The Fifth Nail /// Part 1 /// 118 | Forensic Files

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that's number
two in your programs and in our batting order but of course number one in your hearts he is the captain also known as
the second best in the garage thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen
it's good to see you [Music] I'm excited about this beer here Captain look at me I'm I'm chair dancing yeah
that's kind of embarrassing you know most of the time we pick a beer because it's from the area of the story that
we're covering other times we pick a beer because you know maybe the name is clever maybe there's a clever play on
words in there and then sometimes as is the case today we select a beer that frankly we just really want to drink it
so today we are excited to be trying we don't need no stinking Coast by the hard-working people at Sixth Sense
Brewing Company in the Cozy town of Jackson Ohio Garage grade four out of five bottle caps we don't need no
stinking Coast is a super hazy double IPA brewed in that East Coast style and it's got a low hop High Citrus thing
going on and this delicious beer from The Sixth Sense Brewing Company was brought to us by these hard-working
Citizens First up we have to thank Andrew and Janice from well I'm guessing from Jackson County Ohio because they
are the ones that sent us the Sixth Sense beer so a big thank you to Andrew and Janice
next we have to thank all the beautiful ladies of Rachel's Cakes that's Melissa Jody Tina and of course Rachel thank you
ladies we like your cakes next we have Tiffany and Guam she's sending us a thank you because she was binge
listening to True Crime garage during her 20 hours of travel from Guam to Thailand well he could have came and
visited us but I guess you don't like us that much in a big we like a jib to Kathy in
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the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
foreign [Music] garage and this is the case of the fifth nail [Music] we couldn't tell you this story without
first telling you about a website the fifth Nail website for the fifthnail.blogspot.com
the site is an online web log that feels and reads much like a personal Journal a
personal journal from the blog's Creator the name the fifth nail comes from According to the site's Creator an old
myth a myth about the crucifixion of Christ States gypsies crafted five nails for
the crucifixion of Jesus Christ but only four were used by the Romans the fifth nail was intended to pierce the heart of
Christ but the gypsies hid the nail from the Romans depending on which story you follow from
the blog the gypsies were either rewarded or punished for having done this rewarded for trying to protect Christ
and having gone against the Romans were punished for causing the already very painful death to last longer than
necessary Other Stories on the blog would say the fit nail is a sacred artifact A Relic that holds great power
but once you get past the crafty name within the journal entries the writer has made it obvious this is a one-person
protest site one person voicing their opinions against the registration laws of sex offenders
stating that punishments for having committed crimes only lead to more crimes the fifth nail blog was created in
January of 2004. on this Blog the writer spoke of past crimes they had committed
about their daily life and about wanting to change the penal system and also wanting to have a closer
relationship with God in one of the first posts the writer states this site can be a voice for
repressed criminals the site nor the Blogger condones criminal Acts or behavior but rather
this is a reminder that the criminal too just like the rest of us is a human being
and other posts the author says the Blogger is not a pedophile and if you review the post regarding past crimes
committed it is obvious they believe these were simply crimes committed by a confused young person
who was acting out because of abuse they had suffered this tone rings throughout other posts
suggesting simply that criminals are victims too furthermore it is the belief of the
fifth nail that the cure for Crime criminals and criminal activity is love much like Christ taught people to love
their enemies the Blogger also States they knew all about abuse from every angle from the
perspective of not only the abuser but the victim as well and they were recommending lighter and
less strict punishments for offenders saying offenders should be offered counseling and treatment programs rather
than jail time in April of 2005 the readers of the fifth nail would notice an obvious
change into the tone and mindset of the author by now the author was clearly depressed
and most likely suicidal the blog post making reference to what the author calls the demons
saying things like the demons are stronger than ever I am alone and only God can save me
I might be the only one who can understand the nature of the Demons I'm very afraid because if the demons
win a lot of people are going to get hurt very badly hurt I continue to pray that God will help me
please pray for me because I don't know if the right choice is even an option now
on Wednesday May 11th there was a post submitted titled the demons have taken over
and it stated it's too late too late for God to take care of the Demons because the demons have locked up
the happy person in the same dungeon where the demons had once been locked up and now with the happy person locked up
the demons are loose and now I am very very afraid the demons have caused me to question my
faith to God and I am Losing My Religion and that is how they got the key and got
out of the dungeon and locked me up not only am I afraid but I am also very very angry
angry with Society I'd like to kill myself but I don't know if I can I would like to hurt society as much as
possible and then die as for the happy person I once was well the happy person was just a dream
and as it turns out the happy person never really existed at all turns out the demons were alive and well
long before the dream of the happy person two days later on Friday the 13th the author made the last blog post
it was a lengthy post but the gist of it the author wrote is taking people with me right or wrong
and does it really matter a million years from now will there even be people will any of this matter
I have a disease I have contracted from society I hope I will be able to finish my
online journals before dying which I hope will be soon or maybe with some help I could turn
myself in that might still be a possibility but the problem with that is the demons are in control
and not the happy person [Music] just two days after the final blog post on the fifthnail.com website on May 15
2005 our story takes us to a place called cordeline Idaho for those of you not familiar that's about 30 miles east
of Seattle and the population back then would have been roughly about 40 000 people well our story will take place
just outside of there near Lake Cordy Lane Robert Hollingsworth hired a neighbor
boy to mow his grass he hired 13 year old Slade groney Slade was your typical American young teenage boy his family
did not have much money so he was helping out doing some work for his neighbor Mr Hollingsworth you know to
earn some walking around money the arrangement the two had made was that Robert Hollingsworth would get the
exact amount of money that they had agreed on and paid the boy the following day
so on May 15th when the work was done Slade groney returned to his home across the street where he lived with his
mother and his mother's long-term boyfriend now we said that Slade had finished the
work for the day over at the Hollingsworth property and returned home well the next day on May 16th in the
evening Robert Hollingsworth goes over to the neighbor's house to pay the boy for his hard work
on his walk over he can see the family is likely home as the two vehicles that they own were parked in the driveway in
their normal spots and as he gets closer he notices that both the vehicles have several of the
doors sitting open he walks past the vehicles ducking down to look inside and he continues on walking towards the
front door the car doors are open but both in both cars but nothing seems to be out of the ordinary as Hollingsworth
approaches the front door he's going to notice some blood on the wall yeah he's going to see what what appears to be
quite a bit of blood as he takes another step he can see that there's there's blood on the actual door and on the
porch steps as well so we have it on the walls the door and the steps well this frightens Hollingsworth and and of
course he runs back to his house and he goes for the phone he calls 9-1-1 and he
reports that when he went to his neighbor's house uh he thinks that he saw a lot of blood on the front porch in
the door you know so please send the police in an ambulance as quickly as possible
members of the sheriff's department arrive at the scene they knock on the doors and they receive no answer but of
course the blood on the door in the front porch will give the officers probable cause to enter the home
they quickly find a side door to the home unlocked and they enter according to the officers the first thing they
notice is that there's blood everywhere they see two bodies lying dead in an area between the kitchen and the living
room around each body there is a large pool of blood both victims had been bound
with duct tape and zip ties both had been hit many times in the head and face one of the victims appeared to have been
shot in the head possibly at close range this was the body of 13 year old Slade he was face down in a puddle of blood
there was quite a good amount of duct tape wrapped around his head and around his wrist as well and laying next to
Slade will be his mother in her own pool of blood this is Brenda groney she too is face down in Blood and it appeared
that the blood had been coming from her head her wrists were bound behind her back and her feet bound with zip ties in
the living room there was another obvious sign of violent death and this is similar to what the sheriffs had just
seen a man later identified as Mark McKenzie lay in blood wristbound with duct tape and feet with zip ties this
would be the long-term boyfriend correct he's actually the owner of the home officers surmise that he too had been
killed by either a gunshot or blunt force trauma to the Head Robert Hollingsworth also tells the sheriffs
that less than 24 hours before the bodies were discovered that he had called the sheriff's department to
report a suspicious truck he found on his property the crime scene was so bloody and
horrific that many of the deputies nearly got sick after a thorough search of the home
deputies noted that they found a lot of blood now this was all over the inside of the home and this included Footprints
hand prints blood smears there was spatter on the walls and floor as well as droplets on the floor so the police
find three victims we have two adults and we have one teenage boy but they don't find any other victims on the
property or in the home now this is late Monday night and by the time they go through the crime scene now we're close
to early Tuesday right and the sheriff's department they start notifying family members regarding the murders of their
loved ones one family member uh one family member of Brenda's is notified that three murder victims were found in
the home and the the lady she then tells them well you must be mistaken there should be five victims there not three
okay so the the sheriff's department immediately are like what's going on why would this this person that we're
notifying tell us tell us that we should be seeing five victims here uh so when pressed again she says the same thing
you know there should be five victims here not three this is not the last the sheriff's department would hear of this
and after confirming the suspicion the sheriff's department realizes that they have a whole new set of problems on
their hands they not only have three murdered victims a killer or killers on the loose but now they have two missing
children to look for as well yeah we have nine-year-old Dylan and we have eight-year-old Shasta yeah because see
at the time of the crime you know that particular night there were five people in that house there's Mark McKenzie he's
37 years old he's the long-term boyfriend and the owner of the home as we had stated there's Brenda groney uh
the mother uh she's she's the mother of of 5 kids but three of her kids lived there so we have 13 year old Slade who
we had mentioned who was found dead in the home but we also have nine-year-old Dylan that the captain captain mentioned
as well as the little sister Shasta who's eight Oh Captain so uh Brenda had two older kids that did not live at the
house and her ex-husband who was very active in his children's lives had his own place and saw the children on a
regular basis so now the sheriff's department law enforcement are wondering where is Dylan and where is Shasta
now of course there was a thorough search conducted at both the grony property and then at the Hollingsworth
property as well and at the discovery of the murders they conducted these searches but again as
once the suspicion was confirmed that we have missing children well they're going
to search again so we've just combined those two searches and listed what the sheriff's department noted as of
importance uh together we already talked about all the blood at the groaning McKenzie house
and we talked about Mark and Brenda being bound with duct tape and zip ties uh tape on the wrist and zip ties
binding the feet Slade was only bound with duct tape around his wrist and some on his head as well but no zip ties on
his ankles there was a second structure on the property on the Mackenzie groaning
property this is is like a large shed um and I should point out before we get too far into this that these these
properties that we're discussing they're very they're large properties you know we're talking about uh large front yards
large backyards so so about maybe a acre and a half two acres yeah yeah they're they're of substantial size
so in this structure they find they find of additional Vehicles now these were family vehicles okay so this is more
like a pole barn or something correct correct and not a little shed a big a big uh pole barn like you said they find
some extra vehicles on the groaning property as well one including a camper I believe all of these vehicles end up
belonging to the grony or McKenzie family now on Mr Hollingsworth property they found a 1988 silver Ford pickup
truck with Idaho plates now this is registered to Lisa and Daniel Miller this is the vehicle this is the
quote-unquote abandoned truck that Mr Hollingsworth had reported as suspicious earlier to the Sheriff's Department okay
now he says that he first saw it on the on the McKenzie groaning property around
8 P.M on Sunday May 15th he says that he then saw it again the next day this would be very early about 6 30 in the
morning but this time the the truck was on his property so before these events had before these
events he had never seen this truck before uh the truck is still on his property at the time of the search in
the bed of the truck the sheriff's department they find a roll of duct tape and they also find a ball of wadded up
duct tape as well this is duct tape obvious obviously matching tape that was used at the murder scene yeah winner
winner chicken dinner yeah so the truck is their first major lead law enforcement stated quote nothing
appeared to be stolen from the crime scene except for the kids there was an amber alert that was issued for The
Disappearance of nine-year-old Dylan groeny and his little sister eight-year-old Shasta groney search
parties were sent out to search the wooded areas surrounding the family's homes and then extending out from there
they conducted searches with both tracking and cadaver dogs both on foot and on Horseback because one would hope
that maybe why these attacks happen on three individuals that maybe they somehow got
away and uh or possibly that they were killed and their bodies were moved somewhere
and as I like to say you're exactly right captain that the the first of what you said was exactly their suspicion
they they were hopeful and thought yeah yeah maybe these kids got away and they're hiding in the woods somewhere
and they're just afraid to come out because they're they're terrified of what they had seen or heard yeah so what
the sheriff's department is going to do is they're going to divide into two teams one is going to take on the triple
homicide and the other team is going to be searching for the two missing children yes and on Tuesday May 17th the
sheriff's department they announced that after interviewing friends and family of
the victims uh that they have a person of interest a person of interest has emerged from this group all right and
this is Robert Roy lutner uh he's age 33 he's a large guy he's about six foot three 230 240 pounds right uh he's
nicknamed concrete Bob he's also a friend of the family he is someone in that visited the home a couple of times
just days before the murders and it's believed that he even visited the home on Sunday evening maybe just hours
before the slangs were committed so a friend of the longtime boyfriend um yeah I got the vibe that it was a
friend of both of them um and but this is concrete Bob right right so concrete Bob is the number one
suspect at this time and how he emerges as a suspect is is like this okay so remember we said that Brenda groney had
two older children that did not live at the home yeah well one of these children
this is Jesse groney um he tells the sheriff's department that concrete Bob owed his mother and
his mother's boyfriend about two thousand dollars okay Jesse also explained that even though concrete Bob
owed the family money there did not seem to be any bad blood regarding this loan
or any bad blood between the family and concrete Bob about there's that psychological thing that if you if you'd
lend somebody money they instantly start resenting you even though you'd lent them money well the thing here is you
know he he states that even though the family didn't have much money at all he didn't see he didn't see his mother and
her boyfriend pressuring concrete Bob to repay this money at any time soon right
but when the sheriff's department is talking to other family members about concrete Bob they're they're stayed in
look um he you know maybe has a little bit of a criminal has but he's he's not somebody that we would suspect of being
able to do this yes what was his criminal past uh he had some drug possession charges he also had domestic
battery uh this was for fighting with a girlfriend outside of a bar I guess this
domestic battery charge ended up being reduced to just disturbing the peace he also had two counts of fraud on his
record as well now here's the suspicious thing though Captain concrete Bob took a
trip to Boise the day after the bodies were found he drove a truck that matched the truck found on the Hollingsworth
property but we we know that that was registered to some other people so there's a little confusion there but
still interest the sheriff's department they are looking for this concrete Bob who as we said conveniently took a trip
the day after the murders well they don't have to look very long or very hard because
about a day after they announced that he was a person of interest concrete Bob comes forward and he talks with the
sheriff's department they interview him for 16 hours wow they gave him a polygraph test and as what was reported
was that concrete Bob passed the polygraph test with flying colors mainly gray though so after all of this
concrete Bob was cleared and he's no longer a suspect the thing here is though Captain we have the autopsies to
discuss now remember when the bodies were found we have the situation where it was believed that the victims could
have either been shot in the head or they were killed by blunt force trauma to the Head the autopsies revealed that
it was not gunshots but it was in fact blunt force trauma to the head and did they have the weapon
um they they had their suspicions but they were not going to announce that to the public what they found regarding the
injuries were brain contusion and skull fractures the sheriff's department as we
said was not announcing the weapon they believed used in the attack however a local paper was saying that a claw
hammer was used on the victims well it's actually surprising that the sheriff's department talked to concrete Bob for as
long as they did and they didn't you know give him every piece of the you know evidence of what happened and get
him to falsely confess oh like we've seen very recently on this show do you know if the sheriff's department has a
time of death well what they find out is that this is based off of the body temperatures it was determined that the
three had died either in the late Sunday evening hours or early Monday morning hours so that doesn't doesn't tell us
much we both could have guessed that well they weren't found until Monday evening so it only it only really closes
the window a little bit but it still leaves us a decent sized window to work with there
now when they when they conduct the toxicology reports uh the two on the on the adults revealed the presence of THC
and methamphetamine in both Brenda and Mark all right so they're smoking some pot yeah they're they're doing a little
bit of recreational drugs it it looks like um and there is there is no definitive
proof wait so is meth considered recreational uh I I guess all drugs might be considered recreational I've
seen that Recreation but regardless the toxicology report reveals the presence of both THC and methamphetamine now even
though there's no definitive proof of this the sheriff's department was going to go with the theory that because five
victims were controlled and at least three of them were bound there there was a strong possibility that they were
looking for more than one perpetrator yeah also they could not find any sign of forced entry so this of course was
suggesting a strong possibility that the victims knew the perpetrators the the other strange thing here is that the
Mackenzie and groanie household well it had plenty of firearms in the home you know hunting is very is very popular in
that area and that's something that some of the family members participated in right uh that not only were there
Firearms scattered kind of throughout in different parts of the home several of these were loaded and they you know
stashed loaded throughout the home found by the sheriff's department but none of
them were found near where the victims lay um so it didn't appear that any of the
victims had tried to go for these weapons in any form of defense well they're high on meth one thing that the
sheriff's department was wondering about was maybe The Killers watched the house
and may have been able to pull off some kind of surprise attack in the middle of
the night this would also be evidence why these guns were not used for defense but of course the sheriff's department
is working with the expectation that the two missing children Dylan and Shasta are still alive I'll get right back to
the case of the fifth nail right after this quick beer break [Music] [Music] all right we're back cheers everybody
cheers so we were going through some of the Sheriff's Department's thoughts and feelings early on in this investigation
some things that they had noticed at the crime scene what that was leading them to believe and Theory rise regarding the
the perpetrators that they were looking for now I do want to point out here that
the sheriff's department made sure to tell the media and the community that this home this home was not a drug house
the sheriff's department found no evidence to suggest that the house was used to manufacture store or sell drugs
and actually I don't believe that they found any actual drugs in the house at all so everything here is is simply just
pointing to the drugs being found in the in the system of the adults of Brenda and Mark right so the show sheriff's
department at this point is just basically stating that recreational drug use has nothing to do with the actual
crimes or the possible abductions of the two um children yeah that's that's what the
evidence is pointing towards now shortly into this investigation uh we had already discussed one lead that went
that went nowhere you know they're able to clear concrete Bob but the sheriff's department is going to catch a break uh
this is when a white van was spotted uh this white fan was from Washington had Washington plates on it and was reported
to the sheriff's department now the vehicle was spotted about 70 miles north of Coeur d'Alene this would be near the
Montana and Canada borders at a store that caters for hunters and outdoor enthusiasts the vehicle was
reported because a man was at the store with two children that got out of the vehicle
they didn't buy anything they didn't actually even shop at all the Man simply asked for directions he asked for
directions to a place called Libby Montana so the the police are very interested in
this because we have this man here and he's got two children that are of the same age as Shasta and Dylan in this
vehicle heading out of the state well they search and search and search for this vehicle
and it doesn't turn up they're they're not able to locate the van that's with the Washington plates one it could be
anybody I mean there's a lot of people traveling with two kids but those kids are two kids of their own yeah and the
thing is here Captain we would have a lot of similar sightings to this uh over the course of some time because you know
the sheriff's department really was doing everything they could to try to find these these two children there were
there were Billboards going up with both of their pictures very you know big beautiful pictures of the two kids on
there so that everybody could see their faces you could get a sense of their height and their weight know where
they're missing from and and there were people looking for these kids all over the area so of course we're going to
have some different quote-unquote sightings from time to time right and the sheriff's department has already
looked into a close friend the concrete Bob but also we just assumed that they'd
have to look into family members especially because there are three murders and two abductions
and the the children's father uh this is Stephen grooney of course he came under
suspicion um and and I say of course just because you know we know that that's a typical
normal part of any investigative process when you're investigating the murder and
deaths of family members wow you're going to be questioned you guys should be questioned yeah you got to look at
the ex-husband or if there's an ex-wife or somebody anybody inside that inner circle
um but the but furthermore he became Under Suspicion a little bit more than normal because of of some of the
statements that he had made uh to the public into the media now on several occasions the father Stephen groney now
he he was pleing to the killers of the family and to the abductors of the two children on these you know press
conferences and interviews any chance that he got he was he was speaking directly to the abductors
and the one thing that the sheriff's department they found strange was that Stephen groney kept saying he said this
multiple times the that the abductor should drop the children off at a location of his choosing and anonymously
phone in where he had dropped them off and that that they should please do not kill these kids because they had nothing
to do with this and he would often say that the kids had nothing to do with this and that's the statement that that
caused the sheriff's department to to have some uneasy feelings about Stephen Groening because their their whole thing
was they could not they could not establish or determine a motive for the crime that took place
right and now we have somebody on the inner circle saying that the children have nothing to do with this right
almost like assuming he knows what the motive was and also I think it's very suspicious on the idea of hey just uh
pick a place drop them off and call in Anonymous it's almost like he's setting up a scenario for him to be able to drop
off the kids somewhere yeah yeah you're right or or that someone that he knows of could just drop them somewhere and
not not be seen not be caught especially if the kids aren't going to reveal who dropped them off or who's been holding
them um yeah then the issue becomes what's his Alibi for Sunday and Monday and the
other thing too is I think he's pretty upfront and in the public eye quite a bit during this this investigation it's
not like he's he's hiding behind closed doors and he's phoning these things in he's he's at the Forefront of this well
and the other thing too is yeah maybe you see a motive or or anger or revenge or something against the ex-wife with
the new boyfriend but him killing his own teenage boy you know I don't doesn't seem it doesn't seem extremely
likely right uh the other thing here though Captain is you know during questioning and things like that with
the father of the children of Stephen grooney now the the other thing they were concerned about was that they
stated that he had failed parts of his polygraph test not they weren't saying he failed the polygraph test they were
saying it appears he was deceptive at portions of this test but of course they would not go on to to inform us as to
what these portions of the test were that that they believed him right but that could be nerves or anything I I'd
really be interested in taking one myself just to see what kind of scenario that is and and the effects of that
mm-hmm well and the thing too here is Captain you know a lot of that's based off of you know your your what's going
on with you internally at the time right so you've you have this horrible situation where your ex-wife has been
killed and your son has been killed and now you have a daughter and son who are missing well you have a lot you got a
lot of emotions in you at this probably a lot of anxiety running through you and
anger sadness all kinds of stuff and look I mean I think the important thing is you know especially somebody that had
kids with this with the lady that was murdered you know it's not just his ex-wife it's the mother of his children
so and now you have two missing children yourself and I think that's why you know
this is this is one reason why these tests aren't something that they use in the court of law because there there is
errors and on top of that a lot of the let's say determining whether somebody's deceptive or not is coming from an
expert's opinion right where you might be able to show this to another quote-unquote expert and they say I'm
not seeing any signs of deception here yeah but I think it's a good barometer you know I still think it's something
that they could use during the investigation to give the the police some kind of lead yes I think I think it
can be helpful when conducted by experienced uh investigators when you have people that that have conducted
these tests time and time again and have experience as far as many years investigating these crimes because I'm a
big believer in that old gut feeling and I think that that comes with experience
the thing here is Captain the the national Center for missing and exploited children got involved we
talked about the Billboards that were set up um and and you know this is one of our
favorite organizations uh they set up my only my only issue is we donated money and now we get like an email every day
to asking for more money well we've donated a few times but uh yeah yeah you're right there they remind us that
uh hey we're still here hey yeah we know we talk about you every other week on the show
um anyway the uh they sent out notifications Nationwide regarding the two missing children uh and they
distributed over 100 000 Flyers um throughout the Western American states now uh this this was interesting
the way that they did this they were contacting businesses and so if you had a gas station or a restaurant or
something like that they would they would send out a fax or an email to these different businesses and they
would also send out flyers wherever they could so they're trying to get the the pictures of these children in front of
people that might you know if someone stops for gas if someone goes into a store to shop or to to buy food you know
whoever took these kids you would assume is somewhat on the run if the kids are still alive and the sheriff's department
is working with the expectation that the kids may still be on still be alive yeah
I think it's I I think it'd be silly to just assume they're on the run I mean we've seen a lot of times where somebody
is abducted and then they're taken back to the person's Lair or whatever so that
that's a big possibility they need to be looking into as well so if somebody refers to their home as their Lair we
should just assume they're guilty of horrible things well just well don't don't go over there for a barbecue is
what I'm saying uh the the crime and the missing children were also featured on America's Most Wanted they featured the
story twice and I believe that they ran it on two Saturdays in a row these would
be the two Saturdays following the when the crime actually took place so nationally everybody is looking for
these kids and meanwhile the investigators are still analyzing evidence that they've collected from the
crime scene but on a sad note they're also they're searching the local landfills because they're wondering if
maybe the kids were dumped somewhere right um you know these these are all things
that are necessary to do but one terrible thing that was really working against those fighting for a good
outcome well there was a a bit of a delay in getting the Amber Alert out for these
two children so once that Amber Alert goes out uh it would hit the emergency broadcast system uh the state Lottery
Commission all the news and media Outlets as well as the notification boards along the highways in Idaho parts
of Montana Washington and Oregon now part of the delay was because at first they didn't even know that the kids were
missing you know they didn't know that they had kids involved in this crime until notifying the family about the
three murders seems like something that you should be able to figure out within you know a half an hour well then there
was further delay because of a bunch of bureaucratic [ __ ] basically so so the the family is killed and the two the
kids were taken either on late on May the 15th or early in the morning on May the 16th according to the body
temperatures right um so the bodies are not discovered until late on the 16th they became aware
of the missing children early on the 17th and the Amber Alert does not go out into the morning of the 18th
so that's just that's ridiculous yeah so by the time the Amber Alert goes out we
have about 48 to 60 hours that have passed based on depending how you you shake it or depending on the actual time
of yeah there's a nine and a eight year old that their lives are depending on this stuff you don't mess it up yeah and
the the really aggravating thing here is I I mentioned bureaucratic [ __ ] well a lot of that was Jesus dropping the
s-bombs all over the place a lot of that was that at the time there there were people involved that said that they
didn't know that this particular crime or these two missing kids actually fit the criteria for an amber alert yeah it
should be this simple there's children missing issue an amber alert that's it thank you you know that's it eight and
nine year old yes and the thing here that we got to keep in mind too that we have we have a additional problems in
this crime right because we we all know how this we know how unlikely a good outcome is in a child slash stranger
abduction especially after 48 Hours has expired well and look we've covered how many cases now you know I don't know
I realized I didn't give a number there when you asked me well yeah I don't know
either because think about all the cases that we haven't released because we never recorded them because we're just
sitting around the garage that doesn't count drunk um we should have recorded all that
stuff because then then when we needed a week off but the thing here now to me looking at this case as it's developing
okay at first you start thinking yeah maybe this Revenge Type killing you know maybe it's the ex-husband maybe it's a
friend that they you know lent money to where's the motive but now that you have
an eight and nine year old missing to me the motive becomes more Sinister it becomes
um the motive starts leaning itself towards this idea that I had to kill the I had to kill the the parents and the
teenager because my Victim of choice is under let's say 10 or so and so now to me it's now
I I think you're gonna your fear is that these kids are going to die but my initial fear is what kind of torture are
they going to have to go through before that death occurs right and to me then this motive becomes uh sexual
yeah and and you're right you're exactly right we have a crime where they can't figure out the motive but
the other thing that the investigators are saying at the time is that this they're not releasing what they believe
the motive to be however they're stating that you know this is a crime for which
there's no profile for this type of crime there's nothing that they were taught coming up that would teach them
about this exact type of crime and I think you can kind of figure out exactly what motive they believe they're working
with because what did they State very early on into the investigation the sheriff's department said that the
only thing that appeared to have been stolen from the crime scene was the kids right so not only are we playing behind
the eight ball because because of the delay in the amber alert but also think about this you know we don't have a
suspect name we do not have a suspect vehicle description or a direction of travel for this vehicle and plus keep in
mind in Idaho you can be in in another state in minutes almost heck you could you could jump the Canadian border
rather quickly from right but with every state depending on where you're at in the state you can be out of the state
within minutes no I get that but they were in northern Idaho and if you picture the the outline of Idaho that
puts in several States very quickly um you know and we stated that 48 hours is kind of the the the mark there that
you've got to be concerned about because 74 of kidnapped children that were that
are killed they are killed within three hours of the abduction Jesus and that's why we donate our money of
course and the thing here is you know for everybody out there listening that has pitched into the beer fund you know
cheers to you because you are the reason that we donated money to the the national Center for missing and
exploited children on several occasions because you know once the fridge is full
would just be greedy at that point if we're if we're not passing that along and trying to do some good with it and
it's one hell of an organization it's it really is it's it's been uh the the recovery rate has increased uh for
finding these kids and returning them home safely has increased since the organization and Foundation has been
created so it really truly is a good thing yeah and we're not trying to Pat ourselves on the back we are kind of
greedy bastards because we do fill up two fridges but we're also trying to Pat Pat everybody else on the back at the
same time all right my hand is getting tired all right so we have concrete Bob and and he's ruled out correct and we
have the ex-husband yes um and and I think I think with the ex-husband here Captain jabroni I think
um no Stephen grooney yeah Steven jabroni uh I think that we have a situation here where there might be some
speculation and some suspicion a little bit but I don't think that it's like something that they're really putting a
ton of weight into the guy is obviously been horribly affected by the crime uh and he's like I said he's on the front
line of this investigation he's out there with his time he's pleading to the abductor he's speaking to the killers
and asking for the children back right but so so he's kind of on the sideline we're gonna keep looking at him but
what's next in the investigation okay so let's let's fast forward a little bit here right because those are all jump
into the DeLorean those are all things that were taking place within the first week or two of of the investigation and
before we moved on from that I wanted to bring up the problem with the Amber Alert because it is a good system when
you when you put it in the ACT into action immediately right that's the whole point of it so anyway
three weeks into the investigation now hope is actually it's starting to fade by this point the sheriff's department
they they don't know who the killer or killers are nor do they know the whereabouts of Shasta and Dylan by this
time they had interviewed 700 people they had received and chased 1700 tips and leads and they had nothing new to
announce to the media in the community at this point three weeks into the investigation no new information to
present anybody and of course they they have to have some information that they hold back right we know that well
one one investigator did offer up his opinion though regarding the crimes stating that the murders had to have
been premeditated because whoever perpetrated the murders brought the necessary materials with them to bind
the victims as well as bringing the murder instrument as well stating it was an extremely violent scene and in his
experience a violent crime scene usually means the motivation is one of three things for him it's either money drugs
or love stating that this is the type of crime scene that he would expect to see
involvement from like a Columbia drug lord or something like that but he also pointed out you know that Brenda groney
and Mark McKenzie they were not dealing with large sums of money at any point right they were also not dealing with
large sums of drugs and they themselves didn't show any signs of having drug issues they found drugs in their system
but they couldn't find any reason to point out that the that the adults had drug problems well that is ridiculous
because here look I I don't think so go ahead okay well I I understand that people use drugs Recreation
recreationally I understand that people drink some beers maybe smoke a little pot
oh once you start doing something like math it's a it's a whole different ball game
so so the idea that they don't have drug issues that's to me that's just that's me
that's my opinion I get what you're saying I do get what you're saying because to me you're right
you would think that they're if you had to put out all the drugs on the line and
make and make a line draw a line in the sand that says okay these are for recreational use and everything on this
side would suggest that you have some kind of drug issue or problem I'm with you I would probably I would put
methamphetamine in the side of you got a drug problem right um you know but but this is the sheriff's department stating
this and I think that some doesn't mean they're correct it doesn't mean that they're correct but the reason why I
agree with their side on this one is that for the simple fact that they the the the the parents both held down
jobs okay they were they were listed they were said to be hard-working family-oriented people but everybody
also said the people that knew them closely they said they were hard-working people family oriented people but they
like to party a little bit right and they like to cut loose a little bit but like I said according to this on a
Sunday night before work on Monday okay I do when there's uh no I do when there's NFL football on but uh yeah
that's called drinking some beers uh you know that's not called uh methamphetamine right but the thing here
is like like I said they they did not find any uh proof that there was a manufacturing going on the house that
they were storing drugs selling drugs and furthermore like I stated they didn't state that they even found any
drugs at all it actually looks like they did not find any drugs in the possession
of the home because they took them all and on top of that here here's here's where I really side with them okay
is it they loaned a friend two thousand dollars and what I mean by that is I think that
people that have drug problems probably have money problems and they're not really in a position to be loaning out
money to to friends and family that's okay sure so I mean you look at every rock star
that has a bunch of money they they didn't have this family did not have a bunch of them right but what I'm stating
is your your thought process is well because they had two thousand dollars to loan out that they didn't have a drug
problem that is what I just said yes right and what I'm saying that would be like saying well like Ray Charles he
didn't have a heroin problem because he didn't have a money problem no he had a heroin problem I that's all I'm saying I
think I see what you're saying but we I think we should agree that Ray Charles was in a much different situation than
Brenda groney and Mark McKenzie right I understand that but what what I'm stating is to me uh the type of drug
they're using to me is a sign of that that's something that's a serious recreational drug so so the the
sheriff's department stating that this one member stating that he would have expected this to be the result of of
money drugs or love and he also stated that you know they they looked into that drug angle and they didn't believe that
was the cause of this crime they also looked into the love angle as well and this turned up nothing
and they you know the money in the drug issues all kind of the same thing there so they're going nowhere with this this
is like they had said there's this is a crime for which there was no profile for
now in 2005 Father's Day fell on Sunday June 19th and on Father's Day Stephen grooney told reporters it was his
Father's Day wish that his two children Shasta and Dylan would safely return home but of course he had prepared
himself for the worse he also told them that he was losing hope as well stating that he was very
optimistic the first couple of weeks that they were missing and he thought that the kids would be home soon but as
the week struck on he was no longer optimistic yeah and I couldn't imagine uh what a parent or
family member would be going through at that moment you know as the days drag on
they'd probably have to feel like the longest days in the world well a couple of weeks after Father's
Day this would bring us to July 2nd 2005 now um at 1 40 a.m We have two guys that are
outside of a 24-hour Denny's restaurant they're outside smoking cigarettes when they see I love me some Denny's though
when they see a red Jeep Cherokee this has Missouri license plates on it okay the vehicle pulls into the parking lot
and out jumps a middle-aged man and a little girl the guys smoking quickly recognized the
little girl to be Shasta the one that they had seen on billboards and missing Flyers uh all over all over the area
right uh one of the guys he texts his girlfriend uh the girlfriend is sitting inside she's you know inside eating as
he's outside smoking a cigarette he texts her to fill her in on what's going on you know I'm I'm seeing this guy and
I'm seeing this girl that's she looks exactly like Shasta um here's what I'm going to do I'm going
to call the police the the guys decide that the two of them are not going to let this guy and girl
leave the restaurant they're not going to tip them off right that they've spotted them but they're not going to
let them leave the restaurant until the police have a chance to speak with the both of them I I guarantee you these
these two gentlemen that were smoking they got the fight Jitters yeah I mean like they're probably all like riled up
at this point like okay we just gotta keep an eye on him without tipping our hand but we can't let this individual
get anywhere and at the same time though they're a little concerned that they might be uh mistaken because they don't
see a little boy right in this situation it's just the little girl in the in the
strange man so they're going to contact the police but kind of interesting twist
here though is that uh the manager of the Denny's contacts the police as well yeah so the way that this story works is
this the man and the girl they go into the restaurant and now the restaurant has some missing persons posters they're
you know posted in the in the vestibule or near the entrance right um shortly after the man walks in the the
girl of the poster the poster of the girl I'm sorry right is is removed it suddenly disappears uh from the wall why
from maybe from the guy okay yeah he take he takes down the poster okay so they are seated and the man orders
drinks uh and meals for both him and the girl the waitress then recognizes the girl to be Shasta as well she notifies
her manager about the situation by now we're at about 1 41 a.m both the manager and as the captain had stated one of the
guys outside smoking had called 9-1-1 shortly after the call a police officer responding to the call pulls into the
parking lot now they suspect that this man must have seen the cop because he quickly asked the waitress for his bill
he then got up and he took the girl with him and he headed toward the restrooms now two more police cars pulled into the
parking lot during this time of course all three cars were they were quiet you know none of them had their lights on or
their sirens on as they did not want to alert the man that that uh you know that
he and the girl had been cited they've been reported to Authority but he knows well
when the man and the girl return to their Booth where they were seated the man leaned over across the table to the
little girl he whispers something to her um no one really knows what what is said
no one heard what the man said to her now by this time the officers are inside the restaurant and they approached the
man and they told him they would like to speak with him outside now the the man he he goes with them without incident
once outside he spoke with the officers briefly and then they put him in the back of one of their cars
now the little girl at this point once she's alone she looks at the waitress and she tells her that her name is
Shasta groney and that she she wants to see her daddy even though the little girl appeared to
be fine she she didn't appear to have any you know noticeable injuries on her she appeared to be healthy
um she was quickly taken to the air an area hospital as this is standard procedure and she remained in the
hospital for a couple of days now shasta's father Stephen grooney uh he was notified and uh he would he had
actually gone to Seattle uh on a short trip to visit his sister uh shortly after arriving in Seattle he gets a
phone call that they found his daughter and so he's going to have to travel back
from Seattle to to to Coeur d'Alene now now keep in mind here's the strange thing here captain
this Denny's restaurant is is located near relatively near where the crime scene
took place where this girl was abducted from okay okay so the man who is apprehended uh he
sat in jail and all the while everyone is wondering what happened to Dylan yeah that's the question here I mean one
we need to figure out if they were you know were they witnesses to the murders where there's more than one
um perpetrator perpetrator uh is there maybe a group of people working what is the motive
um what trauma has she gone through where was she kept or where was she held during this time right like I said I you
know again people assuming that they're on the run I don't think is you know you
should never assume but also where is Dylan and who is this man that they have in custody then that's what we'll get
into next episode yes we're gonna have a lot of answers for you more on this case more on this
story tomorrow thanks to everybody for joining us in the garage for another beer and until tomorrow if you need any
True Crime garage go to truecrimegarage.com and thank you Nick thank you Captain thank you though thank
you everybody be good be kind and don't litter foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music]

The Fifth Nail /// Part 1 /// 118

Part 1 of 2

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Idaho – 2005, A family goes about their normal everyday activities. They didn’t know they were in the midst of a monster. For several nights he lurked outside their home watching them. He was waiting for the perfect time to strike. When he did the crime scene was so horrific law enforcement said it was a crime for which they had never seen. This week we feature a story that investigators called one of the worst in American history.

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Brief Summary

The episode details the murders of Brenda and Slade Groney, Mark McKenzie, and the abduction of Dylan and Shasta Groney in Idaho.

Key points

The Fifth Nail Blog. A personal journal that voices opinions against sex offender registration laws.
Discovery of the Murders. Three bodies are found in a bloody crime scene, leading to a search for missing children.
Concrete Bob Emerges as a Suspect. A friend of the family becomes the prime suspect in the murders.
Concrete Bob's Alibi. Concrete Bob took a trip to Boise the day after the bodies were found, raising suspicions.
Autopsy Revelations. Autopsies revealed blunt force trauma as the cause of death, not gunshots as initially suspected.
Toxicology Report Findings. The toxicology reports revealed the presence of THC and methamphetamine in the victims.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I might be the only one who can understand the nature of the demons.

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Tension

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