Ryan Ferguson /// Part 2 /// 117 | Forensic Files

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enough of the business everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
foreign they told me that I was being arrested for a homicide I mean I knew I had never hurt anyone so
I wasn't really too worried about it I believe you testified on Direct you thought Chuck was an odd man
yes yeah you think that's funny I think he's an odd man yes you think that's funny it's not funny
okay I just thought you were smiling I thought you thought it was funny no it's not a funny part well I mean it this is
America if you want to laugh you can no it's not alive I never thought I'd be arrested for a crime I didn't commit
would you would you believe you'd be arrested for a crime you didn't come in I didn't commit one neither did I
[Music] did I all right part two of the Ryan Ferguson case yeah well there you go
Captain you get to hear a few Snippets and little pieces of the trial itself I tell you I tell you what I found parts
of this trial to be incredibly fascinating right there in that clip you are hearing the prosecutor this is Kevin
crane with some back and forth while Ryan Ferguson is on the stand and that's that's Kevin's kind of loud booming
voice that he has that's perfect for a courtroom setting kind of really trying to get under the skin of Ryan Ferguson
kind of picking on him a bit there and I'll tell you what the the best way I could describe Uh Kevin crane the
prosecutor is arrogant yeah but you know the thing about him that that I found strange was that he he almost appears to
be like an actor portraying a prosecutor in a movie or a TV show like that the way he speaks that when he chooses to to
raise his voice and and the way he kind of gestures at things and struts around the courtroom you're right he's he's
very arrogant arrogant but I get the I get the it's like I'm looking at an actor playing a role not a real life
person yeah he's a douchebag playing an [ __ ] so what ends up happening here is that we have the police and the
prosecution they end up offering Chuck Erickson a plea deal in exchange for his testimony against Ferguson at Ryan's
trial the trial doesn't take place until 2005. now along with Chuck Erickson's testimony we also have Jerry Trump
remember he's the janitor working at the Tribune that night now he States and he
testifies at trial that he saw Chuck Erickson and Ryan Ferguson at the scene he says that those are the two men that
he said jumped up from behind Kent's vehicle when he called out into the parking lot that night now how does how
does Jerry Trump arrive at this situation because he wasn't able to identify them early on in
the investigation right and like you stated you know detectives said this guy's not a credible eyewitness yes and
so the thing here is what what Jerry Trump says is that while he was in jail on unrelated charges his wife had sent
him a news article about the crime and he claims that that on that newspaper he saw photos of Chuck Erickson as well as
Ryan Ferguson and immediately recognized them as being the two men that he had saw standing by the vehicle that evening
now so on the witness stand we have this other weird situation where we have Chuck Erickson who was unable to give a
detailed description of the crime or the murder during the the confession quote-unquote confession portion of the
questioning and interrogating uh however once he gets on the stand we see a very
different Chuck Erickson we see a guy that is he's able to give an extremely detailed description of the events of
that night as well studied yeah and as well as a extreme extremely detailed description of Ryan Ferguson strangling
Kent heitholt Chucky might have been a you know a drug user but he you know he has a high level intelligence so he also
liked to just he would just seem like he would like to argue like these intellectual battles with the lawyers
one thing I found strange though when they show um Chuck Erickson walking being escorted
in to the courtroom did you see that part where it looks like he almost turns and kind of stares down
Ryan Ferguson like he like he tries to stare him down like he he goes out of his way to move his head all the way to
his left to kind of just and later on there would be claims that like there'd be claims by Chucky saying hey uh a lot
of the reason to get him to talk about or you know not to confess but to testify against Ryan was because all
these people were saying all these rumors around him were saying Brian was going to throw him under the bus so you
know I'm going to throw you under the bus first so maybe that's why he was staring him down like hey I got you
right now the defense they countered that uh you know all of the evidence found at
the crime scene that night it pointed elsewhere it did not point to Ryan Ferguson uh none of the hair none of the
blood or the fingerprints samples collected at this crime scene that night they they did not match Ryan Ferguson or
Chuck Erickson as a fact and well there's seven fingerprints right on the car seven fingerprints on on Ken's car
and um none of a match they didn't match Erickson they didn't match Ferguson right and there were no traces of of the
victim's blood uh found in the vehicle in Ryan Ferguson's vehicle that he was driving that night of the murder yeah so
it basically comes down to that there's zero evidence against Ryan and there's two witnesses that weren't credible to
begin with that are now somewhat credible I guess and they testify and Ryan actually gets on the stand which is
pretty unheard of in a murder trial and he's convicted them and he's sentenced to what 30 years for I believe
40 years total uh he gets convicted of second-degree murder and robbery now the thing here is though having no evidence
of robbery right and having watched portions of the trial I will admit here captain that seeing Chuck Erickson on
the stand if that is if and I imagine his testimony took a long time because they'd have him acting things out
they're going over question over and over again the thing here is seeing him on the stand it he you you look like
you're you're watching a man that seems 100 certain in everything that he is telling you and not only that he's 100
certain that he himself is guilty right and this is why he's come forward and he's telling on this Ryan Ferguson
character so I can see how the jury was swayed in that way even despite the lack
of evidence but you would think there would be some physical evidence well I think the thing that's hard for us to
understand is when you watch a trial we go how could they find him guilty well remember this jury didn't know him they
didn't see the little Dateline Montage of him growing up and how great of a kid he was and how amazing his calf muscles
were right they don't see that so all they're seeing is a guy that they don't know
and maybe he doesn't I don't think to me as far as like Ryan Ferguson on the stand he comes off as somebody that is
malicious enough to do um what Chucky is saying but Chucky Chucky seems a little odd and when he's making
these actions and and showing how well this is how he punched him and this is and then this is how Ryan strangled him
he looks a little crazy yeah so you know as as as far as the jury's concerned why
wouldn't they believe that this guy is possible you know this guy possibly had something to do with the murders because
he's a little nutcase right well ultimately we get like we said Ryan gets 40 years in prison um we have Chuck
Erickson who gets 20 I believe 25 years was part of his plea agreement with the prosecutor the problem here is Captain
there are some real problems with this story and I'm talking about the story that the police and the prosecutor put
together inside to the jury to ultimately get this conviction so let's go through some problems with the story
okay okay so first off now this is a this is according to free ryanferguson.com uh so I could that
might be a little biased I could see if some people would think it's a little biased but this statement would be
verified later and we'll get into that later okay um so but but the first thing that we
have here is that the the bar itself Remember by George's that's uh the captain's favorite bar
um but George's by George my favorite bar according to employees of the bar as well as a city ordinance and state
statute um that bar closed at 1 30 a.m on that on that Wednesday becoming Thursday
morning right okay so that goes with Ryan's story that goes exactly with Ryan's story he says we were at the bar
till 1 30 and then Ferguson was exactly right I drove Chuck home and then I went
to my house now keep in mind that goes completely against Chucky's story now you got me saying Chucky it goes against
Chuck's story because of Chucky it goes against in two manners right first off they weren't at the bar as late as chuck
had originally stated and second of all they would not be able to come back to the bar at 2 45 a.m and then stay for an
additional hour to an hour and a half dancing and drinking and having a good time because according to the state law
that bar was not open at that time at least proving that one of these statements in his story is a Lie the
next thing that we have to point out is Ryan's phone records we touched upon this in the first episode okay now so
going through this Ryan Ferguson he was he was absolutely on his phone his phone
was being used between 1 41 am and 209 am this now this does not entirely discredit uh Chuck statements right
because Chuck does state that after they left the bar Ryan was on his phone right but it does
confirm it reconfirms Ryan's statements you're exactly right it goes more toward
the way of Ryan's statements have having been true that he went home he was on his phone then he went to bed
okay so now we have Dallas Mallory remember we talked about Dallas Mallory he was
the player player slightly older guy you know a little bit older than the guys uh
Ryan and Chuck and he was the one that they saw at the intersection that night shortly after the murder so Dallas or
females is the only person who can cooperate any part of Chuck's story now in December of 2004 okay that that was
what they got from an affidavit in December of 2004. he later then stated that he was not at he was not at that
intersection that night he had not signed seen either Ryan or Chuck that night furthermore
we have proof that Dallas Mallory did not have a valid driver's license at the time or a vehicle he didn't own a
vehicle he he had had an omvi or DUI whatever they call it in Missouri and he had lost his license due to that and I
believe he sold his car either because he couldn't use it or to pay for some of his illegal fees right so he doesn't
have access to a vehicle he doesn't have a driver's license at that time now furthermore
well the furthermore and furthermore the thing that happens here is well remember
Chuck was able to state that Dallas was wearing a police officer's uniform that night for a Halloween party yeah well
the problem with that is police say well there's your proof that that Dallas Mallory saw those guys at that
intersection the problem with that is later the Ferguson family is able to prove that Dallas Mallory and Chuck
Erickson were at one of the same Halloween parties earlier that night that chuck could be confused and he
actually saw him at a Halloween party I believe there's a photo of the two of them uh we have Dallas Mallory standing
behind Chuck Erickson and Mallory is in full police uniform outfit right so yeah
he black you know Chucky blacks out does a bunch of blow and and and a bunch of other drugs and he blacks out but he
does remember seeing this guy at some point down us and he saw him at some point in a police outfit so that goes
with his story but also proves that it could happen at a different time the other thing that's interesting is the
fact that you know he claims that Dallas stopped at a red light well those lights
aren't red or green at that time of day they're flashing red or flashing yellow so they're flashing yellow
so they're not cycling light right but what I'm saying is if it at an intersection you'll have one section
that's flashing yellow and the other intersection normally flashes red so one will have to proceed with caution the
other one might have to stop depending on the traffic the the way that Dallas was going quote unquote is he would have
been faced with a yellow light so he never would have had a stop yeah I believe so again these are multiple
sources saying that this story is [ __ ] we also have Shauna ornt and we talked about her working at the Tribune
that night now she is called to testify but she never specifically is asked did you see Chuck Erickson and Ryan Ferguson
there that night in the parking lot and what well and what she told the cops and
what she told prosecution is that those were not the the two guys that she saw that night yeah and
she would later State that's why Kevin crane did not specifically ask me that question because he knew I was going to
say no those weren't the two guys that I saw right but doesn't the defense get to
like you know have interviews with these Witnesses and talk to them and and so they would know that if I ask her on the
stand can you point to the person that you saw that night in the courtroom that she would say and I can't because
they're not here right that would have been huge for the defense it would have been a big step in
the right direction for this and they talked a lot about how like he would uh slow draw everything took forever well
it did and you know what I think a big part of that was though Captain lack of preparation uh it was I think it I think
it's partly that but I also think it's a bit of a surprise I think that you had Ericsson on the stand and you had Trump
on the stand that were saying much different things much more detailed things pointing every arrow at your
client and I think it took him by surprise a lot of this information you know what I mean you're handed a lot
of this information uh you're also we also see a situation where they were not handed some information that could have
helped their defense as well so I don't know that I want to go out there and say
you're handed this information no but what I'm saying is that you have a list of these people and and you can
have a somewhat of an idea of what they're going to say and you're listening you get to cross-examine afterwards so
you know I mean so you do have time to prepare as it's happening it's not like you're the first one asking questions is
what I'm saying yeah and then we also have the the possibility of a potential other suspect now remember we talked
about we went through the detailed accounts of that night before we talked about a man named Michael Boyd
um well he's not really investigated he's interviewed but not what I would consider investigated well you should
have been investigated because he was the last person to talk with with Ken so yeah as far as we know that he he's
admitting that he was either the last or second the last person to talk to Kent heitolt that evening and if you go by
his timeline compared to when the 9-1-1 call is placed that almost puts him standing next to or right by Kent at the
time of his murder or very very close to it well yeah look there's there's a ton
of evidence and ton of speculation that's like they got the wrong man but the fact
of the matter is he's convicted and he's in jail and he's sentenced to 40 years now Ryan Ferguson will eventually get to
appeal this conviction and they will have another trial some new things come to light at this trial right but
unfortunately we have a situation where the verdict the guilty verdict is not overturned with this first appeal yeah
even though they brought up you know tons of evidence tons of evidence that shows that the the detectives in the
defense didn't interview I think 11 Witnesses this should have been called in the first trial right yeah and then
in 2009 we have a new character comes into the fold right we have high profile Chicago attorney Kathleen Zellner she
decides to take on Ryan's case uh pro bono and in 2012 well her hard work and her investigators
hard work it pays off because at this point both Chuck Erickson and Jerry Trump basically the two that single that
together took down Ryan Ferguson and got that guilty verdict even though there was no physical evidence
they got them to recant their trial testimony in statements given to both Zellner and her investigator yeah and
just to show you how powerful this is that if you do recant especially because you were in a trial you can be facing
perjury charges and so you could actually do time in prison for this right so as far as like as far as like
the outsider's eyes to me this recanting your statement actually holds a bunch of
weight to me because you're possibly facing you know jail time well Zellner she files and she gets a
habeas corpus hearing so during this hearing this is when both Chuck Erickson and Jerry Trump admitted that they lied
in Ryan Ferguson's trial now Chuck Erickson claimed that the prosecutor this is Kevin crane that he had
pressured him into implicating Ryan uh Chuck testified in the habeas hearing that he does not remember the evening of
the murder because of his heavy drug and alcohol use that night and that he did in fact black out now we also have the
situation where you see Chuck Chuck he comes forward and he originally says that Ryan had nothing to do with this
that he that Chuck was the one that that single-handedly carried out this murder
right but in this hearing he states that he has no memory of that evening just like
he told the police in his original statement now we have Jerry Trump okay who recants as well his story about his
wife sending him the newspaper and him seeing the pictures of the two boys in there uh he actually says that that it
was he saw it wasn't his wife that sent him those new the newspaper that he actually didn't see that newspaper until
he was at Crane's office and crane had showed him the photos from the newspaper and basically which is basically stating
that the prosecutor is helping me create the story to be an eyewitness and that's
illegal yeah and and like we said crane was in some of his own legal troubles at
the time uh probably thought that you know I don't want to pick a fight with the prosecutor with this very aggressive
prosecutor um and you know stating that crane told him something like it would be help for
to the state it would be helpful for Jerry Trump if he could identify the two guys at the crime scene one then Michael
Boyd's going to come back into the story as well this is the co-worker that claims that he talked to Kent right you
know seconds before he's murdered and uh his story has changed like five times yeah Zellner uh Ferguson's attorney will
point out you know to to the to the trial that that we have these conflicting stories that have changed
time and time again as well as she's going to point out that timeline that we talked about earlier that because of
some of Boyd's own words that places him with Kent eitholt at the time these are
her words at the time of his murder well weren't they also able to present evidence that that proved that there was
evidence withheld from the defense correct yes this would have been some of those eyewitnesses that you stated that
that were called in this hearing one of them being Ken Kim Bennett she was a person that was at the bar that night at
by George's that night the prosecution did not tell the defense about speaking with Kim Kim Bennett now
Kim why did they not tell them because Kim Bennett told the prosecutor that she was at the bar that night and she left
sometime between 1 15 and 1 30 a.m and during that time that she left she saw Ryan Ferguson and Chuck Erickson get
into Ryan's vehicle and drive off at that at that same time right which would go with Ryan Ferguson's story yeah the
other person that they didn't that they failed to tell the defense about was a guy by the name of Mike shook well who
is he well he's very important to this case in my opinion because he is an employee at the Buy George's Bar
and uh he testifies at this hearing that the bar in fact did close at 1 30 a.m and that he did not let anybody back
into the bar after the bar had closed this again would disprove Chuck Erickson's story well yeah let's call
what it is you know Chucky and the police's story so now Captain we also have Shauna ort
um and we talked about her quite a bit so I won't go through the whole thing but during this hearing we do get get to
hear her State why she thinks um that she not only why she thinks that she wasn't asked to directly identify
Ryan Ferguson because we know that answer but furthermore she states that her interaction with the prosecutor
Kevin crane she found him to be what she called threatening uh that he constantly
was asking her to implicate Ryan Ferguson as being one of the people that she had seen in the parking lot the
night of the murder and she time and time again would not and he became very aggressive and almost threatening to her
right and like she stated from the beginning telling the police officers telling the prosecution that's not the
guys I saw that night not the guys I saw and then you got this prosecutor you know the one that's a douchebag playing
an [ __ ] being aggressive and and basically threatening hey you need to say that this was Ryan and she wouldn't
do it it's weird to me that he would even put her on the stand but um well but who knows luckily for for
Ryan that the uh this conviction is eventually vacated uh this would be in 2000 late
2013. uh he was soon after released from prison and exonerated of all charges yeah and this this was a lengthy you
know we kind of skipped over it but if we went through every single trial and every single appeal there was a bunch of
failed attempts and probably a lot of that had to do with the fact that the prosecutor became a judge and this is
one of his big cases and that would go against the whole system then the whole system's bad that the cops are bad the
prosecutor's bad and now the prosecutor is a judge so therefore the system uh is
is failed yeah so and I'll tell you what and I know that the conviction is overturned but we're not going to finish
there because what I want to do next Captain after this beer break let's go through this because what happens here
is we have a conviction overturned now this presents a whole bunch of other questions you know what really did
happen that night so let's let's answer those questions after this quick beer break
[Music] all right we're back cheers everybody cheers mates cheers so here's how we're
gonna do the second half of this thing now yesterday when I was hanging out in the garage with the captain I told him
you know I'm gonna bring with me tomorrow some questions that I kind of just want the two of us to talk through
together want to hear his opinion give my opinion and kind of walk us through this case a bit and maybe come up with
some answers here because with with Ryan Ferguson being let go exonerated now to
me there's all kinds of questions in this case uh but to be fair I should point out that the captain has not been
told in advance about these questions so we're gonna I'll start you off with question number one Captain
um do you think that Ryan Ferguson actually committed this crime or was involved in this crime but somehow got
lucky and ends up getting off my I don't believe so I think he is a kid of good character not a kid anymore obviously
and there's no physical evidence and so I mean he was convicted on basically two lies that that's my thoughts on it
well I I agree with you uh the the only time I kind of questioned uh his guilt um was like like what I said with um
Erickson's demeanor on the stand I questioned it a little bit but having seen the actual confession tapes and the
interrogation tapes that kind of discredits that 100 but also seeing the composite drawing that was provided by
Shauna um it to me it actually looked somewhat like a mashing if you took if you took
Chuck's face and you took Ryan's face and kind of smushed them together that it would look somewhat like like the
both of them however she outwardly states that these are not the guys that I saw that night and there's no question
in her mind so to me I gotta go with what she said well when they right but when they also say
I think the first thing for me that I went oh that's a little odd is when they claim that
one of the people they saw had an athletic build and a lot of 17 year olds are not going to have this noticeably
athletic build and Ryan did so that was kind of the first thing that made me go ah and I see
your point that Chucky was very convincing on the stand and that's probably why he was found
guilty was based off of Chucky but let's just go with the whole fact that you know he was coached up by crane
who's coached up by the prosecution he was coach coached up from the beginning when he went to come in and confess he
was coached up and the the word go of the confession so yeah of course he he's an expert on what
he has had conversations about but these weren't things that actually happened uh question number two okay uh you know
Ryan Ferguson in our opinion Didn't Do It um he's been exonerated I think rightfully so
um but do you think that Charles or Chuck Erickson did have some involvement or like he did say at one time committed
the crime completely by himself if we go by Ryan Ferguson's timeline which we believe to be true that they left the
bar at 1 30 a.m he was able to return Chuck to his home and continue on to his own home and get there by 140 then it's
conceivable that chuck could have returned to the parking lot of the Daily Tribune in time to commit the murder
yeah but again with his confession and yeah it's two years later and and Chucky has a drug problem but
or had a drug problem um he might still have one in jail who knows but again lack of lack of evidence physical
evidence there you know there's never any talk about DNA but you would you would think that you'd have at least
some kind of DNA on the Belt and and again they're not bringing it up so let's just assume it's not there
seven fingerprints on the car not one of them match Chucky not one of a match Ryan so is it is it possible that he got
dropped off by Ryan and he was in this uh coked out state in this uh alcoholic State and he just went out looking for
more it's possible but again where's the evidence yeah and he doesn't even you know I said
that somewhat the facial thing could look like the composite drawing but he doesn't physically you know his height
and his weight and his build do not match what is described by Shauna there the person that she describes is several
inches taller than him uh several pounds heavier than him maybe 20 30 pounds heavier than him
um and if and his motive doesn't make any sense yeah plus his his what he claims he was
wearing that night does not match the description of the clothing that Shauna gives at all
um that evening as well uh the thing here too regarding Chuck like I pointed out in the I don't recall if it was
earlier this episode or if it was late yesterday's episode but the the whole process about the interrogation I want
to not drink so much the whole process of the interrogation where the the detective wrongfully says that that
Kent was hit 15 times with this object and he gets he gets chucked to agree to 15 being the
number right uh it's obvious to me not only does Chuck not know how many times Kent was hit with this object neither
does the detective so I think that uh that clears up up Chuck for me again weird with the with no skull fracture
that's that's an odd thing to me and when when they're at trial and Chuck is describing how he hit
uh Kent and how how forcefully and how fast he says that he hit him and in that overhand motion right
um I I struggled to believe that if they were using a tire iron or some kind of tire changing tool that they got from
Ryan's trunk that or that he brought on his own that hitting with that velocity that he that he would not be able to
that there would be no skull fracture seems very strange to me yeah um this is kind of an out of the box
question for you Captain but um do you think that there is something wrong with Chuck or Charles
yes and I don't know a chicken or the egg I don't know if it was something was wrong with them mentally so he was then
self-medicating through drugs and alcohol and then that led him to the point where
he's at now because he definitely seems a lot clearer these days um but yeah so which one was it the
chicken the egg or what you know did he start using drugs and that created some mental problems for him I think he's not
all there yeah I get the vibe that there's some kind of personality or social some kind of disorder there maybe
it's undiagnosed we do know that the prison system does not do a great job of checking on people's mental health right
in situations like that um yeah and just being confined to that space is going to do a number on your
mental health anyways and I understand that I'm observing his life on small sample sizes you know over the course of
a period of time over the course of 10 years or so right but what I saw is I'm seeing almost a different person
every time right did you get that Vibe like yeah but let's let's be honest I mean crime would happen when he's 17. he
would confess when he was 19. so that's when we first start seeing this 1921 is first trial of Ryan Ferguson so that
would be the first time we'd see him and then you're seeing him later you know the other trials you know three years
after that five years after that so I mean you're going from a 19 year old you know to 20 some year old that that's a
whole different world no and I I agree and that's why I pointed it out that I'm talking about him over the course of a
period of time because I agree that physically and mentally and emotionally he's changing and adapting uh throughout
the course of time however to me I felt like I was seeing whoever he decided to be or whoever he was told to
be in that moment yeah and meaning when he is interrogated or when he's especially when he's being driven around
and questioned about the locations of things and where they went he to there me he looks like the confused person
that he believed he was right he looked like a blank canvas that knew nothing that had nothing on it and was going to
wait for people to apply their own impressions when I see him at the trial that you
gotta admit that's a 180 degree change right there it's not just a guy that goes first trial yeah not just the guy
that goes from knowing nothing to knowing everything there's like a certain amount of hate in his eyes and
it almost looks to me like there's there's hate in his eyes for Ryan Ferguson you know like I said it
appeared to me like he kind of tried to stare him down as he walked into the into the courtroom and as he was sitting
there on the stands you see somebody that's very aggressive he can't wait for the prosecutor to get the words out of
the prosecutor's mouth to start answering his questions well again but if that speculation is true and what he
is saying is they have inmates talking to him and I wouldn't put it past the cops going hey let's tell some of these
inmates that Ryan's going to turn on him and we're going to get Chucky all nervous right so yeah maybe it was like
you know uh yeah I know we kind of I kind of got us into this mess and I don't really know what happened that day
but uh you want to throw me under the bus look Chucky is not an idiot he he actually seems like he's actually a
pretty bright guy he likes to challenge he likes to debate probably would have made a pretty good lawyer but at the end
but at the end of the day he's a little nutso so that little nutso turned into uh I gotta get this guy before he gets
me but while he's on stand he you're he seems like a man of conviction you know what I mean of a man that said you know
I've done something wrong and this is the only way I can make it right and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go
down fighting if I have to but I'm going to make this right yeah Chucky is so weird to me because one you have this
ridiculous story that doesn't make any sense and you don't even have it you don't even have any of the details
and then you come forward they hand you the details now this guy's in jail you're in jail a couple years later you
feel so bad because you don't know if Ryan was there so you put the whole blame on yourself and then that kind of
helps out Ryan but at the end of the day neither one of you probably were there and Brian Ferguson's story is probably
true so you know I I feel for the guy because like I said there is something off there
definitely has some intelligence but something is definitely wrong there I agree and I'm I'm glad that you saw it
too because I was thinking maybe maybe I'm kind of weird and just seeing something that's not there but it's
weird but I saw it again when when he changed his story to that Chuck was the only one guilty and then later when he
changes the story back to I don't remember anything of that night I swear when I look at him and he says
that the final time I see in his eyes and I almost see his face of that of that 19 year old boy again of
that of that blank canvas that just truly didn't know what was going on and is waiting to be told what actually
happened that night um we should point out though right that Charles Erickson remains imprisoned yeah
which is it's a cry man it's a crime as as much look Ryan Ferguson is definitely
the All-American boy you know he he's a good looking guy he's physically fit apparently his calves are incredible
incredible incredible Cavs I think he does like some Fitness stuff now like Spartan races and stuff like that
um smart kid uh seemed to always do the right thing was involved in in athletics
and stuff like that and yes Eric got them into this mess but he's like the Forgotten one oh great we got Ryan out
okay that's great but we still have somebody convicted of this murder and we all know and the
system knows that Chucky didn't do this right so that's a crime in itself and then you got to put on top of that
there's a victim in all this right right there's a guy that we we don't know what
the motive of his murder was and it was a vicious murder I mean this guy was held down probably had a foot on his
chest and somebody's choking the life out of him with his own belt and and and Kent deserves better than that and yes
I'm glad that the justice system uh you know made uh wrong a right and yeah I'm sorry that Ryan had to spend time in
jail that's Injustice I believe so but it's Injustice that Chucky's Behind Bars it's an injustice that we're not
investigating the case to solve the murder of Ken yeah and we should point out too that Ryan has said that he you
know he wants to help Chuck or or who's going by Charles now he wants to help Charles with his release from prison as
well even though like you said you know Ryan ends up in prison because of Charles yeah
um and you know he said that he will continue Ryan will continue to fight uh for the innocent people that are in
prison including Charles Erickson one of the things that you can tell that makes
Ryan such a good dude is one Trump which lies right um lies on trouble Jerry Trump lies on
the yeah let's not make this blizzard let's not start a fight oh man you don't want that fight yeah you don't want to
you want to fight you don't want to fight the man with small hands oh what I'm saying though is is he forgives
Jerry Trump Jerry Trump has had his uh trials he's you know not a good guy anybody that
anybody that is um anybody that has crimes against children I can't have their back but what Ryan says is he can
forgive Jerry for lying right he also forgives Chucky so I think that's a sign of of a pretty
um self-intuitive person now I don't think he forgives crane at all but that's just that's my opinion
but so I I think it's good Ryan anybody if you if you're invested in this case at all do as much as you can to help
Chucky out because he's just going to be there well and crane is sort of the Puppet Master right and it's hard to
it's really tough to forgive the Puppet Master you can forgive the puppets but you don't forgive the Puppet Master yeah
but in Crane's defense you are handed a case based off of the detectives there is no case
um now he should have from the word go say I'm looking at these tapes and this doesn't line up and no thank you I'm not
I'm not running with this case the cops should stop this from from you know two years they had nothing that's
fine but but you didn't get anything afterwards got a bunch of false stuff and when they
should just be lined up taped against the wall and just let me punch the face for a while because they kept on saying
stuff like well I'm not interested in that I'm just interested in the truth no you're not you stupid piece of [ __ ]
you're not interested in the truth what I was saying is it's it should have stopped at the detectives it should have
stopped there and and when they when none of the pieces of the puzzle were fitting you stop and they deserve
punched in the face all right let's let's shift gears here for a second okay so uh Captain with without naming names
or pointing fingers or or doing a whodunit type thing uh do you think that this was a premeditated murder or do you
think this is you know unplanned uh I don't know if it I don't know either way I don't look because
obviously it was a vicious attack and I don't think that needed you know a vicious attack needs to be planned or
not and also I think the evidence of maybe it's not planned is who would who would get in an argument or a tussle
with a guy and plan on uh you know choking them to death with the guy's own belt yeah I mean that'd be kind of a
weird plan to come up with you bring up a very good point there um you know and to further that point
it's you know that you're attacking a large man with an object that we've pointed out time and time again was not
strong enough to create a skull fracture or with not enough Force to create some
kind of fracture that that seems like you said a bad plan it doesn't seem to be a well thought out plan to bring that
kind of weapon there and then um obviously you can't plan on using somebody's belt to strangle them uh you
know especially a man of his size how are you going to get that belt off of him well it's very odd to me that the
police came up with the motive of robbery when there's not really much science well robbery the way that the
way that I understand it is they only came up with the motive of robbery after the fact after having spoken to Charles
Erickson about the crime and why he would have done the crime right but instead of trying to make the pieces of
the puzzle fit they're creating their own pieces yeah and so when they're in the first investigation part of the of
the investigation early in the investigation they don't really have a motive to work off of uh other than
looking for those two quote-unquote College age Caucasian males right so what would be some motives I mean you
know maybe he's having an affair with somebody um maybe you know maybe it's maybe it is
just random but like I said there's no sign of of robbery and so you're just gonna so the motive is just I was
walking down the street and saw this guy and decided I want to choke him to death
with his own belt uh maybe he had a gambling problem to me the choking the guy to death with his own belt seems
very violent very vicious almost like you're trying like that was a statement piece and so did he I mean he was a
sports writer was he into gambling I'm not for sure well okay so you you brought up motive
the problem with motive for me kind of Cycles back into is this premeditated or unplanned
um here's what I think here's what I see anyway um I I see somebody like you said this this
strangling the way that it went down is very vicious so that to me either points
to somebody that had a very deep hatred for this man and wanted to kill him that
would imply that it's premeditated or that this was some kind of Rage that there was some kind of argument or some
kind of incident that took place and it was you know Split Second rage that took
this person over and they raged so hard they didn't cause a fracture though right and so you
know you ask I've asked myself how would this person come in possession of a belt
that was on the man that they attack I've heard Bill Ferguson he pointed out something uh that was interesting he
said that his daughter came up with the theory and remember we pointed out the size of Kent height hold he was he was a
large man he was not only tall but he was big Burly and the thing is she his daughter said to him you know well maybe
you know sometimes with larger people they will especially men they will undo their belt uh in certain situations when
they're getting ready to sit down we know that Kent was leaving potentially leaving for the evening he could be
driving home maybe he found it uncomfortable to drive with his belt on and that was something that he typically
did and that would make the belt easy for the person that committed the crime to to take it off
um so that's that's an interesting thought there my my thought too though would be is there a chance that Kent was
looking for a weapon and undid his belt in an attempt to use it as some kind of weapon we know that whoever he was you
know arguing with whoever he's having an incident with or whoever decided to attack him already has a weapon maybe he
feels if I can get a weapon I can better defend myself and removes his own Bell or attempts to remove his own yeah or
like you said I mean he's he's just unbuckling his belt to get in his car he gets attacked and then just pulls it out
um but I I don't know the other thing too is like you said we're not going to name
any names but we might as well well we're going to have to well Michael Boyd right we have to name Michael Boyd but
look here's something that people should take a clue on I think when Ryan was losing all his appeals they needed to
find the person right yeah they didn't have enough they didn't have enough they couldn't check enough boxes to get him
acquitted on his own that they needed to check the box of oh by the way here's the guy that did it
and I think they went after him and the and the media went after him and yeah he
changed some of his stories I don't know if he's innocent I don't know if he's guilty but here's what I do know is
anything that once Ryan was released anything when they're talking about this case they don't mention Michael Boyd and
I think they do so for probably legal reasons because if you don't have a bunch of evidence then you can't be
naming this guy as this Prime Suspect if he's not well and as we said Michael Boyd was interviewed but not quote
unquote investigated and you know people that don't know much about this case are
going to go well why was he not investigated he was one of the last people to speak with the victim well my
only guess is this is that you know they were told to be looking for two Caucasian guys Michael Boyd is
African-American um therefore and there's only one of him yes and there's only one of him so he
doesn't become their immediate suspect um that's probably why he was not investigated early on now I do want to
throw this out there too at you captain and I'm not going to comment on the competence of the police department or
the detectives involved in this case because I I don't have a full understanding of their investigation
into the murder of Kent iolt I only have an understanding of the portions that involve Ryan Ferguson and Charles
Erickson right okay so during that we have two years before we get to those guys now one thing here is we have a
parking lot we have several employees inside the building you know when when you first look at this case if you don't
know anything about it you kind of assume that maybe there's this one dude working all by himself and he walks out
into a dark parking lot in the middle of the night and helping happens to get randomly attacked
it's not so much that we have a building that's got several people in it in a parking lot that has portions that are
well lit and we have two very obvious security cameras on the building right so what that would make one think is
well those security cameras were not working this guy's killed in a parking lot where anybody inside the building
could potentially see the attack first off anybody Manning those cameras or watching those videos could potentially
see or have evidence video footage of who committed the murder Who would know that those cameras were
not working well you would then assume it would be somebody working in that building yeah because they know that the
cameras weren't working yeah and I hope and I don't know that they did or did not and that's why I won't comment on
the competence on their competence regarding this investigation but you have fingerprints you have that hair if
those those should be and I hope that they were tested against employees that worked in that building well and also
the belt there's going to be DNA there should you would expect to see some DNA there's at least touch DNA so I I'm
hoping that they they tested that against the employ the employees that were working that night and have somehow
cleared them it'd be nice to know that if they've done that um we've not heard they're done you're
not going to hear anything about this because there's a guy that sits in jail that's accused of the murder so this
case is closed my friend they're not going to look into it and I'm afraid you might be right on that and also so look
it's you know Kent was a chubby white dude you know sports reporter that's the there's so many Injustice
here you know like I said I again we can't we can't speculate on the investigation but they had nothing so
then you get a little bite and they ran with it but they ran too hard too fast and they didn't do their due diligence
and they didn't view this as we need Justice we need truth like they said you need truth and then they hand it off to
a prosecutor trying to make a name for himself and all the name you made my friend was [ __ ] stain that's what you
are your judge [ __ ] stain now and then you have two innocent kids that you know
have basically been locked up since they're 19 and then on top of that again if Michael Boyd had nothing to do with
it you have media running his name through the mud and making him look like he's a piece of [ __ ] and we have really
no evidence of that you know because did they test his fingerprints did those match was their DNA nobody knows so
that's an injustice and then at the end of the day we got Kent that you know somebody's locked up for
his crime so nobody gives a [ __ ] and then and that I think when I first saw a documentary on this or a dateline or
something on this I I was really frustrated but it was only a single you know singular frustration that this
innocent kid that could have been me or you or anybody that we grew up with charged with this vicious crime and then
sitting in jail for almost 10 years when they're innocent 10 years of their life being lost in how that affects
their family but now I don't know how how many years later after seeing that documentary
it's like my frustration has grown with the whole that whole system and there needs to be bigger checks and
balances like I said there needs to be if if a detective is going to interrogate if the detective is going to
make up falsities or give out details that they shouldn't give out that you know makes the you know makes the
confession null and void there needs to be better checks and balances yeah and I think that the you know the
defense team should have been able to do a better job of presenting the way that
that interrogation went down to the jury than what they did yeah but again that's
null and void if you don't even get to the trial because you should have never got to the trial I uh no I agree 100
um as far as Michael Boyd's name goes um has it been drugged through the mud yes uh it's not it's not Uh Kevin
Crane's fault that his name has been drugged through the mud in my opinion it's the it's been the attorneys for
Ryan Ferguson that has brought his name up time and time again it's the online community that's kept his name running
uh We've mentioned his name here too so we're just as guilty as anybody else so on that topic do you think Michael Boyd
uh for you it would be considered Prime Suspect number one uh I mean look he's the he's in the same
location roughly about the time of the murder so I think his story is very important
the problem is he's changed it multiple times so um I don't think him necessarily
changing it means that he's instantly guilty but why are you changing the story bud you know like just tell the
truth stick with the truth again though a lot of the I feel for the guy because a lot of this stuff is them questioning
him years and years later so maybe by going through the events you you kind of remember things a little differently
you know what I'm saying right like obviously you he would remember that night more than most people but what was
what were his statements right afterwards you know what I mean uh so I I don't know uh yeah I uh
for me I don't know that I would put him as my number one suspect I don't have a
number one suspect to be honest with you he would be somebody a person that I would want to talk to yeah of
interesting he might be able to lead you down the right rabbit hole and I think you have enough evidence that was
collected at the scene to either clear him or maybe bring up charges on him uh the thing that I the thing that I can't
get over though is there was a blood trail that led near the alley or all the way to the alley from the parking lot
okay so a couple issues with that blood trail one could could Michael Boyd have left
that potentially left that blood trail his car was parked somewhat in that area it's it's possible it's possible but the
way that I've heard this Blood Trail described I've never seen pictures of it I so I so I don't want anybody to go
crazy on this but the way I've heard it described was that it was a mess of a blood trail which would imply to me that
it was created by more than one person we do have we do have Shauna ort saying she saw two people and we do know that
they they ran off in that area after they called for help I Am with You Captain I do find it very strange that
that that somebody would attack somebody and then say call for help um so what I'm getting at is you have
two situations to me I think it boils down to two situations you either have a situation where wait hold on where these
guys stumbled go ahead I was just going to say unless it's one attacker and two guys were walking up and they came up to
help the guy runs off and then all of a sudden you're going hey call for help call for help and then you're like
[ __ ] we gotta get out of here yeah and you've gotten blood all over your shoes
at this point and you've taken off right you might maybe you have a prior you know and you were just trying to look
it's different if you've been behind bars before you might go up to help somebody and the cops come and you go
[ __ ] I'm out of here I'm not messing with those guys again well and if you see the way that they handled the
Charles Erickson Ryan Ferguson situation that does not inspire you to come forward at any time soon and say I was
there and I stumbled upon this guy he was attacked I told them to call for help and then I left because I was drunk
or because I didn't want to be in the area when this thing went down or I was afraid I was afraid that the whoever did
this was still lurking in the in the parking lot right um the big problem I have is something
that you asked earlier motive I I struggle to find a motive for Michael Boyd to have done this as well as I
struggle to see any motive at all uh for this to have taken place from everything
I read about Kent he he seemed to be a great guy well liked at work well liked in in the community
um you know I know we don't know much about these people when we when we look into these crimes we only get to see
little Snippets and little small sample sizes of their life but I struggle to find any kind of
motive here this almost seems to me as some kind of random crazy attack and I think that that is a big problem that
has hindered this investigation that there's there is lack of motive there is lack of reasoning and why anybody would
commit this crime yeah again I mean like being involved in sports I would I'd want to know his background if he had
any gambling problems there so to me that would explain how vicious of attack it was and it would explain why
they used his belt you know uh even look I mean he could have been taken off his
belt but again I to me that's like it's like making a statement yeah I really just get the feeling here like I said no
motive I feel like he he came across somebody or somebody's and there there was some kind of altercation that broke
out into a fight I think he tried to defend himself in the in the person or person's
um you know for a lack of better word went went crazy on him went homicidal on him and and this ended up being uh the
result unfortunately well overall it's a sad case it was sad for Ryan and his family I think it's sad you know again
for Chucky and I hope uh I hope Ryan does stick by his word and and tries to help him as much as he can because I
think he has the loudest voice and the biggest platform of anybody on this case um you know and look I'm all for good
police officers good detectives good prosecutors I you know I want to believe in the system but you know time and time
again you'll see these cases where the system fails all of us it doesn't it didn't just fail right
it failed everybody involved and and then essentially fails us and you're right and and while you're pointing out
who this was sad for it was it was sad for you everyone the Columbia Community and involved as well including the the
Tribune as well the the employees there that worked with Kent but as you were touching upon Captain it was a sad
display for our justice system as well it it failed us that day it failed so far as failed Kent Ryan and Charles
Erickson as well and I also do want to point out reiterate that you know we have Ryan stating that Charles has his
support that he has Charles's back he's going to continue to work to get some of
these people out of prison that are innocent including Charles we also have the Ferguson family who has offered a
ten thousand dollar reward for any tips that would lead to solving the murder of
Kent heithold which I think shows the the compassion as well as character of the Ferguson family yeah and if you're
interested in supporting Ryan at all for you know him being in jail for 10 years
wrongfully convicted um check out Ryan Ferguson Fitness and you can.com ryanfergusonfitness.com and you can
follow him on all social media I know he wrote some books and I think maybe he has another one coming out this year
maybe speaking of books how about some recommended reading here Captain this week we are recommending Queen City
Gothic Cincinnati's most in Infamous murder mysteries by JT Townsend I've met Mr Townsend once brilliant guy great
writer we had a little Zodiac Killer debate but anyway Queen City Gothic is fascinating it's a fantastic book and JT
Townsend takes us on a Sinister journey through 13 cases which took place in Cincinnati Ohio between 1904 and 1971
including the murder Zone killer the bride in the casket and Terror in The Gaslight District if you like Ohio
criminal history or just cold cases in general then you must have Queen City Gothic in your home library and you can
pick that up and add it to your library by going to True Crime garage.com and click on the recommended page we have
our Amazon Banner on there which you can use to purchase any of the books or movies that we have listed we will see
you back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't litter foreign
[Music]

Ryan Ferguson /// Part 2 /// 117

Part 2 of 2

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We all know that a lot of crazy things can happen on Halloween night but maybe none as crazy as this. In 2001 a couple of High School students were out enjoying several Halloween parties. The partying took them into the early morning hours of November 1st. One of them was so intoxicated he could not remember what took place Halloween night. In the same area of town a man leaving work after 2am was beaten and strangled to death in a parking lot. Several dreams about the murder and one phone call led to the arrests of the teenagers. One of them confessed and the other was convicted of murder.

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Brief Summary

Ryan Ferguson's wrongful conviction is examined, highlighting witness credibility issues and the prosecutor's tactics leading to his eventual exoneration.

Key points

Ryan Ferguson's Arrest. Ryan shares his disbelief about being arrested for a crime he didn't commit.
Lack of Evidence. Discussion on the absence of physical evidence linking Ryan to the crime.
Recanting Testimonies. Witnesses recant their statements, raising questions about the trial's integrity.
Witnesses Recant Testimonies. Chuck Erickson and Jerry Trump admit to lying about their involvement in the case.
Prosecutor's Misconduct Revealed. Jerry Trump claims the prosecutor pressured him to create a false narrative.
Ryan Ferguson's Exoneration. Ryan Ferguson's conviction is overturned, raising questions about the actual events of the murder.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I never thought I'd be arrested for a crime I didn't commit.

Testimony about the arrest experience

3:52WatchDec 6, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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