Idaho College Murders ////// 634 | Forensic Files

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changer [Music] [Music] it's been more than 3 weeks since the murders of four University of Idaho
students and police are starting to Reed toxicology reports on the victim's hair
fibers blood and DNA according to law enforcement all considered critical evidence from the crime scene the case
remains unsolved police still have not found a murder weapon or named a suspect but investigators saying today they are
trying to provide information while protecting the Integrity of the investigation saying in a statement we
firmly believe speculation and unvetted information is a disservice to the victims their families and our community
the stabbing deaths of these four students has created turmoil at the University and in the quiet community of
Moscow that hasn't recorded a single murder since [Music] 2015 [Music] less than one month ago in Idaho on
Sunday November 13th for University of Idaho students were killed in an off campus house that same morning at 11:58
a.m. someone called 911 and reported an unconscious person Moscow Police Department responded and located four
victims two on the second floor of the home and two on the third floor the 911 call came from inside the home where the
victims were killed using a survivor's cell phone an autopsy was conducted and confirmed the identity
of the four victims there's one male victim and three female victims forgive me please if I mispronounce any of the
victim's names as I am going off of the Moscow police press conference pronunciations the victims were
identified as Ethan chapen a 20-year-old freshman from Conway Washington we also
have Madison Mogan a 21-year-old senior from cordelane Idaho we have Kaylee Gonzalez age 21 also a senior from wrath
drum Idaho and we have Zanna Carnot a junior she was 20 years of age and from Post Falls Idaho and like you said
there's four victims but there's six individuals that live in the house yes it's a little tricky on the details
about the home itself and as it's reported there were six people in total at the home during the times of the
attack it's been reported that six people possibly live in the home now of the four victims not all of them were
people that actually lived in the home according to the limited information released regarding the autopsies all
four victims were stabbed to death all four victims are believed to have been asleep when the attacks started some of
the victims had defensive wounds there were no signs of sexual assault in regards to the home where the victims
were found this is a rental house just off campus the three women victims were renters and roommates at the home Ethan
chapen the lone male victim was Zanna carnot's boyfriend and he was staying the night when the four were killed and
as you pointed out Captain we have two surviving roommates the two other roommates were present that night when
the victims were killed they lived at the rental house with Madison kayy and Zanna and I believe
their initial claims were that they were asleep during the attacks that morning when one of the victims was discovered
to be unconscious by one or both of the surviving roommates they called a third party so someone or someone's from
outside of the home then comes to the home and shortly afterward a call to 911 is placed it has been reported that the
call initially came from someone not a roommate of the victims but someone using a roommate's cell phone police
have released very little details about this 911 call one detail is that the 911
operator spoke to several persons that morning and again the call came from one of the roommates cell phones yeah
initially there was some speculation that the 911 call came from the actual killer but I don't actually believe that
that that is the case yes that was one of the questions that was asked of the Moscow police department at the press
conference and that was quickly shot down so it was asked did the call come from the Killer and they said no plain
and simple no the call did not come from the killer from what it looks like to me
Captain is that somebody responds to this call a civilian responds to this call for help come comes over to help
and may have brought a person or two with them or in the course of trying to help an additional person or two arrives
it sounds like there were multiple people that were in the home when police arrive on the scene then unfortunately
they discover two victims having been killed on the second floor of the home and then two additional victims that
were killed on the third floor of the home it's been reported that all four victims were me MERS of fraternities and
sororities Ethan chapen was a triplet his brother Hunter and his sister Mae are also University of Idaho students
Ethan was a member of the sigma Kai fraternity according to the university Zanna carod was a junior majoring in
marketing and a member of the pi beta fi sorority Madison Mogan was a senior also
majoring in marketing who belong to Pi beta fi and Kaylee Gonzalez was a senior majoring in General Studies and a member
of the alpha fi sorority this according to the university the killings of shaken
Moscow an Idaho Panhandle town of 25,000 residents this city has not had a homicide in about five years leading up
to the events of November 13th of this year for those not familiar with the area the college town is located about
80 miles south of Spokane Washington the university is just a few minutes drive from the Washington Idaho state border I
was looking at this the other day captain and it looks like maybe a five minute drive from the campus area to the
Border you go west past the Applebees and then very quickly you are in the great state of Washington yeah I know
they suspended classes for a little bit and then then continued classes but I think it was during the Thanksgiving
week you know when they're only in school for a couple days where a lot of students weren't going to class and the
university said well you don't have to attend class but you can attend online and I just thought it's a three-day week
this is a this is a mass murder just shut down school for a few days and just let these kids go home and feel safe
cuzz at that time and and maybe still to this date we don't have a very good idea
of who this killer is that's exactly right so the Moscow police chief his name is James fry he has reminded us
almost daily that they have not identified a suspect or found the murder weapon what you're talking about leads
to what I find to be something that seems to be highly debated not just on online but more importantly on the
campus itself where the general public keeps asking the police for clarification is there a threat to the
community here right so on November 15th this is two days after the murders the Moscow police say they preliminarily
believe this was an isolated targeted attack and there is no imminent threat to the community at large that's their
words verbatim and that evidence quote and sorry and that quote evidence indicates that this was a targeted
attack other statements that are very similar say the killings came in an isolated targeted attack and there is no
imminent threat to the community at large police also said evidence from the scene indicates there is no broader risk
but provided no information about the evidence nor why they believe the victims were targeted the following day
police backtracked some of that saying they could not actually say whether there was a threat to the public or not
yeah and Layman speak they're basically saying we think we have evidence that points that these are these crimes took
place because of the victims somebody that they were connected to was most likely the killer this is what happens
in any of these cases especially when we have multiple victims so Barry and honey
Sherman media was asking right away way from Jump Street the same question do we
have a threat here to the community should we should we all be concerned should be we be scared for our lives
when the two girls were killed in Deli Indiana that was the first question that police were answering time and time
again and then of course this is the question that keeps popping up over and over again especially this first week
and here's here's where my feelings are on this and I'm I'm not calling anybody out but my feelings on this are yes I
don't care if this was a targeted attack or not I don't care if Deli was targeted
or not or honey and Barry Sherman any of these cases when you have somebody who has been murdered and the Killer is
still out there and you know very little about the crime itself or you have very
few leads on how to track this individual down who's responsible for the homicide there is a threat to the
community whether it's targeted or not you know I had this conversation the other day we were talking about the
Nancy eagleson homicide and as you know captain and and longtime listeners of this show knows that's a 62y old case
and the longer that a case drags on without result without a solution the more suspicious people get so in Nancy's
case depending on who you talk to you could have a dozen decent suspects in their mind and and the question that
kept coming up time and time again iswell if you had to narrow it down Nick who would be your number one or your top
three and my answer to that was simply look we have all these people that that you question and say they could be
responsible for ny's murder however there are two people on that list that killed other individuals and for me that
prior prioritizes them much more than these other suspects in my mind simply because of the fact that these two
individuals are capable we know they're capable of murder because they've done it before and so that in itself is a
threat to the public thank God most of us are not capable of murdering another individual well I think most of us are
capable of murdering somebody we just choose not to be Giant douche waffles what we have here on the campus in the
surrounding communities of the University of Idaho whether you like it or not or whether it was targeted or not
you have someone or some ones that were capable of going into a home and attacking four individuals in their
sleep and murdering them that person or persons will always be capable of doing that again there is a threat whether the
police want to admit it whether the university wants to admit it or not regardless if this is targeted there is
in fact a threat to that community and in fact there's a threat to the surrounding communities as long as this
person stays at large yeah you sing it sister police are Desperately Seeking information in this case they are also
seeking surveillance footage it has been several weeks so they've had some time to collect that information and
potential footage and they have uh been able to do so and had some success with that but they really need any type of
public assist and any help that can be provided to them in this case as said we are reminded almost daily from the
Moscow police chief that they have not identified a suspect or found a murder weapon so they need your help they need
our help information can be phoned in at 20888 37180 also tips can be emailed to the
following address that is tipline at c. moscow.id do us and you don't have to write any of that information down that
will be in today's show notes so if you need to refer to that in the future we'll have that available for you well
if you're a law enforcement and you're showing up to the scene the first thing you have to do is that we have two
surviving people that lived in the house that were at the house at the time you have to vet them
I think first cuz I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities to look at
them as possible suspects but then they brought in other individuals to that crime scene so that makes it even more
difficult the more people that are at these houses it becomes more difficult for law enforcement and also anybody
that's been to college knows you have multiple House parties so that means there's thousands and thousands of
handprints and DN a and and so much stuff that makes this crime scene I think a lot harder for for law
enforcement yeah this is a difficult case for for many reasons and we've talked about this before that of course
your the victim Social Circle is going to be where you will most likely find your perpetrator and now we have to
times that by four we have four victims here so we have police on record saying that at least at one point in their
investigation they believ that this was a targeted attack meaning one or all of these victims were targeted but this is
a very bizarre crime to try to investigate one because the totality of the number of potential suspects the
number of potential Witnesses because you have four victims everything's Times by four here and then the bizarre nature
of the crime scene itself and how it possibly went down because here you have four people that were killed inside this
home but investigators what little information is coming out one thing that they have told us is they believe and
we'll go through a a timeline here in a bit but they believe that the other two victims the surviving victims two people
that lived there at the home were present at the time of the murders and they were not attacked they
had no injuries what happened and how does this go down and how is unfortunately the perpetrator or
perpetrator successful in getting into this home carrying out these attacks and yet we have two unharmed
individuals that we don't know what kind of information if any they are able to provide to law enforcement yeah it's
very confusing because we don't think there are eyewitnesses we don't think these roommates were ear Witnesses but
then they call 91 one and say that somebody's unconscious but they should have seen the blood everywhere I mean
this is a massive bloody murder scene the three topics that I want to make sure that we get to and we're not going
to be able to get into everything with this case here today because a lot of it is still speculation and rumor at this
point we've had so many people hit us up and say when will you guys be talking about the University of Idaho murders
and we know that this is something that's that's in the media right now it's on the front lines of the media and
being asked that we felt a duty to to deliver some information here today and partly I believe captain that it is our
duty to deliver some information here today because I'm already starting to see some strange things coming out in
this case that are very likely not true or not a part of this case I want to Ste
clear of those items today and stick to what we do know for certain we can get into some speculation along the way but
I want to kind of stick to the path that has been created The Narrative that has
been created through the survivors and through local law enforcement working this case because as we've seen in other
cases that there's a lot of strange things that pop up there's a lot of things that are created out of makeb
believe and cases and then when you get closer to the case being solved or once the case is solved you realize oh those
those things that seem like they were almost out of a horror flick or off of the movie screen that seemed like they
probably weren't true well now we know that they aren't true so again we won't know what's going on in in a large
portion of this case until they find the person or person's responsible obviously
but I think it's important to deliver and remind everybody of what information is out there because that's how you're
going to have to build your case that's what detectives are going to use to build their case and this is not
something where anybody is sitting there sitting on their hands hoping that somebody's going to phone in the correct
information no we have the police department we have a lot of state police involved already in this case we have
the FBI Behavioral Science unit that has been sent to the area we have local state FBI agents as well for Idaho that
have been on scene since very early on in this case so we got a lot of very capable agencies and persons working
this case and things might start moving a little quickly here yes a lot to dive into on this strange case but first
let's take a quick beer [Music] break [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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purchase all right cheers thanks for joining us for this special episode cheers to everybody cheers to
you Captain cheers to all of our faithful listeners out there and a cheers and our thoughts and prayers go
out to all the staff and classmates and family members of these four victims we understand that these are trying times
and we hope that this investigation gets some legs and takes off soon and starts
heading in a very good direction I feel like law enforcement is currently doing everything that they can of course
they're not sharing a whole lot of information so there has been some frustration on the part of the public
and students at the University there which I completely understand but for the time being we need to keep in mind
that they are trying their very hardest they're putting a lot of resources on this investigation hopefully they'll
have a suspect in their sites here pretty soon I do want to point out here Captain because we typically don't cover
a case that is just so recent you know we we covered Deli back in 2017 but we covered it in in May and it
took place in February and we were one of the first to cover it but usually with these cases if you get inside of 90
days of when the case takes place of the day in question there's not a whole lot
of information unless you have an arrest that takes place within 244872 hours of the case itself this is
a very active investigation as we said with not a lot of information coming out but I do want to point out the
information that we are delivering here today has been compiled through several sources
and those include but are not limited to the university itself the Moscow police
the following news outlets which are ABC CNN Fox and the national desk now there
are three things that we want to make sure that we hit on here today and your mom again we should be learning more
information in this case and hopefully sooner rather than later but we're going to go with what we have here today those
three additional items that I would like to make sure that we cover we have a timeline that has been put together that
has really started to flesh itself out it's not in great detail that's one of the things that investigators are hoping
the public will come forward with more additional information to help them continue to flesh out this timeline of
the four victims and their the people in their Social Circles we have some I'm calling them additional autopsy
information but it's more of comments that were made on the record from the County
coroner and we also have some additional house information as we know we talk about this every single week here in the
garage the the keys to these investigations are learning as much as you can about the crime scene learning
as much as you can about the victims and their surroundings and also the investigation itself do you have
anything that you think we should prioritize and Tackle first here Captain the floor is your
kind sir let's go with some of the additional house information that we have and then we'll circle into the
timeline the house information the crime scene itself is what makes this case so
mindboggling to me and many others out there it's very difficult to believe that someone or some once could sneak
into this home attack and kill four individuals you have two other individuals that that
live in the home that are said to have been present and likely sleeping at the same time of these attacks the
statements are that the attacks when they started the victims were asleep some of the victims it's reported had
defensive wounds so they likely based off of those statements the best I can gather is that they may have woke up mid
attack but how does this perpetrator or perpetrators seemingly get in there this
kind of level of stealth and leave there with the same level and you have two surviving members of the home you have
it's reported that there was a dog that one of our victims Kaylee that she owned
a dog and the dog was present when the officers arrived it's reported that the dog was not so they find two of the
victims on the second floor of the home and two of the victims dead on the third
floor of the home and the vague statement regarding the dog is that the dog was not present where the victims
were found but was in the home when the officers arrived on the scene and we have the statement from police where
they are saying the other members of this home they do not have reason to believe that they are involved in any
way in The Killing so that's the kind of mindboggling scenario that we have here
regarding the dog and the other two individuals and then one statement that has come out more recently and this is
coming from the the property management team that manages this rental house is that there's actually a sixth person
listed on the lease that person I'm unclear as if this person was still living there at the
time we know that this is is student housing we could have a situation where the sixth person decided to not attend
school for the full year or or left campus early uh for the upcoming holiday and was not around at the time of the
the homicides it's a little unclear about this sixth person and their involvement in the actual home leading
up to uh the this tragic event yeah this is absolutely tragic and and so confusing so many questions
but I think the way they probably got in without being seen and and heard is this
happened at the we hours of the morning so in a sleepy college town there's just
not a lot of people out well and our four victims here did not return to the home until after 1:00 a.m. that night we
know that to be fact and my neighborhood I see somebody walking at 1 a.m. or afterward and that's very bizarre that's
something that that sends up a red flag here and in my neighborhood you don't anticipate seeing anybody out that late
or or roaming the streets if it were so let's get into now that we've covered some of the additional home information
that's been put forward by the media I think we need to get into this timeline because the timeline's got some
interesting details about it and this timeline has been provided to us from foxnews.com so if anybody wants to look
this up uh you can go there and find it for yourself I'm not going to go through
the entire te of the article but I'll just jump right into the timeline Captain comment as you see fit here the
timeline that they provide starts with Saturday November 12th and this technically will be the day before the
homicides but they the victims were killed in the small hours of the 13th and also discovered that same day so
keep that in mind so Saturday November 12 we have Kaylee Gonzalez post a a final Instagram post at 8:57 p.m. and
it's a picture that is a Almost Famous at this point because I've seen it this picture generated on and being thrown
around on different websites and different news outlets I mean it couldn't paint a picture of happier
people all four of our victims are in this picture they are look to be incredibly happy in this moment from my
understanding I believe that this picture may have been taken a day or so before she posted but the picture itself
was not posted until 857 on kayle's Instagram it's our four victims along with what appears to be two other
persons who have been cropped out of the picture so we do not know who those individuals are there's versions of this
picture without them C out so that night two of the persons here Kaye and Madison they go to a bar and they hang
out there this bar is the corner club which is in town and from everything we can find it states that they were there
from about 10:00 till a little after 1 a.m. this was interesting to me Captain because when I started hearing that the
four victims it's that they did not arrive home until very close to 2 a.m. that morning it was interesting to
me because given the size of the town and I know that it's a college but I trolled around on the internet and and
on map apps very quickly realized it was going to be difficult there was not a whole lot of businesses or bars that
would stay open that late even on a Saturday so it really limited the location that they could be going to
because originally this was simply reported as they were at a sports bar or a local bar and had left there and
arrived home around the 2:00 hour so now we get some further detail it was in fact the corner club which is in town
and while this is going on while we have Madison and Kaylee there at the bar we have Ethan and his
girlfriend Zanna who went to a party together at the sigma Kai house which is located on campus afterward we have
Madison and Kaylee who are captured on video on Twitch footage at 1:41 a.m. and this is they are standing outside of a
food truck in this video clip they are waiting in line at the grub wandering kitchens food truck which I guess the
locals called the grub truck they are chatting with friends they're placing an order this is when they are last
captured on uh video so we know that they didn't go straight from the bar to their home they stopped off at this at
this food truck first police initially said that that all of the parties had returned home by 1145 a.m. but later
revised their statement to say that Madison and Kaylee actually arrived home at 1:56 a.m. this is based off of
additional evidence that they have recovered and they received a ride back from a private party this initially was
reported as an Uber ride but now it's being referred to as having received a ride back from a private party whom
police have not named publicly but they say that they have ruled out as a suspect now when we're going through
this article and if we get to the other article as well captain that I want to dive into I want to be clear about
something because the the language is changing throughout some of these articles okay in some articles what they
are saying is that certain individuals have been cleared or certain individuals have been ruled out as a suspect I will
state as the article States it but what I think that we need to make very clear here and what is very important to me is
that the language that the investigators are choosing to use in regard to speaking with the public and the media
is different than the language in some of these articles a couple things that are in favor of law enforcement here is
we have two parties and they're at two locations two girls are at a bar the boyfriend and girlfriend are at a a frat
party so because it's a small campus law enforcement is going to have a good idea
of the patrons of that bar and the patrons of that party those people obviously need to be looked at because
they're the some of the last people that come in contact with these individuals but then we have the two girls that stop
at the food truck and then I know that they've investigated several people that have been a part of that video clip that
you've talked about but because this is not a huge campus and we don't have a ton of students and we don't have that
many businesses open this I think is in favor of law enforcement figuring out and being able to interview the patrons
of both the party and the bar and what I wanted to make sure that we were clear on here again referring to that language
that is being used because in these situations words have very powerful and true meaning and so I always and mindful
of the words the investigators are choosing to use when they speak with the public and choosing to use when they
speak with the media and the words that the investigators are using again different from these articles I'm yet to
see and here with my own ears a quote of investigators saying that soand so has been ruled out as a suspect or so and so
has been cleared in this case in fact what they have actually been saying time and time again are the two
are these two statements we don't believe that this person was involved to me that's very different
than saying somebody's been cleared or ruled out as a suspect the other thing that they are saying is that there is
nothing connecting this incident or this person to this case again that's different than saying somebody has been
ruled red out to me ruled out and cleared means we've determined this person in no possible way any shape or
form could have been involved in this saying we don't believe or have no reason to believe that they were
involved means we could still find something later that changes what we believe happened here
yeah I definitely agree with you hot pants the article goes on to state that the two surviving roommates were females
who survived the attack they have also been cleared again this is the language of the article have been cleared as
suspects that they returned home that night they were out as well they returned home before the four friends
who were later killed so these two female roommates per this report returned home around 1 a.m. so based off
of all of this information what we what it looks like we have a home where six people are going to go to sleep that
night all six of these indiv indviduals are out on the town and it appears that that two of our victims are at this bar
then they hit the food truck they get a private party to drive them home that person has not been publicly named we
have our other two victims that were at a fraternity party on campus they return
home and we have the two unnamed or previously unnamed roommates who return home as well that night so they're all
out but the Survivor roommates return around 1:00 a.m. then we have the two from the
fraternity or sorority party that return around 1:45 a.m. and then the last two people of the home return at 1:56 a.m.
so that's interesting that they are able to narrow it down to very precise times
here and that is certainly very helpful for the investigation but one of the things that are confusing is you think
about the timeline and you go okay well what if one of these individuals got into a argument with somebody and then
the person followed them home well that would make some sense as far as some kind of motive it makes sense on some
level but what doesn't make any sense is that these two groups of individuals weren't together so it wasn't like all
four of them went somewhere and got in an argument and then that followed them back home so that's where it gets even
more confused exactly that's that really makes this complicated and just the nature of the crime scene and the
persons there at the home makes this very complicated as well police have been upfront and saying recently that it
is believed that the murders took place between the hours of 3 and 4 a.m. and we
know that the 911 call that came in that was received that call came in at 11:58
a.m. I'd love to hear that 911 call so there's our timeline right there police have stated as the captain stated
earlier that the four victims were stabbed to death with a edged weapon such as a knife that was the language
they were using early on lately what has been stated is that it was a a fixed blade weapon what's interesting
here too is that through the course of their investigation we're learning from persons that they've interviewed and
businesses that they've gone to that they have a very good idea of what kind of knife it was this was not it it was
not a kitchen knife this was not a pocket knife this is what one business owner referred to as a Rambo style knife
that they were specifically asking about a knife of that style I typically call that a survivor knife that's the way
they were always advertised when we were kids there captain but if anybody's seen
the movie Rambo they know exactly what kind of knife that they are are looking for this would be a large blade it would
have a very sharp blade on one side with a with a large handle and I believe that's called the hilt right I'm not
sure if that's exactly what that's called but but that there would be evidence of that on our victims and
that's why they're probably honing in on a very specific type of knife another thing I just want to point out that
makes this difficult for law enforcement is I'm guessing the DNA transfer and the
blood transfer if you attack one victim and you get some blood on you and you attack the next victim then you're going
to be transferring their blood to the next victim and then both those victims blood to the next victim and so on and
so on and to add additional information about the potential murder weapon here we have the Idaho stat man that reported
that police were focusing on a Kar that's k-b R brand knife in their investigation
and had questioned a local hardware store manager about whether the shop had recently sold such a weapon and then the
article goes on to state that in the coming days that police were ruling out or clearing individuals that we have
already mentioned the roommates the person whomever drove them home it sounds like they've looked at several
different people again the language that I've seen them use outside of this article and other ones that we will cite
here today is that they do not believe a person certain person was involved or there's no evidence connecting them to
the homicides which again I personally believe is different yeah I think it's pretty strong to say that you ruled
somebody completely out I think by doing that you run the risk of putting your foot in your mouth I keep both feet in
my mouth at all times right well let's get into some of this additional information about the autopsies like we
said here Captain they've released very little information on the autopsies but the autopsies the from from what little
information they have released it sounds to me like this was a rather quick straightforward attack the only thing
that's bizar there is that it appears that the victims remained asleep while the other victims were being attacked
now we do have statements that are coming from the county corner to the media that I find to be interesting and
and two they back up a lot of the suspicions early on and they back up some of the other statements that we
have found in the media so I summarized it as such four University of Idaho students were found
dead in a rental house Sunday they were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep a County coroner told
a cable news channel the County coroner told news nation that each victim suffered multiple stab wounds from a
quote pretty large knife and goes on to say State quote it has to be somebody pretty angry in order to stab four
people to death end quote the victims the coroner said were stabbed in the chest and upper body area the coroner
said that the victims were likely asleep some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times according to
police there was no evidence of sexual assault police said and law enforcement say that the murders took place between
3:00 a.m. and 4: a.m. the other thing here in regard to the crime scene itself is there's no signs of forced entry into
the home there's also no sign of anything having been taken from the house yeah and I can't speak to this
particular house but I know the houses on Ohio State campus if a door is a little broken or a lock is a little
broken you're lucky to have your landlord come and fix it is it possible that the doors were locked but somebody
was able to either pick those locks or you know use the old credit card trick to get in and and they and the people in
the house just just didn't deadbolt the door some other persons of possible interest that people I'm sure would like
for us to speak about is there were multiple phone calls made from two of our victims two of our
female victims to a male individual it's now being reported that those multiple phone calls were to an ex-boyfriend of
one of the victims it appears Captain two things are going on with that one I'm very curious who this individual was
when they weren't naming him right and now they're listed him as an ex-boyfriend of one of the victims but
it then became clear that law enforcement was using this information for two things one again the statement
of we don't have reason to believe that this person was involved but it also sounds like these uh text or phone calls
these communications were what helped them to narrow down the time of death as well
and so it seems like even they get home around 2: a.m. of course you know you don't go home and and most of us don't
go home from a night out and then go straight to bed but it was very late at night when they return home but it
appears that they were still active for some period of time after returning to the home that night yeah when I go to a
bar and then I hit up the old grub truck I'm passing out right when I get home let's just be clear about this I want to
I want to make sure I'm clear on what you're stating this ex-boyfriend was not just in
communication with one of the roommates or one of the victims but in communication with two of the victims
that is what the statements are from the articles that I have reviewed yes to me
that is very suspicious and to me I'd want to know what those conversations were about agreed and anybody that's
communicating or interacting with any of our victims leading up to the murders is going to be somebody that
will be interesting to police and to investigators now in this regard I personally did not find it to
be bizarre I did I get it but the Social Circles that I run in almost everyone significant others are very close
friends with with everyone in the group and the way that I understand this and again I'm just you know 40-year-old dude
living halfway Across America away from from these victims trying to understand some victims in their their lives going
on that are half my age so I clearly don't know anything well clearly not and you're living in a van down by the river
but just pointing out that from my understanding the information that's out there is that the two that were in
communication with this ex-boy friend were Madison and Kaylee and from my understand standing
and listening to the victims families talk about their daughters and their daughters relationships with each other
that these two were best friends from middle school and Beyond like the the closeness of their
relationship is so hard to describe to everybody out there because it sounds to me like many of us may have not
experienced a friendship that is in fact this close for this long of a period of
time so from middle school on high school and then they they go to the same college and become roommates together
and they're two of the older persons living in this house in this rental house on campus I don't find it strange
that having that close of a bond and relationship that one person that was not a part of that relationship of the
boyfriend girlfriend relationship ship was in communication with this male on that night as said those same two
victims were together that entire night together right which could be something as simple as oh I can't get a hold of
Kaylee so I text her best friend who was always with her right or I called her best friend who was always with her or
so and so called him I get it and I think you're spot on Captain you're absolutely right police would be foolish
to not look at him and it obviously they have done so to say that they've ruled him out or cleared him would be
irresponsible to say that they can't really connect them to the homicides is is likely a true statement of their
investigation and the evidence that they have so far the other thing that's interesting and it's also in regard to
Kaylee as well is that I guess in October she had made reference to a potential stalker there's very little
details about that and and what she had said to other people however the police come out and
say that we believe that we have tracked down two individuals that may have been
called a stalker so these two individuals are are friends they are person that the police obviously know
their names they've been interviewed and one guy is saying yeah I saw I was at me
and my buddy went to a public place those who stocked together flocked together and we went there with the
intention or the hopes of meeting women the ladies and yes I I followed her around I don't know if this
was a bar they don't go into what kind of business or what kind of Gathering Place this was right but he says yes I
followed her around I may have even gone out to the parking lot when she went out
to the parking lot he says he did not interact with her at all this could be very simple as the situation that we see
every night on a campus boy goes out hoping to meet girl boy is too chicken [ __ ] to approach her and talk with her
but does the weird thing where he kind of follows her around briefly or or tries to exchange glances across the
room in hopes that she will come over and speak with him but never does so the police say that they've moved on from
this individual and and his friend and have no reason to believe that they had any type of involvement at all but
weirdly he hasn't moved on that was very weird to me mhm not that they said that
they've moved on from this individual but it was weird to me that it that they came out and they it
sounded like they were so confident that they had Tracked Down The Stalker like oh it's just this goofy guy
that followed her around at a bar what have you well it could be a like you said a flipped comment that she made
that it was just kind of joking oh this guy followed me around at the bar he's a
stalker or it could be that she was talking about a different individual and they just haven't been able to identify
that person again a a statement like that could mean the world or mean nothing because we
don't know the context in which she said it exactly and then what we do have where I thought that the police
statements were very weird in that regard they did come out a couple days later and said hey yeah we have this
information and we spoke about this information with you guys previously but we are now actively seeking additional
information if there was was a an actual stalker or if there was somebody of interest uh to this case and in regard
to what Kaylee had said to her friends again we're getting very little details on what she had said and it could have
absolutely nothing to do with this crime now where my head goes on this Captain was something you had said earlier where
immediately knowing that our victims were out and about that night before they return home the killer comes into
the home and kills the victims and then fleas right I wanted to know and my first reaction was you know what damn it
law enforcement better be all over every person that was at that bar that night all over him like white on rice baby or
everybody that was at that food truck or the person that gave them a ride home but then you compound that stock them if
you with the idea that that two of our victims were at different locations and our other two victims was it we're at a
completely different party a completely different Gathering that makes this so bizarre to me if you had somebody that
got ticked off went off the rails and wanted to do something to somebody that they had interaction with or or
otherwise that night leading up to it why do we have two additional victims yeah and then why do we have two
individuals that weren't victims person just get scared and stop the attack I'd also want to go back further in time and
say was there a house party or somebody at that house party felt like they were disrespected or humiliated or whatever
that maybe came back because this type of weapon to me is not a knife that you're just going to be carrying around
with you to parties so to me this this seems like not just some random thing that this was
actually planned to some level well and what I would encourage here is anybody and I know I'm stating the obvious but
anybody on that campus or in the surrounding communities that knows somebody that has or weeks ago had that
type of knife that type of weapon in their possession please be on the phone with law enforcement and let them know
that you know somebody that had that type of knife this is not it's not an uncommon knife but it's not also a
terribly common knife it's not one that you would find in most people's homes in
fact the only reason why I'm well aware of this knife is when I was in Cub Scouts and boy scouts there was a good
number of of boys that that had this type of knife and would would bring it on like a camping trip or
or something of that nature yeah this is the type of knife to me that you buy and
then you show your roommates hey check out my new knife and they're typically not expensive they're typically not
incredibly wellmade I can't speak to this uh Kar brand I don't I don't know that brand specifically but I will say
this this is not a knife that I would anticipate seeing someone of R AG to have in their possession well speak for
yourself I pretend to be Rambo every morning there's so many unanswered questions and obviously this case is
going to develop more but I actually think as much as we want information a lot of the
stuff that you've been reporting on is the police backtracking on statements and I almost feel like yes they felt
like they had to get ahead of this in the media but I've I actually think that they're making too many statements
because when you have to start going back and correcting little details and the de the devil like you said lives in
the details of these little statements they're making whether they're fully clearing somebody or they've just moved
on from that lead I think they're spending too much time trying to give information to the public I think it
would be better I think law enforcement would be better served to sit back let the leads come in work those leads and
when you have definitive information then you present that definitive information to the public and having
people like the Behavioral Science unit there on scen look I don't think that as get as
many people and as many resources involved as you can I think that if they do come up with some kind of profile of
the killer or Killers that's that's where I think that the FBI could be of the most service is determining how many
people are responsible for these homicides but the the actual profile if it were in fact one
perpetrator because you have a campus because you have a a community of persons that are all roughly about
the same age and they're all like-minded individuals that are attending that school I think the I don't know how much
a profile is going to help you in this situation and you know Captain I'm a big proponent of of these of profiles and
again where I think that the FBI could be of most service is determining how many persons are in evolved it as
difficult as it may be to believe from what I'm seeing here it looks like probably one person involved I would
want to know a lot more about this dog and a lot more about this house I've seen information come out that says that
the layout of this home was tricky it's three stories high which is difficult anyway for somebody that's never been
into the home is this somebody that has previously been in the home as you pointed out is is somebody that could
have been at a house party that took place there at one point uh if these individuals were targeted did they
target the right people there's a million questions here I want to know more about this dog too is this dog
yapper is the dog friendly or not friendly is this dog going to bark and go crazy at a person that they've never
seen before yeah and we again we don't know the location of the dog at the time is it a dog that they put in a cage um
at nighttime and the dog sleeps in their cage I think you're right and wrong I think FBI and law enforcement could
determine if they believe it was one individual or multiple I think you can do that because look we have a idea of
what the murder weapon was then we could figure out the idea of if the killer was
right-handed or left-handed but I actually think because it is a small college and now you have all these
people on high alert and they're going to be looking for every individual that's acting different or or has left
school or maybe left school before these attacks happen I think a profile would do a lot of good because with a small
College people are going to be on high alert and I think that's going to lead to some individuals being looked at that
maybe law enforcement doesn't have on their radar very possible very possible the the other things to consider in this
case as well you know I want to know more about this potential sixth person that is on the lease where were they why
are they not mentioned hardly at all in any of the newspaper articles and the news
articles was that person not even on campus at the time for all we know they' returned home to visit family for the
holidays or maybe finish school early or signed on to the lease and didn't attend
school this year for any number of reasons yeah or they lived in the house for a while and didn't like it and maybe
there was a conflict there when I hear knife attack sleep or no sleep defense wounds or no defense wounds my main goal
as an investigator would be a couple things blood evidence is going to be so key here we've talked about this many
times here in the garage in these types of knife attacks it's almost impossible for the perpetrator to not cut
themselves injure themselves leave their own blood at the scene I'm not so hopeful on that because we're sitting
here almost a month later and those types of tests don't take forever to run now could we have a mixing of blood and
fluids yes that's a possibility and that certainly complicates things so blood evidence would be a high priority for me
uh fingerprint evidence can get difficult here as you pointed out campus house could have been House Parties we
have an additional party that we don't know their comings and goings as well well and we also have a lot of people
that live there and so all their guests that they would have come visit them and
all their family members that might come visit them I think we're going to find and
this is just my gut feeling that there is some sort of premeditation whether there was a conflict at the bar or
conflict at the party or conflict a week or two prior to this that this individual either got the knife for that
reason or had the knife and then had to go home and prepare themselves and that to me would lead towards they prepared
themselves by getting they probably prepared themselves by getting the weapon maybe putting on gloves maybe
changing clothes that they were able to throw away and that's the other difficult thing for law enforcement you
have a lot of houses you have dumpsters in that area and somebody could have discarded their
clothes pretty easily and quickly could it have been somebody that was watching the house that this had been something
that was bubbling up for some time it that stands to reason a little bit considering that the two surviving
members of the household returned first and they were unharmed and the attack doesn't go down until after these
other four people return to the home the other thing that that I want to Circle in on here that is is
concerning and these knife attacks there's there's a considerable amount of blood and I know that I talked about
blood evidence but this is on that same regard Footprints you would expect to find
bloody Footprints at this scene and that would be very good evidence that could lead you to your killer that would be
great evidence that's going to let you know if we should be looking for one two or three people the problem here and my
major concerns and the red flags that I have in this case where I I sit back and
I go you know what and I know forgive me Captain because two of these individuals
are are likely just victims themselves having been roommates and losing very close friends and and experiencing
something that that none of us should ever have to experience so just forgive me while I go down this road of
speculation here but my concerns are are twofold one when it's when it's stated that you called someone else before a
call to 911 was made and the 911 call is then about an unconscious person the the
amount of blood that would have been at that scene and we're not talking about they discover a victim at 6:00 in the
morning when it's still dark out 5 in the morning when it's still dark out this is 11:56 a.m. or 11:58 a.m. when
the 911 call comes in to to me I and I you don't have to be a garage expert to sit here and go you know there's a
there's clear and obvious differences between a stab victim and somebody that's just blacked out or passed out
and unresponsive there should have been blood indicators there to to tell these roommates that something else happened
here and instead a call goes out to a third party or to additional people that then come into our into the home and
then into our crime scene right and trample our crime scene where bloody shoeprints could have been the key
indicator of who is responsible for this bloody shoeprints could have been the breadcrumb trail that led you directly
to your perpetrator and now we got people there trampling all over our crime scene and and the call that comes
in is weird and I and here's the thing very likely the 911 call if we had the audio for it would probably clear a lot
of that up yeah and what we've learned through covering so many cases is that cases are similar so I think you can
look into spree killings like the one that Bundy did the one that Richard spec did or any other spree type
killing and I think you'll find similarities in those crimes and this crime in Idaho but I also am drawn to
crimes like Lulu Lemon where they find somebody at the scene that now we quote unquote call victim and then ultimately
becomes a suspect ultimately becomes the person charged with the murders of that
crime and if I killed a roommate well let me invite a bunch of other people over to the crime scene to
start contaminating it so it's it's not I think unfair to say if I was law enforcement like I stated at the
beginning of the show if I'm law enforcement those are the two individuals I'm looking at and anybody
that came over to that house anybody that they called I'm starting there and I'm trying to vet them as much as I can
before I move to the outside Circle so many questions and I hope that the families and the students and the staff
and everybody involved gets the answers that they so rightfully deserve sooner rather than later and hopefully we can
start to close out this case and again our thoughts and prayers with everybody that have have been impacted by this
horrible tragedy I know that we did our shows a little different than we do traditionally here in the garage this
week this for those that have never experienced or subscribe to our other show off the Record these shows are much
closer to what we do on off the Record and you can sign up for that by going to our website at True Crime
garage.com next week we will be back in the garage and doing our traditional shows as one would expect we hope that
you will join us again next week until then be good be kind and don't [Music] litter
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Idaho College Murders ////// 634

Part 1 of 1

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This week we take a break from our more traditional True Crime stories to have a discussion about a case that is very much in the headlines and hearts of so mane people. Sunday, November 13, 2022 - Moscow, Idaho Police responded to a house regarding a report of an unconscious person. The 911 call came in at 11:58AM. When police arrived they found four University of Idaho students dead in an off campus rental house. This was quickly ruled to be a quadruple homicide. The victims were identified as Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves and Xana Kernodle. This case is very new and police are seeking the public’s help. To submit information or to speak with someone please call 208-883-7180 or you can email information to TipLine@ci.moscow.id.us

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Brief Summary

Four University of Idaho students were murdered in November 2022; the investigation remains ongoing with no suspects identified.

Key points

Moscow Police Investigation. Police are trying to provide information while protecting the integrity of the investigation.
Community Safety Concerns. Police initially believed the attack was targeted but later backtracked on community safety assurances.
Call for Public Assistance. Police are seeking public help and surveillance footage to solve the case.
Hunter Killer Game Overview. A customizable mystery game that engages players with realistic clues and community support.
Investigation Updates. Law enforcement is working hard on a recent case with limited information available.
Timeline of Events. A detailed timeline reveals the last known movements of the victims before the tragedy.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

There is a threat to the community whether it's targeted or not.

1:14WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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