The Missoula Mauler /// Part 2 /// 432 | Forensic Files

foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
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grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] thank you all right so where we left off yesterday
we have two suspects one past the polygraph test one did not Wayne Nance passed the polygraph according to what
we have found and the husband Harvey pounds the results were listed as inconclusive
there was some real hold back information we called [ __ ] on some of the other yesterday but there was
some real hold back information here this was how the ropes were tied to the bed
okay so they weren't just tied to the bed post and if you read the newspaper articles that's the way that they make
it sound and I think the sheriff's department did that on purpose the way that they were actually tied to
the bed post is that they were looped around the bed post and then brought down and tied to the bed frame itself
another thing was that Mrs pounds her clothing had been cut off of her and was found on the floor in the bedroom that
was not released to the public the other thing was the secret location of the gun now we we said that several
sources stated that where they found the gun was hold back information in fact what was hold back information was where
the gun was hidden inside the home before the killer be it Wayne Nance be it Harvey pounds or whomever
got it before using it to kill Donna pounds this is very interesting because what
this does I think really has to shrink your suspect pull greatly the gun was hidden inside of you know
sometimes people will fashion a piece of furniture that it has like a secret compartment right
that's where this gun was kept the problem with that is there was only about a list of six or seven people
according to everyone interviewed in the family that knew that that gun was in that secret compartment in a piece of
furniture inside the master bedroom of the home of course everyone in the family knew
that it was in this location right outside of that it sounds like only a couple people but on that list
that very short list oddly enough Wayne Nance knew where that gun was this is according to the pound's son Kenny who
is off at the Army they tell him there's been an accident at home you need to get home that's all
we can tell you I guess his father Harvey pounds had ongoing heart issues and so his immediate thought was oh my
God my my father's died of a heart attack he gets home to find out no it's his mother it's not been an accident she was
murdered inside the home when he's interviewed he tells the detectives that me and my friend Wayne
Nance who lives you know nearby almost seen in their backyard yes but again I don't think that this
was known to any of the pounds family right right that's only known to law enforcement correct because they don't
know where they're going with this they're still really looking at Harvey pounds they find out that this gun is in
some kind of secret location this this hidey hole that's been constructed into a piece of furniture and they're going
well it's got to be Harvey no Kenny tells them not only did I show Wayne at one time when we were kids where this
gun was being curious kids we took it out of that compartment and we actually fired
the gun on one occasion so this is quite interesting now let's talk about Wayne Nance a little bit more
as said he's a senior at high school he lives with his family nearby and his father George is an interesting
guy he's as far as their family goes it seems like the general consensus is that
these are pretty normal regular people with the exception of Wayne he kind of stands out at school he's kind of the
odd kid and that's because of his own actions and his own words his as far as his family goes his father
at one point and I don't know I couldn't find a year for when this happened but it seems that at some point his
father was involved in some type of robbery which led to him serving some time in
prison and I think that this actually went down when Wayne was an adult another thing that went down when Wayne
was an adult was his mother for the life of me I can't figure out 100 why they've listed it this way
she died when he was a young adult and they listed her death as a suicide yet we have several people that were
with her the night of her death that says that they were she worked at this place called the cabin which was
known as a quote-unquote Cowboy Bar and I guess the way that they ran the place was that the employees were allowed to
drink there whether they were working or not she was working that night and got pretty drunk during the course of her
shift hopped in the vehicle and decided to drive off she smashes the vehicle head on into a
tree for whatever reason they listed her death as a suicide it seems to me like she was a drunk driver and made some
very very dangerous and poor decisions that night and all that stuff happens when Wayne is
older but what's going on right now is we have this information that the gun was located in a secret compartment
inside some furniture and that Kenny is telling police Wayne Nance knew about that gun and had fired
it before so the one half of the room that likes Wayne Nance for the Donna pounds murder they're screaming at the
top of the mountain let's go get this kid they get a search warrant they go to Wayne's house
they start talking to him asking him questions they ask his mother questions they search his room
and they find a couple of things that are of interest to them when they find this black bag and inside the black bag
they find a couple 22 caliber bullets the same caliber that was used to kill Donna pounds if these are related to
that murder it means Wayne either brought his own 22 caliber bullets to the crime scene with him
and left with a few of them still or took some with him as some kind of trophy yeah like a souvenir right so
again it doesn't directly tie him to the murder but it's of Interest then they find a piece of clothing that
has it appears to have some kind of blood stain on it now this piece of clothing has been washed at least one or
two times before or since the murder is it clothing of his it's his clothing correct found in
his room and it's been washed but they believed that at one time it had wet blood on
this clothing they cannot confirm if it is human blood they can't confirm that it's Donna
pounds's blood but again this is of interest to them they collect the this article of clothing they collect the
bullets that they found they take this back to the sheriff and now here's where we are the public is
pressuring the sheriff's department to make an arrest charge someone with Donna pound's murder
the sheriff and this was a very rare thing at the time goes to the prosecutor and they agree what they're going to do
is they're going to get together a grand jury and they're going to present everything
that the police have to the grand jury this means everything that they have against Wayne Nance but also everything
that they have against Harvey pounds the grand jury is then going to decide one do we have enough evidence to indict
someone and two who do we indict they review all of this evidence all of the information provided to them and at
the end of the day at the end of their sessions the grand jury decides there's not enough
evidence to indict anyone hmm we can't charge Wayne Nance we cannot charge Harvey pounds
and later we would have the prosecutor and the sheriff now mind you the public they don't know that these are the two
suspects that the grand jury was looking at this is all very silent to the public
closed doorstuff but we have the prosecutor and the sheriff who are later on record saying
that they were both relieved because neither of them thought that they had enough evidence to convict either
individual and neither of them were certain who was guilty of this crime if if if either of them
were guilty in fact yeah and you don't want to take them to trial and lose the trial and then basically lose everything
if you find out later that that's your guy if you would have just been able to get more evidence and get against them
so what we have here Captain is the Donna pounds case it's going to go cold after this grand
jury decides that there's no evidence to indict anyone they don't really have any leads on the
Siobhan McGinnis case and as far as the burnt heart case that took place five hours away in Billings
Montana six months earlier they don't seem to have any leads in that one either Life Goes On Harvey pounds and his
children they have to go on with their lives they have to try to pick up the pieces and have some kind of family life
Wayne Nance graduates from high school and he joins the United States Navy that same year
a lot of people wonder was he out there trying to serve his country or was this just a really good
way to get out of town yeah well we've seen well I also wonder because we have a lot of serial killers
that enter the Armed Forces and is it a way for them to to kill people right yeah because you
are always at the risk of going off to war and a lot of people do not ever want to face
to be put in a situation where they have to kill someone or defend defend themselves
where somebody that is really into that kind of stuff might look for ways to to put themselves in that type of
position and joining the Armed Forces allows that right on December 13th 1985. this is 11 years after the unsolved
murders of Donna pounds and Siobhan McGinnis A call came into the sheriff's department this is in Ravalli County
Montana so if you were to look at a map this is the county next to the county where they
found Siobhan mcginnis's dead body and where Donna pounds was killed a call comes into the sheriff's
department and this call was serious simple and to the point the caller was a male and said in a Stern voice I'm at
gave an address and said we have two Dead adults and three kids here that are still alive get here now
when the police show up they're arriving to a fire to a house fire um when they get inside and they put out
the Flames this was not a very impressive fire it looked like someone had attempted to burn down the entire
house what they found was kind of smoldering furniture that was on the ground level of the home
causing a lot of smoke not much fire the fire department puts out this fire they when they arrived they have three
children who have been removed from the home they're out in the front yard it's like six degrees outside
but the male caller who found the house on fire who discovered this and called the police
he brought the kids outside he said we have two Dead adults and three kids that are still alive get here now
the kids were all passed out practically comatose from a lot of smoke inhalation
what the police find inside is we find the husband and father who's been killed and he is on the
ground level of the house and then upstairs in one of the bedrooms this is actually one of the children's
bedrooms they find the adult female the wife and mother of the three kids the home belonged to Michael and Teresa
Shook and their three kids their children's ages are two four and seven they had two little boys and the
baby is a girl what they were able to determine was that at some point someone had come into the home
tied up the husband and stabbed him to death and left him for dead in a room on the ground level
upstairs in the baby's room the wife and Mother Teresa was sexually assaulted tied up and stabbed to death in the
baby's room left for dead whoever killed them didn't harm the children other than set the fire and
leave them to die in the house fire thank God this guy shows up and calls in for help right or the fact that he went
and got the children out yeah so who is this guy this guy is a guy named Greg Lakes and he had every
reason to be at the shook's house that morning his son was a babysitter for the shook children
he was there to drop his son off to babysit the kids that day he shows up he said that he didn't he
was unaware that there was any type of fire or anything going on when they first showed up they went up and knocked
on the door several times nobody answered so I guess they even like drove off and
got coffee or some type of breakfast and then decided to come back they just thought maybe the family wasn't up and
ready yet and when they come back there's still no answer he found this to be weird so he's
like I'm gonna go around and check a side door checks the side door it's unlocked he
goes in and he finds the place is covered in Smoke the three children thank God they
survive this whole ordeal and they were in the hospital for days because of the smoke correct police
questioned the children as they come to you know once they start getting it back together here they
question the children what they learn is that the seven-year-old who they were hoping to
get some information from as he's the oldest of the three kids he knew nothing about this attack
what he said was that he had gone to bed after the family had dinner that night and next thing he knew he woke up in the
middle of the night his younger brother his name is Luke Luke is the four-year-old woke his older brother up
went into his room woke him up and told him that the house was on fire they couldn't go downstairs because
that's where the Flames were they couldn't get out of any of the windows the older boy tried some of some
of the windows in the upstairs and he remembered from what he learned in school that smoke Rises they wanted
to be away from the smoke so they laid down on the ground on the floor of their bedroom
and then fell asleep next thing he knows he's waking up and he's in the hospital
the two-year-old they're not going to get any information from the two-year-old she's very much still a
baby at this point so now we have the four-year-old the middle child his name is Luke
and he's got some really interesting stuff to tell the police he tells the police that he was the one
that answered the door when the man came to the door that ended up killing his parents Luke says that after the family
had dinner his mom and dad are busy cleaning up dinner his older brother's already gone off to his bedroom
Luke hears a knock at the door he goes and answers the door and the man just walks right into the home that's why
children shouldn't answer the door yeah this man doesn't introduce himself he doesn't ask for anyone he just pushes
his way into the home the man then announces that he is Conan the Barbarian okay yeah this is weird
for police mind you they're interviewing a four-year-old so they don't really know what to do
with this Conan the Barbarian information yes if you telling the truth or is he just being a four-year-old and
doesn't really understand the question he's trying to be helpful but he doesn't know any better
he said that he saw the Man attack his father and then the boy decided to run and hide
in his room next thing he knows he said after a good deal of time he sees the man kind of piling up furniture
in the main room at the bottom of the stairs and he sees the man lighting the fire to
where he gets scared again and hides in his bedroom some a little longer and eventually the smoke causes him to
go wake up his older brother that's about as much information as they can get from Luke
he's going to really be the only living witness there's three living children but he's the only one that seems to have
witnessed anything police really want to know two things one has Luke ever seen this man before
and two what is the guy's name we know it's not Conan the Barbarian Luke says that he has seen the man
before but he can't remember where or when and when asked what the names what the
man's name was he tries to provide them with some type of answer but they they don't know what it is that he's saying
like whatever he's saying doesn't seem to make sense to them seems like they need to ask him easier questions is he
tall short is he old young right and they may have I don't know if they if they did or not I'm sure that they
probably did you're going to ask for some pretty basic identifiers of this person there was some hold back
information in this case as well and there often is most of these cases have hold back information the hold back
information in this case was that the both of the Shooks Michael and Teresa were tied up before being killed that
was not released to the public the other item was that Mrs shook was shot once in the leg
this gunshot obviously was not what killed her was the stab wounds that killed her
but she was shot in the leg and this was not released to the public the interesting thing about this hold
back information here is we had those cases from 11 years earlier but they're in a different jurisdiction
they're in the jurisdiction the county to the north of where this double homicide took place
Sheriff there still very much had on his mind the murder of Donna pounds now a cold case
in his jurisdiction he reviewed what they put in the papers about the Shooks murder right but
that hold back information might have been what would tie these two together because he still very much had on his
mind the ropes that were found tied to the bed post and then down to the bed frame in the pound's home
he knew that a gun was used in the pound's murder He was unaware that there were bindings
as well as a gunshot in the shook murder where this sits captain is unfortunately the shook murder
starts to go cold as well and the people of that County were an uproar they were calling for the sheriff
for his job they wanted this thing solved who could go into someone's home murder the
parents leave the children to die there and set the house on fire they wanted this monster [ __ ]
[Music] foreign [Music] [Music] we're back you filthy True Crime animals Cheers Cheers tall cans in the air
cheers one more time for the people in the back and when we say people in the back in the garage we mean that's third
row people in the cheap seats third row is the was the last row we only have three rows so here we go Captain we have
a desperate Sheriff who's looking for answers in this case that is very quickly going cold a double
homicide in his County he's desperate looking for answers anywhere that he can find them and we
have a psychic that I'm not certain if he reached out to the psychic or if the psychic reached out to him and sometimes
law enforcement does that to get new leads or possible tips or anything one detective that we spoke to said that he
would do that just for some outside of the box thinking was there some possibility or theory that we've not
considered not that they're going to put any weight into the psychics Visions or
thoughts or whatever but maybe it's just some kind of theory that we've not thought of yet regardless of how this
interaction comes about the psychic tells the sheriff three very interesting things
one that the killer has some type of injury to his body and I believe that they said like the right side of his
body maybe his leg or his hip testicle that's about as much as they could provide on that first little detail the
second thing was that the perpetrator was in woodworking or in the furniture business
in some form or fashion the third and this is the one that really seemed to bother the sheriff
was the psychic told Sheriff die that he would have to wait until September to solve the case
of course Dai wants to know why the psychic is unable to provide that information right so then the psychic
has to go to another psychic friend to figure out why well they have a whole network right for
Psychic Network that's right all right Captain this takes us to September 3rd of
1986. what we have here is late on September 3rd we have a married couple who is returning to their home
they get to their house and they see a vehicle parked in their yard well the husband is quite upset about
this nobody likes it when somebody parks on your property that's what the streets
and roads are for he tells his wife you go ahead and go inside I'm going to go over and check out this vehicle he goes
over to the vehicle and inside he sees a man who appears to be sleeping inside the truck
he goes in and he tells his wife no big deal looks like somebody had way too much to drink and decided our property
will be a good place for them to sleep it off right they're in the home for a little while
he has some things outside on his property I think like a boat and a shed some things that are of concern to him
that he's always voiced to his wife that you know anybody could easily steal my boat if they if they're on the property
or they could get access to the shed so now he's starting to second guess this whole man outside sleeping thing and
they have a relatively big property too I feel like I would call the cops since I don't know the individual yeah well
that's his intent he tells his wife he's like I'm gonna go outside and I'm gonna
do two things I'm gonna check on the boat and then I'm going to go over and I'm going to get the license plate number
off of this truck and I'm going to come inside and I'm going to call the sheriff
and say hey there's some dude in his truck on my property could you come and wake up what I'm doing I'm going outside
I'm kidding his information and I'm whooping his ass he goes outside and now the truck is
gone that seems like the result that you want yes so now the husband is outside checking on all of his property checking
the shed checking the boat so on and so forth and he thinks that he sees someone
in the bushes up near the house he says hey who who is this who are you what's going on
and a man comes out of the bushes and says hey it's Wayne from work okay so this guy's name is Doug Wells
he's the homeowner his wife is Chris Wells Doug does not work with Wayne he Doug is a gunsmith
he purchases and repairs guns sells them he's known throughout that area for doing so he's pretty successful at doing
this Wayne from work is Wayne from his wife's work they work together at a furniture
store Chris is the manager there she's the head honcho Wayne works in the warehouse and he's
also one of their best delivery guys delivering furniture Doug knows Wayne a little bit but he
says had this guy not said Wayne from work I wouldn't have put together who it was
so he hears it's hey it's Wayne from work Doug notices that it's Wayne from his wife's work he's like what are you doing
here what are you doing on my property why are you up by my house yeah I'm gonna whoop your ass Wayne says I was
driving by and I thought I saw somebody creeping around on your property so I stopped to check it out wow
Doug is not sure what to make of this mind you he just saw someone in a truck and he saw the person in the truck he's
not yet put it together 100 percent that the person in the truck could have been
Wayne Right Wayne tells him let's go inside we should call the sheriff and get somebody
out here to take a look at this Doug was planning on doing that anyway right Doug says as soon as he turns his back
Wayne must have struck him over the head with something knocks him to the ground
he takes Doug inside now mind you by this point Chris she's been inside for a little bit of time now she's in the
bedroom getting ready for bed it's late at night she hears the commotion she comes running into the room she
recognizes Wayne immediately obviously they've worked together for years Wayne what are you doing she says
he says look I'm in some trouble I've done something I just need some money and I'm going to
get out of town you'll never see me again I know you have keys to the store I know you have access to the safe and I
know how much money is in the building you're going to give me access to that money I want the money and I'll be out
of here Chris has no idea what Wayne's talking about she has no idea what it is that he could
have done has no idea why he would need to flee the area but she does have access to a safe she has access to the
work the work safe she has access to the money and he's right Wayne is right there was a decent sizable amount of
money at the furniture store I'm just saying that tonight if you're working with this guy and he's coming at you and
he says oh well you have a key to safe but you don't and you don't have access for the money then now we got even a
even bigger problem because this guy's a psycho the way that Wayne explains it to
both Doug and Chris is that he just needs to get these keys he might steal their vehicle and he's going to be out
of here he tells them that he's going to need to tie both of them up and he tells them that he's going to tie
them up in different locations of the house because if he ties him up in the same room that they're more likely to
get free or help one another and get free and he needs some time he says once I get to where I'm going I will call
someone and send them to your house and they will you know cut you free this is 86 right this is September of 1986. okay
I let's just point this out that this was done before we've seen this in several cases two that
immediately come to mind are BTK and zodiac right and both of these cases we've seen where the perpetrator says
I'm just going to get some money I just need to steal your car I'm going to tie you up to buy some time yeah
I just need to tie you up so then I can take her to another room to to try to rape her well we hear so often Captain
don't ever get in the car whatever you do whatever they promise you whatever they threaten you with don't get in the
car don't get in the car or the van now we're starting to learn don't let them tie you up no we should already known
that just like when Gacy wants to do the little handcuff trick hey I got the handcuffs now you try it on ah [ __ ] you
[ __ ] you I'm not trying on any handcuffs you want to tie me up suck it I am not
letting you tie me up it's difficult because look these victim's difficult kill me because you're not tying me up
well it's not difficult for you but it's difficult for the victims in these situations because they've seen and
heard and read of times where people are just tied up and left and so in in this
state they they may believe it they just want it to be over with yeah but knowing what we know now
what would you recommend well I just said what I would recommend don't let them tie you up no tying up
what we have here is Nance decides that he is going to tie Doug up downstairs in
the basement he takes Chris down there with them and has Chris Ty dug up then he takes Chris upstairs
to I believe it's a two-story home and takes her to the the upstairs and he's going to tie her up upstairs
now meanwhile what we have going on here is we have Doug who's trying to free himself he's already been hit over the
head a couple of times he's suffering pretty bad he's trying to get free he has no idea
what's going on upstairs but he can still hear and he thinks that Wayne Nance is still in the house this guy
said he's going to leave why is he not in a hurry to leave Wayne must have heard some commotion
because he decides to come back downstairs and he checks on Doug again but this time he picks up a knife and he
sticks it into the the man's chest Jesus Doug said that he could feel the knife go right into his chest and puncture his
lung and he could hear the air come out of his chest that was escaping his lung at this point Doug is pretty certain
that he blacks out he says he comes to a few minutes later at this point a couple of things have
changed one he noticed that Wayne when he went back upstairs this time Wayne did not
close the basement door Doug thinks that this means that Wayne thinks that Doug is dead
right Doug is able to free his hands and then he reaches down and he unties his legs
we already said that Doug is a gunsmith his shop is the basement of his home don't print a knife to a gun fight well
I guess that's that's a detail that I failed to point out Wayne has a gun oh Doug knows this that's part of the
reason that the two of them were tied up in separate locations however we're talking about handing out advice
don't get in the car don't let them tie you up maybe don't break into a gunsmith's home or try to home invasion
at a gunsmith's home yeah and look I know that it's not as simple as just nope you're not going to tie me up
especially when somebody has a knife or have they they have a gun right but it's
like if if they shoot you dead right then like it's probably going to end pretty quickly if they tie you up they
have the ability to torture you or to torture your loved ones all right I don't want anybody getting any advice
from our show I don't want somebody coming at us going well let's just move on let's March forward
well just as a reminder there's beers are flowing so don't listen to anything we're saying we're
just two idiots in a garage yes they won't allow us to leave we're trapped Doug comes too and he picks up one of
the guns that he's been working on and listen to How smart this guy is he says to himself
I only have seconds Doug is an avid Hunter unfortunately he's shot animals in the
chest while out hunting he knows that sometimes a deer might run around for 20 30 seconds afterwards
he tells himself from that experience I've got about 30 seconds and I'm going to die because this guy stabbed me in
the chest he decides he's only got enough time for one bullet in this gun he's got to
load the gun and then go find Wayne and he tells himself I got 30 seconds until I die and I'm taking this guy with me
he puts one bullet in the gun and he decides that whatever's going on upstairs he does not have the strength
or the vision because mind you he's in very bad shape he's close to dying to shoot at Wayne Nance in the same room
as his wife as he will very likely shoot her on accident he decides he's going to
make some noise and make Wayne come to him yeah it makes a little bit of noise he hears the basement door open
and as soon as he spotted Wayne long enough to make sure that it is Wayne and not his wife Chris he pulls the trigger
he puts one in Wayne's chest he goes up the stairs to where Wayne is lying Wayne starts to get up
Doug takes this gun and beats the hell out of Wayne Nance [Music] he keeps hitting him over and over and
over again in the head and neck area kick his ass driving him to the ground driving him to the ground Wayne keeps
trying to get up driving him to the ground eventually Wayne stops moving and now we have Doug and Chris who call
the sheriff's department Sheriff come out they figure out what's going on the the
call is interesting in itself too because Doug is in very bad shape his estimate of I've got about 30 seconds
well he wasn't too far off from that because it was Chris that called the police
she says I need an ambulance here now my husband is dying a man attacked my husband and he's dying right
well of course they want to know how many squad cars and how many ambulances to send to the place and they want to
know what's going on what they're walking into they say to Chris what's going on with the other guy
what's going on with the attacker Chris says I don't care get here and save my husband yeah
well to put a long story short there captain or to shorten my long story Wayne Nance dies and I've read a few
different versions of this I don't know which to be true I think he probably died on the way to the hospital some of
the short versions say he died at the hospital some say he was dead upon arrival regardless we know the result
Wayne Nance attempted to do something very horrible to these people he was attempting to rape Chris Wells
steal some things from the home and kill both of them yeah he's probably gonna light him on fire he was unsuccessful
thankfully in doing so yeah and before he died he looked up at the sky and he put his hands up and said I am Conan the
Barbarian well the thing that was weird here is we have the Sheriff's Department
that they have known all of this time we're talking this is like 12 years later they still have the Donna pounds murder
on their minds right the sheriff the head honcho in charge he knows that Wayne Nance was one of two
prime suspects in Donna pounds's murder they being law enforcement were on record when they were interviewed by the
newspaper the very next morning about you know what happened last night these two people were attacked inside
their home they this man attempted to kill both of them the husband and wife managed to get free and kill the
perpetrator law enforcement said to the newspapers that was like Christmas morning for us this is one of those
times that the good guys won yeah the good guys won and now were they able to connect him more to
the pounds case that's very interesting as said he was one of two prime suspects in that case
so much so that they took that evidence against Wayne Nance to the grand jury that decided not to indict right
what's really interesting was the shook murder case Michael and Teresa the one where the house was set on fire and the
three kids survived what we have going on now this is 10 months later after their murder that
case was starting to go cold police had no leads not much in the way of evidence
either in that case they had this story from the four-year-old who survived who couldn't really tell them anything other
than the man pushed himself into the house and said he was Conan the Barbarian we get a phone call to the Sheriff's
Department from the grandparents the grandparents are now the the surviving children live with the grandparents
the grandfather he heard the news about the attack against the wellses and how this guy worked at a furniture
store worked for Chris they both worked at the furniture store that he tried to kill this couple mm-hmm the grandfather
remembers the Shooks purchased Furniture shortly before they were killed in fact he helped them pay for it
so he knew where it was purchased from it was purchased from the same furniture store that Chris worked at that Wayne
Nance worked at and it was later determined that Wayne Nance was in fact the delivery driver of that furniture
that's where that little boy Luke had seen the man before but couldn't place the win or where or why
police did a follow-up investigation because now we have a dead suspect a guy who has been killed in the commission of
trying to commit further murder he's a suspect in several Murders At this point they search his home where he was still
living with his father at this point his mother's already passed away from that car accident that we talked about
earlier they find stolen items from the shook family home in Wayne Nance's room and these were items that were pretty
much one of a kind pretty rare items yeah these weren't just common household goods got him they
were able to find things from Donna pounds's home inside his room as well right so what Doug and Chris did not
only did they save their own lives they probably saved future lives of this serial killer who was going about his
killing business undetected but they also helped to solve this shook murder case double homicide and the now
very cold Donna pounds case all right but what about the other cases that you have talked about
well it's interesting here Captain because there was a lot of thought put into the possibilities with Wayne Nance
unfortunately we have a dead suspect in these other cases and we've seen this so
many times these serial killers they are a weird breed where we get them we lock them up and
sometimes they spill their guts and they sing like a bird and they tell us all kinds of stuff they tell us all kinds of
stories some of them true some of them false they claim numbers that they have not achieved as far as killing goes they
other times they shut down and don't say that they don't admit to anything with this case we're left to speculate
and our friends out in Quantico the FBI profilers they were very interested in the possibilities of Wayne Nance
they had speculated that he probably killed five-year-old Siobhan McGinnis and there were several thoughts put into
this Theory one that she was an easy vulnerable victim that it was part of his process of
becoming the serial killer it would have been unfortunately a low risk victim for someone like Nance who
wanted to try his hand at killing for several reasons one she's very young she likely didn't know Wayne Nance and
if he attempted to do anything she wouldn't be able to identify him if she survived also she's only five so she
doesn't put up much of a fight there's the another theory involving the possibility of Wayne Nance killing
Siobhan McGinnis and the thought was that maybe he was into killing kids and that his Target
two months later was not Donna pounds but he had been watching the house and maybe the 12 year old daughter Kathy was
his actual Target but Donna pounds came home before Kathy did and he decided to attack and kill
her the FBI has talked about this quite a bit and Roy Hazelwood who I'm a big fan
of he's written several very good books he put forth a couple of theories about Wayne Nance's potential involvement in
the Siobhan McGinnis case however in 2008 we find out through DNA analysis found on Siobhan McGinnis that Wayne
Nance is not responsible for her murder so it looks like Donna pounds was in fact his Target on that day yeah it
seems like part of his sexual fantasy was an individual that he knew that possibly was maybe a little bit older
than he was or somebody in an authority figure yeah it appears that he became infatuated with these women with these
three targets now he's tied to several other cases and we did discuss the possibility that the unknown killer at
the time back in 74 might have been responsible for the murder of Clifford and Linda Barnhart that took place in
Billings Montana five hours away very weird here Captain it was just last year that they were able to find the
killer of the barn Hearts all of these years later in 2019 authorities identified the killer of the barn Hearts
as Cecil Stan Caldwell he was a co-worker of Linda Barnhart who died in 2003 at the age of 59. Cardwell
had no arrest record it turns out that it looks like Cecil Stan Caldwell was the unknown dinner guest
for that night at the Barnhart house and what about these other Jane does yeah in the trailer we
discussed two Jane does we talked about Christy Crystal Creek and another Jane Doe that was named Debbie Deer Creek
well in the course of about five years from 1980 to 1985 there were three unidentified women found close to the
city of Missoula one found in 1980 one in 84 one in 85. all of these victims were determined to
be murdered they were unidentified Remains the first victim was found in January of 1980 and she was dubbed Betty
beavertail eventually she was identified but they've not been able to determine who killed her or put her in that
location a second body was found in 1984 and she was the one that they labeled as
Debbie Deer Creek the third body was that of Christy Crystal Creek found in 1985. it took many many years Captain
but they were able to identify Debbie Deer Creek as being Sherry Bachmann she was about 16 years old when she ran
away from home and it's believed that she hitchhiked her way into the area where she falls into our case is there
was this mysterious girl that was not from the area way back when living with Wayne Nance for a brief period of time
going by the name of Robin after this unidentified woman was identified as Sherry Bachmann and
pictures were released to the public featuring her sitting next to Wayne Nance many people came forward and said hey we
know this girl that was named Robin that was living with Wayne for several weeks
and then all of a sudden she was gone one day and when asked what happened to your
girlfriend Robin who you seemed so serious with Wayne had a different story for each
person that asked him that question what happened to Robin where'd she go did you guys break up he
had a different story for each one so Wayne Nance is pretty firmly believed to be responsible for the death of Sherry
Bachmann once named Debbie Deer Creek where our case stands today is that we still need to know the identity of
Christy Crystal Creek she was found in Missoula Montana she was shot to death she was found on September 9
1985. anyone with any additional information regarding the identity of this person or
to request additional information please contact the Missoula County Sheriff's Office at
406-258-3348 or the FBI violent criminal apprehension program at 800-634-4097 thank you
[Music] I want to thank everybody so much for sharing on social media Colonel do we
have any recommended reading for this week yes we do Captain this week we are recommending to kill and kill Again by
John Colston to kill and kill again reveals the disturbing compulsions of a Charming serial killer who fooled nearly
everyone he knew check out that great title and many others at truecrime garage.com and click on the recommended
page and I recommend that you join us back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't let it
foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music]

The Missoula Mauler /// Part 2 /// 432

Part 2 of 2 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com

Two murders take place in Missoula Montana in early 1974. Both cases are mysterious and the public starts to wonder are these murders connected? In the mid-80’s a married Missoula couple is murdered inside their home. The killer attempted to burn the house down with the victim’s children still inside. Why is this killer terrorizing the people of Missoula Montana and will he ever be caught?

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Brief Summary

The episode details the murders of Donna Pounds and Siobhan McGinnis, Wayne Nance's involvement, and the Shook family's tragic double homicide.

Key points

The Mysterious Gun Location. The gun's secret compartment raises suspicions about Wayne Nance's involvement in the murder.
A Shocking Discovery. A call to the sheriff's department reveals a double homicide and three children in danger.
Desperate Sheriff Seeks Answers. A sheriff grapples with a cold case and seeks help from a psychic.
Home Invasion Turns Deadly. Doug Wells confronts an intruder, leading to a violent struggle for survival.
Connection to Cold Cases. The investigation links Wayne Nance to multiple unsolved murders.
Wayne Nance's Victims. The FBI speculated about Wayne Nance's potential involvement in several murders, including that of Siobhan McGinnis.

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