Hate American Made ////// The Prophet | Forensic Files

I'm Katie Nolan and I have a new podcast called Casuals. It's a podcast for people who like sports a normal amount.
Casuals is a twice a week hang with me and my friends from across comedy, sports, and entertainment where we talk
about all the funny, weird, interesting stuff happening in and around the world of sports. So whether you're a diehard
fan or just vaguely sports curious, Casuals is the podcast for you. You can find Casuals on the SiriusXM app,
Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Give
it a try. What's the worst that could happen? Building a business may feel like a big
jump, but On deck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up
to 250,000, On Deck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business
lender, Onex's team of loan advisers can help you find the right business loan to
fit your needs. Visit on deck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may
be issued by deck or Celtic bank. On deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender
approval by an unspeakable act. The apocalypse would occur soon. More white supremacist groups, more
anti-government groups. David Caresh. Ruby Ridge siege. Timothy McVey. More than 80 people dead. Bombed
a federal building in Oklahoma City. Eight by an unspeakable act. There is so little hope left. Hello. Hello. Yeah.
This Lieutenant Lynch may help you. Yeah. There 75 men around our building and they're shooting at us in Mount
Carmel. Mount Carmel? Yeah. Tell them there children and women in here and to call it off. Try. All right. Uh,
hello. I hear gunfire. Oh [ __ ] Hello. Who is this? Hello. Who is this? Hello. Yeah, this Lynch. Hey, Lynch.
Yeah, that's a kind of a funny name there. Oh, listen. No, now who am I speaking with? This is David Caresh.
Okay, David. Notorious. What' you guys do that for? Well, Dave, what this what I'm doing is
I'm trying to establish some community communication links with you. No, no, no, no. Let me tell you something. Yes,
sir. You see, you brought a bunch of guys out here and you killed some of my children. We told you we wanted to talk.
No. How come you guys try to be ATF agents? How come you try to be so big all the time? Okay, there's a bunch of
us dead. There's a bunch of you guys dead. Now, now that's your fault. [Music] the branch dividians. To talk about this
Christian group known as the branch dividians, we first need to introduce the 7th Day Adventist Church. The 7th
Day Adventist Church is a religious group. It's a Protestant Christian denomination which is distinguished by
its observance of Saturday, the seventh day of the week in the Christian and Hebrew calendar as the Sabbath. Its
emphasis on the eminent second coming of Jesus Christ and the end of days. The branch devidians is a fringe offshoot of
the 7th day Adventist church. The branch devidians emerged from the Devidian 7th
Day community. A guy named Benjamin Rhoden established the branch devidians in 1955. This is a group that are known for
their apocalyptic beliefs and then in the 1990s known for their leader a one Mr. David Caresh. The branch of
Devidians believed in the imminent end of the world and identified the American government as the lamblike beast of the
book of Revelation. Now, much of the Bible is open to interpretation. But with some understanding, the second
beast that appears in Revelation poses as a lamb. Someone who may present himself as a Messiah, but actually is a
false messiah whose speech and talk is satanic in nature. Then I saw a second beast coming out of the earth. It had
two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. It exercised all the authority of the
first beast on its behalf and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first
beast whose fatal wound had been healed. And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from
heaven to the earth in full view of the people. because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the
first beast. It deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up
an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. The second beast was given power to give
breath to the image of the first beast so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to
be killed. It also forced all people great and small, rich and poor, free and slave
to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads so that they could not buy or
sell unless they had the mark. which is the name of the beast or the number of its
name. This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast for it
is the number of man. That number is 666. In the 1980s, David Caresh became the leader of the branch
dividians. As the head of the branch devidians, Caresh claimed to be its final prophet. His apocalyptic Bible
teachings, prophecies, including interpretations of the book of Revelation, the seven seals, and the end
of days attracted various followers. The group lived at the Mount Carmel Center,
which was a large property near Waco, Texas. And the Devidians had their own flag. The flag depicted a sixwinged
serpent and a star which resembled a star of David when viewed from afar flying over top of the seven
seals. David Caresh was born in Houston, Texas on August 17th, 1959. His parents were young and not
married. I would describe his upbringing as dysfunctional and David Caresh was not his birth name. He was born Vernon
Wayne How. Wonder why he changed it. You know what I mean, Vern? His mother was 14-year-old Bonnie Sue Clark and his dad
was 20-year-old Bobby Wayne How. And some details of Caresha's early life vary among the different sources that
are out there. Just like Jesus Christ himself, not much of his childhood is known. After 2 years, his parents split
up. Eventually, little Vernon would go to live with grandma. his mother's mom and she will briefly raise him as her
own to the point of it was implied that she was actually his mother and they gave off this appearance especially
within the confines of most company. So when his mother Bonnie his actual mother
Bonnie would come and visit, she would pretend to be an aunt. I mean of course that's strange. We've heard of those
types of scenarios before, but it this seems a little odd and a little more a skew to me because you would think that
Bonnie would when she's around that she would just pretend to be the older sister rather than an aunt, which means
she's the sister of her own mother. Well, Bobby Wayne, his father, at 20 years old, why would he be interested in
a 14-year-old? It's just a little strange. When he was about 5 years old, he did go back to living with his real
mother and her new husband. And this was after being brought up to speed on things, right? Learning the truth about
all of the family's secrets and who his real mother was. Caresh would later say that it was around this time that a male
relative started molesting him. Caresh described his childhood as lonely, struggling with poor study skills and
dyslexia. Which led him to being placed in special education classes. Some of his troubles learning actually came from
poor eyesight. He had quite poor eyesight when he was little. He was pretty horribly bullied as well by the
other boys at school. He was called horrible names and had longrunning horrible nicknames, some that are so
offensive that I don't feel comfortable repeating any of them. Some of the bullying was sexual in nature. There was
sexual assault according to Caresh and some others with some reports stating that he was gang raped by some older
boys when he was just a small boy. Yeah, look what you did you bullies. You turned this kid into a pedophile with a
messiah complex. But then he started to grow up and he he got good at sports which was a huge transformation for him
for and for his childhood. His interest in sports and physical development brought him some
improvements, but he still dropped out of Garland High School. Anyway, in his junior year, as we said, David Caresh
wasn't great at school, and he wasn't great at work either. He tried various jobs, but was either fired or would
eventually quit them. At the age of 19, he had a sexual relationship with a 16-year-old girl who became pregnant.
The teenage mother thought that David Caresh was unfit to be the father of the kid, so she moved away and refused to
see him again. And thus he never saw this baby which was his first born. It was his daughter. Well, obviously he's
going to have a lot of confidence issues when you have this weird situation. You
have a young mother, so she's not able to take care of you. You're passed off to your grandmother and then you find
out that, well, now that my mother is in a better situation, she's going to go surprise, I'm actually your mother. So
this I think would lend itself to some confidence issues and maybe a lot of other issues especially if a child
doesn't feel safe. Yeah. And his him feeling safe is complicated by the fact that he was bullied because of his
learning disabilities when he was a kid. And some of that too, I know that bullying still goes on today and it's
it's unfortunate and something that we are doing better about policing within our schools and it's carried on and
migrated a bit online quite heavily online especially for a lot of these these poor kids that get bullied over
the internet and over social media. But I think I hope there's a big part of me that hopes that the bullying that he
experienced was somewhat a sign of the times or or more so a sign of the times than it would be today based off of his
say I think it'd actually be harsher online because I would assume that there would be a percentage of kids that
wouldn't say it to your face and so be a lot easier either to text or or type to
a kid. So, I can imagine growing up in these times. Yeah, harsh online, but gang rape is pretty pretty harsh. Pretty
pretty downright harsh. Yeah, but I was speaking in general. Maybe you should pay attention. Thank you. This is so
around the same time, right, David Caresh, he's going through a lot of changes. this this 16-year-old girl who
he got pregnant. She moves away, refuses to let him be a part of her life and thus he doesn't get to see his his
daughter. I don't know how involved he would have been. Anyway, it's it's too tough to say. I took a a lot of looks at
this part and this portion of his early life and it's difficult to say if he would have stepped up and been or
attempted to be a legit father. But regardless, he didn't get the opportunity to do that. Now, but he does
start to pull some things together here, Captain. This is when he became a bornagain Christian and wanted to kind
of change his ways. He became born again in the Southern Baptist Church and he later joins his mother's denomination
and she is a member of the 7th Day Adventist Church. He's 20 years old at this point. Now he starts up a
relationship with the pastor's 15-year-old daughter. That's bizarre. This is not something that the
pastor approved of. But Caresh wanted to marry the girl. And so he prayed to God
for answers and guidance on the matter. Or at least he says that he prayed to God for answers and guidance on the
matter. And so as this story goes here, Captain Caresh allegedly during this time of praying for
guidance, he opens his eyes only to find his Bible sitting there in the open position. It was previously closed when
it before he closed his eyes. He opens his eyes and his Bible is open to Isaiah 34:16 which reads, "Look in the scroll
of the Lord and read." None of these will be missing. Not one will lack her mate, for it is his mouth that has given
the order, and his spirit will gather them together." So with his Bible in hand, he approached
the pastor and explained the open Bible story to him, proclaiming this to be a sign from God, that it was God that
wanted him to have the pastor's daughter for a wife. The pastor wasn't so easily
fooled. He dismissed the suggestion out of hand and forbade Caresh from ever seeing his daughter again. Well, good
for him cuz I would have said, "Hey, want to be Jesus boy? How about you pray to God so you don't be a pedophile? You
freaking creep." But Caresh was like, "TLC T-Boss." So, he creeped. Yeah, just keep it on the download. Nobody's
supposed to know. But Caresh gets caught and they get found out and this gets him
expelled from the church and from the congregation as a whole. Well, when you're looking for signs, you're going
to find one. Well, I I'll go and say this. This is completely absurd. Okay, I'm not saying that he didn't open his
eyes and his Bible was suddenly open. I Let's pretend that that happened for a moment. But the reason why it is absurd,
think about a Bible. Think of how short that portion of the scripture is. Isaiah
34:16. It's a whole three sentences. So I what I'm pointing out here is how would
anybody be able to look at an open Bible that is two pages long appearing to be two pages in front of your face and go,
"Oh, that's the one. Out of these two pages, here's the three sentences that God is trying to tell to me that that
wants me he wants me to read these three sentences." Yeah. Chances are he was sitting in the corner holding his his
Bible in one hand and pulling on his pee pee in the other and uh this vision came
to him of this uh 15year-old girl and he said, "Oh, well, there's there's my sign." Even if even if it's one of those
tiny little Bibles with maybe you only have a reading on on each page, who is he to decide which of the two pages he's
supposed to read or or that is supposed to be the message? So, I mean, it's completely But he's the prophet.
Backwards as hell. And I'm sure that look, the pastor probably didn't need to see through that portion of the story.
He just likely didn't want this man being with his 15year-old daughter or handing over his 15-year-old daughter to
this grown man. And I'm not trying to justify anything that David did. But when you come from a situation where
your father is 20, your mother is 14 when they have you. So that seems like a little more normaly for you to be into
somebody younger. But also anybody that is sexually abused or physically abused or they have some kind of traumatic
thing that happens to them when they're younger, they normally are attracted to people of the same age of when that
abuse happened to them, if that makes any sense. So now we're at the summer of 1981 on our timeline here and Caresha's
next move was to go out to Waco, Texas. remember he's just been excommunicated from the church and congregation. Yeah.
So this is where and when he joins this other group, the branch dividians. So the summer of
1981, he goes out to Waco, Texas, where he joined the branch devidians. Benjamin
Rhoden, who had originated the branch group in 1955, died in 1978. So by the time that Caresh gets there, the
founder, if you will, of the branch devidians, Benjamin Rhoden, has recently passed away about 3 years prior. In
1983, Caresh began claiming the gift of prophecy. Around this time, Caresh began
a sexual relationship with Lois Rhoden. She's the widow of Benjamin Rhoden and she's the current leader of the sect of
the branch devidians. Lois is 67 years old at this time. So David Caresh was a man who
clearly had issues with having age appropriate relationships. Well, he's going to sleep his way to the top.
Exactly. That's what the captain did. Caresh eventually became slept my way to the bottom.
Yeah. reverse order. Caresh eventually began to claim that God had chosen him to father a child by Lois, who the child
would be the chosen one. This is this is a really interesting and integral part of the
story here that I that I don't think many people know about, right? because because of her
age. Not only is she the leader and like you pointed out, he's this is a strong attempt by him to create this this
relationship with the leader that nobody else in the group will have and and if he's a good boy, he'll probably get
favoritism from the leader and sleep his way to the top. But on top of that, he devises this plan once it's once they're
outed because they kind of keep this relationship secret from from the group once they're this relationship is
discovered. Caresh turns it into this whole thing of like, well, it's okay. We're meant to be together. Had another
vision touching his pee pee. Not only that, proof of that is I She's pregnant. Are you pregnant? I'm no doctor here,
but a 67year-old, 68-year-old woman getting pregnant would seem like a bit of a miracle to me. Not when you have a
prophet's penis. And so what he's telling the group is that look, I'm not I'm I'm more than a man. Yeah. From the
prophet Britney Spears. I'm I'm not a girl, not yet a woman. And and I'm I'm closer to God and more involved with God
than any of you. And proof of that is I was able to impregnate this old woman, this older woman. And it's it's God's
will. God wanted this to be done. So he he's using this whole thing to separate himself, elevate himself from the rest
of the group, and eventually take over as the leader of the Devidians. And we haven't got to that point yet.
But meanwhile, this is these are all lies obviously that Lois was not pregnant with David Caresh's child. Well, one of
the things that I thought was interesting when looking into this whole Waco situation is it seems like this is
the start of more radical ideas coming from David. And at this point, I don't I don't even believe that he's going by
David, right? I think he's still Vern. It's It seems like his initial teachings were positive, peace, love, a little
more hippity dippity, and then it starts changing into this end times uh prophecy. I'm the chosen one or I'm
supposed to uh give, you know, I'm supposed to u impregnate somebody so they have the chosen one. It seems like
these ideas start shifting a little bit. It's around this time that Lois Rhoden allowed David Caresh to begin teaching
his own message to the Dividians, the Branch Devidians. And his message at was called the serpent's root, which caused
controversy within the group. Lois's son, George Rhoden, was intended to be the group's next leader after Lois. But
as you can see, Caresh is doing one hell of a job to wedge himself in the middle
of the mother and son that were running the show so that he himself could jump rank and become the branch Devidian
leader. You're right, Captain. He's still going by Vern at this point or Vernon.
how it was in 1990 that he filed a petition with the state of California to legally change his name and you have to
give a reason for that and he stated that it was for publicity and business purposes and wanted to change his name
to David Caresh. His first name David symbolized a a direct connection to the biblical king David from whom a new
messiah would descend. Then we have Kesh which is a biblical name of s Cyrus the great a Persian king who is
named a messiah for freeing Jews during Babylonian captivity. So by taking the name David Caresh, he
is according to online reports professing himself to be the spiritual descendant of King David. And of course
David Caresh, David would make sense as well as this group is called is is known
as the branch devidians. [Music] This message is sponsored by Greenlight. Who taught you about money? Was it your
parents? Your school? Let's be honest. Most of us learned about saving and budgeting way later than we should have.
But there's good news. You can give your kids a head start with Greenlight. Greenlight is a debit card and money app
made for families that lets kids learn how to save, invest, and spend wisely. Parents can send money to their kids and
keep an eye on kids spending and saving. The Greenlight app even includes a chores feature where you can set up
one-time or reoccurring chores customized to your household and reward kids with an allowance for a job well
done. I have some friends that are using this wonderful Greenlight app and the debit card to teach one of their
children about responsibility. The kid wanted their own cell phone. Well, that has to come with a service plan. And so
the parents worked out a deal with their child. If you are good, if you do your chores, if you listen to mom and dad, if
you get good grades and don't give your teachers any of the business, that you can have your own cell phone as long as
you can pay the monthly cell phone plan. And that child, that kid, he's paying that monthly plan with his Greenlight
app, with the Greenlight debit card. As long as he's good, money gets put in there so he can keep and use that cell
phone. This is just one great way, one perfect example of how the Green Light app will work for you to teach your
children about wise spending and wise saving and being responsible. Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at
greenlight.com/g. That's greenlight.com/g to get started. greenlight.com/g. You all know what speed dating is,
right? Well, if you're the owner of a growing business, what if there was a feature like speed dating only for
hiring? In other words, you could meet several interested, qualified candidates at once, all at a designated time. Well,
there's good news because there is such a service. It's called Zip Intro from Zip Recruiter. You can post your job
today and start talking to qualified candidates tomorrow. Zip Intro gives you the power to quickly assess excellent
candidates for your job via back-to back video calls. You simply pick a time and
Zip Intro does all of the work of finding and scheduling qualified candidates for you. Then you can choose
who you want to talk to and meet with great people as soon as the next day. It's so easy. Enjoy the benefits of
speed hiring with new Zip Intro only from Zip Recruiter, rated number one hiring site based on G2. Try Zip Intro
for free at ziprecruiter.com/g. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com/g. Zip Intro. Post jobs
today, talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. Do you say data or data? However you say it, it's time to stop
overpaying for your monthly data plan with Mint Mobile. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium
wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high-speed data or data, your choice,
and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. I love
Mint Mobile. I'm getting the same high-speed data and data that I was getting with my old service provider.
Plus, I'm getting unlimited talk and text delivered on this great 5G network. It's everything that I was paying a lot
more for in the past at a fraction of the price. Currently, I'm saving almost $20 a month with Mint Mobile. No matter
how you say it, don't overpay for it. Shop data plans at mintmobile.com/tcg. That's
mintmobile.com/tcg. Upfront payment of $45 for three months. 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New
customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile for
details. Check out mintmobile.com/tcg today. True Crime Garage is sponsored by Row. Want the
fastest working GLP1 for half the list price? Row's got you. Row now offers FDA approved weight loss vials for half the
list price of auto injector pins without applying insurance or savings cards. And
with results you can see faster. Your ROW affiliated provider can help you understand if GLP1s are right for you
and your goals. But that's just the beginning. Row members have support throughout the process. Plus, you can
sign up online from the comfort of your own home. That means no waiting for an in-person doctor's appointment, no
commute to the doctor's office, and no waiting rooms. Weight loss faster, confidence higher, price cheaper. Join
the over 385,000 people who have already chosen ROW to access GLP1s. Go to row.co/g to see if you qualify. That's
ro.co/g. Go to row.co/safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP1
medications, medication indicated with diet and exercise. Check out road.co/g co/g
today. All right, we are back. Cheers, mates, to the windows, to the walls. Cheers to you, Colonel. Cheers to you,
Captain. Body of Christ, cans in the air. Blood of Christ. Now, this is around the time that David
Caresh is going to say that he's going to get some more instructions directly from the lips of God. So, this is when
he announced to the group that God had instructed him to marry a God's just all up in his sex life. Woman named Rachel
Jones. And I I hesitated there because I I don't know I didn't list here in my notes how old she was her age at the
time of this announcement. But they do get married. Yeah, they do get married and she is
technically through the rest of our story and the rest of David Caresh's life she will be his legal wife. Now
remember George Rhoden, the son of Lois, who was going to take over control of the branch
devidians after his mother was no longer in power. We have George Rhoden and David Caresh. They're essentially at
this time battling for control of this sect. Now there's a large fire that did over $500,000 worth of damage to the
compound and the property. It's mysteriously a mysterious arson, let's say. And by somebody in the church.
Yeah. George Rhoden said that David Caresh started the fire. So, you can see where they're they're starting to try to
push and pull and get people get the majority to choose a side so that that person that individual could go on to
become the the new leader. So, George Rhoden says David Caresh started this fire. He's to blame for the fire. He did
all this damage to us. He doesn't love us. He doesn't love you. But Caresh in response to this says, "No man set that
fire." That was a judgment of God. It was an act of God. So George Rhoden had the support of
the majority of the group at this time and he decided to force Caresh and his small group of followers off of the
property. And they didn't do this peacefully. They did this at gunpoint. Caresh and his 25 followers were forced
off of Mount Carmel's compound and large property and they went and set up camp in Palestine, Texas, where they lived in
very rough conditions. Think about they're pretty much camping out long term. They're living in buses and tents
for the next two years. Lois Rhoden died in 1986. In 1987, George Rhoden exumed a
body from their from the group's community cemetery. Rhden said that he was just
moving the cemetery. That that does happen. And in fact, the the cemetery closest to my home was moved in the
1970s and it was almost 2,000 grave sites that were moved. What I would do is just buy a giant boom box, turn on
Thriller, and lead the dance parade to the new new location. Let them do the work for you. Yeah. And be entertained
in the process. That's brilliant. Work smarter, not harder. George Rhoden exumed this
body, or at least Caresh claims so. And Rhoden says, "No big deal. You know, I'm
in charge of the properties here. I'm I'm moving this grave site. I'm I'm I'm going to be moving the cemetery, the
entire cemetery. I don't know the size of this cemetery. I'm guessing it's rather small. David Caresh has got an
answer for this, too. So, he claims that no, George Rhoden is not moving the cemetery. George Rhoden had actually
issued a challenge to David Caresh and to and and to the followers who could resurrect the body, right? Who could
resurrect the body would then prove who the leader should be because that's the powerful one. That's
the one that is doing God's will. And so whoever resurrected the the body would become the new leader or this as David
Caresh is explaining and telling to the the the other followers. And Caresh even
takes this to the local authorities. He goes to the sheriff's office to file charges against George Rhoden for
illegally exuming a corpse. Yeah. The sheriff's like, "Hey, no problem. Just come back here. We need some proof,
right? We can't just go and arrest this guy and charge him with something. We need some evidence to back up your
claims that he committed this crime. So Caresh and a posi of about seven armed cares devidians went to the Mount Carmel
Center attempting to get a photograph of the body of the exumed body. But George
Rhoden wasn't dumb. He believed that Caresh would pull some [ __ ] So Rhoden now by himself gets the jump on
Caressian company and a gunfight breaks out. By the time the sheriff and the deputies respond to this gunfight,
George Rhoden had already suffered a gunshot wound and was pinned down behind a behind a tree. They had him
surrounded. He couldn't come out. As a result of this incident, David Caresh and his followers were charged with
attempted murder of George Rhoden. Now, at the trial, Caresh explained that he went to Mount Carmel to uncover evidence
of a of criminal disturbance of a corpse of a crime committed by this George Rhoden, the one he's accused of
attempting murder on, right? Caresh's followers were acquitted and the David Caresh portion
of the case and trial, it ends in a mistrial. So, a mistrial was declared. No real
outcome there. Nobody gets in trouble. In 1989, Rhoden, George Rhoden, murdered a
man named Wayman Dale Adair with an axe. This guy's a loser. This is after he says Adair stated his belief that he
himself was the true Messiah. Well, and think about how crazy this is. You have a very small group of people basically
worshiping and studying a small group of uh or a small section of Christianity, picking and
choosing what they preach. And within this group, you have all these individuals jockeying for position,
right? So, you have multiple male individuals basically claiming that they're the chosen one. Well, and I tell
you what, this portion of the story is so it's often not told. No. And what what
is what I'm taken aback by here is that you once you start factoring all these things in let's okay
so we have this this battle this infighting that's going on within these branch dividians and a lot of it had there
never been the Waco standoff and siege I don't know that anybody would know about
the all these going on here. No. And and it's kind of sad though, too, because they we we know this event
as Waco, Texas. Oh, remember Waco? This is poor Waco. This is outside of Waco. This is not in the city limits
of Waco, but they've been painted with this brush because they were kind of out there on their own. If
these Yahoos would have just killed each other off, we wouldn't have known any of this
story. They were awfully close to doing so on it appears would appear to be several occasions. But yeah, so you have
all this infighting. Now, let's compound that with all the guns, the gunfights, the digging up of a body, attempted
murder, the fighting for power, the attempted murder. This is like, and it's all happening in Texas. It's like the
wild west of church. John Wayne meets Jesus Christ superstar. So after George Rhoden
murdered this other man with an axe, this is after this man stated that he was the true messiah. George Rhoden's
defense was that the man was sent by David Caresh to kill him. So he was just simply defending himself. And that's a
good possibility. I mean, we have to remember Dave Caresh was on trial for attempted murder of Rhoden.
He gets off on a mistrial. Not much after that, a man that is now claiming to be the Messiah
himself is coming after you. It's plausible that Rhoden was telling the truth that this man this man
was sent to him by David Caresh. Very likely. It it would stand to reason because it goes along with a lot of this
the other items that we covered so far leading up to this portion of the timeline. Ultimately, George Rhoden was
deemed to be insane by the courts. So, he ends up being sent away to a psychiatric
hospital. And this will allow David Caresh and his group with a lot of the the the downward spiral of George
Rhoden, Rhoden was losing followers, right? And they were all starting to go to David Caresh who were living in tents
and buses outside of Waco, not even at Mount Carmel, but with George Rhoden gone. And Rhoden wasn't paying the taxes
on the property on the Mount Carmel property. Well, he probably didn't believe that he had to. Yeah. And I
don't know what type of income was being generated by Rhoden or his followers at
the time because regardless of of your beliefs, if you live here in this country anyway, and you own land, you're
going to have to pay taxes on that land, right? Eventually, what takes place, Caresh and his group, which is almost
everybody now by this point, plus Caresh has picked up some additional followers
in the meantime, they're able to pull together their funds and purchase the property, the Mount Carmel property,
because of all the the it defaulting on the taxes. I was thinking about this. I actually think this is actually a
important part of the story in the sense of we have this group that probably most
of the locals are not paying attention to. They know that they're there. They know that they have maybe some strange
religious beliefs or teachings, but you have this property that nobody's paying taxes on. So when they get rid of Roden
and they actually pay the taxes, you would think that the locals would be going, "Well, they paid their taxes,
they now own the land." And then on top of that, they find some, and I don't know if it was confirmed or not to be a
meth lab, but there's some people that were renting stuff off a rodent. And so then Dave Caresh goes to the authorities
and says, "Hey, there's this drug lab or meth lab. Can you have it removed?" So now, if you're the locals, you're
probably thinking, "Well, at least this religious compound is changing for the better." Well, yeah. And this this
ultimately, and this is something that's not really discussed or talked about, but the the local authorities had no
problem with David Caresh or his or the branch Devidians. And part of that was because George Rhoden was deemed to be
wrong, right? even though they're they're breaking laws and fighting each other, right? But ultimately he gets
sent away to the mental hospital. And so in the eyes of everybody in the community in in the county, uh Jefferson
County, they all believe, well, it was George Rhoden who was the crazy one and who was wrong and maybe even his mother
as well. So whatever problem they had with the branch devidians, the local authorities that the the slate gets
wiped clean when the rodents are no longer around. This act like you said of this meth lab. So these people that were
renting from from rodent when cares gets back there, they they stumble on this meth lab and they
do, as you said, report it to the local authorities that go in and shut it down and clean everything up. And this is
ultimately deemed to be an act of good faith by the branch devidians to the local authorities where now the local
authorities are going okay well clearly the rodents were the problem if there you know and so we we can get along with
and we don't mind these branch devidians being here. They are they're reporting things that are illegal. And that's kind
of how things were at the local level for quite some time now. That's going to start to
change because where we left off with the Caresh and his crew coming back to Mount Carmel, that's around 1989. And it
actually wasn't until the following year when Caresh changed his name from Vernon
How to David Caresh. Old Vern, you know what I mean? Vern. But we start to have some problems, right? So there's there's
some rumors going on and part of this is still some additional infighting. So there were there were branch devidians
that were no longer part of the group that that when Rhoden was removed uh and when the rodents went away that they
left the group and those persons were coming out and going to local authorities with complaints about David
Caresh specifically and saying that he's having sex with underage girls that are
members of the that church and that they are stockpiling weapons And there's truth in these
allegations. There's also there's also reason to kind of hit the brakes on some of these allegations
as well. It's again some of the there's truth in some of these allegations, but some of
these allegations are just purely come about because of bad blood where somebody who was no longer part of the
community, no longer part of the branch devidians decided they didn't like David
Caresh and they were going to go and tattle on him. And it's it gets very dicey to say what allegations were true
and what allegations were completely made up. But they were stockpiling weapons. But part of that
was their income that they were generating. Part of their income that they were generating is think of think
of like a a a guy that owns a comic shop or or a baseball card shop. They're buying guns and then hoping to sell them
later at an increased price to make a profit. Now, they do believe in end times, not only end times, they believe
that they're eminent, that they are closer, that they are close. And so, part of the stockpiling of weapons is to
stockpile weapons, but part of it too is to generate some form of income. Well, one of their main focuses as part of
their religious studies and beliefs and sermons, a lot of this was just based around the book of Revelations. And the
thing here though is it's Texas. You're allowed to own guns. But the claim is that they are
they are in possession of a bunch of illegal weapons. And then of course the claims
that he is sexually abusing the children or some of the children within this group of the branch dividians. Well, I I
also believe there's claims of physical abuse to some of the children as well. Correct. So this is going to morph
itself into what us the general population know to be of Waco. and and when we think of
Waco, what we remember and what we've heard and seen over the years, those are the that's a very
general telling of what led up to February 1993. So on Sunday, February 28th, 1993,
agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, they are going to attempt to
execute a an arrest and search warrants against David Caresh and the branch Devidian compound. The way this story
goes, Captain, is that this was supposed to be an easily executed warrant. The ATF wanted to see what they could find
within the walls of the compound, i.e. weapons, firearms. They also wanted to learn what was actually going on inside
those four walls. Was there any kind of abuse by David Caresh or any of the other adults in the group, right? They
wanted to video, they wanted video documentation of the intrusion for documentation purposes.
And then many suspect after the fact that they wanted to videotape this for the purpose of of sending out to the
media because keep in mind this is 1993. The ATF and the FBI, the US Marshalss just had the horrific standoff
the year prior at Ruby Ridge. And now we all know how that went down. So, a lot of people point to this and say this
February 28th execution of this arrest and search warrant was to be a way for them to clean that up, to clean up that
mess and say, "Look, no, this is what we do. This is this is how we are handling
things now. This is to save face a bit. And we're going to go in there. We're going to do it nice and clean. Nobody's
going to get hurt. We're going to uphold the law. We're going to find, detect, and see if there are any illegal
activities. And if there are, we are going to bring those persons to justice, and we're going to shut down this
operation quick and easy, nice and clean. The problem here, though, that we should point out, part of this is to for
them to go in and and detect potential signs of child abuse, sexual or physical abuse or what have
you. The ATF does a lot of things, but they they're not in charge of that. That's not those are not crimes that
they are to be investigating. They hold no jurisdiction over those type of crimes. So, it befuddles me how that
worked its way into the search warrant in the first place. A judge had to sign off on that. Well, they have an
undercover agent that's made their way into the group, so they're getting reports from him, but they absolutely
have jurisdiction and have power if in fact the branch devidians are housing per purchasing and selling
illegal weapons. But there's a couple other things that are happening here, too, cuz the ATF is in contact with some
ex members of David's clan, if you will. So they are warning against the idea that this serving and the search warrant
is going to go as easy as they believe because they're trying to explain to the ATF and other law enforcement that this
is kind of what David preaches about. you might just uh spark, you know, ignite things into motion that we don't
even know are prophecies that are in David's head. And that's exactly right. They
again this is a group that that believes in the teachings of end times of the apocalypse and that they will ultimately
everybody will then be judged and some people will go to heaven in the arms of the Lord and the the the truly wrong
people who is as this group would believe is the majority of mankind. mind would go elsewhere,
would go would go to hell. In fact, I believe that that part of their belief system is they're a I don't know if they
refer to it as purgatory. I know the Catholics do, but they are a big believer in purgatory or a place similar
to purgatory where you go and even even after you have passed, after you have died, you would go there and and wait
until the actual end times come and judgment comes for all before you can ascend to heaven or descend to hell. And
so, you're exactly right, Captain. That is what the authorities need to be informed of and be concerned of because
they're taught that the end times are near and they may very likely come in they could come in any form or fashion
truly. But there's a possibility that one of those forms that could lead to the to the apocalypse w could be your
own government. your own government coming after you for your religious [Music] beliefs. So much more to get to on the
Siege at Waco. Check out true crimegar.com. Go to the store page. We got a promo code Easter25 for 25% off.
Join us back here in the garage. And until then, be good, be kind, and don't witter.
[Music] Hey everybody, it's Rob Low here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's
called Literally with Roblo. And basically, it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're
pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire
like Aaron Sorcin or Tiffany Hattish, Deme Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every
Thursday. So, subscribe please and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Hate American Made ////// The Prophet

Part 3 of 6

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

In 1983 David Koresh formally Vernon Wayne Howell claimed to possess the power of prophecy. This would spearhead his accent to leadership of a Texas religious group known as the Branch Davidians. The Branch Davidians were a splinter group of the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists. Koresh prophesied that his martyrdom would take place in the United States.

Thanks for listening, thanks for telling a friend.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com (https://pcm.adswizz.com) for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Brief Summary

The episode details the Branch Davidians' history, David Koresh's rise, and the events leading to the Waco siege.

Key points

The Branch Davidians' Beliefs. Exploring the apocalyptic beliefs of the Branch Davidians and their leader, David Caresh.
Caresh's Troubled Childhood. David Caresh's early life was marked by dysfunction and trauma, shaping his future.
The Absurdity of Caresh's Claims. Caresh's justification for his relationship with the pastor's daughter raises eyebrows.
Caresh's Name Change. In 1990, Caresh legally changed his name for publicity and business purposes.
David Caresh's Claim to Messiahship. David Caresh professes to be a spiritual descendant of King David, stirring controversy.
The Battle for Control. George Rhoden and David Caresh vie for leadership of the branch Davidian sect, leading to violence.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

You brought a bunch of guys out here and you killed some of my children.

David Caresh confronts authorities during a tense standoff.

2:24WatchApr 9, 2025

Tension

75/ 100High tension

More from True Crime Garage TV

Solve the Crime

Read a real case one clue at a time, then see how your call held up against the investigators.