and a lot of people point that out to be some kind of Rage again making it
personal um this is it's very difficult if if you really wanted to okay let's pretend that this is a premeditated
murder or a premeditated crime that that the offender knew would lead to a murder
MH that you could really I believe narrow your sus suspect pull significantly because that would it
would have to be somebody that either a knew her routine and knew what would be going on that day or B had a very good
understanding of that church and its operations and and how many people were coming in and out at that time of day
well it's difficult to know when they get Collections and when they cuz sometimes churches will get collections
for multiple days and then do a deposit and then so then you wonder was there a big
donation of of some kind that she told somebody about and then they went oh well you need to
deposit that and then she goes oh well we haven't deposited it yet and that becomes your motivation so here's some
speculation that I put in to this if it were not I don't know the workings of this situation but the retired Bishop
that showed up that day my first thought had he not been retired and knowing that this was a regular
meeting but it didn't occur every Sunday right my first thought was is that when
Pastor Daniels is supposed to turn over Monies to the bishop and that somebody would have known that about the church
and thought well this is when the this is when the money is at its highest right before it's going to be turned in
right so that's the most opportune time if I'm looking for the most amount of money with him being retired I don't
know that that would have been the situation but this was some kind of regular scheduled meeting right so I do
want to Circle back to Robert Richardson who we discussed earlier he is also known as the Florida kid for those of
you that like nicknames this is the man who came forward several days after Pastor Daniel's murder to inform police
that he had seen the killer leaving the church covered in blood he did add some pieces to the
story Richard also said that someone had been prowling around the church in the days before the crime and that he in
fact warned Pastor Daniels about this okay hold on because it seems like a lot of details of the day of and
days before and that seems a little suspicious to me like why wouldn't he have come forward
earlier that's why I really suspect that Richardson was just looking for the reward money
okay and what I mean by don't think he's involved in any no I think I think this
is a dude that probably has fallen on hard times and he saw this and and probably wanted to help in some way but
he saw this or heard this on the street and heard that there was a large reward and thought you know what I'll I'm going
to go up and say that I saw somebody running from the church and then when they catch this person months from now
they're going to have to give me the reward right because I came forward and and I gave them what I claimed I saw now
regarding Robert Richardson many people believe that Richardson himself is a strong
suspect yeah well he seems like a real turtle buner so well another potential suspect is one Michael Hinton Jr Mr
Hinton has a history of drug abuse and a past conviction for a violent crime this
is first-degree rape of a minor under 14 years old now his connection to the case
is this hinton's mother was a co-founder of Christ holy Sanctified church and was
a close friend of Pastor Daniels some have speculated that after his mother passed away that she may have left the
bulk of her estate to Pastor Daniels and or the church possibly enraging her son
right but I do want to be very very clear about this next point no solid evidence of this has ever
been uncovered this is just P pure speculation right nobody has there's no paper trail to
suggest that his mother did in fact leave money to Daniels or to the church and while we're on the topic about the
you know the church and its money if if you didn't know the church by just based off of appearance
in in the location this is not a church that I would anticipate would be holding
a lot of money no no no okay um one of the more popular online theories states that Pastor Daniels was murdered as some
kind of work of a serial killer and and this the online theory is very specific serial killer Israel Keys oh yeah so
according to keys he committed crimes all over the United States and he explained to law enforcement after he
was caught that his work as a construction contractor enabled him to move around frequently without suspicion
Keys would monitor natural disasters like floods tornadoes and hurricanes and then respond to the affected areas to
bid on jobs to bid on work right just three months before Pastor Daniel's murder anad Darko was hit by a series of
heavy storms and tornadoes so this could certainly have provided keys with a reason to be in the
area also worth noting though Keys was reported to have um several satanic themed
tattoos so yeah that I mean that's a very interesting Theory there he and and we know Keys is a giant turtle boner
anyways so well and he also admittedly used chemicals at crime scenes to destroy potential forensic evidence so
have they done any DNA testing or fingerprints CU it's I'm assuming his DNA is now in the system well remember
OSBI they couldn't find any fingerprints or DNA at the scene they were searching for those two
items and they they very quickly figured out that they didn't have either of that
again again another reason why they' take the door though right because right if if you have all the all the clothes
are gone the hair is burnt you know there's cleaning solution all over the body then you go okay well we know they
went through this door so let's just take the door and test every part of it mhm and you know that's
frustrating so one issue I have to present regarding Keys as a as a good suspect yeah okay so let's keep in mind
first of all what is the math that he was there at that time and this particular
individual was killed and he he didn't know this victim right there's nothing to suggest that he knew her knew the
area knew the church but he's a monster man yes he's definitely a monster but but right there that's quite the stretch
already then on top of that Keys seems to only have targeted white victims yeah and in in in his
cases the female victims were violently sexually assaulted yeah and his crimes were largely sexually motivated and none
of Key's known crimes bear any sort of religious Hallmark either so it doesn't seem to fit his
Mo right but but I think any killer that has a bigger number of kills there's going to be some outliers
MH so possibly and then again then it's like well the taking of the clothes possibly could become sexual at that
point mhm some other newsworthy items regarding this case uh I found this particularly interesting one Reverend
said that the murder helped to motivate him to get a concealed carry license Reverend Brian ball says he sometimes
carries his weapon during his sermons and regularly carries when he is alone at the church in which he works it
depends on uh what kind of church you are the pastor of but uh but I think yeah if you're going into buildings that
are as big I mean this church was small but think about some of the churches that these pastors and Priests have to
go into by themselves and there's multiple entrance ways and exit way exit ways and there's probably not a ton of
security guards all the time probably more you know security guards at the bigger churches like during business
hours there might be a couple but um they're they're there a lot by themselves alone well and you have
several different kinds of churches some that are in troubled areas and they lock
their doors and some that are in troubled areas and they leave the doors open because they're there for the
community right so that really puts someone who's really just trying to do really good work as a potential victim
When anybody could just walk through that door and be one-on-one with somebody I actually I applaud this move
I think that you know you say what it depends on what kind of church that that you're running whether you should
conceal and carry or not I think I think an American Church you conceal and carry
no it it was a bad joke but I was you know cuz you know if you go to a Baptist Church they're up and singing and and
vibrant you know and if you go to like a Catholic Church they're kind of like kneeling and sitting and kind of boring
that was a bad joke well some other newsworthy items since uh we have the church this actual church was torn down
in 20 0 just months after the murder and in its place a memorial to Pastor Daniels was put up uh we should also
note that the FBI got involved almost immediately in this case and then we have Dr kly Trant and I I don't know if I'm
saying the name correctly my my handwriting scribbled on this note here this is the doctor that performed the
autopsy this individual was fired and actually sued in 2010 not in relation to this crime not in relation to this case
but I think it's something did you say the name was kly Trant T it looks like I wrote t r a n
t okay not Coy Malik not Coy Malik no um and then we have this situation which I
find incredibly interesting in 2012 Daniel's mother Daniel's mother who was then 85 years young God bless her Eda
Dunlap said one thing that has not been discussed is that her daughter's purse and briefcase were missing from the
church Dunlap said that she has heard nothing from law enforcement in several months quote I haven't heard a thing not
one single thing she said no one seems to be doing anything and this is this too is interesting Dunlap said the only
clue that her daughter provided before her death was that two people would often come to the church when she was
there quote two men she said would come to her church all of the time one would sit in the back and one would go to the
piano and she told them that they would have to be saved or they could not come and play the piano anymore now she goes
on to say that she never asked her daughter what the names were of these individuals and says to this very day it
it really bothers her and she says I often worry and wonder about those two people she did go on to say in this same
interview that she is confident that the crime will eventually be solved she says
she's got a feeling that the person is going to come forward and confess at some point well I think that her gut
feeling I think for whatever reason I think the universe gives us answers sometimes that we need and this gut
feeling that these two boys that were coming into the church or important means something but I also
think the gut feeling that she had that this will be solved the information that
came out in 2012 kind of points to this idea that it's going to be solved at some point
yeah so there's been a lot of things that have come about in this case since 2012 since that interview with with
Daniel's mother and the first thing is that investigators eventually did release the surveillance video to the
public which does show something suspicious the security cameras at the nearby convenience store captured a
blurry white figure leaving the vicinity of the church at the time of the crime now I want to be clear about something
when we say blurry white figure I've watched this video from time you know multiple times it's a good distance away
it's almost like you're seeing like a like a ghost or something like it's right you know if picture picture you're
watching something in black and white and all you can tell is that there's something lighter than its surroundings
and it's a human form moving so you're not you're not getting any description of this individual of of the person
leaving the church so it's very low qual quality video this prevented investigators from
making any type of identification on who this person is but what's interesting is
what the video does show what you can depict from the video and that is that there are several people out on the
streets and nearby when this person is fleeing the area right so you have several potential witnesses that were
captured by the cameras now and these these people are closer and and and much more detectable where they may have been
able to identify some of these people and then speak with them yeah what's sad is in a lot of these areas that have
high crime um the people don't trust the cops so they don't come forward with information so what we end up learning
from this is that according to the district attorney he says quote there are a lot of people out at that time
logic says somebody saw something well it took a long time but people started to talk and some of them were talking to
the authorities the da says quote they were hearing the scuttlebutt around town they know who did this people were
saying it was two people da Hicks says the two in question were violent drug dealers and people were afraid to come
forward Hicks says investigators considered several motives through the years eventually they were calling it a
foiled robbery where the suspects likely looking for drug money came into the church and killed Daniels in 2015 a
woman offered a potential break in the case she actually witnessed a Suspect with a black blouse and a knife that had
blood on it and it was around the time of Pastor Daniel's murder da Hicks says The Woman Led investigators to a shed
located behind a home in anad Darko she advised that those items were taken into
the shed and burned okay so we have a witness that comes forward it says I I saw somebody
that should be suspected of this crime right saw them with the murder weapon saw them with items that I believe were
taken from the church and then burned in the shed she shows the investigators where the shed is the problem is we're
now 6 years later we're now 6 years after the fact they search that shed they can't come up with any evidence
from that shed to present uh to build a case against this individual so not only
did that search come up empty the woman the witness passed away just days later after giving investigators that
information now I believe that she was able to name this suspect it wasn't just I saw
somebody that looked like this going in the shed I believe was able to name them
because we do have a report that says the OSBI polygraphed several witnesses and the suspects themselves and neither
offered a confession so da Hicks says it seems in regards to this case it seems like every
time we take a step forward we're taking two steps back in 2017 at the request of
Da Hicks a multi-count grand jury took up the case but then another setback the main suspect who was Denise Darnell
Cooper died of cancer before Grand jurors could hear her testimony Hicks knew he wouldn't get an indictment and
now they would have to find another Avenue to prosecute suspect number two at the proceedings other possible
Witnesses were called this included then prisoner Kevin Mayhan but he like others
before him offered nothing of value now I wonder why he specifically mentioned I wonder if he's actually
suspect number two yeah because they never name well to where I could find suspect number two but they specifically
mention him as possible witness was called before the grand jury he said nothing to them right or he's a prisoner
informant right mhm yeah could be a a jail house snitch or something right right um so when asked uh when the da
was asked he did say he thinks this cold case will be solved at some point hick said quote I look at it this way it is
solved my question is will we be able to bring Justice bring it to Justice and he says
I'm not going to stop trying the DA's task force investigators are still working the case All Those Who Loved
Carol Daniels are still searching for justice anyone with information is asked to call the OSBI tip line at 1
800522 8017 or email tips OSBI o.gov and a quick quote from Bishop Wilson quote I want them to remember
Carol was a very faithful lady and she was a very sweet lady and she's somebody everybody should have gotten to know
I just remember a very ambitious sweet [Music] lady this week we have some recommended
listening for everybody out there because when we were doing research for this case this week's case it reminded
Us of three different cases that we've covered before and I think that you'll find some very interesting similarities
between those three cases in this one one is Missy beaver's case also we have Todd kab the real estate serial killer
and we also have the case called the devil did it and those are from 2018 and from 2017 for our back catalog
download the Stitcher app for free and you can listen to episode one two episode now all for free on the Stitcher
app and check out on Stitcher premium our weekly show called off the Record where we do updates and talk about true
crime documentaries and a bunch of nonsense yes it's a show about nothing uh also we want to give a shout out to
our friends at Looney and Rue and I want to make sure I spell that in case I'm saying it wrong it's Lu u n i and r o o
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or I will post a picture of these awesome callar on our Instagram page and we can't wait for you to come back and
join us next week until then be good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause]
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Who Crucified the Pastor ////// 298

Part 1 of 1

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August 23rd, 2009 a beloved Pastor was murder inside a small church in Anadarko, Oklahoma. Pastor Carol Daniels was a champion for the helpless and the hopeless. She served God and her community, offering goodwill to all. This was a brutal and horrific crime. The early reports stated her body was posed, signifying a crucifixion. Nic & The Captain discuss the unsolved murder of a very faithful and sweet lady. Beer of the Week - OK Pils by Anthem Brewing Garage Grade - 3 and 3/4 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

Pastor Carol Daniels was murdered in her church, leading to an ongoing investigation with multiple suspects and community impact.

Key points

Community Mourns. A thousand people gather to say goodbye to Pastor Daniels, remembered for her kindness.
Pastor Carol Daniels Murder. A beloved pastor is found dead in her church, shocking the community.
Investigation Unfolds. Details emerge about the brutal murder, raising questions about the motive and the killer.
Richardson's Emotional Revelation. Richardson shares the pain of losing his pastor, expressing deep sorrow.
Contradictions in Richardson's Story. Richardson's conflicting accounts raise questions about his credibility.
The Mystery of the Missing Clothes. The pastor's clothes were taken, leading to speculation about the killer's motives.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

There's absolutely no logic other than that person didn't know the Lord Jesus Christ.

Comment on the senselessness of the crime.

5:16WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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