JonBenet: Poems & Pornography /// Part 1 /// 723 | Forensic Files

[Music] [Music] I'm very glad to be here in the garage with two experts on the John Benet ramsy
case and experts on the city of Boulder around the time of the murder as well the the gentlemen joining me today are
brothers the zel Brothers Jim and Frank and they've been looking at the John Benet ramsy case almost since day one so
they started looking at this case early 1997 one thing that I really enjoyed and
I thought was a breath of fresh air when we first met for the first time guys you
told me about something that you called the boulder syndrome could you explain again to me what that is and to our
wonderful listeners what it is that you call the Boulder syndrome well thanks for for having us on Nick we appreciate
the time thank you Nick uh the boulder syndrome that's what our original Theory morphed into in January of
1997 we devised our own theory about the case we called it the sex ring Theory we
do not believe that John or paty Ramsey killed their child but maybe were involved in something which put their
daughter In Harm's Way and led to her death that was our Theory and as we looked into
Boulder as the days went on the weeks the months the years we started finding out that there
were all these cases and we were getting bits of information about things that not many
people knew about and involving child sexual abuse so it for us it became bigger than the John Benet Ramsey case
and we call it the boulder syndrome we use the word syndrome because in medical terminology what is a syndrome it is a
series of symptoms that repeat over and over and that's what that's how we view Boulder that they have they have had a
pedophile problem in that town for decades yeah it's always been painted Boulder as this perfect town but there
is an extremely Dark Side to it uh underneath the surface it's really dark and that's what I found so amazing some
of the cases that you guys pointed out to me you know we have Lawrence Schiller's book and I think it's a
fantastic book it it Chronicles a lot of the events and the movements about this
case early on perfect murder perfect town jeanet in the city of Boulder but as you guys quickly pointed out to me
not so fast there Nick this is not the perfect town and here's why so let's let's take the listeners through some of
the the child sex some of the the grosser more disturbing things that were going on in
Boulder starting with the Slusher Cas the Slusher case this was a case that started out early on in Hunter
uh career so Hunter Alex Hunter the district attorney who uh at the time of the uh ramsy
murder he was elected into office around 1972 And this case happened in 1977 you
had a man the name of Floyd David Slusher arrested in 1977 for um molesting Boy Scouts
and we found out about this case when the the Boy Scouts released their files about pedophiles who had worked for
their organization and we pretty much when they did that we pretty much guarante
that we we'll definitely find a boulder connection and we found Floyd David Slusher uh so he rested in
77 he was convicted on one count of sexual assault on a minor and he was sentenced one day to life which I had
never heard of before but and he served about six years now as we started digging in to
the to Mr Slusher we found the the investigating officer's notes this was an officer D of the color
of the uh Sheriff's Office the Boulder County Sheriff's Office and the things he wrote about
Slusher were incredible for example uh this is a quote from the handwritten notes of that
77 case the tro stated that he quote learned of many victims too numerous to interview so right there that gives you
pause what do you mean that they were too numerous to interview you didn't interview everybody
there were so many you stopped so that was problem number one and uh D also stated that Slusher sexually approached
every boy scout troop in troop 75 and Troop 73 and that Slusher chose victims outside of scouting as
well it is evident however that Slusher through his sexual assaults assaults on young boys has affected many young
lives and the most distressing part of it was when the tro stated parents of one of the
victims may have been directly promoting a relationship between their son and the
suspect that is in what the old terminology that we use two or more people involving you know that are
involved in abusing a child is called The Sex ring that's what we always called it and still do today you call it
human trafficking so this this case ends up he's arrested for several counts and Hunter and his office plead
him down to one count now the parents of the other kids were outraged but hunter tried to calm them
down but saying look if if we charge them if we if we do all eight it's going to come out to the same
sentence and that was said to kind of keep the parents at Bay but what the parents didn't know
about were the handwritten notes by Officer D Hunter didn't have to plead him out he could have went back to DET
tril and interviewed the numerous amount of witnesses that they didn't interview and
you could have hit him with a slew of charges and kept him in prison for a much longer time but that didn't
happen and that for us where it starts I'm sure there's cases before 77 but you're going to see a common
theme with like everybody bashes the police department and we do too but the District Attorney's Office they're the
ones who were really at fault in our opinion and and slusher's um when he was initially arrested you know the the acts
that he that he was accused of being committed at the time they were atrocious horrible but yet you had many
people come to his defense you had professors write letters to the judge you had
lawyers uh that were not representing him obviously but they were writing letters for him to to be lenient if not
straight out released they wanted him released on bond if you could believe it uh this and and Slusher did this by
by the he did all this by the rip old age of 24 years old yeah they usually start they usually the statistics will
tell us that they usually start in that late teens early 20s age for this type of behavior this these type of
gross actions and crimes and and what we're seeing here is I think with the Slusher case I look at that one and I go
well this is showing me that either these these molestation cases and I don't know the details of some of the
the crimes that he committed but the molestation cases especially in the 70s they were handled a lot differently back
then than they are today and and so that that could be a little bit a sign of the times kind of
thing but I think you're right what we're what we're going to see with some of these cases is is either
a some kind of Disconnect where where we're not we're not convicting these people to the fullest extent of the law
and why why are we not doing that and and and what's behind that so let's move forward guys to to 84 I believe it was
1984 the Sid Wells case uh I believe it was 1983 nick uh it was the murder of uh
sidw Wells by the the person arrested for the murder it his name was th smika and this is where you're going to
hear how Alex Hunter handled it wasn't just uh the Ramsey grand jury that he was kind of
messing around with he he kind of screwed with the uh sidwell's grand jury and made deals and just to touch on
because we're gonna actually get to that maybe touch on it with this case as well
when you said that in the 70s they handled cases different in Boulder it never never changed right from the 70s
to the 80s to the 90s and after they were ex that District Attorney's office that's all they did was make crazy plea
bargain in pedophile cases and we'll touch on that but uh as for Dane smer Sid Wells was uh he
brought th in as a roommate to help pay the rent uh th was usually uh late with the
rent which sidw Wells complained about and thing was a bit of a a drug user also a drug dealer and the brother of
sidwell's went camping came home one day and found his brother uh shot in the back of a head with a shotgun so that's
how and and th smah isn't there he had left a note on the table stating that he was
elsewhere and wouldn't be back to a certain time that was his kind of his Alibi look it was his
shotgun he left the note on top of the blood so he was arrested but hunter did something very very strange he made a he
made a deal he had a grand jury formed to investigate the case and it was just he he made a deal that
was so strange that the detectives working on the case weren't aware of it and after it was over they actually
looked into seeing if Alex Hunter committed illegal acts by doing this he worked Hunter and sm's attorneys agreed
in writing that the grand jury convened to invest investigate the case would not
indict smah that was the deal hunter made with sma's attorney and they also agreed that
sm's mother and sister would not be called as Witnesses why because sm's own mother
said he did the murder so what happens they make that deal and in exchange sm's attorney allows smer to
remain in police custody even though no charges are formally filed against them now they only have so much time to hold
them then they release him he sticks around Boulder for a period of time and then he disappears
and two this day they're still looking for him that's how Alex Hunter handled that case let's push forward and go to
the dbor case Bruce dbor uh was working for the University of Tennessee when he was arrested in 2013 and he was caught
up in this worldwide investigation and it was called project spade and this this project Spade was they were
investigating a Canadian film company called aav films and this this aav films they were in they were into uh child
torture pornography so Bruce nsboro was caught up in this he was a arrested and there were some other people arrested in
this uh US senator Lamar Alexander's Chief of Staff his name was Jesse Ryan Larin he was also arrested and but he
wound up committing suicide um there were about 350 people in total that were arrested in this
investigation uh and then going back to dbor he had about 20,000 images um that were on his computer and this is some of
the most brutal stuff uh the the abuse and torture of toddler you know re really horrific uh material
dbor this is where he was arrested in Tennessee but there's a tie-in it goes back to Boulder Colorado you know and
dsb was arrested in Boulder Colorado in 1986 Jim I'm sorry if I I don't mean to jump over you go ahead you know in the
80s Bruce sboro lived you know in Boulder in the surrounding area and he worked at the College of Boulder in the
Grants Department go ahead Jim continue sorry about that no that's true yeah if he
lived there and and he was a lawyer um and he molested two boys and he pleaded guilty to sexual assault on a child and
sexual assault in the third degree obvious you know the common pattern no jail time has ever given in these cases
uh in the first case he received a deferment and the second case he received I think it was two years
probation and he also also mentioned to Tennessee investigators that he also molested other children as well but that
was never never really pursued yeah his words were he got away with it yeah he got away with it that's right so uh and
what's interesting about this is John Ramsey's access Graphics was the uh subsidiary of Lockheed Martin and in the
90s Lockheed Martin was the United States number one defense contractor going back to
1986 the number one defense contractor was h RB singer and the president of that company in 1986 was George dsb
Bruce's father you're going to see a pattern the more we share stories of you know you're going to see lawyers City
officials people of prominence police caught up in deviant activity so that's a that's the the
Downs Boro in a nutshell and then of incred I mean these cases are already very disturbing but
but one that really takes the disturbing cake is the Ballard case the Ballard case is known to be the most horrific
sex abuse case in Colorado History you had um Mike Ballard and Patricia Ballard with their friends uh Dennis
Dunham and his wife and they were abusing um the Ballard kids and I believe there was five of them seven
seven kids seven kids and they were it was torture sexual abuse incest you name it these kids were going through it and
they had a they kind of had a system going where they would abuse in one town and when DHS came and got wise they
would move to another town and continue the abuse and they would get visited and
the kids would have all types of um you know damage to their bodies cigarette spms bite marks but they were never
taken out of the home they were never taken away from them they were even brought before a judge with a broken
Limbs and they were still sent back to the ballards so this went on from a for a
period of you know years uh they were eventually arrested in 93 when finally they took the the children out of the
home and placed them in a foster home and when they felt comfortable enough they told the foster parents what was
going on and that's how the arrests were finally made after the kids disclosed the horrific abuse that they were
experiencing at the hands of the ballards and and the dunans but it kind of It kind of expands though
it's not just the ballards and the dunans because when we received the affidavits for this case when you read
um the police reports it says that the children were being pimped out in the neighborhoods to other adults
neighbors to everyone and what's interesting is that there were no other arrests made there was just strictly the
dunans and the ballards all these other people that these kids said that they were abused by neighbors you think
they'd be easily approached and questioned but this never took place and some of these other persons were named
it wasn't just a neighbor or somebody from Boulder some of these persons were named in the affidavit there were no
other people named in the affidavit they they said that there were strangers they
said neighbors other kids o o other children the thing is is that they just focused on the four and that was it
right even though the the kids talked about being taken to other places made to have you know BR you know
brutally raped in front of many adults other children were there they you know nobody looked into it you know this case
had the largest Task Force at the time in Colorado History you had multiple you had Longmont Lafayette
Boulder Social Services mental health it was this huge task force but yet they only focused on the four and they were
these people were also picture takers so they took pictures and possibly film so how they did not look for other
people we we can't find it we can't find any paperwork on the task force even though it was the largest one in the
state's history we can't find anything it was it was the jail sentence that was truly amazing
just on the incest alone you could have locked these people up for life right never mind the torture you know the
pimping out to you know the other you know having him pimped out to other people I think Ballard I think uh
Michael Ballard was given 10 years I think his wife was I think she served five uh what was Dennis dunnan's wife's
name Jim I forgot that one that that name escapes me but she got off scott free yeah she didn't do a day in jail
and Dennis dunnan got life yeah and I think I think Balor did eight and a half yeah he did
eight and a half maybe so but Dennis dunnan got life because once again the Boulder
County District Attorney's Office pled these people down this was such a disgusting
plea that there were attorneys involved in this case that left the District Attorney's
office they just didn't leave the District Attorney's office they stopped being attorneys because they were so disgusted
on what happened and everybody complained about the Polie the kids complained about it
social workers complained about it but yet they did it anyway and Nick I I was able to reach out to
somebody that was very close to that case that uh was uh knew what was going on uh in the DA's office at that time
and also was uh you know close to the kids as well and this person relayed to me that this case was a hot
potato at the DA's office nobody wanted to handle it right and she and this person said that the the children were
treated in a hostile manner by the DA's office the kids were very uncomfortable and
they were treated poorly and and and this person did not understand why why why why why they were handling them they
were getting threats in a sense like some kids were in the hospital and they were threatening the kids by saying if
you don't come to the DA's office we're not going to press charges stuff like that very bizarre how they handled this
case and eventually my brother and I were able to track down one of the uh child
victims in the case lived out in the midwest um I I was able to talk with with him on the phone briefly because he
kind of was caught off guard um but when I mentioned the case to him after his initial shock of kind
of being brought back up he settled down and he said that he had a fear of police
officers in the in this case I said well why do you have a a fear of police officers and he said this he
goes they were orchestrating the abuse that's how he said it to me and I said where he said Boulder
longm and I said okay so at at one point I was was able I I took a reporter me and a reporter I went out
from from from me who who told us to go out to the Midwest to interview him he did no no who who who told us to do
it you remember Ali ah Ali gr we told Ali Great's information about what one of the B what the Ballard kid had said
to my brother right and Ali was like you need you know because of his health issues at the time he couldn't
travel so he begged us to do it he's he found it to be that important yeah so once I got out there
with the reporter I had conversations with with the Ballard uh kid and he said he was going to show but eventually he
he backed out so it was kind of a a failed trip on the sense that he he he wouldn't show up to to speak further on
it when he mentioned the police orchestrating the abuse that's what I really wanted to dig deep into but when
you look at the affidavit and you start reading through uh the police narrative one of the girls
mentions at one of these get togethers where they're being abused and they're being and they're being sexually abused
she said oh well I thought we were going to get money for it but I I I never received any and then she said there was
a policeman there and I told him that I'm being abused used here and it says in the affidavit when she told this
quote unquote policeman that the policeman and Mike Ballard laughed together that says that right in the
affidavit I was just reading it today in a matter of fact County that there the girl said
that she reported it to a policeman who was there and the policeman and Mike Ballard
laughed and there's also in the affidavits uh police officers going to the the home at different times during
the day you know showing up in uniform now when we're not saying that the entire Boulder Police Department was
involved or Longmont but all it takes is one or two and it's a dis you know these are
disturbing allegations that were made and it's no wonder Ali gray wanted us to go out
there and try to get more information and I'm unfortunately the kid didn't you know he got nervous and didn't show but
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safe the zel brothers are investigating Boulder the time period leading up to the John Benet ramsy murder case and
even the city afterward if anyone has any tips they're looking for information in all the cases that we've just
discussed as well as anything that was going on that was not on the up and up in Boulder in the 1990s and after and if
anybody has information or would like to speak with one of the zel brothers or both please use this email address jbr
tips atgmailcom once again that's jbr tips atgmailcom what we are seeing here time and time again and what these cases
point out is a flawed history of the town of Boulder and the persons that are supposed to be responsible for
investigating horrific crimes and a lot of the crimes we we just talked about crimes against children and you're
seeing repeatedly failed investigations failed follow-ups a failure to convict these
individuals to the fullest extent of the law they are soft on crime in Boulder and they are softed on crimes against
children in Boulder at this time period and and that's that's what we call that's the boulder syndrome this is what
we're talking about this repeats over and over for decades throughout the you know Alex Hunter's tenure we've spoken
to people we've spoken to former detectives who worked at the Boulder Police Department and know everybody
says the same thing The Plea Bargains were out of control everybody says it and one thing we didn't mention with the
ballot case my brother talked about the judge that the kids were brought before and and the judge refused to take them
out of the home that judge his name was judge bapani that name may not sound familiar to people who followed the
Ramsay case but he was the judge who was put in charge of the grand jury in the ramsy case and during the
grand jury process he recused himself and left the country went to Egypt he did this out of nowhere he just came out
you know he I think he sat the grand jurors and then all of a sudden said I quit
I'm going to Egypt to teach law so there's the connection between the ballor case and
the Ramsey case with that one well and to to kind of fill in the listeners here a
little bit if if anybody's out there shaking their heads going I don't know this seems like a lot to to believe
anybody that's read John Benet inside the ramsy murder investigation by Steve Thomas who who was the detective and
onetime lead on the case the the very beginning of his book he he's a police officer he's a
detective working for Boulder for the city of Boulder and he spends the beginning of his book talking about how
outrageous and how plea deal deals were a common theme in the county courts out there in
Boulder leading up to this leading up to the murder of Jean Benet and I think uh
Stephen singular the author who wrote presumed guilty uh actually there's a part in the book
where he's interviewing detective uh Wickman and Wickman hints to something and says you know I had I was looking to
Arrest A city councilman but I I don't have the book in front of me but the paraphrase you know I was told to back
down that's what you're dealing with in Boulder so when you start building these
cases up is it really any wonder why this case isn't solved and it gets worse I mean the battle Cas is is really
horrific but these cases keep on going one for example is the Jerry Barry case right that's a child pornography case oh
AB Jerry Barry this is this is one of my favorites and he he lived relatively close to the ramsy
correct uh well he he didn't uh live really close but he he worked worked as the treasurer for First Baptist Church
okay which was pretty much down the block and across the street from St John's Episcopal the
Ramsey Church which is uh you know which is minutes away from the Ramsey home but
uh yeah Jerry Barry so he's he's the treasurer for First Baptist Church he's arrested and this was I want to say
1999 so first First Baptist used to have a program where they helped families that were down on their luck
and a woman shows up with you know with three kids three three girls and of course they're gonna help him out Jerry
Barry is gonna take a personal interest in him so he starts to uh take the kids to his house with the mother's
permission and eventually what happens is is that he starts taking pictures of him in different states of
undress now these these girls were I think four five and seven and strangely enough they had a brother and the
brother from the town they came from which escapes me at the moment the brother was in
jail for molesting his sisters that's right forgot about so these girls already went through the ringer
with their brother now the mother takes him to First Baptist Church they're going to get help and they Jerry Barry
is the one that's gonna help him and he like I said he starts taking pictures of
them in different state you know topless he shows the pictures to the mother she's fine with it so what does that
tell you the mother's okay with what he's doing and then you know the station starts in the bathtub
well I'm not going to go when the kids were so young I'm not really going to go into it right so then they make an
arrest they arrest him uh they take out film making equipment from his house uh cameras
that's how he that's how he even got arrested was he brought film to be developed and the person developing the
film back in 1999 saw what was on the camera and called the cops and that's how they arrested him so they got him
dead to rights then we're told he actually has a prior in another state for the same
thing they surmise that he is also a child uh pornographer and that's coming because I wound up getting in touch with
uh one of the officers directly involved in the case itself and that question I posed directly to the officer I said was
he involved in child pornography and they said yes we believe he was a child pornographer in the area that's what he
was doing for his own use or for to to to sell sell or trade for appar apparently both personal and and to sell
because they brought in the Postal Service to track where this where the pornography was going and to who and
that's when the investigation got shut down plea bargain of course and the office officer I was talking with when I
when I mentioned you know what what the thoughts were when the plea bargain came
down this officer said I literally fell off my chair it's a quote I mean how could you not be
shocked and that person that worked uh on that case wound up leaving I would I would too she uh yeah I think she yeah
went to the West Coast but uh yeah another plea bargain when you have the and as the the district attorney you
have the photographs and you've traced and tracked photographs in in child pornography that was sent through the US
mail and yet you're still there's no at that point there's no reason for a plea bargain you have the you have the
evidence to show the jury look how the disgusting this person is the laws that he's breaking he's not fit to live in
our society he belongs Behind Bars you're not you you wouldn't find a jury that wouldn't convict that guy and yet
you're you're letting him get a plea bargain yeah it gets more interesting once the plea bargain is handed down
Jerry Barry breaks parole well wait wait wait first who whoa before before you get to the parole yeah to to get to
Nick's point that he just made what I think happened is that they didn't want to know where who else had the
pornography that's why they shut the down pled the case out but here's the thing now remember this is
1999 this isn't 1977 this isn't Slusher times this is 1999 this is nearly three years after
the murder of John Benet Ramsey you figure you want to make an example out of these people right yeah you figure
the town has learned its lesson that they're going to be they're going to get to be hard on on pedophiles they plead
them out to house arrest no jail time lifetime probation so we're going to your sentence is to be sent and confined
to the place that you were commit committing a lot of these crimes yeah and obviously no cont no
contact with children a lifetime you know probation you know you you can you know that's it you're you're on the hook
now you know you got to watch your steps so he breaks parole he breaks it he he he he breaks the uh the probation so for
for sure they send him to jail no he doesn't go to jail then he breaks uh the probation a second time now that's
that's the one for sure they're going to send him to the slammer nope doesn't happen a third time nope doesn't happen
four times it took now it starts to get to the point where and this is what Ali gray always told me about the Ramsay
case he's like you want to get to the bottom of of what happened figure out who knew who that's how this case is
going to get solved and and you get people to talk and that's how that's how you do it he would tell me that every
almost every time we talked why did why was Jerry Barry in 1999 given especially in a short span after the
murder of John B Ramsey given that kind of treatment who was he giving pornography to who was
he selling to was that what they were afraid of that he knew names this guy was wealthy he owned 14
cars no license though and he owned a company called Berry Enterprises which was obviously a front company that
nobody could figure out even uh L Smith couldn't figure out what that company was doing act we have an idea but nobody
could pin it down and have actual proof of what that company really did so so that's the very case let's expand on
your guys's knowledge and you did a little look into the background of Alex Hunter who as we just discussed was the
person in charge and and could have put a lot of these terrible people away for a very very long time and maybe you know
uh was a little relaxed in that effort but tell us a little bit more about the background of Alex Hunter the district
attorney oh I think I said it earlier he came into office in 1972 he I I guess he thought he was a a
Real Estate Mogul back then because he he was into real estate making a bunch of
deals with with his law partner at the time who was also involved in those land deals of Bill wise and the deals went
South and he was pretty much bankrupted he owed creditors I think uh let's see he filed
for bankruptcy in 74 28 secured creditors another dozen unsecured creditors and I think he owed him $6
million this is your district attorney and this is when he first starts that's that's the beginning of
Alex Hunter and he he initially ran on a hard line against Crime when he first started and the
uh defense attorneys in the area complained that their workload was too much so they ended it
and that's when the plea bargain uh train got rolling and never stopped you know he's been he's been
married four times uh I that's pretty much it for Alex Hunter for his basic background a person to be in that
position and to be that much in debt is an obvious it's very easy to go from that to being
compromised number one and then number two here with with Alex Hunter it's he he's an office till what roughly
2000 2001 he yeah he he he tired yeah I think he stepped down in 2000 that's a long time to be in office it's like your
own little kingdom yeah you know it's he spent 28 years in office and he was he always uh
ran unopposed but what brought him down was the Ramsey case well and you're going to
have somebody out there that's going to say but Nick you know you're saying he's
letting these these these sickos plea out to Shorter sentences maybe no jail time but but he ran on a platform on
being tough on crime well my response to that would be if you if that's your argument look nobody's ever won an
election by announcing that they're going to be soft on crime so it's just it's just part of the uh packaging for
uh getting that job as far as I'm concerned yeah part of the political world that's right now what what I
thought was so much fun I I had talked to you guys a handful of times and very much enjoyed our conversations and then
I sat down and I read Steph singler's very good book presumed guilty and I had no clue that this was going to happen at
some point he starts talking about you guys and he and he he referred to it as the zel Brothers probe the zel Brothers
investigation into the Jean Benet Ramsey case as so talk about what it is that you guys set out to do in 1997 and maybe
some of the more famous individuals or people that were are very close to this case that you met and interacted with
along the way well as I had mentioned earlier in 197 in 1997 so we I mean we literally got involved in this case
almost from the beginning uh I think we started looking into it Jim what about three days after
yeah it was right away yeah the the 29th of 96 and I don't know if you want us to
mention how we got going on our I I guess we can mention it uh if we can do it quick yeah so 1996 we start
looking into it and you know to us it just it just the whole thing looked off and that's when I called my brother and
I said Jim you know maybe we should just take a look around the town you know see
if this is in our uh wheelhouse and it didn't take long just a couple of days and my brother will tell you the the
phone call that set us off on a 27e journey well before we get into 27 years originally you thought you would solve
this in how long oh well I originally told my brother I said Jim this won't take long probably a
year the mar missed it by that much beautiful but it wasn't for a lack of trying right yes yes
well so tell us about the phone call you know you're talking about the early days
of the internet right so where do you really go to get your information about a town you know you you always go to the
library you know that that that was your resource that's where the history of a town is it's Town's memory is the
library the people that work at the library know the people of the town so that's who I called I called the uh
Boulder library and I asked to speak it to someone uh and they put on put me on I don't know if it was the head
librarian it was just a librarian and I asked her a very simple question I said I'm calling in regards to this case of
this little girl I said is this the first time that's ever happened or I mean is this
usual what what happens here and you know can you give me you know what do you think happened and she said well and
this is what she said things happened to our kids here in Boulder that we don't like to talk
about and then she said to be honest with you I'm a little uncomfortable talking with you on the phone about it
so I'm gonna go and then I said hm I said okay things happen like things happen to our kids here that we don't
like to talk about that almost sounds like the from right out of the the novel Stephen King's It Right something going
on here uh with the kids and they're they're they're getting pulled and Vanishing off the streets and but but
we're so unsettled with everything that we're not we don't even discuss it yeah so that's when I called my brother I say
hey Frank you know I think we need to look at this a little further yeah and then I found a mechanic who didn't go
that far but talked about rumors of things happening the kids and then we were kind of off and running and we
formed Med our theory of the case probably Midway through January 1997 and we called it the sex ring case
and as I said earlier we do not believe that John and paty Ramsey killed their daughter not at all we believe that they
may have been they may have been involved in something that led to their daughter
being killed and then for whatever reason helped cover it up that was was our Theory and we had certain goals that we
wanted to I shouldn't call them goals we thought our if our theory was going to be
correct that certain things were going to happen and we've me and my brother have
worked other cases over the years and when you start to predict the future of the case or things that happen in the
case and you're predicting it ahead of time you're usually on the right track so we said okay sex ring
Theory you know were there sex rings in the town we found that out relatively quickly that there were sex Rings
operating in bowler in the Ramsey case we would have to find someone who would come forward and
accuse either John py or someone close to them of child sexual abuse so we started digging in Boulder now
meanwhile while we're looking for that witness and we have a and we had a plan or I had a plan for sure that if we
found the witness that would make that claim at the time I had a a place that they could stay we get them out of
Boulder I get them on the East Coast put them up that way they'd have no worries
hire private investigators to investigate their claims and then get a reporter to write an article on what the
private investigators could prove and hence put pressure on the bould the police department that was the goal to
find the witness and then lo and behold a witness comes forward but just not as we thought it
would be which would be locally in in Boulder this witness came from California and she came forward she was
under um therapeutic care she was uh and and the therapist she was seeing said yes you
know what she's saying is is valid because her claim that she was uh abused in California right what reminded her she
when when she heard about the John Benet case she was like Hey Not only was she abused the way I was abused but there
are players that are involved with her that were involved in my abuse thanks for listening thanks for
telling a friend make sure you join me back here in the garage for part two with the zel Brothers until then be good
be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause] [Music]

JonBenet: Poems & Pornography /// Part 1 /// 723 Part 1 of 3

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

JonBenet Ramsey was murdered in late 1996. Her body discovered in the basement of the Ramsey family home on December 26th, 1996. But now here we are almost twenty seven years later and this murder remains unsolved, why? That is what we will be exploring this week. This was not the perfect murder and after what you will hear this week, I think you will agree that Boulder was not the perfect town. This week we promise some in depth insider information about the “perfect people” from the “perfect town” of Boulder.

Anyone with information for the Zell brothers should email JBRTips@Gmail.com

Happy Holidays and be good, be kind, and don’t litter!

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Brief Summary

The Zel brothers discuss the John Benet Ramsey case and systemic child abuse issues in Boulder, highlighting failures in justice and law enforcement.

Key points

The Boulder Syndrome Uncovered. Experts reveal the dark history of child abuse in Boulder, calling it a syndrome.
The Ballard Case: A Horrific Abuse. The most horrific sex abuse case in Colorado history reveals systemic failures.
The Boulder Syndrome. A discussion on the repeated failures of the Boulder Police Department in handling crimes.
Jerry Barry's Disturbing Case. The case of Jerry Barry, a church treasurer arrested for child pornography, raises serious questions.
Alex Hunter's Compromised Tenure. Alex Hunter's financial troubles and plea bargains raise concerns about his effectiveness as DA.
The Sex Ring Case. The investigation leads to the theory of a sex ring involvement in the Ramsey case.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Boulder has an extremely dark side underneath the surface.

Discussing the hidden issues in Boulder.

3:06WatchDec 19, 2023

Tension

75/ 100High tension

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