Elisa Lam /// Part 2 /// 90 | Forensic Files

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[Music] crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of Alisa [Music] lamb
[Music] look at this this is newly released video showing a missing Canadian tourist
a young woman she seems to be acting in a bizarre way pushing several buttons on
the elevator is all going down in a hotel in downtown LA her name is Alisa lamb she's 21 years old she disappeared
2 weeks ago NBC 4's Gordon toasu live downtown right now with some new details in this case
Gordon well Colleen we spoke a short time ago with the detective from the lapd's elite Robbery Homicide division
he wants everyone to see this surveillance video shot here at the Cecil Hotel it shows Alisa lamp getting
into one of the hotel's elevators believed to be the last images of her before she
disappeared the video captured Alisa Lamb on the morning of February 1st 8:30 a.m. the day she was supposed to check
out of the Cecil Hotel the day before January 31st was the last time her family in Canada had heard from her this
is again totally out of character for her not to be in daily contact with her family but then the video takes a
strange turn she punches all of the buttons on the control panel then Waits she steps in and out several times she
even appears to be gesturing in the hallway although it's not clear if someone is there or not do you believe
she's interacting with another person I don't know I don't know know at this point whether she she is or not I think
it's fair to say that that her behavior appears to be a little bit abnormal but could the behavior have something to do
with her disappearance it's now been 2 weeks since anyone has seen or heard from Alisa lamb was known to suffer from
mild depression and was traveling alone on a trip from her native Canada lapd's Elite Robbery Homicide section is on the
case placing fires throughout this newly gentrified downtown LA neighborhood hoping the video will shed some light it
is the last images that we have of her know her presence in the hotel 2 and 1/2 minutes into the video lamb steps out of
the elevator one last time 30 seconds later the door closes that she's never seen
[Music] again January 28th 2013 21-year-old Alisa lamb checks into the Cecil Hotel
downtown Los Angeles California she is traveling by herself she is from British Columbia Canada she had been in contact
with her family daily during her West Coast tour and on January 31st the communication stopped the following day
Alisa lamb was due to check out of the Cecil Hotel she does not and she's not heard from again she is
last seen on the hotel surveillance footage behaving strangely in the elevator the footage is timestamped 8:31
a.m. February 1st by now Captain it's been over 4 years since the very strange death of Alisa at the Cecil Hotel mhm
yesterday we viewed the video footage and I'm sure by now most the world has seen the video yesterday we gave our
thoughts as we watched it here in the garage if you haven't haven't seen that footage it's up on our website now at
true Crim garage.com and we got a lot to get to today but I really wanted to start off by going through something
very interesting we wanted to get to an expert's opinion on this video footage so this is Dr Jack Brown he's an expert
on body language this is from his website body language success and emotional intelligence he has studied
Alisa's movements in and around the elev and he's going to clue Us in on what he
believes she is feeling and what she is doing at the time and this is such a difficult case because there's so much
folklore kind of surrounding this and so uh today let's just try to focus on on the evidence that we know and we'll
start off with this expert opinion with Dr Jack Brown so at the start of the video when Alisa initially enters the
elevator he states that she is not in fear in his opinion her wide arm swing and her relaxed and fluid walk indicate
she is relaxed and thus not feeling urgency after pushing multiple buttons which she performs in two sessions Alisa
lamb moves to the back left corner of the elevator he States her arms at her sides and her feet positions are neutral
relaxed and does not indicate fear shortly therea she looks quickly out of the elevator she then retreats to the
left wall of the elevator and then moves to the left front corner her hands adopt
the Fig Leaf configuration and her feet are close together this is consistent with anxiety or lower confidence beta
emotional tone this body language does not by itself indicate fear can you explain fig Leaf configuration yes I
wasn't sure what he meant by that either so I had to dive into his website a bit
but what that basically means is that you're standing up upright with your hands in front of your body fingers
interlocked or at least hands hands together at your waist uh this is a common stance or display of body
language you would see this typically like somebody standing at a funeral or religious service maybe a wedding uh it
would be best described as relaxed but attentive while I'm picking up what he's putting down so far next we see Miss
lamb jump out of the elevator uh this is the quick two-step maneuver and he says
this has a playful quality to it okay so now we're at the point where she is still out of the elevator for a second
or two and then miss Lamb's feet splay wide while her hands are still in a fig Leaf nonverbal or close to it stance
this wide stance signifies greater confidence and is not consistent with fear thus these two non-verbal signs
simultaneously convey a level of emotional dissonance yeah in this Next Movement Jack Brown claims that this is
the most important movement of the whole series yeah she's still out of the elevator and he says for about 16
seconds miss Lamb displays an elbows out later laterally sorry with armpit exposed and behind the head hair which
is a preining display this was at least for some time performed bilaterally the movement as she reaches up to begin this
extended PR was fluid slow and deliberate which is very important he says this display cluster context is a
strong and highly reliable indicator of sexual interest the person of her interest is either present outside of
the elevator or she is actively thinking about this person wow that's pretty that's pretty interesting now we can see
both hands and arms retract in from her extended preing sexual display as miss Lamb turns to go back into the elevator
mhm miss Lamb steadies herself as she walks back into the elevator this coupled with her slow walk suggests
either light headed symptoms vertigo or a relative emotional extreme this elbow forward bilateral
hair adjustment behind the ears is a nonverbal sign of Miss lamb dialing up her Alpha this map map stand for
manipulator adapter or pacifier indicates that she is trying to be more assertive or courageous M this is in
distinction to the sexual display previously noted her elbows are not pointed out laterally but held closer to
her body although the resolution of the video is low we can see that miss Lamb is smiling although it may not be a true
sincere smile it is at least at least a fair social smile yeah I I don't know if
I agree with that I didn't see a smile even if it was a small social smile yeah I I agree with you I don't recall seeing
a smile either um at this point her right- hand gestures in an illustrator with a fingertip only touching her right
chest this hand illustrator suggests a lower sincerity and or higher level of anxiety in this moment a series of
Fairly dramatic non-verbal illustrators and Maps takes place later in this video
this may be part of the body language of the conversation taking place with someone who is out of our view or it may
be a sort of rehearsal for an anticipated upcoming conversation or interaction right or as many have
speculated is possibly due to narcotics Although our view and resolution is limited this does not have the
non-verbal signature of fear yeah and and again that's something I think it's so quick to say narcotics when she does
have a history of mental illness and I think it's kind of uh not the most intelligent thing to say oh well
possibly narcotics when it's like she's possibly having a mental breakdown and she Poss possibly is manic and those
would have similar symptoms so I think you know going to narcotics is kind of kind of silly you you could almost
include the the manic thing along with the narcotic statement there well one I think what he's saying as a doctor he's
saying well as some speculated mhm well you're a doctor do a little research on the fact that she's bipolar and I just
think it's kind of insensitive I'm saying yeah I see what you're saying I think he his he's drawing these
conclusions in observations just strictly off of what he's seeing on the video well no because he just said as
some people speculated narcotics mhm this movement almost looks as if she's playing a game of charades then we see
Miss Lamb's right foot goes up on her toes she does this several times this body language pattern indicates a
significant level of excitement and optimism it is also common with joy at the very end of the video Alisa's elbow
briefly elevates up and out laterally again in a shorter repeat of the sexual interest preing nonverbal as previously
discussed Dr Jack Brown's conclusion is as follow follows Elisa lamb is playing a game of hide and seek or something
similar in this video and although at times she displays some anxiety there is no indication of fear there is
definitely an element of play present here it is of course also possible that narcotics are influencing her behavior
of particular importance is she is putting herself on sexual display while what is seen here may have no connection
with her demise if the events in this video occurred just before her disappearance it is it strongly suggests
that the person to whom she is attracted may have knowledge of contributed to or
be responsible for her death okay a couple things in there a couple things that uh Dr Jack Brown is talking about
that I find very interesting uh first he's hinting to the the idea that you know she's trying to be sexual towards
somebody or possibly just thinking about somebody sexual uh if we go with this theory if we buy what he's saying then
it's probably more likely that there was somebody there with her yeah he's he's basically saying there's a there's a
5050 shot that that this person would either be there's always a 50/50 shot sometimes sometimes it's more lower than
that but what he's saying is that that she's either interacting with somebody that she is sexually attracted to or she
is thinking about about that person which really doesn't get us anywhere right and like we said I mean the
there'd be a lot of uh questions answered if we had footage of the lobby mhm yeah if we had more security footage
if we had footage of the hallway we'd be in good shape a lot a lot of the listeners were kind of speculating that
look if there if there was somebody that she was talking to that chances are it would be somebody that would know where
the cameras are or who would know that the C which cameras weren't working implying
that it was a hotel guest or not not a hotel hotel employee right and so the couple possibilities here is you
know she didn't go to LA with a boyfriend so it would either be somebody that she met at the hotel or met in LA
or somebody that worked at the hotel uh you know as their moving rooms did she strike up a conversation and then strike
up a relationship with somebody that worked at the the hotel that's a possibility the other thing that you
kind of read about is that she had this blog and that she actually met somebody through the blog and so when she went to
her little West Coast tour MH she wasn't going to go to La but she actually went
to LA to meet somebody that she met through her blog but from everything that that we've seen uh prior to her
leaving for this trip and it appears that she was intending to hit three or four different cities in California
there was one city that was of question but it was not Los Angeles that seems to
me to to be like a predetermined destination uh maybe even a big part of the trip because we know she's been here
by at this point for several days right which which I get and I I don't you don't have to buy that the LA was a
second thought to believe that she was meeting somebody from the internet basically right but her having been
there for a few days does lead to the question did did she meet somebody did she buddy up with somebody that worked
at the hotel I mean there was certainly enough time for something like that to transpire mhm so in regards to Jack
Brown Dr Jack Brown's assessment I do I found it very interesting I there were some things in there that he pointed
towards that I wouldn't have known or picked up on um the interesting part of course being that if if this video was
happening right before she disappeared then his thoughts would be maybe somebody that she knew of had something
to do with that the the thing is though I don't see I I I just don't see her interacting with anybody it doesn't
really appear to me at any point I just don't get that vibe that that she's that
she's communicating with somebody in the hallway that we cannot see I I just don't get it how about you I don't I
don't see it yeah I mean I think initially it doesn't look like she's with anybody she doesn't turn around to
like check to see if somebody's going to enter the the elevator with her mhm um there's so much you know probably about
a minute and a half of motions and movements where she's clearly by herself right and then there's some weird stuff
when she steps out of the elevator is she talking to somebody out there possibly is she talking to herself out
there possibly right you know I don't think that my my gut feeling is that she is not with somebody and I'm with you on
that and I'll tell you why this is my thought on it is that yes her her movements outside of the elevator are
strange and it she does appear to be kind of talking with her hands at points but the problem is her movements inside
of the elevator when she's not talking to anybody are just as strange so that's why I don't really put a whole lot of
weight into what she's doing outside of the elevator I kind of chalk it up to the same thing the other thing that Jack
Brown talks about a little bit is that he thinks that she's playing some kind of game like hide and seek yeah and we
kind of talked about that like maybe playing a game of tag but you're using the elevator
uh a big rumor or a big I guess folklore of this case or with Alisa's case is the
elevator game which yeah or ritual I think it's been refer like elevator ritual game or something I will not be
acting this out on YouTube for anybody because I don't want to end up in a in another dimension I have things to do
this weekend in basketball basically this is like Creepy Pasta type stuff yeah uh it started on a Korean website
right you get it onto an elevator there's a sequence that you push you go to different floors and uh and but
there's a sequence to it right and it's not just you push all the buttons and then you go up every floor you there's a
sequence and every as you're moving through the different floors then eventually a lady gets on with you and
then you're going to go to the fifth floor and that's going to take you to a different dimension now once you go into
that different dimension it's just you well you have to start the game off a ritual off by yourself that's part of
the whole creepy part and then yeah this woman that you could bump into along the
way if you follow the sequence right she's not supposed to be human so you don't talk to her because she could
really mess up your trip you end up at the final floor now you're by yourself and apparently you're in that different
dimension or different world right so now you're in this hotel by yourself and if you don't do the proper steps to
basically fall asleep and then wake up back into this world mhm uh bad things could happen so a lot of people think oh
well this is what happens and it's only because we have surveillance footage of her doing some strange stuff on the
elevator here's the problem with all that she gets in the elevator and at some point pushes everything she at no
point does she push like any odd sequence that I that I'm aware of well in in and the thing is you said
something about falling asleep and waking back up I I think there's you know many different versions of this
possible ritual um as there is with any of these type of you know stand in the bathroom Close turn off all the lights
and stay in the mirror and yeah say Bloody Mary and different things blah blah blah can happen if you do it this
way or that way uh the the way I heard it was that you have to once you're in this different dimension you have to try
to make your way back to the same elevator and follow a different sequence to end up back into this World okay okay
so um but you're right she doesn't go anywhere in the elevator she goes into the elevator pushes all these buttons
does not end up going anywhere and even even if one thinks that you know uh if I
push okay I need to go to let's say I need to go to 24 6 and 8 mhm so I'll just get in the elevator and push 2 4 6
and 8 well the elevator is going to take you to those in that order it's not going to go if you need to go 26 48 it's
not going to take you in the order that you press them it's going to take you in
the order as it's most convenient it's like a bus stop that's the same way that the elevator works right well I think
your analogy is kind of weird cuz you you went up and the elevator would take you 2 4 6 and then eight but if it jumps
around like you have to go to the third floor and then you got to go back down to the second floor you got to hit three
right up to three and then hit two so you can come back down so that's I think the point you're trying to make but if
this was what she was trying to play this is like you know a very failed attempt and this
and this is like when your buddy in fifth grade says you know hey it's bloody mary time and so you you both
sneak out so you can you got to go to the bathroom you got to turn off the lights and to say Bloody
Mary this is as if she never even turned off the lights so if she was trying to play some you know elevator ritual game
she she messed it up right from the beginning she wasn't even riding on the elevator so I I think that's again just
some of this folklore which you know does make the story more interesting but I I don't think there's any weight to it
well let's go to February 19th of 2013 so at approximately 8:30 a.m. this is after several complaints about water
pressure the water pressure was very low a lot of people weren't able to get you
know proper pressure in their showers and there was also complaints about the tap water as well now mind you some of
these complaints were coming in before the morning of February 19th but anyway it's around 8:30 or so that morning that
the hotel is going to go and investigate and try to troubleshoot the water problem later that morning a hotel
worker he's a maintenance man he discovers the body of Alisa lamb and quickly calls the fire department
they're called in around 10:00 a.m. that morning now I'm going to describe the scene
and the state of the body when found okay and soon after that we will be get we'll get into the autopsy a bit so as
the captain often suggests and as I often fail to do there's that warning that uh I'm supposed to throw out there
if you got your morning coffee with donuts and if you don't like donuts well then you're a psychopath uh but put down
your coffee put down your donuts and go ahead we're ready for you all right okay
so I'll try to go through this as quickly but succinctly as possible um so the hotel has 600 rooms right it has 14
floors it's listed as 15 stories high this basically due to the large Lobby or ground level on top of the building
located near the center of the rooftop there are four large water supply tanks that are intended to supply water feed
water to the building you know things including showers drinking water basically all of the water supply so
these are are pretty large tanks mhm each of the tanks at the Cecil hotel are 1,000
gallon water tanks they are all grouped together on a platform which is about 3 to 3 and 1/2t off of the rooftop each
tank is 8 foot tall which is pretty tall that's well that's top that's to the top
of the cylinder at the top of each there is a domed lid or a top with a hatch to
access each tank the tanks are 4T wide the hatch on top of each tank is a square and it's 16 in wide 16 in squared
all right so let me uh pull out this tape measure you have a you just keep that right next to the computer well is
it is a garage oh yeah so 16 by 16 it's about the size of a trash cam lid like a
fairly large boxed trash Canam lid yeah and I probably could fit through that yeah there's been a lot of speculation
of who or how someone could fit through there that's 16 by 16 you and I are both
considerably bigger than Alisa lamb yeah I would just if anybody thinks that that's impossible I would just recommend
to pull out a tape measure or look at a trash can and just ask yourself could you fit through that and I'm a pretty
Burly guy and I think I could fit through that pretty easily now the maintenance man using a l lad now this
ladder is not a fix to the tanks um none of the tanks have their own ladder this
is just your pretty standard household ladder uh leaning up against the tank he he's going to well probably propped up
against the tank would be a better description the maintenance man found Alisa Lamb's body in the
northeasternmost tank floating face up at the time of the discovery the tank was estim estimated to be about half to
3/4 full author ities worked for about 6 hours to remove the body from the tank yeah and which a lot of the speculation
here is that if it took them 6 hours to remove the body that you know it would take her 6 hours to get in not true
right because the body is going to swell and I know that's gross yeah and it also
involves how they remove the body so during this time there are several agencies involved we had the LAPD of
course we had the Los Angeles Fire Department the Los Angeles coroner's office as well as an urban search and
rescue team now the urban search and rescue team was brought in for their expertise because they have you know we
have a body that's probably a Mess by now and we have to remove it from this large water tank that is hard to access
right so the urban search and rescue team helped and assisted the fire department to devise and execute a plan
that would remove the body and preserve the remains and evidence at the same time a couple of things regarding the
building before we get to the coronor's findings well well let's get right to that right after this quick beer
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go through a couple things regarding the building before we get to the corers findings the Cecil hotel's rooftop is
secured meaning the doors that lead to the rooftop are equipped with a lock and alarm the Cecil's standard operating
practice is that these doors are to be locked at all times now that does not mean that they are actually locked at
all times but they are supposed to be the hotel rooftop is accessible by using the fire escape I've looked at several
photos of the rooftop some taking taken on the day her body was found in those pictures there are clearly at least two
fire escape ladders leading to the rooftop right I'm guessing by the layout of the building that at minimum there
are three or more of those ladders with the emphasis on or more the placement and number of ladders is key when you
need to create a good flow for these for escape procedures right so basically what you're saying is that there she
would have access to these there's probably more of these often times Architects will use basic symmetry for
ladder and door placement uh this will allow for maximum occupancy to successfully evacuate the building um
it's a simple way to maintain a good flow of persons fleeing from the building and to avoid bottlenecking uh
so I say the number of ladders is more likely more because that many of that many rooms they got 600 rooms three
ladders is not a lot it's more likely more yeah yeah it's more likely higher okay thank you yeah so so anyways the
point is that there's a bunch of ladders and should have access to it correct now
let's talk about those hatches on the Dome tops of each water tank the 16x 16 in hatches because these things have
been argued debated and often misreported the hatches were not locked I know many people have tried to say
that they were locked but I can tell you 100% they were not locked and why is that because they did not have locks on
them so following the death of their daughter Alisa's parents sued the Cecil hotel in a press Rel release pertaining
to that lawsuit it is announced that since the death of Alisa lamb the hotel has increased safety precautions by
adding BLS to all four of the water tank hatches again with this case there's so
much speculation there's so much folklore a lot of people that covered this case early after the initial events
like a year after the events you know this was not common known knowledge right so a lot of stuff that you start
looking up if it was three or four years ago they're they're going to say well maybe the hatches were locked or maybe
they weren't but we know because of this lawsuit that there was no lock on there
so all she would have to do is have access to the rooftop which she did and Through the Fire escapes and she would
have to have access to a ladder which was probably up there because of Maintenance right and then she would
have to be able to fit through a 16in x 16in hole Yeah and well let's touch on that ladder real quick and and well
let's talk touch on this little flap there's a little flap so when people talk about you know would she have the
ability to push up this tank so she could jump in she doesn't have to push up lift up the hatch that's on top of
the tank the hatch is not heavy no and it's actually you know I've heard people speculate that it could weigh 30 or 40
pounds um this thing's 16 by 16 and and fairly old and it's actually listed in the autopsy report that the hatches
would easily open right but let me give you this little analogy if you take a tire like tire flip crossfitters will
flip tires you you might have a 450 lb tire and you might be able to flip that can you deadlift 450 lbs probably not
but because of the axis you're able to flip the tire so to open up a 30 to 40 lb hatch it's not thir you're not just
taking 30 or 40 lbs and lifting it off the ground you're just flipping it over right so it' be a lot less weight and
could could she fit through the hatch definitely absolutely on to the coroner's findings very early in the
external examination it is quickly noted that wrist scars are absent um this of course being a very obvious sign that
one has attempted suicide at some point before they had died Alisa had none of these scarring this pointing to the fact
that she had never attempted that form of suicide before and also backing up what the family had reported to
authorities so I you know I imagine this is recorded very early in the external external examination because the police
had seen they had communication with the family early on in her disappearance right the police are informed of the
following that Alisa was taking four prescription medications for depression and bipolar disorder and as far as the
family knew Alisa had no suicidal thoughts or known attempts yeah and I'm just going to bring up her blog cuz her
blog gets brought up a lot and I'm not super familiar with Tumblr but I actually went to her blog and took a
look around uh she posts a lot of you know kind of maybe maybe sad quotes but a lot of the stuff that she's posting I
wouldn't consider sad or depressed uh and some of the the funniest stuff that she posts uh and I'm kind of late to the
game is uh parks and wreck and she has a lot of these little uh scenes from Parks
and wreck that she posts um which kind of you know it was definitely sad you know anytime we're diving into this case
you start seeing similarities between you and somebody in the case uh and you know to know that I mean there's a lot
of posts about a lot of different things um some people also said that there was
posts about her talking about trying to get off her medication I I looked around
I could not find those if I would be interested to look at those posts I couldn't find those it was mostly what I
found was pictures and quotes and um a lot of pretty you know kind of artistic things right but as far as like you know
going which a lot of the artistics stuff I connected with but then those Parks and Rec stuff it it made the case even
sadder just because you know you have this connection with this person that oh this person liked some of the stuff that
I did and she was struggling with some of the the issues that I've dealt with uh so you get that connection based but
I I don't you know so when they said there's no suicide attempts that they know of that they know of yeah and that
doesn't mean that it couldn't have been a suicide attempt right you can't watch somebody 247 right um now the autop the
autopsy lists Alisa as weighing 121 PBS and she is 5' 6 in tall now I I simply mentioned that just so everyone can do a
mental comparison taking into account her size in regards to the size of those tanks and the hatches right during the
autopsy fingernail hair and sexual assault evidence kits were collected MH here is a summary of the coroner's
findings Alisa lamb died as a result of drowning they saw no sign of trauma toxicology studies did not show drug or
alcohol intoxication checking for her prescribed meds in her system it basically states
that toxicology studies were performed to check for these but the quantitation in the blood was not performed due to to
a limit limited sample right so very little blood left in the body well and the one of the problems with this whole
examination is going to be that she was submersed in water for weeks correct the
police investigation showed no signs of Foul Play no one could find evidence to support intent to harm oneself manner of
death is considered an accident all right so they consider this accidental drowning yeah some some here's some more
descriptive things here the body was in a state of moderate decomposition with Greening that was found this is typical
of seeing what we would see having a body that would sit in water for this length of time okay there is marbling on
parts of the legs the head is bloated with bulging eyes parts of the skin you really should have gave like another
warning to to this is like a long coffee break for people yeah I know you but I'm
just saying you should have you know that's a lot to take in parts of the skin exhibit pulling and they there was
marked wrinkling of the Palms fingers soles and feet and Toes there have been many reports that portions of the body
displayed de gloving this is simply a false rumor uh and probably to add more Gore to the mystery but it didn't happen
right and the coordinator also found that the hyoid bone and the L necks were both intact yes this pointing towards
that she wasn't strangled before being thrown into the tank it always baffles me cuz people that have this you know
you you'll hear somebody talking about this case and they'll start saying well it was impossible that she would have
been able to get up there it was 8 ft in the air and then this giant lid that you
have to lift was so heavy it would be impossible and those same people then also try to
make you believe that she was murdered right so it's impossible for this little lady to get up there and get into these
tanks but it's more likely that a guy would be able to kill her and carry her up there and then push her
in that that always baffled me why people's head go that way here's what I can say and we'll we'll go through this
a little bit later but I can honestly say I I could have gotten to that tank if I wanted to if for some reason I
wanted to get in that tank I could do it it would prove it well but what I can tell you is if I wanted to carry a
person up there and not even a person of her size if you took a person half her size right would be very difficult for
me to do mhm yeah but I mean also you probably should also do some more push-ups hey I do cardio hit the gym
twice a week uh in the stomach they found scant red fluid um now portions of tablets or capsules could not be
discerned in the stomach meaning basically they didn't find they're looking for evidence of the medication
that she was taking at the time they did not find that in the stomach right now the body when it was found it was not
clothed uh that seems to be of no mystery to people who have really looked into this case but another item of big
importance in my opinion is Alisa's clothing so this is another topic that has been debated and disagreed on they
did find her clothes they they found them absolutely 100% where did they find these clothes at though they found them
in the tank with her so these are the exact same clothes that she was last seen wearing in the elevator footage the
clothes were found in the tank with her as as well as her sandals were in there as well right but they didn't find the
clothes on her body correct the body was nuded the clothing was in the tank with
her which to me I mean just initially hearing that I go towards Foul Play yeah I mean I can see that because if you're
going to jump in a tank for whatever reason why would you go in with your clothes um I mean I could see jumping
into the tank with your clothes on but why would you take them off and then also bring them with you well here's my
opinion and this is going to be pretty dark so I apologize in advance another warning if put down your damn donut
regardless of how we'll get into how we think she got into the tank but regardless of how she got into the tank
my guess is that she was probably clothed when she went into the tank my thought is because of the height and the
distance between her height and the the top of this tank if the tank was more full then
unfortunately if she was awake and alive when she was thrown in there she was probably in that tank for a decent
amount of time before she EXP fired right and what you would have to do is tread water and work your way up to the
top where you could breathe air right therefore soing wet clothes are going to weigh her down as she gets tired inside
the tank so you would you would want to shed those clothes to try to maintain your endurance mhm that that that makes
a lot of sense so inside and this is a little bit of a mystery here to me but the other items that they found in the
tank were her watch and a hotel key card it's listed that these items were found
amongst her clothing so I'm guessing maybe these items were in the pockets of the clothing but I can't absolutely say
for certain right but if you wash your clothes you know then normally in the washer when you're taking the clothes
from the washer to the dryer you'll find you know a lighter or your your your wallet if you left it in your pants
pocket now in the end the clothing was kept by the Corner's office the watch and the key card were given to the Los
Angeles police department and they were given to them the night that she was brought in the night that she was found
probably so they could go back there and do some type of investigation um the clothing contained
a sand likee particulate okay okay and now this is where a lot of people point out that this is evidence that she might
have been kept elsewhere before she was placed in the tank that this is debris that got on her somehow and then she was
placed in the tank I'm going to offer my opinion here and I'm going to back it up
a little bit what I think that those items are they're basically described as whitish little Flex of probably like
mineral or or metal um okay so I think that those those that debris or the sand-like particulates
came from within the tank that they they collected on the clothing while the clothing was in the tank and I here's my
kind of evidence of that well I mean it's logical yes there's some logic there yes and these are very old tanks
and one thing that anybody could do at their house these tanks basically operate the same way as we have these
little water tanks in our homes as well they're called toilets um basically the back of your toilet operates the same
way it brings in fresh water it stores it for a period of time then it supplies it to something else right anybody if
you take the lid off the back of your toilet and you you stick your hand down in there and you move your hand you well
but you will see things that don't appear to be inside there but you will see them all of a sudden float in there
these are just things that over time erode or or create these little flexs or debris in that inside that water tank
right I just I just had this funny image of you playing around in your toilet yes
I did that for hours last night to back up that back my little Theory and I've and we put it on
YouTube no no um so that is the Coroner's findings all of this pointing toward a an accidental death they don't
believe that she tried to kill herself they also don't find any evidence of Foul Play or anybody else being involved
in this accident right and it seems like all the evidence points to their findings that this was an accidental
drowning yeah and this was not some kind of suicide or anything like that and they say accidental uh accidental death
with mental illness correct you know which makes some sense cuz there's some history there uh but you were talking
earlier and I think I cut you off about the ladder yeah so so you know looking at the body as far as evidence It All
Points towards that accidental death but then people would argue well how did she
get in the tank it because this is 8T tall yeah you know we've look it's definitive in my mind that if I can fit
through 16 in x 16 in cuz I measured it out with my T tape measure then the problem becomes how does this you know
small individual get 8 ft up in the air to get to the latch mhm well I pointed out her height as well as her weight to
show and anybody that's seen pictures of her she she's a thin slender person she
appears to be in good physical health um and I I don't think she would have that
heart of a time because the argument is well we've seen pictures of the fire firemen standing around on the rooftop
and those tanks look gigantic compared to them right well we need to keep in mind that keep keep in mind the layout
of that rooftop so basically these are yes they're 8ft tall tanks which doesn't seem gigantic however they are on a
platform which is about 3 and 1/2 ft above the top of the rooftop right so you're looking at 11 ft and then on top
of that that platform they're also standing on blocks which are probably a foot tall okay so 12T we're now at 12T
pry tall that's pretty tall that's pretty tough you're going to need a ladder the issue here though is that
platform that's 3 and 1/2 ft well there's stairs that go up to that platform so now you've you've already
conquered that 3 and 1/2 ft right so now you're just dealing with about 9t or so
well we talked about there being well you could have stopped me from adding the first time we talked about the the
ladder situation now if you look at pictures from the day that she was found the ladder that is used by the fire
department mhm is not it does not appear to be a fire department issued ladder this is this ladder looks very old it
almost looks like a wood ladder I would argue that the fire department is not using a wood ladder especially the Los
Angeles Fire Department and this makes some sense because you know and you'd probably know this better than I would
you know with your background in Security Administration maintenance workers if they have to access something often then
they will leave a ladder up there you're exactly right that's exactly what you would do in any of these building
situations because a ladder can be cumbersome to try to move up and down through an elevator or bring up some
stairs right and you know so you have you have ladders that you actually Place throughout the building so you're not
going 10 stories to hunt a ladder you're just going a story or two because you know you have one every so often right
and any maintenance that you'd be doing on the rooftop you'd probably just leave
a ladder on the rooftop now on that rooftop as well remember we talked about that platform that these tanks are
sitting on well underneath that platform it's open so you could store a ladder right underneath that platform and keep
it there and it not be exposed to the elements right and then the big question here is people would say well if she
used a ladder then they would have noticed the ladder well here's the issue is a maintenance worker could have
noticed the ladder mhm and just moved it like why is this out of place and thought that another worker left it
there right I'm going what I'm going to do is put this ladder away because it's out of place and it's not supposed to be
here and weeks went by and probably it you know I C I couldn't tell you what I ate last week okay you know what I mean
so it's like if I did I move a ladder last week I don't know right the other thing though too is if the maintenance
staff Works anything like the the security staff at this hotel there's a good chance that that ladder just sat
there that that a maintenance person put it up there and never removed it and it
was there she found it already in place right and then the other problem becomes
you have a lawsuit against you mhm so then how quick is somebody going to come out and say no I actually found a ladder
against the the tank one day and I moved it yeah you know that because because the latches weren't locked because there
was access to the roof mhm because there was access to a ladder we can assume then it makes them more liable yeah well
and I'll tell you what let's take the ladder out of the situation let's say the ladder is not up there for Alisa to
find there's still another way she could get into those tanks there is a structure on that rooftop that is right
next to the water tanks okay now inside this little structure I'm going to call it a little building um inside that
that's a typical structure you would see on high-rise buildings inside that you're going to have workings there are
actually workings that go from those water tanks into that building that's how close they are right now you're also
going to have things like P and part of the working system of the elevators in there as well so on this little
structure it's actually the rooftop of that is higher than the water tanks okay and there is a ladder that is always
there it's a metal ladder that is connected connected to that structure so at any point someone could climb up
there and actually the water tank that she was found in the hatch the way that the hatch is positioned mhm it's the
closest hatch to the top of that rooftop so meaning she could have climbed up there to a ladder that's always there
and she could have jumped down onto the water tank rather than climbing up to the top of the water tank which is which
has way more logic to it yes you know what I mean it's like you know it would be about a three and 1 half maybe 4ot
drop so we know that she has access to the rooftop right then she's up there she's exploring around whether or not
there's a ladder up there doesn't matter at this because if she attached ladder she
climbs that goes looking around for whatever reason opens up one these hatches MH and maybe Falls in MH or
maybe goes in there for some purpose there's also a chance that a maintenance man left that hatch completely open as
well and that she by looking down upon it in whatever state she was in sees this opening and thinks it's something
that it actually is not right and decides to enter it yeah yeah totally totally possible there I think and now
to play Devil's Advocate yes now somebody but if it's foul play you have access to the rooftop
and now you have to carry the you still have to carry this individual that's 120
lbs you know like a fireman's carry up a ladder and then walk her over um both are likely both are possible it's just
more likely that you know an individual you know any almost any capable individual could climb a ladder
and walk over you know to these these towers yeah but the signs of trauma on her body there are none right and all
the the ladder the structure the water tank all that stuff would create obstacles for this person so if she's
alive and does not want to go where this person's directing her or forcing her to
go there would be a bunch of signs of trauma on her body along the way so what I'm getting at here Captain is that the
only way that she went into that tank without her deciding to go in herself if somebody placed her in there alive that
means that somehow they coaxed her willingly to join them on top of this water tank without you know what I mean
and then to force her into that 16x16 hatch right that too would create trauma you would see you would see gashes or
bangs on the on the arms and probably the legs as well yeah so I mean are we ready for final thoughts yeah I think I
think that we are you know ladies first Lisa Turtle goes first Lisa Turtle goes first so so in my in my opinion um
unfortunately I think that we have a girl we have a woman excuse me that uh that was a very brave person I think she
was dealing with a lot of dark issues and that the the disorder the there were things
out of her control and I say brave because I think she had a lot of bad days captain and I think for someone to
say you know what I'm going to I'm going to be outgoing anyway I'm going to go out into society and try to do my thing
I'm going to go on this trip because I want to I'm not going to let this thing drag me down right I'm going to live my
life no matter what and I so I I think we have a very brave person that unfortunately went to La La Land uh and
I mean Los Angeles and she she finds herself in a in a traumatic episode of this disorder and
she a manic State a manic State and she doesn't really fully know what's going on and she ends up in the tank on her
own I don't think this was a suicide I don't think that there was Foul Play involved I think it was exactly the way
the investigators got it I think it's an accidental death brought on somehow by this disorder right and and those
findings then it it you know becomes a it's a mystery it's a mysterious death but it's technically not true
crime well technically not technically not but any any agency uh that I know of when there's an accidental death it's
actually investigated as a homicide until they can prove otherwise right and you think in this case that they proved
otherwise I think they did yeah exactly all right so uh Zack mois time uh timeout remember when he used to do this
I'm out I'm waiting for you to pull out the giant cell phone it's it's in my back pocket is that a giant cell phone
are you just happy to see me um I think it's the same thing uh we had a listener
the other day and I'm so glad that somebody is was through Instagram if you're not following us on Instagram um
we try to be pretty active and uh I posted something that the show was up Courtney I believe her name was Courtney
I don't know what her handle is maybe that's respectful to toss out her handle but anyway she said uh check out one of
my favorite podcasts one of the shows that got me into podcast uh This American Life they had an episode called
my damn mind yeah which was a rerun from about a year ago but it was it was their
newest episode and what it was was two stories I only listen to the first one but it was of this guy this individual
that was dealing with bipolar okay and uh he was having a manic episode and he he ends up getting shot by the
police and but what he does is he actually remembers the the episode so when he comes to and after they figure
out what's going on um he kind of walks you through this manic episode and in his mind he was like going to he had to
be like a double or like an impersonator for President Obama and he was on this Mission and he ended up like jumping
three stories off of his apartment wow uh and and they proven that he he did this
because all his doors were locked and it would have been impossible so he did this and then he also wrecked his car
and then he so he did all these crazy things because he thought he was on a mission right right and he even like I
think attacked a police officer anyways it's a fascinating fascinating episode and if you're having a hard time you
know getting your head around the fact that somebody could be in this altered state and possibly cause thems to die go
go listen to this episode it's very interesting like I said it's This American Life the episode is my damn
mind um it's it was very fascinating very eye openening and my brain was kind of going to this conclusion anyways like
I think they did their due diligence I think there's a lot of folklore with this and a lot of speculation with this
case and I think the video is super creepy and I think at the end of the day it's super creepy because this is the
last known footage of this beautiful girl's life and it doesn't make any sense right and it's a tragedy that's
what it is very much and the thing is is like I said yesterday this is very important it's very important that we
start talking about this it's very important that we talk about mental health it's very important to be open
and honest I mean to a certain degree you don't have to give out every detail um but by other people knowing what
you're going through and what you're on they can help you yeah you know and there's and everybody has these rough
days and and everybody whether you have a mental illness or not you have these rough days just like we said yesterday
and but it's important to be more open and honest so tragedies like this do not happen and somebody that I feel has a
lot you know that had a lot to offer and look I mean social media is you know all
kind of [ __ ] anyways but I I love people that use social media in positive ways post positive things or use it as
an outlet to you know get rid of some of their bad feelings or negative feelings
and like I said I mean and it might sound super lame to some people but you know it's like I love Seinfeld you love
Seinfeld love it and we connect and we talk a lot about the Seinfeld references we love uh Larry David right uh and
parks and wreck is something I just got into and I'm just finishing the final you know season now welcome to the party
welcome to the party way late um and you see posts like that and you just can identify with this individual and she
was just so young and just starting and who knows what she would have done you know and and that's and at the end of
the day it's very tragic and I think um if we could start wrapping our head around some of these mental health
issues we can start helping each other live Fuller happier lives MH you're absolutely right unfortunately I really
think that this whole tragedy would not have happened had she been traveling with somebody else now I want to be
clear here I'm not faulting her that's not her fault she was just doing a vacation like anybody would want to I
don't fault her parents or family for this either she's a grown woman and this is a woman that was trying to be brave
and trying to be outgoing and do her thing uh where where I do find a little fault and I'm not going to say I don't
wouldn't say legally uh would be with the hotel um and more more so with the employees of this hotel and I think it's
a moral thing that they that they've screwed up here uh I find fault with them because they they clearly these
employees clearly have no problem working at a place that does not really care about security we see this terrible
security system I imagine that there's very little checks that are going on at that time and also the maintenance staff
as well I think that there were things there and I only say this as somebody that's worked in these downtown
buildings for so long is that you I believe you have it's not just a place to show up and collect a paycheck and
they don't pay these people great amounts of money but it's not just a place to show up and collect your check
well I mean let me just you have you I think you have a moral obligation that that accident like this should not
happen I I do believe she placed herself there but I think that there could have
been standard operating procedures that should have been uh should have been executed so that this type of accident
would not have happened because if if we're right the way that this went down a child could have done the same thing
right you know and a child wouldn't have known any better yeah and I and I think
to go on your rant it's but it's about Pride right you know uh people wear these goofy Red Hats and
I and I'm going to get all political here uh because I this is not a political show and never will be a
political show period um but these people wear these funny little hats that say make America great again everybody
can start doing this by one Champion uh awarenesses that need to be Champion like mental health also whatever your
job is I don't care if you work at Starbucks if you're if you work at McDonald's whether you're a podcaster
whatever it is you do mhm take pride and ownership in your work because that's a
reflection of you and this girl should not have you know they did they know that she had this uh these struggles
that she was dealing with no but she had access to the rooftop then she has had easy access to get on top of these water
towers then she had easy access to get inside the water towers and those are all these steps that could have been
prevented if people took pride in their work and took pride in themselves and I'm sure that there are some individuals
at the hotel seaold that did right and and that's the problem when there's 600 rooms you can't you know you and then
even managers you can't you can't hold yourself completely responsible for every little thing but um you know just
you know want you want to make the world a lot better of a place start taking I was going to go into a Michael Jackson
song right there Tak a look at yourself and make no but you're saying you can start this by by starting in your own
backyard on your own Street at your workplace and if everybody does this then we're we're golden baby yeah golden
hey and and you heard at first from Lisa Turtle no but our hearts and our thoughts and prayers go out to her
family they've they've gone through something very tough we wish this would have never happened uh should never have
happened um but It ultimately it's just a tragic accident at the end of the day yeah so uh rest in peace Alisa lamb and
uh I I will probably go back to her blog um today and and take a gander again but
uh we got a recommended reading for the week we do and because uh this story has
ties to the hotel Cecil it only seemed fitting to do so this is a true crime classic The Night Stalker by Philip
Carlo uh decades after Richard Ramirez killed people 13 people and paralyzed Los Angeles R's name is still synonymous
with fear torture and sadistic murder Philip Carlos classic true crime book The nightstalker is based on years of
research and many interviews with the killer himself this all revealing that the nightstalker and his crimes are even
more horrifying than anyone could have imagined so pick up the nightstalker by going to our website true Crim
garage.com we have our recommended page there check everything out that's on there and we have our Amazon Banner you
can pick this up through Amazon yeah and if you haven't been to the website lately uh I just updated it it's
revamped it's revamped it looks a little more modern it looks great website kind
of looked a little uh early 9s band website but now it's a little more modern and you can get anything through
the Amazon Banner like if you can hear that that's my tape measure and uh I got that through Amazon.com and they give us
a little Kickback at no cost to you yeah and for everybody that's been uh checking out my music at Captain fat
hands.com I appreciate it much love to you much love to everybody that's uh sharing on social media the the show and
telling friends and look I I got a message the other day where this guy said I feel a little silly sending you a
message right saying uh your show help me helps me get through my work day that's why we're doing it right that's
why we're doing it that's that's we use podcast to get through our day and now we're just giving some love back to you
and you guys been giving us love so we're now giving you more love this is a Love Fest it is and I'm sitting here
with Captain fat hands himself the hands are getting fatter they're growing they're growing in front of me uh yeah
well my my point was that I just want to say thank you to everybody that's sharing and telling people about the
show and thank you to Nick for all his hard work uh and putting you know helping me put out two shows a week for
the last you know since January I think well thank you Captain all right we will
see everybody back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't
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Elisa Lam /// Part 2 /// 90

TrueCrimeGarage.com (http://www.truecrimegarage.com)

A young pretty student was found drowned in a water tank on a roof of a hotel. Where not one but two notorious serial killers had conducted their business. Just minutes before her death she had been caught talking to someone or something invisible on a hotel security camera. The internet went wild with cries of demon possession and foul play. Of course this sounds like a horror film so it was only fitting that this occurred in Los Angeles. Tonight we discuss the disappearance and mysterious death of Elisa Lam.

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Brief Summary

Alisa Lamb's case is examined, focusing on her last moments, mental health, and the circumstances of her accidental death.

Key points

The Mysterious Disappearance of Alisa Lamb. Alisa Lamb, a 21-year-old Canadian tourist, vanished after behaving strangely in a hotel elevator.
Expert Analysis of Alisa's Behavior. Dr. Jack Brown analyzes Alisa's body language in the elevator footage, suggesting complex emotional states.
The Elevator Game Folklore. Discussion of the creepy 'elevator game' theory related to Alisa's strange behavior before her disappearance.
Alisa's Elevator Ritual Attempt. Discussion on the failed elevator ritual that Alisa attempted, highlighting her actions and their implications.
Discovery of Alisa's Body. A maintenance worker discovers Alisa's body in a water tank, leading to an investigation.
Coroner's Findings. The coroner's report concludes Alisa died from drowning, with no signs of foul play.

Episode highlights

Episode quotes

Her behavior appears to be a little bit abnormal.

Discussing Alisa's strange actions in the elevator.

6:03WatchNov 16, 2023

Tension

60/ 100Some tension

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