Robert Wone /// Part 2 of 4 | Forensic Files

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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
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[Music] as you heard in episode one there is a lot of question marks in this case and
we're going to go through as many of those as we possibly can and try to hit every single one how will we come out at
the end I don't know but as said earlier there is a lot of information that I think is key here now we talked a little
bit about the relationships in this case I think it is absolutely a big part of this case an
attempting to understand the house the layout of the home and the household in general
because depending on where one's suspicions May lie a description of the relationship of the three men inside the
home could be important now the captain addressed this in episode one and we talked about this a little bit as as
well what we do know is that Robert Juan first met Joseph price when Robert was an applicant to the College of William
and Mary Robert graduated from William and Mary in 1996 he received his law degree from the University of
Pennsylvania Law School in 1999 the two friends stayed in contact during that time and during the stretch from 99
until someone murdered Robert in 2006 also during that stretch Robert met and married Kathy Juan Joseph price became
involved in a committed romantic relationship with Victor zaborski in 2001 and Dylan Ward also became a
romantic partner of Joseph's in 2003 he also became a housemate of Mr Price and Victor as well again the relationship of
the three men living together has been described many different ways regardless we do know
that on more than one occasion when questioned by police they refer them refer to themselves as family so like
you were saying the EMTs take Robert to the hospital they pronounce him dead there is some confusion there because
basically the EMTs are saying well we believe Robert was dead when we got there um maybe some evidence that he was
dead longer than the three gentlemen were stating but he was pronounced dead at the hospital and then we also have to
make make this point too the EMT makes statements saying that when I showed up to this 1509 Swan Street all three of
these gentlemen Joe Victor and Dylan looked like they have taken showers and they were in Bath robes yes and so then
on top of that he said that when he got to the top of the to the second floor the floor that Robert was on that he
commented towards Dylan and Dylan didn't reply to him and just turned around and
went into Dylan's room and shut the door very odd behavior and then you have the EMTs
there you have police there then all three of the roommates are sitting on the couch and they're
whispering to each other Joe is the only one that's really talking to law enforcement and anytime the other
anytime either of the other two guys would speak he was giving them looks like shut up let me do the talking now
again Joe's a lawyer so that would make some sense hey I'm a lawyer I I deal with law enforcement often so let me do
the talking and then the cops say hey how about you come down to the station so then they come down to the station and
we're going to learn a lot more uh about their story IES and inconsistencies during that whether you
want to call it an interrogation or during that interview process yeah and so let's let's focus on this everything
that you went through here as you said so we have the EMT arrived there's two uh EMTs that are arriving together and
as you said their observation or at least one of their observations is that Robert Juan
has has been dead for some time they don't they don't clarify what sometime means but they do state in some of the
information out there that he was cold to the touch an indicator that he he wasn't just stabbed just minutes ago and
they called 911 immediately that some time took place between the stabbing whether that's by whom we don't know and
when they decided to call 911 because we do know this the 911 call is placed and
Paran Medics are on the scene within about five or so minutes of that call so they arrive rather quickly he probably
shouldn't be cold by that point the other thing too that's interesting is the neighbors statement that all I heard
a scream and she put the scream at before 11:30 the 911 call comes in at 11:49 there's no question about what
time the 911 call comes in the question is what time did the scream take Place police believe that that scream took
place before 11:30 based off of the neighbor's statement if in fact that is true then that means that the men inside
the home waited 19 minutes to make that phone call the tricky thing here is too if they are responding to scream to a
scream and door chime and all that in their statements that doesn't include a whole lot of Dylan right it's Joseph
price and Victor go downstairs they find robbert and then Joe sends Victor back upstairs to make the 911 call Dylan
would later tell police that he didn't hear what was going on right we have the the two individuals on the third floor
who are further away from the would be murder scene or what we're told is the murder scene that seem to hear the door
chime they're much further from that back door than Dylan is in fact Dylan would have been right above that back
door now we talked about these alarm systems they're not particularly loud usually those Chimes are set to a a
minimum volume because it's not that chime that's supposed to alert you if somebody broke into your home it's the
siren that goes off after the chime just simply alerts you that the door has been
opened and you wouldn't want that to be particularly loud because you don't want
it to be disruptive Dylan's statements is he didn't hear the scream he didn't hear the noises coming from what would
have been Robert's room like the others had stated and he didn't hear the door chime his statements to police is that
he was sleeping remember he said he took the sleeping pill so maybe that knocked
him out he also says that the air condition vent was above his bed and the air condition would have been on that
night because it was a hot night it's August and that the air condition when it runs it's rather loud and it really
kind of uh deafens any noise that he would hear from outside or even within the home outside of his bedroom the
detectives would say the opposite no we were in there we shut the door we cranked up the AC we heard it it didn't
it wasn't loud at all muffle the sounds of anything but we got to keep in mind here who's right who's wrong it's
difficult for us to say in the garage because if either the men inside the home are telling the truth or a complete
lie and regardless the police at some point are going to collect evidence or even a lack thereof evidence or build
their cases around the statements of these three men while I believe that they they're probably mostly honest I
will say in the documentary I saw times where you're getting a slightly exaggerated version
of statements that were given by other people right where for example the EMT saying well he's been dead for quite
some time okay that's what the EMT says when that same statement is relayed to us from the prosecutor or a detective
that person then says well he was dead for some time in fact the he was cold I don't have any reason to discredit the
detective or for the prosecutor but I didn't hear the EMT say that he was cold to the touch I'm hearing you tell me
that the EMT told you that he was cold to the touch well there's a few things weird to me about this interview process
of course law enforcement's going to try to divide and conquer they get each one
of these guys in a separate room they start asking them questions but one of the things that is
not clear in the documentary that I learned later was the three men kept asking for breaks and they would say hey
we need to take a break you know this is overwhelming and because they weren't being charged with anything and because
the law enforcement that you know basically the the guys were coming down to the station on their own free will
and trying to cooperate so I think on some level you can go well that makes them look innocent of any crime but so
they keep taking these breaks but they're all taking the brakes together they're going out into the parking lot
and and sitting in the car that they came in so when people say well you know this crime went down and there was 19
minutes and that's not enough time to get your story straight it's like well but you had more than that because you
have these breaks in between the interview sessions and then you also have just going down
if they all rode together in the same car to go down to the station how long of a period until they're in those
interrogation rooms I mean the the car situation is difficult for me to understand because we have the
prosecutor who will later refer to as one of of these meetings that you're talking about as the Mercedes meeting
because they were sitting together in a Mercedes I'm having a hard time figuring
out where the hell the Mercedes came from because there are clear statements from the detectives that they trans
reported all three of these individuals to the police station individually well that's because they had a friend come
down to the station right so maybe it's I'm guessing it's his car yes it's the friends Mercedes so so but we know that
they were transported according to the detectives individually damn If This Were my case and you tell me you want to
take a break I get it I can't hold you because you're not under arrest but guess what you want to go outside get a
little fresh air it's a nice warm night out there excellent all of a sudden I'm a smoker boys I got to go out and take a
smoke break with you or you know I'm not saying they were smoking but let's all go outside get a little fresh air you
know what we've been in here for 45 minutes I could use a cigarette all of a sudden I'm a smoker now I'm I'm keeping
a pack of cigarettes in my desk just in case I have to act this [ __ ] out would
you mind I know we've gone a long way down this road here Captain but I I do want to back up a little bit because I
think there are a couple things that we might have leapfrogged over here okay again I think that a a better grander
understanding of all of the relationships is important I'm talking about Robert and Kathy the wands
relationships with these three men okay so what we do know is the the the nucleus of this relationship is Robert
and Joseph have been friends since College Joseph's a little bit a few years older than Robert yeah Joseph was
a senior when Robert was a freshman we know that Joseph and Victor who are Partners
attended Robert and Kathy's wedding in 200 three we also know based off of Kathy ju's statements to police that
both her and Robert stayed in socially engaged with primarily Joseph but all three of the men she says that they
would socialize with them roughly about two to maybe four times a year regularly
from the time that they were married so we have a couple years of this pretty regular interaction amongst all five of
these people and she does say that look we both of us have been to their townhouse before on Swan Street in fact
Robert Juan's 30th surprise birthday party was hosted by these three guys at the townhouse on Swan Street and so we
have the wife that is saying look you know we knew these guys fairly well or at least enough that we socialized with
them face to face hanging out several times a year we had been to the home a couple of times because that was tricky
for me I was listening to Dylan statements to police and he tells the police yeah this was the first time that
Robert ever stayed over uh I wanted to know beyond the 30th birthday party how many times had they been there and
according to the wife they had been to the home let's see here's the exact statement the W socialized with the
housemates approximately two to four times per year and visited them at their home on three occasions after they had
moved into the residence on Swan Street okay so that seems pretty definitive pretty clear three occasions before this
horrible night where he's killed well what's confusing though to me is we know people knew that Joe and Victor were
married I don't think everybody in their Social Circle knew that Dylan had a relationship with Joe I don't think that
was something that they were sharing with everybody and they might not have been going out of their way to hide it
but it also doesn't appear to me to be obvious to anyone obviously Joseph and Victor you can tell that they're
together now one thing that I think and I might be wrong here I did watch the documentary twice but it looked to me
like one thing that was missing from the documentary is that the Swan Street house was a threeory row house right so
we have a basement we have the ground level we have the second floor where Dylan had his room Robert is found in
the study and then you have the third floor the top level where Victor and Joseph slept right but at the time there
was a basement unit that was being rented to a friend of the three men who live there her name is Sarah Morgan
she's renting a basement unit now on the night that Robert is killed she was out
for the night and it's my understanding the way that I've everything that I've read is it sounds to me Captain that Not
only was she going to be out for the night but it was kind of understood that she wouldn't be returning at all that
night yeah so that's implying that these three men knew Roberts coming over in advance they also know that their renter
because that's again we talked about this earlier she's a renter she's not a roommate but it's it's very possible
that there is some way to access the basement apartment through the the main level oh absolutely there absolutely is
yeah I've seen the layout you wish that she was there because obviously we would
have a clearer picture of what happened yeah so the let's talk about the layout of the home we already talked about
where everybody was staying but according to what the housan M state that they believe they believe that the
Intruder that killed Robert that stabbed Robert came in through the back door and
when they're asked that by police this this says to me that they they they're either convinced that that's the truth
or they're trying to sell this as the truth because they well how do you know it was the back door they say well we
heard the back door chimes and like I talked about with my security system at home and I know yours at your home and
the one that we use at the garage a lot of these security systems you can set them up so it it will tell you which
door was opened yeah or you can have door a make a different noise than door B or C so they're telling police that's
how we that's why we believe it was the back door that we well we heard the Chimes they they never at any time do
they say we think the Intruder would have come in through the front door now interesting here the front door is
locked the back door may have been left unlocked so it seems reasonable to believe that maybe somebody could have
entered the home from the back the problem is that the back door they have a small space behind the home some of
the homes there in these roow houses they actually Park their cars with inside a fenced in gated area that is
behind the home so you you essentially have no backyard at all here I think that they may have been parking one car
at the time I don't know the way that it's described in the documentary there was no vehicle back there but what's not
in question is every Source we could find says the same thing that backyard area as small as it is is
surrounded by an 8-ft fence can somebody jump an 8ot fence maybe on my best day when I was 20 I could I don't know I
don't think I've ever physically jumped an 8ot fence but the reason why somebody
would have to jump it is the way that it's described is that while the back door to the home was unlocked or
potentially unlocked no signs of forced entry to the home the gate which was equally as high as the fence that
surrounded it was not was was in fact locked yeah so law enforcement's also going to argue that when they heard this
story and they then investigate the crime scene they see cobwebs reminds me of the John B Ramsey Intruder theory
that you see cob maybe it was the same guy and you go this is not these items aren't Disturbed so it doesn't seem like
likely that somebody would have jumped the fence but we also have a neighbor that says
hey um you know whatever happened in that house you know I have this little kid play sandbox that the lid was
smashed and there's two Footprints so maybe if there was an intruder that when they jumped the fence to to get back
over that they landed on this sandbox I thought they quit making those types of sandboxes when we were little kids
because it looked like one that we had when we were kids remember the one that that's like shaped like a turtle yeah
and the lid is like a turtle shell and you take the turtle shell off and insides the beautiful sand and you play
in there with your GI Jo's and your little musclemen yeah that's what we did well that's maybe what you did but I
normally would take my pants off maybe take a leak maybe take a dump and blame it on the the house cat this guy is
saying look guys somebody could have came back over this fence and landed on top of my kid sandbox and here's an
imprint on the turtle shell lid on top that smooshed it in he's not saying this is in fact exactly what happened but
he's suspicious and saying look here's some evidence that it it might have gone down this way yeah and this individual
then claimed that law enforcement said to him we already got the the people responsible for this so they didn't take
this claim serious and that is the big criticism in this case to law enforcement is that they go well there's
four individuals in the house one is dead and we don't buy the story that these three guys are trying to sell us
so therefore they're responsible and they didn't look anywhere else and I think that's a fair argument thank you
thank you I believe so as well so think about this let me I I agree with you 1,00% but
I will say this in defense of the police when they show up to a scene one guy's dead
nobody else is harmed in any way at all nobody can describe the Intruder because
everybody says we didn't see the Intruder we're just guessing was an intruder the murder weapon came or at
least we're either either this we didn't even get into the murder weapon that yet
the murder weapon is displayed to lead persons to believe that a knife that belonged to the homeowners was the
murder weapon right there's no signs of forced entry and oh nobody stole anything from the home either so so for
any detective out there and I I want to be clear about this because I believe that maybe had they locked on to these
guys too early that I think that's a fair statement they probably did because I don't see a whole lot of activity
outside of the home looking for the killer or looking for the Intruder or looking for evidence of the Intruder it
looks to me more like they're looking for evidence of no Intruder but the defense that I will state is I believe
and I I could be perfectly wrong wouldn't be the first time it hurts every time um I believe that there's a
chance that maybe they locked on to these guys whether it's too early or not before they even had an understanding of
them being homosexual meaning I think that if detectives showed up to any scene and you have everybody there is
straight or whatever if they see no forced entry the murder weapon came from s inside the home nothing was stolen and
three out of four people were unharmed didn't see the Intruder I think immediately right there it's difficult
to not lock in or start going well maybe one or all of these guys did it and then
you start to learn about the home and the relationship of some of the people within that home again a variable here
that's not mentioned very often is the other roommate who was not home that night Sarah Morgan the uh one thing that
we've not mentioned is the home is rather large right we talked about it being essentially a four-story home once
you talk about the basement but it's a large beautiful home now one thing that's good for
detectives is this is a very neat and tidy home right like this it's got expensive furniture expensive
Collectibles it doesn't seem to be cluttered at all it also doesn't seem to be like it's open spaces in a lot of
these rooms from what I've been able to see this is a a home that partly in location but also partly because of its
size it's over a $1 million home back in 2006 but I think the responsible thing even if you're interviewing these
individuals and the stories not matching up I think you have to then go and figure out can you prove or disprove an
intruder Theory and so I I think that would have been easier to do at the start start than later but so during
this interview process they're trying to figure out which individual that they could break down and the prosecutor said
hey look th this Victor guy seemed to be an honest person and a good person and so they tried to to break him down but
then they have Dylan he's on the second floor with our victim so they end up pulling him out out of the interview
process to give him a polygraph and he fails the polygraph which does not help law enforcement wanting to believe these
individuals stories it's just not adding up it's just not making much sense [Music]
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at checkout [Applause] [Music] all right we are back cheers mates tall canes in the air party to the people in
the back cheers to all of you cheers to all of you on Thanksgiving day especially if you're traveling a great
distance I hope you're uh filling your earballs with True Crime garage goodness yeah and Gobble Gobble before you enjoy
a little friendship a little family a little food a little football a little fun on
Thanksgiving Day uh Captain you had mentioned something that I do want to bring up here uh in my notes I have a
note that there was in fact a door small set of stairs that led to the lower level the basement level from that patio
area behind the behind the row house right so you have an Alleyway you have a 8ft gate an 8ft fence that surrounds
this patio area inside the patio area are you have a table and chairs there's a small set of steps that lead down to
the basement with a locked basement door the back door to the home is supposed to
be dead boled uh and again the the alarm system is is constantly brought up by detectives Captain you brought up that
you you believe that it was it was still installed and still active however not monitored yes this is what the
prosecutor said yes so we know that to be fact if the pro utor said it it's got to be fact let's go a step further
though the police also have a very difficult and problematic part of the story for them
is look most burglars if they're going to enter home from that Alleyway it makes a
lot of sense to come out of that Alleyway and not go into the front of the home on the front of the home you
this is a street in a in a very populated area you would practically be on display going in out of that front
door so a burglar naturally is going to come in through the alleyway and choose to go in that back door if it were me
and I could get in that basement door that's the way I'm going in but one thing that detectives point out beyond
that security system monitored or otherwise typically what comes with these security systems is plenty of
signs and stickers for your windows that are notifications that hey this house is
armed I tell everybody that ask me about Simply Safe or about getting another security system for their home yes get
it and make sure that you put out the signs and make sure you put out the stickers because a lot of times that
alone is enough to deter some random burglar right somebody that doesn't know your home they see those signs the they
see those stickers guess what they do quite easy they go to the neighbor's house that don't have those stickers and
signs and they break into their home so the police point out that you know a burglar probably would avoid this house
because of the security system there's also motion detected lights back in that patio and according to the detectives
perspectives or at least what they're telling us it was well lit back there and we do know that criminals don't like
light they like to do things in the dark under the cover of Darkness so those lights may have been a deterrent as well
also very strange that they enter the home and don't steal anything and you and I had a conversation on the phone
leading up to hitting record today that I thought was ining cuz we we were kind of kicking around the idea of well maybe
this wasn't this Intruder wasn't a burglar at all maybe this Intruder went into that home with the intent of
harming or hurting or killing somebody right because if they don't steal anything we we know that they don't seem
to have been spooked right like this is a home filled with a whole bunch of expensive stuff you don't have to go
beyond the ground level to start bagging things up to take with you when you leave but where told we're led to
believe by the people that live there Intruder comes in he jumps the fence gets in through the back door no sign of
forced entry pulls a knife out of the Block in the kitchen goes up the steps oh by the way it's 16 stairs that are
described as rather Steep and old where you would hear it's wooden steps so you you might hear the footsteps themselves
you might hear the steps cracking and creaking as the person went up the key thing here that I think the detectives
really hit home for me in their description was even if this burglar was of the feline type right I'm talking
about a cat burglar here super stealth mode is able to slide slippery snake slide up those steps without making a
single noise they bypassed Dylan's room again we don't know if doors were closed
I get the vibe that Dylan's door was closed I have no clue if Robert's door was closed well and the other question
that I have is not just is the door closed but is the door locked I lock my bedroom
door so is it is it possible and especially when you have situations where you have uh multiple
roommates you might find yourself locking you know the bathroom door or the bedroom door when you go to sleep so
is it possible that the Intruder comes in tries to open up the first door they see and it's locked so they go to the
next one and we you know we have to talk about sexual orientation because if that
was if it plays a factor in the murder yeah because I think if you have this Intruder that's coming into the house
just to kill a random person what do we know about the individuals that live there and what do people in that area
know about their relationship like I said I don't think it was open knowledge to everybody that they
knew that hey this is uh again it's tough to say it's it's like a love triangle because you it may not connect
on all sides exactly and but there are horrible individuals out there yes there are we talk about them every week people
who commit hate crimes is there somebody that saw Joe in the in the newspaper this Joe has been uh in the
media in the news he's very successful he's a lawyer who who uh I can't remember the company that he represents
but it was a gay rights um attorney and is it is it possible that somebody in that area sees him that's interesting he
becomes the target but they they go into the house and the problem with the Intruder Theory though is if you open up
that door to get in the house the the alarm goes off most people would flee then if they had if the lights weren't
already a deterrent or the 8ot fence they would open up the door hear the Chimes Little P comes out and then you
you freak out and you turn around and run right so but I again I think if you lean towards the idea that the Intruder
Theory makes sense to you I think you have to start looking at it as it is this was this a targeted hate crime and
here's the thing where that gets a little dicey too right may maybe somebody comes let's just continue on
this little Think Tank Adventure here maybe somebody comes into the home and yes they are targeting one of the
individuals that live there or they're targeting Joseph specifically because he's a a gay rights attorney right
Robert Juan or look V like you said Victor was the point person of milk and yes the milk ads got milk right maybe
somebody out there is like you know you know what I don't got milk I got lactose
intolerant or I hate the got milk people yeah and and you're trying to you keep making me thirsty for milk but every
time I I drink it I [ __ ] myself so I'm going to stab you to death some some IBS
person it's a possibility well but here but also hold on hold yeah so we have Joe fighting for gay rights we have
Victor fighting for milk's rights and we have this Dylan character and he he's kind of strange and he and
he uh makes these weird trips to Thailand and and he has multiple jobs and it doesn't seem like he has and look
not everybody finds their path in life we haven't even got to the SNM stuff yet right and yeah and then on top of that
we do find and I this might be jumping the gun a little bit but we do find an online sexual profile for I believe Joe
and so then you start questioning have and then okay so let's just dive into some of the real real quick because I
didn't get to finish my thought in what the detectives were saying about the stairs they they called into question
how loud those stairs were creaking and the hardwood floors and all that and the
hardwood uh floor steps themselves but what they're saying is simply this and what I'm echoing here and actually
adding some additional words even the burglar was of the cat type in super stealth mode and made it up those steps
without making a single noise the problem then becomes you stab someone there's a scream at some point and now
you have to flee you don't walk and slip and slide Slither your way out of that out of that townhouse you're running
you're forced gumping it out of that house yeah unless you're and you're going toppy snake you're going to you're
going to clip and clop on those stairs as you go down 16 right steps 16 steep stairs down to flee
again back out that back door well the prosecutors point something out and I just want to be clear about this as
clear as we can make it the prosecutors believe that there is evidence that if there was an intruder they didn't just
open up the door and see Robert laying there and then stab him there that the Intruder would have had to walk around
to the other other side of the bed cuz if you just think about how a knife is yeah you have the sharp in and you have
the doll end so the stab marks the sharp end are pointing away from the door so unless the individual held the knife the
wrong way that you or the the way the wrong way that you'd think somebody would hold the knife to stab an
individual the stab marks don't make sense and they would almost have to reach across his body which which
depends on right way wrong way some people would pick up the knife sharp side right you're going to stab in a
downward motion that's why you're going to get that earthquake effect that wake effect on the bed if he stabbed on the
bed right which I don't think he even was stabbed on the bed and I think wake effect not mentioned I don't think
anywhere else is indicative that he wasn't stabbed on the bed but you have identical stab marks and if you were to
hold it so that the blade would be toward you when you come down with it that might be one way you watch movies
and I'm guessing that this is how they might do it in military or or mercenaries or whomever out there people
that are better skilled with a knife than yours truly but in movies like under siege and all those other movies
you regularly see the guys hold it where the blade is toward your the person you're trying to attack even though
you're holding it the blade pointed side down right you got the handle blade is not up blade is down that's how you stab
someone right the other weird thing while we're on the stab for a minute here well there's a lot of people that
call into question that that knife wasn't the knife that was used to stab him right because the length of that
knife for it to be that knife it didn't go all the way in on all three stabs so it would have stopped short a little bit
on each stab and they're almost identical to the point where somebody says experts say look it would be nearly
impossible for somebody to replicate the same stab using this knife because it's too long
that that one of those wounds would have been deeper and so therefore they're saying a shorter knife must have made
these wounds and if in fact this is not the murder weapon then the story that these guys that live there are trying to
sell you is not true we are missing the murder weapon and then somebody took the
time to Stage the scene to make it look like this knife from our block was used to kill him yeah and so let's stay on
this knife for a little bit this this is a knife that we know comes from the kitchen it's from uh you know one of
those blocks that have a bunch of different instruments if you will has multiple different knives they don't
pick the biggest knife they pick one that's roughly what about a 5 in Blade I believe yeah and so that's strange but
here's where look some people say I've I've reviewed this Kake and in my eyes that knife is the knife that was used
again the the stab marks not being long enough I think is a red flag but I think
the other red flag is we have an individual saying well the knife was on Robert's chest or the knife was inside
Robert Y and I pulled that out and then I placed it on the nightstand we have now out of the three individuals there's
only one saying they t touch the knife and that's Joe so we should find Joe's DNA on the knife we don't we should find
some kind of fingerprint on the knife Joe's fingerprint right we don't we think then at that point well maybe we
would find some DNA from the killer if Joe's not the killer we don't I mean obviously you can say that the the
Intruder would be wearing a glove but that doesn't stop the DNA a and the Fingerprints of Joe ending up on that
knife handle so it just doesn't make a lot of sense and then somebody can go well maybe they clean the knife off well
that shouldn't get rid of all DNA and that shouldn't get rid of all fingerprints unless you were purposely
trying to get rid of them and there's hardly any blood in the room right like the paramedic is saying I'm getting
there to the scene and I'm not seeing I'm seeing stab wounds I'm not seeing blood there's two little puddles of
Blood on the bed and so think about this if somebody comes in and stabs someone that when you
you into the body out of the body into the body out of the body and so on the out of the body is going to bring blood
up and out right and it's going to it's going to Splatter it and you'll have blood spatter on probably walls or
sheets or elsewhere within that room now unless the Intruder stabbed him in a way
and just got lucky enough that all of that that blood spatter ended up on themselves and They carried it out of
the home with them right then there should be blood spatter somewhere and then the other part of it is there's
there's not a whole lot of blood and you have the paramedic this is okay this is
the difference between the prosecution the detectives in the paramedic statements again I I I found another
discrepancy between what they're they're somewhat saying the same thing but one seems a little exaggerated right the
prosecutor and detectives say well it looks like he had been stabbed showered and then placed in the bed right however
the paramedic doesn't say that the paramedic says and and they're trying to relay the paramedic words to us I think
they just exaggerated it the paramedic actually says it looked like the victim had been wiped clean he doesn't say
showered he says wiped clean like there should be some blood on his chest resting on his chest and it looked like
somebody wiped down Robert's chest they do find Blood on the knife that is sitting on the nightstand or end table
that is next to the bed yes as the captain pointed out they don't find fingerprints palm prints or DNA so
whoever used that knife if in fact that was the knife that stabbed Robert they didn't they didn't get cut in the
process and leave their own blood on that knife what it why would that not be the knife that that was used on Robert
captain I don't think we've got to this point yet well there's a knife missing from Dylan's room yes when they conduct
a search of the home they find a lot of things that are let's say interesting to
their investigation yeah and one of the things that they find is a knife set now
from our understanding The Knife Set was gifted to Dylan from his mother is that
correct yeah and well that's what she claims yes it's a three-piece set right two knives and like a fork and it's it's
nice expensive looking decorative it comes in a beautiful case according to the detectives we find one knife and the
large fork in there in this case but clearly a smaller knife that is missing why is it missing we think it's missing
because they used it on Robert and then concealed it or managed to get rid of it
before we were able to search the home the interesting thing and cool thing here I want to I would like to know when
they conducted the search number one I would guess that you could get the search warrant rather quickly you find
somebody that's been murdered in a home there's probable cause to search the home or you wonder if the three
individuals gave them permission to to search because it again it's it's this weird thing because by them going down
to the station right after the EMTs take their friend away you can look at something like that and
go well that's them you know trying to cooperate with law enforcement but then you could also get well but if they're
trying to cover their tracks then they're going to want to look like they're willing to be open and honest
with law enforcement as well and so same way with if they gave them permission to
search well we got nothing to hide we told you was an intruder so this case is just so bizarre the
knife that we're talking about from the set that was found in Dylan's room in his possessions that that was missing
Dylan and his mother both tell police yes when when when that set was gifted to Dylan the knife was she had kept the
knife or the knife was already missing I the a lot of the statements are that she
kept the knife well that would be easily you could easily sort that out if she could produce that knife for you right
but even if she could she had enough time to go get another knife set to try to save her son from getting charged
with murder depending on the age of the knife set right correct you might like I
have some knife sets at my home that are were my grandmothers I would doubt that
I might be able to to with the internet nowadays but I wonder how much effort I would have to go to to replace one of
them but I think what's more fascinating you know they they don't find this knife
in the knife set but I think it's more fascinating what law en enforcement does find in Dylan's room and it's not just
look a lot of people have joy toys and sex toys we've done a couple of ads for some wonderful Joy toys and I'm so glad
that you have read those and not me because I'd probably just sound completely inappropriate the whole time
um but should we stay in Robert's room before we go into Dylan's room see this is where it gets difficult for us here
in the garage and and I'm sure other other people have struggled with this as well probably even the documentary The
Good folks that put together the documentary for peacock there's so much stuff that you could get into with this
case and it's very quickly to go round and round right and spin your tires a little bit trying to sort the stuff out
make sense of some of it and figure out who's to blame that you can get lost in the sauce as we say here in the garage
and so in Robert's room we'll get to Dylan's room in just a quick second okay so okay let's just be clear we're going
to get to the Joy toys yes so stick around but in Robert's room some other things that are that are interesting you
find there is a bloody tow in there there now we know that the 911 operator is telling Victor hey you got to you we
got to stop the blood you got to get some tows and put them on top of of our victim here and press down and press
down and stop that blood till the paramedics get there and can try to save this guy's life so you would expect to
find a bloody towel there however there's not a whole lot of blood on this towel there's not a whole lot of blood
on the bed it has been suggested that the blood there's two blood spots found on the blood bed that either the blood
from the wounds came up you know bubbled up to the point that it rested on the body and at some point had to run down
the the top or the side of the uh torso right which would have caused a little bit of puddling again everyone saying we
didn't find as much blood as we thought there's no blood spatter or splatter to to be recognized or that is observed at
the house or in that room let's say even more important the blood on the towel not as much as they thought they would
find they do find again this is in support that there is no Intruder they find Robert Juan's belongings right near
him and you know you go into a room your room or you stay elsewhere you put you take off your your belongings and you
set them down he had he had organized and set down two wallets because he carried a dummy wallet in case somebody
tried to mug him two wallets that were not touched I hope I never live in a city that I have to carry around a fake
wallet if you do if you live in a a tough City you you put your wallet in your front front pocket so somebody
can't pull it out the back they also found his watch he had an expensive watch not touched a
Blackberry which would have been considered expensive as well not touched and a some Reports say he had a
Blackberry and a cell phone which does make sense to me because I remember years ago when the blackberries were
popular those that's it's essentially a different item than a cell phone uh it it behaves a lot like a smartphone there
were the phones back then weren't so smart uh it did a lot of things and a lot of times blackberries were issued to
uh professionals hardworking very busy professionals because it was a way that you could send emails and you could you
they had I think something called Lotus Notes like a group that works together could go in and create notes and then
manipulate them so you could work as a team through your blackberry whether you at work or not so cell phone Blackberry
watch two wallets none of that taken but he stabbed so that goes to the thought that maybe there was no Intruder that
would point no Intruder what does point to Intruder is the way that Robert Juan is dressed he's wearing his college
shirt and shorts they check with his wife Kathy says yes that's what he would have worn to B
so that is indicative that he did get ready for bed and then laid down on the bed they also found his mouth guard
inside his mouth his wife says that was the last thing that he would do before going to bed every night is put the
mouth guard in so you have things in this room that are suggestive of the Intruder Theory and against the Intruder
Theory now back to the knife real quick the prosecution has a big problem because they don't find any fibers of
his shirt on the night they're saying if he was stabbed and and he had to have been stabbed through that
shirt it's the only thing that makes sense because the the cuts on the shirt line up damn near perfectly with the
wounds of the body so they're saying that you should find fabric little bits and pieces of fabric from that shirt on
the knife when it went through the shirt and then into the Skin So if that knife
is the instrument that killed him or is responsible for the stab marks then we should could find like you said those
Fabrics but we don't and so again you go back through Joe's story I found the knife on him or I found the knife in him
we find we do find pieces of terry cloth on there little fabric pieces of terry cloth which the prosecution will say is
suggestive that somebody used the towel got the towel nice and bloody and then transferred blood uh either wiped blood
from the the knife or was using the blood on the towel to place it on the knife to make it look like that knife
was used I don't know man I I if I'm trying to sell the Intruder Theory to law enforcement yeah I don't think I'm
going and picking a knife from my block and using it and going to all these ways
to manipulate a knife and then try to tell you that's the knife that that had to be used it's got the victim's blood
on it I would much rather have if you're going to get rid of a knife because we know that the the home was searched and
they didn't find a kn and they're saying that the knife that wasn't found was the
potential murder weapon why wouldn't you just not use a knife inside the home figure out how to get rid of the knife
that was used unless it was one that's obviously missing from the Butcher Block and just say well yeah of course we're
not finding a knife because the freaking Intruder took it with them when they left right so the knife thing doesn't
make a whole lot of sense to me what one thing that's not brought up in the documentary when they talk about the
specifics of the knife one thing they did find on the knife is pieces of his chest hair so now could that been
transferred in another way yes right it doesn't mean that that knife was used to
stab him but I tend to lean to the idea that that was in fact the knife that was
used unfortunately on Robert ju right but then the question becomes why do we not find fingerprints palm prints or DNA
yeah why would if you're completely innocent why would one of those individuals Joe Victor or Dylan why
would they clean the knife so much that they then had to put blood back on the knife it's it's just yeah I I actually
don't think that they put blood back on the knife I think it was used and they just set it there how how do you get the
the cuts to come from a five-inch knife and fall half an inch short or whatever it was identical on three different
wounds I go back to the idea that you didn't find any fingerprints or DNA of another person on that knife on the hilt
or the handle but you did find terry cloth I happen to believe that the shirt was on and that one of the persons that
lived in that home used that knife and wrapped the terry cloth towel around the handle and the hilt right and stabbed
them and the reason why it's identical in in the depth of the Stab Wound is because that towel was not moved or
manipulated after the first stab it was used boom boom boom and I actually believe the reason why I think the towel
they found in that room was the one used wrapped around that knife I think that the reason why you're not finding a
whole lot of blood on that knife is I think he was dead before those stab wounds were even administered
[Music] want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week
and I want to wish you a very very Merry turkey day the most glorious day and weekend of them all I I cannot tell you
how much I love this extended weekend for me it starts Wednesday afternoon and carries itself all the way to Monday
morning so enjoy every single minute of it drink them if you got them tall hands
in the air do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week captain we're going to be
recommending the burden Empire on blood this is a fantastic True Crime Deep dive
podcast about a double homicide in the Bronx the burden Empire on blood is brought To Us by award-winning
journalist Steve Fishman who we had on our amazing show off the Record very recently Steve worked this case for
years getting to the bottom of what really happened Steve has interviewed such True Crime figures as Bernie maof
and David burkwitz AKA The Son of Sam you can find the burden Empire on blood podcast listening using the same method
or apparatus however you are hearing my voice right now shout out to Steve and shout out to everybody for this
wonderful Thanksgiving yeah if you haven't listened to the interview we did with Steve on off the record it was
freaking awesome and until next week be good be kind and don't live [Music] [Applause]
[Music] [Applause] [Music] this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom it's a season of Wonder all
the way at Nordstrom you'll find the best gifts for everyone you love plus party ready looks for every occasion
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Robert Wone /// Part 2 of 4

Part 2 of 4

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com/)

On August 2nd, 2006 Robert Wone a young prominent lawyer went to stay with friends after a long day at work. He arrives at the home of three friends 1509 Swann Street, Washington D.C. at 10:30PM. At 11:49PM an emergency call is made to 911 requesting an ambulance. Sometime between 11:08PM and 11:49PM, Robert Wone was stabbed three times in the chest and abdomen with a knife. His friends say an intruder came into the house using the backdoor. The police say otherwise. If you have any information about this case, you can contact the Washington, DC. Metropolitan Police Department by calling the tip line at 202-727-9099. You can remain anonymous.

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Garage Grade - 4 out of 5 bottle caps

Recommended - The Burden: Empire on Blood podcast. Empire on Blood is about a double homicide case in the Bronx. Award winning journalist Steve Fishman worked the case for years. You can hear Steve on our other show Off The Record available on Apple Subscription and Patreon.

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Brief Summary

The episode examines the murder of Robert Juan and the conflicting accounts from those involved.

Key points

True Crime Garage Introduction. Hosts Nick and Captain welcome listeners and set the stage for true crime discussions.
Exploring Relationships in the Case. The hosts delve into the complex relationships between the key figures involved in the case.
Childhood Sandbox Memories. A nostalgic reflection on childhood sandboxes and playful innocence.
Law Enforcement Criticism. Critique of police handling of the case, focusing on their early conclusions.
The Intruder Theory. Exploring the possibility of an intruder and the implications of their actions.
The Mystery of the Knife. Questions arise about the knife used in the murder and its implications.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

They refer to themselves as family.

Suspects' relationship dynamics

5:33WatchNov 27, 2024

Tension

65/ 100Some tension

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