Ryan Ferguson /// Part 2 /// 117 | Forensic Files

when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details dreaming of
overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've
tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are game changers dive into
25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime
membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50%
[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host Nick and while you're at work doing 9 to5 This Guy's in the garage cold kicking it live
he is the captain and it's enough to drive me crazy if I let it it's good to be seen and it's good good to see you
thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend thanks for telling your [Music]
mother tonight we are drinking bobber logger by the brilliant mines over at logboat Brewing Company and beautiful
Columbia Missouri garage grade let's go four and a quarter bottle caps out of five bobber is an unfiltered logger
brewed with inspiration from pale German loggers and the Noble Hops provide a little bitterness in my favorite part
bob has a crisp clean finish and this cup of inspiration was brought to us by These Fine people first up we have we
have princess Jenny from the FB and the LI I'm not sure what the FB is but Li has got to be Long Island so there you
go next up a big big thank you to Candace and Joel and Little Rock Arkansas Candace and Joel say rock your
jib well they're kind of getting aggressive with the jib next we have Shannon up in beautiful Minneapolis
Minnesota like your jib we got Peter and hickton Wisconsin remember we said according to the USA Today Wisconsin has
several of the drunkest cities in the US OFA so of course they get my love and respect so a tip of the cap to you my
friend Peter and hickton well we're coming after you Wisconsin Parts Unknown raise your glasses unite speaking of
Parts Unknown we have Dolores yeah well maybe Dolores you can start drinking a little more pull your weight around here
next we have Jill who's got the cupcake Blues in Omaha and last but not least we
have Julie who says cheers from Columbus wait for it Captain wait for it it's Columbus Georgia our sister city n get
out of here with that nonsense oh IO we want to thank everybody who purchased our bonus show The Brick of family
murders if you haven't checked that out you can do that by going to the iTunes Store or our store Page at true Crim
garage.com and if you'd like to follow us on social media Snapchat Instagram untapped all that stuff you can find us
with the handle at True Crime garage that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
let's talk some true crime uh they told me that I was being arrested for a homicide what went
through your mind at that point I mean I knew I had never heard anyone so I wasn't really too worried
about it believe you testified on Direct you thought Chuck was an odd man yes you think that's
funny I think he's an odd man yes you think that's funny it's not funny okay I just thought you were smiling I thought
you thought it was funny no it's not a funny well I mean this is America if you want to laugh you can no it's not a
laugh never thought i' would be arrested for a crime I didn't commit would you would you believe you'd be arrested for
a crime you didn't commit I didn't commit one neither did I ne neither did [Music]
I all right part two of the Ryan Ferguson case yeah well there you go Captain you get to hear a few Snippets
and little pieces of the trial itself I tell you I tell you what I found parts of this trial to be incredibly
fascinating right there in that clip you are hearing the prosecutor this is Kevin
crane with some back and fourth while Ryan Ferguson is on the stand and that's that's Kevin's kind of loud booming
voice that he has that's perfect for courtroom setting kind of really trying to get under the skin of Ryan Ferguson
kind of picking on him a bit there and I'll tell you what the the best way I could describe Uh Kevin crane the
prosecutor he's arrogant yeah but you know the thing about him that that I found strange was that he he almost
appears to be like an actor portraying a prosecutor in a movie or a TV show like
the the way he speaks the when he chooses to raise his voice and and and the way he kind of gestures at things
and struts around the courtroom you're right he's he's very arrogant arrogant but I get the I get the it's like I'm
looking at an actor playing a role not a real life person yeah he's a douchebag playing an [ __ ] so what ends up
happening here is that we have the police and the prosecution they end up offering Chuck Ericson a plea deal and
exchange for his testimony against Ferguson at Ryan's trial the trial doesn't take place until 2005 now along
with Chuck Ericson's testimony we also have Jerry Trump remember he's the janitor working at the Tribune that
night now he States and he testifies at trial that he saw Chuck Erikson and Ryan
Ferguson at the scene he says that those are the two men that he said jumped up from behind Kent's vehicle when he
called out into the parking lot that night now how does how does Jerry Trump arrive at this situation because he
wasn't able to identify them early on in the investigation right right and like you stated you know detective said this
guy's not a credible eyewitness yes and so the thing here is what what Jerry Trump says is that while he was in jail
on unrelated charges his wife had sent him a news article about the crime and he claims that that on that newspaper he
saw photos of Chuck Ericson as well as Ryan Ferguson and immediately recognized them as being the two men that he had
saw standing by the vehicle that evening now so on the witness stand we have this other weird situation where we
have Chuck Ericson who was unable to give a detailed description of the crime or the murder during the the confession
quote unquote confession portion of the questioning and interrogating uh however
once he gets on the stand we see a very different Chuck Erikson we see a guy that is he's able to give an extremely
detailed description of the events of that night as well well studied yeah as well as a extreme extremely detailed
description of Ryan Ferguson strangling Kent heol might have been a you know a drug user but he you know he has a high
level intelligence so he also liked to just he would just seem like he would like to argue like these intellectual
battles with the lawyers mhm one thing I found strange though when they show um Chuck Erikson walking being escorted
into the courtroom did you see that part where it looks like he almost turns and
kind of stares down Ryan Ferguson like he like he tries to stare him down like he he goes out of of his way to move his
head all the way to his left to kind of just and later on there would be claims that like there'd be claims by Chucky
saying hey uh a lot of the reason to get him to talk about or you know not to confess but to testify against Ryan was
because all these people were saying all these rumors around him were saying Ryan
was going to throw him under the bus mhm so you know I'm going to throw you under
the bus first so maybe that's why he was staring him down like hey I got you right now the defense they countered
that uh you know all of the evidence found at the crime scene that night it pointed elsewhere it did not point to
Ryan Ferguson uh none of the hair none of the blood or the fingerprints samples collected at the crime scene that night
they they did not match Ryan Ferguson or Chuck Erikson as a fact and well there's
seven fingerprints right on the car mhm seven fingerprints on on Kent's Carr and
um none of them matched they didn't ma match Erikson they didn't match Ferguson right and there were no traces of of the
victim's blood uh found in the vehicle in Ryan Ferguson's vehicle that he was driving that night of the murder yeah so
it basically comes down to that there's zero evidence against Ryan and there's two witnesses that weren't credible to
begin with that are now somewhat credible I guess and they testify and Ryan actually gets on the stand which is
pretty unheard of in a murder trial and he's convicted and he's sentenced to what 30 years four I believe 40 years
total uh he gets convicted of second deegree murder and robbery now the thing here is though having no evidence of
robbery right and having watched portions of the trial I will admit here captain that seeing Chuck Ericson on the
stand if that is if and I imagine his testimony took took a long time because they have him acting things out they're
going over question over and over again the thing here is seeing him on the stand you you look like you're you're
watching a man that seems 100% certain in everything that he is telling you and not only that he's 100% certain that he
himself is guilty and this is why he's come forward and he's telling on this Ryan Ferguson character so I can see how
the jury was swayed in that way even despite the lack of evidence but you would think
there would be some physical evidence well I think the thing that's hard for us to understand is when you watch a
trial we go how could they find him guilty well remember this jury didn't know him they didn't see the little dat
line Montage of him growing up and how great of a kid he was and how amazing his calf muscles were right they don't
see that so all they're seeing is a guy that they don't know and maybe he doesn't I don't think to me as as far as
like Ryan Ferguson on the stand he comes off as somebody that is malicious enough
to do uh what Chucky is saying but Chucky Chucky seems a little odd and when he's making these actions and and
showing how well this is how he punched him and this is and then this is how R Ryan strangled him he looks a little
crazy yeah so you know as as as far as the jury's concerned why wouldn't they believe that this guy is Poss you know
this guy possibly had something to do with the murders cuz he's a little nutcase right mhm well ultimately we get
like we said Ryan gets 40 years in prison um we have Chuck Erikson who gets 20 I believe 25 years was part of his
plea agreement with the prosecutor the problem here is Captain there are some real problems with this story and I'm
talking about the story that the police and the prosecutor put together and supplied to the jury to to ultimately
get this conviction so let's go through some problems with the story okay okay so first off now this is a this is
according to Freer Ryan ferguson.com uh so I could might be a little biased I could see if some people would think
it's a little biased but this statement would be verified later and we'll get into that later okay um so but but the
first thing that we have here is that the the bar itself Remember by georgees that's uh the captain's favorite bar um
by George's by George my favorite bar according to employees of the bar as well as a city ordinance and state
statute um that bar closed at 1:30 a.m. on that on that Wednesday becoming Thursday morning right okay so so that
goes with Ryan's story that goes exactly with Ryan's story he says we were at the
bar till 1:30 and was exactly right I drove Chuck home and then I went to my house now keep in mind that goes
completely against Chucky's story now you got me saying Chucky goes against Chuck's story because Chucky it goes
against it in two manners right first off they weren't at the bar as late as chuck had originally stated and second
of all they would not be able to come back to the bar at 2:45 a.m. and then stay for an additional hour to an hour
and a half dancing and drinking and having a good time because according to the state law that bar was not open at
that time at least proving that one of the statements in his story is a lie mhm the next thing that we have to point out
is Ryan's phone records we touched upon this in the first episode MH okay now so
going through this Ryan Ferguson he was he was absolutely on his phone his phone
was being used between 1:41 a.m. and 2:09 a.m. this now this does not entirely discredit uh Chuck's statements right
because Chuck does state that after they left the bar Ryan was on his phone right
but it does confirm it reconfirms Ryan's statements you're exactly right it goes
more toward the way of Ryan's statements have having been true that he went home
he was on his phone then he went to bed okay so now we have Dallas mallerie remember we talked about Dallas mallerie
he was the play Play Slightly older gu guy you know a little bit older than the guys uh Ryan and Chuck and he was the
one that they saw at the intersection that night shortly after the murder so Dallas m is the only person who can
cooporate any part of Chuck's story mhm now in December of 2004 okay that that was what they got
from an affidavit in December of 2004 he later then stated that he was not at he was not at that intersection
that night he had not sign seen either Ryan or Chuck that night furthermore we have proof that Dallas
mallerie did not have a valid driver's license at the time or a vehicle he didn't own a vehicle he he had had a
omvi or DUI whatever they call it in Missouri and he had lost his license due to that and I believe he sold his car
either because he couldn't use it or to pay for some of his legal fees right so he doesn't have access to a vehicle he
doesn't have a driver's license at that time now furthermore well the furthermore and
furthermore the thing that happens here is well remember Chuck was able to state
that Dallas was wearing a police officer's uniform that night for a Halloween party yeah well the problem
with that is police say well there's your proof that that Dallas mallerie saw those guys at that intersection the
problem with that is is later the Ferguson family is able to prove that Dallas mallerie and Chuck Erikson were
at one of the same Halloween parties earlier that night that chuck could be confused and he actually saw him at a
Halloween party I believe there's a photo of the two of them uh we have Dallas mallerie standing behind Chuck
Ericson and mallerie is in full police uniform outfit right so yeah he black you know Chucky blacks out a bunch of
blow and and and a bunch of other drugs and he he blacks out but he does remember seeing this guy at some point
Dallas and he saw him at some point in a police outfit so that goes with his story but also proves that it could have
happened at a different time the other thing that's interesting is the fact that you know he claims that Dallas
stopped at a red light well those lights aren't red or green at that time of day
they're flashing red or flashing yellow no they're flashing yow yellow so they're not a cycling light right but
what I'm saying is at if it at an intersection you'll have one section that's flashing yellow and the other
intersection normally flashes red mhm so one will have to proceed with caution the other one might have to stop
depending on the traffic the the way that Dallas was going quote unquote is he would have been faced with a yellow
light so he never would have had to stop yeah I believe so again the these are multiple
sources saying that the story is [ __ ] we also have shaa ort and we talked about her uh working at the
Tribune that night now she is called to testify but she never specifically is asked did you see Chuck Ericson and Ryan
Ferguson there that night in the parking lot and she what well and what she told
the cops and what she told prosecution is that those were not the the two guys that she saw that night yeah and she
would later State that's why Kevin crane did not specifically ask me that question because he knew I was going to
say no those weren't the two guys that I saw right but doesn't the defense get to
like you know have interviews with these Witnesses and talk to them and and so they would know that if I ask her on the
stand can you point to the person that you saw that night in the courtroom that she would say and I can't cuz they're
not here right that would have been huge for the defense it would have been a big
step in the right direction for and and they talked a lot about how like he would uh slow draw everything took
forever well it did and you know what I think a big part of that was though Captain lack of
preparation what it was uh I think it I think it's partly that but I also think it's a bit of a surprise I think that
you had Erikson on the stand and you had Trump on the stand that were saying much
different things much more detailed things pointing every arrow at your client and I think it took him by
surprise I think it took the a lot of this information you know what I mean you're
handed a lot of this information uh you're also we also see a situation where they were not handed some
information that could have help their defense as well so I don't know that I want to go out there and say you're
handed this information no but what I'm saying is that you have a list of these people and
and you can have somewhat of idea of what they're going to say and you're listening you get to cross-examine
afterwards so you know what I mean so you do have time to prepare as it's happening it's not like you're the first
one asking questions is what I'm saying MH yeah and then we also have the the possibility of a potential other suspect
now remember we talked about we went through the detailed accounts of that night before we talked about a man named
Michael Boyd um well he's not really investigated he's entered interviewed but not what I would consider
investigated well he should have been investigated because he was the last person to talk with with K so yeah as
far as we know that he he's admitting that he was either the last or second to last person to talk to Kent height hold
that evening and if you go by his timeline compared to when the 911 call is placed that almost puts him standing
next to or right by Kent at the time of his murder are very close to it well yeah and look there's there's a ton of
evidence and ton of speculation that's like they got the wrong man but the fact of the matter is he's convicted and he's
in jail and he's sentenced to 40 years now Ryan Ferguson will eventually get to appeal this conviction and they will
have another trial some new things come to light at this trial right but unfortunately we have a situation where
the verdict the guilty verdict is not overturned with this first appeal yeah even though they brought up you know
tons of evidence tons of evidence that shows that the the detectives in the defense didn't interview I think 11
witnesses that should have been called in the first trial right yeah and then in 2009 we have uh a new character comes
into the fold right we have high-profile Chicago attorney Kathleen zelner uh she
decides to take on Ryan's case uh pro bono and in 2012 well her hard work and her
investigator's hard work it pays off because at this point both Chuck Erikson and Jerry Trump basically the two that
single that together took down Ryan Ferguson and got that guilty verdict even though there was no physical
evidence they got them to recant their trial testimony in statements given to both zelner and her in investigator no
yeah and just to show you how powerful this is that if you do recant especially cuz you were in a trial you can be
facing perjury charges and so you could actually do time in prison for this right so as far as like a as far as like
the outsider's eyes to me this recanning your statement actually holds a bunch of
weight to me MH because you're possibly facing you know jail time well zelner she files and she gets a Abus Corpus
hearing so during this hearing this is when both Chuck Ericson and Jerry Trump admitted that they lied in Ryan
Ferguson's trial now Chuck Ericson claimed that the prosecutor this is Kevin crane that he had pressured him
into implicating Ryan uh Chuck testified in the habus hearing that he does not remember the evening of the murder
because of his heavy drug and alcohol use that night and that he did in fact black out now we also have the situation
where you see Chuck Chuck he comes forward and he originally says that Ryan had nothing to do with this that he that
Chuck was the one that that single-handedly carried out this murder right but in this hearing he states that
he has no memory of that evening just like he told the police in his original statement now we have Jerry Trump okay
who recants as well his story about wife sending him the newspaper and him seeing
the pictures of the two boys in there uh he actually says that that it was he saw
it wasn't his wife that sent him those the newspaper that he actually didn't see that newspaper until he was at
Crane's office and crane had showed him the photos from the newspaper and basically which is basically stating
that the prosecutor is helping me create the story to be eyewitness and that's illegal mhm yeah and and like we said
crane was in some of his own legal troubles at the time uh probably thought that you know I I don't want to pick a
fight with the prosecutor with this very aggressive prosecutor um and you know stating that
crane told him something like it would be helpful uh to the state it would be helpful for Jerry Trump if he could
identify the two guys at the crime scene well and then Michael Boyd's going to come back into the story as well this is
the coworker that claims that he talked to Kent right you know seconds before he's murdered and uh his story has
changed like five times yeah zelner uh Ferguson's attorney will point out you know to to the to the trial that that we
have these conflicting stories that have changed time and time again as well as she's going to point out that timeline
that we talked about earlier that because of some of Boyd's own words that places him with Kent heol at the time
and these are her words at the time of his murder well weren't they also able to present evidence that that prove that
there was evidence withheld from the defense correct yes this would have been some of those eyewitnesses that you
stated that that were called in this hearing um one of them being Ken Kim Bennett uh she was a person that was at
the bar that night at by George's that night um the prosecution did not tell the defense about speaking with Kim Kim
Bennett now Kim Ben why did they not tell them because Kim Bennett told the prosecutor that she was at the bar that
night and she left sometime between 1:15 and 1:30 a.m. and during that time that
she left she saw Ryan Ferguson and Chuck Erikson get into Ryan's vehicle and drive off at that at that same time
right which would go with Ryan Ferguson's story yeah the other person that they didn't that they failed to
tell the defense about was a guy by the name of Mike shook well who is he well he's very important to this case in my
opinion because he is an employee at the by George's uh bar and uh he testifies at this hearing that the bar in fact did
close at 1:30 a.m. and that he did not let anybody back into the bar after the bar had closed this again would disprove
Chuck Ericson's story yeah well let's call what it is you know Chucky and the police's story mhm so now Captain we
also have shaa ort um and we talked about her quite a bit so I won't go through the whole thing but during this
hearing we do get get to hear her State why she thinks um that she not only why she thinks that she wasn't asked to
directly identify Ryan Ferguson because we know that answer but furthermore she states that that her interaction with
the prosecutor Kevin crane she found him to be what she called threatening uh that he constantly was
asking her to implicate Ryan Ferguson as being one of the people that she had seen in the parking lot the night of the
murder and she time and time again would not and he became very aggressive and almost threatening to her right and like
she stated from the beginning telling the police officers telling the prosecution that's not the guys I saw
that night not the guys I saw mhm and then you got this prosecutor you know the one that's a douchebag playing an
[ __ ] being aggressive and and basically threatening hey you need to say that this was Ryan and she wouldn't
do it it's weird to me that he would even put her on the stand but um well but who knows luckily for for Ryan that
the uh this conviction is eventually vacated uh this would be in 201 late 2013 uh he was soon after released from
prison and exonerated of all charges yeah and this this was a lengthy you know we kind of skipped over it but if
we went through every single trial and every single appeal there was a bunch of failed attempts and probably a lot of
that had to do with the fact that the prosecutor became a judge MH and this is one of his big cases and that would go
against the whole system anding the whole system is bad that the cops are bad the prosecutors bad and now the
prosecutors is a judge so therefore the system uh is is failed yeah so and I'll tell you what I I know that the
conviction is overturned but we're not going to finish there because what I want to do next Captain after this beer
break let's go through this because what happens here is we have a conviction overturned now this presents a whole
bunch of other questions you know what really did happen that night so let's let's answer those questions after this
quick beer break this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garod to get 10% off your first month that's better help
hp.com garage dreaming of overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from
afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice
feedback technology are gamechangers dive into 25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a
kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to
rosettastone.com now and save 50% % you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get
your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that all right we're back cheers everybody cheers mates cheers so here's
how we're going to do the the second half of this thing now yesterday when I was hanging out in the garage with the
captain I told him you know I'm going to bring with me tomorrow some questions that I kind of just want the two of us
to talk through together want to hear his opinion give my opinion and kind of walk us through this case a bit and
maybe come up with some answers here because with with Ryan Ferguson being let go exonerated now to me there's all
kinds of questions in this case uh but to be fair I should point out that the captain has not been told in advance
about these questions so we're going to I start you off with question number one
Captain umh do you think that Ryan Ferguson actually committed this crime or was involved in this crime but
somehow got lucky and ends up getting off my I don't believe so I think he is a kid of good character not a kid
anymore obviously and there's no physical evidence and so I mean he was convicted on basically two lies mhm that
that's my thoughts on it well I I agree with you uh the the only time I kind of questioned uh his guilt um was like like
what I said with um Erikson's demeanor on the stand I questioned it a little bit but having seen the actual
confession tapes and the interrogation tapes that kind of discredits that 100% but also seeing the composite drawing
that was provided by shaa um it to me it actually looked somewhat like a mashing
if you took if you took Chuck's face and you took Ryan's face and kind of smooshed them together that it would
look somewhat like like the both of them however she outwardly states that these
are not the guys that I saw that night and there's no question in her mind so to me I got to go with what she saying
well when they right but wouldn't they also say I I think the first thing for me that I went oh that's a little odd is
when they claimed that one of the people they saw had an athletic build mhm and a
lot of 17-year-olds are not going to have this noticeably athletic build and Ryan did so that was kind of the first
thing that made me go H and I see your point that Chucky was very convincing on the
stand and that's probably why he was found guilty was based off of Chucky but let's just go with the whole
fact that you know he was coached up by crane he was coached up by the prosecution he was coach coached up from
the beginning when he went to come in and confess he was coached up at the the word go of the confession so yeah of
course he he's expert on what he has had conversations about but these weren't things that actually
happened uh question number two okay uh you know Ryan Ferguson in our opinion Didn't Do It um he's been exonerated I
think rightfully so um but do you think that Charles or Chuck Erikson did have some involvement
or like he did say at one time committed the crime completely by himself if we go
by Ryan Ferguson's timeline which we believe to be true that they left the bar at 1:30 a.m. he was able to return
Chuck to his home and continue on to his own home and get there by 140 then it's
conceivable that chuck could have returned to the parking lot of the Daily Tribune in time to commit the murder
yeah but again with his confession and yeah it's two years later and and Chucky has a drug problem but or had a drug
problem um he might still have one in jail who knows but again lack of lack of evidence physical evidence there you
know there's never any talk about DNA but you would you would think that you'd have at least some kind of DNA on the
belt and and again they're not bringing it up so let's just assume it's not there seven fingerprints on the car not
one of them match Chucky not one of them match Ryan so is it is it possible that
he got dropped off by Ryan and he was in this uh coked out state in this uh alcoholic State and he just went out
looking for more it's possible but again where's the evidence yeah and he doesn't
even you know I said that somewhat the facial thing could look like the composite
drawing but he doesn't physically you know his height and his weight and his build do not match what is described by
Shauna there the person that she describes is several inches taller than him uh several pounds heavier than him
maybe 20 30 pounds heavier than him um and if and his motive doesn't make any sense yeah plus his his what he claims
he was wearing that night does not match the description of the clothing that shaa gives at all um that evening as
well uh the thing here too regarding Chuck like I pointed out in the I don't recall if it was earlier this episode or
if it was late yesterday's episode but the the whole process about the interrogation not drinks so much the
whole process of the interrogation where the the detective wrongfully says that that Kent was hit 15 times with this
object and he gets he gets Chuck to agree to 15 being the number right uh it's obvious to me not only does Chuck
not know how many times Kent was hit with this object neither does the detective so I think that uh that clears
up up Chuck for me again weird with the with no skull fracture that's that's an odd thing to me and when when they're at
trial and Chuck is describing how he hit uh Kent and how how forcefully and how fast he says that he hit him and in that
overhand motion right um I I I struggle to believe that if they were using a tire iron or some kind
of tire changing tool that they got from Ryan's trunk that or that he brought on
his own that hitting with that velocity that that he would not be able to that there would be no skull fracture seems
very strange to me yeah um this is kind of an out of the-box question for you Captain but um do you think that there
is something wrong with Chuck or Charles yes and I don't know chicken or the egg I don't know if it was something
was wrong with him mentally so he was then self-medicating through drugs and alcohol and then that led him to the
point where he's at now cuz he definitely seems a lot clearer these days mhm um but yeah so which one was it
chicken the egg or what you know did he start using drugs and that created some mental problems for him I think he's not
all there yeah I get the vibe that there's some kind of personality or social some kind of disorder there maybe
it's undiagnosed um we do know that the prison system does not do a great job of
checking on people's mental health in situations like that um well and and just being confined to that space is
going to do a number on your mental health anyways and I understand that I'm observing his life on small sample sizes
you know over the course of a period of time over the course of 10 years or so right but what I saw is I'm seeing
almost a different person every time right did you get that Vibe like okay yeah but let's let's be honest I mean
crime would happen when he was 17 he would confess when he was 19 so that's when we'd first start seeing it's 1921
is first trial of Ryan Ferguson so that would be the first time we'd see him and
then you're seeing him later you know the other trials you know three years after that 5 years after that so I mean
you're going from a 19-year-old you know to 20 some year old that that's a whole
different world no and I I I agree and that's why I pointed it out that I'm talking about him over the course of a
period of time because I agree that physically and mentally and emotionally he's changing and adapting uh throughout
the course of time however to me I felt like I was seeing whoever he decided to be or whoever he was told to
be in that moment yeah and meaning when he is interrogated or when he's especially when he's being driven around
and questioned about the locations of things and where they went he to their me he looks like the confused person
that he believed he was right he looked like a blank canvas that knew nothing that had nothing on it and was going to
wait for people to apply their own Impressions when I see him at the trial that you got to admit that's a 180 Dee
change right there it's not just a guy that goes the first trial yeah not just a guy that goes from knowing nothing to
knowing everything there's like a certain amount of hate in his eyes and it almost looks to me like there's
there's hate in his eyes for Ryan Ferguson you know like I said it appeared to me like he kind of tried to
stare him down as he walked into the into the courtroom and as he was sitting there on the stands you see somebody
that's very aggressive he can't wait for the prosecutor to get the words out of the prosecutor's mouth to to start
answering his questions well again but if that speculation is true and what he was saying is they have inmates talking
to him and I wouldn't put it past the cops going hey let's tell some of these inmates that Ryan's going to turn on him
and we're going to get Chucky all nervous right so M yeah maybe it was like you know uh yeah I know we kind of
I kind of got us into this mess and I don't really know what happened that day but uh you want to throw me under the
bus look Chucky is not idiot he he actually seems like he's actually a pretty bright guy he likes to challenge
he likes to debate probably would have made a pretty good lawyer but at the end but at the end of the day he's a little
nuto so that little nuto turned into uh I got to get this guy before he gets me but while he's on stand he you're he
seems like a man of conviction you know what I mean a man that said you know I've done something wrong and this is
the only way I can make it right and I'm I'm going to I'm going to go down fighting if I have to but I'm going to
make this right yeah Chucky is so weird to me cuz one you have this ridiculous story that doesn't make any sense and
you don't even have you don't even have any of the details and then you come forward they hand you the details now
this guy's in jail you're in jail a couple years later you feel so bad because you don't know if Ryan was there
so you put the whole blame on yourself mhm and then that kind of helps out Ryan but at the end of the day neither one of
you probably were there and Ryan Ferguson story is probably true mhm so you know I I feel for the guy because
like I said there is something off there definitely has some intelligence but something is definitely wrong there I
agree and and I'm I'm glad that you saw it too because I was thinking maybe maybe I'm kind of weird and just seeing
something that's not there but I but I saw it again when when he changed his story to that that Chuck was the only
one guilty and then later when he changes his story back to I don't remember anything of that night I swear
when I look at and he says that the final time I see in his eyes and I almost see his face of that of that
19-year-old Boy again of that of that blank canvas that just truly didn't know what was going on and is waiting to be
told what actually happened that night um we should point out though right that that Charles Erikson remains imprisoned
yeah which is it's a crime man it's a crime as as much look Ryan Ferguson is definitely the All-American boy you know
he he's he's a good-look guy he's physically fit apparently his calves are incredible incred incredible caves I
think he does like some Fitness stuff now like sparting races and stuff like that um smart kid uh seemed to always do
the right thing was involved in in athletics and stuff like that and yes Eric got them into this mess but he's
like the Forgotten one oh great we got Ryan out okay that's great but we still have somebody convicted of this murder
and we all know and the system knows that Chucky didn't do this right so that's a crime in itself and then you
got to put on top of that there's a victim in all this right right there's a guy that we we don't know what the
motive of his murder was mhm and it was a vicious murder I mean this guy was held down probably had a foot on his
chest and somebody's choking the life out of him with his own belt mhm and and and and Kent deserv deserves better than
that and yes I'm glad that the justice system uh you know made a wrong a right and yeah I'm sorry that Ryan had to
spend time in jail that's Injustice I believe so but it's Injustice that Chuck's Behind Bars it's an injustice
that we're not investigating the case to solve the murder of Kent yeah and we should point out too that Ryan has said
that he you know he wants to help Chuck or or who's going by Charles now he wants to help Charles with his release
from prison as well even though like you said you know Ryan ends up in prison because of Charles yeah um and you know
he said that he will continue Ryan will continue to fight uh for the innocent people that are in prison including
Charles Ericson one of the things that you can tell that makes Ryan such a good dude is one Trump which lies right um
lies on Jerry Trump lies on the yeah let's not make this point let's not start a fight oh man you don't want that
fight yeah you don't want you want to fight you don't want to fight the man with small hands um oh what I'm saying
though is is he forgives Jerry Trump Jerry Trump has had his uh trials he's you know not a good guy in my anybody
that anybody that is um anybody that has crimes against children I can't have their back but what Ryan says is he can
forgive Jerry for lying he also forgives Chucky so I I think that's a sign of of
a pretty um self- InTune person now I don't think he forgives crane at all but that's just that's my opinion but so I I
think it's good Ryan anybody if you if you're invested in this case at all do as much as you can to help Chucky out
because he's just going to be there well and crane is sort of the Puppet Master right and it's hard to it's really tough
to forgive the Puppet Master you can forgive the puppets but you don't forgive the puppets Master yeah but in
Crane's defense you are handed a case based off of the detectives there is no case um now he should have from the word
go say I'm looking at these tapes and this doesn't line up and no thank you I'm not I'm not running with this case
the cops should have stopped this from from you know two years they had nothing that's fine but but you didn't get
anything afterwards got a bunch of false stuff and when they should just be lined
up taped against the wall and just let me punch their face for a while because they kept on saying stuff like well I'm
not interested in that I'm just interested in the truth no you're not you stupid piece of [ __ ] you're not
interested in the truth what I was saying is it's it should have stopped at the detectives it should have stopped
there and and when they when none of the pieces of the puzzle were fitting you stop and they deserve punched in the
face all right let's let's shift gears here here for a second okay so uh Captain with without naming names or
pointing fingers or or or doing a who done it type thing uh do you think that this was a premeditated murder or do you
think this is you know unplanned uh I don't know if it I don't know either way I don't look because
obviously it was a vicious attack and I don't think that needed you know a vicious attack needs to be planned or
not mhm and also I think the evidence of maybe it's not planned is who would who
would get in an argument or a tussle with a guy and plan on uh you know choking them to death with the guy's own
belt yeah you know I mean that'd be kind of a weird plan to come up with you bring up a very good point there um you
know and to further that point it's you know that you're attacking a large man with an object that we've pointed out
time and time again was not strong enough to create a skull fracture or with with not enough Force to create
some kind of fracture that that seems like you said a bad plan it doesn't seem to be a wellth thought out plan to bring
that kind of weapon there and then um obviously you can't plan on using somebody's belt to strangle them uh you
know especially a man of his size how are you going to get that belt off of him well it's very odd to me that the
police came up with the motive of robbery when there's not really much signs of robbery the way the way that I
understand it is they only came up with the motive of robbery after the fact after having spoken to Charles Erikson
about the crime and why he would have done the crime right but instead of trying to make the pieces of the puzzle
fit they're creating their own pieces yeah and so when they're in the first investigation part of the of the
investigation early in the investigation they don't really have a motive to work
off of uh other than looking for those two quote unquote College age Caucasian males right so what would be some
motives I mean you know maybe he's having an affair with somebody um maybe you know maybe it's maybe it is just
random but like I said there's no sign of of robbery and so you're just going to so the motive is just I was walking
down the street and saw this guy and decided I want to choke him to death with his own belt uh maybe he had a
gambling problem to me the choking the guy to death with his own belt seems very violent very vicious almost like
you're trying like that was a statement piece and so did he I mean he was a sports writer was he into gambling I'm
I'm not for sure well okay so you you brought up motive the problem with motive for me kind of Cycles back into
is this premeditated or unplanned um here's what I think here's what I see anyway
um I I see somebody like you said this this strangling the way that it went down is very vicious so that to me
either points to somebody that had a very deep hatred for this man and wanted to kill him that would imply that it's
premeditated or that this was some kind of Rage that there was some kind of argument or some kind of incident that
took place and it was you know Split Second rage that took this person over and yeah they rageed so hard they didn't
cause a fracture though right and so you know you ask I've asked myself how would
this person come in possession of a belt that was on the man that they attack I've heard Bill Ferguson he
pointed out something uh that was interesting he said that his daughter came up with a theory and remember we
pointed out the size of Kent height hold he was a he was a large man he was not only tall but he was big mhm burly and
the thing is she his daughter said to him you know well maybe you know sometimes with larger people they will
especially men um they will undo their belt uh in certain situations when they're getting ready to sit down we
know that Kent was leaving potentially leaving for the evening he could be driving home maybe he found it
uncomfortable to drive with his belt on and that was something that he typically
did and that would make the belt easy for the person that committed the crime to to take it off
um so that's that's an interesting thought there my my thought too though would be is there a chance that Kent was
looking for a weapon and undid his belt in an attempt to use it as some kind of weapon we know that whoever he was you
know arguing with whoever he's having an incident with or whoever decided to attack him already has a weapon maybe he
feels if I can get a weapon I can better defend myself and removes his own belt or attempts to remove his own yeah or
like you said I mean he's he's just unbuckling his belt to get in his car gets attacked and then just you pulls it
out um but I I don't know the other thing too is like you said we're not going to name
any names but we might as well well we're going to have to Michael Boyd right we have to name Michael Boyd yes
but look here's something that people should take a clue on I think when Ryan was losing all his Appeals they needed
to find the person right yeah they didn't have enough they didn't have enough they couldn't check enough boxes
to get him acquitted on his own that they needed to check the box of oh by the way here's the guy that did
it and I think they went after him and the and the media went after him and yeah he changed some of his stories I
don't know if he's innocent I don't know if he's guilty but here's what I do know
is anything that once Ryan was released anything when they're talking about this
case they don't mention Michael Boyd and I think they do so for probably legal reasons mhm because if you don't have a
bunch of evidence then you can't be naming this guy as this Prime Suspect if he's not well and as we said Michael
Boyd was interviewed but not quote unquote investigated and you know people that don't know much about this case are
going to go well why was he not investigated he was one of the last people to speak with the victim well my
only guess is this is that you know they were told to be looking for two Caucasian guys Michael Boyd is
African-American um therefore and there's only one of him yes and there's only one of him so he doesn't become
their immediate suspect um that's probably why he was not investigated early on now I do want to throw this out
there too at you captain and I'm not going to comment on the competence uh of the police department or the detectives
involved in this case because I I don't have a full understanding of their investigation into the murder of Kent
iol I only have a an understanding of the portions that involve Ryan Ferguson and Charles Ericson right okay so during
that we have two years before we get to those guys now one thing here is we have
a parking lot we have several employees inside the building you know when when you first look at this case if you don't
know anything about it you kind of assume that maybe there's this one dude working all by himself and he walks out
into a dark parking lot in the middle of the night and helping happens to get randomly attacked it's not so much that
we have a building that's got several people in it in a parking lot that has portions that are well lit and we have
two very obvious security cameras on the building right so what that would make one think is well those security cameras
were not working this guy's killed in a parking lot where anybody body inside the building could potentially see the
attack first off anybody Manning those cameras or watching those videos could potentially see or have evidence video
footage of who committed the murder mhm Who would know that those cameras were not working well you would then assume
it would be somebody working in that building yeah cuz they know that the cameras weren't working yeah and I hope
and I don't know that they did or did not and that's why I won't comment on the competence on their competence
regarding this investigation but you have fingerprints you have that hair if those those should be and I hope that
they were tested against employees that worked in that building well and also the belt there's going to be DNA there
you would expect to see some DNA there's at least touch DNA so I I'm hoping that
they they tested that against the emplo the employees that were working that night and have somehow cleared them it'd
be nice to know that if if they've done that um we've not heard you're not going
to you're not going to hear anything about this because there's a guy that sits in jail that's accused of the
murder so this case is closed my friend they're not going to look into it and I'm afraid you might be right on that
and also look it's you know Kent was a chubby white dude you know sports reporter that's the inj there's so many
Injustice here you know like I said uh again we can't we can't speculate on the investigation but they had nothing so
then you get a little and they ran with it but they ran too hard too fast and they didn't do their due diligence and
they didn't VI this as we need Justice we need truth like they said you need truth and then they hand it off to a
prosecutor trying to make a name for himself and all the name you made my friend was [ __ ] stain that's what you
are you're judge shitstain now and then you have two innocent kids that you know
have basically been locked up since they're 19 and then on top of that again if Michael Boyd had nothing to do with
it you have media running his name through the mud and making him look like he's a piece of [ __ ] and we have really
no evidence of that you know cuz did they test his fingerprints did those match was their DNA nobody knows so
that's an injustice and then at the end of the day we got Kent that you know somebody's locked up
for his crime so nobody gives a [ __ ] and and that I think when I first saw a documentary on this or a DAT line
or something on this I was really frustrated but it was only a single you know a Singler frustration
that this innocent kid that could have been me or you or anybody that we grew up with charged with this vicious crime
and then sitting in jail for almost 10 years when they're innocent 10 years of their life being lost and how that
affects their family but now I don't know how how many years later after seeing that documentary it's like my
frustration has grown with the whole that whole system and there needs to be bigger
checks and balances like I said there needs to be if if a detective is going to interrogate if the detective is going
to make up falsities or give out details that they shouldn't give out that you know makes the you know makes the
confession n and void there needs to be better checks and balances yeah and I think that the you
know the defense team should have been able to do a better job of presenting the way that that inter interation went
down to the jury than what they did yeah but again that's n and void if you don't
even get to the trial you should have never got to the trial I I no I agree 100% um as far as Michael Boyd's name
goes um has it been drugged through the mud yes uh it's not it's not Uh Kevin Crane's fault that his name has been
drugged through the mud in my opinion it's the it's been the attorneys for Ryan Ferguson that has brought his name
up time and time again it's the online community that's kept his name running uh We've mentioned his name here too so
we're just as guilty as anybody else so on that topic do you think Michael Boyd uh for you it would be considered Prime
Suspect number one uh I mean look he's the he's in the same location roughly about the time of the murder so I think
his story is very important the problem is he's changed it multiple times so um I don't think him necessarily changing
it means that he's instantly guilty but why are you changing the story bud you know like just tell the truth stick with
the truth again though a lot of the I feel for the guy because a lot of the stuff is them questioning him years and
years later so maybe by going through the events you you kind of remember things a little differently you know
what I'm saying right like obviously he would remember that night more than most
people but what were what were his statements right afterwards mhm you know what I mean uh so I I don't know uh yeah
I uh for me I don't know that I would put him as my number one suspect I don't have a number one suspect to be honest
with you he would be somebody a person that I would want to talk to interest and he might be able to lead you down
the right rabbit hole and I think you have enough evidence that was collected at the SE to either clear him or maybe
bring up charges on him um the thing that I the thing that I can't get over though is there was a blood trail that
led near the alley or all the way to the alley from the parking lot M okay so a couple issues with that blood tril one
could could Michael Boyd have left that potentially left that blood trail his car was parked somewhat in that area
it's it's possible it's possible but the way that I've heard this Blood Trail described I've never seen pictures of it
I so so I don't want anybody to go crazy on this but the way I've heard it described was that it was a mess of a
blood trail which would would imply to me that it was created by more than one person we do have we do have shaa or
saying she saw two people and we do know that they they ran off in that area after they called for help I Am with You
Captain I do find it very strange that that that somebody would attack somebody and then say call for help um so what
I'm getting at is you have two situations to me I think it boils down to two situations you either have a
situation where wait hold on where these guys stumbled go ahead I was just going
to say unless it's one Tacker and two guys were walking up and they came up to help the guy runs off MH and then all of
a sudden you're going hey call for help call for help and then you're like [ __ ]
we got to get out of here yeah and you've gotten blood all over your shoes at this point and you've taken off right
you might maybe you have a prior you know and you were just trying to look it's different if you've been behind
bars before you might go up to help somebody and the cops comeing you go [ __ ] I'm out of here um I'm not messing
with those guys again well and if you see the way that they handled the Charles Eric and Ryan Ferguson situation
that does not inspire you to come forward at anytime soon and say I was there and I stumbled upon this guy he
was attacked I told them to call for help and then I left because I was drunk or because I didn't want to be in the
area when this thing went down or I was afraid I was afraid that the whoever did
this was still lurking in the in the parking lot right um I the big problem I have is something that you asked earlier
motive I I struggle to find a motive for Michael Boyd to have done this uh as well as I struggle to see any motive at
all uh for this to have taken place it from everything I read about Kent he he seemed to be a great guy well-liked at
work well-liked in in the community um you know I know we don't know much about these people when we when we look into
these crimes we only get to see little Snippets and little small sample sizes of their life but I struggle to find any
kind of motive here this almost seems to me as some kind of random crazy attack and I think that that is a big problem
that has hindered this investigation that there's there is lack of motive there is lack of reasoning and why
anybody would commit this crime yeah again I mean like being involved in sports I I'd want to know his background
if he had any gambling problems there so I mean to me that would explain how vicious of attack it was and it would
explain why they used his belt you know uh even look I mean he could have been taken off his belt but again I to me
that's like it's like making a statement yeah I really just get the feeling here
like I said no motive I feel like he he came across somebody or somebody's and there there was some kind of altercation
that broke out into a fight I think he tried to defend himself and the and the person or person's um you know for a
lack of better word went went crazy on him went homicidal on him and and this ended up being uh the result
unfortunately well overall it's a sad case you know sad for Ryan and his family I think it's sad you know again
for Chucky and I hope uh I hope Ryan does stick by his word and and tries to help him as much as he can because I
think he has the loudest voice and the biggest platform of anybody on this case MH um you know and look I'm all for good
police officers good detectives good prosecutors I you know I want to believe in the system but the you know time and
time again you'll see these cases where the system fails all of us it doesn't it
didn't just fail Ryan it failed everybody involved and and then essentially fails us and you're right
and and while you're pointing out who this was sad for it was it was sad for you everyone the Colombia community in
involved as well including the the Tribune as well the the employees there that worked with Kent but as you were
touching upon Captain it was a sad display for our justice system as well it it it failed us that day it failed so
far as failed Kent Ryan and Charles Erikson as well and I also do want to point out reiterate that uh you know we
have Ryan stating that Charles has his support that he has Charles's back he's going to continue to work to get some of
these people out of prison that are innocent including Charles we also have the Ferguson family uh who has offered a
$110,000 reward for any tips that would lead to solving the murder of Kent height hold uh which I think shows the
the compassion as well as character of the Ferguson family yeah and if you're interested in
supporting Ryan at all for you know him being in jail for 10 years wrongfully convicted um check out Ryan Ferguson
Fitness and you can UHC Ryan Ferguson fitness.com and you can follow him on all social media I know he's wrote some
books and I think maybe he has another one coming out uh this year maybe speaking of books how about some
recommended reading here Captain this week we are recommending Queen City Gothic Cincinnati's most Infamous murder
mysteries by JT Townsen I've met Mr Townsen once brilliant guy great writer uh we had a little Zodiac Killer debate
uh but anyway Queen City Gothic is fascinating it's a fantastic book and JT Townson takes us on a Sinister journey
through 13 cases which took place in Cincinnati Ohio between 1904 and 1971 including the murder Zone killer
the bride in the casket and Terror in The Gaslight District if if you like Ohio criminal history or just cold cases
in general then you must have Queen City Gothic in your home library and you can
pick that up and add it to your library by going to True Crim garage.com and click on the recommended page we have
our Amazon Banner on there which you can use to purchase any of the books or movies that we have listed we will see
you back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't litter
[Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on
Angie to tackle your dream kitchen REM model connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
inside to outside repairs to Renovations get started on the Angie app or visit angie.com today you can do this
when you Angie that

Ryan Ferguson /// Part 2 /// 117

Part 2 of 2

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

We all know that a lot of crazy things can happen on Halloween night but maybe none as crazy as this. In 2001 a couple of High School students were out enjoying several Halloween parties. The partying took them into the early morning hours of November 1st. One of them was so intoxicated he could not remember what took place Halloween night. In the same area of town a man leaving work after 2am was beaten and strangled to death in a parking lot. Several dreams about the murder and one phone call led to the arrests of the teenagers. One of them confessed and the other was convicted of murder.

Beer of the Week – Bobber Lager by Log Boat Brewing Company Garage Grade – 4 and a quarter bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

Ryan Ferguson's wrongful conviction is examined, highlighting witness recantations and prosecutorial misconduct leading to his exoneration.

Key points

Ryan Ferguson's Arrest. Ryan Ferguson discusses his wrongful arrest for a crime he didn't commit.
Trial Testimonies. The trial features intense testimonies that sway the jury's opinion.
New Defense Attorney Steps In. In 2009, high-profile attorney Kathleen Zelner takes on Ryan Ferguson's case pro bono, aiming to overturn his conviction.
Witnesses Recant Testimony. During a hearing, key witnesses Chuck Erikson and Jerry Trump admit they lied during the trial.
Conviction Overturned. In late 2013, Ryan Ferguson's conviction is vacated, leading to his release from prison.
The Injustice of Imprisonment. Charles Erikson remains imprisoned despite evidence suggesting his innocence. "It's a crime man, it's a crime."

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Never thought I'd be arrested for a crime I didn't commit.

Ryan Ferguson reflects on his wrongful arrest.

4:51WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.