Episode 736: The Yogurt Shop Murders | Forensic Files

Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. This is morbid. It is. And it smells
really good in the pod labio right now. >> It does. It smells like pumpkins. >> Yeah, a little bit.
>> Kind of to me smells like sugar cookies. >> Smells like a bit of both. Maybe some
pumpkin sugar cookies. >> That actually sounds [ __ ] awesome. >> Maybe I'll make some of those.
>> Maybe you should. >> Maybe I should. Uh I did I want to make some cookies tonight. I'm in a cookie
making mood. >> I'm in a cookie making mood, too. I've been watching so much um Holiday Baking
Championship >> and I I was watching one of the old seasons the other day and I saw somebody
make a checkered cookie and I really want to make a checkered cookie now. >> Ooh, that sounds hard, but I want to try
it. >> I think it's like not hard, it's just tedious. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Mhm. Yeah. >> I'm into it, though. I'm I'm definitely into doing some holiday cookies.
>> Yeah. Drew got me for Christmas a KitchenAid and it got delivered like in the KitchenAid box. So, I saw it and I
was like, can I just have that even though it's for Christmas? >> Can I have that?
>> Can I have it? And I'm so excited. They're the best. >> I had a KitchenAid and then I switched
to a different brand, which I won't say cuz it's not a bad brand. I just like don't really want it
>> Yeah. >> anymore. And I was like, "Could you get me a KitchenAid again? I know that's
really annoying." And he was like, "Maybe." And then it showed up at our doorstep
>> in the in the KitchenAid box. >> And I said, >> that is what she said. >> Must make cookies.
>> It's true. That's what she said. I did see this thing and maybe you should get
one of these now that you have KitchenAid. Tell me. I'm going to get one. It's like a rubber bowl that you
put in your KitchenAid mixer or KitchenAid mixer. I haven't had enough caffeine today.
>> I haven't had a lot of cough. >> No. And it's a rubber bowl that like you can literally smush up
>> to easily clean it. >> That's cool. >> That way if you just like want to mix something small or quick or mix two
different things like you know dry ingredients and wet ingredients, you're not messing up the bowl and having to
keep washing the bowl over and over again. >> That's a great idea cuz there are so
many times where you have to like mix the separate ingredients and I'm always like
>> h like I hate that I have to do this in like another Yeah. like bowl that's not
attached to my kitchen. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Cool. Cool. I'm going to get one of those.
>> I think I might get one of those. >> I got the KitchenAid one, too, cuz Mikey
was telling me. This isn't sponsored, by the way. >> No, >> it's just exciting. But KitchenAid, if
you want to sponsor, that'd be sick. >> Honey, if you want a sponsor, I'll send you that rubber bowl.
>> I love your [ __ ] >> I do, too. I went back to it. Um, I had the Twiston one before and Mikey was
saying that because I make a lot of bread, putting like the It's like a lift one instead.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I haven't unboxed mine yet, but I think I might do that today.
>> I think you should. Maybe I'll make some checkered cookies today. >> I think it feels right today.
>> It does. It's cold as [ __ ] It's that kind of day. It's a It's a holiday day.
>> Yeah, but it's not an actual holiday. >> No, it's just like December. It's true.
If you have children listening, I'm going to I'm going to talk about some top secret parent business.
So, uh, send them out. Get them. Get rid of them. >> All right. They're out of the room. So,
how's your Elf on the Shelf going, everybody? Uh for those who who celebrate >> mine is going great. We are eight days
in. >> Hell yeah. >> We have not forgotten a night. There you go. >> That's pretty.
>> You haven't gotten into bedum in like [ __ ] >> Uh we did that once, I will say. But um
forgetting a night to me constitutes I sit up at 4 or 5 in the morning like like I'm being risen from the dead. It's
literally like a and you like sit up and you run downstairs in this fog of JUST LIKE OH GOD I'VE RUINED THE MAGIC and
it's not it's 4 like nobody's but then you just stick them in a tree or something and you're like oh there he is
he's in the tree today. >> It's that hasn't happened yet. No, you've been doing really well.
>> So far we've really >> we've really gone for it. >> Her kids are Dancing with the Stars fans
now. So I sent her a Dancing with the Stars one that was pretty cute. >> That one I've been holding. I haven't
done it yet. I mean, that's like a closer to Christmas. >> Yeah. And it's one that requires a
little more like pre-planning. So, >> yeah, you need to get Barbie involved and like a couple a couple of Barbies
signage. >> Got to get some Barbies involved. Yeah, we got to do the whole thing. Yeah, they
they're very into Dancing with the Stars all of a sudden because I think uh I think it was Robert Irwin that got them
into >> If anybody's going to get you into Dancing with the Stars, Robert, >> they love him. They rooted for him hard
and I love it. Yeah, he's a I'm like clearly no we we all know it was we all know ladies
>> it was his technique. >> It was loved him that way. I was like I I was like hey if you're going to have a
crush on anyone have a crush on Robert Irwin. >> Hell yeah. You know but uh yeah. So
hopefully everybody's off on the shelf. I here's a reminder. Make sure you move it tonight.
>> Move that little [ __ ] Here's your reminder. Uh maybe I'll post a couple of the ideas that I found. I found a lot of
ideas on Tik Tok. So, >> there's so many cute ones. I don't even have a lot of them when I get them.
>> Yeah. >> I'm like, "Oh, do this tonight." >> They get so excited. >> Like the one I did today. And don't
worry, we'll get to the to the story. >> First holiday magic. >> But we the one we did that happened
today was our elf, David Bowie. That's his name. >> They named him. >> They named him when they were like two.
Uh they he was like strung up in in Christmas lights and hung over like the banister. So, he's like hanging in the
middle of the hallway. >> It's amazing. >> And he's and he's like all it's like all
around him. And then I hung a little little sign off of him that said, "Your Cuz they have fairies." All three of
them obviously. >> Um we're a whimsical household. >> And it said, "Your fairies caught me. Um
can someone please explain to them who I am?" And then it says, "Help. Love David
Bowie." >> I love it. >> They loved this. Before they left for school, my oldest ran over to David
Bowie hanging upside down in lights and said, >> "Hey, David, I promise you we're going
to talk to the fairies when we get home. I'm just going to be late for school. Okay, love you. Bye." And then ran away.
>> I just love, "Hey, David. >> David." >> Also, when he was originally named, wasn't he David Bowie? David Bowie.
>> No, that's one of their fairies. >> Oh, wow. So, maybe that's what the fairies are pissed about.
>> Yeah. So the the elf on the shelf is David Bowie. Then there's a fairy that's
named David Bowie. David Bowie. And then there's another fairy called Fairy Fairy.
>> And then there's And then there's pink. >> Just pink. >> Just pink. >> I like fairy fairy.
>> Kids fan. >> Yeah. You know, so I know Elf on the Shelf can be a lot, but >> it's cute though.
>> They love it and it's worth it. >> I love it. I love coming over and being like, "Where's the elf?
>> Where's the elf?" >> What was the Oh, I like the bruh. >> Bruh bruh. I [ __ ] hate the six seven thing
>> as does every adult on the planet. >> But here was my thinking cuz John was like ah cuz I was like we got to do on
because it was December 6th and 7th. I was like we got to have David Bowie acknowledge that. So I had him write a
thing that was like bruh cuz they all they're big into lately. >> And I told John I said
>> once the parents start doing the the trend it >> it's not cool anymore. So if we if we
feed into it, they're going to be like, "That's not cool anymore." >> But they like us.
>> I know. So I think that they they don't care cuz John said like a six seven thing like not meaning to. He was
literally referencing the number six and seven for something else yesterday. >> Yeah.
>> And one of them was like, "Da, >> it still it >> we'll see. >> It'll die." There's another thing that
Drew was telling me about. His like little cousin was telling him that there's like a hand motion that means
something and yeah, it's the next thing. >> I'm out. >> I don't know. >> I'm out.
>> I'm still stuck on that skippy toilet. RZ, >> I I've never acknowledged that happening.
>> How do you not acknowledge that? >> Cuz I can't >> I still don't know what it is, what it
means, where it came from. But just the fact that the children of the streets were going around saying Skippy toilet
Riz, >> that just makes me so sad though. >> But then I think about the dumb [ __ ] we
said. Like I mean, you know, for sure it wasn't as anything can really compare to
Skibby toilet RZ. But >> I mean me, our my people said our eyebrows were on fleek.
>> Yeah, that's true. >> What does that even mean? >> No idea. I love it, but I don't still
say it to this day. But >> yeah, >> it's pretty bad. >> It's pretty pretty random.
>> Pretty random. >> Um, now to the business part. >> Oh, the business and then we get into
the >> Yeah, cuz actually this is going to be a long one. >> Yeah. >> So, business part. We are still going to
cover all of the Twilight episodes because >> cuz you guys were awesome about that.
>> People loved them and we loved it. It was so much fun. So, we're going we're going to do New Moon and I think it will
be our January uh bonus episode. >> Yes. Because >> because our next bonus >> is going to be dropping Sunday, December
14th, which is usually on a Friday, but this is a special one. >> It's special. >> It's going to be dropping simultaneously
with the creators who made it, who are >> we joined them for a [ __ ] expedition
of the night. >> It was literally What time did we start our exploration? It was early. We
started our exploration early and it literally I think we got in our car to start driving home at like 4:00 a.m.
>> Yeah, it was like 4 or 4:30. We drove home maybe closer to 5. >> It was nuts out.
>> Um it was a allnighter. >> Yeah, we're not going to say what it is because they are going to release the
video and we will release our discussion of that video with that's it was when they were here. So, it's a discussion
with them is what the bonus episode will be >> where we go over everything and kind of
talk through it. So, highly encourage you to watch the video and listen to the bonus episode because they're going to
be good companions with each other. And it was so much fun. >> Yeah, I would watch the video first and
then listen to the bonus >> because we'll discuss the video. So, I think it makes sense to watch the video
first. >> Yeah, it is just so much fun. >> It really is. >> We met so many cool people and we'll
just say that. >> Yeah, there was a lot there was more people involved. >> Yes, definitely. But also, I think it
helps because um we know that everybody you guys loved the Twilight episode and we loved it, but I know there's some
people that don't want like back to back to back >> five bonus episodes in a row to just be
Twilight. So, we want to make sure we're kind of spreading them out at least like
every other or every two, you know what I mean? So, we will absolutely be covering all of them. We're just going
to spread them out so everybody gets what they want to hear on a bonus episode. >> We We got what you need.
>> We got what you need. And you say that we're just a friend. And we are. >> And we are. And we're just your friends.
>> We're just friends. >> All right. So, actually very strange that we're recording this today because
I think it's like not that far off from when this happened. >> Oh, wow. >> Which I didn't plan. Um, but we're going
to be talking about the yogurt shop murders today. I >> waiting for this one. This is like one
of our most highly requested cases and I've always wanted to kind of like dive into it, especially since I like really
I watched the HBO documentary recently and I was like, "Oh, wow." Like there was so much more to this than I
realized, but it's perfect timing kind of to go over it at this point because it's now solved and it had not been
solved for decades, >> long time. So just before midnight on December 6th, 1991, Sergeant John
Winston, who was the only member of Austin's homicide unit on the clock at that time,
>> that's crazy. >> Like, can you imagine? >> No. >> He was leaving a scene where a man had
actually barricaded himself inside his apartment with a gun and he had just left that scene and another call came
in. According to the dispatcher, firefighters had responded to a fire at I Can't Believe It's Yogurt, which was a
frozen yogurt store on West Anderson Lane. And when they were finally able to enter the building, they discovered at
first two bodies, both of which had been shot in the head. Now, since he was the
only homicide officer on duty at that point in time, he took the call, headed to the scene.
>> Yeah. >> Before he got there, another call came from dispatch that they had discovered a
third body. And then moments later, another call came in. and he's still on his way there. And the dispatcher
updated saying, "Make that four." >> There's four bodies in a fire. That must be so chilling to hear, "Make that
four." >> Yeah, cuz it's just so like okay, and another like just rough. >> So when he got to the strip mall, the
lot was buzzing with firefighters working, other police officers, reporters of course, onlookers. Upon
arrival, he checked in with the first officer on the scene, who was Sergeant John Jones. He described what he found
when he was finally able to enter the building and said, "There were puddles of water all over the place. The bodies
were still smoldering and it was hot. It was smoky and I was by myself." >> What a haunting scene to walk into.
>> That sounds awful. >> And at a yogurt shop. Like one of the most innocent places.
>> That's the thing. It's just so innocent. >> And it's like, as we've come to find
out, four teenage girls just working on closing up that place. >> That's awful. So, according to Jones, it
was actually the firefighters who first found the bodies while they were trying to get the fire subdued. They had just
extinguished the blaze, and they were knocking out the windows to ventilate the room when one of them spotted what
looked like a foot on the floor. And when the smoke cleared and they could finally take in the rest of the room,
they discovered the charred bodies of 17-year-old Eliza Thomas and her coworker, 17-year-old Jennifer Harbison.
So, just two 17year-olds. literally kids. >> Moments later, they found the body of
Jennifer's sister, 15-year-old Sarah Harbison, lying just a few feet away from her sister. All three bodies had
suffered obviously serious damage from the fire. >> But all three were also nude and had
been bound and gagged with their own underwear. >> Oh my god, >> this is a brutal, brutal case. It was
immediately clear obviously that they weren't just victims of an accidental fire. So the firefighters just left the
bodies where they were rather than take them out like they usually would. So while they kept making their way through
the shop opening windows, another firefighter went around the back of the building to force the back door open.
And as he was working from the back of the store trying to ventilate the room, he opened the door to a small storage
area where he discovered the fourth body, which was the youngest victim, 13-year-old Amy Heirs.
>> 13 years old. So unlike the others who had been shot in the head execution style,
and their bodies were burned almost beyond recognition, Amy had suffered a lot less damage from the fire, but she
had been shot twice in the head. >> Like the >> shot twice in the head. >> Twice. Yeah. Like the other girl, she
was also nude, but she had some kind of cloth sack wrapped around her neck. >> And later, investigators theorized that
the killer or killers had stacked all four bodies on top of one another before setting the fire. But Amy, who was alive
at the time, managed to crawl away and into the storage area. >> My god. >> Yeah, that's even more horrifying.
>> It is. So firefighters efforts to extinguish the blaze, while obviously necessary, did cause a lot of additional
damage to the crime scene above and beyond what was already done by the fire. But still, the evidence of a mass
killing was clear to investigators at the scene. Jones told a reporter, "I saw things in Vietnam and I thought nothing
will ever match that. Well, this matches that because it's in Austin, Texas, right down the street from where we
live." >> Oh, that's awful. Like for that to like obviously what he walked into for that
to be comparable to things he saw in Vietnam >> to be able to compare those two things
>> like that's next level. >> So what remained of the interior of the yogurt shop after the fire was put out
really didn't provide a lot of evidence. Almost every surface was covered with soot, water, smoke. They couldn't
fingerprint anything. And most other physical evidence was basically completely compromised and soaked
through. So, the only real clues that investigators had were the fact that the register was empty, which obviously s
suggested that the motive was robbery. >> Yeah. >> And then the fact that the victims had
been shot with two different weapons, which to them implied multiple killers. >> Yeah.
>> And finally, the key was still in the lock of the front door when firefighters
broke it down. So, that implied that the killer or killers gained entry through the back door. So, they had a few things
to go on. >> Yeah. A quick call to the management of the yogurt shop confirmed that two of
the victims, Jennifer and Eliza, were employees and they were working the closing shift. And the other two victims
were identified a short time later, like I said, as Jennifer's sister, Sarah, and
Sarah's friend Amy. Formal identification would be done the following day through dental records,
and that obviously confirmed everything. But Jones and the other investigators quickly put together a working theory
that Jennifer and Eliza were closing the store that night and the other two girls
stopped by to help them close, which it's just like >> So they >> they didn't even have to be there.
>> Yeah. >> And at some point between their last customer and locking the doors for the
night, the girls were held at gunpoint by at least two men who intended to rob the store is what they thought.
>> Yeah. >> Detective Mike Huckabe told a reporter, "The first thing that comes to mind is
crack cocaine." like a robbery involving that. >> So, what happened after the gunman
entered the store was basically a complete mystery. A no sale was rung up at 11:03 p.m. and there was money
missing from the register, but the key to the office where they kept the day's revenue was still under the register
where it was supposed to be. And the office hadn't been touched, which was where most of the money was.
>> Yeah. And where you would think there would be most of the money. >> Exactly. According to the arson
inspector, the fire had been set along the south wall of the storage room. But when it came to the type of accelerant
used to set the fire, the main investigator, the arson inspector and the other investigators from Austin Fire
Department were at a complete loss to identify it, >> which is weird >> because under most circumstances, like
the most common accelerants uh are lighter fluid and gasoline and obviously that leaves like a distinct odor,
>> but there was no odor like that. So, and neither the crime scene or the bodies
contain any evidence of what was used. >> Interesting. >> So, it's really weird.
>> Yeah. >> In the days that followed, autopsies were obviously conducted on the victims
and that confirmed what everybody kind of saw at the initial exam and also revealed some new details. So, all four
autopsies were conducted by Dr. Tommy Brown, pathologist from Houston, who did kind of occasional work for the Travis
County Medical Examiner's Office, and his work was overseen by the deputy medical examiner, Les Carpenter, and he
was known as a quote tight ass when it came to protocol. So, these were going to be done like to the tea.
>> Yeah. >> So, according to their reports, Eliza, Jennifer, and Sarah had each been killed
by one gunshot wound to the back of the head. They said it was fired at close range from a 22 caliber gun. Sarah had
been sexually assaulted and trace evidence was collected. Jennifer had liature marks around her neck similar to
the ones found on Amy's neck. And although their bodies had obviously been severely burned in the fire, the medical
examiner believed that the burns were sustained postmortem. >> Oh, thankfully. >> So, like at least there's that
>> which kind of uh changes like the initial theory where they thought that Amy had crawled off.
>> So, at least that hopefully didn't happen, you Thank goodness for small favors.
>> But she still Amy was the outlier. >> She, like I said, had been discovered in
a different part of the store and her murder was different. The medical examiner found skin cells under her
nails, obviously indicating that she fought back, and it also could have explained why her death was a little
more brutal than the others. >> Mhm. >> According to the autopsy, she had a bruise under her chin that was obviously
sustained in the assault. She had also been partially strangled with a piece of cloth that was recovered at the scene.
And as for her cause of death, she was shot in the back of the head with a 22 caliber like the others, but she had
that second gunshot wound that went uh entered through the right side of her head and entered through or um exited,
excuse me, through her left cheek. >> Jesus. >> Yeah. So, Austin obviously is one of the
larger cities in Texas. Like, we all know that. But in 1991, it still had like a very small town identity. Yeah.
It was the kind of place where like they managed to avoid the violence and disconnection that happens in big cities
and you know the kind of place where nothing ever happens here. >> It had more of like a small town vibe.
>> Yes, very much so. I really want to go to Austin by the way. >> Yeah. Isn't it like keep Austin weird?
Isn't that there? So I feel like it's such it sounds like such a cool place. >> It's calling to us.
>> It is. >> But back to the story. When the news of the yogurt shop murders broke the next
day, it was like Austin's innocence had completely shattered and so did everybody's feelings of safety. Anybody
who knew the victims was absolutely devastated by the news of these murders. One student from Lineer High School told
a reporter, "There's a lot of denial. Nobody wants to think this happened." >> Yeah, of course.
>> Don't blame them. The Monday after the murders, the teachers and all the administrative staff at the high school
really just prepared for a day of mourning and they spent the majority of the day talking with students about what
had happened. Principal Paul Turner said, "We have to help them process what they're feeling." I can't imagine
processing a trauma like this as a high schooler. >> No. Like and you just you like these are
your girlfriends that were in your class yesterday >> and like girlfriends that were just at
their part-time job that you also have a part-time job and >> yeah go to it without a thought.
>> Your sister might come and help you clean up for the night and you know they were probably had plans to hang out
afterwards like >> just do a normal >> Yeah, exactly. >> they got dressed for work or to go see
their friends or their sister and never knew that that was the end. >> It's really really awful.
>> Awful. So, everybody who didn't know the victims, they were still very affected
by the murders, too. One local man told a reporter, "It reminds me of the street
horror that I left behind in Manhattan." For some, the yogurt shop murders represented something even more than the
murder of just four girls. It was evidence that problems in the cities like Houston and Dallas had made their
way to the relatively peaceful suburbs, >> which is scary. >> It is super scary. Uh, Austin resident
Cynthia Baron said, "At one time, girls could go anywhere. Now, you've got to be
careful. You can't trust anybody anymore." And it's gotten worse. >> Oh. Um, exponentially so.
>> Yeah. >> In one interview after another though, representatives from law enforcement
repeated their working theory of robbery, citing the fact that there was some money missing. Lieutenant Andrew
Waters said, "That's the best theory, but it's possible there could have been something else and they attempted to
make it look like a robbery." >> That makes sense. >> The truth was when it came to the motive
for the murder and the identity of the suspects, investigators were very much in the dark, just like everybody else in
Austin. The scene, like we were saying in the beginning, was so heavily compromised by not only the fire, but
the water to extinguish it. >> So, evidence was impossible to collect. >> So, they were kind of just going on like
theory and speculation, but I mean, but not bad speculation, I would say. At this point, it seems like they're
>> they're kind of theorizing in the right direction. >> Yeah, they're going in the right
direction. And here, like what was collected didn't do a lot to point them in any specific direction, though. That
was the problem. there was money missing from the register but and the killer or
killers didn't bother to look in the office though where the larger sums of money would have been and like you said
like is pretty obvious so that was weird >> and further complicating matters was the
fact that three of the victims had been sexually assaulted. Obviously, some robberies can involve sexual assault and
obviously can escalate to murder, but it seemed very unlikely that somebody would
go into the yogurt shop, rob the place, and then spur of the moment decide to sexually assault these girls.
>> Yeah, it is a strange like >> set of pathology here. >> Yeah. It all seemed very planned though
to investigators the more and more they looked into it. And within a day of the murders, the relatively small Austin
Police Department found themselves pretty much faced with an unimaginable crime. and nowhere to go. No one on the
force had that much experience at the time with any case that was similar. But unfortunately, no one on the force or
the administration wanted to admit that they might have been a little bit out of
their league here. So instead, they rallied their best investigators and vowed to find the killers, which was
good that they were so dedicated to this, but at the same time, if you're out of your league, you got to admit
that you're >> So, as the residents of Austin came together to mourn the deaths of the
girls, a task force of Austin homicide investigators and investigators from the local district attorney's office got to
work interviewing friends, family, anybody that they could talk to to learn more about their victims and also
establish like a concrete timeline of events. So, what they learned was really more or less what you would expect to
learn of four teenage girls. They were good students. They were well-liked. They were active in community groups. A
teacher of Jennifer said she brought joy to the classroom. And her sister Sarah Sarah had already established herself as
assertive, enthusiastic. She was a leader, clearly a kid who was going to make a mark on the world.
>> Oh, that's so sad. >> Yeah. Elsewhere in Austin, other detectives from the task force were
working together to put a timeline of the day together. From the moment they the that the murders were reported in
the paper, the task force was flooded with tips about suspicious cars, suspicious people.
>> Yeah. >> Everybody wants to help, but everybody's kind of saying the same stuff.
>> Yeah. >> A typical tip from the public was like this one from Lucella Jones, who was a
customer at the yogurt shop on the night of the murders. She said she remembered
seeing two teenage boys in the shop who were focusing intently on something between them, a small sack of some kind.
Like Jones, it seemed that everybody who was at the yogurt shop that night, had seen something suspicious.
>> From what investigators could tell, though, the night was pretty much like any other for Eliza and Jennifer, they
usually worked closing shifts together. But investigators figured things deviated around 900 p.m. when Jennifer
went on break and drove to pick up her sister and Amy in uh Northcross. I think they were at the Northcross mall.
>> Okay. >> And then when they got back to the shop a short time later, Jennifer punches
back in and then Sarah and Amy went to pick up a pizza at a local restaurant. >> Okay.
>> Several customers remembered seeing uh Sarah and Amy sitting in one of the booths at the yogurt shop eating their
pizza. At 10:42 p.m., just 18 minutes before closing, Eliza rang in the final sale for the night to Tim Striker and
his girlfriend Margaret Sheen. Other than Sarah and Amy, Tim and his girlfriend said they remembered seeing
two large people in hooded jackets sitting in a booth together. >> Oh, they didn't really get a look at the
faces of the two people at the table, but they said they remembered them because it didn't look like they were
talking to each other. And there was also no food on their table, like they weren't eating. They were just sitting
at a table together. >> Just sitting there >> being weird >> in silence and hoodies.
>> Okay. In silence and hoodies. >> Yeah. Not great. >> So, when she was interviewed by police,
Margaret Sheen told investigators she never got the impression something was wrong in the yogurt shop that night. And
as far as she could remember, Eliza and Jennifer were just talking about like the schedule that was upcoming that week
ahead and a friend that they were going to visit. But it did seem to her that the men in the hooded jackets were
listening in on Eliza and Jennifer's conversation. Oh, okay. Which is creepy. >> That's very creepy.
>> And that was the last time anybody saw the four girls alive. So, according to
the owner of the I Can't Believe It's Yogurt, Eliza was a stickler for the rule. She followed company procedure,
everything to a tea whenever she was in charge, and she was that night. >> Okay.
>> So, that meant investigators could be pretty certain that they closed the store at exactly 11:00 at night,
obviously. >> Yeah. >> And started the cleaning checklist as soon as they locked that door.
>> Okay. When police were able to access the scene, the front door was still locked and the sign had been flipped to
close. So, that supported that. The morning after the murders though, the owner looked over the scene in the
dining room, and based on how everything looked, she was able to tell investigators how far along in the
cleaning process the girls had gotten when they were interrupted, which is like pretty vital information.
>> Uh, gives you a timeline. >> Exactly. Jennifer had started emptying and cleaning the first yogurt machine,
it seemed, while Eliza was wiping down the counter and like the other surfaces. The register was open and the sales tape
had been printed. But the cash drawer had been removed and was later found in the storage room lying beside Amy's
body, >> which I guess you can assume that whatever cash was left in there maybe,
>> yeah, >> was taken by the robbers if they took any cash at all. Nobody even know.
>> That's a thing cuz you don't really know. But given how everything looked in the store, the manager estimated that
the girls were about 10 or 15 minutes into the closing routine when they were interrupted.
>> Oh man. >> And since investigators knew that the fire was called in around 11:45, that
meant that whatever happened in the store that night, it happened in the span of about a half hour. Wow. Which
that means one or two people were able to kill and sexually assault three out of four teenage girls and kill all four
of them. In in how long? >> Half an hour. >> Half an hour. Holy. >> Which [ __ ] I do feel like supports the
theory. And again, this is solved, so like we'll find out. But I feel like it's partially solved because to me,
>> it supports the >> two people had to be doing this. >> I can see that. >> You know what I mean? I mean, one person
could have done this obviously. Like if it's a big guy with a gun like >> and if it's somebody that is like
>> possibly you know >> on something >> you know that can also make people act a
little more like >> superhuman that we can register. >> Yep. That's true. >> You know
>> I don't know why to me it just says two people but I think it's the two >> um the two guns being used is a little
bit weird but I mean >> one person can have two guns. >> Yeah absolutely can. But anyway, before
we get to who this is, a few days later, after everything was kind of established
as far as they could get it, Austin police called their first press conference to discuss any progress on
the case, which there wasn't a ton of progress made. They were reluctant to reveal too much information. Obviously,
like you want to keep things close to the chest, but they reiterated the theory that the primary motive for the
crime was robbery. Lieutenant Andrew Waters said, "We're still operating under the theory that the probable
motive is robbery. As far as suspects, we have not developed any specific suspects.
That said, Waters did announce that the evidence strongly indicated, like I was just saying, that there were at least
two killers in the store that night. And he said one of the killers has a dominant personality and led one or more
reluctant people to participate in the crime. >> Interesting. >> I don't really know why you would
describe one of them as reluctant. >> That's the thing. I'm like, you don't know
>> where you getting that? Like I think it's because they're describing one as so dominant that they assume there has
to be this like very submissive personality with him and it's like >> right >> or you could just have two terrible
people, two like really [ __ ] up people >> who are as into being terrible people as
the next one. >> It's like the case you just told. Those were two pretty terrible [ __ ] people.
>> Yeah. The Onion Fields case. Like that's the thing. >> Exactly. So Lieutenant Waters admitted
that they really didn't have any strong leads and the evidence that they had was
sparse. Years later though, the press would learn that detectives had held back obviously critical information from
the public and most of which was related to the evidence of sexual assault. >> They were just doing what they were told
at that point in time. And I also think trying to maintain a sense of decency for these four girls.
>> Yeah. >> It was 1991 in Austin, Texas. Nobody wanted to say to the public that three
out of four murdered teen girls had also been assaulted. >> Yeah. Cuz that's awful. That's
unimaginable. >> Yeah. It's awful. It's unimaginable. their fam. I don't even think their
families were told. I I remember when I watched the documentary, I don't think they were told that.
>> Oh man. >> Uh but at the same time, some of the information withheld was also probably
held back so that they could use it to narrow down suspects. So you can see like maybe it was this, maybe it was
that, or maybe it was a combination. >> Regardless of their reasons though, withholding the information made the
public's belief and like the investigator's belief that this was all a robbery gone wrong seem likely.
>> Yeah. But if the public had been privy to all the information, the case would
have looked a lot more like a sex crime than a robbery. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a lot going on here.
>> There is. It's going in like a hundred different directions, it feels. >> Yeah. So, after two weeks of almost no
updates from investigators, another press conference was called a few days before Christmas to update the public
about the status. The week before, a teenage girl had actually confessed that she and her boyfriend committed the
murders. >> What? But detectives really quickly realized that she was giving a false
confession when she had absolutely no knowledge of the details of the murder. >> How
disturbing. >> How disturbing. >> That's unthinkable. I'm like, why? >> Why would you want to take credit for
that? >> You should probably be locked up just for that because if you're admitting to
something like that, you're probably going to do some [ __ ] up [ __ ] in the future.
Jon Jones told a reporter, "Confessions sound good, but that's not the standard by which the charges are filed. The
killers have to tell us certain things that only the killers would know." That didn't happen in this case. They started
telling us stuff that just wasn't true. Now, I want everybody to remember the first part of that statement.
Confessions sound good, but that's not the standard by which charges are filed. Everyone, just tuck that away in your
brain. >> I'm tucking it. >> Okay, so the two teenagers who confessed were among 25 suspects that
investigators interviewed since the murders, but all 25 of those suspects turned out to be dead ends. Aside from a
flurry of activity right after the killings, the case really failed to take off in any meaningful direction.
>> This must have been so infuriating. >> Four Exactly. Four families here are affected by this. And some of these
families have like these girls had siblings and these siblings are just going on wondering what happened to
their older or younger sister. >> They're having to move forward in life, parenting, being a kid,
>> not having any idea what happened. >> Well, and it's like what if you're a kid
when this happens to you? You're just never a kid again. >> Yeah. >> Like that innocence is stripped away
from you. >> And you're probably worried. You don't know who did this. So they're out there.
>> Yeah. Everybody's on edge. And then you're probably wondering, was our family targeted? Are they going to come
for me? >> Exactly. >> So Andrew Waters said, "We have a few leads, but I wouldn't call any of them
strong. We're not too optimistic." Which I can't imagine hearing. One, as the public, I'd be like, and two, like we
just said, as the families, like there's nothing you have >> to hear, we're not optim that would
shatter me. >> Yeah, we're not optimistic. It's awful. A week later, when reporters contacted
Jon Jones for an update on the case, uh, as the end of the year was now approaching, Jones replied, "It ain't
looking good. The light at the end of the tunnel, it's the headlights of a train. 1991's been a bad year. A real
bad year." >> Oh man. >> Yeah. So, by March of 1992, now the Austin community was continuing to show
their support for the victim's families. One thing about this case, and I really
highly suggest the documentary that's on HBO about it, it shows the community that really came together at this point
in time. >> Everybody was keeping the girls memories alive with posters, banners, buttons,
t-shirts. There were companies that were put like pouring money into the reward.
I think Bryce Foods was offering a $25,000 reward and uh the owners of I Can't Believe It's Yogurt also
contributed to that, too. >> And then on local radio stations, they would play um the benefit single called
We Will Not Forget, which a ton of people in the community and the victim's families got together to record.
>> Oh, stop. >> About what happened to these girls and who they were. It will make you cry when
you hear it. I was going to say, >> but everybody did really support each other. It was awesome.
>> So, despite the city's determination to keep the victim's memories alive and to
deliver justice, the arrival of 1992 brought absolutely nothing but frustration and deadends for
investigators. By March, the task force, which was consisting of one clerk, five
detectives, and an ATF agent at that time, had sifted through more than a thousand leads and had
>> just that amount of people. just that amount of people and interviewed countless witnesses and suspects and
still they were no closer to where they were when they started. >> I This makes me stressed out just thinking
about it because when like you always think there's got to be some string to pull and there is always some string to
pull I feel. But when you can't find that [ __ ] string and you're I can't imagine just sitting there and hitting
dead end cuz it's not like oh here's something you're just not going to get any further than this. you're getting
nothing. Like you're not even taking a mini little step forward. >> That's the thing.
>> That would be in [ __ ] infuriating. >> I think that's the thing too about the
cases from the early '9s is that we didn't have the technology that we have today to like
>> make DNA profiles and that kind of thing. So, it's even maddening to like however many years later, like what over
30 years later, this gets solved and you had that evidence from day one, which is
incredible. >> It was sitting there, >> but there was nothing they could do with
it. >> Thank goodness they collected it though. >> Yeah. Thank goodness they did.
>> There's at least that. >> And just like just the way that this crime scene, like everything happened at
this crime scene, it's awful because >> that honestly that could have been missing, too.
>> Absolutely. >> But just the fact that they had that is remarkable. >> It was so destroyed
>> in a way. >> So, the best leads investigators had were descriptions of those two hooded
individuals seen in the store um and a a composite sketch of a person of interest
that was seen in and around the parking lot of the store that night. But it's like two hooded individ.
>> I was going to say that could literally be anybody. >> Yeah. But then the sketch of the random
individual like being a creep led investigators to a recently arrested serial killer who we haven't talked
about. Uh Kenneth McDuff. He was awaiting trial for the murder of several young women in Mlennon County, Texas,
not too far from Austin. >> Yeah, we haven't covered him. >> No, we haven't. Um but unfortunately he
had an alibi for the night of the murders that checked out and he was ruled out. But he was found guilty of
the murders that he had been charged with before and he was actually executed in 1998. So
>> damn, >> we'll look into that. >> See you later. Goodbye. >> Yeah. So later that year in
mid-occtober, police in Mexico suddenly arrested 23-year-old I'm going to do my best with these. I
looked them up, but just bear with me. Uh Pfiio Savra and 22-year-old Alberto Cortez. They
were arrested on charges of drug trafficking and arm smuggling. During their interrogation, both confessed to
the murders of the four teenagers in Austin. >> Why is everyone confessing to this?
>> I mean interrogation. >> Yeah. I was like, well, my own question. I was like, wait a minute. They're in
interrogation. >> I don't know about I'm I'm actually very unclear about what happened with the
teenagers. They were people of interest, so who knows? >> Yeah. Who knows how that was happening.
There was one specific investigator that actually got taken off this case for not
using great interrogation tactics. >> Well, I guess that answered my question. >> Yeah. So, that could have that could
have definitely >> that could have played into it. >> Yeah. So, these arrests came as a
surprise to everybody in Texas, especially the investigators. Actually, they were convinced that the killer was
familiar with the area and lived nearby. >> Yeah. And while the arrest usually might
have come as a relief to everybody in Austin, especially you would think the victims of the families, not a lot of
people seemed convinced of the authenticity of these confessions. >> That might even be worse than happening.
>> I think I think it's so much worse >> cuz it's like a it's a weird false hope,
but then you you feel like you're being duped a little. >> I think you said it perfectly, false
hope, cuz you there's a little piece of you, I'm sure, that gets that feeling in
your stomach like, "Oh, this could be it." And then you're like, >> you're like, but I know it's not.
>> I know it's not exactly. Jennifer and Sarah's mother, Barbara, told a reporter, "I don't feel justice. I'm not
happy. I'm not thrilled. I'm not anything. All I know is that someone had confessed to something that is so
horrible." >> Cuz that that is the other thing. >> Mhm. >> That I can't really fathom is like once
somebody is caught for this. >> Yes. I'm sure you feel I I can imagine that you feel some sort of relief that
justice is is moving forward at the very least >> even if it's just like the smallest
tiniest feeling. >> Yeah. But at the you don't think about the fact that these families probably
also feel this strange like Yeah. I like [ __ ] this guy. You know what I Like like
I don't Okay, so we caught him and he did this awful thing. Like it must be such a weird I can't describe it
correctly, but like a weird dichotomy of feelings that >> cuz it must be like >> I guess I want to know this guy.
>> I don't want to know this guy. And so like we're all done here, I guess. How do you just go how do you go about your
life with it being unsolved? But then how do you go about your life when it is solved and you just know this person who
took your baby away from you? Well, not and it's like I would picture no matter what somebody who hurt my child in my
head would become this [ __ ] just crouched over like fireb breathing monster like you know what I mean? Like
you just think of the worst kind of goblin in your head and then when you see this person
>> who did it must be this like >> so that that's just the guy who did that. Like you're just like what the
[ __ ] Like it must be such a weird >> cuz no matter what you're going to think of this person as a [ __ ] monster and
they are >> but they're going to look >> like a human and that must be a weird thing to reconcile in your own brain.
>> And then on top of that you just know that they get to even if they're in prison,
>> they're living. They get to see the sun. They get to eat a meal. They get to play
a card game maybe in prison. Like they just get to go about >> life to some degree and your child
doesn't. like I you would want to [ __ ] destroy that person and you're not able to.
>> I can't imagine it. >> It's my heart goes out to all these families. But >> according to Mexican uh deputy attorney
general Jose Louie Romero Ais uh Sandra was the primary aggressor and Cortez was
his accomplice which did kind of line up with the theory >> what they were saying.
>> One very determined person, one very possibly reluctant person. He said, uh, the Mexican deputy attorney general said
he forced the young girls to submit. This is a lot, sorry. Then he raped them, tied them up, and shot them once
they were dead. He said the two men cut up their bodies before setting fire to the store,
>> which I was like, wrong. Where does it say that? >> No, they didn't. But although Mexico uh
typically doesn't extradite Mexican nationalists to or national sorry to foreign countries, Mexican law does
allow for Mexicans to be tried for crimes committed outside of the country while they're still in the country,
which is interesting. >> Yeah. >> Um but they made it clear to the the American press that they intended to
pursue charges on behalf of Texas. Okay. Which is pretty cool. >> Yeah. So, while the families of the
victims remained pretty ambivalent about the arrest and the announcement of the charges, investigators were unimpressed
at best. Not only was it unclear why these men had confessed to such a heinous crime when they were only
arrested on like pretty [ __ ] up charges, but nothing that crazy. >> Much lesser than that.
>> Yeah, like drugs and guns. But they also seem to have almost no familiarity with
the case or the details of the murders. >> I mean, that feels like a pretty red flag. The biggest deal being he said
they cut up the b the bodies weren't cut up. >> Yeah. >> Also, according to the Mexican attorney
general there, uh, Severra had been an employee of the yogurt shop at one time in the past, but a quick check of the
employment records found no record of either man having worked for them. >> Oh, yeah. This is getting quickly
falling apart at the seams. >> Yeah. And further complicating matters was the fact that authorities in Mexico
were also refusing to allow Austin investigators to even speak with the suspects. So there was no way to get an
impression of what they did and didn't know firsthand. What the hell? Now, to the surprise of virtually no one
involved, the two suspects ultimately recanted their confessions just a few days later.
>> I wonder why. >> And they said they'd been beaten by police in Mexico and forced to confess.
>> I don't know what happened. Just saying that that's what they said. But okay,
now the short-lived excitement question mark. I don't even know if anybody was necessarily excited. I think it was just
Yeah. hope. Uh it was all very short-lived. And it proved to be the last piece of significant news in the
yogurt shop murders for more than seven years. >> Wow. >> So that big huge thing happened where
they're like, "We have these two suspects. They know everything. They even know more than we know." And
>> then it just falls apart. >> No, they don't. >> And then it's just like that's it. And
then seven years goes by. Then years later, much to everybody's surprise, Austin police chief Stan Kne called a
press conference to announce that three men had been arrested for the murders based largely on confessions that they
gave to the police when they were first interviewed 8 years earlier. Oh, which is interesting because 8 years earlier
the police were saying they had absolutely nothing and had ruled everybody out. >> I was going to say, where was that?
Well, according to NE, the arrests were the result of a new initiative launched a year earlier where detectives were
re-examining old leads, you know, trying to get somewhere, including the many confessions received at the time. So,
the story of how the arrests came to be started just 8 days after the murders were committed, like way back seven
years or 8 years earlier, when police arrested 16-year-old Maurice Pierce, who was reportedly walking around the North
Cross Mall a few blocks away from the yogurt shop carrying a 22 caliber pistol. >> Oh. which I don't know if you remember
was one of the guns that was used in the murders. >> At the time, Pierce was in the company
of his friend, 15-year-old Forest Welbborne, who was also arrested at that time.
>> When they were interviewed at the station, they claimed that on the night of the murders, they were with two other
friends, Rob Springsteen and his roommate Mike Scott, who were both 17 years old. Now, during their interviews
with Pierce and Wellbourne, Maurice Pierce supposedly told the police that the gun that he had in his possession
had been used in the yogurt shop murders and but that I think he had said originally like it wasn't his gun. It
was like a community gun. >> A community gun? >> Yeah. There was like parties that were
held in like a creek behind the yogurt shop and they would stash the gun there. >> They just shared it.
>> They pretty much is what they were saying. Okay. And he said, "I do know this was used in the yogurt shop
murders, but I didn't commit them." >> Okay. He's like, "Yeah, absolutely. That was used, but not mine."
>> If you happen to, you know, >> just in case >> link these up, that wasn't me.
>> That it belongs to everybody. >> So that was weird. This that this gun belonged to everybody. But after
speaking with both boys for several hours, they concluded that Pierce had made up the story and let both of them
go. >> Wow. The next day when Pierce was asked about the claim for a second time, he
admitted he was lying when he said that gun had been used in the murder. >> Guys, stop lying about that to police.
But again, remember, >> there was some weird tactics going on. >> Stuff going on.
>> Yeah. >> I really again recommend the documentary cuz they go super far into it.
>> We got to be careful with what we say, you know. >> Yeah. Allegedly. >> I'm not HBO.
>> We're not home box office. >> Yeah, you got to throw in allegedly. >> Allegedly. So, at the time, detectives
took Pierce at his word. He was just a kid who didn't really seem to understand the gravity of the situation that, you
know, he was in and was just messing around. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It's a lot. But 8 years later,
desperate for new leads, investigators, who were also working under a new chief of police.
>> Oh. Went back to the original case file and looked over those confessions. And
that's when the interviews with Maurice Pierce and Forest Well, started to jump out at them. M
>> according to the investigator's notes on the interview, they strongly suspected
the teenagers, particularly Rob uh Rob Springsteen and Mike Scott, were withholding critical information.
So the new members of the task force tracked all of these guys down who they were now adults at this time in 1999 to
reinter them about that night. So this time around, detectives interviewed Rob Springsteen and Mike Scott several more
times, including one interrogation that lasted almost 18 hours. Holy [ __ ] I want everybody to like imagine the last
18 hours of their life. >> I was just going to say this is one of those situations where you really do
need a basis of comparison. >> Yeah. You got to sit down for a sec. So 18 hours ago for us, what's it? It's
4:00 right now. >> Yeah. >> So what's that? 12 hours ago it was 4:00 in the morning, right?
>> Mhm. >> And then add four more hours to that. 4 3 2 1 11. I was getting ready for bed.
>> Yeah. >> Last night 18 hours ago, and it's literally almost dinner time now. >> You'd just be, you know, finishing up
your interrogation right now. >> Yeah. So you would be literally for the entirety that I was brushing my teeth,
doing my skin care routine, scrolling on TikTok in my bed, sleeping for like six
hours, went to her exercise class this morning, got home, showered, drove to work, ate breakfast, did some [ __ ] at
work. Like I did a million things in 18 hours >> and we're getting ready to like end the
day. >> Yeah. >> And it's all of that time would have been >> interrogation >> in an interrogation room. Yeah.
>> Just just sit with that. Yeah. >> So, finally, after being repeatedly pressed by police during those 18 hours,
and that was just one of the interrogations, there was multiple like couple days worth. Finally, Mike Scott
broke down and confessed to the murders. >> That one I can see. >> It's very Jesse Miss Kelly.
>> It was giving me these vibes. >> Yeah. Uh, if you don't know that, the West Memphis 3 case, we covered it. Go
back. I think we did it in like three parts. >> Yeah, I think so. >> It has a very similar heir to this case,
actually. >> Yeah. So, according to Scott, the four boys had been hanging out in the food
court at Northcross Mall on the night of December 6th, 1991 when Maurice Pierce said something about how he needed
money. He told the detectives, "I don't remember the specifics about what was brought up, but Maurice and Rob talked
about robbing a place." He said they all left the mall. They drove around for a little bit looking for a place to rob.
And that's when they spotted the I can't believe it's yogurt shop. They went inside. They ordered some yogurt. Nobody
saw them in there that night, by the way. >> Oh. then casually cased the store looking for entrances and exits before
leaving and returning to the mall. >> Okay. Later that night, just before the shop was set to close, they all four of
them returned to the store. According to Scott, Forest Wellorn uh waited in the car as a lookout while the other three
gained entry through the back door, which was slightly a jar. He said one of the girls said something like, "Hey,
what are you doing here? You don't belong here." And that's when Maurice pulled out his gun. Okay.
>> It's very >> It It feels very like a script you would see, you know, hey, you what are you
doing? You don't you don't belong here. >> That doesn't sound like a teenage girl.
>> I don't think so. So that's when Maurice pulled out his gun. Mike watched the
back door and Maurice went to the cash register, demanded it be opened. When he saw there was no money in the drawer, he
became I rate because which actually would have made sense. >> Absolutely. >> Because remember the money had already
been transferred into the deposit box. He became my rate and yelled, "Where the [ __ ] is the rest of the money?" But the
girls explained it had already been dropped in the safe for the night. And that was that.
>> Yeah. >> A few minutes later, that was that for the money. I mean, a few minutes later,
Pierce called out for Scott to come help him, Michael Scott. And when he got to the back of the store, Michael Scott saw
that all four girls had been stripped nude and were tied up. So, we're to believe that Maurice Pierce pretty much
did that entire part alone. >> Mhm. He said, "I believe this is the way it was because I don't remember pulling
their clothes off." >> Feel like that's something you would remember. >> Yeah. As Pierce was yelling at them
demanding money, the gun just went off. >> Oh, the classic >> killing one of the girls, which I need
you to remember, these girls were killed execution style. >> Yes. But it accident doesn't make sense.
>> Just went off. >> Yeah. Then >> then whenever you hear that in the story, question.
>> Yeah. Big question marks. Then Scott said he heard a second shot and then a third. Frightened, he ran to the other
side of the store where he said he found, and this is explicit, he said he found Rob Springsteen sexually
assaulting Sarah Harbison. He said, "I told Rob that wasn't that wasn't right. That's not what he came for." And at
that point, he stopped. >> Okay. None of this is very believable in my opinion. >> Very believable. And I know that we know
the end result here. >> So obviously that's influencing us a bit. >> Yeah. It's a little bit of confirmation
bias. I I will admit that. But looking at it now, I'm like, "This doesn't sound believable." Oh, like even if I didn't
know what the end result was. >> It's like some of the details fit very perfectly.
>> Yeah, like the cash register not being full. But >> but then like you were saying, a lot of
it sounds scripted. And it's I think I've also now that we've mentioned the West Memphis 3 case in that case
allegedly pieces of information were fed to kind of fit >> according to that cash register who we
are talking about a very similar thing >> happened that cash register information
could have been fed. I'm not saying it was I'm just saying like I'm hypo I'm I'm theorizing here. I'm being
hypothetical. >> We're alleging. I'm alleging so hard. I'm alleging. >> Alleged.
>> I have a force field of a ledge around me. >> That's iconic. >> Yeah. >> So, back to the story. It's very bleak.
Once all four girls had been shot, PICE demanded that Michael Scott retrieve a can of Zippo lighter fluid
>> from the car and spray it around the store. Michael Scott said he did as he was told and then he lit the accelerant
with his lighter. Remember, there was no smell of lighter fluid at the scene. Interesting.
>> According to Scott, he didn't know what he did with the can of lighter fluid. He
said, "I could have thrown I could have threw it on the pile of stuff in the back of the store." But either way, once
the fire had been set, they fled the scene. They went their separate ways with Rob Springsteen and Mike Scott
returning to their apartment. That story also changed later, and I think they said they all four of them ended up
driving to like New Mexico or something. >> Wow. >> Wild. And then it none of it really made
sense. M >> but when he was confronted with Mike Scott's confession and after hours and
hours and hours of interrogation, Rob Springsteen told police a similar story to Scott.
So, so and again when you think of it this way like again we have confirmation bias because we know that it's been
solved now. So that is a thing. But you think about like being a family member or like a loved one or something here
after years of nothing and then suddenly they bring back suspects that they already looked at
>> and they and they say we were able to crack them. I wouldn't question it. >> No way.
>> I would never in a million years question >> because it honestly I don't care what
they said. I would be like okay that makes sense. >> Well it's like oh you talked to them
originally like and now >> then they must have been suspicious >> upon a second look. Okay. Wow. Like
that's very valid that that I'm sure some of them I don't know. But I'm just saying like if some of them were sitting
there being I I personally would probably be like thank goodness this this makes sense to me.
>> It's interesting when I they interview some of the family members in the documentary and some of them were very
like relieved >> like this is it for >> and then some of them were not quite so sure.
>> Yeah. So it really shows you it really is like a spectrum of how nobody's going
to react the same way. But >> remember it's four different families here. >> Yeah. I I just I I can sit here right
now from my position and be like, "Oh, well that doesn't make sense. That sounds unscripted. That how could you
believe that?" And then I think of the other side of the coin and I would 100% believe that cuz I would want to.
>> And also remember this is the mid '9s or late at this point late '9s in Texas.
You still want to believe police. >> Yeah, of course. And like police are to be believed in general, but now we have
some more examples of cases like this that these things happen. A little bit of a precedent for other
things sometimes. >> But so Rob Springsteen told a very similar story and he admitted in his
confession the fact that he had been carrying a semi-automatic handgun that fired 380 caliber ammunition, which was
the second kind of ammunition. So surrounded by a large assembly of investigators as well as obviously the
families of the victims, Chief Knee told the crowd of reporters on December 6th,
1991, we as a city lost our innocence. Today, we can regain our confidence. After nearly a decade of frustration and
dead ends, the arrest definitely marked a significant win in what to a lot of people felt like a case that was just
never going to be solved. Uh Jeff Rusk, who was a lawyer for all the family, said, "You have a sense of relief may
finally be served." H. So, the announcement of the arrest might have brought some sense of relief, but it
also begged the question, if investigators had known about the supposed confession for so long, why did
they then wait 7, 8 years to arrest these four guys? >> I mean, that is interesting.
>> That's weird. >> That would be a question. >> At the time, investigators were very
tight- lipped about their pursuit of the four accused, and they didn't share any
information about the evidence that supported the confessions, which you can understand. They're in the middle of
trying to get charges, >> of course. But as far as anybody knew, there wasn't really a lot of evidence
discovered at the crime scene like we said. And so much of that had been corrupted by the efforts to put out the
fire like we also said. So if all the evidence was so compelling against them, how was it that none of the previous
investigators had picked up on it? That would be a question because that's the thing like you can have these four
suspects and you can say like we're moving forward and we feel strongly about it and we have so much evidence
against them but like where did all that evidence come from if you never really had much to begin with
>> cuz like which is it right? >> Did did you not have much to begin with or did you sit on it
>> exactly? So in fact over the course of the investigation the predominant theory
remember was that two adult men committed this crime. Yeah. At the time, residents were told that the killers
were uh into vampires, the occult, and graveyard rights, which >> that that does hearken back to Memphis
3. >> But also, none of that was true about the accused back then or at this point.
Back in the day, they were just kind of like regular like teenagers. >> Yeah, teenagers. They kind of came from
like a couple of them came from tough family situations and that kind of thing, but none of them were like,
>> you know, praying to Satan in their background. >> Satanic rituals. >> Yeah. And in all the witness statements
that described suspicious people in the area, like I said, no one saw them in the area that night.
>> And that's a sticky point. >> And four teenage boys, I'm going to remember that experience.
>> Yeah. >> Like I'm going to remember being like, "Oh yeah, four teenage boys. They were
loud. They were annoying." Yeah, >> I remember them. >> I was at a gas station the other night
and there was four teenage boys and I was like, I'm not going inside. [ __ ] that.
>> I remember them. >> And I do I remember them right now. That was like the other night.
>> So, at the time the murders were committed, even the oldest among them, by the way, uh Rob Springsteen and Mike
Scott, wouldn't have been mistaken for adult men. >> They look like children. >> Yeah, they were 17 years old. And on top
of that, none of them looked like the police sketch that was widely circulated after the murders occurred either.
>> I mean, these are all sticky points. >> Yeah. not, you know, >> not smoking gun.
>> It's all circumstantial, but still. >> So, while the members of the newly reformed task force were very
enthusiastic about the arrests, a lot of people, including some of the families of the victims, took a more measured
approach. They had been burned before in this investigation. >> Yeah, that's smart.
>> Mike Harbison told reporters after the announcement of the arrests, "We simply
do not have enough information and haven't gotten our emotions together enough to make a comment at this point."
>> And you don't have to. >> And you absolutely don't have to. I hate when they're like, "What do you want to
say about this?" It's like, "Let them grieve." >> These poor people had years and years
and years of reporters just knocking on their doors consistently. >> I can't even picture that.
>> Rough. For their part, the families of the accused were even more skeptical, which obviously you could expect, but to
the point of completely refusing to accept this theory. >> Maurice Pierce's wife, Kimberly, said,
"They don't have the right person. I know my husband. It's just not within him to commit murder. He couldn't hurt a
fly." >> Which is sad. Like you I mean you don't want to believe that a man you married
seven years earlier murdered four teenage girls when he was a teenager himself. >> Yeah. No.
>> Like that's horrifying. >> I mean whenever I hear the he couldn't hurt a fly comment I'm like you should
snip that one off because for some reason whenever somebody says that it does backfire sometimes.
>> It doesn't normally go in their favor. >> Yeah. Well like I mentioned earlier the
skepticism from the public was not without justification. The investigation, as we have been talking
about, dragged out for years without a lot of progress. And in that time, a few police errors came to light. And one of
the task force members, Hector Palano, had been kicked off the case amid allegations that he had coerced a
confession. >> There it is. >> And that there were like some not so great tactics being used on other
confessions. >> Yeah. >> And there was also the fact that everything about the arrest very much
seemed to be too convenient. When the bodies were first discovered, detectives were baffled by the crime scene, the
lack of motive, the sheer brutality, the cruelty. And now all of a sudden, they made four arrests and all the details
just perfectly fell into place. Journalist Mike Call remembered, "We had this kind of poetic closure. Four boys
had killed four girls, but it just seemed a little bit too poetic." >> Yeah. >> In the years since the murders, the
victims had been memorialized in many, many ways, most of which focused on their purity and their innocence. So, it
seemed fitting that their accused killers, who were around the same ages of the victims at the time, were
discovered to be their exact opposites. >> Of course, where Jennifer Harbison quote
brought joy into the classroom and Amy er made good grades and good friends, Maurice Pierce was described as having
attended a school that served dropouts and students with discipline problems. And Mike Scott was described in similar
terms with one reporter saying that he repeated his sophomore year and dropped out of Austin schools 12 months after
the killings which they also pointed to as like a big thing like oh a year later
he dropped out of school. Was it the trauma of having murdered four girls? >> Wow.
>> Which it could have been. >> Absolutely. >> But also it could have been life.
>> Yeah. I was going to say going on. >> Yeah. But when you put it together with
this timeline and with what you think is going on, it begins to confirmation bias
kind of sneaks in there. >> But again, it's so very similar to the West Memphis 3 case where it's like
>> you have this case where three young boys were murdered and then you go after
three >> teenage boys who are like >> four girls are murdered. >> Exactly. >> It's very interesting. So, in the days
that followed the announcement, each of the suspects were arraigned on murder charges. But the picture that emerged of
each of them was not what anybody would have expected of people who committed such an atrocity, like horrible,
horrible, violent act. >> By all accounts, the four suspects were pretty unremarkable teenagers when the
murders were committed. Like most teenagers, they spent their time hanging out at the mall. They drank beer in the
park occasionally, and they fought with their parents. But nowhere in their histories was there any indication that
they were capable of committing violent violent sexual assault. >> This isn't just like a small thing.
>> This is robbery, rape, murder, and arson >> times four. >> So no, there was no clues in any of
their past that they were capable of this. And actually at the time of their arrest, everyone who knew them
personally spoke highly of them. Like there was other people who were like, "Oh, like they dropped out of school and
they were delinquents and blah blah blah." But one person said of Michael Scott, "He's never so much as raised his
voice." And Rob Springsteen's landlord described him and his wife as super. You couldn't ask for better renters.
>> Wow. Which again, flipping it on its head. We hear that [ __ ] all the time with like brutal, brutal cases that we
cover where the people are guilty. >> But then in this case, you have to look at it twice.
>> Yeah. Because you say, "Okay, >> I can say that about anybody." >> Exactly. >> People can be chameleons. Exactly.
>> Or people can just be who they are. >> So in November, the public finally heard
the details of the arrests and the confessions when Maurice Pierce and Forest Wellorn appeared in court for
their hearing to determine if they were actually going to be certified to stand trial as adults because they were both
juveniles when the murders were committed. Mhm. >> During the hearing, investigators
testified about the state of the crime scene, the details of the injuries sustained by the four victims, the
confessions given, first by Maurice Pierce in 1991 and then by Scott and Springsteen in 1999. So, at the end of
the hearing, Judge Janine Mure was pretty convinced that there was probable cause, and she certified both as adults,
clearing the way for them to be indicted. >> Dang. Within a few weeks, three of the
four would be indicted on four counts of capital murder. But the grand jury actually declined to indict Forest
Wellborn due to a lack of compelling evidence. >> Oh. >> Because remember, Forest was said to be
the lookout. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Like in the car. So, the arrests and the indictments and
a flurry of activity that followed were exciting for investigators and gave some
hope to the families that after all these years, they might get some justice. But that excitement did not
last very long. In May of 2000, just 5 months after the indictments were handed down by a grand jury, the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms released a report finding that after careful analysis, the gun confiscated from
Maurice Pierce in 1991 was unlikely to have been the weapon used in the Yogurt Shop murders.
>> Wow. Now, since his possession of the gun was the reason for his arrest in 1991 and
the single thing that pointed investigators in the direction of these four men in the first place, this was a
critical blow for the prosecution >> who literally did not have one shred of physical evidence tying any of these
four or three at this point to the murders. >> Damn. Now, in their confessions, both
Mike and Rob told investigators that they had vague memories of throwing the weapons into the Colorado River on the
night of the murders. So, investigators, as soon as it came out that like Maurice
Pierce's gun wasn't the one, they were like, "Okay, well, there's other weapons."
>> So, they immediately started dragging the river in search of the original murder weapon. But by that time, 9 years
had passed and at least six floods had washed out the river. Damn. So the likelihood of finding anything was very
slim, >> very low. >> But the prosecution now seemed desperate. So they searched anyway.
>> In an expose for Texas Monthly the next year, journalist Mike Hall wrote, "There
was no more apt symbol of the Austin Police Department's troubles than images on the news of cops literally fishing
for clues." >> That's the thing. I was like, I I would get it if it felt it felt like it was a
compelling case that had everything you needed and you just needed this one thing,
>> a literal smoking gun, >> and that it was leaning in the direction of like these are the guys and I just
need this to prove it. >> Then like going, you know, putting forth those resources makes sense.
>> Yeah, of course. These are >> human lives. Like who should do that? But it's like when it is so clearly
going the other way. >> Yeah. >> Those resources could be better much well spent somewhere else. And it's like
this is when I'm like >> it's very do that. >> Yeah. It just didn't feel like a good a
good use of it. Definitely not a good use of resources because unsurprisingly their search turned up literally
nothing. >> And that was only the beginning of the Austin Police Department's problems. On
May 31st, less than a month after the report on the gun not being the gun was released, a shocking photograph taken
from Mike Scott's police interrogation was published in the papers. >> Uhoh. >> Appearing to show Detective Robert
Merrill holding a gun to the back of Michael Scott's head during his investig his interrogation.
>> Oh [ __ ] Yeah. Allegedly. But there's a >> photograph. >> Like, holy [ __ ] >> That'll change things for everybody.
>> What? >> I will never watching the West Memphis 3 stuff changed my like I because I just
don't get it. >> I don't think closing a case pretenses is more important than finding
out who actually did it. >> Actual murderers. understand that it's like you want to close the case because
you want to bring justice. That's that's supposed to be what you go to law enforcement for.
>> And it's like but like in the West Memphis 3 case they knew. >> Oh, I mean they were hiring allegedly
people to make up things >> like allegedly. And it's like they knew and it's like how do you feel good about
that? The killers are still killer or killers are still running around and you're just sitting there shoehorning
someone into the I know >> and it's like do you not >> you have to wonder there has to be some
part of them >> on the flip side of it. You have to wonder if they so desperately
want to believe that this is true that somehow they convince themselves that it's true. That's the only thing that
makes sense, I think, because otherwise I can't understand ruining somebody's life.
>> Yeah. >> An innocent person's life >> on false pretenses >> to close a case. >> Exactly.
>> And letting somebody like an actual killer, a very dangerous animal of a human being go, you know, like just cuz
you don't want to do the work. So I have to believe that what you said is true that it's like some maybe they convince
themselves that >> I think the human brain works in very very mysterious ways when
>> life and death is involved. You know what I mean? I don't think we understand
all of it. >> It's just knowing that it's like holding a gun to his head. >> Yeah. That's next level. That's like
even if you do believe that he killed these four young women, you can't >> do that. And also did you not think like
what was the point of taking a photograph of that? That's the other thing. I'm like, who took that picture?
>> Couldn't tell you. >> Yeah. So, since their arrest the previous year though, all four suspects
had maintained their innocence, by the way. And both Mike Scott and Rob Springsteen claimed that their
confessions, the only thing tying them to the murders, by the way, >> had been coerced and given under
distress or duress, which we now had a photo of. >> Yeah. The public uh publication of the
picture from Mike Scott's interrogation, which was included in a motion to move his trial to a different uh county,
seemed to support their statement. In a response to the image going public, the prosecutor's office released their own
statement saying, "The description contained in the motion of the photograph of Detective Robert Merrill
and Michael Scott is inaccurate." Like, it's a photo. Um, >> how is a photo inaccurate?
>> Yeah, you're going to have to explain that one to me. Yeah, but skeptics like
defense attorney and former Austin Police Department officer Jamie uh Balag Balagia noted that the single image
might not be representative of the real situation. But the officer added, "At the same time, I don't know under what
circumstances that would be appropriate." That's the problem there cuz it's like
of course you're looking at one single image. I'm saying this in a generalized manner of like always if you look at a
single image it's hard to tell >> the greater context around it >> but then there's some images that you go
>> context makes sense to put a gun to someone's head. >> Yeah. >> You know like that's even if he's like
>> cuz I don't think there's really any I mean we talked a lot about um protocols
in our last episode. >> I have never taken the police exam. I've never been a police officer. I really
don't even know very many police officers, but I really can't imagine that there's a lot of instances in which
he would hold a gun to a suspect's head. >> That's the thing. And the only thing,
this is literally me just like pulling this out of my ass. >> The only thing he could ever argue, I
would think, is that he was like showing what happened to the girls. >> Okay. Yeah. But if you're doing that by
putting your gun to this person under interrogation's head, that by nature is intimidation. It's like even if you're
not actually if you're saying that it's just to show what happened or something,
you're putting a gun to someone's head because at that point, no matter what. Yeah. You just need to use like your
finger like a finger gun. >> A finger gun like and it's like >> which is not going to result exactly the
same. >> Exly. So no matter what, it's an intimidation tactic. Regardless of what
pretense it was done under, >> intimidation is there because anybody who has a gun put to their head is going
to be whatever the [ __ ] you want them >> and they're going to have an immense emotional, physical, psychological
reaction to that. It's just going to happen. So you're already twisting >> the circumstances to fit what you needed
to fit. >> And also, who knows at what point in his interrogation that took place? Michael
Scott was the person who was interrogated for 18 hours. >> Yeah. And I some of the sources say 22
hours. >> That's insane. >> Which like so anywhere between anywhere in that situ like that's insane.
>> Yeah. It's >> and can you imagine how exhausted you would be and having a gun put to your
head. >> That's the thing. You're exhausted and then they pull out a gun and put it to
your head. >> And again under any context, >> not great. >> Not great. >> Not great.
>> No. So, within a matter of just a few weeks, the case against Pierce, Springsteen, and Scott had gone from
strongish to seriously questionable. Yeah. But the prosecution's problems were far from
over. In June, Diana Castanada, one of the grand jury members who had indicted all three men, wrote to the judge, Mike
Lynch, and quote, "Complained the jurors had been used as pawns in what I assume
to be a rush judgment." >> Whoa. That was one of the jury members. >> Whoa. In Castana's opinion, the grand
jury had been heavily pressured by the district attorney's office who were eager to close the case on the yogurt
shop murders regardless of what the evidence told them. >> A year later, in an interview with my
call, she said, "I wish this case had been done properly. I'm afraid we have taken the easy way and that all the
facts aren't in it." >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. Diana Costanada's concerns about fair the fairness of the grand jury
hearings were alarming in and of themselves. >> Yeah. But it was also concerning that
she had even learned about them at all because grand jury proceedings are supposed to be secret.
>> Yeah. >> And only the outcome of the hearing is made public. So by airing her concerns
with the judge and then with a journalist that basically compromised the entire process.
>> Yeah. >> Which like >> probably good that that happened, but how did that even happen in the first
place? So just two weeks later, another bombshell dropped when Detective Paul Johnson, a member of the yogurt shop
task force, revealed that back in 1999, a ballistics expert with the Austin Police Department informed him that
Pice's gun almost certainly not the gun used in the murders. So that was like way back when. Oops. At this point, the
report from the ATF had more or less ruled out that Pierce's gun was the murder weapon. So the news itself was
not significant. It was just like the implication. >> It was Yeah. >> When investigators first interrogated
them again, like for the second time in 1999, they did so based on Pierce's false confession from 1991 and the fact
that his gun supposedly matched the caliber used in the shooting. >> But if what Johnson said was true, that
meant that detectives knew that his gun wasn't a match at least 9 months before they spoke with him. Again,
>> it's like, what the [ __ ] What is going on here? It doesn't. It's It's messy.
>> So, on their own, each of these revelations raised serious questions about the validity of all these
confessions and the cause for arrest. But taken together, they suggested that other than a false confession from a
teenager that was immediately recanted, investigators never actually even had a reason to suspect these four men in the
first place. >> That's even scarier. It's terrifying. By that point, the only thing connecting
the three accused to the murders were Scott and Springsteen's confessions, which again, they both claimed they had
been coerced. And that claim seemed to be supported again by the the photograph that we were just talking about. Now,
just as important to the growing evidence of police misconduct was what the limited evidence collected from the
scene had to say about the killer or the killers. In 1991, like I was saying earlier, DNA technology was obviously
still developing, but Sarah Harbison had been sexually assaulted and Amy had fought back against her attacker. So
that obviously produced physical evidence from both of them in seinal fluid and skin cells. By the time
Maurice Pierce, Michael Scott, and Rob uh Rob Springsteen were facing capital murder charges, by the way, in 2000, DNA
technology had come a long way and could at the very least be used to rule out a
suspect or suspects. On June 30th, a report from the Texas Department of Public Safety was released and it
clearly stated that DNA collected from the crime scene was not a match for any of these three men and their DNA had not
been found anywhere else at the scene. >> This is literally an echo of the West Memphis 3 case.
>> It's chilling. That's exactly what happened. >> And the rest is too. >> Oh. >> So, it doesn't necessarily exonerate
them fully. >> No. But it's insane. >> But it shows that they were not like, you know, they the DNA that was found is
not theirs. >> Exactly. >> So that's like significant. >> It's significant and handinhand with
everything else. It's extra extra significant. >> And it obviously presented yet another
serious challenge for the prosecution. It weakened their case in general. And it also contradicted Mike Scott's
confession because part of his confession was that Rob Springsteen had sexually assaulted Sarah Harbison. And
that just disproved that completely, which makes his whole confession come into question.
>> And you basically got to throw it out at that point. >> Despite all the publicity about
corruption, ab abuse, and the growing amount of evidence indicating that these three suspects had nothing to do with
this case, investigators pressed on. >> Oh man. >> Hoping that the confessions, which we
just told you are [ __ ] tainted as all hell, would be enough to secure a conviction. They just barreled through,
huh? And it's it's hard to imagine. >> Yeah. >> But now, present day, we've become
obviously, we were even saying it earlier, more cynical, more sophisticated when it comes to our
knowledge of the law. But in the early 2000s, it was pretty reasonable to assume that Springsteen and Scott
wouldn't have com confessed to crimes that they didn't commit. >> It would be a widely held belief that
innocent people just simply do not confess to things that they didn't do. >> Yeah.
>> Except they do. It actually happens so much more often than we think. And we've
talked about it quite a few times on this show. >> And it's really scary. But at that time,
>> people just didn't think that way. >> Why would you ever say >> all the awful things if I mean, you
watch their interrogations and they're >> very graphic? >> Why would anybody ever say they did that
when they had no part of it? But we now know so much more. >> Exactly. >> I just said that all pretty much. I was
just like reiterating myself, but it's just insane. >> It's true. So, a lot of times in
investigations, detectives go out of their way to keep certain aspects of the crime from the public in order to rule
out those suspects who didn't know the details. >> Yeah. >> But during interrogations, especially
very long, very intense interrogations that say last 18 to 22 hours and involve holding a gun to somebody's head, I
don't know, >> maybe >> a great deal of information can be conveyed to the person being
interviewed, whether investigators even know they're doing it or not. >> Yep. through photographs, accusations,
repeated questions about the crime scenes, and different aspects of the interrogation, investigators can feed
critical details about the case to a suspect who then turns around and repeats those things back to the
investigator to appease them and in some cases and allegedly possibly this one, avoid physical harm.
>> Yep. >> As a result, people who are under this stress, this anxiety end up confessing
to crazy [ __ ] that they did. >> Absolutely. can be manipulated. >> In the summer of 2002, Rob Springsteen
though and Michael Scott went on the trial for the murders. And despite there being no physical evidence and really at
this point just no [ __ ] evidence at all connecting them to the murders, juries in both cases found them guilty
after deliberating for less than three hours. >> Holy [ __ ] >> During the sentencing phase, Rob
Springsteen was sentenced to death. >> My god. and Michael Scott received a life sentence with no possibility for
parole. >> And again, if if they were guilty of these things, then you're like, >> well, you know, you did the crime. You
got to do the time. But it's like with all the questions, it's like to go that far to be sentenced to death with all
those lingering questions is >> is >> very West Memphis 3. It's also just so scary to think of a time where we just
thought as a community and like as a public like no people don't confess the things they didn't do so lock them up
and >> no matter what. >> Like that's crazy. So they were sentenced the two of them Rob and Mike
and Maurice Pierce was sitting in a jail cell awaiting his trial. So once the sentences were handed down with the same
fate pretty likely for me Maurice Pierce, it seemed like the painful saga of the yogurt shop murders was finally
coming to a close. However, when Rob Springsteen's appeal finally made it to court in the spring of 2006, Austin
residents hope of putting the murders behind them completely fell apart. Springsteen's defense attorney, Mary K.
Ciola, argued because Springsteen's arrest and conviction had depended almost entirely on Michael Scott's
confession, and Springsteen had been denied the right to question Scott, his accuser. That's like one of our basic
rights at his trial. >> His rights had been violated. >> Oh. Ultimately, it was like a very loopy
hole. >> Pretty minor technicality. Not minor, but it was a technicality. >> Loophole.
>> Exactly. But it worked. >> The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals agreed and they overturned his
conviction and remanded him to the custody of Travis County Sheriff's Office to either be retrieded or
released. Wow. >> And remember, that's a huge [ __ ] deal because he was facing the death pen like
he was he got the death penalty. >> Wow. Mary Kay. >> Mary Kay, not the makeup, the lawyer.
Yeah. >> Also, I just said bronze. >> The makeup bronze. >> The makeup bronze. >> Also, I have to get this out of the way.
>> Go for it. >> Michael Scott. >> Okay. Every time you say it, I can't. Okay. I just got to get it out of the
way. I know. You know, we all know. We all We're all knowing. Yeah. >> That we're thinking of The Office.
>> I was actually surprised that you didn't say it earlier. >> I was cuz it's it seemed insensitive at
at certain points. So, I figured I'd wait until now >> cuz I just got to get it out. Just so
you you guys listening cuz I know >> that you also thought that and I don't want you to think that I'm pretending I
didn't. >> There were so many times in this that I was trying to write Mike instead of
Michael simply for that purpose cuz he was called both. >> Yeah. >> Just got to put that out.
>> If you can imagine, things got even worse for the prosecution the following year.
>> Jesus. >> When Mike Scott's appeal reached the appeals court. Among other things, his
appeal argued that his constitutional rights had also been violated when Austin police coerced a confession from
him during that 1999 interrogation. At the initial trial, the prosecution claimed that there were details that of
the confession that only the killers could have known. However, Scott's lawyer argued that nearly all of the
information provided in the confession had been made publicly available over the years in press releases, newspapers,
and word of mouth, quote, originating from the numerous police officers and firefighters who had responded to the
crime scene. >> Oh man, >> remember had small town vibes. >> Certainly did. >> Small town people.
>> Yeah, they're talking. >> Talk talk talk. So, the defense also argued that many of the details of the
confession were just straight up wrong and contradicted facts of the case. >> You got a question.
>> It's like they were so excited about the things that did fit >> that they ignored the ones that didn't.
>> Yeah. So, in a five to four decision handed down in June of 2007, the Texas appeals court ruled in favor of Mike
Scott and they reversed his conviction. Wow. >> So, we now have two appeals courts
agreeing with the convicted. So in their conclusion, they basically said that because the confession was the only
thing that could move the jury to find Michael Scott guilty and there was serious cause to question the validity
validity of that confession in the first place, it would have been impossible for
the jury to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt. >> Th those are the key words, beyond a
reasonable doubt. >> Exactly. So the news that both convictions had now been overturned was
met with joy from the defendants obviously, but for the families it was like being revictimized all over again.
>> That must have felt like being tased. I can't even >> think of that. >> Well, and like
>> you we're happy that we have a justice system where you can appeal your conviction because of cases like this.
But when you're sitting there as a a a family member of somebody who has been tortured essentially and then murdered,
>> you don't give a [ __ ] about the rights of the person who is said to have done
that and who you've been convinced for years at this point did this and is sitting in jail where they should be.
>> Yeah. >> So Eliza Thomas's mother, Maria, said, "Every time I hear those words that
their rights were violated, I feel like I'm going to go insane." Absolutely. >> Which you can 1,000% understand. I would
feel the same [ __ ] way. >> But for the prosecution, who had intended to retry both men, things
continued their downward spiral. >> Damn. >> After the decisions from the appeals
court, Michael Scott and Rob Springsteen's lawyers filed a motion to receive the results of the partial DNA
profile that had been developed from the rape kit, which ruled both of them out.
>> Wow. Still determined to prosecute the case, then district attorney uh Rosemary
Lmberg pressed on, telling a reporter, "I remain really confident that both Springsteen and Scott were responsible
for killing those poor girls." Wow. >> I don't know why she would be so confident.
>> Yeah. But by 2009, there was no new evidence and there were no new leads that had been found to link these two
men to the case. And so Lmberg had no choice but to drop the charges against both of them. And once again, the yogurt
chop murders were an open, unsolved case, >> which for the family is even more it's
it's almost even more heartbreaking. I don't even think almost. It's more heartbreaking than there just never have
been. >> Yeah. >> Like any answer at all. >> It's just catastrophic >> because just they went through all of
this leadup to a trial. They went through trials. They got their convictions. These two men that they
thought did this, like I was saying, spent their time in prison. we're going to be there forever
basically. >> And then all of a sudden you're back to square one and you have no idea who did
this. >> And that's the other thing. It's like they turn around now and say we got
nothing. >> And at that point I'm sure you've lost all faith in the justice system. Oh
yeah. >> I can't imagine. >> So with the charges dropped, Springsteen and Scott were both free men after
nearly a decade spent in prison. >> But just because the district attorney dropped the charges didn't necessarily
exonerate them. And it also remained possible that they could be retrieded at any time should any new information come
to light. So that's terrifying for them. >> Yeah. I mean, it's good because >> you something comes up that's like they
did do it actually. It's like, yeah, you want to bring them in. >> Exactly. So with no new leads or
evidence, the case was effectively shelved for several years, several more years to until new legislation passed in
2021, which gave families of cold case victims the opportunity to petition to have the cases re-examined. In the years
that had passed, DNA technology continued to advance. So, investigators went back to that partial profile taken
from the rape kit, which had ruled everybody out. >> The sample was obviously somewhat
degraded, and it contained only the male portion of the DNA, but it was somewhere
to start. So, investigators ran it through every database that they could think of until they finally got a hit
from a public database used for population studies. But, they ran into a problem.
>> Oh, no. The problem was that the sample had been submitted anonymously by the
FBI and had no identity attached to it. >> The frustration. So that meant whoever
the DNA sample on the database belonged to, they were either a convicted felon in a federal case or an arresty and
privacy laws prevented the FBI from disclosing that person's identity to investigators in Austin. So it's like
you find something but it's like sorry can't tell you. >> We have to know. >> It's like a literal like bridge troll.
Like you shall not pass. >> Yeah. like, okay, but I want to. >> After 30 years, investigators had
finally managed to develop a lead on their most promising suspect in one of Texas's most notorious cold cases, but
they were prevented from knowing the identity of who that person was. >> So, they then spent a few more years
spinning their wheels in frustration until the new head of the cold case unit, Daniel Jackson,
>> Daniel Jackson, >> he decided to take a new approach to the evidence. >> Let's go, Daniel. is actually quite
smart. >> So, in the roughly 15 years since Rob Springsteen and Mike Scott had been
released from prison, 15 years had now gone by. By the way, we're telling this in like an hour and a half, so it's hard
to imagine, but that's a long time. >> Yeah. >> So, since then, the district attorney's
office had been hyperfocused on that DNA pro uh DNA profile, hoping that it would
lead them to who they still believed was Springsteen and Scott's accomplice, because they still believe they were
involved in this. In the years since their release though, technology in the area of law law law enforcement had
advanced in a myriad of ways, including the development of a new law enforcement
database known as the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network. So, like Cotus does with human
identifying characteristics, uh, the NIBIN logs the unique identifying characteristics of bullets used in
crimes across the country, which is really cool. >> Nibbon. >> Nibbon. and that allows investigators to
determine whether a particular gun has been used in other crimes. Unfortunately, Nibbon doesn't include
all types of ammunition and it excludes, among other things, small caliber ammunitions like the 22 caliber bullet,
which we've all become very familiar with. But in considering the evidence recently, it occurred to Jackson that
while the majority of the murders were committed with a 22 caliber weapon, remember Amy Heirs had been shot a
second time with a 380 caliber weapon as well. >> So to everybody's surprise, when the 380
bullet was entered into Nibbon, which we're now calling it, we don't actually know if it's called that.
>> I feel like it's right. >> It's better than Nibbin. I like Nib. >> Exactly. But to everybody's surprise, it
returned as a match to a series of crimes committed in Kentucky in the 1990s. In that case, a family-owned store had
been robbed and the cashier was bound before being shot in the back. >> And before leaving the crime scene, the
killer set the store on fire. >> Oh my god. >> Bound. Shot in the back. >> Hello. Once the bullets had been matched
to a gun used in the other crime, the rest of the pieces of the puzzle all started to fall into place. The DNA
profile taken from the rape kit and the skin cells collected from Amy's fingernails, which had now been further
developed through a citizen genealogologist was run through COS again, and it came back as a hit on a
sexual assault case from 1990. >> The rapist in that case was identified as Robert Eugene Brashers.
>> [ __ ] Truly, that's actually the exact translation to who this person is. >> Is what that's called. I also think it's
wild that the skin cells collected from Amy Heir's fingernails were developed by
citizen genealogologists. >> Thank you actually for that. >> So interesting. >> That is incredible.
>> That's incredible. >> And again, a great representation of community. >> Yes, absolutely.
>> The community in this case did not let anybody down. >> Stepped in. So [ __ ] was born in 1958 in Virginia
and his early life was unremarkable. Once he graduated from high school, he enlisted in the army and served
honorably until his discharge in the early 80s when he settled in New Orleans, which like how dare he even
have the audacity. >> In 1985, Robert Brashers was arrested on charges that he sexually assaulted and
attempted to murder 24year-old Michelle Wilkerson. After shooting Wilkerson and leaving her for dead, he fled the scene,
but she managed to find help and eventually reported him. >> Good for her. >> So, he was arrested a short time later
and convicted and sentenced to 12 years in prison, which you know how I feel about attempted murder.
>> All right. >> But he got released in 1989. >> So, he was just released. >> Just like couple of years.
>> What a [ __ ] animal. In the years that followed, he drifted around the South
and Southwest, committing various crimes, including robberies, breaking and entering, sexual assault, and he was
also suspected in multiple murders. In January 1999, police in Miss uh in Missouri spotted a potentially stolen
vehicle in the parking lot of a motel, and they were directed to one Robert Brasher's room,
>> the man who registered the car when he checked in. They broke down the door of
the motel room, obviously intending to arrest him, but when they got inside, they were immediately forced back out by
the suspect, who had crawled under the bed and was firing from his position there.
>> [ __ ] >> So, over the course of several hours, police attempted to negotiate the
release of his family. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Who were being held hostage in the room
with him until he finally gave up and shot himself in the head. >> I hate that. That's how it ended. 1999.
>> Later, when the ammunition was run through Nibbon, it came back as a match for the 380 used in the other crimes.
>> Wow. >> All of the other crimes. Wow. >> Including the yogurt shop. >> Piece of [ __ ] So, in late September of
this year, 2025, Daniel Jackson called a press conference to announce that after
34 years, it's literally almost your entire life, >> 34 years, >> 34 years of frustration and heartbreak,
investigators could conclusively identify Robert Eugene Brashers as the killer of Amy, Eliza Thomas, Jennifer
Harbison, and Sarah Harbison. >> Wow. >> Journalist Mike Hall said, "I kept expecting some outcry or something, but
it was stunned silence. cuz it's been 34 years. >> Yeah. Like, how do you even do you do
you celebrate? What do you do? >> I don't know what you do. And also, do you celebrate because you've been
wronged before? >> And also, he can't really face justice. >> That's the biggest thing.
>> So, it's like that's even more frustrating. >> That's the biggest thing that is just so
sad. Even though they now have identified Robert Brashers as the sole killer in the yogurt shop murders,
investigators still have a lot of work ahead of them before the case can actually be considered completely
closed. But in the meantime, there's a lot of questions that demand officers from the officers who were in charge of
the case over the previous decades because their poor management, misconduct, and malpractice in general
allowed a killer to go free while two innocent men spent nearly a decade of their lives in prison.
>> That's [ __ ] up. >> And for their part, Mike Scott and Rob Springsteen still continue to call
attention to their case. And they're pursuing, which they still haven't got, by the way, they're still pursuing a
full declaration of innocence from the state. Wow. And if they do secure that declaration, they're both entitled to
financial compensation for wrongful imprisonment. >> Imagine. >> Yeah. >> Holy [ __ ]
>> Those kind of things take a long time, if they ever make sure they do. >> Yeah. Unfortunately though, the
identification of Robert Brashers as the killer in the yogurt shop case came too
late to change the life of Maurice Pierce. In December 2010, he got into an altercation with an Austin police
officer after a traffic stop, and he was killed when he attempted to stab one of
the arresting officers. Holy [ __ ] >> He led you >> can't be stabbing people. >> You definitely can't be stabbing people.
He led a very tough life after >> uh he obviously was like let go from prison when all of this fell through
>> and he had a lot of run-ins with the law. >> Yeah. I mean that whole situation is
[ __ ] up. >> That whole situation is very [ __ ] up and allegedly a lot of people felt like
he was being targeted. >> Yeah. But I don't that I'm not saying. >> So after the press conference where
Robert Brashers was identified as the killer, the district attorney Jose Garza announced his intention to assemble what
he called the convict uh the conviction integrity unit, a group that would be tasked with reviewing certain cases to
ensure that confessions were given voluntarily and that no suspect was coerced or wrongfully detained. That is
so needed. So, so at least like that little bit of justice comes from the lack of other justice that happened in
this case. >> Well, and that's it shows you exactly what these like wrongful, you know,
wrongfully coerced confessions, how much they [ __ ] up a case because that once
they fig once they thought they had these guys, they stopped looking. >> Exactly.
>> So, it's like everything stops. It takes one person luckily that was like, >> I don't know about this and I should
look into it. Thank goodness that person came in and did that. Mhm. >> Otherwise, they would have stopped.
>> That's the thing. >> This would have been it. We never would have found anything else about it. And
we would have thought that, you know, Mike Scott and Rob Springsteen were >> were the ones
>> were the ones who did it and that was it. >> And Rob Springsteen could have been
executed. >> He was supposed to have been executed. I also can't imagine >> coming to grips with that as a person
that like, holy [ __ ] I was almost executed for something I didn't do. >> Like that's insane.
>> I mean, that was Damen Eckles. Yeah. >> Sitting there on death row. Yeah. >> Like that's crazy.
>> That's got to change your life. >> It's very similar. It's >> shocking. >> This whole case really is. And when I
was getting to the end, I was like, I feel like I've heard this before, which is sad
>> cuz you hope that something like that like never >> repeat once in a lifetime thing.
>> But unfortunately, it's not. >> I'm happy for the family members of the four victims that
>> there's a name. >> There's a name. >> You know, I I know it doesn't bring any
>> it doesn't bring them back. It doesn't make it easier. doesn't like closure is
a hard thing to come by. >> I was just going to say like we've heard so many times that there's really no
such thing as closure that they at least have a name. >> Yeah. >> You know, if that helps.
>> And I and I hope it does. >> I hope it does in some way. >> But yeah, it's a very devastating case.
>> It's a horrific case. >> But it shows you no [ __ ] case is cold. >> Nope. No case is cold.
>> There's no such thing as an ice cold case. It's barely chilly. >> It's barely chilly. 34 years.
>> 34 years. And finally, somebody figured it out. And now it's even easier to crack these crimes because we got all
these advancements in DNA and technology. >> We got to know. >> I didn't even know about Nibbon. That is
one of the coolest things to me >> that you can ballistics. >> Ballistics is so fascinating. You said
you took a ballistics class. >> I did take a ballistics class. It was very like a anthropology class. Had a
ballistics element. >> That's cool. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It was very interesting. >> Yeah. Um, so we decided because it's
sometimes so tough to just like transition into like, "Okay, bye. We love you. Keep it weird." We're going to
start doing a random fun fact at the or just like a random fact at the end of episodes. And I found a random fact
generator just now. >> Love that. >> So to leave you on a random note, durian, which grows in Southeast Asia,
is known as the smelliest fruit in the world. Oh my god. You know, I actually knew that. Well, [ __ ] you. I knew what a
durian was. Well, those of you who don't know, I heard you say it under your breath and I was like, did she say
durian? It's supposed to smell like [ __ ] >> It's supposed It It's supposed to smell
like rotten eggs, sweaty socks, or straight up garbage >> socks. That's the thing that like feet.
>> So, we're going to start calling in like we are obviously going to continue using
wet lettuce, but we can add durian into durian fruit. >> You wet lettuce durian fruit.
>> Hell yeah. >> And with that being said, we hope you keep listening. >> I was like I was like, "Sorry, we
changed the end a little bit. I got confused. What's going on?" And we hope you keep listening.
>> And we hope you keep it. weird, but not to these smell like durian. Don't be a
durian fruit like Robert Brashers.

Just before midnight on December 6, 1991, an Austin, TX patrol officer called in a fire at a yogurt shop and requested firefighters and additional officers. Once they managed to get the fire under control, firefighters discovered the bodies of four teenage girls in the burned out remains of the building, all having been shot execution style and the building torched to cover up the crime. Almost immediately, investigators on the case ran into a dead end, as leads were scarce and the fire and efforts to extinguish it destroyed or compromised critical evidence. In short time, the case went cold and the residents of Austin moved on. To their surprise, nearly ten years later, Austin detectives announced they’d arrested for young men for the crime, two of whom confessed, and it seemed like, after a long delay, justice would finally be served; however, in this case, justice was still a long way off and when it finally arrived, it came tainted by police misconduct.

References Associated Press. 1992. "Arrests no relief to families of slain teen-agers." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, October 23: 43. Austin American-Statesman. 1999. "American digest quotes of the week." Austin American-Statesman, October 10: 1. CBS News. 2009. "Deadly encounter." 48 Hours, March 9. Copelin, Laylan, and Leah Quin. 1999. "Police say 2 confessed to killings at yogurt shop." Austin American-Statesman, October 7: 1. Gamboa, Suzanne. 1999. "16-year-old told police in 1991 he had weapon." Austin American-Statesman, October 7: 8. Garcia, Kimberly. 1992. "In the shadow of death." Austin American-Statesman, March 6: 1. —. 1991. "Profiles of killers released." Austin American-Statesman, December 18: 27. Haglund, Kerry. 1991. "More than 1 raided shop, police say." Austin American-Statesman, December 10: 1. —. 1991. "Officials say they have few leads in yogurt shop killings." Austin American-Statesman, December 24: 11. —. 1991. "Slayings of teens stun friends, families." Austin American-Statesman, December 8: 27. Hall, Michael. 2001. "Under the Gun." Texas Monthly, Janaury: 94-115. Lindell, Chuck, and Kerry Haglund. 1991. "The spark of fear." Austin American-Statesman, December 15: 1. Lowry, Beverly. 2016. Who Killed These Girls: The Unsolved Murders that Rocked a Texas Town. New York, NY: Vintage. Martinez, Sylvia. 1991. "Teens' violent deaths mourned." Austin American-Statesman, December 9: 1. Michael Scott v The State of Texas. 2007. PD-0862-05 (Court of Criminal Appeals of Texas, June 6). Pettaway, Taylor. 2022. Rape, murder of four teen girls in Austin yogurt shop remains unsolved 31 years later. December 12. Accessed October 23, 2025. https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Austin-yogurt-shop-killings-17648880.php. Quin, Leah. 2000. "Video could damage yogurt shop case." Austin American-Statesman, May 31: 1. Rivera, Dylan. 1999. "'A decent kid' with a new family and a job." Austin American-Statesman, October 7: 8. Stanley, Dick. 1991. "Robbery may be motive in teens' slayings." Austin American-Statesman, December 8: 1. Vine, Katy. 2025. "How police finally solved Austin's most notorious cold case." Texas Monthly, October 3. Ward, Pamela. 1991. "Classmates try to cope with slayings." Austin American-Statesman, December 10: 1. Wilson, Janet. 1999. "For families, excruciating memories reawakened." Austin American-Statesman, October 7: 1.

Cowritten by Alaina Urquhart, Ash Kelley & Dave White (Since 10/2022) Produced & Edited by Mikie Sirois (Since 2023) Research by Dave White (Since 10/2022), Alaina Urquhart & Ash Kelley Listener Correspondence & Collaboration by Debra Lally Listener Tale Video Edited by Aidan McElman (Since 6/2025) Listener Tale Theme Music licensed from https://www.purple-planet.com Main Theme: Matti Paalanen — Trick or Treat — Provided by Jamendo Ad Music: Title: Artist: BlueJay Studio — Spooky Waltz — Provided by Jamendo

Brief Summary

The yogurt shop murders case is solved after decades, identifying Robert Eugene Brashers as the killer of four teenage girls in Austin, Texas.

Key points

David Bowie the Elf. Elena shares a whimsical story about her kids' elf on the shelf named David Bowie.
Yogurt Shop Murders. The hosts dive into the chilling details of a mass killing at a yogurt shop.
The Yogurt Shop Murders. Four teenage girls were murdered in a yogurt shop, shocking the Austin community.
Confession Gone Wrong. A teenage girl falsely confessed to the murders, raising further complications for investigators.
Community Support for Victims. The Austin community rallies to keep the victims' memories alive with various initiatives.
The Long Wait for Justice. After a series of false leads, the case remains unsolved for over seven years.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

I just love, 'Hey, David.'.

Elena shares a cute moment with her kids and their elf.

6:06WatchDec 14, 2025

Tension

85/ 100High tension

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