Madeleine McCann /// Part 2 /// 121 | Forensic Files

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thank you all right Captain we have to Dive Right In because we are about waist deep in
this whole Madeleine McCann disappearance and investigation we already covered a lot of stuff yesterday
and still a ton more to get to today we want to start looking at items and does it Point towards guilt or innocence and
of who specifically the McCann family so what we'll do is we'll start the day that she went missing which or the night
she went missing May 3rd correct so we have the timeline we discussed the timeline uh yesterday and but there's
some things to look at inside of this timeline first of first of all the the number of times that the the persons
involved being questioned seemed a little light to me Captain it seemed like you know that they didn't sit down
with these key players to to produce this timeline what it was wasn't until seven days later yeah so on May 3rd they
kind of got a rough idea of what happened happen but I don't know if they actually jotted down these notes or not
they're all they also talked to some of the individuals that worked at the hotel
but again they were more focused on the search which you know makes sense at the
time uh again I think investigators should have looked at this as the worst case possible you know worst case
scenario and also when you're showing up to a scene and the mother is saying hey
the window was open somebody took my daughter make that a crime scene uh they didn't do that so there's some
inconsistencies here now they didn't get the Tapas nines statements until about seven days later so that's a flaw in the
investigation but some of the stuff with the Tapas Nine Stories don't line up with each other correct and some of that
could be chalked up to well it was seven days later Annie just went through this
world when uh 48 Hours of non-stop searching for this little girl one big problem that we have with the timeline
itself is that it doesn't actually line up with what is give even information given to them by employees and staff at
the resort itself right there seems to be a discrepancy that could go what about 30 minutes
um what do you think about that just jumping off the page there before we get into the timeline itself the discrepancy
between the resort staff and the the Tapas not again I believe that yeah you look for the girl you do a search but as
you're looking for the girl you're possibly looking for somebody that took the girl
so I get that but they should have locked down that scene for sure but as far as like the stories lining up I
don't know if it points to a guilty or innocent for as far as the mccains go so to me it's like just some moot point is
bad investigation I can't go back and fix it we can the in the these individuals were only question one time
uh this case has gone on for 10 years they could have been questioned more often to see if maybe they remembered
something differently so as far as the story is not lining up with the resort or with themselves I don't think it
points to innocence nor guilt the thing here is you know you know I don't want to sound like
we're laying it on the investigators too too heavy because you know the the problem is when you walk into a
situation like this you can't go okay time out and freeze time and take a look at everything and and cover all your
bases no everything is still happening around you if in fact what you could do is lock down that scene yeah correct and
if in fact she's been abducted well she could be potentially getting further and
further away from you and that scene just within minutes and hours of of your presence correct okay so the other issue
we have here is and I'm going to point to something that we talked about last week when we covered the fifth nail one
thing that I was really impressed with was the way that they handled that investigation and the thing that
impressed me the most was we had several investigators coming out and saying you
know what we're looking into something that there's no profile for we've never showed up to a home before and seen a
family taken out and then we have abducted people from that same scene there's we've never seen this before we
don't know how to react to this right and that's what you're doing in the early stages of an investigation you're
ultimately reacting to the scene that you are finding and what you're finding within that scene so I think one thing
that they did really well in the in the fifth nail investigation was they broke off into two teams and they said okay
one team you're going to focus on the abduction finding the the children the other team you're going to focus on the
crime scene and and this this murder situation that we found here right I know that's tough to do in a lot of
situations but you know if you if you can walk into a scene and you can say we're not really sure what we're looking
at here we don't know if this is an abduction or if something happened on site if you could break off into those
two groups and focus and say you know what Mom and Dad and all of your friends we're going to have to sit you down and
we're gonna have to talk through this while we don't worry don't worry we are not stopping you from finding your
children we are we are covering our bases we're getting much needed very important information because one we
want to find out if we can narrow down what time the girl was taken that's very important so Mom and Dad were asking you
to sit down your friends to sit down we need to discuss this at length meanwhile
there will be a lot there were hundreds of people that night there will be people out there looking for Madeleine
while we cover this process and a lot of the reports were stating one of the things that makes them look guilty is
that they were just kind of around Apartment 5A and they weren't actually looking themselves but again they called
in authorities right they didn't it wasn't like that the resort had to call on authorities
they asked for the the authorities to be there correct and so does that point to
them being guilty or innocent neither because they might have just been doing what the authorities told them to do I
think it points to their innocence and the fact that they did call for authorities and then when those
authorities showed up and things didn't seem to like make sense because the mother stated right away look this girl
was abducted and when they started saying well it's possible that she ran off she's going look there's an open
window there's evidence that points to that she was abducted another key piece of evidence in this whole thing at the
in the early stages of Investigation is that Kate McCain she's uh she would state that she wanted the FBI involved
she wanted higher authorities because this town wasn't known to have a big law enforcement presence and so she wanted
higher ups to come in and help now if you're guilty why would you want that they the other thing here Captain this
might be something that the investigators were very inexperienced at I don't have the numbers in front of me
but I read one report stating that Portugal has a significantly lower child abduction rate than a lot of other
countries out there so might be something that is foreign to them so let's take a look at the Timeline real
quick is there anything that that jumps off of the page immediately the first the first thing that I look at here is
we have the kids quote-unquote day care center where you can take the kids to be
dropped off they can be they can be watched by there's nannies at the resort right now so our first question about
the McCann's Behavior would be well if you're going out to dinner why not take your kids
to to this Center to to be watched by nannies by professional people and they can be picked up after I think most
people that look into this case all pretty much agreed that what they did was uh you know some form of neglect
and some some form of bad parenting yes I can kind of understand it and we differ from this because I've seen video
footage where the mccains are sitting at the bar at the Tapas and they they take
a video footage and they zoom in and they can see their go their sliding glass door from where they're sitting so
would that make you feel a little bit more comfortable yeah but there's Street access to that sliding glass door that
you're leaving unlocked and possibly the front doors possibly unlocked as well so
uh you know it's it's definitely a form of neglect well and what the captain means by he and I differ on something
it's about we we disagree on whether the mccanns could see the back patio to their apartment or not now I want to
throw this out there in the cat this is actually I'm going to defend the captain
not myself if you even though we disagree I watched some video footage that was presented as well as some
photographs taken from an area of that Tapas restaurant right now I was told by the person conducting the video as well
as the person that released these photographs that he was or they were positioned about where the mccanns were
from his position you could not see their patio you could see the top of their apartment but this is why this is
how I'm defending the captain once I saw the photograph and a video thing I didn't look any further so there could
be other angles out there there could be other evidence to uh to go against what
I'm saying here but what I found the limited amount the small sample size that I saw you couldn't see that area
regarding the daycare itself Captain you know you mentioned that it was about 15
bucks an hour maybe they were being cheap kind of kind of the way I lean here and I agree with you I I 100
percent that there's negligence on the parent on the part of the mccanns right the thing here is I I question did did
that daycare did it close at like 9 pm and this would be after they would they you know not a desirable time to return
home uh the other thought here is a lot of people a lot of parents are big about
keeping very small kids on a certain schedule and they don't like to they don't like to stray from that schedule
too much I wonder if it's because it's past their bedtime they thought they could just simply put the kids to bed
and come in and check on them from time to time um right a lot of that is neither here
nor there because you know we can't go back and change that but the fact of the matter is as far as Behavior goes
there's nobody in the resorts that ever said that Jerry or Kate McCain were acting strange in any way nor did they
say any of the Tapas nine were any of them were acting strange now we have the we also have the
situation of the last photograph taken of Madeleine um this being where the parents say that
the picture was taken at almost 2 30 p.m uh the clock on the camera reads about 1
30 p.m and then we can simply later state that the clock is off on the camera by one hour do you do you find
any suspicious Behavior here or anything that points towards uh this would you know
I think it's one of those points that people bring up in this case like that it like it's a big deal uh because we
were talking about this earlier it's kind of like the Brandon Lawson case you feel like if you can solve one line then
maybe you can solve the whole case right and I think any big case like this I mean JonBenet Ramsey Casey Anthony there
becomes these minute details and if you can solve that then you can solve the whole thing so I think people that bring
up this last picture uh look there's you know because they were trying to figure
out the last time that that she's seen alive and so the and the reason why they're
doing that is because they're trying to say well if we make this window bigger right right and she actually has
a picture taken at 130 and not 230 that gives them less of a time for there to be an accident or for them to
accidentally overdose her and then hide her body right there's a couple problems
with that we have one of the tap is nine that claims that he saw her about 6 30 but there's also on record I think like
five five thirty that people from the resort saw her so again this picture doesn't matter because we already have
people seeing her afterwards and that leads us to our next thing here we have David Payne who just after 6 30 he stops
off at the tennis court he talks to Jerry McCann for a second and according to what report you hear either Jerry
asked David to go check on Kate and the children at their apartment in 5A or David asked him oh where's Kate and the
kids and then decides to go up there it doesn't matter who asks who what in my opinion uh but like the captain said we
have David Payne saying that he sees Madeleine during this time one thing that has fallen into question the lead
investigator uh on this early in the investigation who has I should point out has been removed as far as being the
lead investigator in this um he points out a major inconsistency here he states that he has some reports
from the Tapas nine stating that David Payne was at the McCann apartment for close to 30 minutes where you have Kate
McCann stating he was there for more like 30 seconds or one minute he's there for a very brief time period again a lot
of these details that they're asking him about come seven days later after 48 48
Hours of crazily crazy is that even a word crazily that's I just made I'm gonna stick with
that crazily looking for this three-year-old child that's on the vocab test and the computer yes and pewter and
pewterland um sorry about that but the thing here is and look it's it's Fourth of July
we're a little loose sorry I think to me to me this does matter because after this guy leaves after David Payne leaves
well we only have the mccanns after that saying that Madeline's okay and that she's at the apartment so to me this 30
seconds to 30 minutes does matter uh the problem I have here is why can't you just why can't you just
tell me that you know there should be there should be a way to figure this out you if you have multiple people saying
one story is true compared to the other then you would likely believe that that story a is is more believable because
you have other accounts of that same well again okay here's why it doesn't matter that much one you should question
them again but they didn't uh they should question them multiple times they should question that night
they should question the next day they should have they should have seven days of stories and and then look some of
that stuff is going to change but all that changes the time window is by 30 minutes so it either goes from four you
know maybe four hours to three hours I know I just said 30 minutes but it's it doesn't change it that much I mean we're
talking about maybe he sees them at 6 30 maybe he stays till seven so then the police are called about 10 o'clock right
so you got a three hour window that something happened and then you're gonna have to and that you're gonna have to
hide this body now mind you that at 6 30 when he's talking with um Jerry McCain he has an hour-long
tennis lesson so he's not even getting back to the room for another hour right so his tennis lesson would have started
at six and it would have finished at seven so he would have he would have been returning depending on Whose story
you believe uh he would be returning right around the time that David Payne would be leaving if in fact David Payne
was there for approximately 30 minutes right and does this matter maybe it matters because it changes as far as the
timeline goes but it doesn't Point either innocence or guilt towards the mccains so we have a
situation here Captain where we have Jerry and Kate McCann they're arriving at the Tapas restaurant at approximately
8 35 it says that they are the first couple of the group to arrive and now we know
that all of these group members are leaving children behind in their rooms and checking on them periodically now
I've heard you know usually when I when I've talked about this case with with friends and and whoever in the past you
know because this case has been so popular it's not the first friends it's not the first time that it's been you
know brought up as far as over drinks right uh but the question I first hear people say not asking me indirectly just
asking everybody is who goes out to dinner and leaves their kids at home well in this situation
all of them did every every parent in the group did the only person there without children was was a grandmother
well and mind you that you know if you if you have a sick feeling about this to make you feel a little more sick they
did this this is the sixth day of doing this right the sixth night there's there's
conflicting stories of that but this was about five nights yeah this was definitely not the first time at the
very least it was the fourth or fifth time that they had done it on the trip it sounds like it's very possible they
did this every night that it was a very routine trip that they you know they did
a drop the kids off at the daycare during the day went out did some things spent time with the family dirt you know
afterwards and then it's kids go to bed parents go down to the tapas bar and restaurant to eat and drink right now
but just hear me out on this though I mean think about somebody that had you know decent house right you've been to
Buddies they got a decent house they got a pool and I was just hanging out with my buddy the other the other week uh so
he has a nice house sliding glass doors opens up to the pool on the other side of the pool there's a little like bar
area like I don't know what you want to call it it's basically like a little Shack that he he made right now if it
was at somebody's home same distance you know 50 meters nobody would bat an eye you know they'd say oh yeah they're out
by their pull bar drinking and their the back door wasn't locked because they could see it and the front door were
assuming is locked and then the kid goes missing I I'm batting an eye just because of the children's age I think
it's it's a little young it's a little early for that but look I'm not going to tell anybody how to raise their kids I'm
just saying I wouldn't have done well and I believe one of the groups they actually had
um now not the mccains but one of the other sets of parents had actually a baby monitor so look I I think it's
definitely you know form of neglect and if the mccains could go back and do it all over again do you think they would
do that heck no here's where we have our first problem in my opinion you know we
those are all been items that have been discussed and and really been debated uh
to to the end right um so far I don't see anything pointing in the the direction of guilt or not
guilty um here's where we have our first problem in my opinion 905. uh Jerry McCann returns to the
apartment I said during our timeline yesterday that he returned to the Department through the unlocked patio
door to check on the children now one the big problem here is that this story has changed that on one occasion on at
least one occasion Jerry reported to the authorities that he in fact went through
the front door uh which which he States was locked at the time went through the front locked door to check on the kids
and on another occasion says that he went through the unlocked back patio door well let me explain this like I
said they they did this probably five to let's just say five to six nights right
so the first couple nights what they did was people would take turns checking on
each other's kids but they all locked their doors and so they had to have the keys to get into the doors right
so when you're asking somebody seven days later he's not remembering one night he's remembering multiple nights
so and again I think the McCain's even said that the first few nights that they're there they actually didn't go
through the sliding glass door uh they were actually going through the front door correct so again
inconsistencies of stories but uh and the the police always point out that you know the the mccains say that they're
going through the sliding glass door but all the other parents are saying that they're going around to the front of the
building well the ones that were going around to the front of the building were the ones
that were on the second floor because that's how you got to the second floor so there's inconsistencies there right
because you can't enter through your patio that's on the second floor it's a balcony right so is it is it
inconsistent is he being a nefarious I don't think so I think he's just misremembering but when it comes down to
it what it comes down to is what he says when he opens up the door you know the door was opened up a little bit he looks
in he sees the twins but he can't necessarily see Madeline well that's only possible if you're coming through
the back of the room and not through the front door because if you open up that front door you would have saw her first
well because she would be the first person in sight on the eyesight line the thing here is Captain uh we have we
have an issue because one would ask well why would you why would you stray from going through the front door well and
and then change to the back door the the thing here is it's a longer route you know and it they said that they were
worried about noise about waking the children that could be it but it's also a longer route if you look at the route
taken to enter the patio compared to the front door you almost feel like with the
front door you almost feel like you're walking out of the resort leaving the resort you're be on the wall you're now
traveling along the street to get up to that front door where if you are going through the patio you pretty much feel
like you're staying within the walls of the resort and it's almost about half the trip when you break down the time to
get from you know comparing the two the patio is about half the trip well right and if you go through the if you go
through the back door uh back sliding glass door you just have to peek in to the room if you go in the front door you
have to actually go through that room so you can take a leak or whatever Jerry says that when he's in there he sees
that the door is now open quite a bit more than what he thought that they had left it when they went to dinner the
other thing here too is he would later report you know that he he believed that he felt some kind of pres looking back
he says he felt some kind of presence in in the apartment I believe he did yeah um the thing here is well what about the
window and I know we I know we kind of come to that at the end of their timeline but this is something we should
keep an eye on and monitor as we go through the timeline right because right now Jerry's not reporting the window
being open right right now Jerry's not reporting that the door to the bedroom blows shut because he created some kind
of draft depending on which way he entered the apartment okay well the window to the wall
um let's get into the window right after this quick beer break [Music] all right welcome back to the captain
the colonel show Cheers mates all right let's not get to the window yet because there's something we got to get to the
window first right okay so let's say let's go with this at 9 30 this is when Kate is supposed to go back up to the
room and check on the kids instead we have Matt Oldfield and Russell O'Brien they are leaving the table to go check
on children as well so Matt then offers that he will check on Kate's kids while he's away from the table which is not
going to be very hard because he can be told that the patio doors are unlocked and you can just go in that way Matt and
check on the kids right we have some problems with Matthew oldfield's statements and one of them
being that he doesn't physically see Madeleine McCann he states that he kind of just you know kind of peeked into the
door he he thought the door was open more than than what he was told it should be you know but that at the time
didn't matter anything to him he didn't know that the mccanns left the door closed he didn't know that Jerry found
the door open and then closed it more so he he notes that the door is open he just kind of peeks in he sees the twins
sees the twins he also just kind of listens with the old ear don't hear anything nothing nothing seems wrong
here everything's good I gotta run and check on some other kids and then I'm back at the restaurant
the other thing though that he points out here the thing that I think is very important is he also even regardless
whether the door is open slightly ajar all the way open whatever he doesn't he at no time gives any evidence to point
that the window is open at this time either right so no evidence from Jerry or Matt that the window is open well and
there's no evidence of the window being open because there's multiple times that
different people had to walk around to the front of the building so by them walking around to the front of the
building maybe they looked over but they would have noticed if you know because there's this metal like little tiny like
what we talked about like almost like a garage door on over the window it has to
be open I think people wouldn't have noticed that if they walked by the front of the building right so the thing here
though now we have 10 o'clock and Kate goes to check on the room and she states definitively she's got that she's got
that little piece in there about about the door slamming shut or the door blowing shut and I'm assuming that it's
because the window is open and she's created some kind of draft by opening up the patio doors or whatever creating a
draft causing the door to shut we've all experienced that before well Ray and and
look to be fair to these parents I mean look any time that you'd have to check on kids you know you know like you know
my my stepsons used to sleep upstairs by my room if I would go to the bathroom upstairs maybe I would like you know
peek in maybe I wouldn't see both of them but I kind of listen in you know so that's not uncommon you know and so I I
I assume this is why it's a big deal about the door moving it's because I think when Kate went in I think a lot of
these trips that the the parents were making to check on their their kids or it was also I gotta use the restroom you
know we're drinking I gotta take a pee right right and so I think sometimes you know it's just like when Jerry says well
I went in but I I don't really know if I or when they say when they sorry I'm a little discombobbied
now I can't even speak okay I'm just going to keep going screw it um so I think some of them just went in
to take a pee and then they're they're gonna listen right and I think this time this is why it startled her is because I
think she wasn't really going to check in on him I think she's just going to take a leak
right right right or or Give a listen or walk by the door right and that would that would suffice you know but then all
of a sudden the bedroom door shuts and then she's like oh what's up with that so what's up with that so she opens up
the door and notices the windows open right so let's let's let's not give our opinion
yet on this situation right because I want to move on to the next thing she then flees she then FL after looking
around the apartment looking for Madeline she then leaves the apartment running back to the restaurant to say
that and there's some different accounts of what she said but the one that is is
repeated every single time is that she says that they have taken her or you know she's basically stating that
they've that she's been abducted Madeline's been abducted so now that to me I've never liked that
statement I always thought that that was a strange thing for her to say and you and I have had this conversation before
and you point out a very good thing there where you say well it's only strange Nick to say that until you're
the parent and you've seen the window wide open in the same room where your daughter was once sleeping so I get that
I'm on your side with that I have a little issue of her running to the restaurant I don't know that that was my
that would be my first go-to um but again I've never been in this situation I don't know how I would react
one thing that I don't like as well is is it seems that she left the the smaller children alone in the apartment
right to go to the restaurant to report what she believes she she found right again though we're talking about a
pretty small distance you know uh one could argue that she could have actually stayed on you know the balcony and just
yelled yeah she could have shouted it from the patio and you would think you you could hear it from there
um and also they they had cell phones so you could have called or text I think that would have been if I could put
myself in that situation if I had to be in that situation now I have the benefit
of sitting here and thinking about it however I think that would be the go-to for me to run out on that patio and just
shout it from the Mountaintop and hope that hope that the rest you know Resort staff or your friends and my friends and
family hear me um and and all come running yeah or I mean again the thing that I
haven't thought much about so you you've brought it up is that she did leave her
twins that's the thing which are way younger yeah remember when we covered the the Columbus case where where the
man said he was in the woods with his wife and small child and he went ahead of the group and he discovered a man
beating a woman to death and he he decided to run out of the forest and run to a local business and call the police
right to me that went unsolved for many many years and I always thought found it
to be very strange that he would leave his seemingly defenseless wife and small child behind where this Maniac is right
and then run out and and call for help where yes maybe the window open points to her that that the person has fled she
did check the apartment and didn't see anybody in the apartment I but I think at that point they weren't airing on the
side of caution before when they they left the kids alone I would think by this point though you are snatching up
those two small children and you're taking them with you to call for him right possibly or just I'm going to run
out there and maybe she didn't make it all the way to that maybe she only made it 20 meters you know and then they came
running also this would this would actually make sense on why the the window was actually
shut because you're looking around and you can't find your daughter and now you're putting two and two together and
you're going wait a second I think somebody came through this I think somebody came through this
goddamn window right so then you slam the window shut and then you could take off running hey they they've taken her
you know I need help so that would explain why you know when the detectives show up and and other people say well
the window wasn't open right um now let's just go over the evidence on the window they did take fingerprints
the only fingerprints that they found on the window or anywhere by the window was
from Kate right again would make sense because she was in that room she was in that Apartment 5A for you know seven or
six days at that point uh I don't think they even took um forensic stuff or fingerprints for a
long time afterwards so which is odd another you know fail by the investigation well
the thing here is Captain let's discuss this window because it's been said that the window could not be it's been said
that the mccanns stated that the window was closed and the shutters were closed and then you have some people stating
that you could not open the shutter from the outside and I I'll describe the shutter it's metal slats it like the
captain said it looks like a small garage door that would drop down and cover the entire window itself it's
controlled by a by what people say a strap or a cord inside it's like a police system pulley system that would
that would open up this tiny little garage door and then it drops closed yeah you want to think of this as like a
like a Chicago storefront or a New York storefront where they have the metal that slides down in front of the
storefront so every morning they have to lift it up you know and then you see the
storefront and then you pull back down when you leave for the night here's the look at 10 years of talking
about this case 10 years of people looking into this case all they had to do was test it they tested it they had a
guy in his 50s maybe 60s Detective all you have to do is go up put a little bit of pressure on it
and it lifts up a little bit and that allows you enough to open up the window and then you put your hand
through and pull on the pulley and it goes up look yeah but I've seen I've seen it on
video so but for this to work a couple things have to happen when I first looked at that window and looked at the
shutter I was very impressed because I'm like okay this is not just a shutter to
keep the lights out this is a shutter security a security shutter it's a security issue so the thing here is when
I first looked at it I thought you know what that to me appears to be a shutter that you could I believe you could open
it from the outside just by appearance and not even having seen that test conducted right my next thought was that
if I were to force that shutter open that I would cause significant damage to it or a good deal of noise
um that test that you showed me it appears that they didn't have to create damage to the shutter and it didn't seem
to create much noise at all no more than it would if it was normally going up or
normally going closed the issue here though is to get your hand inside the window then the window needs to be on
locked correct that the latch lock would have to be unlocked for one to get their
hand in to pull the thing the remainder of the way up yeah but I think this goes
out to the investigation they didn't test this stuff early enough they didn't ask the right questions about this
window enough I mean I don't know if the McCain's had this window open up earlier
or not right and that's the thing that's the thing they were were asked from the
get-go you know what was this window closed and was it locked and the McCann said you know what we can't state for
sure we can say that it was closed but we can't say definitely that it was locked and second of all you know when
they interviewed the staff the resort staff the cleaning crew said you know it's not uncommon for us to come into an
apartment and open up the windows while we're cleaning and then close them before we leave therefore the mccanns
could have never even operated the window and it was left unlocked by by somebody that stayed there previously or
the hope the resort staff I think I swallowed a bug um yeah and we know that this security
system didn't work too well anyways because these these little uh garage doors if you will are not on the
Windows anymore they actually Place bars on the Windows yeah and I'll tell you what that's the
selling key to me that's what sold it for me Captain I you showed me that test and I thought I might be wrong about
this but what sold it for me with having a background in Property Management I know that that's extra it's so much of a
budget business you know you work within the budget as far as improvements go of
your property right and therefore if you're doing a good job you never pay for any improvements that are not needed
so buy the resort placing bars over this window that tells me that the people that own the property that run the
property and operate it they believe that you can open up those shutters in those windows from the outside and I
just think with all like I said all the evidence and the little tiny details of her stating that the door shut which you
know you'd think that her coming in the back door would create some kind of vacuum or something or some kind of
current to make the door shut so with those little details to me that points to them being innocent and that this was
abduction yeah I'm with you the the the things regarding the window points to stranger abduction to me
um I but I'm going to back that up by saying that Kate's behavior during that period points to uh to their to them
being guilty to string I I find her I find her behavior to be strange so at by this point up until 10 o'clock it was
just abducted I understand that but but up until 10 o'clock I have nothing pointing me in the direction of guilty
or not guilty now we're sitting here at 10 o'clock 10 30 and I'm I I've got one strike for guilty and one for not guilt
it seems like with all these big cases you know in the True Crime world there's always like one little thing about each
case you know like the you take West Memphis Three for example I I have a hard time getting around the fact that
there's an eyewitness that says Damien Eccles and his girlfriend were coming out of the woods that night hard time
getting around that um doesn't mean that I think he's guilty but I have a hard time getting around
that now with this case we got these these cadaver dogs we got these blood sniffing dogs I have a hard time getting
around some of this yeah these are like specialty dogs and when I say that because they they have their own unique
specialty that they do so we have two we have two dogs right we we have uh Eddie
he's the cadaver dog he's the one that can locate human remains and it's and it's just human remains it's not you
know animal carcasses or anything like that then we have Kila she's the blood dog and the way that I've heard it
described and read it in reports is that she can detect the smallest amount of blood in different locations now how do
they these these two dogs not only do they have their their Specialties that they're good at right but they also have
an extremely good track record and I think it's something like over 200 cases where these dogs have been right well
how do they prove that the dog is right well the dog whether it be the cadaver dog or the blood dog hits and alerts the
Handler that there's a cadaver or blood there later even if they can't they can't see the blood they can test for it
and they can find traces of blood there thus backing up that these dogs have a good track record right but that's also
like saying uh you know LeBron James is the best because he's won uh 200 basketball games well how many did he
lose you know what I mean right nobody's perfect nobody but nobody's even stating
how many there they've been wrong on I can't find anywhere but so here's what here's what happens is a long time
afterwards over 70 days right yeah so this would be in July and remember she went missing in early May and so they
bring in these dogs and they're going to go through Apartment 5A and uh amongst other places they they're
going to venture down to the beach and throughout the resort but it the troubles for the mccanns start in the
apartment yeah because what happens here is and you can watch these videotapes yourself on YouTube
but every now and then it seems like the dog handler makes like a little you know
arm motion and then the dog start barking about something uh and the dogs end up barking by the uh by by the in
the family room by by the couch right and uh then somewhere in the bedroom so well let me describe these two dogs
for you because not only not only do they have their their specific uh job dudes but they have different ways of
alerting so the way that I understand it Eddie remember he's the cadaver dog he is trained to only bark when he believes
he's detecting a cadaver you know human remains but he will he will get to a spot that he thinks that he's detecting
that and he's just gonna get bark but you know he's gonna rap rap rap rap rap rap rap now the other dog has a hound
dog sound has a different method okay she Kila when she believes that she's detected blood
um she will do what I what I believe is called a like a silent alert where they where she will put her nose or her face
on it in the direction of of what she believes that she's detected so we have two different behaviors by these dogs
now I will say I watched I watched the video footage from this uh and I was I was I was a little confused I didn't
notice the the Handler the strange movements by the Handler like you said there's there's people that shoots his
arm out there's people that are saying that the handler was directing the dogs to behave a certain way I saw that
outside of the apartment and we'll get to that but within the test conducted in the apartment I definitely saw that the
dogs seemed to be interested in the couch they were also claimed that they were interested in a stuffed animal of
Madeleine's that they were interested in some clothing this belief uh belonging to Kate
um and the thing here is though I didn't see any definitive behavior from the dogs that would lead me to believe that
I saw multiple times where they would walk past the the clothing they would walk past the stuffed animals they were
the dogs were other than the couch seemed to be behaving strangely and they were hitting on the couch and as you
said it was the the area behind the couch that they seem to be really honing in on right and but then they're also I
mean the cadaver dog went pretty nuts in the bedroom yeah um so look I mean we could go through
every little my new detail of that video watch it if you're interested basically
what the police because of these dog because of these dogs and how much they've been right the the police
basically the Portuguese police came out and was like you know what here's what's
happening what we believe is that there was an accident maybe from the couch to the window she fell broke her neck or
whatever and you guys covered this up because you know we have blood samples now uh we got DNA and we're going to
test to see if there was a a dead body in this uh in this room so that's what they came out and then
and that's that's the that's the direction they went into this investigation they stopped thinking
about an intruder and said look we got now we gotta um you know get these get Kate and Jerry
to be found guilty of this but the dog the cadaver dog also hit on the car now this was a rented car and we haven't
discussed the rented car yet but they placed several vehicles and I don't just mean like 20s yeah 20 30 vehicles in
this in this parking garage and they spaced them an even amount away from one another and the dogs checked
all of the the vehicles but they hit on the McCann's vehicle this is a rented vehicle they are they are detecting some
kind of smell or hitting on smells coming from the trunk area of this vehicle the strange thing though was
this was a vehicle that they rented 24 74 days after she went missing after she went missing so so their Theory then
became that well that's no big deal because the the McCain's hitter body thing when they came back to Portugal
they rented this vehicle and then they put her in uh to the vehicle and then they drove to Spain now they actually
did drive to Spain the first day to put flyers out for their missing for their missing child but they also
had a film crew with them that day so and it's videotaped so the one day that they drove to Spain that the police are
saying that they dumped her body uh there was camera crew in the back now that camera crew was friends of theirs
but again now you're going to say that these these two parents that have no you know no History of Violence no history
uh of any criminal activity that they accidentally killed their daughter or their daughter accidentally died they're
covering it up and they got nine other friends that are helping them cover up and now they got this camera crew
helping them cover it up it's kind of far-fetched let me throw this at you too Captain because the the
statement there is that they would have moved the body right and hid her in what
one would guess would have to be a better hiding spot right or or cremate it or or whatever some way of getting
rid of the body here's the weird thing though would you would you risk so at this point you've
technically successfully hid that body for over 20 days would you would you risk being detected
moving the body after you've successfully hit it for over 20 days unless you hit it in a
manner that would be incriminating to yourself it just makes no damn sense it's it's very questionable now and now
here here's what happened because you know gotta move this along a little bit right no so what happened then is the
Portuguese police then bring Caden for questioning right we're going to get back to the DNA results and all that
stuff of what the dogs found but they bring her in for questions she goes in about like four o'clock five
o'clock she's there till like 1am right they basically offer her a deal and the deal is
we think you know we lay it out we we think that it was accidental death we think you guys covered it up
we think that you were involved we think that your husband was involved maybe somebody else but we're just going to
pin it on YouTube but we understand that you have young twins we understand that your husband is
a physician he makes a bunch of money so what we'll do is we'll just charge you with it
and we'll give you we're going to give you a plea deal for two years he has been two years in jail now all
I'm saying is you're off for two years you probably feel guilty anyways uh and why would you do this why would
you cover up your your daughter's death I don't know but if you did well this is
a pretty easy way out right it's a very good deal for what you're being accused of it's amazing deal and she didn't take
it to me that's a that's a sign of her being innocent and that's a sign of the husband being
innocent now let's get back to these DNA results yes so this is a tricky item for
me Captain because what I'm seeing here is that they cannot rule out that the DNA and the blood they cannot rule out
that it's not madeleines but they cannot rule that it is hers right out of 19 markers which is very low normally DNA
tests have more markers than this for whatever reason this test only has 19 markers now I would actually argue that
there's a chance that the they have more markers and then so only 15 of the 19 markers
matched so that doesn't roll out that it couldn't be Jerry's blood or it could be
um Kate's blood either right because they're you know they make up the DNA of their daughter as well so but it also
sounds like they couldn't rule out maybe even a stranger in in this situation you
know it we we can not say that it's hers we cannot say that it's not hers right but but then there was arguments too
that they feel like some of the blood samples were of a male right and obviously she's a three-year-old girl so
these tests are so weird to me and I wish there was I looked for more stuff I I couldn't find well what I was
interested too and and I was hearing on some other show where they were talking about that there was definitive proof
that there was a dead body in uh Apartment 5A well definitive proof other than what
the dogs right that's that's my problem and that seems like a bold statement to make when
all when you're hearing this information second hand and all you have is a dog that and like I said the behavior of
those dogs I'm not a Handler I don't understand it but the behavior didn't make any sense to me I didn't see a dog
going directly up to an item and staying on that item right right yeah yeah so and who knows but
at the end of the day the only thing I could find that you know showed proof that there might have been a dead body
in in Apartment 5A would have been the dog's reactions but as far as like some test goes I haven't seen it so again
this DNA evidence doesn't prove to innocence or guilt correct all right so we've talked about the mccanns quite a
bit now we also didn't fully we didn't fully clear the potential situation of a stranger abduction right we talked about
that a lot but let's get back into that because as of recent there's been some more developments as far as that being a
likely possibility the first is being a man by the name of David Reed who is he well he's a convicted British sex
offender he moved to the area to where Madeline McCann went missing in 2004. this was after being released from
prison for sexually abusing young girls he was living a approximately 30 miles from where Madeline was staying with her
family this in 2007 the other thing that the authorities are looking at is a certain a certain behavior that was
going on so from 2004 to 2006 in we're going to have to extend this area out I'm going to say in the area but
we're talking about a large area here right okay 30 40 miles yeah so there there's 12 break-ins and these are all
break-ins to to people staying there on vacation during these break-ins whomever
is doing this they are assaulting sexually assaulting girls that are of the ages between 7 and 12. now I want to
be clear here David Reed is a suspect in at least one of those break-ins maybe a
suspect in all 12 break-ins we're discussing an area that is so large in fact the authorities it took them years
to realize that there's a potential that these are actually linked together right
now as far as this investigation goes yes that behavior would fall into somebody that might go into the
apartment and abduct Madeleine McCann that certainly follows that behavior people breaking into different vacation
homes right the problem here though Captain is in those 12 incidences that we have the authorities are stating that
they have over they have 38 Persons of Interest in those cases and he is he's just only one of them one of 38. one
also David Reed is deceased yeah he passed away in 2013 um and they believed that he moved there
in 2004 because at the time Portugal had no sex offender registry yes and also uh a couple other things is
Not only was he maybe involved in these uh break-ins in these sexual attacks but
there was also some other claims um once he started becoming uh known in the community and people started saying
hey you gotta look into this guy some girls came forward and made some claims now those charges were never pressed so
technically innocent until proven guilty but this guy was uh traveling like he would sing and play guitar and bands uh
he I I know of at least one confirmed where because of these attacks he was attacked himself why he was playing oh
really like they they went we know what this guy is he's a he's a pedophile uh he's committed crimes he has some
allegations against him he might be creating more crimes and they they pumbled in right in front of everybody
so um does he match any of the descriptions pseudo uh right but as we mentioned there there's a lot of people that would
match some of those descriptions and and I actually in my opinion um he's he's not as close as some of the
the you know he's not as close as Jerry McCann in my opinion very true um but yeah he vaguely matches the
description yeah so one of the other theories about this was not that it was an abduction but it was actually a
burglary that went bad yeah so this this has come about what just in the last year year and a half where Scotland Yard
they're saying that they are looking for possible links to burglaries and bogus charity collectors in the area at the
time they have released two of these e-fit images of Portuguese men that they would like to identify there were four
separate sightings of Charity collectors on the afternoon of May 3rd at prayer Deluge where she was taken from one may
man approached a property near the ocean Club at about 4 pm in that that afternoon police say there was also a
very large increase in the number of burglaries in the area between January and may back in 2007 and one possible
scenario like the captain pointed out was that Madeleine not assuming that nobody would be in this apartment that
it was going to be broken into they were going to steal valuables and that Madeleine had Disturbed a burglar right
but you're going in to grab a TV and oops I got a kid oh come on give me a break this is the dumbest idea that I've
this is dumber than most of my ideas I do want to stay on this for uh for a minute you know so these collectors
these charity quote unquote charity collectors that they're looking for how did this come about why did they
stand out so much well these were people that were walking around and collecting
money for different organizations but one one thing that they were collecting for was orphanages and how did they know
that these are fake charity collectors because when they would get engaged in conversation with these people that
they're trying to get money from they would say oh I'm collecting for this orphanage in this city well the police
are like that's your report to me are you sure that's what he said because there's no orphanage in that city right
so they learned that these are these are con artists and they believe they don't
know they believe that there's a link between these fake charity guys and the increase in in the burglaries in the
area at the time yeah because the idea would be well let's go in with the charity and even if we don't get any
money that we get information if we get get some information we can go back yeah
when we say that there is an increase in burglaries in the area we mean like within the results in the resort within
blocks of the resort I think there was three within area right there was three within 17 days of her going missing
correct and there and there was a break in like I think seven days before you know they're in 5A right above them so
but again the resorts don't they they don't want to tell you this and then the resort doesn't want to tell you oh by
the way we were telling authorities hey we need to stop this because this is bad
for business and this is going to get out so I guarantee you they didn't tell the McCain's hey you might want to make
sure everything's locked you know like that's no excuse you shouldn't leave your kids alone like that but if you
would have heard about these things maybe you would be a little more on high alert but they don't want to alert you
about it because it's bad for business and then the the cops don't want to bring this up because it's bad for
business so you got these cops pointing the finger at the parents of a girl that
went missing when they they know the the that there's been more break-ins in that
area in the last 17 days that brings up the question of motive Captain right because we're talking about I'm with you
as far as we're talking about Burger of course you're here with me I'm stuck with you we're in the garage we're
talking about a burglary gone bad so I break into a place I'm looking for cash and jewelry this is something that I've
done multiple times right because of course I do it all the time every weekend instead new mics I get inside
and I'm startled by the presence of a little girl who might even be too young to identify me seeing that she does not
know who I am and you don't know if she knows karate or anything so I'm going to
I'm going to abduct that girl as a you know what maybe this kid is more valuable than what I came in here
looking for or maybe I'm going to abduct her because she saw me I think this is a jump this is a bit of
a a this doesn't it feel like they're reaching here Captain where they're like you know what there's we're we're see we
see this uptick in burglaries and maybe it's no coincidence that this happened at the same time that a small girl was
stolen from what's weird is this is the theory that's coming from the Scotland Yard police so it has nothing to do with
the Portuguese please if it had something to do with the Portuguese police I would say well this makes sense
because they don't want you to fear for abduction they don't want to fear for sex trafficking they want you to fear
just a break-in it's a breaking gone bad but but it's weird that it comes from from the Scotland Yard please
I think this is stupid the the motive it's purely it's it's sexual or to sell into sex trafficking it's ridiculous so
that's the most so without even discussing it you want to dismiss the what what motive the mccanns might have
right so we we have we you're stating that the motivation would be sexual or some form of abduction motivation the
McCann's it seems like their situation would be a bit of a leap for a little bit of a
stretch and a reach as well for to to make a motive out of their their daughter accidentally died yeah they're
Physicians if if they walked in and their daughter had an accident they're going to call an ambulance they're going
to call somebody for help they're doctors they took an oath I have a lot of nurse friends they took an oath they
take that serious but Captain they they were sedating their daughter and she died possibly of an overdose why why
wouldn't they cover that up again it's an easy within seconds you call your ambulance
what happened she got into this medicine yeah looks like candy she ate it we've had this problem before yeah or uh I
accidentally gave her a dose and then my wife did we made a mistake we've caught
her fumbling with the pills before you know it's it's easily explainable so where does that leave us are you
stating do you believe the mccanns are are innocent and have been victims of uh of some bad luck here or or do you think
who do you think is right it's not like it was their only daughter and that they're like hey you know what if we can
get rid of her we'll just we can go party with Casey Anthony no no that's not you know it's ridiculous they had
twins it took them a long time to have Madeline like they didn't even know if they're going to be able to have kids it
was a you know they thought it was like the miracle child these these these people were thrown under the bus
right when people didn't do their job and didn't do the investigation and I think still I still think there is
motive from um the resort from the community uh you know there's there's even signs that are
painted like on the stop signs they'll say stop McCain or stop Madeleine circus because they don't want this publicity
well it's like you know if you're going to have people going and taking vacations to your place then uh your
police need to do a better job you need to do about your job the parents needed to do a better job
um you know it's a very Mis it's misfortunate but uh I think they got thrown under the bus I cannot decide to
be honest with you Captain I know people don't like that when somebody sits there
on a fence and they don't pick a side here's here's the fence I'm sitting on I have the McCann's on one side I hope
it's a sharp and stranger abduction on the other and I feel like I know this is an easy out but I feel like I I don't
have enough information to go either way with it I do see some what I think is suspicious behavior on the part of the
mccanns right but I also see things that point towards they didn't do it the therein lies the problem the window for
me is key if that window was open if we found somebody else's fingerprints on that window I would say I would never
look at the mccanns again um so the window for me is key one thing here and I'm going to throw this little
Theory out there and it's slightly different than than some some other ones that we've already presented but the
lead investigator he's gone on to write a book he's gone on to do a documentary um if you want to dive into those I go
for it I recommend it he's was very close to the case the thing here is though he was you have to read the
subtitles yeah he was also removed from the investigation and my understanding of why he was removed was because there
we have Scotland Yard we have the British government they were inquiring about one of the employees at the resort
and he either failed to respond to their inquiries or he failed to investigate this individual now the thing the reason
why I like this theory is that the employee like the remember I said for me the window is key and when I first saw that
window somebody that has a knowledge of the way buildings work and knowledge of security that window appeared to me that
I would have to do great amount of damage to it to get the shutter open however an employee there might know
that that's not the case that you could you could Jimmy that shutter open and most of the time these windows are
unlocked and I'm going to break in there and I'm going to take something that I want
um so I I throw that out there to everyone um I don't and at the time he didn't have to be a registered sex offender so
you could get that job correct so I that's one thing that I would love to know more about unfortunately I think
that you know is this case solvable I think with the evidence that we have and the information that we currently have
no I don't think it's currently solvable what what will help solve this is if somebody comes forward with information
that we don't have or unfortunately if they find Madeline her remains if they find her remains
there's a possibility she could be alive out there somewhere I think that the way
that they find her and where they find her could point us to who is ultimately responsible and a couple things you know
this this case is huge it's a whale I mean this could have really been like four parts uh we could probably broke it
down a little more clearly it's just so much the timeline if if Nick went through the timeline of 10 years there
would have been like it's just so much so we kind of wanted to put you know look at it more on the idea of here's
something uh that points to maybe they're innocent or maybe they're guilty so but there's definitely a lot more to
dive into this case there's also a bunch of sightings we haven't talked about those basically my take on any sightings
of her being alive all the pictures that I have seen and this is just my gut feeling none of them
are her except for one that I I have a hard time you know my theory is more that somebody knew that she was there
breaking them in not for sex trafficking but for their own um sexual desires or whatever and then
when the media storm got too big he had to get rid of the body he had to get rid
of the girl that's my gut feeling but when I see this surveillance picture of her and like convenience store
to me my gut is telling me it is her so if that's true then where is she and who
has her and just before this summer they were making announcements to everybody that was traveling anywhere overseas to
take a picture of Madeline with you and look around and look for her it's ten years later and they they're still
there's still some hope out there yeah and there's other little things that we didn't talk about like you know well the
mccains when they talked in press conferences they seemed cold or just some of that stuff I mean
I think those are little things that that that's not going to help you solve a case you know maybe it it puts a
little sand on the mountain but the the you really need to get to the meat and the potatoes well this was certainly a
heavily requested case and I want to thank everybody for requesting it what actually was our number one requested
show in the last couple months really so I I don't know that's kind of weird how
the world works like I don't know if it's like we're all connected with this weird energy but man it's like every
other day I'd get one Madeline McCain I'm like where's this coming from this is a 10 year old case how about a little
recommended reading here Captain you know about a week or two ago I watched a great movie I watched a movie called
split uh by M Night Shyamalan uh it's you know I'm not going to tell you too much about it because you know we don't
want to be the the podcast that gives away movies yeah it's only like a year old yeah but I watched it a couple weeks
ago and it was brilliant but it reminded me of a story that a True Crime Story that I'd read years ago and I found out
that M Night actually used quite a bit of this book for his research when he was writing the movie Split So today
we're going to recommend the minds of Billy Milligan by Daniel Keys now this is about a case that took place in
Columbus Ohio way back in the day and Billy Milligan he was a man tormented by 24 distinct personalities battling for
Supremacy over his body a battle that culmated when he woke up in jail arrested for the kidnap and rape of
three women in a landmark trial Billy was acquitted of his Crimes by reason of insanity this is one of the most
interesting cases out there I recommend picking up the minds of Billy Mulligan by Daniel keys and you can do that by
going to truecrimegarage.com and click on our recommended page if you'd like to follow us on social media do so
Instagram Snapchat Facebook all that stuff at True Crime garage we hope everybody had a good good Fourth of July
if you're on vacation this week be good have a great vacation until next week be
good be kind and don't live [Music] [Applause]

Madeleine McCann /// Part 2 /// 121

Part 2 of 2

TrueCrimeGarage.com

Madeleine McCann is the most famous missing person in the world. In 2007 you couldn't turn on a TV or computer without seeing her name and face. Sadly she went missing just days before her 4th birthday. Now it's been over 10 years and we are still looking for her. The details of the night she disappeared are still sketchy at best. What really happened that evening? Was Madeleine abducted or is this whole thing a bizarre coverup? Tonight over drinks we discuss the possibilities.Beer of the Week - Flannel Mouth by Blake's Hard Cider Co.Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

Beer Fund: https://truecrimegarage.com/home

Brief Summary

The episode discusses the Madeleine McCann case, focusing on investigation flaws, family behavior, and theories of abduction versus negligence.

Key points

The Madeleine McCann Case. The hosts dive into the investigation surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Parental Neglect Debate. The hosts discuss the McCann's decision to leave their children unattended.
Conflicting Stories. There are inconsistencies in Jerry McCann's account of checking on the children.
Kate's Urgent Claim. After checking the apartment, Kate runs to report that Madeline has been abducted.
The Role of Cadaver Dogs. Cadaver dogs Eddie and Kila play a crucial role in the investigation, detecting human remains and blood.
Questioning Kate McCann. Kate McCann is brought in for questioning, facing accusations of covering up her daughter's death.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

What do you think about that just jumping off the page there?

Discussion about the investigation

6:09WatchDec 5, 2022

Tension

55/ 100Some tension

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