Episode 783: The Watts Family Murders (Part 1) | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. This is indeed very morbid today.
>> Yeah. Elena has been sifting through discovery documents for the last 6 hours.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I did it all night last night, too. I had weird dreams because of it.
>> I didn't even sift through discovery documents. I just knew that we were doing this case. So, I was kind of like
watching um obviously, you know, this is the Chris Watts case cuz you've clicked
on it. >> Yeah. Part one of the Chris Watts case. >> Part one. We watched some of the
paranormal stuff that goes along with this case. And there was one thing in that video that I couldn't stop thinking
about last night. I woke up like multiple times throughout the night last night.
>> Yeah. See, and I've been I So, we I went through it a little bit. We'll talk about it in part two, the paranormal
aspects of it because there is some strange ones. >> But I was like more going into like the
the interviews like before he admitted to what he did >> and that shit'll [ __ ] you up.
>> Oh yeah. >> And just looking at those those discovery documents which we'll link in
the show notes. Um you can all look at them. You can all look at every goddamn text that was sent between him and
Shannan, between him and his mistress Nicole. I mean it's >> there's a lot to be seen. There's a lot
to be seen and a lot of uh just complete lack of humanity on his part, which is >> really upsetting to see.
>> Um I always swore I wasn't going to do this case because the details are very
upsetting, but I know you guys really want this case. >> This is one of our most highly requested
cases >> and I'm, you know, I'm doing this for you. Uh, I also knew this was going to be one of those cases
that just ate me up like that. I could not stop >> getting deeper and deeper into and that
has happened. >> Yeah. >> Uh, so I'm going to look forward to disconnect. This is like the Morris
murders case for me where it's like I'm really looking forward to the end of it where I can say bye.
>> Yeah. >> Because oh my goodness. >> Um, but yeah, so that's what we'll be doing today. Okay, but before we get to
that, before we get to all the horror and terrible [ __ ] um, if you haven't gotten your tickets to the live show in
June, June 27th, New York City >> Radio City Music Hall, >> we're going to be there.
>> It's going to be big. >> It's going to be huge. >> And there's only so many tickets left.
>> We're getting to that end point. And I want you guys to come and have fun cuz
it's one night only. We got a cool theme in mind. We have cool [ __ ] merch. We just had a whole meeting about the
merch. And it's [ __ ] killer. >> This merch is going to be killer. I'm really And it's only going to be at the
show. >> Only at the show. You can only get >> Make sure you get your tickets. It's
going to be fun. I promise you. We're >> Oh, we also booked a sick guest. >> Yeah, we got a special guest.
>> We have a special guest that's going to blow your goddamn socks off. >> That's true. So, it's going to be a lot
of fun. So, do it. >> Um, and if you haven't pre-ordered The Butcher Legacy yet, what are you doing,
>> honey? Uh, >> oh, and if you're looking for more signed copies, there's still more
people. >> Yeah, cuz I know you guys were looking for them and I told you I'll keep
signing them as long as my hand works on. So, as long as my hand is on my body, I'll keep signing them for you.
>> As long as you want them. And so, you can get them at Premier Collectibles. Um, there's some signed ones. And I
promise you, um, I'm signing them right here. >> Yes, I watch my hand every day each one.
So that's >> and I always say wow that's a lot of signing going on. >> I always say wow.
>> I always say wow honey. >> But just to be clear because I know some people are like do you really sign them?
I really do. There will never be a mass-produced signature of mine. So >> we also like be able to tell but
>> yeah that'd be insane. >> Uh but yeah enjoy that and pre-order it if you want and you should. It's fun.
>> And now we're gonna get into this. Um, I'm gonna I I'm gonna try not to get too worked up
here. >> Good luck with that. >> Yesterday I was so worked up and I was just talking to everybody in the room
about >> I'm gonna feel worked up because I felt worked up about I don't know like all of
the ins and outs of this case. I avoided it a lot because >> obviously children are involved so I
hate that. >> Um, but >> yeah, >> I'll get outraged right along with you. >> Yeah. And everything is going to be I
mean everything's right in that discovery document that's available for you to take a peek through. It's very long
obviously but it's all there. So this is all the official [ __ ] >> Now let's start with who Chris Watts is.
Unfortunately, >> do we have to >> uh I think we have you got to know who this [ __ ] is.
>> You got to know who this piece of [ __ ] is. Um so he was born May 16th, 1985.
Hate that he was born in the same year as me. >> I know. A tourist, too. >> I usually love a tourist.
>> Not this one. >> No, >> not this one. He was born in Fagetville, North Carolina. Uh he was the second to
two children. Born to Ronnie and Cindy Watts, who I have so many feelings about, but I'm not going to spill all of
them. >> Keep it quiet. >> But you you can feeling that you will. >> That's just feelings, you know.
>> Just a feeling. >> Uh growing up, he was very close to his dad. Uh they had they shared a love of
sports and cars, like you know that kind of thing. >> Dude stuff. >> Um very just
>> dude bros. >> Sports and cars. Just all right. Uh but Chris's relationship with his father was
built on more than just these shared interests. They had very similar personalities. And you can see even now
that they still like not the murderous personality obviously, but I mean like he's a very quiet like subdued guy for
the most part. Um, and his dad seems a little bit like that as well. Um, so I think what everybody said around them
was that Chris felt like he was understood by his dad because they were kind of the same.
>> He was like an average student. He was a good athlete. >> I [ __ ] hate him, but that he he
didn't do anything remarkable. Like >> I wouldn't think so. >> Nothing to write home about. Um, he was
super shy, so he didn't really like stand out in any way and he just kind of flew under the radar because he was a
[ __ ] loser. >> Yeah. Um, but I'm going to be so mean about him. I just need to get that. If
you are one of those girls who like writes to him in prison or you're going to want to turn this off,
>> you're going to want to turn this off and you're going to want to go seek some
real help because this man, after reading more and more about him, I think is one of the biggest pieces of [ __ ] I
have ever come across in my entire existence of research. If you can kill your own three children, one of which
was unborn, and your own wife while pregnant with one of those children, >> there's not a good bone in your There's
nothing good about you and there never was. >> And the details of it all are just
beyond human comprehension. And how he reacted to all this should >> horrify you to your very [ __ ] core.
It really should. Uh but when he got to high school, he had become pretty withdrawn. Like he was always very quiet
and withdrawn. And it wasn't like there something happened that is on record that made this happen. He just was
always like that. >> That's weird. >> Um and he was kind of aloof as a teenager. He was kind of aloof as an
adult, too. He didn't give a [ __ ] about anything. >> Um as evidenced by his interview when
his family was quote unquote missing, and don't worry, we'll get into that. Um his sister Jamie said he didn't go out
with friends. I was more of a social butterfly and he was quiet and interested in mechanics and cars. He was
just a focused person and I think that just means like he was a a piece of [ __ ]
in the making. >> Yeah. >> It wasn't until he enrolled in an automotive technology class that he
started to find like some kind of confidence. Um, his love of cars and his deep knowledge of NASCAR impressed the
teacher of the class, uh, Joe Dudy, who, and it's duty y, okay, >> to stifle all of your giggles.
>> He took Chris under his wing and kind of became like a mentor to him. The teacher
said it's hard to find a more perfect kid. I'd argue it's not. It'd be super easy. I that's that's me. But he said he
was in the top 10% of students I ever had and that was in the automotive technology class, not in the school.
>> Okay. >> Um don't want to give him any undo accolades here. >> Don't don't be doing that.
>> Um also, uh this the teacher, Mr. Dudy, said uh he could see that Chris struggled socially and he had very few
friends at the time. That kind of remains something through his life. As you'll see, not too many people were
willing to go to bat for uh Mr. Watts here >> good. >> Throughout his life. So I think um mom
and dad were really his like number one people who were going to go bat for him.
>> Great. >> Uh so the teacher said many times I would look at him and think what's going
on in his head. >> It was like the wheels were spinning but he was by himself. >> That's a loaded question.
>> And I saidoo you don't want to know what's going on in his head. >> Yeah. I wonder what was going on in his
head even back then. >> Probably a whole lot of nothing. >> Yeah. Honestly, I he seems like one of
those dudes. If you watch any interview with him, he's like one of those guys that if like if you like blew wind
through his ear, it would like come out the other side like just >> freely like he just nothing one's home.
>> Yeah. Like just not a lot going on. Now, after graduating from high school, his
passion for cars led him to enroll at the NASCAR Technical Institute in Morrisville, North Carolina. Uh it was a
NASCAR sponsored program that specialized in motorsports and like automotive training.
>> Cars. >> Um just cars. He also found a part-time job lo working at a car dealership.
>> Cars cuz cars. Uh and when he wasn't in class or at work, he was using his free
time to study cars. >> Cars. >> So >> you have to do you have to cars. >> Cars. >> You have to say it like Andy Belelffler
from True Blood. >> From True Blood. Uh I don't know if you're picking up on something here. All
he cared about was cars. Cars. That's all he had. That's all he had. >> Uh >> he had three looks. That's it. Just
cars, cars, and cars. >> Cars. NASCAR, car school, >> and a dealership. >> That's it. [ __ ] loser. Uh his former
roommate, Richard Hodgeges, said he was very dedicated to his work on cars and wasn't the kind of guy that went out and
partied because he was too busy with cars. >> Uh but he eventually finished the NASCAR
program and started a full-time job as a mechanic. It wasn't exactly the exciting
career in NASCAR that he thought he was going to be going forth with. >> Well, he's mediocre. So,
>> but he made decent money. He enjoyed the work. Says because he loves a car. So,
he didn't complain and he just kind of like thought he would move up someday, which is how you should go into
something like that. You start at the bottom, you work your way up. >> Around this same time, he surprised
everyone by starting his first romantic relationship >> with a car. >> I would have thought so, but no.
Unfortunately, even the cars were like, "No, thank you, sir." Uh, but this is how weird he was that everybody
was like, "Wait, what?" >> By all accounts, like again, I wasn't there. I don't know this man. But by all
accounts, this is how like off like a little aloof and just like shy and not and like withdrawn he was that everyone
was like, >> "You're going out with a girl? Like what? Another human? Are you sure? Like
another human and you are going to hang out?" Like that's how off he was. >> That's bleak. Um, but yeah, he started
his first romantic relationship and the woman Chris was dating had just come out
of a bad marriage and he never brought her around to meet his family or his co-workers or friends. So,
>> she existed though. >> I guess she existed. Chris later said, "I was helping her to get through her
divorce and then she went off with someone else." >> Oh. >> And I said, "That checks."
>> Okay. >> Also, I'd like to point out right now, so you do know what divorce is.
>> Yep. So you you have seen >> the basis of divorce >> because Chris Watts, why the [ __ ] didn't
you just divorce your wife? >> I will never understand this as long as I live. You did know what a divorce was.
>> There's so many cases where it's like why did you not just separate and divorce?
>> Truly. Truly. >> Obviously, it's like I know it's complicated. I know there's money. You
need to explain it to us. We know what I know that it's tough. I'm a I'm a child
of divorce. I get it. It sucks for like 18 whole years, >> but it's a hell of a lot better than
murdering your pregnant wife and your two children, I would say. >> Yep. >> I know it's tough, but it's not that
tough. >> I will stand 12 toes down on that. >> That it's better than murder. It's
better than family annihilation. And I think if you can't agree on that, it's a problem.
>> Yeah. >> Uh but between his failure to land the job of his dreams and the messy end to
his first real relationship, he was feeling discouraged and he wasn't really like psyched to go date again cuz he was
like, I got her through this divorce. and then she just kind of went off with someone else and she's not a car and
she's not a car. Um, but his cousin Cindy, not to be confused with his mama Cindy, uh, was able to convince Chris to
send a Facebook friend request to one of his co her co-workers uh, named Shenan.
And her u made a name, I believe it's pronounced Zootek. >> Okay. >> Um, I looked it up many many times. Uh,
but obviously for the rest most of the story she go unfortunately goes by Shannan Watts.
>> Okay. Um, like Chris, Shannan was also just coming off of a bad breakup and Cindy thought the two of them might hit
it off. They have something in common there. >> Yeah. >> In retrospect, it is a little weird that
she thought that they were going to get along cuz they were kind of like very obvious opposites.
>> Okay. >> Uh, and obviously that can work. So maybe that's what she was thinking.
Maybe. >> Um, Chris was very quiet, shy, reserved, withdrawn. Like we've said, Shannan was
friendly. She was gregarious. She was outgoing. like she was just she was pizzazz, you know.
>> Shannan had grown up in New Jersey but moved to North Carolina uh in the late
1990s when her father was out of work. >> Love one thing I love is a Jersey girl.
>> A Jersey [ __ ] love a Jersey girl. >> Yeah, we love it. And the move meant a
new school for Shannan and she started attending Pinerest High School. This was a progressive school with a focus on the
arts. >> Okay, cool. >> Uh in that supportive and collaborative environment, she kind of thrived and
really came into her own. She developed a large circle of friends. She excelled socially. She excelled academically.
Unlike Chris who was just a literal nothing and no one would probably remember him. Y
>> Shannan was like just killing it. She was thriving. >> Love that. Um, and she maintained big
close groups of girlfriends, especially her entire life, >> which says so much about
like I know a like some of the details about the way that her friends just rode for her and that says so much about her.
>> It cannot be stressed enough how much her friends [ __ ] rode for her >> and loved her.
>> Like her friends, like we're going to get into it. Um they are >> next them and Nate her neighbor
>> heroes in this whole situation in my opinion. >> Same. >> Okay. So like I think her friends were
on it. >> So again she developed this huge circle of friends. She was really thriving. Um
her friend Colby said she was one of the sweetest girls you could ever encounter.
A >> in her senior year she started dating Leonard King, another Pinerest student.
And the relationship moved pretty fast, like faster than anyone expected. Before
the end of the school year, they were engaged. >> Oh, wow. >> And they were discussing like future
plans. Colby said she was adamant about starting her life and having a family. And a few months after graduation, they
got married. >> Wow. >> Now, the marriage started out great, but soon the realities of getting married
right outside of high school started creeping in, which obviously this works for some people,
>> but I don't doubt that there's a ton of extra >> stressors that come from that because
you're not exactly established yet, right? Um, so if you're not meant to be, I don't think it's going to work. It's
going to be the thing that kind of pressure tests your relationship. >> After graduation, Shannan started
college and Leonard joined the army. But when their cost of living went up and they couldn't afford life on one single
income, Shannan dropped out of school and got a job selling cell phones. >> Um, although it wasn't what she wanted
for herself at the time, she excelled in sales. She could because of her personality,
>> right? >> And within a few years, she was managing the store. >> Wow. and handling all the administrative
duties. Which I could never It's my nightmare. I could never. Her success at the cell phone store led to the store's
owner to hire her for his new company. >> Wow. >> This company was called the Dirty South.
>> Absolutely iconic. >> It was an automobile customization company that catered to high-end
clientele >> for their cars. >> For their cars. Uh, if it was possible to identify the point where Leonard and
Shannan's marriage kind of started to fall apart, it was probably when she took that job at Dirty South. At the
time, she was managing the cell phone store and the new business, often traveling the 130 m between the two in
the same day. >> Oh, wow. That's a lot. >> So, they were not really seeing a lot of
each other. It just wasn't working. They tried couples counseling and various other ways to save their marriage. They
did give it a go, you know, like they did what they could, >> but in by 2007, too much damage had been
done and they divorced. >> Shannan later told a friend, "I went through a real awful divorce and that
relationship took a lot from me. It literally took everything. I had to start financially all over." That's
brutal. But Shannan refused to let the experience drag her down. She continued working hard at her job. She enrolled in
some night classes at Queens University. and she started looking for property in
Charlotte where she could start building her own dream home. Nice. Because she was making money.
>> Let's go. >> Cuz she was real good at sales. >> We love an independent lady and
>> she's she was hustling. Uh a few years later, she signed off on all the mortgage paperwork and started
construction on what would be a 4,000 ft 12 room home with four bedrooms and four
bathrooms. Wow. That she was doing her own. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. So, the excitement of all this,
becoming a homeowner, starting a new life, it was soon offset by long periods where she was feeling really exhausted
and kind of unwell. Oh. And she was starting to notice it. >> In 2010, she finally went to see a
doctor and she was diagnosed with lupus. >> Oh, [ __ ] >> Uh, it's an autoimmune disease where the
body's immune system attacks its own organs and tissues. >> Yeah, lupus is no joke.
>> Lupus sucks. She later said, "When they diagnosed me with lupus, I was lost."
>> Oh. She didn't know what it was or what to expect. So, of course, she did what
any of us would do. She went to the internet and tried to search it up. >> And she was immediately terrified by
what she found online. >> But it was during this period that Shannan received the friend request from
Chris Watts. >> Having recently come out of a bad marriage followed by chronic health
problems. She wasn't exactly interested in getting to know anyone at this point,
regardless of how well her co-orker Cindy thought they would get along. So, she kind of just ignored it. She was
like, "No." And it's like, "Oh gosh, I just wish she had forever ignored it." >> I know.
>> But a few months later, when a second message from Chris appeared in her inbox, she figured she might as well
give him a chance. >> And a few weeks later, they met for their first date at the Epicenter, which
is an upscale dining and entertainment place in downtown Charlotte. >> Okay. >> Uh, contrary to what Cindy had told them
both, they had very little in common, and they had a complete lack of chemistry on this first date. I mean,
from everything you've described about each of them, like I I don't see it. >> Personally, anything I've seen of him,
I'm like, >> a wet rag has a bigger personality than he does. Like, you're I don't I don't
blame her for being like, "What the [ __ ] is this?" >> Yeah. >> Despite the disappointing evening,
though, Chris did manage. He pursued. >> Okay. >> He managed to convince Shannan to give
him another chance. And a few days later, they attended a concert together. >> Okay.
>> He later said, "I was persistent trying to pursue her." >> Wow. which does become
>> a theme, >> a thing for him. >> He becomes obsessed with women. He becomes focused solely on women. We'll
see it with his mistress Nicole. We'll see it with Shannan. We'll see it with uh later uh women that he becomes
interested in in prison. He becomes very obsessive with somebody cuz he's a [ __ ] loser. Uh but despite the
failure of the previous date, he found himself really drawn to Shannan and was determined to convince her that they
were a good match. >> If you have to convince somebody that you're a good match, I'm sorry, you're
not. >> Yeah. It took some time, but eventually he did win her over and with a in a few
months she was very happy with him and she was calling him the man of her dreams.
>> Wow. So he it sounds like he tried to become what she wanted. >> Yeah. like he tried to
>> maybe he emulated the qualities and did some Google searches of how to act. >> Yeah. Because as we'll see later, he
literally has to Google uh what does someone feel when they tell when you tell them you love them.
>> Yeah. >> Because he literally doesn't know. >> Yeah. >> Because he's not a human being. Like
he's a lizard person. That doesn't it doesn't make any I'm sure he was googling what does human boy say to
girl. Like he is not a real thing. >> He's like watching like romcoms and taking notes. He's scary as hell. And
I'm sure that he was able to cuz one thing about these scary as hell >> [ __ ] lizard people who are just empty
husks that just look to fill themselves with other people's ideas of emotions. >> They can blend.
>> They can manipulate too. And they become for you what you need or want because
that's how they want to get you. >> But deep down they are not that. So then they can't live up to that that fake
thing that they've created for They can't continue on like that. >> Yeah. And then it becomes dangerous. So
she had no way of knowing that this man is just this empty husk of [ __ ] that is going to crumble.
>> Now over time, the various ways that they were compatible started to show themselves, which made it a little
easier to like go down this path of like maybe we are meant for each other. >> Cuz managing her lupus meant relying on
a lot of medications and attending a lot of doctor's appointments and like specialist appointments
>> and Shannan was not. She was a lot of things, but she was never a very wellorganized person. We all have our,
you know, >> not either, sister. >> And Chris's lifelong compulsive hyperorganization,
which yeah, uh, it did come in handy here because before long, he would manage her medications for her. He would
kind of keep her doctor schedule under control, remind her you got to take your meds or like you got to go to this
doctor's appointment, which at first glance you would look at and say, "Wow, that's really kind and like thoughtful
and that's somebody who cares about you." >> It's actually insane that he used to
manage her doctor's appointments. We'll get there. >> We'll get there. So, Shannan, meanwhile,
made up for Chris's social struggles and deficiencies, of which he had plenty. Um, she introduced him to her friends
and like included him in all their activities. kind of like gave him a friend group essentially. And before
long, Chris moved into Shannan's house and everything they everyone kind of started to feel pretty confident that
like this might work out. Like I think they're actually working together. >> And as Chris was slowly but surely
becoming integrated into Shannan's life, some people uh especially Chris's family
were were not entirely on board with this. Uh they did not feel like they were a good fit for each other.
>> Just like immediately. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um, also I want to remind you these are
two grown adults. Um, so no one gives a flying [ __ ] if you think that they're a
fit for each other. They got to figure that out. >> Yep. >> Uh, just putting that out there for
anybody who thinks that this is this makes sense. >> Chris's sister Jamie said, "We met and
we weren't sure. >> It's really not up to you, okay? >> Cuz you're not in the relationship, but
okay." >> Um, when the families got together for the first time, Chris's parents were
immediately suspicious of Shannan's lifestyle. What? >> They said it didn't seem possible that
someone so young could afford such a lavish home. >> Okay. Well, she works her ass off.
>> Here's the thing. Just because your son is a [ __ ] loser, >> right, >> does not mean everyone is. Shannan
worked her ass off. >> Yeah. >> And it's like, what do you say? >> Some people do work their asses off,
others don't. >> So, she assume they assume that she was reckless with money. >> That's quite the assumption to make.
>> She built her dream working two jobs, but she was >> traveling 130 miles back and forth per
day, >> but she was reckless with Yeah, for sure. Then there was the fact that she
had already been married and divorced by her mid20s. >> Who gives a [ __ ] >> Everybody's you clutch the pearls,
[ __ ] >> Get a grip. >> But the biggest problem, at least as far as Chris's uh mother was concerned, was
Shannan's mother, Sandy. >> Oh, the two women clashed immediately. >> Really? >> Uh and Sandy did not walk away from that
meeting feeling good about potential for success here. Uh Sandy later said, and uh I'd like to point out that Sandy was
100% correct here. call her Nostradamus. She said, "I knew she was going to be a
thorn in the marriage." >> And she was a mama. Most mamas. >> Yeah. >> No. >> No. And I think she was like, "Oh,
you're going to be a problem." >> Oh, no. >> Now, in 2011, Shannan's close two closest friends at the time, Gina and
Charlie Deetsz, moved to Broomfield, uh, Colorado. And within weeks, they were saying, "Shannan, you have to move
here." They said, "This Fresh mountaire will be [ __ ] awesome for your lupus. I think it's going to help you. It's a
beautiful area. Like there and she had just experienced a really bad flare up of the illness in the previous months.
>> So the idea of moving was appealing in that sense, but she had just finished building her dream house and things were
going well with Chris. So she's like, I don't know, that's enough that I want to
just like up and leave, right? >> Yeah. That August, Chris and Shannan rented a house in Ocean Isle Beach,
North Carolina, and invited family to spend some time at the beach with them. One afternoon, a few days into the
vacation, Chris approached Frank, who is uh Shannan's father, and told him he wanted to ask Shannan to marry him.
>> Okay. >> But only if Frank gave his permission. >> Uhhuh. >> Not, you know, one to stand in the way
of his daughter's happiness, Frank immediately gave his blessing. And a short time later, Chris proposed to
Shannan on the beach, and she said yes. >> Nice. >> Well, you know, at the time,
>> yeah. Now, a few months later, Chris and Shannan flew to Colorado to visit Gina
and Charlie. And it was the first time Shannan's friends had met her now fiance. And they were pleased that after
such a disastrous relationship, the marriage, she had found someone who seemed by all accounts, everyone said he
seemed very devoted to her. >> Okay. >> Gina recalled he was very doing, attentive, kind, but shy and
introverted. They all say this. His mother says this with much eye in her voice that he was very doing on
>> Shenan, >> which you would think that you'd be proud of your son for being a doting
husband. I >> that's my opinion. >> That's what I would think. >> Like if I had a son and he was a doting
husband, I'd be like, "Hell yeah, I raised him right." >> Yeah. Like hell yeah. Treat treat your
treat your partner like a [ __ ] queen or king or whatever, you know? >> But it was during that trip that the
question of moving to Colorado came up again. Gina was convinced it would be better for Shannan's health and Chris
didn't seem to have an opinion one way or another because he's an empty husk. Everybody like this the idea is going to
come up here and like you know his mom likes to say it and stuff that uh look at any interview with them that uh she
that she was doineering or that she was too like you know that kind of person. I
don't this is just my opinion. It's not that it looks like she's very doineering. It looks like Chris Watts is
an empty, again I say, husk that will just take anything and just roll with it until it doesn't work for him anymore
and then he explodes. >> It also seems that he becomes obsessed with women. That's my opinion.
>> So, if the woman that he's obsessed with wants to move to Colorado, of course,
he's going to go with it. >> Well, he just What does he have going on, right? >> He doesn't care. Sure, let's go to
Colorado. >> There's cars everywhere. >> There's cars everywhere in Colorado. Is
there cars in Colorado? Let's go to Colorado. That's how it seems to me, >> you know? So he was like, "Yeah, I don't
really give a shit." So during the vacation, the couple hired a realer to take them around the area and look at
some properties. And by the time they were leaving to go back to North Carolina, they'd made the decision to
move to Colorado as soon as possible. >> Okay. >> In fact, before they'd even gotten home,
they'd already come up with a plan. Chris would move to Colorado first and stay with Gina and Charlie, while
Shannan remained in North Carolina to sell the house and kind of wrap up all the affairs on the East Coast.
>> Okay? >> Cuz again, they don't have kids at this point. It's much easier. >> Yeah.
>> Now, Chris and Shannan's plan to move to Colorado became yet another point of
contention with the families. >> Mama doesn't want her right. >> While Shannan's family was supportive
and helped her prepare for the move in the upcoming wedding, Chris's mom struggled to accept this.
>> Um, >> I bet >> she said Colorado was Shannan's idea. >> How do you know that? Because you're not
at the dinner table when those conversations are happening. Like, you're >> Yeah.
>> Sorry. [ __ ] off. >> Yeah. Like I'm not in the relationship either. So I'm not saying it wasn't her
idea. But we don't know. We we all share the common thing that we don't know. >> And you know what? He was going along
with it. >> So what's the problem? >> Right. >> But it's like he agreed to it and they
lived there for how long? Like obviously it was fine for a little bit. >> They were also uh grown adults. So uh
she said why did she want to leave and take him all the way to Colorado? >> Take him. He's a grown adult. He's not a
child. She can't take him anywhere. And I literally just wrote here, "Jesus." And while the rest of Chris's family was
a little more supportive than his mom was, they still seemed to harbor resentment for this. Um, as they
prepared for the engagement party, Shannan asked Jaime, his sister, to help in planning, specifically asking her to
order the food, >> and she had told Jaime to order gluten-free food, and she failed to do
so, which resulted in Shannan not being able to eat anything at the >> at the engagement party for her.
>> Wow. Yeah, cool. >> Um Jamie maintains that it was a mistake and it was a it was a like
miscommunication >> that can happen. >> Um for sure it can happen. Yeah, >> just looking at, you know,
>> looking at both sides here. Uh but Sandy Shannan's mom suspects it was maybe could have been just in her opinion a
subtle attempt to punish her for what the Watts family did perceive as stealing Chris from them.
>> Yeah. uh cuz they made it pretty obvious that they felt like she had taken him
away. So, the tension between the families finally came to a head several months later. They believed Shannan was
controlling and overbearing and that she'd manipulated Chris to get her way when it came to all the decisions in the
relationship. That's just how they saw her. >> Okay. >> Uh when it all finally boiled over,
Chris had a falling out with his family over it. >> Years later, he said, "I blew up at my
family to the point where I said I didn't need any of them anymore because I have Shannan." And then are you ready
for So you hear that and you're like whoa like that you actually took a stance. No. Uh he said I don't know if
Shenan coached me to do it or if it was just rage like I'd never seen before. You don't know. He is such a [ __ ] ass
wet rag. Like I can't >> I'm sorry. Like you would know if she coached you to do that. There would be
instances where she would say, "Hey, freak out on your family. Hey, your family sucks."
>> So convenient of you to say that when Shenan cannot dispute that. >> Yeah. And also
grow the [ __ ] up. >> Yeah, >> you got So you stood up for her. I don't know if she coached me. I don't know.
You don't know. >> How do you not know? >> You [ __ ] idiot. You don't know. >> I can't.
>> He's so gross. Like he's so gross. >> He's just a wimp. >> He is gh It just makes me think of Randy
and Scream when he says, "Billy Lumis, what a [ __ ] ass wet rag in Scream Suit." That's literally what he feels
like to me. She coached you. Get a [ __ ] grip, you [ __ ] useless moose knuckle. So by April 2012,
>> not a moose knuckle. >> Yeah, a moose knuckle. A >> [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah, I said it. I stand I stand
by it. By April 2012, Chris had quit his job and moved in with Gina and Charlie, but he stayed in daily
contact with Shannan, who stayed behind to sell the house. And it turned out that the house took a little longer to
sell than they thought. And but by August, she finally found a buyer and even made a little bit of a profit on
the sale because she's a sales girl. >> Hell yeah. >> Uh with the house sold, she joined Chris
in Colorado. >> And they first shared a small bedroom in the Deetsz's basement until October 2013
when they bought the house in Frederick, Colorado. Okay. >> Which was a small town of about 15,000
people. Like a lot of people their age, Chris and and Shannan were into social media, you know, like especially at the
time. Um, and much of their lives together were documented and shared through like Facebook and Instagram.
>> Instagram had like just come out like right around that time. >> Did it really?
>> Yeah. I think Instagram came out my sophomore year of high school, which would have been like 2011, 2012.
>> That's crazy. >> Yeah. >> Um, but in the months leading up to the wedding too, they're they're planning a
wedding. Shannan shared just enthusiastic daily updates about wedding planning and she made a point of showing
off her engagement ring which was $10,000. >> Hell yeah. >> I was like >> crazy.
>> My engagement ring is gorgeous. >> That shocked me. >> It's not $10,000. >> Like that shocked like Okay. Like that.
Damn. I just like that like shocked me. I was like, >> how did people determine how much it
cost? >> I'm not sure. It's just in the documents. Now, around this time, tensions between the families had ramped
up. I mean, it was constant. >> Okay. >> Chris's mom, Cindy, literally told him she didn't think Shannam was good enough
for him and she didn't like how she treated him. And then when it came down to it, they decided not to come to the
wedding. >> His own parents didn't go to his wedding. >> Nope. And her reasoning, which um
there's like interviews that she's given or they have given during like the mom and the dad to people. In one of the
interviews, she literally says, "We didn't attend because Shannan and I just couldn't get along. I didn't like the
way she treated him. >> I'm sorry if you grow up. Grow up. You just can't get along."
>> That's nuts. >> So, you don't go to your only son's wedding. >> That's nuts in my opinion.
>> In my in my opinion. >> That's nuts. >> In my opinion, that's rough. >> Damn.
>> But and it's like what what does that do? >> Well, >> they're getting married regardless of
whether you're there or not. So yeah, what did it do? >> Oh man, >> all it does is add to tension.
>> This is messy. >> So the wedding day finally comes and despite people being jerks about it, uh
on it was on November 3rd, 2012. It was a modest ceremony at the Hilton in Charlotte, their family, most of their
family came and their friends, Shannan's brother Frankie recalled later, "I was crying, thanking God for him being in my
sister's life." >> Oh, wow. >> Now, cuz see, he could dupe everyone. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, now with the wedding
behind them, Chris and Shannan left for their honeymoon to Myrtle Beach. They actually were planning to go to Cancun,
but they had to change plans like at the last second because it was too expensive.
>> Oh, okay. >> Uh, which we've all been there. >> Looking back, Gina Deetsz recalls having
never seen either like people so in love. >> Wow. >> Uh, she said they were very happy. They
were newly weds and it was wonderful. And just a few months later, they got more happy news when Shannan discovered
that she was pregnant. years earlier, her doctors had actually told her, "You might have trouble getting pregnant
because of the lupus." Oh, really? So, this news was like even more exciting. >> Now, between the pregnancy and the new
house and the marriage, things were really going well for them. >> Um, like the leadup to the wedding,
Shannan wanted to document every step of her pregnancy, of course, from photos of
her growing tummy to shots of the baby's closet and bedroom as they were filling
it with toys and clothing. exciting. >> Um, Gina said before she and I even met,
she had clothes for her for firstborn. >> Uh, the constant photos and updates on
social media really would reflect this like this couple that's so excited about the birth of their child,
>> of course, >> and it did cuz they were both very very excited about this. But it also to some
people was looking like they were living beyond their means because they were like buying too much when they really
couldn't afford it. >> Okay. >> But I mean that's also none of our [ __ ] business. Um now back in North
Carolina, Chris and Shannan's combined income had been in like so that money really wasn't a problem for them.
>> Um >> well the cost of living I'm sure is also a bit cheaper. >> Yeah. Well, and now Shannan was only
making like a little over the national minimum wage while most of Chris's salary went to bills and the mortgage on
the new house at the time. So basically they were spending more money than they were making which the only reason why
this is important is because financial stress can be a factor in certain like arguments and marriage problems
>> but they didn't seem to worry because they were just putting things on credit
cards and just kind of like paying the minimum and going okay >> which can again become
>> if you're a young person listening you can pay more than the minimum. >> You can
>> I didn't know that when I was younger. I thought you were just supposed to pay
the minimum and I [ __ ] my credit at like 19 years old. >> I feel like 99.99% of people [ __ ] their credit up when
they're >> younger 20 >> cuz we don't teach people enough about it. >> No, we don't learn about it anymore.
>> And the system itself is complete [ __ ] >> It's literally designed to [ __ ]
>> The credit system is ass. It makes no sense. >> Even I'm like my credit score doesn't
make sense right now. >> No, it's ridiculous. >> No. On December 16th, 2013, after 16
hours of labor, Shannan gave birth to a baby girl named Bella Marie. >> Oh, that's a beautiful name.
>> She's so cute. Uh, a few weeks later, Ronnie and Cindy Watts, Chris's parents,
they came to Colorado to visit and meet their new granddaughter. >> Oh, that's nice.
>> Yeah. And Cindy had hoped they could leave the negative experiences in the past, but she wasn't willing to. So,
>> that's that's tough. That's a catch 22. >> Yeah. So, like, you could She was hoping
to do, but she couldn't. >> But she couldn't. She found it difficult to look past her feelings towards
Shannan. >> Grow up. >> Uh Cindy later recalled Chris always seemed anxious and when she needed
something, he would run. He wouldn't walk. He would run. It was very odd. >> Also, maybe he's anxious because of the
tension between the two. He is at all like >> like, "Okay, Cindy." Or he was just a
good husband >> and she was pregnant. Like she just had a baby, >> right? >> Like
>> hello. I'm I'm sorry he's being a good spouse at this time. It's almost like I'm like are are you not like what is
going on? It was very odd that he would go get a wife who just gave birth. Like >> sorry about it.
>> Regardless of what Cindy Watts felt or believed, those who knew Chris and Shannan knew them as a great couple. Um
what their friend Chris Landon told people later, they were the couple that you look at and then turn to your
husband and be like, "Why aren't we like that?" >> Wow. which is like shocking. They said
they seemed so supportive of each other. It was their public face. >> Uhhuh. Which is clear.
>> Yeah. >> Um in May, Chris found a new job as an oil field contractor for Covenant
Testing Technologies in nearby Greenley Gley. Um the change definitely came at the best time because all the money they
had been spending was definitely starting to catch up and this salary increase would go a long way towards
getting them out of that hole. They definitely had a lot of debt at this point. Yeah. But in January 2015,
Shannan learned that she was pregnant with their second child. Um, just as she'd done with the last pregnancy, she
wanted to document all this and she was documenting Bella's life and like all her milestones and she she was just
excited about it. >> To those following along on Facebook and Instagram, and what's really funny about
this right now is in my notes, it autocorrected Facebook to fake book. >> Fake book. And I didn't even do that
intelligent like intelligently. Um that's weird. >> That is weird. >> Everybody who saw them on Facebook and
Instagram would have thought they couldn't look more happy or more well adjusted as a couple. Behind the scenes
though, things were getting a little challenging. In addition to the growing financial problems that were just kind
of stacking on each other, Bella was reaching the age now where she could walk, so she needed a lot more
supervision. Once they start walking, all bets are off. >> Exactly. For the increasingly pregnant
Shenan, that becomes an issue. It's >> tough to keep up with. >> She couldn't get around very easily. And
Chris wasn't around as often as he was during the first pregnancy. The second pregnancy, if you're lucky enough, like,
and that's what you want to have a second pregnancy. >> It is tough because now all of a sudden,
the first one you're like, well, I don't have a child, so I can just I'm the queen of Sheba here. And it's like, but
the second one you're like, oh [ __ ] it's not >> I got to keep up with that one that I
already made. >> Like, it's not just about me now. Uh but couples, you know, and we've seen this
before, everybody knows this. People who obsessively post how happy they are online
>> are usually not that happy >> do tend to be trying to compensate for something or just trying to manifest
that happiness. Obviously, >> not always. I've seen some people who >> a lot of time it is the case.
>> But I we need to remember that social media, especially now, I mean back then
it was. Now I think it's a hundfold social media is complete [ __ ] I think back then it was definitely a
thing where like people who posted all the time would post how happy they were and like whatever and it might not be so
now it's almost 100% across the board I think now like it really is. >> So not to get super woo but a lot of
social media popped off when Neptune was in a really strong placement and Neptune
is the planet of illusions. >> Oh wow that's >> it's actually very fascinating. You can
go down like a deep hole on that. >> Yeah. And I think I assume when you're in a not happy situation or not even at
this point I don't think it was an unhappy situation. I think it was just a challenging and not ideal situation like
things aren't going exactly how you want them to overcompensate. >> I think you're overcompensating because
when people are telling you, "Wow, you're the cutest couple ever." >> Makes you feel better. Couple goals. I
want to be like that. Wow, this is so cute. Blah blah blah. your brain can start believing that that's true and
then it can kind of coast you into the next day kind of thing. It's almost like a just got to get to tomorrow and these
people will tell me I'm great. >> Well, and there's also studies about >> but it's so empty.
>> There are so many studies about what likes and comments do to our brain and it is similar.
The way that it stimulates your brain is crazy >> and it's scary. >> It is scary.
>> That's why like I know this isn't about this kind because we're talking about
this. I just want to say taking social media breaks is so healthy. >> I really encourage everybody to do it if
they can. >> When I I think I took a year off, that [ __ ] was great. >> It is. It's really It It makes you learn
to appreciate things that you're not appreciating right now. >> U But back to this. So, in order to help
with Bella and the soon to be born second baby, Shannan's parents moved into the finished basement in the Watts
house. >> Really? I didn't know that. >> Yeah, they for a short period of time they did. the addition like
>> well with two new people in the home it was Chris said it was stressful of course
>> but he also welcomed the help with Bella because now they have built-in grandparents to help out.
>> Um he later said when they first got here they didn't have a job and so they were around all the time
>> and sorry this is his parents right? >> No her parents. >> Oh her parents. Okay. Um my comment was
I thought that I mean any parents moving in I think is like child echo >> but the presence of her parents
according to him >> he felt like it put a strain on everything and they fought more than
they had in the past according to him >> allegedly. >> Yeah. >> I think it was just cuz he was an
[ __ ] personally. >> By July 2015 Shannan gave birth to their second daughter Celeste would be known
as Cece. >> Such a cute name. Um, she was born with an allergic swallowing disorder.
>> Oh. >> Uh, that required constant medical attention in the first year of her life.
>> Oh, that's really scary. >> Um, which is tough. That's really tough. >> When you also already have another
child, too. >> Yeah, it's really, really tough. So, um, they had also they had filed for
bankruptcy before this, which so it did wipe out a lot of the >> the debt that they were in. Uh, but now
there was going to be medical bills on top of that. Um, so even with the presence of her parents, Shannan was
finding it difficult to keep up with everything. During the day, she was taking care of the girls, trying to keep
up with the house. At night, she was working from home as an auditor for a local hospital. Uh, desperate to get
caught up on everything, in January 2016, she started working part-time as a rep uh a rep for a multi-level marketing
company selling an energy drink called Thrive. >> Okay. The job was mostly online and
thanks to her like she was pretty adept at social media at this point and really
good at sales. >> She was really good at it and she was able to navigate it really well.
According to her Facebook posts at the time, the Thrive was helping with her pain management as well and she had
stopped taking her lupus medication. >> Wow. The energy drink. >> Yeah. I have no I did not look into
Thrive at all so I don't know what it is. I'm not Who knows what it is, right? But the deeper Shannan got into
marketing Thrive online, the more she was kind of bringing Chris in for like sales pitches and like having be him be
a part of like videos and pictures. And Chris was actually using Thrive as well.
So he was commenting on like his experiences, how it was helping him with certain things. But his author John Glat
wrote something about the succession of grinning pictures of Chris was hollow. >> Huh.
>> And if you look at this man, he is hollow. >> He is very hollow. >> His eyes are so [ __ ] dead. I've never
seen anything like it. When I say the lights are on, but no one's home. Yeah. >> Like the lights aren't even on at this
point. >> Yeah. Like truly truly scary. Scary. Now, as Shannan's success with this continued to grow, she tried
to bring Chris on board as a sales rep. But he shockingly lacked the charisma necessary to succeed in sales,
>> which I know crazy. >> You never saw coming. You thought he'd be great at that.
>> He could knock me over with a feather. Chris said she put me underneath her >> so that
>> well she started this. >> She She's bringing you in, babe. >> Right. >> Uh and he said if I wanted to talk to
somebody at the mall or the pool about Thrive, I would just stumble all over my words. It's like, okay, so you're not
good at sales. >> Yeah. >> Who gives a [ __ ] >> Despite his struggles to grow his sales
here, Shannan continued to enthusiastically celebrate him on social media. She really strengthened that
outward appearance of this happy couple. Well, there was definitely some tension
underneath. >> Okay. >> Now, by the end of 2016, her social media presence became even bigger than
it had ever been. She was like really staying consistent posting because like that is how you do it if you want to
grow >> an audience to get paid to do this, which is what she was trying to do. >> Y
>> and she was posting a lot about Chris, too, because she I think she desperately
wanted this marriage to be what she thought it was, >> right? and she's posted one in late
November that was captioned, "My husband Chris, he is my biggest supporter. He's
an amazing father to our beautiful girls and the best husband ever." >> Wow. >> So, she was just like always trying to
pump him up. >> Yeah. >> In early 2017, Sandy and Frank um Shannan's parents packed up their things
and moved back to North Carolina. Like things had settled, >> seemed to even out. Um, by April,
Shannan was working on Thrive full-time, managing her own business and Chris's social media presence, operating like,
you know, both things at once. While it appeared to most people that things were
now going pretty well for the couple, Chris's mother, Cindy, said she could sense a growing tension between them.
>> Could she? >> So, other people thought it was fine, but she >> could she all the way from North
Carolina? That's crazy. Cindy said, "I've never seen her scream at Chris, but I'm sure there was something in
private >> because she because she always had that angry look on her face like she was
disgusted with him." >> You could be angry at somebody and not scream at them. And if you never saw any
evidence of her screaming at him, why would you think that she screamed at him? >> What I have to say is, you know what
they say about assuming Cindy? Something about ass. I don't know. >> Something about ass.
>> I don't know what I don't remember it. I don't remember the saying. >> I just don't think we should assume that
that that she's screaming at him in in private >> if you've never seen that happen.
>> Whether or not Cindy was right about her assessment of Chris and Shannan's relationship, she wasn't the only person
at this point that was noticing a change in the dynamic a little bit. In the late
summer of 2018, um a young woman named uh Nick Nicole Nikki Kessinger >> Kessinger.
>> Kessinger, I think, >> uh began working at the oil company where Chris worked. and his co-workers
couldn't help but notice uh Chris being a [ __ ] ugling creo loser [ __ ] face uh
and just staring at her. >> It's the worst when you see that your coworker has like that.
>> Yeah. When you see that your coworker is this ugling little >> creepfaced [ __ ] face
>> just a lech like that's that's what he looks like >> and he's staring at her all the time.
>> One coworker said Chris would be on his laptop and when she'd walk by he'd look
up and stare at her awkwardly. Ew. Which I'm like, what what got you about that girl? Like that I don't know if that
would do it for me, but okay. >> I know that that would not do it for me. >> Wouldn't do it for me. Now, although
their work should have shouldn't have really brought them in contact very often cuz they were on two separate
things like in this company. Before long, Chris seemed to be finding ways to casually run into Nicole around the
office. >> Imagine that. >> Um, she later said it was always hit or miss. It wasn't an everyday thing
>> in the beginning. Okay. Uh regardless, the attraction between them seemed to be
undeniable and Chris apparently didn't know what a divorce was. So >> good. >> Um in June 2018, Shannan excitedly
posted that she and Chris were expecting a third child. >> You know, >> his reaction in that post
>> Yeah. >> is bonkers in he literally goes, "Awesome. >> Awesome." >> If I told my husband I was pregnant and
he said, >> "Awesome." >> Yeah. Uh just one day after Shannan posted about her pregnancy, Chris and
Nikki spoke for the first time, >> uh she recalled he started talking about his kids and then she mentioned, "Yes, I
have." And he said, "Yes, I have a wife, but we're getting separated." >> Now, what's confusing for me is there
was this >> and then she said that at first he didn't say that he had kids. She didn't
find that out for a while. >> So, I'm not sure which one is stories. >> Yeah, I just I'm not sure which one is
correct. >> Okay. But yeah, he supposedly told her allegedly that he was getting separated
from his wife. If you look at the discovery documents, maybe um I guess you'll just have to
look at them and and kind of take what you will from that. >> Yeah. >> And also when asked, his mother said
that she didn't believe he was happy at all for the pregnancy, >> which is disgusting.
>> He knows how babies are made. He's made to you can avoid that if you're not excited to have another child. And if
you are planning on getting separated, >> maybe don't do that. >> Don't do that.
>> Yeah. Don't have another child if you are actually planning on separating. >> It's pretty simple.
>> Um, but Chris showed Nikki uh pictures of the girls, neglecting to mention that
there was another one on the way, which which that is correct. She found out in the media later.
>> Oh. >> She had no idea that she was pregnant, >> cuz that probably would have changed
things. I would hope at least. >> And she liked that he was an enthusiastic father or seeming to be.
Um, later that day she sent him an email thanking him for being honest about his
relationship status with his wife and she wrote, "Truthfulness is so underrated in our culture." And in his
reply, Chris commented he was a straightforward guy and that lying just complicates things.
>> Well, he's a really bad liar. So, I I do believe that he felt that way. >> It does complicate things. He's not
great at it. >> He's the He might be the worst liar on planet Earth. The polygraph examiner
literally congratulated him on how bad of a liar he was. >> Yeah. If you watched the interview that
he's doing, which we're going to get into. Lies, lies, lies, >> lies, lies, lies, lies.
>> Bad, bad, bad lies. >> He also in that same one told her how absolutely stunning he thought she was.
Excuse me while I vomit for an indefinite amount of time. >> Yeah, >> you [ __ ] piece of [ __ ]
>> I have a lot to say. >> You [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] Now, in the days that followed, uh, Chris and Nicole
continued exchanging. Now, this is the days that followed after his wife announced her third pregnancy.
>> Yep. >> They continued exchanging casual messages through their work email, but
after a week, they started texting and sending messages through less official channels.
>> Meanwhile, Shannan filled her days with, you know, trying to keep the house together.
>> Yeah. Working, >> posting about her pregnancy and like trying to work. On Father's Day, she
posted a long message about how devoted Chris is to their family and how lucky she was to have him, alongside a video
of Bella singing a special song she'd memorized just for him. Oh, >> Bella, who he smothered and shoved into
an oil tank, in case you don't know the case. >> That's horrific. >> I hate this man with every fiber of my
[ __ ] being. >> Same. Now later, Chris said of his relationship with Nicole, "I thought it
was just flirting. I didn't think that something would actually happen." And then ready for his like, "Oh god,
>> I've just never been pursued by anybody before." >> You weren't pursued by Shannan when you
guys got together. >> Shut the [ __ ] That little innocent doeyed baby boy act doesn't [ __ ]
work. Like, >> it's disgusting. >> Oh, I just never had a lady interested in me before. Like, gee golly, it was
just so neat. I couldn't relationship that you say you had before Shannan. You also
>> the [ __ ] up >> dated and married Shannan. >> He's such a waste of chromosomes.
>> But seeing how their relationship unfolded, it's kind of hard to accept that Chris was doing nothing more than
flirting cuz it ramped up pretty quick for flirting to be what you were thinking was happening here. Uh after
they stopped sending messages through work emails, Chris and Nikki began or Nicole, whatever, began taking steps to
communicate through means that wouldn't be discovered. But wait a minute. I thought he was he was separating from
his wife. I thought this was okay. >> So why would you not need to be discovered?
>> I don't know. I don't know. Uh at first, Chris gave Nicole the number for his
work phone, knowing that Shannan regularly checked his personal phone. >> Oh, >> why are you hiding it?
>> Yeah. >> Huh? Then a few days later, Nicole told him that they should start communicating
only through their private phones so no one at work would know they were talking.
>> Okay. >> Why? Why? >> I don't I thought this was okay. >> Weird. Um >> very strange. Uh but Chris may not have
set out to have an affair with Nicole um initially when he was just ugling her in
the in the office. >> He probably just didn't think it was possible. >> The precautions that they were taking in
order to keep their communication secret makes it hard to believe the whole thing
was uh flirting. >> Yeah. >> Seems weird. >> Yeah. I can't imagine that. >> I'd say so.
>> But hey, that's just me using Logic, which is something that both of them seem to treat as like an optional
subscription service. So, >> I don't know. I don't know. We're not on the same thing here. We're not on the
same playing field, I think. >> So, the more Chris and Nicole got to know each other, the more he shared
about his life with Shannan. She did say, Chris said that she was all about appearances in all aspects of life,
which so nice that you're talking [ __ ] to your mistress about your pregnant wife.
>> He said that Chenan pretended everything was fine and that they never argued anything like that.
>> Is she supposed to be posting your arguments on Instagram? >> I'm not really sure. Do you want her to
post what a [ __ ] stain you are? >> Um, it was about two years earlier that he said he felt like the marriage had
started to go bad for them. >> So, you should have separated. And Nicole, of course, said he tried he said
he tried to talk to her many times, but it fell on deaf ears. >> Okay, >> cool. The more time Chris spent with
Nicole, the more his troubles with Shannan seemed to fade into the back of his mind because now he's distracted. By
the end of July, the two of them were in constant communication, his mistress and
him. >> And they were sneaking off to hotels or Nicole's apartment whenever they could
find the time. >> Chris assured Nicole that he was getting a divorce. That's what is alleged. Um,
>> well, they always do. >> Yeah. So, they could finally be together, but until that happened, she
wanted to take things slow. >> Baby, you got to see divorce papers if you're going to get set up with a man
who's separated, quote unquote. >> Well, and she wanted to take things slow and maybe she did. I don't know. Maybe
take a look at the discovery documents and see. I don't know. Maybe they to me they were a little they they made me a
little confused by the whole thing. But >> maybe we just have different different
definitions of slow. Maybe. Who knows? >> I don't know. >> Who can be sure? I wasn't there.
>> Yeah. >> So, she said he was like in fifth gear the entire time. Maybe it was up to me
to hit the brakes, but he was so kind to me. Why was I going to push him away? >> Cuz he was married and his wife was
pregnant. >> I literally wrote because he was married with children. Nicole, >> that's why.
>> Nicole, it's pretty simple. Babe, >> I got to tell you, when a guy is telling
you, "No, I am going to divorce my wife." >> He's not. >> And even if he is, cool. Then he will
wait until he does like that. It just he can't have his cake and eat it too. >> You'll sleep better.
>> You will. That's the thing. And it's like I'm not saying this is her fault. I'm not saying anything like that. So
like calm your tits. >> I'm just saying it just for you. You're like don't let him have his cake and eat
it too. >> Take care of that situation and then you can feel good about going forward.
That's just my opinion on the whole thing. >> Don't be the other woman. Be the mean
[ __ ] >> Exactly. >> That's my motto. And you just like he's not he's gonna keep telling you that.
>> Exactly. >> And you don't want to be listening to him like that. No. Make him prove it.
>> Yeah. >> Like that's the thing. It's like if he really is unhappy in that relationship
and they are together not happy then they will divorce or separate and you will be able to continue a relationship.
It just doesn't it's always messy when you are going to get involved before their divorce. At least from what I have
seen in my life. That is just my experience >> personal like what I've seen. That's
all. Okay. I'm not saying I'm an expert on this. I'm not saying anything like that.
>> No, it's just >> just saying >> just just that. >> Now, July 24th, this is directly from
the discovery documents, which we will link in the show notes. >> So, it is fact.
>> This is official. Uh July 24th, 2018, uh Nicole Google's quote, "Man I'm having
an affair with says he is leaving his wife." >> Oh. July 25th, 2018. Chris Googles, are
you ready? When to say I love you. When to say I love you in a new relationship.
What do you feel when someone says I love you? And how does it feel when someone says I love you?
>> Okay, let's save the ladder, too. When do you say I love you in a new relationship? When you're divorced.
>> Yeah. >> When you're officially going through the process of getting divorced.
>> Um and also >> when you and your wife are living separately. >> Why are you asking what human emotions
feel like? Like what? Why are you asking that? Why are you asking a search engine?
>> Babe, you have kids and you don't know what love feels like. >> You You've been with somebody and
married and you don't know what love feels like. >> We can laugh and joke. Like obviously
there's a lot to laugh and joke about there, but it actually at its very core is so scary.
>> It is horrifying >> that he asked Google, "What does it feel like when somebody says, "I love you."
>> Well, no. And you and later in one of the interviews, his mom says like he's not the psychopath. Like he's not a
sociopath. I'm not armchair diagnosing here cuz I I don't know what he is. He's something though.
>> You have to ask Google what it feels like when somebody says, "I love you." As a grown person who's been in loving
relationships or what seem like loving relationships, >> you >> what? Like as a father,
>> I I'm like, "What do you feel when your kids tell you?" >> He's not even saying like, "What does it
feel like when someone loves you?" He's saying like, "What does it feel like when someone says I love you?" Right.
>> People have said they love you. >> Why don't you know what that feels like? >> But apparently it doesn't penetrate him.
>> That's It's so scary. >> It is chilling. >> Yeah. Now, the discovery document also
shows that Nicole was googling both Shannan and Chris's Facebooks for long periods of time in
intermittently. Okay. So, then wouldn't she be seeing the videos where Shannan is saying what
a great father and husband that Chris is? That's that's what I'm a little confused about. And again, I'm not
claiming anything here. I'm just saying like what I I do wonder what were you thinking when you were seeing her
posting these. But then again, if I'm going to give the the devil's advocate here, then I'm going to say, well, okay,
she's seeing those. She's probably going to Chris and being like she's all about
appearances. >> And he's like, well, she's just about social media and appearances. Of course,
she's posting that. >> Oh, man. >> Cuz this is what this guy does, you know. >> Yeah. Now whether or not you know
Shannan by all accounts and from the discovery documents when you could see their text messages between each other
it didn't seem like she knew that he was having an affair. It seemed like she was
suspecting it. >> Okay. >> And she just didn't of course didn't want to know. >> Yeah. But that summer she had to know
something changed between them because it was definitely happening. It's very evident that she was understanding that.
Uh Chris was never great at communication, which is not a shock, but the more time he spent with Nicole, the
less he seemed to have anything to say to Shannan. Uh by mid July, it seemed that even his commitment to secrecy had
started to slip because on more than one occasion, he stayed the night at Nicole's apartment.
>> What the [ __ ] Didn't come home to his pregnant wife and two children. >> Two children.
>> That's [ __ ] >> And by the end of July, they had expressed their love for each other. So
that Google started >> So Google said July sounds good. Uh, and he vowed again to divorce his wife so
they could be together, but he hadn't yet. Now, throughout much of the summer, Shannan and the girls were actually in
North Carolina visiting family. Chris had found an excuse to stay behind in Colorado. Of
>> course, he did. >> So, he could be with Nicole. >> Yeah. >> Uh, those weeks that Shannan was away
were, according to Chris, the freest he had ever felt in years without his children
>> and away from his pregnant wife. And the thought of that coming to an end was so
deeply frustrating. >> That's so scary. He spent the entire time with his mistress. And in the later
interviews with police, she said that they had to lie to the babysitter so she wouldn't know where they that they were
be together. When they came home from this trip, Shannan went on a work trip and he was still going out with his
mistress and having the babysitter babysit the kids and telling them that he was going on to work things.
>> What the [ __ ] and she knew that. >> I'm going to keep my comments to myself.
>> Now, back to the North Carolina trip with the girls and Shannan being gone. Shannan was looking forward to returning
home from this trip. Uh, she wanted to see Chris. She wanted to talk about things. Um, but during the trip, if you
again look at the discovery documents where there's all the text messages, it's pretty [ __ ] heart-wrenching. The
discussions between the two are is her literally begging him to give her anything. Just any kind of confirmation
that he loved her, confirmation that he was excited to have another baby. >> While she's carrying his child, she's
begging him for confirmation that he loves her. >> And at one point, she says, "How do you
fall in love with out of love with someone in 5 weeks?" >> Oh my god. >> And she's literally saying to him, "This
came out of nowhere." >> Right? >> Like literally came out of nowhere. She said when he when she showed back up, he
was cold and distant again. And she was saying this to friends, like texting them because he was a spineless little
thumb and he should have just said, "I want to get separated." >> Yep. >> Now, the first two weeks of August were
a huge departure from the norm in the house. The more Chris pulled away from Shannan, the more she was just begging
him to open up and talk to her about what was wrong. And as far as she could tell, everything had been fine when she
left for North Carolina. And she said now that he was home, he wanted nothing to do with her. Like, didn't even want
to touch her. She told a friend that it felt like it came out of nowhere. She kept asking over and over like how do
you fall in love with out of love with somebody so quickly and August 4th, which is in the
beginning of August where we are right now where this is all falling apart. >> Nicole searched wedding dresses for two
hours. >> Oh [ __ ] >> For two hours. That's according to the discovery documents.
>> What the [ __ ] Now, between all of this are multiple texts again where Shannan
is upset and begging him for anything. She says they were all over each other when she left and couldn't get enough of
each other. And she's like, "And then all of a sudden you don't want anything to do with me." That's how quickly he
from somebody else. >> He had five weeks of his mistress and now he has shut off everything to
Shannan. Like he she says he would barely kiss her at the airport. Oh, and during some of the most emotional texts
that she's sending, these big long blocks of texts where she's spilling her entire heart out, Chris Watts was
googling the distance between Moon and Earth. >> What? Yeah. >> What? his pregnant wife is spilling her
heart out to him, begging him just to tell her that it's okay and that he loves her and that he's going to take
like that they're going to be a family and that all of this and he is sitting there googling in the middle of these
texts what's the different distance between Earth and the moon. >> So she literally meant nothing to him at
this point. He is >> he's to be that unbothered unbothered >> while your pre I can't express this
enough like I cannot >> your pregnant wife and mother of your already two born children is begging you
to give her anything and you're doing a science experiment. >> Yeah. He went he didn't answer one at
one point when she was just going on and on and on and she goes she literally said I'm your pregnant wife is spilling
their heart out to you and our marriage is crumbling before us and you're just falling asleep.
>> He's not even falling asleep >> and he and at that point I think he did >> he's applying for an internship at NASA.
What the [ __ ] Like what is wrong with you? August 8th, 2018. According to the discovery documents, we're our official
record. Um, Nicole searched quote, "Marrying your mistress." >> Oh, so she to call yourself the mistress too is
like, >> well, it implies, you know, >> of course it does. >> I'm just saying that that search
implies, you know, >> I'm not saying I'm covering my ass here. I'm not saying anything. But
>> um Shannan at this point was also googling um because she had come home and when she came home they went through
a lot. They were going through everything. But then Shannan said like they were having good discussions when
she got home. They were starting to talk through things. He was still being cold
and distant and he was still saying some things like I don't know what's going on
in my head. >> And she was googling emotionbased couples therapy. She was googling
different couples therapy things. She was like really trying to fix this whole thing,
>> which like I can only imagine like you know how it feels to be pregnant. Like
I'm sure your emotions are high already in a perfect marriage >> and then to have this [ __ ] as your
partner. >> Like that she doesn't need to be under that much stress. >> Now August 9th, Shannan went on a work
trip to Arizona and again she was in a much better mood where and she was talking to friends saying that you know
she was having discussions. He had told her he loved her again because he wasn't
saying that before, >> but she said he was still cold. And at the same time that this is going on that
she's texting her friends that things are getting better, he was transferring pictures of Nicole onto a secret
calculator app on his phone. He does that often. >> Okay. >> They sent a lot of pictures to each
other. And he had a secret calculator app which he would keep them in so Shannan couldn't find them. And those
things get transferred into that app during the weirdest [ __ ] times. Let me tell you, go take a peek at those
discovery documents and read the text messages. >> So that's an app designed to look like a
calculator that you can like hide [ __ ] in. >> I suppose I did not look it up even
exists. >> It's just called a secret calculator app in the discovery documents and I didn't
look any further than that. >> You need to look at what a secret calculator. >> I was I was like I don't know that this
exists. >> Is that like designed for cheating? probably pisses me off >> cuz it's probably like looks like a
calculator. So, it's like you would never >> I'm looking at >> But remember, if you have an iPhone,
there's only one calculator on there. >> Yeah, >> it is a thing. They're vault apps
disguised, this is from Google, as functional calculators to hide photos, video files, and notes behind a pin.
>> Why do those exist? These apps operate with a private password. >> What the? So he was
>> he transferred photos particularly of Nicole into that app several times. >> Yeah.
>> And in the middle of very intense, very emotional conversations with his wife.
>> One of these apps you can hide photos and videos. It includes a secure browser
so you can like separately Google crazy [ __ ] >> Wow. >> Notes and the ability to take new
pictures directly into the app. >> Wow. I did not know that was a thing. >> You can even put You can even put
contacts in there. >> You know who did know that that was a thing? Chris Watts. >> Chris Watts.
>> Wow. >> Meanwhile, as he's doing that, Shannan had ordered a book on Amazon about
talking through problems as a couple >> and like finding love together again. >> Oh my god.
>> When it was delivered, she was in Arizona and got a notification that it was delivered. So, she was like, "Go
check the mail." They found that book in the garage in a trash can. >> Are you [ __ ] kidding He's disgusting.
>> So, while the time now while she's in Arizona on this work trip, they had very
nice text messages back and forth with each other. They were talking about the girls, saying they loved each other
during this time, calling each other like he called her Boo. Like, they were like very sending pictures of the girls
to each other, commenting on the girl, like talking about the new baby days before, hours before he would murder
them all. And at the same time, he was also hanging out with the the mistress and lying like lying to the babysitter.
Yep. >> That was during that trip. >> Yep. >> Awesome. >> That now on August 11th, Nicole and
Chris went to dinner. And usually, now this is when uh in Arizona. And usually, according to Nicole, he paid for dinner
with gift cards to hide it from his wife because remember he's divorcing her, but
>> she can't know about this. But that night, he used a credit card and she was shocked by this and took it as a sign
that he was really ready to leave her. I take it as a clear indication that he didn't plan for it to be a problem
anymore. I It's so crazy that you just got to this part of the story cuz I was just thinking to myself, at what point
did he decide to murder her? >> Feels like it might have been here. >> Yeah. >> It's at the very least very highly
suspect to me. >> Yeah. that he's, you know, and I understand that Nicole took it as like,
okay, he's ready to >> she's not going to think he's going to murder his wife. >> Yeah, of course.
>> Like, no, nobody thinks that way. >> I'm sitting here saying looks to me like
he didn't think it would be a problem. I don't know what he was thinking there, but
>> that's so scary. >> In the discovery documents, you will also see that he regularly frequented my
prepaidenter.com, which was a prepaid visa site where you could reload onto that. So, he was only using gift cards
usually. >> Uh, in recovered text, this is just a side thing because it shows you how
[ __ ] weird he is in a text recovered from their phones, which by the way, Nicole and Chris deleted a lot of their
texts when he was arrested, >> but they still found them. >> Of course, they did. You can't delete
>> text actually deleted, >> but they show in the discovery documents which ones were deleted. And she also
deleted all his stuff off her phone when they brought her in for questioning. >> Yikes.
>> But that's just fact. Um he also called her his sexy empanada. >> No. >> At one point, and here's the thing, I
just stumbled on that one. I I How could I ever be looking for that? >> An empanada is like a meat pie.
>> Thank you. I just thought that was it. It popped. I 11:30 at night last night.
I'm sitting there scrolling like a [ __ ] goblin through these discovery documents. like the text that popped up
and I said, "I'm sorry, what?" >> He was super socially awkward. >> That's the thing. Like, who's call sexy
to be a to be a pet name? >> Like, get out of here. >> If you ever called me his sexy empanada,
I'd be like, "What did I do to upset you?" >> Literally, I'd be like, "What is that?"
Like, "Why are you trying to insult me? >> Like, are you all right? >> Sexy empanada."
>> Had to throw that in there because it was just so absurd. >> What? Um, and again, I highly highly
suggest that if you um if you have some time on your hands to take a peek through the discovery documents because
they really do give you such an overview of what was going on, what >> Well, I do
>> what they were searching, what they were talking about, things between him and
Shannan. It gives you a better picture of Shannan and his relationship. >> What I was just going to say is besides
what other people were putting on it. so many rumors when it comes to this case and it's sad discovery because a lot of
them are like a lot of people [ __ ] on Shannan and say she was doineering and she was this and she was that. So I
agree with you. Go look at the discovery. >> Yeah, cuz no matter what I don't give a
[ __ ] She didn't deserve to be murdered. >> And also >> I don't care if she was doineering. Like
who knows? I don't know. I wasn't in the relationship. She doesn't deserve to be
murdered. >> Of course not. And clearly she was blindsided by this whole thing. >> Well that and that's what I mean. like
the discovery documents really give you a clearer picture of what their relationship was and like what how they
were talking to each other, right? >> And it's like it doesn't matter what what the relationship was like or what
she was like or whatever. She's not here to to negate that to say what was happening or speak on it. So, it's
really [ __ ] up to be like, well, she was doineering. Okay, so he should strangle her to death, right,
>> in front of her children? Like, is that really what we think here? Like, come
on, get a grip. Now, in the at the early morning hours of August 13th, 2018, Shenan returned home from the work trip
in Arizona. She had sent him a text before taking off on the plane that said, "Finally on plane and about to
take off. Prayers for a safe flight. Love you." And he didn't respond. >> Nice. >> Pregnant wife was getting on a plane
home and didn't respond. >> Wow. after being dropped off at the house um by her friend Nikki Atinson, Nicole
Atinson >> because he couldn't bother to go pick her up from the airport. >> Um I'll give him this. It it was very
late. It was in the middle of the night and the girls were home. >> Okay. >> So he would have had to take them out at
like 1:00 in the morning. So I'll give him that. >> All right. >> But she went inside leaving her suitcase
by the front door and she walked up to bed trying not to wake the girls. Hours later, Shannan's friend, friend of the
century. Yeah. >> Hours later, Shannan's friend, friend of the century, Nicole Atkinson, called
Shannan's phone to check in. Shannan had missed an appointment with her OBGYn. >> That's why I said earlier, it's very
interesting that he used to manage her doctor's appointments. >> Well, once he got distracted.
>> Yeah. Clearly wasn't doing anymore. >> And she So, she missed the appointment
and she hadn't responded to any of their texts. So Nicole was getting worried. Um
when she couldn't get a hold of Shannan by phone, Nicole Atinson went to the house and found it empty. Uh but she
found Shannan's car there. Her shoes that she always wore were by the door. She could see them and she was like,
"Something's off." So she assumed Chris was at work, but Shannan and the girls were nowhere to be seen. So concerned
about her friend, she called Chris at work, but he said he hadn't seen Shannan since she got home earlier that morning.
So, a group of her friends all band together to text Chris their concerns. They She had friends, let me tell you.
Her friend Cassandra, who like goes by Cassie, texted him about it. And her uh his response was, "She went to a
friend's house with the kids. She won't tell me where, though. When I got home, I'll update you."
>> What? She won't tell you where. >> What? And like her friends are texting you. I would assume that they may know
her other friend. Well, that was what was immediately suspicious to them because like who is this friend? What
the [ __ ] do you mean? >> This is her friend group. >> So, they pressed. >> They didn't let it go.
>> They said they knew that the the couple was having issues and that Shannan was
in a bad way emotionally because of this and they were worried. He was most concerned about them not thinking he was
a bad guy. Meanwhile, this is hours out of him murdering his pregnant wife and children, by the way. But he doesn't
want her her friends to think he's a bad guy. >> But Shannan's the one that's all about
appearances. Cassie responds, "Queen [ __ ] Right now, I don't care about you or your relationship or what
type of person you are or not or what you what I think of you. I'm not trying to be rude when I say that."
>> And she was like, "But just what the [ __ ] going on?" She was like, "I literally don't care about you and I
don't care about your like" Like, they were like, "We don't even like you. >> We just care about Shenan."
>> Meanwhile, during this, he was texting a realer about their unfinished basement.
>> What? >> Yeah. discovery documents. Cassie told him her only concern was quote for his
damn wife and her well-being. >> Good. >> And then she let him have it. She told
him Nikki was calling the police. Nicole, she was calling the police and said, "So unless you want the police to
bust your damn door down, you get home and check on your family." >> Period. >> Queen [ __ ]
>> Period. >> Queen [ __ ] Chris was desperate for them not to call the police. He begged them
not to. He said he was coming home and they were like, "Fuck you." >> Cuz what? Like your wife and children
are missing. Why are you begging us not to call the police? >> Exactly. So Nikki Atkinson called the
Frederick Police Department to report Shannan missing and asked that they go to the house to conduct a well-being
check. >> Yeah. >> Also, there was a group chat with Shannan's friends and her in it. And one
of them said at the time, "The police are here and they need to check Chris's phone and computer."
>> Wow. >> Here's the thing. If I went missing, I tell you right now, I know for a fact
>> that none of my friends first reaction would be, "John did it." Nope. Same. >> If your first reaction is that heavily,
I think he might have done it. >> He's done it. Like at the very least, he's a piece of [ __ ] Like that.
>> I can guarantee. I even said this in front of Deb and every I was like, would
you have thought to check John's phone and computer? She was like, nope. That would not even cross my mind.
>> Like, that's bad. And during all of this, his mistress Nicole called him and he called her several times, but on both
ends they had deleted the calls. Sus. Which, like, why did you do that? >> Sus. Also, during this time, during this
time, during this time, during this time, hours after what we find out later, he had killed his pregnant wife
and his three and fouryear-old daughters. He had, we'll get into it later, don't worry. He had buried
Shannan's body in an oil field and he had shoved the bodies of his three and four yearear-old daughters into an oil
tank >> that they could barely fit into. >> And now during the time when her friends are now
freaking out and he knows what he's done, he sent one final image of his mistress to that secret calculator app.
Are you [ __ ] kidding me? It's in the discovery documents. What the [ __ ] dude? I was
speechless. That takes an evil like I can't comprehend. >> Yeah. >> And also, what are you hiding it from?
>> Well, that's what are you doing? >> Do you think that the police don't see those?
>> Well, that's the thing. I'm like, I think he thought that would be like secret from everybody. Wow. What a
[ __ ] [ __ ] >> Because it's a wind tunnel up there. >> It is a wind tunnel up there. Wow.
>> That is just so diabolical. Your children >> are submerged in an oil tank and your
pregnant wife and unborn child are in the dirt at your work >> and you're sitting there sending spicy
images to a secret [ __ ] file. You just killed three children and your wife. >> Like I'm just like my brain literally
can't comprehend. >> You just annihilated your entire family. Let's call it what it is.
>> Well, that's and maybe it's because this case in particular, one, it's so brutal
and so unthinkable, but two, we have those discovery things and we have so much documentation of every movement of
it that you can really see everything in real time about his dayto-day that it's
just like whoa. Cuz a lot of cases we don't get that. We don't get the >> fullown
>> what's he doing while this is all happening and you get to see this and it's just like oh my god
>> the lack of humanity. >> It's something about that just like threw me for a >> like those are your children.
>> Yeah. >> Those are your children. And the discovery showed that um Nicole Kessinger uh also spent four hours
searching the internet for Chris Watts Shannan's disappearance and things like it, but she deleted it.
>> Okay. >> She also searched >> She also searched and again this is all in there. I'm not
>> Yeah. >> She also searched can cops uh find deleted deleted text messages. >> Yes.
>> How long do phone companies keep text messages? >> And then she deleted all of that. girl.
>> No, >> I'm sorry. The people that think that when you delete something from the
internet that it's just Where do you think it goes? >> Like you don't think they can recover
anything. >> It's such simple thinking. It really is. >> I know that like because of what we do
like we're so much more privy to that kind of information. But like I think even when I was a teenager, I didn't
like get into crazy [ __ ] cuz I was that like cuz I'm normal, but also like >> cuz I'm normal.
>> I know that everything can be tracked. I just don't get the And also, it's just
like and it looks suspicious no matter what. Even if you have nothing to do with anything, just don't do that. It
just doesn't look good. >> No. >> So, an officer arrived at the Watts house a little after 1:30 p.m. And with
Chris's permission, he entered the house. As um Nikki Atinson had said, there was no sign of Shannan and the
girls. More concerning was that while Shannan herself was missing, her car, phone, and wallet were all still inside
the house, and her suitcase was still by the front door. Nothing else in the house appeared to have been disturbed,
there was no sign of break-in because he had killed them. >> Uh-huh. >> Upstairs in Chris and Shannan's bedroom,
they found her wedding ring on the bedside table, >> which I think he planted. >> I It makes sense. Now, to be clear, he
let them in, but first, he went through the garage and made them wait for several minutes before letting them in.
>> Yeah. So now their neighbor Nathaniel Trina Stitch, who I will refer to as Nate,
>> homie of the century, >> another hero here. There's so many people that really came out
>> came through >> to really push this thing way further, way quicker than it probably would have
if they had not been honestly like it it takes a lot of like hutbah >> to like stick your neck out.
>> Yeah. >> And these people investigation when like you're literally in the room with cops.
>> Yeah. It's like very impressive. That can be intimidating because I it's that's hard and I'm glad that these
people did. >> So Nate, the Watts neighbor, called police inside of his home to show them
security camera footage that had a great view of Watts's driveway >> as well as the road in front of all the
houses. Chris had no idea that there was a clear shot of his truck pulling in and
out of the driveway that morning. >> Wow. >> And if you watch the body cam footage of
him watching this, he is freaking the [ __ ] out. I have never seen his hands are folded on top of his head and
extended to his sides like he can barely breathe >> swaying back and forth. >> He's losing his reaction is so guilty.
You can tell in this moment that he said, "I'm caught. >> He's got his It's wild." Like, and then
every now and then he'll just stop watching the footage and look at his phone. I have a question because I asked
John this and he was like, "Are you [ __ ] kidding me? If I was like, if if I was missing and our children weren't
missing and our neighbor said, "I have security camera footage of the whole outside of your house of the time that
she has been gone." >> Glued to it. >> You would be looking at every [ __ ] pixel on there hoping to see something.
>> You would be glued to it. Yep. >> He barely looks at it. He keeps looking away. He keeps looking at his phone.
>> Aren't you waiting to see if someone came and stole your whole family? >> No, cuz he knows that nobody did. I just
like I like you would never look away from that. >> You can find this video by the way and
go watch this video. >> Uh we'll see if we can post one of them. >> I think Drew and I were talking about it
cuz he Drew is not even super into true crime, but he remembers this case and he
was like I remember that being like one of the craziest breaks in this case. >> Oh yeah, I showed John. He was shocked.
He's losing it. His eyes are bugging. He's swallowing hard. His voice is shaking. And he tells the cops several
times that he had been bringing tools out to his truck a lot. And Nate is watching this [ __ ] and also
contradicting everything he said. Like Nate is not afraid to be like, "No, not true."
>> So when the detective rolls up, Nate has already checked the footage to see if
Shannan left the house during the time period she's been missing or if someone else showed up and left with her.
>> Nope. >> And he tells the detective right away, "No one is caught on that camera." And
he says, "I would have caught it." One of the people in the house says that they only have Chris pulling up to right
up to his garage. And they were like, "Why did you pull right up to the garage? does that.
>> And he immediately gets defensive and is still trying to say he just has so many
tools that he was loot loading so many tools loading just tools all over the place. Did I mention tools and loading
them into my truck because I did that. I do that. It's my thing. Like he literally mentions these tools and
loading them a hundred times. >> And he's also looking at his phone, but you can see he's doing that thing that
you do to not have to look anyone in the eyes. Like it's why like where you're just like pretending to be on your
phone. Like you can see while he's beeping and booping that it's the move you make when you're uncomfortable in
public and you just want to like look busy. >> So you just kind of like open and close
apps on your phone and don't actually do anything. He's doing that. >> We've all done it, but we haven't all
been doing that to cover the fact that our neighbor just cracked the case of us annihilating our entire family 6 hours
earlier. He's a [ __ ] idiot. Um, during this, Nate absolutely destroys Chris's nervous system further by
explaining that his camera actually picks up anyone coming down the street from any direction. So, if someone left
or if someone came, they would have got it on camera. And then he just clicks it
back on and says, "And this is him at 517." While this happens, did you think Chris
would miss another opportunity to mention him loading tools? >> No. >> Don't worry, he's still talking about
loading tools. The problem here is that he isn't looking at the footage. He won't look at the footage.
>> So, he wouldn't know what he was doing. >> I would be crouched down just staring at
this footage trying to find something. Nate just keeps reiterating that if he he would have seen someone on this tape
if there was any action at this house. And he even shows them the previous night where it caught cars coming from
each direction. >> He's like, "Oh, and look at this day three days ago where it caught somebody
coming from this direction." He is not. >> This security system doesn't quit much
like myself. >> He said, "Hell yeah, let's He said, "This [ __ ] is weird and you should be
seeing this." >> So they see him loading Shenana and the children into the garage.
>> They see So that's the What he did was he pulled He backed up into his driveway. He opened the garage and he
backed up. So the bed of the truck is in the garage. >> He put Shannan in the bed of the truck
and then he brought the girls into the truck. So, can does the footage show him putting the kids in the truck at like a
weird >> You can't see it because it's like on the other side of the So, you see him
going in there, >> but and you can see that he's doing something. >> Now, at this point, the detective is
speaking to his radio, like talking to another detective. And Chris is like, "Do they need me next door? Should I
leave? Should I go? Should I get out of here? Get >> the [ __ ] out of there." >> And the cop is like, "No." But he just
wants to get the [ __ ] up out of there so badly. He's so upset at this point. He
is like cracking and then something incredible happens. >> This is next level. You can't tell me
that some force is not at work here. >> Like >> you cannot tell me. >> This is incredible. Right next to Chris
as he looks away, the screen changes. It's a American Horror Story commercial. >> Mhm.
>> It's a commercial showing a fetus in a womb. Chris looks over right as it appears and
he stares at it for a second and then he looks up at the cop and he has a look. He looks like he's about to puke. Yep.
>> And he says she was pregnant too. >> Like it it like made him confess that >> and he says that this and as he says
that the screen next to him changes to an explosion like a mushroom cloud which so weird for that to happen. and then a
skull being covered by oil. What are the odds of that? >> What are the odds that those two images
were next to each other? >> And that's just like a lapse in Nate showing the security camera footage.
>> That's just him like clicking back out of it and into it again. >> By happen stance, that commercial was
playing. >> Yeah, >> that's not happen stance. That is Oh, that is some [ __ ] universal [ __ ] at
work. And when Chris turns his entire body away from the TV at this point, it's wild. He's sweating. He honestly
sounds out of breath and like his voice is trembling all of a sudden. He was affected by it.
>> How could you not be? >> It was unbelievable. But when >> And also, I'm sorry for him to go and
she's she's pregnant as well. >> You didn't mention that at the top of the [ __ ] day when you when she got
reported missing. >> Yeah. >> Why is that just coming up? >> Hello. Now, when Chris does well, he
didn't report her missing. So, >> but like all we're this far into this where the neighbor's like, "Oh, I have
security camera footage." And you still haven't told your the cops that your wife missing is pregnant.
>> He doesn't care. >> That's just bonkers. Like, be better at >> Oh, he >> You could say be better at a lot of
things. He sucks at all of this. >> It's nuts. When Chris does leave finally, when he's like when you know
fate shines upon him and lets him out of that house, >> Nate immediate, he literally watches him
leave, waits for the door to shut, looks right at the detective and says, "He's not acting right.
>> He's not." >> He points out the inconsistencies, the lack of video showing anyone coming or
going besides him. the fact that he never loads tools in and out of his garage and points out his body language,
how he didn't look worried. He kept overexplaining the loading tools into the truck thing. And the fact that,
according to Nate, quote, "He's normally quiet, real subdued. He's over here telling you three times what he took out
and what he did, what he did, what he did. He never talks." So, the fact that he's over here blabbing his mouth makes
me kind of suspicious. His neighbor literally gave that detective a [ __ ] gift because he hammered him in front of that
detective. Yep. >> And made it so much easier to see what was going on here. >> He also says that they were clearly
having problems when Shannan left for vacation for 5 weeks. And he said him and his wife were actually worried that
something had happened to her during those 5 weeks. That's telling. >> It is. >> It's unbelievable footage to be honest.
It's truly unbeliev the entire thing. What's important though is how Shenan's friends [ __ ] did the damn thing. Her
neighbors, her friends, like Nate, >> everybody, >> they didn't let up. They put pressure on
him. And within like 6 hours of him killing his entire family, he was having to answer for it already.
>> He had no time to formulate a fake story or try to cover something up like he
thought he would have. >> He was finding himself with his feet held firmly to the fire right away. And
he was [ __ ] up. That night, he facetimed his mistress. >> Hello. >> According to the discovery, he said she
said he was sitting on a bare mattress when he did. And she asked where the sheets were and he was all ky and said
he just wanted to wash them. >> Why would you want to wash the sheets when your wife went missing from that
house and your children did allegedly? >> Which, by the way, he murdered Shannan
in their bed. Y. So, she said he was quiet and that he just kind of stared at her during the call.
>> He loves to just >> He's such a [ __ ] lech. Like, he's such a weird creepy [ __ ] Also, remember
his whole family is missing, quote unquote, and he's facetiming his mistress >> in his room.
>> Like, that would put that would give me pause. >> Excuse me. In him and his wife's room.
>> Like, that would give me a lot of pause. Now, according to discovery documents as
well, on August 13th, uh Nicole, his mistress, found out through the media that his wife was pregnant. She did not
know before. >> Oh, so she found out that day that Shannan went missing. >> And she confronted him about it. And his
response was to ask, "Does this ruin our relationship?" >> The fact that your missing wife and two
children and unborn child are missing. >> No, he was just concerned with >> Also, Shannon was only, I believe, like
>> 15 weeks. Yeah. 15 weeks. So, >> like, do the math there, babe. Like, >> he had a relationship with both of you.
>> And also, it's just like you're saying Shannan is all about appearances. All you gave a [ __ ] with her friends about
was, "Don't think I'm a bad guy. Don't think I'm a bad guy." And now to Nicole, your mistress, you're saying like, "Does
this ruin everything? I don't want it to ruin everything. >> You still want to pursue somebody while
your whole family and children are missing?" And Nicole even said like Kessinger even said that at this time he
did not seem concerned for his family and instead was solely focused on their relationship.
>> That had to have been scary. >> Yeah. And I think it was for her. Also, there was some talk about like should I
pawn her wedding ring >> that was going on during this time. I don't know exactly what was said, so I
won't pretend I do, but there was like some talk of that. >> Why would you pawn her wedding ring?
>> Exactly. She's just missing. >> On August 14th, he the next day he gave what is quite possibly the most damning
and guilty interview with the Denver ABC affiliate station that I have ever or will ever see in my life.
>> We were pausing at certain parts like just like to move on to the next thing.
And he if you pause, he will be full-blown smiling ear to ear at certain points.
>> I have watched this video like a hundred times at this point. And then I watched
this um there's this umangage clinical psychologist and body language expert Dr. G on he's on Tik Tok and on YouTube
I think um we'll link him because he's I think he's fascinating. >> Um he's really good at like analyzing
these things because he doesn't go overboard and he'll say like hey don't pay attention to this thing this isn't
really telling kind of thing. Um, so I watched it a bunch, then I watched a video with him to go through it. And
what I saw was Chris Watts is [ __ ] deadeyed in this. Like deadeyed to the point where you're like,
>> is this a condition? Like what's going on? Why do you have nothing behind there?
>> No affect smiling. No effect. We're going to get to that. >> No affect at all though. No affect. Just
dead. Monotone. Can't even come up with an emotion. There are several things that I noticed here. So, one, he
swallows hard several times. Big gulping swallows. >> Huge gulps. >> Noticeably,
>> he's pursing his lips and gritting his teeth, which he does during the video with Nate as well. Whenever Nate will
point something out, he grits his teeth. >> Mhm. >> That seems to be one of his tells. When
he mentions Cece or Bella, he closes his eyes every single time. >> Mhm. >> And what Dr. G when I watched him said
about that particular thing because I was wondering what that meant. He said that this could be that what happened
espec because he particularly does it when he says Bella. >> Yeah. >> And he said this could be that he said I
I feel like something particularly heinous happened there that he's trying to block out of his head or just doesn't
want to watch again or knows it was particularly bad. And when we get into the details I'm not going to go into
like super details because to be honest my psyche can't handle it. But I know them now and I'll work through that. But
he is correct that there was extra stuff with Bella that I assume. I mean he's not a real person. So I don't I don't
know what if that's just to me that blink that slow close of his eyes is more what I analyze it as is like that's
your child. So biologically there has to be something that zings a little with your child. Maybe I'm not a psychopath.
So, I don't know if they have that, >> but like I imagine there has to be some kind of primitive biological
evolutionary connection to your child that like >> something that awful your body would
just kind of like without even an emotion attached to it just like >> save yourself from.
>> It's a it's a body response. >> Yeah. I think it's not a a heart or soul response. I think it's a bodily
physiological response that like comes from [ __ ] when we were sludged >> involuntary. It's like uh your brain is
like, "Oh [ __ ] my job is to protect you from that, so I'm going to close your eyes." You know what I mean? Like I
think it's that clinical. >> It's just like how your body keeps breathing even like
>> Yeah. I don't think it's that >> he has a feeling about it. Like I don't think he cares. I don't think that it
hurts him. I think he just has a primitive like, >> "Yeah, that was really bad, you know,
like." And so he closes his eyes cuz he does it every time. It's very noticeable
and very consistent. Uh he's swaying, he's hugging himself, which could and and when I watched the Dr. G video, he
also said this. That's like a self soothing thing and also like a nervous thing.
>> So even if he was actually missing, he might have done the same thing. >> Yeah. Like I don't I would probably do
that too, I guess. I don't know. But then he smiles >> a lot. >> A lot. >> He cannot It's again It seems
involuntary. He can't [ __ ] help it. Well, and it starts when the interviewer said when he tells the interviewer that
he hopes Shenan and the kids are safe. That's when he starts smiling because he knows they're not.
And there's something called Duper's Delight. I find this so fascinating. So, so horrible, but so fascinating.
>> So, basically what Duper's Delight is, and this has been connected to him a lot.
>> Yeah. is that like somebody who lies and you know manipulates will feel like a
smuggness and like some kind of delight like a happiness >> when they are deceiving someone
>> or they think they are at the least >> and they're when they're getting away with it which he is right now.
>> So that's that's genuine >> and it manifests as this little like smirk or like grin that he gets. He gets
it often in this interview. It's not. And I'm glad that like because when I was watching it, I was like, listen, I
will smile in weird situations because I get nervous and I'm social when your three children are missing.
>> This is just simply not one of I will I will tell you, sure, don't judge people's responses to certain things. I
100% judge this because there is I was saying this earlier, my body wouldn't be able to form a smile. No. If my children
were actually missing and my husband was missing, I would be in such severe grief
and turmoil that my body would forget had to smile. I would never be able to have a smile again. I just wouldn't.
Especially not hours after it happened when we don't know what's going on with them.
>> He also just like looks like he's acting insane obviously, but he looks put together. He does not look disheveled.
He doesn't look like he's been crying. He's not crying. >> Yep. When he says, "If they're safe now,
they're going to come back." He knows they aren't. So, he's not That's a way of him not lying. He's saying, "If
they're safe, then they're going to come back." >> But they're not. >> But they're not
>> because he killed them. >> So, I don't have to lie here. So, this is comforting. And he looks comforted.
He's like >> like very smug. >> Yeah. Like smirk. >> Like he almost got away with something
there. And he says it a couple of times. And as the interview goes and he talks about the empty house and how he hates
it, he smiles more and more. That empty house made him so happy. >> Yeah. >> When the interviewer says he's gonna ask
some tough questions, he purses his lips. And according to Dr. G, that's to literally hold things in or it's because
he knows he's got to keep his mouth shut. >> Mhm. >> It's a response that we have when we
know we have to keep quiet about something. So, it's like literally physically keep it in.
>> And he also had one thing he misses about them is what he said. He >> was nuts. He was like, "Yeah, I just,
you know, I miss and it's what he misses about them since they've been gone is telling them they can't have a treat if
they don't eat finish their dinner. >> That's that's the memory you chose of all the memories that you've created
over the three and four years that they've been." >> One memory you could come up with was I
miss telling them they can't have dessert >> and them snuggling on their own couch
watching TV >> by themselves watching TV. >> Not even like being snuggled up with
them on our couch watching TV together. Literally my first thought as like I'm like you don't miss cuddling them. You
don't miss holding them. You don't miss their smell. You don't miss the sound of
their voice. You don't miss tucking them into bed. >> You miss shoving them in front of a TV
on their own designated area >> and not having anything to do with them and just putting on bubble guppies
>> and telling them that they won't have a treat if they don't finish dinner. >> Like what that that alone is like what
diabolical. who don't have any other. I'm like, "Yeah, you >> He didn't Google what people would miss
about their children before him." >> Literally. And that's not even a joke. That's like real.
>> No, I'm being dead serious. >> I genuinely think he would have he would have Googled it if he thought he could
get away with it. >> Just like he googled what does it feel like when someone says they love you?
>> The more he talks about no one being in the house the night before, the more he
smiles. Like he's like, I you know, I didn't put on their rain machine and I didn't turn on their monitor and I
didn't put them into bed. The more he says, the more he smiles. And Dr. G pointed out that this is as he lists the
responsibilities associated with having children. He smiles more because he doesn't have them
now. >> So [ __ ] >> And he full out laughs at one point. >> It's not even like a huh, it's a
>> no. He literally says, "I just want them back." And the most genuine smile crosses right into his eyes for the
first time. He has life in his eyes. >> He laughs. He literally goes, "I just want them back."
>> If you pause it too, he is gritting from ear to ear. We were watching it with
Debbie and she was like, "I would think that this is somebody being interviewed about like their child making the honor
roll or like a a sports win like >> being so proud of them." >> What >> it is one of the most chilling and at
one point he's blinking overtime when they ask him if he was searching like if he was out searching
>> which he would be doing. He starts saying, "No, the police told me I shouldn't because I wouldn't even know
what I was looking for." And he starts blinking and it's he wasn't doing this before
>> cuz they didn't say that. >> And he starts blinking like crazy. And then the cameraman does the [ __ ]
Lorts work and zooms right in on his face as he is blinking like a crazy person.
>> And he continues to blink as they ask about like, "Did the neighbors go? Did they go door to door? Like what
happened?" He keeps blinking while he's saying no and blah blah blah. Like he just starts losing it. like he's losing
it. And the and he's trying to to act like he's crying, but there is absolutely no tears.
>> There's no moisture. >> And and he only tries that once. He tries to pretend like as he's saying
that, I think it's during like the I didn't turn on the rain machine and blah blah blah. He tries to act like make his
voice sound like it's about to cry, but then he starts smiling. So, he real I think he just abandons that. And I
remember seeing this interview on the news in 2018 standing in my living room and I looked right at John and I said,
"He did it." >> Yeah. >> And I remember John had just walked in the room. He hadn't seen the interview
and I was like, "This guy did it." And he was like, "What is this?" And I told him what it was. And he was like,
"That's horrific." Like, "What do you mean that he killed his wife pregnant wife and his two babies? Like what?" And
I was like, "He did it?" Like I remember vividly. I sent it to you. I was literally like, "This guy killed his
entire family." I It was >> the most obvious interview you have ever seen, >> right? Cuz I'm sure probably once you
showed John the full thing, he was like, "Oh, yeah." >> Oh. Showing it to him the other I showed
it to him last night cuz I was like, "This is the interview I was talking about." And he was like, "Oh, fuck."
Like he was just like, "What the fuck?" >> And yeah, so that interview happened the
very next day. And I so glad he did that interview. And he had actually said to Sandy, Shannan's mom, there's an
interview with her where she says she had actually advised him not to do any interviews because she said, "You're the
last person who saw them. I just don't think you should give any interviews right now. I think you should be talking
to investigators and that's it." >> Which wild that like >> like that shows who she is that even she
was trying to like help him out there. >> Yeah. because and um he obviously didn't
listen. And she said about that particular interview, she said, "I thank God he didn't listen to me."
>> Every single day, >> every single she said, "I thank God >> that might make me listen to God." She
was like, "That that was perfect." Like, "Thank you for doing that." >> Yep. >> And so that's how his that's how her mom
was handling it. And then his mom in the interview that came out later with her said that at this point his mom believed
that Shan Shannan had just take taken the girls and left. She didn't think that they were actually missing. Um we
are going to get into what happens next which it happens pretty quick thanks to everybody being
so fast and everybody pressing on him, everyone not giving him a second to formulate a coherent story or cover
story. It's honestly when you see because his co-workers started to uh turning and basically being like people
around him were being like, "Oh, I think he was having an affair by the way." And
like, "Hey, you should know this and hey, you should know that." Meanwhile, her people like her crew were all like
rallying to find her, rallying to get everything done. Like the difference in the people that he had versus the people
she did because it shows you who they were. >> He didn't have a lot of friends. >> Yeah, he didn't.
>> She did. He didn't. And the people that were around him, a lot of them were like, "Uh, no thank you."
>> Yeah. >> So, what we are going to do is part two will be going right into when he is
taken in and has to take a polygraph and that is when everything unravels and when the real story comes out
>> and we will talk about that and then we will get into the paranormal aspects,
some of the weird aspects of the end of this case. >> Um, so stay tuned for that.
>> All right, brothers. Oh, let me get a fun fact. >> A really fun fact. I have to get the
bonus fact >> cuz this is destroying my psyche. >> Nutmeg is technically a hallucinagen.
>> I didn't know that. >> I didn't know that either. This is from Cosmopolitan. It says, "The spice
contains mistressin, a natural compound that has mindaltering effects if ingested in large doses."
>> Damn. >> So, it's a good thing that when we were all doing the cinnamon challenge, we
didn't do the nutmeg challenge. >> Holy [ __ ] I did not do the cinnamon challenge.
>> I didn't do it willingly. >> You didn't do it willingly? >> No. My friend What does that mean? I
didn't know that you couldn't swallow cinnamon. Why would I know that? >> Yeah. >> I was like 14.
>> I was going to say you were young. >> I was young. So I tried and I choked and
almost died and then >> Yeah, that can literally kill you. >> Yeah, it almost killed me in
>> Don't do those stupid [ __ ] challenges everybody because most of them can kill
you. Everyone's just lucky that they didn't die. >> Exactly. >> People did die, I think, with that one
>> of the cinnamon challenge. >> Yeah, I think that actually like hurt people. >> Okay, that's not a fun fact. But the
fact that nutmeg is a hallucinagen is fun fact or can be a hallucinagen. >> I'll take that one as the fun. I put
nutmeg in a lot of stuff, especially in the fall. >> Oh, in the fall. >> I better be careful.
>> I'm tripping in here. >> Maybe that's why we're all tripping. We love the fall so much.
>> Fall so much. >> [ __ ] Everyone's like, "Woo!" >> Yeah, I like that. Period.
>> All right. >> Hell yeah. >> Well, we love you guys. We hope you keep listening
>> and we hope you keep it weird. You better not have to have me tell you not to keep it as weird as Chris
[ __ ] stupid ass Cars Watts. >> But I'm telling you, don't keep it that weird. Go look at the discovery
documents. They're fascinating and horrifying. >> Keep it that weird. >> Yeah. >> Bye, dolls. Bye.

When thirty-four-year-old Shanann Watts failed to return home from a doctor’s appointment on August 13, 2018, her husband, Chris, reported her missing to the Frederick, Colorado Police. When officers searched the home, they found Shanann’s car parked in the garage and her belongings—including her wallet, cell phone, and medication—were found in various spots around the house, but there was no sign of Shanann or the couple’s two children anywhere.

The next day, the FBI opened an investigation into the disappearance of Shanann and the kids and Chris took to local television ask anyone with information about their whereabouts to come forward. Just two days later, however, Chris failed a polygraph exam and eventually confessed to murdering his wife, but he denied killing their children.

What led the young, successful father and so-called “perfect” husband to commit one of the most unthinkable acts and how had everyone missed the signs of trouble in the weeks leading up to the murders?

MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE

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References

Baker, KC. 2018. Pregnant Woman and Her 2 Little Girls Vanish and Could Be in Danger, Authorities Say. August 15. Accessed April 15, 2026. https://people.com/crime/colorado-pregnant-mom-daughters-vanish-medication-left/.

Glatt, John. 2020. The Perfect Father: The True Story of Chris Watts, His All-American Family, and a Shocking Murder.New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.

Helling, Steve. 2018. Pregnant Mom Vanishes, Husband Pleads for Help — Then 3 Bodies Turn Up: How Watts Family Murder Case Unfolded. September 18. Accessed April 15, 2026. https://people.com/crime/shanann-chris-watts-family-murder-timeline/.

McDonnell-Parry, Amelia. 2018. "Colorado man claims he killed pregnant wife after she strangled their daughters." Roling Stone, August 20.

Swanson, Sady, and Nick Coltrain. 2018. "Christopher Watts sentenced to 3 life terms for murdering pregnant wife, 2 daughters." Fort Collins Coloradoan, November 20: 1.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from https://www.purple-planet.com Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

Hosts Ash and Elena discuss the Chris Watts case, detailing his background, family dynamics, and the tragic murders of his wife and daughters.

Key points

The Chris Watts Case. A deep dive into the chilling details of the Chris Watts case, exploring the lack of humanity in his actions.
Shannan's Resilience. After a painful divorce, Shannan refused to let it drag her down and continued to thrive.
Chris's Proposal. During a family vacation, Chris proposed to Shannan on the beach, and she said yes.
Family Tensions. Tensions between Shannan and Chris's family escalated, leading to a significant fallout.
Social Media Illusions. Shannan's online presence masked the growing challenges in her marriage.
Chris's Deception Unfolds. Nikki discovers Chris's lies about his family situation, leading to emotional turmoil.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

It's better than murder. It's better than family annihilation.

Arguing that divorce is preferable to committing murder.

12:31WatchMay 11, 2026

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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