Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders /// Part 2 /// 266 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
for listening I'm your host and with me as always is a man that gets paid by the
garage weekly very weekly he is the captain you know crime don't pay it's good to be seen and it's good to see you
thanks for listening and thanks for telling my friend [Music] this week we are drinking anytime
minutes by The Willows family ales garage great three and three quarter bottle caps out of five there is no need
to wait for a certain time of day to enjoy a great beer especially when that beer is anytime minutes double IPA I
like to start at 6 a.m this is a juicy beer with razor sharp Hops and this week's beer was brought to us by these
sharp individuals first up we have drew Morton in Los Angeles and a big shout out to Anthony in Ringold Georgia next
up a shout out to Sean in low burrow he says he is the original Captain original
doesn't mean the best and the big we like egyptus Sandra and Pickerington Ohio go Tigers and a big big thank you
to Kim in Houston Texas and last but certainly not least we have Pamela and Griswold Iowa so thanks to all of you
for going to truecrimegarage.com and clicking on that donate button if you want to help us out with next week's
beer run you do the same thing bwe Double R you win beer run and that's enough the B is me all right everybody
gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] let's take a few minutes to talk about
these poor little girls Denise Milner was 10 years old and the only African-American girl at Camp Scott
she originally was excited to go to camp and sold a lot of cookies to help raise
money but became nervous just before leaving a counselor that rode the bus to Camp
with her said that she was very quiet and her mother asked if Denise could be allowed to call home the next day since
she was very hesitant to go once she got to Camp Scott we know Denise was homesick Denise's father was
a Tulsa police officer Denise was involved in a lot of activities including tap dancing singing and
gymnastics Betty Milner her mother related what happened to her when she found out when
her daughter was dead saying they told me Denise is dead she and two other girls I asked if it
was an accident adding I could accept an accident then they told me she had been beaten to
death Betty was the one that urged her daughter to go to Camp that's probably something that weighs on her pretty
heavily Lori farmer was very mature for her age the blonde-haired brown-eyed little girl skipped a grade because she
was so advanced Lori was just eight years old but her birthday was in June and her parents
Beau and Sherry plan to visit their daughter at camp on her special day Sherry farmer said her husband Beau
arrived back from his overnight shift at a hospital said he looked awful ghost white then
she noticed he wasn't alone with him was his colleague Dr Anderson Anderson spoke first he said Sherry you
need to sit down and I said no I'm not going to sit he said Lori is dead where do you put that in your brain there is
no place to put that she said Sherry has been haunted by her daughter's final moments in the presence
of one or more killers Lori's led her home written that night reads quote I've met two new friends I'm sharing a tent
with them we're sleeping on cots I couldn't wait to write love Lori since her daughter's death Sherry farmer
has taken up the cause of victims rights over the past four decades she has met spoken to and counseled thousands of
people in classes seminars and one-on-one together with her husband farmer also started a parents of murder
children's chapter in Oklahoma farmer said quote if you have something bad happen ask yourself how can this
help anybody else yeah they constantly say when you feel bad about your situation then give service to others
and through that you'll feel positivity Michelle gussay was nine years old when she left for Camp Scott which she
attended and loved the previous Summer she was also into soccer she left explicit instructions to her parents to
water her plants while she was gone her parents said that they were told that their daughter had been killed but they
learned of actual circumstances of her death from the TV news after Michelle's death her father threw himself into
victims rights efforts in Oklahoma becoming a leading voice and volunteer of the crime victim and witness Bill of
Rights a package of laws adopted by State Legislature from there gussay was appointed by the governor to the crime
victim's compensation board which was created in that effort he said quote this is my commitment to
our situation gussay said in 1994 after 13 years of never missing a board meeting
stated because of my daughter maybe the world will be a little better place to be hopefully some good is coming out of
this on June 23rd 1977 10 days after the murders Mays County district attorney Sid wise called a news conference a
suspect he said was being charged with the murders this is a 33 year old Jean Leroy Hart a
Locust Grove native and Cherokee Indian Hart was already familiar to authorities
a convicted rapist and burglar he was a two-time prison escapee and was on the run for four years since his second
escape from the mays County Jail in 1973. well it doesn't seem like he was so much on the run but when he got out
he was kind of protected by the reservations well his his previous convictions uh they the sentences for which totaled
more than 300 plus years yeah he was now facing three first-degree murder charges
wise announced wise said that items found in a cave close to Camp Scott were connected to Hart who was believed to be
hiding in the area well yeah Hart's mother lived roughly a mile from the campground but there was also a cave
that they believed that heart was staying in yeah wise added that the heart had the advantage in eluding law
enforcement and that he was an expert Woodsman and had many family members living in the area and so the Manhunt
that would go down as the largest in State history began the hunt for heart Fanning out for Miles through tick and
snake infested Hill Country and involved a 600 person Army of Searchers and dogs
and aircraft well they had to do is start sniffing to see if they could smell that piece of
[ __ ] a physical description of Gene Hart began to appear daily in media reports
he's five foot ten inches tall weighs about 220 pounds black hair brown eyes smells like Duke in the days after the
heart was a suspect announcement the atmosphere was emotionally charged with hundreds of volunteers getting into
fights and showing up armed and or drunk American Indian movement the aim officials came in to make sure people
didn't start just quote shooting Indians the Oklahoma highway patrol special weapons and tactics team got involved
and by June 29th 40 FBI agents had arrived despite Hart being a convicted double rapist many in Mays County
doubted Hearts guilt he was seen by many as a scapegoat for the white establishment a quote handy suspect yeah
well this is [ __ ] anyways because he escaped from prison he raped and tortured women before
then his community the Indian Community claimed that well he actually didn't rape them and didn't torture them that
that they were trying to escape from their husbands Hart's mother told reporters quote my boy didn't do it and
Sheriff Weaver wants to frame him because he don't like Indians the idea that Hart was being targeted
because he was an Indian struck a chord with many in the area which had a large American Indian population
when Hart was charged in the killings his friends and relatives believing he was innocent closed ranks around him
according to someone cry for the children Hart had 250 relatives living within a half mile square area and they
were more than willing to help him other sympathizers agreed that sheriff Weaver
had a personal grudge against heart but they thought it was because Hart had escaped twice from his jail
those escapes former journalist Mike wheat believes had helped create an aura of mystery about heart quote he had
become this folklorish kind of character a local Legend said wheat heart seemed to be able to appear and disappear at
will wheat said well and I'm sure look I'm sure in that area and in that time there's plenty of crimes that were not
committed by an Indian the Indian person did the time for that crime I'm sure there was some kind of racial bias there
um but this guy because of being able to escape from prison he seemed to become a
legend people seem to actually believe that Hart was capable of shape-shifting according to Legend and ability that
some Cherokees may have I have that ability this some believed is how he escaped prison twice and continued to
elude capture heart was also a local football star he had excelled in high school and was considered to be of NFL
caliber somehow he took on the reputation of a hero which did not help investigators trying to get people to
turn him in so through the summer of 1977 agents used tracking dogs ground Searchers and
aerial heat-seeking equipment to hunt for heart it's like they were chasing a ghost or
like Bigfoot one of the agents Harvey Pratt a Cheyenne Arapaho was a firm believer in American Indian mysticism
someone cry for the children quotes Pratt is saying quote the Indians in this part of Oklahoma believe that
medicine men have medicine so strong that they can change themselves into birds or animals or give someone else
this power yes to the shape-shifting or or Skin Walkers as they may be called right so when Hart was in prison
you know being a piece of [ __ ] for them being in jail for the the the rapes he
turned he shape-shifted into diarrhea and he slid right through those bars well all of this just simply added to
the Mystique about art and there were rumors that he was under the protection of tribal medicine men
this explained not only his elusiveness many believe but other strange happenings in and around the Manhunt
like the deaths of two of the law enforcement tracking dogs they were said to have been cursed by
someone authorities or they put out poison for the dogs well the authorities became
desperate and on its front page August 3rd 1977 the Tulsa World addressed an open letter to Heart urging him to
surrender the letter included the governor's personal guarantee ensuring heart security and a fair trial but this
did not work so let's talk about what led law enforcement to Heart you've already
brought up his previous convictions so we have Sheriff Weaver and we also have agent Linville they stated that within
hours of the murders at Camp Scott authorities were making a list of people they thought could have done this people
whose Mo was similar Gene Hart's name was on this list his Mo in his previous crime had some
similarities particularly the chord and tape method of binding multiple young victims
locals were likely right that Weaver did have a grudge against Hart he had been able to elude Authority since his second
escape from Weaver's jail 1973. there are local rumors also that Weaver had personal reasons to hate heart
something about a woman I've gone through all those rumors they all go back to some kind of relationship with
with a woman I'm unclear of the details of such was it a woman Bigfoot what we do know is that authorities
investigating the murders checked with Mental Hospitals and prisons in the area for a list of outpatients and Parolees
with histories of sex offenses on that list would have appeared Jean Leroy Hart's name as he had escaped the
convicted rapist and fugitive whose mother lived less than half a mile from Camp Scott at the time of the murders of
course investigators checked out other potential suspects in those early days they spoke with one guy who was living
in his car in the area but for whatever reason they dismissed him they spoke with
and I don't know if this is his real name but this is the name given okay with a man named Mike
a camper seen in the area who was caught stealing a hatchet and supplies from the
boy scout camp the week before the murders a Native American hitchhiker was arrested as well and was released after
questioning so they did look at some other individuals now three days after the murders two squirrel Hunters found a
flower sack with some fresh human excrement with wadded up newspaper in front of a cave three miles Southwest of
Camp Scott there were lots of footprints going in and out of the cave one of the hunters got the Eerie feeling
that they were being watched at this time so rather than enter the Cave the hunters contacted the highway patrol
inside the cave and near the ruins of a Cellar and Foundation nearby investigators found two tattered
photographs of women a roll of masking tape and a piece of plastic garbage bag stuck to it two pieces of newspaper one
pair of broken sunglasses and a beige vinyl case a pair of gloves a broken slingshot and some women's underwear the
newspaper was the April 17th edition of Tulsa World the same Edition in section as the one inside the flashlight at the
murder scene Susan Emery the Kiowa counselor identified the sunglasses and the case
as hers the cave was located a hundred feet from the ruined Cellar and Foundation of Gene
Hart's childhood home tracking dogs from Camp Scott had also alerted to an area near a second cave this is two miles
from Camp Scott and overlooking the home of Hart's Mother where a farmer had reported seeing someone who looked like
heart a week after the murders now did we did I hear this correctly that there was
there's some dookie and by the newspaper yeah in in a flower bag I believe did they test this dookie
I'm being serious four well wouldn't they be able to tell you what kind of dookie it is is it human
dookie is it is it dog dookie um well the reports are that it was human okay but now could they link this
to Heart I could they say that it was this piece of shit's piece of [ __ ] I don't know
look I went to school for computer so I don't know how they would link that to her and all that reading that you've
been doing wouldn't you be able to find out through all that reading if you could link [ __ ]
to [ __ ] well I'm questioning what test would be available to do so in 1977. the
whole [ __ ] test well maybe back in 1977 they didn't have tests but poop is Rich
with DNA so they should be able to test that to see if at least that matches heart and then we'd know that heart was
used in that cave well it was at this cave that investigators found a boot print that matched the boot print intent
number eight and a hair attached to a bandage that was found to have the same microscopic characteristics as hearts
and a third cave was found one mile from the camp this is on Jack schroff's property cops were led to this cave by a
young Jail inmate Darren Creekmore who told authorities he met with heart at this cave after the murders in this cave
written on the wall were the words the killer was here bye-bye fools 77-6-17 investigators arranged to have the
photos found near the first cave to be published in the local papers seeking information on the subjects and locals
quickly identified them as two women who had attended a wedding in 1969. investigators traced the photographs to
Louis Lindsay who had worked at a prison Lindsay moonlighted as a photographer and developed his pictures in the
prison's dark room he shot the 1969 wedding of prison workers daughters and used a man named Jean Leroy Hart as his
assistant in the prison dark room processing these photos Hart could easily have printed extra copies and
kept two for himself without anyone knowing the evidence against heart is starting
to pile up so who is Gene Hart was a Cherokee indian-born November 27 1943 in Claremore Oklahoma he was raised
by his mother and barely knew his father he was a c average student in school but
it excelled in sports and was considered a local football hero he married young and his wife soon had a child they later
divorced and she refused to let him see his offspring in 1966 Hart was working for a Tulsa
Steel company that is when he raped the two women the victims Joan and Barbara were both 19 married and pregnant
they were best friends since junior high school as they were leaving a Tulsa Club
one night a large Indian man according to an account of the crime and someone cried for the children pushed his way
inside their car brandishing a revolver he locked one of the girls in the trunk which he had lined with newspaper while
he raped the other in the back seat making strange animal like grunting or moaning sounds the girl in the trunk had
to listen to the whole thing Hart then drove some distance and duct taped the girl's noses mouths and eyes
and led them into the woods where he raped and sodomized each of them while the other listened petrified he left
them hogtied in the fetal position just like Michelle gussay with nooses around their necks that tightened if they tried
to free themselves so clearly intending for them to die despite choking nearly to death one of the women managed to
free herself and then her friend they stumbled to the highway and waved down a car one of the women saw the rapist
license plate number and both women identified this person as Jean Leroy Hart the evidence against him combined with
the identification of both victims LED Jean Hart to plead guilty to two charges of kidnapping and one charge of
first-degree rape he was sentenced to a very light three ten-year terms served concurrently and he was paroled after
serving just 28 months this was in March of 1969. one of the rape victims told police Hart tried on her glasses he wore
them while he was driving and he kept them Hart was soon arrested again in June 1969 after attempting to burgle the
home of a female police officer who awoke to find him entering her apartment cops pinned three other burglaries on
him as well Hart refused to take a plea deal and in 1970 he got a stiff sentence
of 305 years in prison so it's nice to find out that the burglaries not the rapes of two pregnant women were what
got him this basically this life sentence he escaped from the county jail in May
of 1972 jumping off the roof he was recaptured 11 days later and was assigned to the State Penitentiary
in April 1973 Hart was transferred back to the county jail in September 1973 he escaped again hacksawing his way out
with a saw supplied by a friend accompanied by two inmates Hart was still at large when the Girl Scout
murders occurred four years later investigators spent long nights in the woods as they continued surveillance on
places they thought Hart might be hiding finally they got a Break by late September 1977 reward money gathered
from various sources had grown to more than twenty thousand dollars and that was enough for one informant to offer
police help in finding heart this from the Tulsa World newspaper quote the informant told authorities that Hart's
brother-in-law was plotting to drive heart to the Cherokee reservation in North Carolina
so the OSBI put a tracking device on the brother-in-law's car the agent's plan was thwarted when heart supporter who
worked at the police headquarters snitched and told Hart's family about the bug but eventually the OSBI
informant learned Hart was staying with an old man in a tar paper Shack in the cookson Hills
on April 6 1978 OSBI agents closed in and took Heart by surprise without a single shot being fired
The Manhunt lasted 10 months consumed more than 10 000 man hours and cost the taxpayers two million dollars it's worth
noting that when heart was captured he was wearing shorts a tank top and women's glasses once heart was captured
and trial loomed Indian activists spoke up for heart his supporters sponsored benefits to raise money for his defense
their vehicle sported bumper stickers that read quote the heart of Gene country the American Indian movement sent
representatives to Oklahoma to monitor the situation in the Cherokee Nation Tribal Council voted to donate twelve
thousand five hundred dollars for heart's defense supporters wore t-shirts with slogans like stop the mays County
Railroad right right because this guy is completely innocent of everything yes hinting that heart was being railroaded
and set up for an unfair trial [Music] all right cheers mates cheers Captain all right let's dive into the evidence
that they have against heart well there was an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence linking heart to
the murders so let's review this first what links him to the deaths of Michelle Lori and
Denise Hart was an escaped rapist whose Mo seemed similar he targeted multiple young vulnerable victims at once
he came prepared to the scene with materials to bind and gag his victims and he used both rope and duct tape to
do so hog tying them with a with strangulation forms he also had the ability to rape multiple times in quick
succession the evidence found in the caves was linked to Heart the photos from the
prison wedding he developed a roll of duct tape that matched tape found at the scene of the murders a roll of masking
tape with a piece of plastic attached to it that had the end of the tape torn exactly matching the tape used to cover
the lens of the flashlight the plastic also matched Hearts co-escape e Larry dry testified
at trial that he and Hart had used the cave while living on the lamb and we know it was right next to Hart's
childhood home and then the newspaper found in the flashlight the writing on the wall taunting the police the
sunglasses belonging to Susan Emery the nine Diamond glasses yes the nine volt flashlight they had been modified to
emit only a thin beam of light we also have an associate of hearts that testified at trial that heart had been
known to modify flashlights in this manner in his burglaries for furthermore the newspaper at the cave was the same
addition and section as found inside the flashlight heart was described by an associate as
quote night blind and he notoriously stole glasses wherever he went Larry dry testified that Hart stole glasses from
homes he burglarized the killer that night stole and discarded several pairs of glasses from Camp Scott and kept at
least two pair that we know of two pieces of evidence found at the shack owned by Sam pigeon where heart
was apprehended were found to have been stolen from counselor and training Karen
Mitchell at Camp Scott this was a souvenir corn cob pipe and a small blue hand mirror was he building a snowman
well with all the stuff you were talking about earlier I think he was building a
[ __ ] man but these items the tricky thing about these items Captain they were found only upon a second search of
the shack right and some lead this leads some people to believe that these were planted pieces of evidence and that's
what his defense attorneys at trial would point out you know that these they actually straight up said these were
planted desperately by the sheriff to frame heart testimony at the preliminary hearing and
or trial by people who knew heart tended to implicate him in the murders Larry dry testified to Hart's penchant for
young girls and Jimmy Don Bunch testified that he was in prison with heart after the
murders and Hart told him that he was stoned and was drinking wine for three days when he woke up in the cave all
bloodied and he was not sure whether he had killed those girls or not all right so this jailhouse informant slash
jailhouse snitch is telling us that heart got boozed up which it happens for days
it happens it's been known to happen it's called binge-worthy so he gets all boozed up he wakes up in
this cave he's covered in blood doesn't know what he did but again this is kind of you know I don't like these
um to me this is not evidence this to me this is less than hearsay right and because it's a jailhouse snitch
Larry dry testified that he and Hart broke into Camp Scott more than once when it was empty to steal food so as we
all suspected heart was clearly familiar with the camp so let's talk about physical evidence
shall we we shall well first off we have speculated about some different weapons
and some things found but technically as far as this case goes and as far as what
is on record there is no weapon no murder weapon that was found and we also have no fingerprints were
found that they could link to Heart there was a single hair on Denise Milner's body that forensic experts who
analyzed it and testified stated it quote microscopically was similar to that of Hearts right similar but not
100 percent positive it was Hearts correct and we've learned things within the past 15 years that will suggest that
it's very difficult to say this is a 100 match when you're comparing you know hairs found at a scene and Harris
founded at another location and the other thing too regarding the sexual assaults on the victims
the evidence Left Behind was complicated here's how it was explained by ay magazine quote seminal fluid obtained
from the victim's bodies presented a conundrum sperm was present yeah but heart had a vasectomy earlier so they
claimed that he couldn't actually produce sperm correct the prosecution argued that Hart's vasectomy was only
partially successful Consulting Physicians said such cases could result in non-productive deformed
sperm Hart had type O blood as does 45 of the population he was a secretor like 80
percent of the population the semen sample from the victims was from a non-white male who was a
secreter with blood type O and it contained deformed sperm the number of people in the United States who met all
of that criteria represented .002 percent of the population the osbi's website States the deformed sperm
seemed to match a sample from Gene Hart it's also worth noting though that the Oklahoma State pathologist who performed
the autopsies Dr Neil Hoffman claimed not to have found sperm however the OSBI conducted its own
investigations and they claim sperm was present and it was the same from each of the victims so
simply meaning if the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation is correct in their stated findings there was only one
rapist who left deposits and their analysis of physical evidence including sperm samples and other bodily fluids
revealed that only .002 percent of the population met the unique characteristics contained in that
evidence this is obviously a very very small percentage of population but it does include Gene Hart right
.002 that's very very small percent what about the evidence it tended to show that it wasn't hard
we have the boot print which appeared to some people to be smaller than a size 11
and a half the size Hearts lawyer maintained that he wore yeah there's a bunch of conflicting stories about this
I've heard as small as nine and a half shoe size the second shoe print was smaller it was the sneaker print and
this was believed to be around size seven this obviously also does not fit Hearts size of 11 and a half
the flashlight contained one fingerprint and that was not hearts but but again the flashlight we believe was stolen
from the farm no we have the farm owner who says he could not identify the flashlight that doesn't mean that it
didn't come from his rather large property right however I think that one thing we can think about here is we know
that Hart was known to burglarize many properties right so it could have been stolen from anywhere anywhere and that
fingerprint doesn't mean that that has to match the killer right or it could match the killer that's the that's the
problem with this flashlight here so the other thing too though is why weren't Hart's fingerprints found on anything
they weren't found on anything in the caves they weren't found on the flashlight they weren't found on the
duct tape if investigators found Fingerprints of hearts at the murder scene or maybe even
in the caves their case would have been a lot stronger so some more information came to light
in the course of the two trials in this case one was a Civil Trial and one was Criminal
a month or two after the murders a camp counselor named Michelle Hoffman contacted Barbara day and told her a
disturbing story this occurred in April of 1977. the counselors had returned to their tent to find it ransacked with
their things scattered and some money missing a box of donuts had been emptied and a note left Inside the Box a
counselor read the note remarked how creepy it was and threw it away so now she told Barbara day that the note said
something along the lines of four girls will be killed or we are on a mission to
kill three girls so we don't know or don't have any evidence at all about this note because remember it was thrown
away they didn't report it to the higher ups at the time later stating that they believed that it
was just a prank so they dismissed it only after the murders did Michelle tell Barbara about it but because of its
seeming foreshadowing this note has taken on almost mythical proportions well they should have reported it
because I mean frankly it's bad enough that you leave that creepy note but once you steal Donuts you cross the line well
the thing too though that we got to keep in mind no one can really even prove that this note ever existed
and if it did no one can recall the exact wording on the note or even the number of girls that it threatened right
but my point is if you can prove that there was donuts and you can prove that there's some missing you can prove that
there's a monster out there I think given this situation I think it would be incredibly unlikely that the killer
would have left a warning note you know months in advance before killing these girls
My Only thing would be if you look at somebody like Hart that has done heinous crimes before maybe he has a
wrestling you know wrestles with not wanting to commit the crime and by maybe somehow when he went to uh still
something that he decided to leave a note to maybe stop himself if he's hiding in the area and has been for
quite some time and he's on the run from the police I feel like it would be I feel like it would be kind of a big
hay here here's somebody you should be looking for let's look around this area for what's going on so do you think the
note is this a [ __ ] story and maybe it's just to add to the urban legend of the whole thing I don't want to call any
of these people out because I I firmly believe that anybody at the camp that day that night is probably traumatized
in some form from this whole horrible horrific scene and tragedies I mean but take take example of your counselor and
you see some kind of glowing light a flashlight in the distance in the woods and you're Char and you're tracking it
and then it disappears at some point you're gonna go I wish I would have checked that out further
but also maybe if you're the one that checks that out further you become a victim so there'd be a lot of scenarios
that are probably playing through these Camp counselors Minds the parents Minds the other the campers minds of what
could have happened what should have happened and maybe what they could have done to stop it well as you can see
already in this case to really tear through it you have to have a lot of different boxes a lot of
different compartments to put all of this information and the whole story about this note
being left threatening the lives of some girls I'm going to kind of put that in the box the same boxes
Gene Hart was a shape-shifter box right Bigfoot the murder trial began on March 25th 1977 after a month-long preliminary
hearing the longest in State history the trial was held on the third floor courtroom of the Mayes County Courthouse
in Prior with judge William J Ressler presiding special prosecutor buddy follis Jr and
chief prosecutor Ron Shafer were appointed to assist district attorney Sid wise who later had to withdraw
because of his alleged intention to profit from a book about the case apparently he agreed to furnish a
journalist with confidential information in return for part of the prophets the prosecution requested and was denied
a change of venue they were arguing that it was too much there was too many people in the public that were in favor
of heart that didn't believe that he was guilty too many supporters Garvin Isaac's a former public defender from
Oklahoma City was hired to defend Hart this was after the Unexplained departure of Hart's first attorney Larry Oliver
both baffles me you know I know you're on a roll right now but it still baffles me that Hart played pled guilty
to the charges that he was faced with before these three murders he pled guilty to raping and the murders of
those women right and and it still seems like the community around him is like yeah he was
lying about that yeah you know I mean like it's almost like they dismissed that that ever
happened well and here's the thing too you have to wonder had he not pled guilty what evidence they could have
shown at that trial because there would have been a trial what evidence they could have shown at that trial may have
changed the whole Public's perception of this guy yeah but because because he pled guilty
he avoided a trial now we talked about his first attorney in this trial who he had this unexplained departure uh
from The Trial Larry Oliver years later Oliver went on to say that he felt heart could have done it and
that's why he didn't represent him he said that he felt that Hart had a quote dark side
jury selection question 110 jurors that eventually led to six men and six women that were impaneled not a single jury
member was Native American but heart had the unwavering support of many in the community
in a sad note one of the victim's parents remarked that when they entered the courtroom
they felt that they were seen as the enemy media from all over the country flocked to the courthouse to attend the
trial and the atmosphere was described as a circus with Spectators lining up hours in advance to get seats Native
American activists attending and Community supporters voicing their opinions throughout the trial was
Sensational punctuated from start to finish without burst both attorneys were free object yeah both attorneys were
frequently called to the bench for reprimands as tempers flared and verbal Jabs were traded
at one point Schaefer the prosecutor even challenged Isaacs to go outside preferred to arm wrestle during closing
arguments by the defense the audience would often applaud or holler the judge was forced to clear the courtroom more
than once during the trial we won't go into the whole trial here as we've already discussed evidence against heart
but the state called 32 Witnesses and what we didn't mention fully is Larry dry the convict and former
co-escapee of Hearts testified that he and Hart hid out in the caves where evidence linked to the murders was found
right he also said he received three threatening letters from an unknown person who he assumed to be heart saying
that if dry told anyone where heart might be hiding out his wife and daughter were in danger
counselor Celia Stahl testified that two Girl Scouts were scared when quote two mysterious men were near their tent
sometime around the time of the murders and Richard day testified that he saw a tall stranger near the creek the day
before the murders Hart maintained his innocence throughout the trial he stated in one press conference he
gave before the trial that at the time of the murders he was in Tulsa at his uncle's house
the uncle conveniently died during The Manhunt and couldn't testify at the trial nevertheless even without an alibi
the defense went on the attack and effectively undermined much of the prosecution's case
its Witnesses testified that the hair and sperm evidence was not conclusive it claimed evidence was planted the
mirror and the pipe the photographs found near the cave which had supposedly been seen in Sheriff Weaver's possession
before they were found it claimed a homosexual female counselor could have killed the girls it even
presented an alternative theory that another man had committed these murders and although a witness who testified
implicating this other man was eventually charged with perjury the damage seemed to have been done the
defense rested without heart taking the stand ten days after opening arguments the jury began their deliberations
they retired for the night without a verdict and was ready within 30 minutes of convening the next morning wow March
29 1979 they were ready with their decision a unanimous verdict of not guilty was
their decision the courtroom erupted with cheers jury remarks about their findings included quote A Reasonable
Doubt and evidence wasn't there and the investigation was a screwed up mess although some jurors
indicated that they didn't necessarily believe heart was totally innocent one juror told the Tulsa World that all 12
had agreed after only five minutes of deliberation that heart should be found not guilty
it wasn't any one thing they stated there were too many Loose Ends too many things didn't add up
in an Associated Press interview a year later they quoted in the Tulsa World juror
Leela Ramsey said none of us knew whether he did it or did not do it we were shocked that they didn't have more
evidence than what they had or maybe as buddy phallus suggested post-trial it was the fact that Hart was
headed back to prison anyway to serve a 300 year sentence which wasn't admissible but which the defense let
slip in front of the jury wow what a party Foul so the jury knew it could acquit and heart if in fact he had done
it he still wasn't going free so it arguably didn't matter what the jury said prosecutors cried shocked and left in
disbelief at the verdict they felt they had their man right and they thought that they proved his guilt 20 years
later when the O.J verdict came down two of the murder victims mothers said of Hearts trial and that of O.J Simpson's
trial you would be absolutely shocked at how many similarities there were in those two cases Sherry farmer told an
interviewer the alleged planting of evidence the race card all of that was played Betty Milner said watching the
O.J Simpson trial was like it was happening to us all over again Simpson's attorney as we all know the late Johnny
Cochran he talked about a bloody glove when he said if it doesn't fit you must acquit Garvin Isaacs foreshadowed this
20 years earlier referencing the bloody boot print that was allegedly not heart's size saying quote you can't
shrink your foot right according to reports the the heart jury was not allowed to hear evidence regarding
Hart's previous rapes prosecutors and law enforcement who carefully pulled together the case
against heart weren't able to recover from what they called a gross miscarriage of Justice yeah but the the
difference in this case is it look O.J when he was found not guilty he walked free
in this case when heart was found not guilty he was going to spend over 300 years in prison
right so there's there's a big difference there and you can't tell me that the defense didn't let that slip on
purpose you know the the jury was not supposed to know that because remember they prosecution was not allowed to
present his previous crimes of these rapes that he had committed well and think of it this way though the jury
took 30 minutes right 30 minutes the the second day right but my point is by that
second day somebody could have said hey look go home and sleep on it tonight but
it doesn't matter if he's found innocent or guilty he's going away uh to prison for over 300 years
if you think in those terms then then what does it matter if you rule him guilty or not right and I I think that's
the big argument that's presented here because you have this this simple fact okay
I'm asked as a juror to determine Beyond Reasonable Doubt you know that this guy killed these
three girls well they didn't really prove their case Beyond A Reasonable Doubt I I think it
was a bit stacked against them that they didn't have the technology at the time possibly right we'll get into some other
alternative theories here later but this simple situation of well I have this little part of me that says he he
might not have done this okay well if we say that he's innocent all right all right if we say he's guilty okay he's
he's going to serve life sentences right he's already facing a life sentence if we say he's guilty and he actually
didn't do it then the real killer or killers are getting away with murder they will never be apprehended likely
for this case but if we say he's innocent we got nothing to lose other than we can't try him again right he's already
going away in the 18 months following the verdict 22 OSBI agents quit they quit their job
Ted Lemke OSBI and inspector he unprofessionally let's say commented publicly that there would be no further
investigation and they might as well close the case because the jury quote turned loose the man who committed the
murders interestingly after the trial the parents will return the items of clothing
from their dead children what they were wearing that fateful night this a clear indication that the
investigation was effectively over right so the devastated parents looked for other ways to obtain Justice for their
daughters in 1985 the farmers and milners filed civil lawsuits against the magic Council claiming its negligence
was partly responsible for the deaths of their daughters and seeking a 5 million
dollar judgment at the Civil Trial testimony from former campers and counselors included Tales of
thefts break-ins and strange happenings in the years and even weeks and days preceding the murders a story came out
that in 1976 three moms visiting the camp were asleep when a man looked into their tent the story about the warning
note in the donut box was addressed testimony was heard that on the night of the murder screams were heard in the
night tents were opened by strange men or a strange man and there were multiple sightings of a strange man or strange
man in the woods and girls were grabbed but in the end the jury ruled in favor of the council so once again the parents
were left with no closure foreign for all of our old episodes download the Stitcher app and it's free and check out
our bonus show on Stitcher premium it's five dollars a month and you get every show that's on Central premium for just
that five dollars a month so it's not like these other shows that we'll just do like a patreon or you pay them five
bucks a month this is you pay five bucks a month to Stitcher and you get all the
shows that are on Stitcher premium a huge catalog plus our great show off the Record thanks everybody for joining us
in the garage here today we'll be back for part three tomorrow and until then be good be kind and don't let it
thank you [Music]

Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders /// Part 2 /// 266

Part 2 of 3

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Camp Scott was a 410 acre camp operating since 1928. Located near a small town in Oklahoma the camp had facilities for up to 140 children and 30 staff. The camp was most often attended by Girl Scouts. In fact it was marketed to the Girl Scouts as “This is your camp.” After the night of June 13th, 1977 the camp closed forever. What took place that night was horrifying. Parents sent their young, happy daughters to an idyllic two-week camp and they never returned. What was done to those girls can only be described as pure evil. This week we take an in-depth look at the Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders. Beer of the Week - Anytime Minutes by The Willows Family Ales Garage Grade - 3 and 3 quarter bottle caps out of 5

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode covers the 1977 Camp Scott murders, Gene Hart's trial, and the victims' families' quest for justice.

Key points

The Tragic Camp Scott Murders. Three young girls were murdered at Camp Scott, leaving a community in shock.
Gene Hart's Dark Past. Gene Hart had a history of violent crimes, including rape and kidnapping.
The Hunt for Gene Hart. Authorities launched the largest manhunt in state history for the suspect, Gene Hart.
Mystique Surrounding Hart. Hart's elusiveness and local legend status complicated the investigation.
Evidence Against Hart Piles Up. Investigators found incriminating evidence linking Hart to the murders.
The Manhunt for Hart. A 10-month pursuit that cost taxpayers two million dollars and ended with Hart's capture.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Where do you put that in your brain?

Sherry Farmer's disbelief upon hearing about her daughter's death.

4:14WatchNov 23, 2022

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.