Idaho College Murders ////// 634 | Forensic Files

[Music] thank you [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] it's been more than three weeks since
the murders of four University of Idaho students and police are starting to receive toxicology reports on the
victim's hair fibers blood and DNA according to law enforcement all considered critical evidence from the
crime scene the case remains unsolved police still have not found a murder weapon or named a suspect but
investigators saying today they are trying to provide information while protecting the Integrity of the
investigation saying in a statement we firmly believe speculation and unvetted information is a disservice to the
victims their families and our community the stabbing deaths of these four students has created turmoil at the
University and in the quiet community of Moscow that hasn't recorded a single murder since 2015.
[Music] thank you less than one month ago in Idaho on Sunday November 13th for University of
Idaho students were killed in an off-campus house that same morning at 11 58 a.m someone called 9-1-1 and reported
an unconscious person Moscow Police Department responded and located four victims two on the second
floor of the home and two on the third floor the 9-1-1 call came from inside the home where the victims were killed
using a survivor's cell phone an autopsy was conducted and confirmed the identity
of the four victims there's one male victim and three female victims forgive me please if I mispronounce any of the
victims names as I am going off of the Moscow police press conference pronunciations the victims were
identified as Ethan Chapin a 20-year-old freshman from Conway Washington we also
have Madison Mogan a 21 year old senior from Coeur d'Alene Idaho we have Kaylee Gonzalez age 21 also a senior from
Rathdrum Idaho and we have Zana carnodel a junior she was 20 years of age and from Post Falls Idaho and like you said
there's four victims but there's six individuals that live in the house yes it's a little tricky on the details
about the home itself and as it's reported there were six people in total at the home during the times of the
attack it's been reported that six people possibly live in the home now of the four victims not all of them were
people that actually lived in the home according to the limited information release regarding the autopsies all four
victims were stabbed to death all four victims are believed to have been asleep when the attacks started some of the
victims had defensive wounds there were no signs of sexual assault in regards to
the home where the victims were found this is a rental house just off campus the three women victims were renters and
roommates at the home Ethan Chapin the lone male victim was Zana karnodel's boyfriend and he was staying the night
when the four were killed and as you pointed out Captain we have two surviving roommates the two other
roommates were present that night when the victims were killed they lived at the rental house with Madison Kaylee and
Zanna and I believe their initial claims were that they were asleep during the attacks that morning when one of the
victims was discovered to be unconscious by one or both of the surviving roommates they called a third party so
someone or someone's from outside of the home then comes through the home and shortly afterward a call to 9-1-1 is
placed it has been reported that the call initially came from someone not a roommate of the victims but someone
using a roommate's cell phone police have released very little details about this 911 call one detail is that the 911
operator spoke to several persons that morning and again the call came from one of the roommates cell phones yeah
initially there was some speculation that the 9-1-1 call came from the actual killer but I don't actually believe that
that that is the case yes that was one of the questions that was asked of the Moscow police department at the press
conference and that was quickly shot down so it was asked did the call come from the Killer
and they said no the plain and simple no the call did not come from the killer from what it looks like to me Captain is
that somebody responds to this call a civilian responds to this call for help comes over to help and may have brought
a person or two with them or in the course of trying to help an additional person or two arrives it sounds like
there were multiple people that were in the home when police arrive on scene then unfortunately they discover two
victims having been killed on the second floor of the home and then two additional victims that were killed on
the third floor of the home it's been reported that all four victims were members of fraternities and sororities
Ethan Chapin was a triplet his brother Hunter and his sister maze are also University of Idaho students Ethan was a
member of the Sigma Chi Fraternity according to the university Zana karnodel was a junior majoring in
marketing and a member of the pi Beta Phi sorority Madison Mogan was a senior also majoring in marketing who belonged
to Pi Beta Phi and Kaylee Gonzalez was a senior majoring in General Studies and a
member of the Alpha Phi sorority this according to the university the killings have shaken Moscow and Idaho Panhandle
town of 25 000 residents this city has not had a homicide in about five years leading up
to the events of November 13th of this year for those not familiar with the area
the college town is located about 80 miles south of Spokane Washington the university is just a few minutes drive
from the Washington Idaho state border I was looking at this the other day captain and it looks like maybe a five
minute drive from the campus area to the Border you go west past the Applebee's and then very quickly you are in the
great state of Washington yeah I know they suspended classes for a little bit and then then continued classes but I
think it was during the Thanksgiving week you know when they're only in school for a couple days where a lot of
students weren't going to class in the University said well you don't have to attend class but you can attend online
and I just thought it's a three-day week this is a this is a mass murder just shut down school for a few days and just
let these kids go home and feel safe because at that time and and maybe still to this date we don't have a very good
idea of who this killer is that's exactly right so the Moscow police chief his name is James fry he
has reminded us almost daily that they have not identified a suspect or found the murder weapon what you're talking
about leads to what I find to be something that seems to be highly debated not just online but more
importantly on the campus itself where the general public keeps asking the police for clarification
is there a threat to the community here right so on November 15th this is two days after the murders the Moscow police
say they preliminarily believe this was an isolated targeted attack and there is
no imminent threat to the community at large that's their words verbatim and the evidence quote and sorry and that
quote evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack other statements that are very similar say the killings came
in an isolated targeted attack and there's no imminent threat to the community at large police also said
evidence from the scene indicates there is no broader risk but provided no information about the evidence nor why
they believe the victims were targeted the following day police backtracked some of that saying they could not
actually say whether there was a threat to the public or not yeah and Layman's speak they're basically saying we think
we have evidence that points that these are these crimes took place because of the victims somebody that they were
connected to was most likely the killer this is what happens in any of these cases especially when we have multiple
victims so Barry and honey Sherman media was asking right away from Jump Street the same question do we have a threat
here to the community should we should we all be concerned or should we be scared for our lives when the two girls
were killed in Delphi Indiana that was the first question that police were answering time and time again and then
of course this is the question that keeps popping up over and over again especially this first week and here's
here's where my feelings are on this and I'm not calling anybody out but my feelings on this are yes
I don't care if this was a targeted attack or not I don't care if Delphi was targeted or not or honey and Barry
Sherman any of these cases when you have somebody who has been murdered and the Killer is still out there and
you know very little about the crime itself or you have very few leads on how to track this individual down who's
responsible for the homicide there is a threat to the community whether it's targeted or not you know I had this
conversation the other day we were talking about the Nancy eagleson homicide and as you
know captain and and long time listeners of this show knows that's a 62 year old
case and the longer that a case drags on without result without a solution the more suspicious people get so in Nancy's
case depending on who you talk to you could have a dozen decent suspects in their mind and the question that kept
coming up time and time again is well if you had to narrow it down Nick who would
be your number one or your top three and my answer to that was simply look we have all these people that that you
question and say they could be responsible for Nancy's murder however there are two people on that list that
killed other individuals and for me that prioritizes them much more than these other suspects in my mind simply because
of the fact that these two individuals are capable we know they're capable of murder because they've done it before
and so that in itself is a threat to the public thank God most of us are not capable of murdering
another individual well I think most of us are capable of murdering somebody we just choose not to be giant douche
waffles what we have here on the campus in the surrounding communities of the University of Idaho whether you like it
or not or whether it was targeted or not you have someone or someone's that we're
capable of going into a home and attacking four individuals in their sleep and murdering them that person or
persons will always be capable of doing that again there is a threat whether the
police want to admit it whether the university wants to admit it or not regardless if this is targeted there is
in fact a threat to that community and in fact there's a threat to the surrounding communities as long as this
person stays at large yeah you sing it sister police are Desperately Seeking information in this case they are also
seeking surveillance footage it has been several weeks they have had some time to
collect that information and potential footage and they have been able to do so and had some success with that but they
really need any type of Public Assistance and any help that can be provided to them in this case as said we
are reminded almost daily from the Moscow police chief that they have not identified a suspect or found a murder
weapon so they need your help they need our help information can be phoned in at
208-883-7180 also tips can be emailed to the following address that is tip line at CI Dot
moscow.id.us and you don't have to write any of that information down that will be in today's show notes so if you need
to refer to that in the future we'll have that available for you well if you're a law enforcement and you're
showing up to the scene the first thing you have to do is that we have two surviving
people that lived in the house that were at the house at the time you have to vet
them I think first because I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities to look at them as possible suspects but
then they brought in other individuals to that crime scene so that makes it even more difficult the more people that
are at these houses it becomes more difficult for law enforcement and also anybody that's been to college
knows you have multiple House parties so that means there's thousands and thousands of hand prints and DNA and and
so much stuff that makes this crime scene I think a lot harder for for law enforcement yeah this is a difficult
case for for many reasons and we've talked about this before that of course you're the victim's Social Circle is
going to be where you will most likely find your perpetrator and now we have to times that by four we have four victims
here so we have police on record saying that at least at one point in their investigation they believe that this was
a targeted attack meaning one or all of these victims were targeted but this is a very bizarre crime to try
to investigate one because the totality of the number of potential suspects the number of potential Witnesses because
you have four victims everything's Times by four here and then the bizarre nature of the crime scene
itself and how it possibly went down because here you have four people that were killed inside this home but
investigators what little information is coming out one thing that they have told
us is they believe and we'll go through a timeline here in a bit but they believe that the other two victims of
surviving victims to people that live there at the home were present at the time of the murders
and they were not attacked they had no injuries what happened and how does this go down and how is unfortunately the
perpetrator or perpetrator successful in getting into this home carrying out these attacks
and yet we have two unharmed individuals that we don't know what kind of information if any they are able to
provide to law enforcement yeah it's very confusing because we don't think there are eyewitnesses we don't think
these roommates were ear Witnesses but then they'd call 9-1-1 and say that somebody's unconscious but
they should have seen the blood everywhere I mean this is a massive bloody murder scene the three topics
that I want to make sure that we get to and we're not going to be able to get into everything with this case here
today because a lot of it is still speculation and rumor at this point we've had so many people hit us up and
say when will you guys be talking about the University of Idaho murders and we know that this is something that's
that's in the media right now it's on the front lines of the media and being asked that
we felt a duty to to deliver some information here today and partly I believe captain that it is our duty to
deliver some information here today because I'm already starting to see some strange things coming out in this case
that are very likely not true or not a part of this case I want to steer clear of those items today and stick to what
we do know for certain we can get into some speculation along the way but I want to kind of stick to the path that
has been creative The Narrative that has been created through the survivors and through local law enforcement working
this case because as we've seen in other cases that there's a lot of strange things that pop up there's a lot of
things that are created out of Make-Believe and cases and then when you get closer to the case being solved or
once the case solved you realize oh those those things that seemed like they were almost out of a horror flicker off
of the movie screen that seemed like they probably weren't true well now we know that they aren't true so again we
won't know what's going on in in a large portion of this case until they find the
person or persons responsible obviously but I think it's important to deliver and remind everybody of what information
is out there because that's how you're going to have to build your case that's what detectives are going to use to
build their case and this is not something where anybody is sitting there sitting on their hands hoping that
somebody's going to phone in the correct information no we have the police department we have a lot of state police
involved already in this case we have the FBI Behavioral Science unit that has been sent to the area we have local
state FBI agents as well for Idaho that have been on scene since very early on in this case so we got a lot of very
capable agencies and persons working this case and things might start moving a little quickly here yes a lot to dive
into on this strange case but first let's take a quick beer break [Music] tired of the same old game nights
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purchase [Music] thank you all right cheers thanks for joining us for this special episode
cheers to everybody cheers to you Captain cheers to all of our faithful listeners out there and a cheers in our
thoughts and prayers go out to all the staff and classmates and family members of these four victims we understand that
these are trying times and we hope that this investigation gets some legs and takes off soon and starts heading in a
very good direction I feel like law enforcement is currently doing everything that they can of course
they're not sharing a whole lot of information so there has been some frustration on the part of the public
and students at the University there which I completely understand but for the time being we need to keep in mind
that they are trying their very hardest they're putting a lot of resources on this investigation hopefully they'll
have a suspect in their sights here pretty soon I do want to point out here Captain because we typically don't cover
a case that is just so recent you know we we covered Delphi back in 2017 but we covered it in in May and it
took place in February and we were one of the first to cover it but usually with these cases if you get inside of 90
days of when the case takes place of the day in question there's not a whole lot
of information unless you have an arrest that takes place within 24 48 72 hours of the case itself this is a very active
investigation as we said with not a lot of information coming out but I do want to point out the information that we are
delivering here today has been compiled through several sources and those include but are not limited to the
university itself the Moscow police the following news outlets which are ABC CNN
Fox and the national desk now there are three things that we want to make sure that we hit on here today
and your mom again we should be learning more information in this case and hopefully sooner rather than later but
we're gonna go with what we have here today those three additional items that I would like to make sure that we cover
we have a timeline that has been put together that has really started to flesh itself out it's not in great
detail that's one of the things that investigators are hoping the public will come forward with more additional
information to help them continue to flesh out this timeline of the four victims and their the people in their
Social Circles we have some I'm calling them additional autopsy information but it's more of comments that were made on
the record from the County coroner and we also have some additional house information as we know we talk about
this every single week here in the garage the the keys to these investigations are learning as much as
you can about the crime scene learning as much as you can about the victims and their surroundings and also the
investigation itself do you have anything that you think we should prioritize and
Tackle first here the floor is yours kind sir let's go with some of the additional house information that we
have and then we'll circle into the timeline the house information the crime scene itself is what makes this case so
mind-boggling to me and many others out there it's very difficult to believe that
someone or someone's could sneak into this home attack and kill four individuals you
have two other individuals that live in the home that are said to have been present in likely sleeping at the same
time of these attacks the statements are that the attacks when they started the victims were asleep some of the victims
it's reported had defensive wounds so they likely based off of those statements the best I can gather is that
they may have woke up mid attack but how does this perpetrator or perpetrators seemingly get in there this kind of
level of stealth and leave there with the same level and you have two surviving members of the home
you have it's reported that there was a dog that one of our victims Kaylee that she owned a dog and the dog was present
when the officers arrived it's reported that the dog was not so they find two of
the victims on the second floor of the home and two of the victims dead on the third floor of the home and the vague
statement regarding the dog is that the dog was not present where the victims were found but was in the home when the
officers arrived on the scene and we have the statement from police where they are saying the other members of
this home they do not have reason to believe that they are involved in any way in The Killing so that's the kind of
mind-boggling scenario that we have here regarding the dog and the other two individuals and then one statement that
has come out more recently and this is coming from the the property management team the that manages this rental house
is that there's actually a sixth person listed on the lease that person I'm unclear as if this
person was still living there at the time we know that this is is student housing we could have a situation where
the sixth person decided to not attend school for the full year or or left campus early uh for the upcoming holiday
and was not around at the time of the the homicides it's a little unclear about the sixth person in their
involvement in the actual home leading up to uh the this tragic event yeah this is absolutely tragic and and so
confusing so many questions but I think the way they probably got in without being seen and and heard is this
happened at the we hours of the morning so in a sleepy college town there's just
not a lot of people out well in our four victims here did not return to the home
until after 1am that night we know that to be fact and my neighborhood I see somebody walking at 1am or afterward and
that's very bizarre that's something that that sends up a red flag here in my neighborhood you don't anticipate seeing
anybody out that late or or roaming the streets if it were so let's get into now
that we've covered some of the additional home information that's been put forward by the media I think we need
to get into this timeline because the timeline's got some interesting details about it and this timeline has been
provided to us from foxnews.com so if anybody wants to look this up you you can go there and find it
for yourself I'm not going to go through the entire key of the article but I'll just jump right into the timeline
Captain comment as you see fit here the timeline that they provide starts with Saturday November 12th and this
technically will be the day before the homicides but they the victims were killed in the small hours of the 13th
and also discovered that same day so keep that in mind so Saturday November 12 we have Kaylee Gonzalez post a final
Instagram post at 8 57 pm and it's a picture that is Almost Famous at this point because I've seen it this picture
generated on and being thrown around on different websites and different news outlets I mean it couldn't paint a
picture of happier people all four of our victims are in this picture they are look to be incredibly happy in this
moment from my understanding I believe that this picture may have been taken a day or so before she post it but the
picture itself was not posted until 8 57 on Kaylee's Instagram it's our four victims along with what appears to be
two other persons who have been cropped out of the picture so we do not know who
those individuals are there's versions of this picture without them cropped out so that night two of the persons here
Kaylee and Madison they go to a bar and they hang out there this bar is the corner club which is in
town and from everything we can find it states that they were there from about 10 o'clock till a little after 1am this
was interesting to me Captain because when I started hearing that the four victims it's believed that they did not
arrive home until very close to 2 A.M that morning it was interesting to me because given
the size of the town and I know that it's a college but I trolled around on the internet and and on map apps very
quickly realized it was going to be difficult there was not a whole lot of businesses or bars that would stay open
that late even on a Saturday so it really limited the locations that they could be going to because originally
this was simply reported as they were at a sports bar or a local bar and had left
there and arrived home around the two o'clock hour so now we get some further detail it was in fact the corner club
which is in town and while this is going on while we have Madison and Kaylee there at the bar we have Ethan and his
girlfriend Zanna who went to a party together at the sigma Kai house which is located on
campus afterward we have Madison and Kaylee who are captured on video on Twitch footage
at 1 41 am and this is they are standing outside of a food truck in this video clip they are waiting in line at the
grub wandering kitchens food truck which I guess the locals call the grub truck they are chatting with friends they're
placing an order this is when they are last captured on video so we know that they didn't go straight from the bar to
their home they stopped off at this at this food truck first police initially said that that all of the parties had
returned home by 11 45 a.m but later revised their statement to say that Madison and Kaylee actually arrived home
at 1 56 a.m this is based off of additional evidence that they have recovered and they received a ride back
from a private party this initially was reported as an Uber ride but now now it's being referred to as having
received a ride back from a private party whom police have not named publicly but they say that they have
ruled out as a suspect now when we're going through this article and if we get to the other article as well captain
that I want to dive into I want to be clear about something because the the language is changing
throughout some of these articles okay and some articles what they are saying is that certain individuals have been
cleared or certain individuals have been ruled out as a suspect I will state as the article States it
but what I think that we need to make very clear here and what is very important to me is that
the language that the investigators are choosing to use in regard to speaking with the public in the media is
different than the language in some of these articles a couple things that are in favor of law enforcement here is we
have two parties and they're at two locations two girls are at a bar the boyfriend and girlfriend are at a a frat
party so because it's a small campus law enforcement is going to have a good idea
of the patrons of that bar and the patrons of that party those people obviously need to be looked at because
they're the some of the last people that come in contact with these individuals but then we have the two girls that stop
at the food truck and then I know that they've investigated several people that have been a part of that video clip that
you've talked about but because this is not a huge campus and we don't have a ton of students and we don't have
that many businesses open this I think is in favor of law enforcement figuring out and being able to interview the
patrons of both the party and the bar and what I wanted to make sure that we were clear on here again referring to
that language that is being used because in these situations words have very powerful and true meaning and so I
always am mindful of the words the investigators are choosing to use when they speak with the public and choosing
to use when they speak with the media and the words that the investigators are using again different from these
articles I'm yet to see and hear with my own ears a quote of investigators saying that so
and so has been ruled out as a suspect or so and so has been cleared in this case
in fact what they have actually been saying time and time again are the two or these two statements
we don't believe that this person was involved to me that's very different than saying
somebody's been cleared or ruled out as a suspect the other thing that they are saying is that there is nothing
connecting this incident or this person to this case again that's different than
saying somebody has been ruled out to me ruled out and cleared means we've determined this person in no possible
way any shape or form could have been involved in this saying we don't believe or have no
reason to believe that they were involved means we could still find something later that changes
what we believe happened here yeah I definitely agree with you hot pants the article goes on to state that the two
surviving roommates were females who survived the attack they have also been cleared again this is the language of
the article have been cleared as suspects that they returned home that night they were out as well they returned home
before the four friends who were later killed so these two female roommates per this report returned home around 1am
so based off of all of this information what we what it looks like we have a home where six people are going to go to
sleep that night all six of these individuals are out on the town and it appears that
that two of our victims are at this bar then they hit the food truck they get a private party to drive them home that
person has not been publicly named we have our other two victims that were at a fraternity party on campus they return
home and we have the two unnamed or previously unnamed roommates who return home as well that night so
they're all out but the surviving roommates return around 1am then we have the two from the fraternity
or sorority party that returned around 1 45 a.m and then the last two people of the home return at 1 56 a.m so that's
interesting that they are able to narrow it down to very precise times here and that is certainly very helpful for the
investigation but one of the things that are confusing is you think about the timeline and you go okay well what if
one of these individuals got into an argument with somebody and then the person followed them home well that
would make some sense as far as some kind of motive it makes sense on some level but what doesn't make any sense is
that these two groups of individuals weren't together so it wasn't like all four of them went somewhere and got in
an argument and then that followed them back home so that's where it gets even more
confusing exactly that's that really makes this complicated and just the nature of the crime scene and the
persons there at the home makes this very complicated as well police have been up front and saying recently that
it is believed that the murders took place between the hours of three and four a.m and we know that the 9-1-1 call
that came in that was received that call came in at 11 58 a.m I'd love to hear that 9-1-1 call so there's our timeline
right there police have stated as the captain stated earlier that the four victims were stabbed to death with a
edged weapon such as a knife that was the language they were using early on lately what has been stated is that it
was a a fixed blade weapon what's interesting here too is that through the course of their
investigation we're learning from persons that they've interviewed in businesses that they've gone to that
they have a very good idea of what kind of knife it was this was not it was not a kitchen knife this was not a pocket
knife this is what one business owner referred to as a Rambo style knife that they were specifically asking about a
knife of that style I typically call that a survivor knife that's the way they were always advertised when we were
kids their Captain but if anybody's seen the movie Rambo they know exactly what kind of knife that they are are looking
for this would be a large blade it would have a very sharp blade on one side and
with a with a large handle and I believe that's called the hilt right I'm not sure if that's exactly what that's
called but but that there would be evidence of that on our victims and that's why they are probably honing in
on a very specific type of knife another thing I just want to point out that makes this difficult for law enforcement
is I'm guessing the DNA transfer and the blood transfer if you attack one victim
and you get some blood on you and you attack the next victim then you're going to be transferring their blood to the
next victim and then both those victims blood to the next victim and so on and so on and to
add additional information about the potential murder weapon here we have the Idaho Statesman that reported that
police were focusing on a k bar that's k a dash b a r brand knife in their investigation and had questioned a local
hardware store manager about whether the shop had recently sold such a weapon and
then the article goes on to State the in the coming days that police were ruling
out or clearing individuals that we have already mentioned the roommates the person
whomever drove them home it sounds like they've looked at several different people again the language that I've seen
them use outside of this article and other ones that we will cite here today is that they do not believe a person
that certain person was involved or there's no evidence connecting them to the homicides which again I personally
believe is different yeah I think it's pretty strong to say that you ruled somebody completely out I think by doing
that you run the risk of putting your foot in your mouth I keep both feet in my mouth at all times
right well let's get into some of this additional information about the autopsy like we said here Captain they've
released very little information on the autopsies but the autopsies from from what little information they have
released it sounds to me like this was a rather quick straightforward attack the only thing
that's bizarre there is that it appears that the victims remained asleep while the other victims were being attacked
now we do have statements that are coming from the County coroner to the media that
I find to be interesting and and two they back up a lot of the suspicions early on and they back up some of the
other statements that we have found in the media so I summarized it as such for University of Idaho students were found
dead in a rental house Sunday they were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep a County coroner told
a cable news channel the County coroner told news nation that each victim suffered multiple stab wounds from a
quote pretty large knife and goes on to say State quote it has to be somebody pretty angry in order to
stab four people to death end quote the victims the coroner said were stabbed in
the chest and upper body area the coroner said that the victims were likely asleep some had defensive wounds
and each was stabbed multiple times according to police there was no evidence of sexual assault police said
and law enforcement say that the murders took place between 3 A.M and 4 a.m the other thing here in regard to the crime
scene itself is there's no signs of forced entry into the home there's also no sign of anything having
been taken from the house yeah and I can't speak to this particular house but I know the houses on Ohio State campus
if a door is a little broken or a lock is a little broken you're lucky to have your landlord come and fix it is it
possible that the doors were locked but somebody was able to either pick those locks or you know use the old credit
card trick to get in and and they and the people in the house just just didn't deadbolt the door some other persons of
possible interest that people I'm sure would like for us to speak about is there were multiple phone calls made
from two of our victims two of our female victims to a male individual it's now being reported that those multiple
phone calls were to an ex-boyfriend of one of the victims it appears Captain two things are going on with that
one I'm very curious who this individual was when they weren't naming him right and now they're listing him as an
ex-boyfriend of one of the victims but it then became clear that law enforcement was using this information
for two things one again the statement of we don't have reason to believe that this person was involved but it also
sounds like these uh text or phone calls these communications were what helped them to narrow down the
time of death as well and so it seems like even they get home around 2 A.M of course you know you
don't go home and and most of us don't go home from a night out and then go straight to bed but it was very late at
night when they returned home but it appears that they were still active for some period of time after returning to
the home that night yeah when I go to a bar and then I hit up the old grub truck I'm passing out right when I get
home let's just be clear about this I want to I want to make sure I'm clear on what
you're stating this ex-boyfriend was not just in communication with one of the roommates
or one of the victims but in communication with two of the victims that is what the statements are from the
articles that I have reviewed yes to me that is very suspicious and to me I'd want to know what those
conversations were about agreed in anybody that's communicating or interacting with any of our victims
leading up to the murders is going to be somebody that will be interesting to police and to
investigators now in this regard I personally did not find it to be bizarre I did I get it but the Social
Circles that I run in almost everyone's significant others are very close friends with
with everyone in the group and the way that I understand this and again I'm just you know 40 year old dude living
halfway across America away from from these victims trying to understand some victims in their their lives going on
that are half my age so I clearly don't know anything well clearly not and you're living in a van
down by the river but just pointing out that from my understanding the information that's out there is that the
two that were in communication with this ex-boyfriend were Madison and Kaylee and from my understanding and listening
to the victims families talk about their daughters and their daughter's relationships with each other that these
two were best friends from middle school and Beyond like the the closeness of their relationship is so hard to
describe to everybody out there because it sounds to me like many of us may have
not experienced a friendship that is in fact this close for this long of a period of time so from middle school on
high school and then they they go to the same college and become roommates together and they're two of the older
persons living in this house and this rental house on campus I don't find it strange that having that close of a bond
in relationship that one person that was not a part of that relationship of the boyfriend girlfriend relationship was in
communication with this male on that night as said those same two victims were together that entire night together
right which could be something as simple as oh I can't get a hold of Kaylee so I
text her best friend who was always with her right or I called her best friend who was always with her or so and so
called him I get it and I think you're spot on Captain you're absolutely right police would be foolish to not look at
him and it obviously they have done so to say that they've ruled him out or cleared and would be irresponsible to
say that they can't really connect them to the homicides is is likely a true statement of their investigation in the
evidence that they have so far the other thing that's interesting and it's also in regard to Kaylee as well is that I
guess in October she had made reference to a potential stalker there's very little details about that and and what
she had said to other people however the police come out and say that we believe that we have Tracked Down
to individuals that may have been called a stalker so these two individuals are our friends
they are persons that the police obviously know their names they've been interviewed right and one guy is saying
yeah I saw I was at me and my buddy went to a public place those who stocked together flocked together and we went
there with the intention or the hopes of meeting women the ladies and yes I I followed
her around I don't know if this was a bar they don't go into what kind of business or what kind of Gathering Place
this was right but he says yes I followed her around I may have even gone out to the parking lot when she went out
to the parking lot he says he did not interact with her at all this could be very simple as the
situation that we see every night on a campus boy goes out hoping to meet girl boy is too chicken [ __ ] to approach her
and talk with her but does the weird thing where he kind of follows her around briefly or or tries to exchange
glances across the room in hopes that she will come over and speak with him but never does so the police say that
they've moved on from this individual and and his friend and have no reason to believe that they had any type of
involvement at all but weirdly he hasn't moved on that was very weird to me not that they said that they've moved on
from this individual but it was weird to me that it that they came out and they it sounded like they
were so confident that they had Tracked Down The Stalker like oh it's just this goofy guy that
followed her around at a bar what have you well it could be a like you said a flipped comment that she made that it
was just kind of joking oh this guy followed me around the bar he's a stalker or it could be that she was
talking about a different individual and they just haven't been able to identify
that person again a statement like that could mean the world or mean nothing because we don't know the context in
which she said it exactly and then what we do have where I thought that the police statements were very weird in
that regard they did come out a couple days later and said hey yeah we have this information and we spoke about this
information with you guys previously but we are now actively seeking additional information if there
was a an actual stalker or if there was somebody of interest to this case and in regard to what
Kaylee had said to her friends again we're getting very little details on what she had said and it could have
absolutely nothing to do with this crime now where my head goes on this Captain was something you had said earlier where
immediately knowing that our victims were out and about that night before they returned home the killer comes into
the home and kills the victims and then flees right I wanted to know in my first
reaction was you know what damn it law enforcement better be all over every person that was at that bar that night
all over them like white on rice baby or everybody that was at that food truck or
the person that gave them a ride home but then you compound that stock with the idea that that two of our victims
were at different locations and our other two victims was it were at a completely different party a completely
different Gathering that makes this so bizarre to me if you had somebody that got ticked off
went off the rails and wanted to do something to somebody that they had interaction with or or otherwise that
night leading up to it why do we have two additional victims yeah and then why do we have two individuals that weren't
victims to just get scared and stop the attack I'd also want to go back further in time and say was there a house party
or somebody at that house party felt like they were disrespected or humiliated or whatever that maybe came
back because this type of weapon to me is not a knife that you're just going to be carrying around with you to parties
so to me this this seems like not some random thing that this was actually planned to some level well and what I
would encourage here is anybody and I know I'm stating the obvious but anybody on that campus or in the surrounding
communities that know somebody that has or weeks ago had that type of knife that type of weapon
in their possession please be on the phone with law enforcement and let them know that you
know somebody that had that type of knife this is not it's not an uncommon knife but it's not also a terribly
common knife it's not one that you would find in most people's homes in fact the
only reason why I'm well aware of this knife is when I was in Cub Scouts and boy scouts there was a good number of of
boys that that had this type of knife and would bring it on like a camping trip or or
something of that nature yeah this is a type of knife to me that you buy and then you show your roommates hey check
out my new knife and they're typically not expensive they're typically not incredibly well made I can't speak to
this uh k-bar brand I don't I don't know that brand specifically but I will say this this is not a knife that I would
anticipate seeing someone of our age to have in their possession well speak for yourself I pretend to be Rambo every
morning there's so many unanswered questions and obviously this case is going to develop more
but I actually think as much as we want information a lot of the stuff that you've been reporting on
is the police backtracking on statements and I almost feel like yes they felt like they had to get ahead of this in
the media but I've actually I actually think that they're making too many statements because when you have to
start going back and correcting little details and the the devil like you said lives in the details of these little
statements they're making whether they're fully clearing somebody or they've just moved on from that lead I
think they're spending too much time trying to give information to the public I think it would be better
I think law enforcement would be better served to sit back let the leads come in
work those leads and when you have definitive information then you present that definitive information to the
public and having people like the Behavioral Science unit there on scene look I don't think that as get as many
people and as many resources involved as you can I think that if they do come up
with some kind of profile of the killer or Killers that's that's where I think that the FBI could be of the most
service is determining how many people are responsible for these homicides but the the actual profile if it were in
fact one perpetrator because you have a campus because you have a community of persons that are all roughly about the
same age and they're all like-minded individuals that are attending that school I think that I don't know how much a
profile is going to help you in this situation and you know Captain I'm a big proponent of of these of profiles and
again where I think the FBI could be of most Services determining how many persons are involved it as difficult as
it may be to believe from what I'm seeing here it looks like probably one person involved I would want to know a
lot more about this dog and a lot more about this house I've seen information come out that says that the layout of
this home was tricky it's three stories high which is difficult anyway for somebody that's never been into the home
is this somebody that has previously been in the home as you pointed out this is somebody that could have been at a
house party that took place there at one point uh if these individuals were targeted did they target the right
people there's a million questions here I want to know more about this dog too is this
dog yapper is the dog friendly or not friendly is this dog going to bark and go crazy at a person that they've never
seen before yeah and we again we don't know the location of the dog at the time is it a dog that they put in a cage at
night time and the dog sleeps in their cage I think you're right and wrong I think
FBI and law enforcement could determine if they believe it was one individual or
multiple I think you can do that because look we have a idea of what the murder weapon was then we could figure out the
idea of if the killer was right-handed or left-handed but I actually think because it is a small college and now
you have all these people on higher alert and they're going to be looking for every individual that's acting
different or or has left school or maybe left school before these attacks happen
I think a profile would do a lot of good because with a small College people are
going to be on high alert and I think that's going to lead to some individuals being looked at that maybe law
enforcement doesn't have on their radar very possible very possible the the other things to consider in this case as
well you know I want to know more about this potential sixth person that is is on the lease where were they why are
they not mentioned hardly at all in any of the newspaper articles in the news articles
was that person not even on campus at the time for all we know they returned home to visit family for the holidays or
maybe finish school early or signed on to the lease and didn't attend school this year for any number of reasons yeah
or they lived in the house for a while and didn't like it and maybe there was a conflict there
when I hear knife attack sleep or no sleep defense wounds are no defense wounds my main goal as an
investigator would be a couple things blood evidence is going to be so key here we've talked about this many times
here in the garage and these types of knife attacks it's almost impossible for the perpetrator to not cut themselves
injure themselves leave their own blood at the scene I'm not so hopeful on that because we're sitting here almost a
month later and those types of tests don't take forever to run now could we have a mixing
of blood and fluids yes that's a possibility and that certainly complicates things so blood evidence
would be a high priority for me uh fingerprint evidence can get difficult here as you pointed out campus house
could have been House Parties we have an additional party that we don't know their comings and goings as well
and we also have a lot of people that live there and so all their guests that they would have come visit them and all
their family members that might come visit them I think we're going to find and this is
my gut feeling that there is some sort of premeditation whether there was a conflict at the bar or conflict at the
party or conflict a week or two prior to this that this individual either got the
knife for that reason or had the knife and then had to go home and prepare themselves and that
to me would lead towards they prepared themselves by getting they probably prepared themselves by getting the
weapon maybe putting on gloves maybe changing clothes that they were able to throw away and that's the other
difficult thing for law enforcement you have a lot of houses you have dumpsters in that area and somebody could have
discarded their clothes pretty easily and quickly could it have been somebody that was watching the house that this
had been something that was bubbling up for some time it that stands to reason a little bit
considering that the two surviving members of the household returned first and they were unharmed and the attack
doesn't go down until after these other four people returned to the home the other thing that that I want to
Circle in on here that is is concerning and these knife attacks there's there's a considerable amount of blood and I
know that I talked about blood evidence but this is on that same regard footprints
you would expect to find bloody Footprints at this scene and that would be very good evidence
that could lead you to your killer that would be great evidence that's going to let you know if we should be looking for
one two or three people the problem here in my major concerns and the red flags that I have in this
case where I I sit back and I go you know what and I know forgive me Captain because
two of these individuals are are likely just victims themselves having been roommates and losing very close friends
and and experiencing something that that none of us should ever have to experience so just forgive me while I go
down this road of speculation here but my concerns are are twofold one when it's when it's stated that you called
someone else before a call to 9-1-1 was made and the 9-1-1 call is then about an
unconscious person the the amount of blood that would have been at that scene and we're not talking about they
discover a victim at six in the morning when it's still dark out right five in the morning when it's still dark out
this is 11 56 a.m or 11 58 a.m when the 9-1-1 call comes in to me I and I you don't have to be a garage
expert to sit here and go you know there's a there's clear and obvious differences between a stab victim and
somebody that's just blacked out or passed out and unresponsive there should have been blood indicators
there to to tell these roommates that something else happened here and instead a call goes out to a third party or to
additional people that then come into are into the home and then into our crime scene right and trample our crime
scene where bloody shoe prints could have been the key indicator of who is responsible for this bloody shoe Prince
could have been the breadcrumb trail that led you directly to your perpetrator and now we got people there
trampling all over our crime scene and and the call that comes in is weird and I and here's the thing very likely the
9-1-1 call if we had the audio for it would probably clear a lot of that up yeah and what we've learned
through covering so many cases that cases are similar so I think you can look into spree killings like the one
that Bundy did the one that Richard Speck did or any other spree type killing and I think you'll find similarities in
those crimes and this crime in Idaho but I also am drawn to crimes like Lululemon
where they find somebody at the scene that now we quote unquote call victim and then ultimately becomes a suspect
ultimately becomes the person charged with the murders of that crime and if I killed a roommate
well let me invite a bunch of other people over to the crime scene to start contaminating it so it's not I think
unfair to say if I was law enforcement like I stated at the beginning of the show if I'm law
enforcement those are the two individuals I'm looking at and anybody that came over to that house anybody
that they called I'm starting there and I'm trying to vet them as much as I can before I move to the outside Circle
so many questions and I hope that the families and the students and the staff and everybody involved gets the answers
that they so rightfully deserve sooner rather than later and hopefully we can start to close out this case and again
our thoughts and prayers with everybody that have been impacted by this horrible
tragedy I know that we did our shows a little different than we do traditionally here
in the garage this week this for those that have never experienced or subscribed to our other
show off the Record these shows are much closer to what we do on off the Record and you can sign up for that by going to
our website at truecrime garage.com next week we will be back in the garage and doing our traditional shows as one would
expect we hope that you will join us again next week until then be good be kind and don't let it
foreign [Music]

Idaho College Murders ////// 634

Part 1 of 1

www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

This week we take a break from our more traditional True Crime stories to have a discussion about a case that is very much in the headlines and hearts of so mane people. Sunday, November 13, 2022 - Moscow, Idaho Police responded to a house regarding a report of an unconscious person. The 911 call came in at 11:58AM. When police arrived they found four University of Idaho students dead in an off campus rental house. This was quickly ruled to be a quadruple homicide. The victims were identified as Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves and Xana Kernodle. This case is very new and police are seeking the public’s help. To submit information or to speak with someone please call 208-883-7180 or you can email information to TipLine@ci.moscow.id.us

Our other show True Crime Garage “Off the Record” (OTR if you’re nasty) is available exclusively on Stitcher Premium. For a FREE month of listening go to http://stitcherpremium.com/truecrimegarage and use promo code GARAGE

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Brief Summary

The episode covers the investigation of four University of Idaho students murdered in November, discussing victims, crime scene details, and police updates.

Key points

Moscow Murders: A Community in Turmoil. The stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students have shaken the community.
Victims Identified. Four students were killed in a brutal attack, identified as Ethan, Madison, Kaylee, and Zana.
Community Safety Concerns. Police assure the public that the attack was targeted and there is no imminent threat.
The Timeline of Events. A detailed timeline reveals the last known movements of the victims before the tragedy.
The Coroner's Insights. The coroner discusses the nature of the attack and the victims' conditions.
Ex-Boyfriend's Suspicious Communications. The ex-boyfriend of one victim was in contact with multiple victims before the murders, raising questions.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's been more than three weeks since the murders.

Referring to the ongoing investigation timeline.

0:45WatchDec 7, 2022

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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