Mary Pinchot Meyer /// Part 1 /// True Crime | Forensic Files

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help, man will be what he was born to be, free and independent. [Music] This week marks the 53rd anniversary of
the assassination of our 35th president, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He was shot and
murdered in Dallas, Texas at the young age of 46. Now, we're not here to talk about that today, but I'm sure we're
going to end up talking about it at some point. Yeah, at some point, but we're going to
have to spend like half a year talking about that. Well, it it's this time of year and it happens every year where you
start seeing, you know, on A and E and uh all the the the documentary style channels that we start seeing things
coming out. Oh, new information about the JFK assassination and oh, this has been uncovered and now we're going to
show you uh a different documentary that's actually the same one you watched last year. We just changed it a little
bit. Uh so we have this every year in the uh late November just before Thanksgiving where we are reminded of uh
what took place in Dallas, Texas back in the uh 60s and we're reminded year after year after
year. Um and this has been a a huge topic of much debate ever since that day in Dallas, Texas.
Um but today we are here to talk about Mary Pincho Meyer. Mary Pincho was born October 14th, 1920 in New York City, New
York. Uh she attended and graduated Vasser College. She went on to meet Cord Meyer Jr. in 1944. Cord had served in
the United States Marine Corps during World War II. Mhm. And he was a bit of a war hero, but as a
young man, he seemed to be more of a peace lover of someone that didn't really believe in war. And it seems that
maybe the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor had changed him and that is when he decided to sign up for the Marines.
He fought in the Pacific War and he saw plenty of action. He was wounded in war uh losing his left eye due to a grenade
attack. Uh for this Cord was awarded the Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. Cord and
Mary were married in April of 1945 and they would have three children, all boys. After the war, Cord began a career
in writing and he was writing for the Atlantic Monthly and he penned a couple of books as well, even winning an award
for his efforts. Well, this war um World War II was different than a lot of the wars that we're involved in now. And you
know, we stayed out of the war for so long. Um, and it it was, you know, we were united as a country for the, you
know, the majority of people really understood why we're fighting World War II. Well, and this is why they went on to
become the greatest generation. You don't think like maybe the millennials will be better
than them? No. Who who knows? Maybe. Hopefully. Yes. I mean, if this was the greatest
generation, ideally, you want our country to keep getting better and people as a whole to get better. So, you
know, let's let's, uh, step it up a little bit, people. Um, but, uh, going back to this the story here. So, while
he's while he's working as an author and he would eventually apply for a position
with the Central Intelligence A agency, the CIA. Mhm. Uh now, Cord is he's an ideal candidate
back then in the ' 50s for a position in the CIA, right? He's a decorated war hero. He's very smart. He's an Ivy
Leaguer. Um he's the kind of people that they wanted to fill their offices with and fill these positions with. Uh Court
of course gets the job and the Meyers pick up and they move to Washington DC. Well, you're making it sound a little
simpler than it was. I mean, yeah, he applied for this position, but there's no I he essentially was working for the
CIA for amount of time. Um, they don't know how how long. Yeah. There's some discrepancy on when
he actually officially started working for the CIA. Yeah. So, it's not as simple as, well,
this guy applied for the CIA and then therefore now he's working for the CIA. Now, at some point he was working for
the CIA and then at some point the CIA made that official. Well, as with the CIA, wouldn't you I
mean, I fully believe that they fully disclose everything, right? There's no there's no mystery there. So, yeah, of
course, we don't know exactly when he started, but they when he officially started, they moved to Washington DC,
and they are now the Meyers are living near a very busy road. And in 1954, the family dog was crossing this busy street
and was struck and killed by a car. Now, the strange foreshadowing here is that just two years later in 1956, the same
would be the fate of Cord and Mary's middle son, 9-year-old Michael. Michael was returning home with his older
brother. This was late in the year, uh, December 18th in 1956. Now, this is the time of the year when, you know, it's
very dark. It gets very dark early and this was a busy street and it was not well lit. Most likely the driver never
saw the young boy racing across the street. Uh little Michael was killed pretty much instantly. Now Mary was
notified by her by her eldest son uh who and then she run she runs to the scene of the accident and this kind of shows
me what kind of person Mary was. Mary gets to the scene and while she's there, she comforts the driver of the vehicle
that hit her boy. Mhm. Well, this is it's interesting, too, because um one, a lot of people
would say, "Well, man, there's conspiracy already happening, right? We got a we have a CIA official son, you
know, hit by by a car and dies and would show some evidence of, oh, well, maybe this is a conspiracy, right?
Mhm. But there doesn't look that way. You see what I'm saying? No, this this appears to be completely
an accident. Um and and you know, as we said, it's not something that um when I say the word accident, I don't say that
lightly because we saw just two years before the the dog is hit on the same street roughly about the same time of
year. So there this is a street where maybe the only conspiracy is why isn't there street lights.
Uhhuh. Well, I mean it's also the 50s, right? So I mean it's different time. They
didn't have street lights on every street. But I think this is very telling of who
Mary Pincho Meyer was. Um, you know, when I had heard about this case many years ago, but didn't really, you know,
sometimes when you hear about these cases or or read something on something and you don't really dive into it, it's
hard to identify with the the people as people. And you know, once I got to dive
into this case, I got to see really who she was, you know, and she was a very she was very smart, charismatic, and an
affectionate person as well. Um she was an she was an artist and she was a socialite very very involved in the um
uh the different social circles of the time and very uptodate on her uh ideas and beliefs um about where the world was
heading and and what direction our uh government in our country should be heading. Well, she was a lady, you know,
um before her time, you know, she was You're exactly right. you know, she was uh you know, not the typical a lot of
look, a lot of um they they talk about this a lot in in the ' 50s, you know, women after high school or if they did
go to college, which a lot of them wouldn't go, but they would get a job, but that job was just a placeholder
until they found a man and then they got married and then they would stay at home
and raise their kids. That was the norm. Mhm. this was not the norm for uh Mary at all. You know, she she would get a
job that she would dive into and make it into a career uh going from a bunch of different facets in her life. Now, there
was some trouble going on in the marriage even before the death of their son. Um, and there was, you know, we can
I don't know how much you want to get into rumors, but it it sounds like when they first got married, when they first
when Cord and Mary first met one another, that they probably shared a lot of the same ideals and and a lot of the
same thoughts on things we just mentioned about the direction of the world and and where our government and
our our nation should be helping to lead in that direction. um she was a big uh peace lover um and
had no problem expressing that with with most now I said there were some trouble
in the marriage and um it seems like that Cord once he he had been working for the CIA for a while he became I
don't know how much of a drinker he was beforehand but but the stuff that I've been reading is saying that that he was
kind of changing a bit uh that that he was drinking more and more. And of course, the death of the
child did not help this situation at all. No. No. Um before any of Yeah. Cuz the percentage of people that
can stay together after a loss of a child is is very low. Mhm. And uh rightfully so. Right.
Yeah. But yeah, so now you have this guy, you know, the death of his son. Um but
that's probably way on on her, too. but now he's in the CIA and now what is he learning in the CIA and how much is that
affecting you know his um mental makeup and he had been involved in uh something
called Operation Mockingbird. Um now it's unclear to me whether he was kind of the um
the speculation is that he was the he was the head of it. He spearheaded this thing.
Mhm. Like we see the work that you're doing. you're doing a good job and therefore we
want you to uh spearhead this operation. Yeah. And he had a bit of notoriety for
being in charge of this operation or spearheading. Okay. So, let's talk about what
operation operation mockingber. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean it doesn't matter. Hey, he spearheaded this. Nobody
cares unless there's some, you know, some uh it's this is a weird operation. Yeah. So, B here's the gist of it,
right? Okay. So from my understanding that what the CIA was doing was they were getting in the pockets of people
that were working in different areas for different newspapers. And this way when
a story would come about they might have an opportunity to skew it uh in the direction that they would like. Uh
especially if they wanted something to put the CIA into a good light or or have a good ring about it, so to say. Um, and
this may have even carried over to uh to radio and eventually TV as well, I'm assuming. Uh, one doesn't really know,
one being me, the extent of this operation and how far it carried. Um, I wonder, you know, you definitely know it
was happening in Washington DC and it was probably happening in other major areas that being New York, Chicago, LA,
things of that nature. All right. So, but let's let's make this clear. Okay. So, one of the big conspiracies that
people talk about these days is this whole Illuminati, right? People talk about the Illuminati. And one of
one of the things that people talk mostly about the Illuminati is that they are controlling media and that they will
also control arts and things of that nature. And the overall idea uh is that if we put out all this dumb garbage that
you'll be so consumed with dumb garbage and we're not putting out this idea that
you need to be a thinker, that you need to dive into things, you need to be an intellect, you need to care what's going
on. And therefore, if you don't really give a [ __ ] what's going on and you're just stuck on your phone all day, that
the government can do whatever the hell it wants to do. And then that and the other governments can do whatever the
hell they want to do. And a lot of people will say, well, this idea is completely crazy, right? But now in the
50s, we have this operation called Operation Mockingbird. And here's what it was. You know, to simplest forms, it
was a plan to influence domestic and foreign media. So to influence domestic and foreign media, whatever level that
is. Um, but see see how there's you would have some weight to the the conspiracy of today going all the way
back to the 50s. Well, and the thing we got to point out here too is this operation mockingb bird
was not this is not a theory. This happened. This this absolutely happened. We don't know the extent of it.
Um, and you know the conspiracy theorists can can run with that as much as they like, but again this this did
happen. this was taking place. And and you're exactly right. You know, it's it's the old thought that, you
know, if you can control speech, you can control thought. And you know what? If we can if we can change these stories
and manipulate them any way that we choose, well, guess what, Mr. Citizen? You don't have to do the thinking
because we've already done the thinking for you. So, just sit back and be entertained and enjoy the ride.
Right. And we're going to control the narrative. Mhm. Again, their marriage was having
some issues beforehand and um Mary had confided in Cord that she had gone outside of the marriage. Um
it's rumored that Cord had as well, but there's no hard evidence of that. Uh but
regardless, the death of his his son and this problem with their marriage did not
help his his drinking at all. Right. and he he basically became kind of a mean, bitter drunk. Um, and what would end up
happening is that they would get a divorce in 1958. Cord believed that, you know, there's some uh journals that he
kept and he had wrote in there that he thought that maybe the the death of their son, this might reunite them, so
to speak, that they they might, you know, need to to team up uh to get each other through this tragic event. Um that
ended up not being the case, just divorcing two years after the death of their son. But like I I mean I want to
put some emphasis on the idea that you know Mary was ahead of her time. She she wasn't going to be uh some lady or some
female just to get married and to be her husband's sidekick. She was not interested in that. At least that's what
it looks like from the out outsers's point of view. Now, it should be noted here that in
1954, the Kennedys, uh, John Fitzgerald and his wife, uh, and one day first lady
Jackie Kennedy, they buy the house next door to the Meyers. This is again in 1954
before the Meyers divorced in 1958. Now, this is where we get into an issue of of
how big this story could be. I mean, it's a big story with lots of layers, right? Now, on the surface, it has been
reported that Mary Pincho Meyer and Jackie Kennedy were friends and that they even took walks together.
It's possible. And maybe they took some walks together. But the more I kept digging, it sounds to me like they were
not friends. Maybe they were friendly to one another, but they were probably simply just acquaintances.
Right. After Mary's divorce, Mary still had possession of the house for some time, and she rented the home to a young
woman who was having an affair with Mr. John Kennedy. Uh, and it's hard to put an exact date on it,
but Okay. So, they get a divorce, the the Meyers, right? Yeah. And she keeps the house that is next to
JFK, and then she rents it out to a lady. Yeah. and a single lady. Mhm. And we don't know who that lady is.
Uh I don't have the lady's name, but a little backstory on that is that the that Jack Kennedy had approached Mary
and asked her if if they could rent the home. Now, this was going to be to somebody that would fill the role of
some form of secretary. I don't know if she was a secretary to uh to John F. Kennedy, but I I believe she may have
been a secretary to Jackie, actually. Okay. And now this young woman much younger than Jack Kennedy at the time uh
she she was working for them in some capacity and she was also having an affair with him.
Right. Um so Mary was was aware of uh the things going on in and out of the Kennedy marriage.
There are plenty of rumors uh on both sides. And when I say both sides, I mean Mary and her social circle as well as
JFK and his social circle that u that JFK was pursuing Mary. Well, seemed like JFK just sleep with
everybody. Uh yeah, actually he is my father. No. Um but he So it it's no allegedly.
Allegedly. Uh and I'm going to run for office next year. I mean, he he just seems like the biggest [ __ ] of all
time. Yeah, he he was he was um it's tough for me because I've always I I think he was
a I look You're like I looked up to him. He was a [ __ ] No, I think he was I think he was uh had
the had the makings to be a great leader. Uh but he probably was not a great man outside of the office.
No [ __ ] I mean, he was definitely not a good husband. He's a [ __ ] All right. Well, let's we we all know
about JFK and what he was doing, but but there's plenty of rumor to that we can back up that he was pursuing Mary and he
had an interest in her and she didn't she may not. It's unclear if she was willing in the early, you know, in the
or early portions of this, but at some point, and this would be in the year of 1961,
um there's plenty of evidence to to support that an affair between Mary and JFK had started sometime in the year of
1961. Now, at this point, obviously, JFK is the president of the United States, but and there's speculation on both
sides. I mean, because this was what was so difficult to for me. It was trying to
figure out. I mean, it was just kind of like um his side said, "Oh, yeah. We think something was going on." And some
people that knew her believe it was going on. I don't know how much evidence there is to prove that.
Uh, you know, well, if there there are a few pictures that show them together, which doesn't mean that they were
sleeping together, right? It doesn't show them having sex. It shows them hanging out. To me, this
is just my gut feeling on this situation was this was a lady that was ahead ahead
of her time and this was a lady um that had not you know all ladies had at that time thoughts of their own but most
women weren't capable of speaking them or or wanting to speak them. Um, and she was and she
was this freethinker, uh, artist type, thinking outside the box, uh, some kind of revolutionary
ideas. And I think that was attractive to him. And I think she was like, nah, you don't get what you want. You know,
you might get these other girls, but you don't get me. Yeah. And that that's my gut feeling is that he
was pursuing her and she's going, "Not so much." And I think you're exactly right. I think that would be the appeal.
I mean, not only is she very attractive, but she is she's somebody that is as smart as every man in the room, you
know, or smarter. And and the other thing, too, just like you had said, she was ahead of her time.
You know, a lot of times when there's trouble in a marriage back in the 50s and 60s,
the woman the wife would usually wait around and wait for the man to divorce her. That was not the situation in in
this case. Everything that I could find sound like she was the one that decided,
hey, this is when, you know, we're getting a divorce. This marriage is not working for either of us, and we're
going to get a divorce. I'm the one calling this to action. And in fact, she had actually taken a trip to Europe. I
don't know if it was for several weeks or for a month, but she went off to Europe um with with the thought that you
know what, my marriage sucks. And so I'm either going to go I'm either going to go to Europe and I'm going to have a
good time and I'm going to get away from my husband. Sounds like a good time. And I'm going to come back and when I
come back I'm going to know whether I want to remain in this marriage or not. It's that that I need some time by
myself to figure this thing out. And when she came back she's decided, you know what, it's not working. We're we're
getting a divorce. Which again, and I don't mean to harp on this uh point too much, but in 2016, that's not that crazy
of a idea. I'm going to go to Europe for a little bit, clear my head, see if I want to stay in this marriage. But in
the 50s, that seems like a pretty crazy idea, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it shows her
personality. It shows her intelligence. And to me, it you know, she did have she
was a woman of means, though, you know. she had she had um the ability to do some of these things. I'm I'm you know
sure that most people whether it be men or woman would not have had that opportunity back then or even today.
Um but it does show that she is ahead of her time and again the appeal that that
you know Cord Meyer was a in his own right a powerful man. Yeah. you know, he was he's this is not
just some, you know, some low-level dude that that she married, you know, he's he's a war hero. He's a celebrated war
hero. He's he's was an author. Uh and he had a high ranking job in the CIA. I know there's some debate about
Yeah. He's the original Carl, but um Yeah. Yeah. And you would think that you there would be a lot of appeal uh for
women to want to be around this guy too, a war hero. uh and and in in the CIA, tons of power, money, power.
And that goes back to why I think that she might not have been friends with Jackie Kennedy. And my whole thought on
this is that, you know, time and time again when I am reviewing Mary's personality. She seems to be someone to
me of a person of standards, high standards as well as uh you know, morals and moral values. you know, we see we
see her comforting the person that accidentally killed her her her young child. Um, and I believe that she may have just
known Jackie Kennedy that that that she would not have had this affair with JFK had she actually been friends with
Jackie. You know, some of the little snippets that you will read. That's that's a weird thought, though.
Well, she's okay with having an affair, but she's not okay with the having an affair if she's friends with
the with the wife. But the only reason why I bring that up is because when you first glance at this
case, if you just bring up a quick little snippet about it, the the first thing they say in in in every article is
her and Jackie were friends. Like they they go out of their way to bring that up very early in the story. And what I'm
getting at is when you dive into it further and you review it as a whole, it doesn't really appear that she was
friends with Jackie Kennedy. Appears like she was friends with John F. Kennedy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it it's weird
though to me because it Well, actually, there's actually proof that she's maybe not friends, but she's trying to
influence the women uh of the of the people of power, the men of power in Washington. and she's trying to
influence their wives or their women or the mistresses. Uh she talks and we'll talk about uh Timothy Larry um later,
but so there is some kind of proof of that, but and maybe I'm dead wrong and maybe there's like some solid proof uh
of this affair between uh her and her and John. But to me, it seems like this is a guy that's pursuing her and she's
saying no. No. Mhm. constantly. No. And again, I could be dead wrong on that. Well, but here's Okay, so there what is
the proof of the affair? Because, you know, I don't I don't want to go into this case wondering if that is, you
know, is that the major topic of discussion? No, that's that's not the major topic of discussion
is her murder and and why that took place. Yeah. And who did it? Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the
day, we have this beautiful lady, intelligent lady, ahead of her time, connected to people of power, connected
of to the president. She's connected to uh drug experimentation. She's connected
to the CIA. And this lady goes for a walk and she ends up dead. We'll get to that obviously.
Yeah. But but it's unsolved to this day, right? And I think this is where we address the uh the affair. You know, we
we talked about the back and forth of it. However, you know, what is some evidence of this? Is this just is this
just her saying that she slept with the president? No, it's it's you know, through through decades of since the
assassination, there's been many authors come out with books talking about this affair. And the first time that we see
this kind of come and presented to the masses is in 1976. Now, this was a National Inquirer article, right? And
now everybody's going, "Oh my god, Nick just said that this is true because the National Enquirer reported it on."
However, nobody likes you anyways. Right. Right. But we got to keep in mind that
the uh the article, this is where this is how this thing gets out to the masses. Okay. Um the Meyers, Cord and
Mary Meyer, were both friends with James Truit and Anne Truit. Now, who are they?
Well, James Truit was a well-known uh writer for the Washington Post. Yeah. And and like we said, Cord Meyer wrote some
articles before and I believe that James Truit either penned the article that would later be
in the National Enquirer or he he was the subject of the article. Um now or maybe the source.
Yeah. and Truit, what had happened after um the death of JFK. Truit on occasion had gotten drunk in
public and he Okay. And he he would kind of spout off at the mouth about this affair that had been
going on between JFK and uh Mary Pincho Meyer, right? And so the other thing here is
that that's not just the only evidence, you know, because that's pretty much hearsay, but there's a lot of hearsay.
And what that is is we see many people in her social circles that say that this affair took place.
And we even see people in JFK's social circles that say that this affair took place. There are references uh to Jack
having said things to to other men of power in the White House, you know, about how fond he was of Mary and how
Mary might be a person that would be hard to live with because she was so forwardinking.
Yeah. Um and there's also Could you imagine the fear of the 1950s male, you know, can't can't have a woman
with an opinion? You know how hard that would be? Oh, you know how hard that would be to live
with? I mean, come on. Well, and the other thing is there there is evidence once JFK was in the White
House. Why? Because we have the Secret Service involved who has to monitor the president and his movements and and his
visitors. And what we see time and time again in the beginning, uh, there was there was a visitor that was always
labeled as, you know, this would be for dinner parties or for visits to the White House to see the president,
sometimes in closed doors, and this would be David Powers plus one. Well, Mary Pincho Meyer was the plus one,
right? Um, and the the the thing they did there was it was trying to give the illusion
to whoever may be monitoring the situation that David Powers was the actual visitor. and his plus one was his
date, right? Um where actually what we would see later and this is all recorded by the
Secret Service that eventually the plus one didn't drop off from David P's visits. Eventually David Powers
dropped off from the plus one's visits and we would just start seeing Mary Meyer or Mary Pincho at this time now
visiting the president on her own. What do you think David felt when they're like, "Hey, you don't need to show up
anymore." Or or was he the guy that said, "You know what? I'm not I can't keep driving her around for your booty
calls and I'm just sitting outside here the door outside the door looking at my watch."
He's probably just yell and he's screaming at the White House, JFK, you dirty [ __ ] Well, and I think I think
in the beginning a lot of these visits were for dinner parties or for dinners um where you would typically have a plus
one. Um but you know we see over a dozen visits uh in the short time that JFK was
in the White House where Mary Pincho was a visitor to see JFK. Yeah. So to further the speculation and
actually more importantly to further the weight uh to to provide uh validation to
the this affair rumor. Yeah. Between Mary Meyer and JFK even even earlier this year we saw
better proof of that. Right. There was a an unscent letter that was discovered. Yeah. So, in June of this year, uh it
was auctioned off for just under $89,000. That's a lot of rolling papers. That is that is a lot of chedda for a
unscent letter. Yeah. And so this how does this come about? This was this was uh stored by
JFK's secretary in a in a safe somewhere. Um and it was never sent to Mary Pincho, but uh it was thought to be
written for her. Yeah. So the idea was roughly about a month before JFK's assassination in
1963. Uh he wrote this letter. Uh it was on um President Letter head or White House
letter head. Uh that letter that the letter head was actually cut off. They believe that like um you know if he'd
send a private message and he didn't want like some backtrack, right? We can't backtrack it to him. Now, a lot of
people then speculate, well, okay, one, why wasn't it sent? Cuz it was never sent. Um and was it actually from uh
John F. Kennedy? They did a wa watermark test based on his pen. Uh, I think they
had the like old school like dipping pins or the fountain pens or and so they could tell that it was his watermark
which was interesting. So, let's just dive into this letter a little bit. Okay. So, this is what it reads.
So, it's a fourpage note basically. Yeah. Yeah. It's not not super long. And some have deemed this as a almost
begging letter to mistress, right? So, why don't you read read what what is believed that JFK wrote
and if you look this up on the internet, I'll try to post pictures on Instagram about this and and you can find those on
the website as well. Uh just so you can see it. It is I could not like I had to look up a transcription of this because
it was so hard to read. I mean, not only was he a dirty [ __ ] but I mean he couldn't. His penmanship was awful. Um,
okay. So, it says, uh, why don't you leave suburbia for once? Come and see me. Maybe I should read it
like this. Be like Barry White. Uh, okay. Why don't uh why don't you leave suburbia for
once? Come and see me either here or at the Cape uh next week or in Boston the 19th. I
know it is unwise, irrational, and that you may hate it. On the other hand, you may not, and I will love it. You say it
is good for me not to get what I want. After all these years, you should give me a more loving answer than that. Why
don't you just say yes? Now, some people say it's a love letter. And he just he just signed it J
with the letter J. Yo, Jay. Well, and it could be a love letter. I mean, there the not only the thought was
that there was this affair between the two of them. Sounds like a very insensitive love
letter. If it's a love letter, it was not like, you know, you smell so good. I love your hair.
Yeah. But I like to cuddle with you. But again, let's think of Mary's personality.
I like to be big spoon if she'd be little spoon. Do you think Mary would even bother with
a with a person that would write things like that? I think that she I don't No, I think you have a better
chance than riding that dog [ __ ] Well, he's just asking her to come and visit him.
No, basically what he's saying is like, look, I know you might not like it. I know it's unwise and irrational, but
it's a booty letter. That's all it is. Come see me. Here's an option. Here's an option. I'm not going to put that much
time and effort. I am going to put two paragraphs on four pages. What do you think that is?
If you have you have two paragraphs and you put it on four pages, it's because you had nothing to say and
so you wanted to put four. You see what I'm saying? Mhm. Like I have nothing to say to you. So to
make it seem like it's more important, I put it on more pages. I write bigger. Or do you think it was maybe it was just
going to be a one note? I think he was drunk. I think he was drunk and thinking, man, that that Mary
Meyer, she is she is so sexy with her thoughts and opinions. But again, regardless of your opinion of it being a
booty letter or whatever, it it there is thought there that with this affair that
this was not just an affair for JFK. You know, we knew he had many trrists and many things outside of the uh many
indiscretions outside of his marriage and but the thought was by his friends, by the people that knew him best um that
that this was somebody that he actually had a an emotional relationship with. Well, and and look, that might be the
case. I'm just saying that that letter has no proof of that. There's not like I love you. It doesn't there's no nothing
complimentary in the letter. Right. Nothing at all. There's not one thing that's complimentary.
I can agree with that. But again, I think I think there are some things to point out that he may have been he may
have been in love with her in some fashion more so than you know where these some
of these other affairs were just Yeah. But that's what I'm that's that's what I'm saying so frustrating about
history in general or cases in general is when they go, "Well, he he loved her." Okay, where's the proof? Well, we
got this love letter. And then you read the love letter and it's not a love letter. That's that's my problem with
it. Well, where's the proof? Oh, well, his friend said so and then we got this love letter. It's not a love letter.
It's like I said, there is nothing remotely complimentary there at all. I agree. But what I'm saying is that the
the the level of their relationship is important to Mary's story to to her murder because the the thought is that
if there if her murder was some kind of conspiracy, right, that she would have had to just been
something more than a fling that that she would have for for an organization or a group of people to conspire to
murder her and cover it up. It's because she had to have known something that that others didn't. And you talked about
how how big of a of a [ __ ] JFK was, let's say. Right. Right. [ __ ] So, so then there should be women
dropping dead all over the United States if if there if there's not something, right? But I think that's I I think that
kind of talk and that kind of speculation is very dismissive to who Mary Meyer was. It's dismissive to say,
well, if there is a conspiracy, if there is something more to her murder, that she had to be in love with JFK or JFK
had to be in love with her and it couldn't just been a fling or something that happened when she was drunk and
that maybe she didn't want when she was sober. Look, so I think that minimalizes
her here. Here here's what it was. She is married to a CIA, right? high high official and CIA project marking uh
mockingb bird lives next to JFK is and then and we're not even talking about the Timothy Liry stuff.
I think she knew a bunch of people in the inner circle. Oh, without a doubt. And she was a woman of power. So that
that's all the the conspiracy theory you need to know. So the the fact if if JFK was in love
with her does not define her story. You know, you see what I'm saying? No, but it adds chapters to her story.
No, I I Yeah, I get that. But the thing I But what I'm saying is if that we just
assume like all I'm saying is maybe they had affair. Who cares if they're in love? It doesn't matter. You know, the
fact the facts are that this person Mary Meyer knew a bunch of people of power. She was trying to influence other people
with her ideas. This president is assassinated. Tons of conspiracy there. A year later,
right, about a year later, the Warren Commission comes out, has their findings, and a couple weeks
later, this lady is murdered. Mhm. All I'm saying is that minimizes her as a person. If it's like, oh, well, we we
have to we have to prove that he loved her or something to make her story valuable.
No, but we we don't have to prove that he loved her. What we what we have to prove is that whether or not her murder
was just a just a random act of violence, right, that we see every day in the newspapers
or if it was a something organized and put together by a a group of people. And if it were to be that the second that
she would have had to have known something, known somebody or said something that would would have that
cause and effect. Mhm. Um and and you're right though, you did you did lead onto something there that I
like. Maybe maybe her death wasn't an attempt to cover up something she knew from JFK. Maybe it was an attempt to
cover up something she knew about the CIA from things that she knew from being married to somebody in the CIA.
Right. But we we should get into um the day of her death. Now, this is um October 12th,
1964. Now, at the time, Mary had she had moved on. She wasn't living in the home that
that was, you know, formerly next to the Kennedy's old home. Um, and she was working as an artist and she had a
studio and she would typically go in and do her work, do her studio work and she
would leave around lunchtime, around noon every day and she would take a take a somewhat lengthy walk and this was,
you know, if the weather was good, she did this every day. Yeah. She's primarily a painter.
Mhm. So, she goes out for her walk and this is on near the uh Chesapeake and Ohio
canal. Um and there's a toe path down there and she would go down there for her walk and
she's still in Washington DC and around um noon time. This is around noon time. But to tell this story
properly, we have to introduce a new character. Now this is Henry Wiggins. Henry Wiggins
is a tow truck driver. And Henry Wiggins has an assistant. His name is Bill Branch. And the two of them are called
to the 4,300 block of Canal Road and they are going there to fix a stalled vehicle. This is a Nash Rambler. They
arrive approximately at 12:20 p.m. Again, this is Monday, October 12th, 1964. Now, less than 1 minute after they
arrive, Henry Wiggins, he hears the screams of a woman, and he hears these for approximately, he says, 20 seconds.
Now, is it just are the screams saying anything or is it just, you know, Yeah, I he he says that he had heard uh
you know, someone help me, please help me, something of that nature, right? And so he decides to run towards the
danger, right? Uh he he hears these screams for about 20 seconds, which is followed by a gunshot.
Okay. Now, approximately 10 to 20 seconds later, this is while Henry Wiggins is running toward Canal. He's
crossing Canal Road and he's running toward um where he's hearing these screams in the gunshot. So, 10 or 20
seconds after the first gunshot, he hears a second gunshot. At this point, Wiggins approaches what
what has been referred to as the lower wall. And he gets up on this wall and he peers over. And what he says he sees is
he sees an African-Amean man standing over what appears to be the dead body of a woman.
Uhhuh. And he identifies um the you know the clothing that he sees this African-American man wearing. He says
that he sees the man wearing a dark um I want to say ball cap, but it's wearing a
dark hat with a light colored beige um long sleeve jacket and dark pants and dark shoes.
Um well, this is 64, too, so ball caps would be less likely. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I just always call them ball caps,
right? Um but uh this is a you know, hat with a with a bill. Good job. Good job.
Thanks. And uh he says that he sees this man standing over the dead body of a woman. Now he says that the man doesn't
seem to be like, you know, he he doesn't seem to be doing anything other than standing there. The man's arms are down
to his sides, right? And no gun in the hand or anything. He says that he saw something dark in
the man's hand, right? But and the man turns and looks at him. Now, at this point, Henry Wiggins is a little
more than a hundred feet away from from the man and from the body. Okay? And he sees Henry Wiggins and he doesn't
like take off in a sprint. He just kind of briskly walks away. Um, and at this point, Henry Wiggins, he he gets down
because he's he's worried now that the man has seen him and he may come after him. Um, so it's it's phoned in that uh
that there has been an attack and very quickly within minutes the the police department arrive on the scene
and they are quick to close off the the exits and entrances to this toe path. you would have to take uh you know sets
of stairs to get down there. And they they block off all of these entrances and exits. And during the course of this
time, they have sent out the description of the man that they are looking for. They're looking for an African-American
man wearing a dark dark hat, dark trousers, and a and a light colored jacket. So, this is within just about 10 minutes
to 15 minutes of the of when the gunshots are originally heard. Now, the police are searching the area
and they've they've supposedly got it all blocked off, right? And so, if the killer is still in the area, he's got no
room to escape. He he's he's trapped and they're going to find him. They're going to find him if he's still
there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they they locate a man uh approximately a little after 1:00.
This is might even be closer to 1:15. They locate a man who is matching the description somewhat of the man that
they are looking for. The man that they see is a African-American man. He has um
similar clothes that was described in the call. Now, the man approaches the police officer. The crazy thing here is
though, this man is soaking wet. Uh, I guess it's not that crazy because they are near the water, right? But I mean,
he's he's soaking wet to the point of when the the officer asks the man to identify himself, he says that I am Ray
Crump. And not only that, he pulls out his wallet to produce his identification. And when he does that,
the the officer sees water noticeably dripping from the man's wallet. I mean, he was he was soaked.
Yeah. And why is he soaked? Uh, well, that's that's what the police want to know. The other thing here, too,
is the officer notices that the man's zipper on his pants is down or his fly is open.
Um, now here's the thing. They ask him where he is, you know, where he was and what he's been doing um for the past
hour. And he he says that I that he was fishing. Yeah. And he had he was falling asleep on one
of the rocks and because he was down there drinking and fishing and at some point he had fallen asleep and fallen
into the water. And now the officer asked him, you know, where where is your fishing gear? You know, where's your rod
and reel and your tackle box? And he says, well, I don't have any of that because all of
that fell into the water as well, and I was not able to to retrieve that. And the main look, you could go fishing with
just a pole. So the the main thing is my pole is in the water, right? And the officer does, he asks the uh man
to take him to where he was fishing so that he could help him retrieve the fishing rod. They go down to the rock
and and Ray Crump says, you know, this is where I was and um you know, this is where I've fallen in. and they look and
they don't see any obvious signs of a fishing rod. Um, the man is arrested. Yeah. Well, I think I think the cop was
going, "Hey, show me this spot. Show me where you fell in the water." Cuz that's
pretty odd. And keep in mind, he's being arrested because, you know, one, his story isn't
matching. it it isn't adding up to the officer first of all and second of all he matches the description of the man
that they were looking for. Now at this point though he is minus he is minus a coat he is minus the jacket and minus a
hat. Um so they arrest this Mr. Trump. And the the thing here though is this is where we immediately start to see some
discrepancies in the description of the man that they went looking for, right? And the man that they have in custody.
Well, and the man they're looking for, we don't know if that is the killer. We just were looking for the guy that
the tow truck the tow truck driver um saw standing over Mary's body. Yes. And a and a a more complete
description of the man that that uh Henry Wiggins had seen standing over the dead woman's body is he had seen an
African-American man uh between the height of 5'8 and 5' 10 in tall, approximately 185 lbs, wearing a dark
plaid cap, light beige jacket, dark trousers, and dark shoes. Now, Ray Crump, according to his driver's license
or to his identification, is 5' 3 and 1/2 in and he weighs 130 lb, soaking wet. 5 foot three.
5 foot three and 1/2 in. That's a tiny man. Mhm. Um, when he is arrested, they do note
that he uh they list him at 5'5 and a half inches. Apparently, he was wearing um shoes that he was wearing lifts
basically, like so he would appear to be of a more uh normal height, let's say. Um and he would he may have been closer
to 140 pounds at that time. So, police believe that they have their man, right? And the coroner report is going to note
that the the dead body, the dead woman that was found near the toe path was that of Mary Pincho and she had been
shot twice. She had been shot once in the head and once in the back. Now, the thing about the the shot that went in
her back was that it was angled at a way that it pretty much severed her uh aorta
and she was she had been killed practically instantly, you know, so she's not, you know, you heard the
screams. She's attacked. She's shot, according to Henry Wiggins, she's shot within 10 seconds or 20 seconds of of
each shot. And you know, she's not able to provide the police with anything once
they arrive because she's already passed. After arresting Mr. Crump, the the police continue to search the area.
Um they are now looking for his dark cap and his jacket. Uh they are able to locate items that match the these
descriptions. Um, however, what they're not able to find is a gun, right? Uh, and they never would recover a gun.
They would spend lots of time and lots of effort down there looking for the murder weapon. This is never retrieved.
Yeah. The Where do they find these, you know, where do they find the cap and the
jacket? Do they say where? Yeah. Um, I believe one of the items I believe it was the jacket they were
looking for in the water, right? Um, and Crump had said that he had lost it in the water or assume that it had
gone into the water and that was located in the water. Um, now the cap, I believe, was found on on the ground and
it was found um not near the actual murder scene uh but it was found uh closer to where he had said that he he
was fishing. Right now, they did they did a hair sample to determine that this was in fact his cap.
So, he was wearing a hat that day. Um, and this jacket was most likely his. Um, the the thing here is though, there's no
gun found, right? And one thing that the police did not do is they did not conduct any tests to determine if Trump
had fired a a gun that day. Um the reason being is they are saying that that was not necessary because when they
found him he's soaking wet. Um and this this would make the the test appear to be negative regardless of the actual
truth. Um yeah uh they should have done the test. You're exactly right because because they even found that if you uh
you know even if you shower, even if you you know use soap and all that stuff that it normally this test still is
positive if you shot a gun that day. And you're exactly right and that's why they should have conducted the test
because you know the masses know generally now more about how these procedures work and and the things that
you should do when when a crime is committed and when you're investigating it. I think back then it might have been
a little easier to kind of just tell, well, we didn't do this because of this, and the the general public may not know
any better to question it again. Uh, but you're exactly right. There have been plenty of people that have suggested and
and said that, you know, we've found that even after someone has fired a gun, they could wash their hands a dozen
times. Yeah. And we're still able to detect the firing of a weapon. About 24 hours after
the crime was committed and after the arrest of Ray Crump Jr., a man uh identifying himself as Army Lieutenant
William Mitchell goes to the police. This is October 13, 1964. He goes to the police and he says that he was running.
He was a jogger and he would normally take a run and he had run past Mary Meyer uh on the CNO canal path, tow path
in Georgetown. Right. This is just a short time before her murder. Uh he claims that he had seen an
African-American man matching the description of Ray Crump Jr. who had already been arrested the day before. Uh
that this man was following Mary. Um this this would add to um the the police already, you know, this would bolster
their speculation that Ray Crump Jr. was in fact guilty of of the death of Mary Pincho Meyer.
Right. What do we have here, Captain? We have We have a a woman age 43 2 days before
her birthday on October 12th, 1964. Beautiful lady. That's right. Respected woman, mother,
artist. She goes out, takes a break from work as she normally would do every day
of the week and go for a long walk, maybe to catch some fresh air or some inspiration for her art.
And during that that walk, she is attacked. She's shot twice. Uh, according to the coroner report, she's
drugged about 25 ft. Well, she dies dies instantly. And dies instantly. Um, shot in the
head, shot in the back, dies instantly. And the police block off the area after receiving the call from uh the tow truck
driver. And now they are pursuing an African-American man. They locate this man named Ray Crump Jr. who is
he's wet, right? He's he's wet, soggy dog. His flies undone. His his story does not
match up. He's saying that he got drunk while he was fishing alone, fell asleep on the rocks, and
fell into the water. Um, now we have him in custody and we have um a man that comes forward saying that
he saw Crump or a man matching Crump's uh description following Mary Meyer just shortly before her death. Now, this
is a murder case that would go on to be covered by many different people uh time
and time again uh for decades. and well her connection with the president but also with her connection with the
higherups in Washington and not not only that her strange murder and the you know if if that's where if
that's where this story left off then or I mean if that's where this story ended
right here this story wouldn't have been uh covered by so many different people for years. There's a lot more to this
and what's going to come out in the trial is very interesting. You're going you're going to hear reasons why the
prosecution say that Ray Crump Jr. is guilty. And there are some curious reasons why he might just be innocent of
this crime. All right, we'll cover that in part two. Do we have a recommended reading?
We do have a recommended reading. Let me dig through my notes here. This week's recommended reading, we have Mary's
Mosaic. Uh this is the CIA's conspiracy to murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pincho Meyer, and their vision for world peace.
This is by Peter Janney. Uh, and this was originally published in 2012, so it's pretty fresh stuff. Uh, but there
has been a more updated version which does include new evidence and never-beforeseen government documents to
further corroborate this the conspiracy to assassinate JFK and Mary Pincho Meyer. And Peter Janney actually knew uh
Mary Meyer. He was friends with um with her son that was killed in the car accident. Um
so very interesting child childhood friend of her yeah of Michael Meyer. Now so you can
pick that up by going to truimegrage.com click on the recommended page and we have our books there. Just click on the
Amazon banner and pick up uh any of our recommended reading or any of your holiday shopping as well and kick it up
to the garage. Yeah, I mean you can it gives a little kickback. I mean, if you need some uh
new stockings for uh you know, for Christmas, not for your legs, for to hang to hang
in the family room. Ladies, if you need there's nothing better, you know, than never mind. I'm
not going to go into that. Okay, so anything on Amazon, buy it, click through our banner, they give us a
little love and uh we appreciate it. And a big happy Thanksgiving to everybody out there. Captain, you
looking forward to Thanksgiving? You earlier you said it's just another Thursday. It's just another Thursday.
Well, I'm looking forward to it. I'm hoping for turkey as well as a honeybaked ham. Uh, and plenty of beer
to go with it. Maybe a Dallas Cowboys victory. Ezekiel Elliott like 300 touchdowns if that's even possible. Uh,
but big happy Thanksgiving to everybody out there. Be safe, be good, be kind, and don't live.
[Music]

Mary Pinchot Meyer /// Part 1 /// Episode: 62

Truecrimegarage.com

In the 60's there was little doubt that America was changing. The debate has always been and remains, who was in charge of those changes. Mary Pinchot Meyer, a divorced smart woman in her forties with ties to the CIA and the White House is just one of several that may have been silenced in that era of change and social growth. October 12, 1964 Mary went out for her usual midday stroll to get some fresh and air and maybe a little inspiration. While out walking near the C & O canal Mary was attacked. She was shot twice, died practically instantly and left for someone to find. Police make an arrest and the trial is set. But do they have the right guy? Or was Mary killed by some shadowy agency because of an affair with the late President Kennedy and because she "knew too much." This week in the garage we take a look at the unsolved murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer and find out what we know.

Beer of the week - Mr. President by BrewDogGarage grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

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Brief Summary

Mary Pincho Meyer, connected to JFK and the CIA, was murdered in 1964, raising conspiracy theories about her death and its implications.

Key points

Podcast for Beer. The hosts jokingly ask for beer donations to support the show.
JFK Assassination Anniversary. The episode marks the anniversary of JFK's assassination, setting a historical context.
Mary Pincho Meyer Introduction. Introducing Mary Pincho Meyer, a key figure in the episode.
Operation Mockingbird Revealed. A covert operation from the 50s aimed at influencing media.
Mary Pincho Meyer: A Woman Ahead of Her Time. Mary's independence and progressive views set her apart in the 50s.
The JFK Affair Rumors. Speculation about JFK's relationship with Mary Pincho Meyer surfaces.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I'm thankful for you. For you.

Nick expresses gratitude to listeners.

3:42WatchJul 7, 2025

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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