The Fifth Nail /// Part 1 /// 118 | Forensic Files

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[Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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[Music] you I'm excited about this beer here Captain look at me I'm I'm chair dancing
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drink it so today we are excited to be trying we don't need no stinking Coast by the hardworking people at six sense
Brewing Company in the Cozy town of Jackson Ohio Garage grade four out of five bottle caps we don't need no
stinking Coast is a super hazy double IPA brewed in that East Coast style and it's got a low hop High Citrus thing
going on and this delicious beer from the six sense Brewing Company was brought To Us by these hardworking
Citizens First up we have to thank Andrew and Janice from well I'm guessing from Jackson County Ohio because they
are the ones that sent us the 6 cents beer and the bang so a big thank you to Andrew and Janice next we have to thank
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that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some True
[Music] Crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of the fifth nail [Music]
we couldn't tell you this story without first telling you about a website the fifth Nail website for the fifth nail.
blogspot.com the site is an online web blog that feels and reads much like a personal Journal a personal journal from
the blogs Creator the name the fifth nail comes from a according to the sight's Creator
an old myth a myth about the crucifixion of Christ and States gypsies crafted five
nails for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ but only four were used by the Romans the fifth nail was intended to
pierce the heart of Christ but the gypsies hid the nail from the Romans depending on which story you follow from
the blog the gypsies were either rewarded or punished for having done this rewarded for trying to protect Christ
and having gone against the Romans or punished for causing the already very painful death to last longer than
necessary Other Stories on the blog would say the fifth nail is a sacred artifact A Relic that holds great power
but once you get past the crafty name within the journal ENT the writer has made it obvious this is a
one-person protest site one person voicing their opinions against the registration laws of sex offenders
stating that punishments for having committed crimes only lead to more crimes the fifth nail blog was created
in January of 2004 on this Blog the writer spoke of past crimes they had committed about
their daily life and about wanting to change the penal system and also wanting to have a closer
relationship with God in one of the first posts the writer states this site can be a voice for repressed
criminals the site nor the Blogger condones criminal Acts or behavior but rather this is a reminder that the
criminal too just like the rest of us is a human being in other post the author says the
Blogger is not a pedophile and if you review the post regarding past crimes committ commed it is obvious they
believe these were simply crimes committed by a confused young person who was acting out because of
abuse they had suffered this tone rings throughout other posts suggesting simply
that criminals are victims too furthermore it is the belief of the fifth nail that the cure for Crime
criminals and criminal activity is love much like Christ taught people to love their
enemies the Blogger also States they knew all about abuse from every angle from the perspective of not only the
abuser but the victim as well and they were recommending lighter and less strict punishments for offenders saying
offenders should be offered counseling and treatment programs rather than jail time in April of 2005 the readers of the
fifth nail would notice an obvious change into the tone and mindset of the author by now the author was clearly
depressed and most likely suicidal the blog post making reference to what the author calls the demons
saying things like the demons are stronger than ever I am alone and only God can save me I might be the only one
who can understand the nature of the Demons I'm very afraid because if the demons win a lot of people are going to
get hurt very badly hurt I continue to pray that God will help me please pray for
me because I don't know if the right choice is even an option now on Wednesday May 11th there was a post
submitted titled the demons have taken over and it stated it's too late it's too late for God to take care of the
Demons because the demons have locked up the Happ person in the same dungeon where the demons had once been locked
up and now with the happy person locked up the demons are loose and now I am very very
afraid the demons have caused me to question my faith to God and I am Losing My Religion and that is how they got the
key and got out of the dungeon and locked me up not only am I afraid but I am also
very very angry angry with Society I'd like to kill myself but I don't know if I
can I would like to hurt society as much as possible and then die as for the happy person I once was
well the happy person was just a dream and as it turns out the happy person never really existed at all turns out
the demons were alive and well long before the dream of the happy person two days later on Friday the 13th
the author made the last blog post it was a lengthy post but the gist of it the author
wrote is taking people with me right or wrong and does it really matter a million years from now will
there even be people will any of this matter I have a disease I have contracted from
society I hope I will be able to finish my online journals before dying which I hope will be soon or maybe with some
help I could turn myself in that might still be a possibility but the problem with that is
the demons are in control and not the happy [Music] person [Music] just 2 days after the final blog post on
the fifth nail.com website on May 15th 2005 our story takes us to a place called Calene Idaho for those of you not
familiar that's about 30 Mi east of Seattle and the population back then would have been roughly about 40,000
people well our story will take place just outside of there near Lake cyland Lane Robert Hollingsworth hired a
neighbor boy to mow his grass he hired 13-year-old Slade grony Slade was your typical American young teenage boy his
family did not have much money so he was helping out doing some work for his neighbor Mr hollingworth you know to
earn some walking around money the arrangement the two had made was that Robert Hollingsworth would get the exact
amount of money that they had agreed on and paid the boy the following day so on
May 15th when the work was done Slade grony returned to his home across the street where he lived with his mother
and his mother's long-term boyfriend now we SL said that Slade had finished the work for the day over the hollingworth
property and returned home mhm well the next day on May 16th in the evening Robert Hollingsworth goes over to the
neighbor's house to pay the boy for his hard work on his walk over he can see the family is likely home as the two
vehicles that they own were were parked in the driveway in their normal spots and as he gets closer he notices that
both the vehicles have several of the doors sitting open he walks past the vehicles ducking down to look inside and
he continues on walking towards the front door the car doors are open but both in both cars but nothing seems to
be out of the ordinary as hollan worth approaches the front door he's going to notice some blood on the wall yeah he's
going to see what what appears to be quite a bit of blood um as he takes another step he can see that there's
there's blood on the actual door and on the porch steps as well so we have it on
the walls the door and the steps well this frightens hollingworth and and of course he runs back to his house and he
goes for the phone he calls 911 and he reports that when he went to his neighbor's house uh he thinks that he
saw a lot of blood on the front porch in the door you know so please send the police in an ambulance as quickly as
possible mhm members of the sheriff's department arrive at the scene they knock on the doors and they receive no
answer but of course the blood on the door in the front porch will give the officers probable cause to enter the
home they quickly find a side door to the home unlocked and they enter according to the officers the first
thing they notice is that there's blood everywhere they see two bodies lying dead in an air area between the kitchen
and the living room around each body there is a large pool of blood both victims had been bound with duct tape
and and zip ties both had been hit many times in the head and face one of the victims appeared to have been shot in
the head possibly at close range this was the body of 13-year-old Slade he was face down in a puddle of blood there was
quite a good amount of duct tape wrapped around his head and around his wrist as
well and laying next to Slade will be his mother in her own pull of blood this is Brenda groy uh she too is faced down
in Blood and it appeared that the blood had been coming from her head her wrists
were bound behind her back and her feet bound with zip ties mhm in the living room there was another obvious sign of
violent death and this is similar to what the sheriff's had just seen a man later identified as Mark McKenzie lay in
blood wristband with duct tape and feet was zip ties and this would be the long-term boyfriend correct he's
actually the owner of the home officers surmised that he too had been killed by either a gunshot or blunt force trauma
to the Head Robert hollingworth also tells the sheriffs that less than 24 hours before the bodies were discovered
that he had called the sheriff's department to report a suspicious truck he found on his property mhm the crime
scene was so bloody and horrific that many of the deputies nearly got sick after a thorough search of the home
deputies noted that they found a lot of blood now this was all over the inside of the home and this included Footprints
handprints blood smears there was spatter on the walls and floor as well as droplets on the floor so the police
find three victims we have two adults and we have one teenage boy M but they don't find any other victims on the
property or in the home now this is late Monday night and by the time they go through the crime scene now we're close
to early Tuesday right and the sheriff's department they start notifying family members regarding the murders of their
loved ones one family member uh one family member of Brenda's is notified that three murder victims were found in
the home and the the lady she then tells them well you must be mistaken there should be five victims there not three
okay so the the the sheriff's department immediately are like what's going on why
would this this person that we're notifying tell us tell us that we should be seeing five victims here uh so when
pressed again she says the same thing you know there should be five victims here not three this is not the last the
sheriff's department would hear of this and after confirming this suspicion the sheriff's department realizes that they
have a whole new set of problems on their hands they not only have three murdered victims a killer or killers on
the loose but now they have two missing children to look for as well yeah we have 9-year-old Dylan and we have
8-year-old Shasta yeah cuz see at the time of the crime you know that particular night there were five people
in that house there's Mark McKenzie he's 37 years old he's the long-term boyfriend and the owner of the home as
we had stated there's Brenda grony uh the mother uh she's she's the mother of of five kids but three of her kids live
there so we have 13-year-old Slade who we had mentioned who was found dead in the home but we also have 9-year-old
Dylan uh that the captain captain mentioned as well as the little sister Shasta who's eight old Captain so uh
Brenda had two older kids that did not live at the house um and her ex-husband who was very active in his children's
lives had his own place and saw the children on a regular basis so now the sheriff's department law enfor forcement
are wondering where is Dylan and where is Shasta now of course there was a thorough search conducted at both the
groy property and then at the Hollingsworth property as well and at the discovery of the murders they
conducted these searches but again as once the suspicion was confirmed that we have missing children well they're going
to search again so we've just combined those two searches and listed what the sheriff's department noted as of
importance uh together we already talked about all the blood at the grany McKenzie house MH and we
talked about Mark and Brenda being bound with duck tape and zip ties uh tape on the wrist and zip ties binding the feet
Slade was only bound with duct tape around his wrist and some on his head as well but no zip ties on his ankles there
was a second structure on the property on the Mackenzie grony property this is is like a large shed um and should point
out before we get too far into this that these these properties that we're discussing they're very they're large
properties you know we're talking about uh large front yards large backyards so so couple maybe a acre and a half two
acres yeah yeah they're they're of substantial size so in this structure uh they find they find a additional
Vehicles now these were family vehicles in okay so this is more like a pool barn
or something correct correct and not a little shed a big a big uh pool Barn like you said they find some extra
vehicles on the grony property as well one including a camper I believe all of these vehicles end up belonging to the
grony or McKenzie family now on Mr hollingworth property they found a 1988 silver Ford pickup truck with Idaho
plates now this is registered to Lisa and Daniel Miller this is the vehicle this is the quote unquote abandoned
truck that Mr Hollingsworth had reported as suspicious earlier to the Sheriff's Department okay now he says that he
first saw it on the on the McKenzie grony property around 8:00 p.m. on Sunday May 15th he says that he then saw
it again the next day this would be very early about 6:30 in the morning but this
time the the truck was on his property so before these events had before these events he had never seen
this truck before uh the truck is still on his property at the time of the search in the bed of the truck the
sheriff's department they find a roll of duct tape and they also find a ball of wadded up duct tape as well this is duct
tape obvious obviously matching tape that was used at the murder scene yeah winter winter chicken dinner yeah so the
truck is their first major lead law enforcement stated quote nothing appeared to be stolen from the crime
scene except for the kids there was an amber alert that was issued for The Disappearance of 9-year-old Dylan grony
and his little sister 8-year-old Shasta grony search parties were sent out to search the wooded area surrounding the
family's homes and then extending out from there they conducted searches with both tracking and cadaver dogs both on
foot and on Horseback cuz one would hope that maybe why these attacks happen on on three individuals that maybe they
some somehow got away and uh or possibly that they were killed and their bodies were moved somewhere as I like to say
you're exactly right captain that the the first of what you said was exactly their suspicion they they were hopeful
and thought maybe these kids got away and they're hiding in the woods somewhere and they're just afraid to
come out because they're they're terrified at what they had seen or heard yeah so what the sheriff's department is
going to do is they're going to divide into two teams one is going to take on the triple homicide and the other team
is going to be searching for the two missing children yes and on Tuesday May 17th the sheriff's department they
announced that after interviewing friends in family of the victims uh that they have a person of interest a person
of interest has emerged from this group all right and this is Robert Roy lutner uh he's aged 33 he's a large guy he's
about 6' three 230 240 PBS right uh he's nicknamed concrete Bob uh he's also a friend of the family
okay he is someone that visited the home a couple of times just days before the murders and it's believed that he even
visited the home on Sunday evening maybe just hours before the slayings were committed so a friend of the longtime
boyfriend um yeah I I got the vibe that it was a friend of both of them um and but this is concrete Bob right right so
concrete Bob is the number one suspect at this time and how he emerges as a suspect is is like this okay so remember
we said that Brenda grony had two older children that did not live at the home yeah well one of these children this is
Jesse grony um he tells the sheriff's department that concrete Bob owed his mother and his mother's boyfriend about
$2,000 okay Jesse also explained that even though concrete Bob owed the family money there did not seem to be any bad
blood regarding this loan or any bad blood between the family and concrete Bob yeah but there's that psychological
thing that if you if you lend somebody money they instantly start resenting you even though you lent them money well the
thing here is you know he he states that even though the family didn't have much
money at all he didn't see he didn't see his mother and her boyfriend pressuring
concrete Bob to repay this money at anytime soon right but when the sheriff's department is talking to other
family members about rete Bob there their state in look um he you know maybe has a little bit of a criminal past but
he's he's not somebody that we would suspect of being able to do this yes what was his criminal past uh he had
some drug possession charges he also had domestic battery uh this was for fighting with a girlfriend outside of a
bar I guess this domestic battery charge ended up being reduced to just disturbing the peace uh he also had two
counts of fraud on his record as well now here's the suspicious thing though Captain concrete Bob took a trip um to
Boise the day after the bodies were found uh he drove a truck uh that that matched the truck found on the
Hollingsworth property but we we know that that was registered to some other people so there's a little confusion
there but still interest the sheriff's department they are looking for this concrete Bob who as we said conveniently
took a trip the day after the murders well they don't have to look very long or very hard because about a day after
they announced that he was a person of interest concrete Bob comes forward and he talks with the sheriff's department
they interview him for 16 hours wow they gave him a polygraph test and as what was reported was that concrete Bob
passed the polygraph test with flying colors mainly gray though so after all of this concrete Bob was cleared and
he's no longer a suspect the thing here is though Captain we have the autopsies to discuss now remember when the bodies
were found we have the situation where it was believed that the victims could have either been shot in the head or
they were killed by blunt force trauma to the Head the autopsies revealed that it was not gunshots but it was in fact
blunt force trauma to the head and did they have the weapon um they they had their suspicions but they were not going
to announce that to the public um what they found regarding the injuries were brain contusions and skull fractures uh
the sheriff's department as we said was not announcing the weapon they believed used in the attack however a local paper
was saying that a claw hammer was used on the victims well it's actually surprising that the sheriff department
talked to concrete Bob for as long as they did and they didn't you know give him every piece of the you know evidence
of what happened and get him to falsely confess oh like we've seen very recently
on this show do you know if the sheriff department has a time of death well what
they find out is this is based off of the body temperatures it was determined that the three had died either in the
late Sunday evening hours or early Monday morning hours so that doesn't doesn't tell us much we both could have
guessed that well they they weren't found until Monday evening so it it only it only really closes the window a
little bit but it it still leaves us a decent sized window to work with there now when they when they conduct the
toxicology reports uh the two on the on the adults revealed the presence of THC and methamphetamine and both Brenda and
Mark all right so they're smoking some pot yeah and they're doing a little bit of recreational drugs it it it looks
like um and there is there is no definitive proof wait so is meth considered recreational uh I I guess all drugs
might be considered recreational do seen that recreational to me but regardless the toxicology report reveals the
presence of both THC and methampetamine now even though there's no definitive proof of this the sheriff's department
was going to go with the theory that because five victims were controlled and at least three of them were bound there
there was a strong possibility that they were looking for more than one perpetrator yeah also they could not
find any sign of forced entry so this of course was suggesting a strong possibility that the victims knew the
perpetrators the the other strange thing here is that the McKenzie and groy household well it had plenty of firearms
in the home you know hunting is very is very popular in that area and that's something that some of of the family
members participated in right uh that not only were their firearms scattered kind of throughout in different parts of
the home uh several of these were loaded and they you know stashed loaded throughout the home found by the
sheriff's department but none of them were found near where the victims lay um so it it didn't appear that any of the
victims had tried to go for these weapons in any form of defense well they're high on meth one thing that the
sheriff's department was Wonder wondering about was maybe The Killers watched the house and may have been able
to pull off some kind of surprise attack in the middle of the night this would also be evidence why these guns were not
used for defense um but of course the sheriff's department is working with the expectation that the two missing
children Dylan and Shasta are still alive we'll get right back to the case of the fifth nail right after this quick
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50% all right we're back cheers everybody cheers so we were going through some of the Sheriff's
Department's thoughts and feelings early on in this investigation some things that they had noticed at the crime scene
what that was leading them to believe and theor Riz regarding the the perpetrators that they were looking for
now I do want to point out here that the sheriff's department made sure to tell the media and the community that this
home this home was not a drug house the sheriff's department found no evidence to suggest that the house was used to
manufacture store or sell drugs and actually I don't believe that they found any actual drugs in the house at all so
everything here is is simply just pointing to the drugs being found in the in the system of the adults of Brenda
and Mark right so the sheriff department at this point is just basically stating
that recreational drug use has nothing to do with the actual crimes or the possible abductions of the two um
children yeah that's that's what the evidence is pointing towards now shortly into this investigation uh we had
already discussed one lead that went that went nowhere you know they're able to clear concrete Bob
um but the sheriff's department is going to catch a break uh this is when a white
van was spotted uh this white van was from Washington had Washington plates on it uh and was reported to the sheriff's
department now the vehicle was spotted about 70 Mi north of cordal Lane this would be near the Montana and can Canada
borders at a store that caters for hunters and outdoor enthusiasts the vehicle was reported because uh a man
was at the store with two children that got out of the vehicle they didn't buy anything they didn't actually even shop
at all the Man simply asked for directions he asked for directions to a place called Libby
Montana so the the police are very interested in this because we have this man here and he's got two children that
are of the same age as Shasta and Dylan in this vehicle heading out of the state well they search and search and
search for this vehicle and it doesn't turn up they're they're not able to locate the van that's with the
Washington plates well and it could be anybody I mean there's a lot of people traveling with two kids but those kids
are two kids of their own yeah and the thing is here Captain we would have a lot of similar sightings to this uh over
the course of some time because you know the sheriff's department really was doing everything they could to try to
find these these two children there were there were Billboards going up with both
of their pictures very you know big beautiful pictures of the two kids on there so that everybody could see their
faces you could get a sense of their height and their weight know where they're missing from and and there were
people looking for these kids all over the area so of course we're going to have some different quote unquote
sightings from time to time right and the sheriff's department has already looked into a close friend the concrete
Bob but also we' just assume that they'd have to look into family members especially because there are three
murders and two abductions mhm and the the children's father uh this is Steven grony of course he came under suspicion
um and and I say of course just because you know we know that that's a typical normal part of any investigative process
when you're investigating the murder and deaths of family members well you're going to be questioned you probably
should be questioned yeah you got look at the ex-husband or if there's an ex-wife or somebody anybody inside that
inner circle um but the but furthermore he became Under Suspicion a little bit more than normal because of of some of
the statements that he had made uh to the public into the media now on several occasions the father Steven groy now he
he was pleading to the killers of the family and to the abductors of the CH two children on these you know press
conferences and interviews any chance that he got he was he was speaking directly to the abductors and the one
thing that the sheriff's department they found strange was that Steven grony kept
saying he said this multiple times that that the abductor should drop the children off at a location of his
choosing and anonymously phone in where he had dropped them off and that that they should please do not kill these
kids because they had nothing to do with this and he would often say that the kids had nothing to do with this and
that's the statement that that caused the sheriff's department to to have some uneasy feelings about Steven groaning
because their their whole thing was they could not they could not establish or determine a motive for the crime that
took place right and now we have somebody on the inner circle saying that the children have nothing to do with
this right almost like assuming he knows what the motive was mhm and also I think
it's very suspicious on the idea of hey just uh pick a place drop him off and call an anonymous it's almost like he's
setting up a scenario for him to be able to drop off the kids somewhere yeah yeah
you're right that or or that someone that he knows of could just drop them somewhere and not not be seen not be
caught especially if the kids aren't going to reveal who dropped them off or who's been holding them
um yeah then the issue becomes what's his Alibi for Sunday and Monday mhm and the other thing too is I think he's
pretty upfront and in the public eye quite a bit during this this investigation it's not like he's he's
hiding behind closed doors and he's phoning these things in he's he's at the Forefront of this well and the other
thing too is yeah maybe you see a motive or or anger or revenge or something against the ex-wife with the new
boyfriend but him killing his own teenage boy mhm you know I don't I don't know it doesn't
seem it doesn't seem extremely likely right uh the other thing here though Captain is you know during questioning
and things like that with the father of the children of Steven groy now the the other thing they were concerned about
was that they stated that he had failed parts of his polygraph test not they they weren't saying he failed the
polygraph test they were saying it appears he was deceptive at portions of this test but of course they would not
go on to to inform us as to what these portions of the test were that that they believed him to be that could be nerves
or anything I i' I'd really be interested in taking one myself just to see what kind of scenario that is and
and the effects of that mhm well and the thing too here is Captain you know a lot
of that's based off of you know your your what's going on with you internally at the time right so you you have this
horrible situation where your ex-wife has been killed right and your son has been killed and now you have a daughter
and son who are missing well you have a lot you got a lot of emotions in you at this probably a lot of anxiety running
through you and anger sadness all kinds of stuff MH and look I mean I think the important thing is you know especially
somebody that had kids with this with the lady that was murdered you know it's not just his ex-wife it's the mother of
his children so and now and now you have two missing children yourself and I think that's why you know this is this
is one reason why these tests aren't something that they use in the court of law because there there is errors and on
top of that a lot of the let's say determining whether somebody's deceptive or not is coming from an expert's
opinion right where you might be able to show this to another quote unquote expert and they say I'm not seeing any
signs of deception here yeah but I think it's a good barometer you know I still think it's something that they could use
during the investigation to give the the police some kind of lead yes I think it
I think it can be helpful when conducted by experienced uh investigators when you
have people that that have conducted these tests time and time again and have experience as far as many years
investigating these crimes because I'm a big believer in that old gut feeling and
I think that that comes with experience MH uh the thing here is Captain the the national Center for missing and
exploited children got involved we talked about the Billboards that were set up um and and you know this is one
of our favorite organizations uh they sent out my only my only issue is we donated money and
now we get like an email every day asking for more money well we've donated a few times but uh yeah yeah you're
right they they remind us that uh hey we're still here hey we're yeah we know we talk about you every other week on
the show um anyway they uh they sent out notifications Nationwide regarding the two missing children uh and they
distributed over 100,000 Flyers um throughout the Western American states now uh this this was interesting the way
that they did this they were contacting businesses and so if you had a gas station or a restaurant or something
like that they would they would send out a fax or an email to these different businesses and they would also send out
flyers wherever they could so they're trying to get the the pictures of these children in front of people that might
you know if someone stops for gas if someone goes into a store to to shop or to to buy food you know whoever took
these kids you would assume is somewhat on the run if the kids are still alive and the sheriff's department is working
with the expectation that the kids may still be on still be alive yeah I think it's I I think it' be silly to just
assume they're on the run I mean we've seen a lot of times where somebody is abducted and then they're taken back to
the person's layer or whatever M so that that's a big possibility they need to be
looking into as well so if somebody refers to their home as their layer we should just assume they're guilty of
horrible things well just well don't don't go over there for a barbecue is what I'm saying uh the the crime and the
missing children were also featured on America's Most Wanted uh they featured the story twice and I believe that they
ran it on two Saturdays in a row um these would be the two Saturdays following the when the crime actually
took place so nationally everybody is looking for these kids and meanwhile the investigators are still analyzing
evidence that they've collected from the crime scene but on a on a sad note they're also they're searching the local
landfills because they're wondering if maybe the kids were dumped somewhere right um you know these these are all
things that are necessary to do but one terrible thing that was really working against those fighting for a good
outcome well there was a a bit of a delay in getting the Amber Alert out for these two children so once that Amber
Alert alert goes out uh it would hit the emergency broadcast system uh the state
Lottery Commission all the news and media Outlets as well as the notification boards along the highways
in Idaho parts of Montana Washington and Oregan now part of the delay was because
at first they didn't even know that the kids were missing you know they didn't know that they had kids involved in this
crime until notifying the family about the three murders seems like something that you should be able to figure out
within you know a half an hour well then there was further delay because of a bunch of bureaucratic [ __ ] basically
so so the the family is killed and the two CH kids were taken either on late on May the 15th or early in the morning on
May the 16th according to the body temperatures right M um so the bodies are not discovered until late on the
16th they became aware of the missing children early on the 17th and the Amber Alert does not go out until the morning
of the 18th so that's just that's ridiculous yeah so by the time the Amber Alert goes out we have about 48 to 60
hours that have passed based on depending how you you shake it or or depending on the actual time of yeah
there there's a nine and an 8-year-old that their lives are depending on this stuff you don't mess it up yeah and the
the really aggravating thing here is I I mentioned bureaucratic [ __ ] well a lot of that was Jesus dropping the es
Bombs all over the place a lot of that was that at the time there there were people involved that said that they
didn't know that this particular crime or these two missing kids actually fit the criteria for an amber alert yeah it
should be this simple there's children missing issue a Amber Alert that's it thank you you know that's it eight and
NYE old world yes and the thing here that we got to keep in mind too that we have we have additional problems in this
crime right because we we all know how this we know how unlikely a good outcome is in a child/ stranger abduction
especially after 48 Hours has expired well and look we've covered how many cases now mhm you know I don't know I I
realized I didn't give a number there when you asked me yeah I don't know either because think about all the cases
that we haven't uh released because we never recorded them cuz we're just sitting around the garage that doesn't
count drunk um we should have recorded all that stuff because then then when we needed a week off but the thing here now
to me looking at this case as it's developing okay at first you start thinking yeah maybe this Revenge Type
killing you know maybe it's the ex-husband uh maybe it's a friend that they you know lent money to where's the
motive but now that you have A8 and nyear old missing to me the motive becomes more Sinister it
becomes um the motive starts leaning itself towards this idea that I had to kill the I had to kill the the parents
and the teenager because my Victim of choice is under let's say 10 or so MH and so now to me it's now
I I think you're going to your fear is that these kids are going to die but my initial fear is what kind of torture are
they going to have to go through before that death occurs right and to me then this motive becomes uh
sexual yeah and and you're right you're exactly right we have a crime where they
can't figure out the motive but the other thing that the investigators are saying at the time is that this they're
not releasing what they believe the motive to be however they're stating that you know this is a crime for which
there's no profile for this type of crime there's nothing that they were taught coming up that that would teach
them about this exact type of crime and I think you can kind of figure out exactly what motive they believe they're
working with because what did they State very early on into the investigation the
sheriff's department said that the only thing that appeared to have been stolen from the crime scene was the kids right
so not only are we playing behind the eightball because because of the delay in the amber alert but also think about
this you know we don't have a suspect name we do not have a suspect vehicle description or a direction of travel for
this vehicle and plus keep in mind in Idaho you can be in in another state in minutes almost heck you could you could
jump the Canadian border right but with every state depending on where you're at in the state you can be
out of the state within minutes no I get that but they they were in northern Idaho and if you picture the the outline
of Idaho that puts you in several States very quickly um you know and we stated that 48 hours is kind of the the the
mark there that you got to be concerned about because 74% of kidnapped children that were that are killed they are
killed within 3 hours of the abduction Jesus yeah and that's why we donate our money of course and the thing
here is you know for everybody out there listening that has pitched into the beer
fund cheers you know cheers to you because you are the reason that we donated money to the the national Center
for missing and exploited children on several occasions because you know once the fridge is full we'll just be greedy
at that point if we're if we're not passing that along and trying to do some good with it and it's one hell of an
organization it's it really is it's it's been uh the the recovery rate has increased uh for finding these kids and
returning them home safely has increased since the organization and Foundation has been created so it really truly is a
good thing yeah and we're not trying to Pat ourselves on the back we are kind of
greedy bastards cuz we do fill up two fridges before we but we're also trying to Pat Pat everybody else on the back at
the same time right my hand is getting tired all right so we have concrete Bob and and he's ruled out correct and we
have the ex-husband yes um and and I think I think with the ex-husband here Captain jaon I think um
no Steven grony yeah Steph Jabron uh I think that we have a situation here where there might be some speculation
and some suspicion a little bit but I don't think that it's like something that they're really putting a ton of
weight into the guy is obviously been horribly affected by the crime uh and he's like I said he's on the front line
line of this investigation he's out there with his time he's pleading to the abductor he's speaking to the killers
and asking for the children back right but so so he's kind of on the sideline we're we're going to keep looking at him
but what's next in the investigation okay so let's let's fast forward a little bit here right because those are
all jump into the DeLorean those are all things that we're taking place within the first week or two of the
investigation and before we moved on from that I wanted to bring up the problem with the Amber Alert because it
is a good system when you when you put it into into action immediately right that's the whole point of it so anyway 3
weeks into the investigation now hope is actually it's it's starting to fade by this point the sheriff's department they
they don't know who the killer or killers are nor do they know the whereabouts of Shasta and Dylan by this
time they had interviewed 700 people they had received and chased 1,700 tips and leads and they had nothing new to
announce to the media in the community at this point 3 weeks into the investigation no new information to
present anybody and of course they they have to have some information that they hold back right we know that well one
one investigator did offer up his opinion though regarding the crimes stating that the murders had to have
been premeditated because whoever perpetrated the murders brought the necessary materials with them to bind the victims
as well as bringing the murder instrument as well stating it was an extremely violent scene and in his
experience a violent crime scene usually means the motivation is one of three things for him it's either money drugs
or love stating that this is the type of crime scene that he would expect to see
involvement from like a Columbia drug lord or something like that but he also pointed out you know that Brenda grony
and Mark McKenzie they were not dealing with large sums of money at any point right they were also not dealing with
large sums of drugs and they themselves didn't show any signs of having drug issues they found drugs in their system
but they couldn't find any reason to point out that the that the adults had drug problems well that is ridiculous
because here look I I I don't think so go ahead okay well I I understand that people use drugs recre
recreationally I understand that people drink some beers maybe smoke a little pot once you start doing something like
meth it's a it's a whole different ball game so so the idea that they don't have
drug issues that's to me that's just that's me that's my opinion I get what you're
saying I I do get what you're saying because to me you're right you would think that there if you had to put out
all the drugs on the line and and make and make a line draw a line in the sand that says okay these are for
recreational use and everything on this side would suggest that you have some kind of drug issue or problem I'm with
you I would probably I would put methamphetamine in the side of you got a drug problem right um you know but but
this is the sheriff's department stating this and I think that some doesn't mean
they're correct it doesn't mean that they're correct but the reason why I agree with their side on this one is
that for the simple fact that they the the the parents both held down jobs okay they they were listed they were said to
be hardworking family oriented people but everybody also said the people that knew them closely they said they were
hardworking people family oriented people but they liked the party a little bit and they like to cut loose a little
bit but like I said according cut loose on a Sunday night before work on Monday I do when there's uh no I do when
there's NFL football on but uh yeah that's called drinking some beers uh you know that's not called uh
methamphetamine right but the thing here is like like I said they they did not find any uh proof that there was a
manufacturing going on the house that they were storing drugs selling drugs and furthermore like I stated they
didn't that they even found any drugs at all it actually looks like they did not
find any drugs in the possession of the home because they took them all and on top of that here here's here's where I
really side with them okay is that they loaned a friend $2,000 and what I mean by that is I
think that people that have drug problems probably have money problems and they're not really in a position to
be loaning out money to to friends and family this okay sure so I mean you look at every rock star that has a bunch of
money they they didn't have this family did not have a bunch of M right but what
I'm stating is your your your thought process is well because they had $2,000 to loan out that they didn't have a drug
problem that is what I just said said yes right and what I'm saying that would be like saying well like Ray Charles he
didn't have a heroin problem cuz he didn't have a money problem no he had a heroin problem I that's all I'm saying I
think I see what you're saying but I think we should agree that Ray Charles was in a much different situation than
Brenda grony and Mark McKenzie right I understand that but what what I'm stating is to me uh the type of drug
they're using to me is a sign of that that's something that's a serious recreational drug M so so the the
sheriff's department stating that this one member stating that he would have expected this to be the result of of
money drugs or love and he also stated that you know they they looked into that drug angle and they didn't believe that
was the cause of this crime they also looked into the love angle as well and this turned up
nothing and they you know the money and the drug issues all kind of the same thing there so they're going nowhere
with this this is like they had said there this is a crime for which there was no profile for now in 2005 father
Father's Day fell on Sunday June 19th and on Father's Day Steven grony told reporters it was his Father's Day
wish that his two children Shasta and Dylan would safely return home but of course he had prepared himself for the
worse he also told them that he was losing hope as well stating that he was very optimistic the first couple of
weeks that they were missing and he thought that the kids would be home soon but as the weeks strug on he was no
longer optimistic yeah and I couldn't imagine uh what a parent or family member would be going through at that
moment you know as the days drag on they'd probably have to feel like the longest days in the world well a couple
of weeks after Father's Day this would bring us to July 2nd 2005 now um at 1:40 a.m. we have two guys that are outside
of a 24-hour Denny's restaurant they're outside smoking cigarettes when they see
I love me some Denny's though when they see a red Jeep Cherokee uh this has Missouri license plates on it okay the
vehicle pulls into the parking lot and out jumps a middle-aged man and a little girl the guys smoking quickly recognized
the little girl to be Shasta the one that they had seen on billboards and missing Flyers
uh all over all over the area right uh one of the guys he text his girlfriend uh the girlfriend is sitting inside
she's you know inside eating as he's outside smoking a cigarette he text her to fill her in on what's going on you
know I'm I'm seeing this guy and I'm seeing this girl that's she looks exactly like Shasta um here's what I'm
going to do I'm going to call the police the the guys decide that the two of them
are not going to let this guy and girl leave the restaurant they're not going to tip them off that that they've
spotted them but they're not going to let them leave the restaurant until the police have a chance to speak with the
both of them I I guarantee you these these two gentlemen that were smoking they got the fight Jitters yeah you know
I mean like they're probably all like red up at this point like okay we just got to keep an eye on him without
tipping our hand but we can't let this individual get anywhere mhm and at the same time though they're a little
concerned that they might be uh mistaken because they don't see a little boy right in this situation it's just the
little girl in the in the strange man so they're going to contact the police but
kind of interesting twist here though is that uh the manager of the Denny's contacts the police as well yeah so the
way that this story works is this the man and the girl they go into the restaurant and now the restaurant has
some missing persons posters they're they're you know posted in the in the vestibule or near the entrance
right um shortly after the man walks in the the girl of the poster the poster of
the girl I'm sorry is is removed it it suddenly disappears uh from the wall why from maybe from the guy okay yeah he
take he takes down the poster okay so they are seated and the man orders drinks uh and meals for both him and the
girl the waitress then recognizes the girl to be Shasta as well she notifies her manager about the situation by now
we're at about 1:41 a.m. both the manager and as the captain had stated one of the guys outside smoking had
called 911 shortly after the call a police officer responding to the call pulls into the parking lot now they
suspect that this man must have seen the cop because he quickly asked the waitress for his bill he then got up and
he took the girl with him and he headed toward the restrooms now two more police
cars pulled into the parking lot during this time of course all three cars were they were quiet you know none of them
had their lights on or their sirens on as they did not want to alert the man that that uh you know that he and the
girl had been cited had been reported to authorities but he knows well when the man and the girl return to their Booth
where they were seated the man leaned over across the table to the little girl he whispers something to her um no one
really knows what what is said no one heard what the man said to her now by this time the officers are inside the
restaurant and they approached the man and they told him they would like to speak with him
outside now the the man he he goes with them without incident once outside he spoke with the officers briefly and then
they put him in the back of one of their cars now the little girl at this point once she's alone she looks at the
waitress and she tells her that her name is Shasta gron and that she she wants to
see her daddy even though the little girl appeared to be fine um she she didn't appear to have any you know noticeable
injury on her she appeared to be healthy um she was quickly taken to the an area
hospital as this is standard procedure um and she remained in the hospital for a couple of days now shasta's father
Steven groy uh he was notified and uh he W he had actually gone to Seattle uh on
a short trip to visit his sister uh shortly after arriving in Seattle he gets a phone call that they found his
daughter and so he's going to have to travel back from Seattle to to to celan now then now keep in mind here's the
strange thing here Captain this Denny's restaurant is is located near relatively near where the crime
scene took place where this girl was abducted from okay so the man who is apprehended uh he sat in jail and all
the while everyone is wondering what happened to Dylan yeah that's the question here I mean one
we need to figure out if they were you know were they witnesses to the murders mhm where there's more than one um
perpetrator perpetrator uh is there maybe a group of people working what is the motive uh what trauma has she gone
through where was she kept or where was she held during this time she was abducted like I said you know again
people assuming that they're on the Run uh I don't think is you know you should never assume but also where is Dylan and
who is this man that they have in custody and that's what we'll get into next episode yes we're going to have a
lot of answers for you more on this case more on this story tomorrow thanks to everybody for joining us in the garage
for another beer and until tomorrow if you need any True Crime garage go to True Crime
garage.com and thank you Nick thank you Captain thank you no thank you everybody
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The Fifth Nail /// Part 1 /// 118

Part 1 of 2

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Idaho – 2005, A family goes about their normal everyday activities. They didn’t know they were in the midst of a monster. For several nights he lurked outside their home watching them. He was waiting for the perfect time to strike. When he did the crime scene was so horrific law enforcement said it was a crime for which they had never seen. This week we feature a story that investigators called one of the worst in American history.

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Brief Summary

The episode details the murders of three and the abduction of two children in Idaho, focusing on the investigation and key suspects.

Key points

The Fifth Nail Blog. A blog that voices opinions against sex offender registration laws, suggesting criminals are victims too.
Discovery of Murders. Three bodies are found in a home, leading to a search for two missing children.
Concrete Bob Emerges as Suspect. Concrete Bob, a friend of the victims, becomes the primary suspect due to financial ties.
Autopsy Reveals Cause of Death. The autopsies confirm that the victims died from blunt force trauma, not gunshots.
Suspicious Behavior of Steven Grony. The children's father, Steven Grony, raises suspicion with his public statements about the abductors.
Delay in Amber Alert. The Amber Alert for two missing children was delayed for over 48 hours, raising concerns.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I might be the only one who can understand the nature of the demons.

8:56WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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